[GRLUG] OFF TOPIC Electric Car

[Collin Kidder]

Coal to electricity is where the inefficiency is happening. It's 
essentially free to charge a capacitor. You get nearly the same out as 
you put in. That is, other than a few things which steal some charge 
(like equivalent series resistance) capacitors are perfect storage vessels.

So, yes, getting the electricity to you could be inefficient but once 
you get it charging a capacitor isn't inefficient. But, most other 
schemes involving using electricity in some way as well. So they suffer 
the same generation and transmission inefficiency but then add their own 
inefficiency on top.

Ben DeMott wrote:
> Capacitors are very good at storage, any electron based storage medium 
> doesn't necessarily suffer from storage shortcomings.
> They suffer from Loss of Energy in the transfer process (charging).
> Coal to Electricity, to Stored Electricity in a Capacitor has a 
> potential energy loss somewhere around 70%, that's quite a pill to 
> swallow for renewable energy ...
> (and on top of that add transmission loss over an electrical 
> infrastructure, even more painful)
>
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Rick Vargo <rick at vargo.org 
> <mailto:rick at vargo.org>> wrote:
>
>     I guess I shouldn't have assumed that you would already have the
>     property... The $1 a gallon is for planting, growing, fertilizing,
>     etc... They also suggest that you can contract with a farmer for
>     product. This is not as cheap of a method but is still equivalent
>     to the
>     cost of gas...
>
>     Rick
>
>
>     Collin Kidder wrote:
>     > I'll have to check out the site on using alcohol as gas... But
>     if you
>     > get 1700 gallons per acre then you need to spend only $1700 on
>     that acre
>     > including planting, watering, picking, and fermenting if you
>     want $1/g.
>     > That sounds like a tall order for $1700. But, I'm no farmer.
>     >
>     > Rick Vargo wrote:
>     >
>     >> Corn is a terrible bio fuel you can only get about 700 gallons
>     from an
>     >> acre. Sugar cane is the best. Around here, the best thing to
>     grow for a
>     >> bio fuel is probably sugar beats. I think an acre will make
>     about 1700
>     >> gallons of alcohol.
>     >>
>     >> Rick
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Michael Mol wrote:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Collin Kidder
>     <adderd at kkmfg.com <mailto:adderd at kkmfg.com>> wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>> An electric motor can be made darn near 100% efficient. As a
>     bonus
>     >>>> electrical lines are found almost everywhere. It's like a
>     built in gas
>     >>>> station in every building you see. So, I do believe that
>     electric cars
>     >>>> will end up being the way forward.
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>> It remains to be seen how efficiently synthetic hydrocarbon
>     fuels can
>     >>> be made; If those can be made sufficiently efficient, powering
>     cars
>     >>> off the grid won't work.
>     >>>
>     >>> Granted, corn doesn't appear to be getting us off to a good start.
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
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