[GRLUG] OFF TOPIC - Speaking of Infrared...

Michael Mol mikemol at gmail.com
Thu Jan 28 22:04:33 EST 2010


Erp. Yeah, ~300mm. I was off by a factor of 1000.

Meanwhile, for people trying to do the math in their heads:

http://www.futilitycloset.com/2010/01/28/c-story/

Once you've figured that out in seconds, figure it out in years, and 
compare long-scale to short-scale.

On 1/28/2010 9:51 PM, Bob Kline wrote:
> Yup.  Light is a radio wave.  The issue
> is whether one can form images, or
> otherwise manipulate the radiation.  e.g.,
> 1THz is about 0.03 cm, which is probably
> in the microwave range, but it can be
> imaged.  And it can go through many
> things.  And since 0.03 cm is much
> smaller than everyday objects, it could
> spot a wiring error in a wall.  Or people
> doing all kinds of things in their houses.
>
> But you won't get a unit from Cyberguys.
> What you can "see" depends on technology,
> which always changes, and what you can
> spend.
>
> //endjob    -- IBM 360 JCL.
>
>     -- Bob
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com
> <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Ah, in that case, I should have directed my response to Ben.  1THz is
>     actually far, far, deeper than even the far-IR stuff I work with.
>     1THz has a wavelength of a few hundred micrometers; My stuff doesn't
>     even get as long as one micrometer.
>
>     It borders on radio waves, which is how it gets its greater
>     penetration capability.
>
>     For a quick comparison:
>
>     100s of nanometers -- visible spectrum, IR
>     ~300 micrometers -- This terahertz tech.
>     ~3cm -- 10GHz ISM band, not used for much, but in the general vicinity
>     of satellite TV.
>     ~6cm -- 5GHz ISM band, commonly used in 802.11a and 802.11n.
>     ~12.5cm -- 2.4GHz ISM band, commonly used in bluetooth, 802.11b,
>     802.11n, most cordless phones, newer R/C car and airplane controllers.
>     ~33cm -- 900MHz ISM band, mostly used for older cordless phones, R/C
>     cars and airplane controllers.
>
>     Below that, you'll find your over-the-air and cable TV channels.
>
>     If you're really worried about see-through-walls EM intrusion, you
>     could conceivably set up a Faraday cage designed to trap the bands
>     you're worried about.
>
>     On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com
>     <mailto:bob.kline at gmail.com>> wrote:
>      > Oh, I understand.  The original question
>      > was what Cyberguys level gadgets could
>      > do in terms of seeing bad wiring inside a
>      > wall.
>      > If cost is no object, one can of course
>      > do more.  A lot more.
>      > Devices operating in the 1THz range
>      > can see people inside their house.
>      > Through walls.  There were discussions
>      > about the legal implications of all this
>      > several years ago.
>      >     -- Bob
>      >
>      > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com
>     <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com>> wrote:
>      >>
>      >> On 1/28/2010 8:48 PM, Bob Kline wrote:
>      >> > How cool was the room?
>      >>
>      >> Thermostat is normally 72F, but that's in another room. I'm in
>     the room
>      >> with the servers, which is usually about five higher.
>      >>
>      >> >
>      >> > You seen to have a short sleve
>      >> > shirt on, but I think I can see the
>      >> > back of a chair,  walls in the the
>      >> > background.  Is it a big room?
>      >>
>      >> I wear short-sleeves year-round, primarily because of the higher
>      >> temperatures in the vicinity of my workstation. That was
>     actually taken
>      >> in Dec of 2007, I think. (The date is off on Flickr, but that's
>     because
>      >> the source is a BMP, and the timestamp was screwed up due to a few
>      >> workstation migrations.)
>      >>
>      >> Room is about 750 ft^2, or about 6000ft^3.
>      >>
>      >> >
>      >> > Jet gets to the fact that because
>      >> > you stand out some the room might
>      >> > be large, and-or cool
>      >>
>      >> I don't think you understand how far-IR temperature monitoring
>     works.
>      >> If you'd like, I can delve into a discussion of microbolometers and
>      >> measurement adjustments stemming from surface emissivity, ambient
>      >> temperature and ambient humidity values.
>      >>
>      >> There's more at work than just the wavelength of quanta, there's
>     also
>      >> intensity of emissions, considerations of atmospheric absorption and
>      >> considerations of ambient temperatures reflecting off of other
>     surfaces.
>      >>
>      >> What it boils down to is that in practical conditions, I can
>     (and do,
>      >> for use cases such as those that that software was written for)
>     measure
>      >> surface temperatures to within 0.01C.
>      >>
>      >> Don't forget I also control the palettization -- the conversion
>     of raw
>      >> temperature numbers to RGB pixels, which goes towards making
>     differences
>      >> "stand out."
>      >>
>      >> >
>      >> >      -- Bob
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Michael Mol
>     <mikemol at gmail.com <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com>
>      >> > <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>      >> >
>      >> >     On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Bob Kline
>     <bob.kline at gmail.com <mailto:bob.kline at gmail.com>
>      >> > <mailto:bob.kline at gmail.com <mailto:bob.kline at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>      >> > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Michael Mol
>     <mikemol at gmail.com <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com>
>      >> > <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com <mailto:mikemol at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>      >> > >>
>      >> > >>
>      >> > >> The chief problem with "darkvision" as it applies to passive
>      >> >     near-IR is
>      >> > >> that there is a lot of ambient near-IR radiation that's not
>      >> >     related to
>      >> > >> warm bodies.
>      >> > >>
>      >> > >> In short, your warm body radiation in the near-IR will be
>     there,
>      >> > but
>      >> > >> largely drowned out by the ambient near-IR radiation.**
>      >> > >
>      >> > > The peak wavelength for a human body
>      >> > > thermal spectrum is 10 microns - in the so
>      >> > > called long-wave infrared range.  You shine
>      >> > > if you're standing out in the snow,  but the
>      >> > > human body is not really very hot.  About
>      >> > > the same as your house interior, which is
>      >> > > that temperature, by design. So you don't
>      >> > > stand out much.
>      >> > > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared
>      >> > >     -- Bob
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> >
>     http://www.flickr.com/photos/28208534@N07/3681419505/in/set-72157620862996406/
>      >> >
>      >> >     I don't?
>      >> >
>      >> > What kind of image is this?  i.e., how
>      >> > is it corrected?
>      >> >
>      >> >
>      >> >
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