[GRLUG] grlug Digest, Vol 33, Issue 16

Thu Dec 4 19:46:32 EST 2008

Ouch..  It is about to get really, really hot in this "room"/thread.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:17 PM, <grlug-request at grlug.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (David Pembrook)
>   2. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Michael Mol)
>   3. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Tim Schmidt)
>   4. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Tim Schmidt)
>   5. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Alan J Abma)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:50:46 -0500
> From: David Pembrook <david at pembrook.net>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID: <493850B6.6080208 at pembrook.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> Collin Kidder wrote:
> > Brad De Vries wrote:
> >
> >> Tim, I hate the idea of getting into a big flame war about which
> >> country is best or worst but I do have two questions for you regarding
> >> your post above:
> >>
> >> 1) Are you implying that the US is as bad as China in the area of both
> >> human and corporate rights oppression?
> >> "Certainly China is no human rights champion, but then, neither are we."
> >> "Pot, kettle.  Kettle, pot."
> >>
> >> 2) Have you considered relinquishing your US citizenship and becoming
> >> a citizen of China?
> >>
> >> Brad.
> >>
> >>
> > I don't think that he need imply that we're as bad. The fact that we
> > even register on the radar is bad enough. Our track record is nowhere
> > near spotless. The Patriot act and other highlights have proven that our
> > government is more than willing to step on us. There is no excuse for
> > that. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we're as bad as China. We
> aren't.
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> This could be a long political thread if we don't even try to stay on
> topic. Lets not even go there. I wanted to jump in too but I'm sure
> there is another list or forum somewhere we could have this conversation.
>
> Dave
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:55:33 -0500
> From: "Michael Mol" <mikemol at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID:
>        <f5e00c450812041355q3abc335fodfaf180de9dd3068 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Adam M. Erickson <adam at openfad.com> wrote:
> > News hit Slashdot on Wednesday that China is forcing its Internet
> > cafes to use licensed copies of Red Flag Linux.
>
> Fatal flaw: Red Flag Linux is now a huge target for malware authors.
>
> --
> :wq
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:25:53 -0500
> From: "Tim Schmidt" <timschmidt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID:
>        <2c97fe9d0812041425j7ce3d1e4s5628d3477f2374ef at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Collin Kidder <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> > I don't think that he need imply that we're as bad. The fact that we
> > even register on the radar is bad enough. Our track record is nowhere
> > near spotless. The Patriot act and other highlights have proven that our
> > government is more than willing to step on us. There is no excuse for
> > that. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we're as bad as China. We
> aren't.
>
> Exactly.  It's pointless to debate degrees of 'badness'.  I certainly
> don't intend to.  My point was that one cannot chide China while
> faux-patriotically ignoring our government's technological and
> human-rights related misdeeds (among others).
>
> In other words, it's a systemic _human_ problem.  _Not_ a problem that
> has regional or political boundaries.
>
> Now...  if we want to channel this into a productive discussion...
> I'm firmly of the opinion that the only effective way to fix systemic
> brokenness - fast - is to stick a fat prybar in one of the cracks and
> break the living hell out of it some more.  In other words, the
> quickest way to get the NSA to stop spying on internet traffic would
> be to gain control of the infrastructure in place to do so, and
> proceed to wield it in the most nefarious way imaginable, and make all
> the results public.  Most people simply don't realize they're being
> spied on, and when told, don't realize what that implies.  Events like
> this (fictional one) tend to encourage people to begin caring.
>
> It's a simple extension of the argument for full disclosure of
> security vulnerabilities.
>
> --tim
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:35:08 -0500
> From: "Tim Schmidt" <timschmidt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID:
>        <2c97fe9d0812041435h2fd19908w4f18cc18e081c548 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Brad De Vries <devriesbj at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2) Have you considered relinquishing your US citizenship and becoming
> > a citizen of China?
>
> I've certainly considered relinquishing my US citizenship...  if
> nothing else to legally stop funding our constant warmaking with my
> taxes.
>
> Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any great options.  English
> speaking countries are out, for the aforementioned reasons.  The
> Scandinavian countries appear decent, but it's tough to permanently
> emigrate.  Much of the Caribbean appears OK from a legal standpoint,
> but such tiny countries are in no position to resist intimidation from
> their nearest superpower.  Coupled with single-industry economies,
> rampant poverty, and disastrous weather, and it's not a great
> combination.
>
> Suggestions?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:13:53 -0500
> From: Alan J Abma <ajabma at chartermi.net>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID: <200812041813.53187.ajabma at chartermi.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> My $0.02
> I will stand and fight.
> Free software enthusiasts are at the forefront of making America live up to
> it's promise.
>
> On Thursday 04 December 2008 5:35 pm, Tim Schmidt wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Brad De Vries <devriesbj at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > 2) Have you considered relinquishing your US citizenship and becoming
> > > a citizen of China?
> >
> > I've certainly considered relinquishing my US citizenship...  if
> > nothing else to legally stop funding our constant warmaking with my
> > taxes.
> >
> > Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any great options.  English
> > speaking countries are out, for the aforementioned reasons.  The
> > Scandinavian countries appear decent, but it's tough to permanently
> > emigrate.  Much of the Caribbean appears OK from a legal standpoint,
> > but such tiny countries are in no position to resist intimidation from
> > their nearest superpower.  Coupled with single-industry economies,
> > rampant poverty, and disastrous weather, and it's not a great
> > combination.
> >
> > Suggestions?
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of grlug Digest, Vol 33, Issue 16
> *************************************
>

-- 

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PHT Consulting
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