<div>Ouch.. It is about to get really, really hot in this "room"/thread.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br><br> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:17 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:grlug-request@grlug.org">grlug-request@grlug.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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than "Re: Contents of grlug digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (David Pembrook)<br> 2. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Michael Mol)<br> 3. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Tim Schmidt)<br>
4. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Tim Schmidt)<br> 5. Re: FYI Linux Red Flag News Release (Alan J Abma)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:50:46 -0500<br>
From: David Pembrook <<a href="mailto:david@pembrook.net">david@pembrook.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release<br>To: <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:493850B6.6080208@pembrook.net">493850B6.6080208@pembrook.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed<br><br>Collin Kidder wrote:<br>> Brad De Vries wrote:<br>><br>>> Tim, I hate the idea of getting into a big flame war about which<br>>> country is best or worst but I do have two questions for you regarding<br>
>> your post above:<br>>><br>>> 1) Are you implying that the US is as bad as China in the area of both<br>>> human and corporate rights oppression?<br>>> "Certainly China is no human rights champion, but then, neither are we."<br>
>> "Pot, kettle. Kettle, pot."<br>>><br>>> 2) Have you considered relinquishing your US citizenship and becoming<br>>> a citizen of China?<br>>><br>>> Brad.<br>>><br>>><br>
> I don't think that he need imply that we're as bad. The fact that we<br>> even register on the radar is bad enough. Our track record is nowhere<br>> near spotless. The Patriot act and other highlights have proven that our<br>
> government is more than willing to step on us. There is no excuse for<br>> that. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we're as bad as China. We aren't.<br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> grlug mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>> <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br>
><br>This could be a long political thread if we don't even try to stay on<br>topic. Lets not even go there. I wanted to jump in too but I'm sure<br>there is another list or forum somewhere we could have this conversation.<br>
<br>Dave<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:55:33 -0500<br>From: "Michael Mol" <<a href="mailto:mikemol@gmail.com">mikemol@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release<br>
To: <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:f5e00c450812041355q3abc335fodfaf180de9dd3068@mail.gmail.com">f5e00c450812041355q3abc335fodfaf180de9dd3068@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"<br><br>On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Adam M. Erickson <<a href="mailto:adam@openfad.com">adam@openfad.com</a>> wrote:<br>> News hit Slashdot on Wednesday that China is forcing its Internet<br>
> cafes to use licensed copies of Red Flag Linux.<br><br>Fatal flaw: Red Flag Linux is now a huge target for malware authors.<br><br>--<br>:wq<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:25:53 -0500<br>
From: "Tim Schmidt" <<a href="mailto:timschmidt@gmail.com">timschmidt@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release<br>To: <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:2c97fe9d0812041425j7ce3d1e4s5628d3477f2374ef@mail.gmail.com">2c97fe9d0812041425j7ce3d1e4s5628d3477f2374ef@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"<br><br>
On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Collin Kidder <<a href="mailto:adderd@kkmfg.com">adderd@kkmfg.com</a>> wrote:<br>> I don't think that he need imply that we're as bad. The fact that we<br>> even register on the radar is bad enough. Our track record is nowhere<br>
> near spotless. The Patriot act and other highlights have proven that our<br>> government is more than willing to step on us. There is no excuse for<br>> that. But it doesn't necessarily mean that we're as bad as China. We aren't.<br>
<br>Exactly. It's pointless to debate degrees of 'badness'. I certainly<br>don't intend to. My point was that one cannot chide China while<br>faux-patriotically ignoring our government's technological and<br>
human-rights related misdeeds (among others).<br><br>In other words, it's a systemic _human_ problem. _Not_ a problem that<br>has regional or political boundaries.<br><br>Now... if we want to channel this into a productive discussion...<br>
I'm firmly of the opinion that the only effective way to fix systemic<br>brokenness - fast - is to stick a fat prybar in one of the cracks and<br>break the living hell out of it some more. In other words, the<br>quickest way to get the NSA to stop spying on internet traffic would<br>
be to gain control of the infrastructure in place to do so, and<br>proceed to wield it in the most nefarious way imaginable, and make all<br>the results public. Most people simply don't realize they're being<br>spied on, and when told, don't realize what that implies. Events like<br>
this (fictional one) tend to encourage people to begin caring.<br><br>It's a simple extension of the argument for full disclosure of<br>security vulnerabilities.<br><br>--tim<br><br><br>------------------------------<br>
<br>Message: 4<br>Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:35:08 -0500<br>From: "Tim Schmidt" <<a href="mailto:timschmidt@gmail.com">timschmidt@gmail.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release<br>To: <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>
Message-ID:<br> <<a href="mailto:2c97fe9d0812041435h2fd19908w4f18cc18e081c548@mail.gmail.com">2c97fe9d0812041435h2fd19908w4f18cc18e081c548@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"<br>
<br>On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Brad De Vries <<a href="mailto:devriesbj@gmail.com">devriesbj@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> 2) Have you considered relinquishing your US citizenship and becoming<br>> a citizen of China?<br>
<br>I've certainly considered relinquishing my US citizenship... if<br>nothing else to legally stop funding our constant warmaking with my<br>taxes.<br><br>Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any great options. English<br>
speaking countries are out, for the aforementioned reasons. The<br>Scandinavian countries appear decent, but it's tough to permanently<br>emigrate. Much of the Caribbean appears OK from a legal standpoint,<br>but such tiny countries are in no position to resist intimidation from<br>
their nearest superpower. Coupled with single-industry economies,<br>rampant poverty, and disastrous weather, and it's not a great<br>combination.<br><br>Suggestions?<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>
Message: 5<br>Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 18:13:53 -0500<br>From: Alan J Abma <<a href="mailto:ajabma@chartermi.net">ajabma@chartermi.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [GRLUG] FYI Linux Red Flag News Release<br>To: <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:200812041813.53187.ajabma@chartermi.net">200812041813.53187.ajabma@chartermi.net</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>My $0.02<br>I will stand and fight.<br>
Free software enthusiasts are at the forefront of making America live up to<br>it's promise.<br><br>On Thursday 04 December 2008 5:35 pm, Tim Schmidt wrote:<br>> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Brad De Vries <<a href="mailto:devriesbj@gmail.com">devriesbj@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > 2) Have you considered relinquishing your US citizenship and becoming<br>> > a citizen of China?<br>><br>> I've certainly considered relinquishing my US citizenship... if<br>> nothing else to legally stop funding our constant warmaking with my<br>
> taxes.<br>><br>> Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any great options. English<br>> speaking countries are out, for the aforementioned reasons. The<br>> Scandinavian countries appear decent, but it's tough to permanently<br>
> emigrate. Much of the Caribbean appears OK from a legal standpoint,<br>> but such tiny countries are in no position to resist intimidation from<br>> their nearest superpower. Coupled with single-industry economies,<br>
> rampant poverty, and disastrous weather, and it's not a great<br>> combination.<br>><br>> Suggestions?<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> grlug mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>End of grlug Digest, Vol 33, Issue 16<br>*************************************<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><br>Phillip Hebenstreit<br>PHT Consulting<br>1436 Harding Street N.W.<br>Grand Rapids, MI 49544<br>
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