[GRLUG] pre-installed Linux
peyeps at iserv.net
peyeps at iserv.net
Tue Feb 2 18:19:03 EST 2010
"160GB 2.5" magnetic drives are the sweet spot right now."
It's the largest drive Microsoft will allow vendors to put in a netbook.
If its a bigger drive, they can't load Windows 7 starter. I think it was
HP that would sell a netbook with a bigger drive, but they had to
pre-install Linux, they couldn't use any Windows. I think it has been
discontinued.
You get longer life with a six cell battery.
"I think the concept was a small, lightweight net device that wouldn't
hurt a great deal if lost dropped / stolen. Now "netbook" essentially
means "laptop with small screen and little cost-savings.""
Yes and no.
Three hundred dollars for a 160 gig drive is measurably cheaper than the
seven hundred I spent in 2006 for 1.6 gig dual processor machine, same
memory size, same disk size. Larger screen. Now three hundred seems to
be the sweet spot. Thats about what an iPod touch goes for.
Got the netbook because I wanted something that I could take on vacation,
possibly out of the country, and not sweat too much if it got lost. And
that is what this is.
But!
Tried Ubuntu re-mix. Didn't like it. Found that Ubuntu 9.04 works just
great on this. Have been adding stuff to it left and right. Fifty or
sixty gigs of stuff is a lot of software. Games, development software,
etc.
Regarding mechanical disk drives. I have a pretty good feel about what
to expect when this begins to fail. Flash drives, that's another story.
Have one memory stick that I think is going bad. I don't trust it, and
haven't used it that much. I think they are OK for sneakernet, or other
uses where you don't keep re-writing to them, but have no feel for exactly
how long they will last when being used as a normal disk drive. Years?
I've got some old disk drives over ten years old that still work just fine
and have not lost any data.
"I'd prefer that it be capable of running a mainstream copy of Linux,
which for me could be Puppy or Ubuntu."
As I said, this Acer Aspire one is running Ubuntu 9.04. And that is
faster than the XP that came pre-installed on it. And that was faster
than the Vista machine, same memory, disk and processor in the machine
next to it.
The HP machine I mentioned came pre-installed with Linux. A friend got
one, and wiped the drive and turned it into a hackintosh, then added
Ubuntu 9.04, and is going to add XP. Gets about 9 hours running
hackintosh with the six cell battery.
So the machines are capable.
If you want a simple tablet, Google is talking about Chrome on a tablet.
The iPad has about a netbook size screen, or a little smaller.
" My main gripe is that there is so little product distinction between a
low end laptop and a netbook."
"Small and cheesy, expensive, and just scaled down laptops, not something
rugged and cheap."
Again, it is Microsoft that has been defining the Netbook device.
Well, as for expensive, three hundred or a little less seems to be the
lowest you can go unless you go for something like the AT&T deal, with the
two year contract. As for a scaled down laptop, well, I suppose so. You
can't get much smaller and get a keyboard that is easy to use. On the
other hand, I've gotten so used to this Aspire, that when I switch back to
the Toshiba, it feels like I'm switching to a lugable. So I guess about
the only thing you can say is that a netbook will be a couple hundred
cheaper than a notebook, and much more portable. That is a very
noticeable difference.
The tablet would be cool from the Star Trek perspective. But I really
have no desire to give this netbook up.
Greg
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Pre-installed Linux on laptops (Michael Mol)
> 2. Re: Pre-installed Linux on laptops (Bob Kline)
> 3. Re: Pre-installed Linux on laptops (Michael Mol)
> 4. Re: Pre-installed Linux on laptops (Bob Kline)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:06:10 -0500
> From: Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Pre-installed Linux on laptops
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID: <4B5F4B32.2000109 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> On 1/26/2010 3:00 PM, Bob Kline wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:35 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org
>> <mailto:jtr at jrichards.org>> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 02:20:50PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote:
>> [snip]
>> > The technical details are pretty skimpy.
>> > e.g., how much RAM. IMHO it's better to
>> > get a cheap laptop and just run Puppy
>> > or something. The netbooks look pretty
>> > expensive yet for what you get. A CPU
>> > with no poop, and pretty lousy battery life.
>>
>> It's amazing how these "netbooks" resemble regular laptops from a
>> couple
>> years ago but with a small screen. I think the concept was a small,
>> lightweight net device that wouldn't hurt a great deal if lost /
>> dropped
>> / stolen. Now "netbook" essentially means "laptop with small screen
>> and
>> little cost-savings."
>> --
>> john-thomas
>>
>> I think the last line about covers it.
>> At present, they make little economic
>> sense IMHO.
>
> It really depends on your needs. If all I was going to do was basic web
> browsing with flashblock, mixed in with a little SSH, it'd be fine.
> However, my laptop is also a relay point for my photography, so I need a
> little more oomph.
>
> Intel's NOBi is a neat little device I'd thoroughly enjoy if I didn't
> need to handle photo processing at a con once in a while. Otherwise,
> it'd handle my needs.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:09:27 -0500
> From: Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Pre-installed Linux on laptops
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID:
> <d181b7d71001261209m75600d1an76c58308b9432f34 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/26/2010 2:32 PM, Bob Kline wrote:
>> > Just curious, why a net book at all?
>>
>> Not interested in a net book, really. I'd like a Linux-powered *tablet*
>> device, because I like fast digitization of hand-drawn illustrations.
>> I'd use my smartphone, except the drawable region is way, way too small.
>>
>> > At this time anyway. They all seem
>> > to use the anemic Atom processor,
>> > have limited battery life, tiny screens,
>> > and keyboards for midgets.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I've heard of netbooks with about 8 hours of battery
>> life. It's certainly possible; Remember the original Sony Vaio?
>>
>> Still, I'm not looking for a netbook. I'd like something with an 8.5" x
>> 11" screen. :)
>>
>> >
>> > On top of all of that, they cost like any
>> > machine with relatively custom packaging.
>> > i.e., a lot.
>>
>> Strangely, netbooks can be had for under $300. My current laptop (which
>> was a netbook by the standards of the time...about two years ago) cost
>> $500.
>>
>
> What I find strange is that most of
> them come with 160GB drives now.
> I'd thought the trend would be to
> a few GB of RAM, and maybe 16GB
> of flash. All for fast bootup, and
> ruggedness. For portable use one
> doesn't need a hard drive IMHO. And
> I'm sure they eat up a lot of the cost
> of the devices now.
>
> -- Bob
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>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:16:02 -0500
> From: Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Pre-installed Linux on laptops
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID: <4B5F4D82.8080808 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed
>
> On 1/26/2010 3:09 PM, Bob Kline wrote:
>>
>> What I find strange is that most of
>> them come with 160GB drives now.
>> I'd thought the trend would be to
>> a few GB of RAM, and maybe 16GB
>> of flash. All for fast bootup, and
>> ruggedness. For portable use one
>> doesn't need a hard drive IMHO. And
>> I'm sure they eat up a lot of the cost
>> of the devices now.
>>
>> -- Bob
>
> 160GB 2.5" magnetic drives are the sweet spot right now.
>
> At this point, I expect increasing demand on on flash media will
> actually cause a shortage, rather than drive down manufacturing costs as
> part of economies of scale. IIRC, silicon memory manufactures were
> convicted of antitrust and/or price fixing activities *twice* in the
> last two decades.
>
> Of course, if China follows through on its promise to stop shipping the
> rare earth metals that go into the supermagnets used in magnetic
> spinning disk drives, then the price equation will change dramatically.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:16:42 -0500
> From: Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Pre-installed Linux on laptops
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Message-ID:
> <d181b7d71001261216p6990bce8o5fdb093594ef4701 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/26/2010 3:00 PM, Bob Kline wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:35 PM, john-thomas richards
>> <jtr at jrichards.org
>> > <mailto:jtr at jrichards.org>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 02:20:50PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote:
>> > [snip]
>> > > The technical details are pretty skimpy.
>> > > e.g., how much RAM. IMHO it's better to
>> > > get a cheap laptop and just run Puppy
>> > > or something. The netbooks look pretty
>> > > expensive yet for what you get. A CPU
>> > > with no poop, and pretty lousy battery life.
>> >
>> > It's amazing how these "netbooks" resemble regular laptops from a
>> couple
>> > years ago but with a small screen. I think the concept was a
>> small,
>> > lightweight net device that wouldn't hurt a great deal if lost /
>> dropped
>> > / stolen. Now "netbook" essentially means "laptop with small
>> screen
>> and
>> > little cost-savings."
>> > --
>> > john-thomas
>> >
>> > I think the last line about covers it.
>> > At present, they make little economic
>> > sense IMHO.
>>
>> It really depends on your needs. If all I was going to do was basic web
>> browsing with flashblock, mixed in with a little SSH, it'd be fine.
>> However, my laptop is also a relay point for my photography, so I need a
>> little more oomph.
>>
>> Intel's NOBi is a neat little device I'd thoroughly enjoy if I didn't
>> need to handle photo processing at a con once in a while. Otherwise,
>> it'd handle my needs.
>>
>
> True. My main gripe is that there
> is so little product distinction between
> a low end laptop and a netbook. I think
> a netbook should be sans hard drive.
> It should allow you to attach as large a
> flash drive to it as you care to pay for.
> And I'd prefer that it be capable of
> running a mainstream copy of Linux,
> which for me could be Puppy or Ubuntu.
>
> As it is, I believe they are simply packaging
> gimmicks at this point. Small and cheesy,
> expensive, and just scaled down laptops,
> not something rugged and cheap.
>
> HP had a unit a year or more ago that
> about fit the bill - 1GB of RAM, 16GB flash.
> I looked at one at BestBuy, and but for
> the fact they had none at that store location,
> I would have gotten one on the spot. Well
> built - stand HP quality. About $275.
>
> -- Bob
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