[GRLUG] another Raspberry Pi article

Tue Nov 29 14:03:53 EST 2011

Good deal.  I'm going to stay on my
devil's advocate horse for one more
round.

What makes this a particularly good
educational platform?  The low price
is not enough, given that Linux is free,
and can be run alongside an existing
PC running windoz.  The hardware H.264
decoding is attractive to a hobbyist, but of
uncertain educational value, as are the USB
and the LAN connections on the $35 board.

i.e., what would a student do with any
of it that has educational value?  Write
their own USB driver?  I don't think so....

Clearly I only see a niche market for
something like this.  They are used in
industry, which is why the ads for much
more expensive units appear in the
trade magazines.

All said, I might well pick up a couple
if they show up with a case.  I would
use one or more of the 160 and more
GB drives I have, and use it to play
the endless old radio material I've
downloaded from archive.org.  Even
that is a stretch, since I already bought
an FM transmitter so I can do that from
my PC.  The Raspberry would have been
a little cheaper way to do it, but only
because I already have everything else.

Educational value?  Zero.  Convenience?
A wash.  Power savings?  A lot. But I leave
my PC on all the time anyway.

   -- Bob

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 12:54 PM, John Wesorick <john at wesorick.com> wrote:

> The main focus of the Raspberry Pi is in education. They are a charity.
> From their website:
>
> The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a UK registered charity (Registration
> Number 1129409) which exists to promote the study of computer science and
> related topics, especially at school level, and to put the fun back into
> learning computing.
>
> We plan to develop, manufacture and distribute an ultra-low-cost computer,
> for use in teaching computer programming to children. We expect this
> computer to have many other applications both in the developed and the
> developing world.
>
>
> The hobbyist market is just icing. This is not designed for an HTPC, it
> just so happens it MAY work well for one.
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:55 AM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 08:34:09AM -0500, Bob Kline wrote:
>>> > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 8:11 AM, John-Thomas Richards
>>> > > <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:
>>> > >> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:30:26PM -0500, Mike Williams wrote:
>>> > >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/28/raspberry_pi/
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > I want at least one of these critters.
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > From the article, " Users can run Debian, Fedora and ArchLinux
>>> > >> > ARM GNU/Linux distributions on the Pi, although not Ubuntu at
>>> > >> > this
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I am amazed that it can decode 1080p video.  This thing is amazing.
>>> > >> I want one to put next to the television with a large USB drive
>>> > >> attached.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I read somewhere that the $25 price tag (though this article says
>>> > >> $35) is for the board itself.  Even with a case this thing can't be
>>> > >> more than $40 or so.  Even for $50 that's a great price for what it
>>> > >> can do.
>>> > >>
>>> [snip]
>>> > Re $25 and $35, and earlier item here said there are two versions -
>>> > the differences escape me just now.
>>> >
>>> > Just playing devil's advocate, I'll ask where's the beef?  By the time
>>> > you hang enough stuff on the board to do anything with it there won't
>>> > be any cost saving to speak of.  One can get any number of great
>>> > motherboards for under $100 today.
>>> >
>>> > Just asking.....
>>>
>>> As Michael posted, this thing is designed for an HTPC.  It is true that
>>> one can purchase a decent motherboard for under $100, but this thing is
>>> $25 (or $35).  With this as the primary hardware, the *hard drive*
>>> becomes the most expensive component.  One could build the *entire* HTPC
>>> for under $100 (a proper case, a wireless keyboard/mouse combo and an
>>> HDMI cable is all you need—particularly if your movies, etc., are stored
>>> on an existing network server).
>>>
>>>
>>
>> To split hairs a bit, and play the other
>> side for a little while longer,  you'll need
>> the $35 spread to do what you're suggesting,
>> or maybe a wireless connection.
>>
>> As long as you stay in the hobby realm, where
>> you can assume people will put up with a lot,
>> put in endless time on something just out of
>> enjoyment, have the missing parts, do loose
>> accounting, and have a set of somewhat out
>> of the mainstream applications in mind, this
>> can work.  You're suggesting that people
>> might have a server sitting around too, making
>> the applications all that much more specialized.
>> As I mentioned, special purpose
>> Linux boxes in LJ ads, for example, go for
>> $200 to $300 each, for something that to me
>> looks very similar. So in that restricted sense,
>> this thing is a bargain.  But only if you
>> have a use for it.  It won't teach you much
>> about Linux that any other PC can't.  Buy a
>> junker, open it up, and play with the hardware,
>> and that will get to the core of the single
>> board appeal.
>>
>> Big players get things like 100K piece discounts
>> on parts.  Real volume.  Little people buy used
>> stuff, or pay single piece prices.  That's what
>> starts to make things non-economic very quickly.
>> A new hard drive just now might be expensive
>> because of the flooding in Singapore, but will
>> be expensive anyway for the reasons above.
>>
>> I can see the "small is beautiful" appeal of
>> something like this. Apple has long had a
>> brick PC that runs the latest version of
>> its OS, is fanless, and has a DVD unit
>> built in.  Being Apple, it's $600 or so.  And
>> then you need a display, etc.
>>
>> But again, everything from a dedicated
>> app using embedded Linux to Google,
>> which might have a PC farm of a million
>> PCs - they don't say exactly - and uses
>> Linux, indicates a broad range of Linux
>> applications.  The differences have much
>> to do with packaging and prices.
>>
>> What I mostly see here is something
>> compact and fanless, which could meet
>> some needs.  For a hobbyist even the
>> needs are more likely to fringe rather
>> than anything with a broad appeal.
>>
>> I have a few Internet "radios" around.
>> I don't know it for a fact, but they could
>> well be Linux based.  Ethernet or wireless
>> access, a database that is automatically
>> refreshed, and of course digital tuning.
>> Nothing a PC can't do.  But the unit is
>> packaged like a traditional radio.  The
>> power supply and speakers are built in.
>> A radio-like case with a digital display.
>> It's a matter of packaging, convenience,
>> and cosmetics.  One could build
>> something like this, and it would look
>> home made.  Since a PC already does
>> this, where's the educational value in it?
>> For $125, where's the added value in
>> building it yourself?  Or you could consider
>> building your own laptop and wasting a
>> ton of time and money.
>>
>> Hey, I said I was playing the other side.
>> For perspective, I built my first "terminal"
>> from a kit, and wire-wrapped many
>> single board computers over the years.
>> The technology was new then.  Oh, and
>> if wire wrapping makes you scratch your
>> head, you haven't been around long enough.
>>
>>     -- Bob
>>
>>
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