[GRLUG] Linux @ school.

Michael Mol mikemol at gmail.com
Wed Oct 4 20:43:59 EDT 2006 

Because those guys were educated 20-30 years ago or longer?

On 10/4/06, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why is the US getting all the science
> Nobel Prizes this week then?
>
> But yes,  it is cheaper to manufacture
> things in China,  of the same quality,
> when education essentially plays no
> role - like most assembly line jobs in the
> past in the US.   There is was possible
> to make $50K a year while having a
> third grade education or less.
>
> But of course that is not working any
> more.  The US was essentially a closed
> society after WWII, and unions could
> force US citizens to buy crap.  Basically
> labor monopolies,  they despised
> competition,  and could make it stick.
>
> No true any more.  When someone in
> China can do the same job for 50-cents
> an hour that someone in the US gets
> $25 and more an hour for,  plus lavish
> benefits on top of that,  it's pretty clear
> that something has to give.
>
> Tariffs?   Close the borders?   Force us
> to buy junk again?
>
> Not clear that education has much to
> do with it.  Competition does though.
>
>    -Bob
>
>
> On 10/4/06, brad <BRAD0002 at ameritech.net> wrote:
> > I agree. America's public schools must stink,look at the idiots
> > running the country, but why bother educating the young? Most
> > work can be done cheaper and better in China or India, especially
> > technical work. Everyone knows America's computer geeks are
> > definitely second tier, definitely overpaid.
> > Ask DeVos, he knows. If you want something made right...make it
> > in China.
> >
> >
> > --- Original Message ---
> > From: "Benjamin Flanders" <flanderb at gmail.com>
> > To: rlauzon at acm.org, grlug at grlug.org
> > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Linux @ school.
> >
> > >The reason schools pay money for Windows is because they don't know
> > >any better.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On 9/27/06, Ron Lauzon <rlauzon at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Let me chime in on this, since this is a sore point for me
> > (both my dad and
> > >> one of my brother's are teachers).
> > >>
> > >> Having had bad teachers, and having seen what the schools did
> > to my
> > >> brothers, I can see Collin's point.  I think that we pay
> > teachers way too
> > >> much *for what we get from them*.
> > >>
> > >> I think the issue here is value.  I don't mind paying a good
> > teacher plenty
> > >> of money, but I do mind paying a bad teacher alot of money.
> > But current
> > >> public school rules say that teacher have to be paid not on
> > how good a job
> > >> they do, but on their senority.  No wonder why charter schools
> > tend to do
> > >> better.
> > >>
> > >> Now back to Linux...
> > >> One of the issues with computer technology in schools is
> > money.  Why are
> > >> schools PAYING for Windows when Linux is free?  Why are
> > schools PAYING for
> > >> MS Office when OpenOffice is free?
> > >>
> > >>  These are the type of questions that parents need to bring up
> > to the
> > >> schools when the schools say "we don't have the money for
> > xxxxx."  Part of
> > >> the problem with the schools is that they do not spend their
> > funds wisely.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 9/27/06, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:
> > >> > > Or how about we don't pay teachers way more than they are
> > worth and
> > >> > > don't cater to their incessant demands? We waste far more
> > money on
> > >> > > teachers and their above average benefits than we ever
> > could on buying
> > >> > > computers and other supplies. Don't forget that the true
> > cost of an
> > >> > > employee is usually double their salary. For a teacher
> > making 50,000
> > >> > > that's upwards of 100,000 after payroll taxes and
> > benefits. Now you tell
> > >> > > me which is a better way to save money: Not buying $3,000
> > computers or
> > >> > > knocking holier-than-thou teachers off their bully
> > pulpits? Maybe we can
> > >> > > use the money we save to buy better supplies and hire more
> > teachers?
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't want to go too far into this debate, so I'll just
> > give my
> > >> > opinion and leave it at that:
> > >> >
> > >> > You say $50,000/year is way too much for a teacher's salary.
> > >> >
> > >> > I have 2 kids in elementary school.
> > >> >
> > >> > Your opinion scares me.
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't want someone who makes $25,000/year, for instance,
> > teaching my
> > >> > kids.  Period.  What kind of people will you end up with if
> > you don't
> > >> > pay a decent salary?  You'll end up with people who couldn't
> > get a
> > >> > better job doing something else.  That's frightening.
> > >> >
> > >> > My children will (unfortunately) spend more time with their
> > teacher
> > >> > during the week than with me.  I want that person to be
> > someone who has
> > >> > a good education, who is well-qualified, and who makes a
> > good salary.  I
> > >> > want the position of "teacher" to be desirable and
> > satisfying for
> > >> > intelligent, well-educated people who can be good role
> > models for kids.
> > >> >
> > >> > Basically, I don't want someone in a comparable economic
> > position to the
> > >> > assistant manager at Wendy's educating my children.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks for reading.
> > >> >
> > >> > We can go back to talking about Linux now...  :)
> > >> >
> > >> > -Ben
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > grlug mailing list
> > >> > grlug at grlug.org
> > >> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Ron Lauzon - rlauzon at acm dot org
> > >>    Homepage: http://7lauzon.home.comcast.net/
> > >>    Weblog: http://ronsapartment.blogspot.com/
> > >>
> > >>    DNRC: Lord of All Things That Are Fattening
> > >>
> > >>    "To be sure, conservative radio talk show hosts have a built-in
> > >>    audience unavailable to liberals: People driving cars to some
> > >>    sort of job." - Ann Coulter
> > >>
> > >> Microsoft Free since July 06, 2001
> > >> Running Mandrake Linux 10.1
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> grlug mailing list
> > >> grlug at grlug.org
> > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Share and Enjoy
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> >
> >
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