<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Kyle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dontwantspam1@earthlink.net">dontwantspam1@earthlink.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><blockquote style="padding-left:5px;margin-left:0px;border-left:#0000ff 2px solid"><div><div></div><div class="h5">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Bob Kline <u></u>
<br>Sent: Sep 23, 2011 1:36 PM
<br>To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area." <u></u>
<br>Subject: Re: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX - net neutrality
<br><br>And of course few ISPs are<div>truly independent of the big</div><div>players, who own the backbones.</div><div>Those have to be paid for too.</div><div><br></div><div>Odd however that Google puts a</div><div>1Gbps system in Kansas, and doesn't</div>
<div>seem to worry about the cost. In fact</div><div>does so as a test case should Internet</div><div>neutrality, which it depends on, totally</div><div>breaks down.</div><div><br></div><div>And there are towns like Lafayette, LA,</div>
<div>which have their own fiber Internet, and</div><div>charge $58 a month for 50 Mbps - full</div><div>duplex!</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, they too use the same backbones</div><div>as everyone else. But there's room to </div>
<div>believe there's something wrong with the</div><div>current price picture. And remember that</div><div>ISPs are often monopolies - at least the </div><div>wire and fiber parts.</div><div><br></div><div> -- Bob</div>
</div></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Chase Bolen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chase.bolen@gmail.com" target="_blank">chase.bolen@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p></p><div class="im">That only works for the minority of people who:<br>
1) have a choice of ISPs<br></div>
2) can afford it<div class="im"><br>
3) understand what an SLA is</div><p></p>
<p>Are the vast majority of Americans essentially doomed to a mickey mouse internet?</p><div><div></div><div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 23, 2011 12:56 PM, "Michael Mol" <<a href="mailto:mikemol@gmail.com" target="_blank">mikemol@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br type="attribution">> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Bob Kline <<a href="mailto:bob.kline@gmail.com" target="_blank">bob.kline@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/u-net-neutrality-rules-effect-november-160334496.html" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/u-net-neutrality-rules-effect-november-160334496.html</a><br>>> The game is pretty simple. The little<br>
>> people want the Internet to be content<br>>> neutral.<br>> <br>> So do network operators, oddly enough.<br>> <br>>> Internet providers don't.<br>> <br>> AT&T and Comcast, no; they have divisions whose profit motives are add<br>
> odds with each other; it doesn't do Comcast's ISP side any good to<br>> block Netflix for their customers, and it doesn't do Comcast's video<br>> services side any good to allow a competing service down pipes the<br>
> company already owns.<br>> <br>>> Does anyone see anything more to the issue<br>>> than that? i.e., anything that doesn't simply<br>>> mean the providers want to throw more ads<br>>> at you, and decide just what you look at?<br>
>> That I can tell, the providers still have the<br>>> last word on all this. The little people can<br>>> switch providers, but their control ends there.<br>> <br>> Don't like it? Pay to get an internet connection from an ISP whose<br>
> only interest is moving data around. Or pay for an internet connection<br>> with an SLA. Don't get a cheap, subsidized* internet connection and<br>> then complain about limitations placed on that connections because<br>
> they conflict with the source of the subsidy.<br>> <br>> * VOIP, VOD, television, ads, etc.<br>> <br>> There's no such thing as a free lunch; there's only paid lunch or stolen lunch.<br>> <br>
> -- <br></div></div><div class="im">
> :wq<br>> <br>> -- <br>> This message has been scanned for viruses and<br>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<br>> believed to be clean.<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> grlug mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>> <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br>
</div></div><div class="im">
<br>--
<br>This message has been scanned for viruses and
<br>dangerous content by
<a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/" target="_blank"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is
<br>believed to be clean.
</div></div></div><div class="im"><br>_______________________________________________<br>
grlug mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>
<a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div><div class="im">
<br>--
<br>This message has been scanned for viruses and
<br>dangerous content by
<a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/" target="_blank"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is
<br>believed to be clean.
<u></u><u></u></div></blockquote><u></u><u></u><br><u></u><u></u><div><u></u><u></u>If your belief in this is that strong, the solution is clear: start your own ISP. Provide the competition you desire. Those who are vehement about it enough to switch for the same reason can, and rather than trying to force the hand of those who are giving you something different than you want, you can lead by example. If you get it large enough to be a threat, maybe the other providers will change to compete with you. If not, you can still provide a niche service. As I see it, it's the same reason some companies sell machines preloaded with Linux.<u></u><u></u></div>
<div><u></u><u></u><br><u></u><u></u></div><div><u></u><u></u>Although that sort of thing does require more than just talking about it.<u></u><u></u></div><div><u></u><u></u><br><u></u><u></u></div><font color="#888888"><div>
<u></u><u></u>- Kyle<u></u><u></u></div></font><div class="im"> </div></div></blockquote><div>I see a pretty big bag of points here.</div><div>Part of it appeals to good old fashioned</div><div>capitalism and competition. Competition</div>
<div>works. Which is why most businesses </div><div>hate it, and do whatever they can to </div><div>defeat it.</div><div><br></div><div>The FCC tried to define and implement</div><div>net neutrality. Next thing one hears is</div>
<div>members of Congress saying that kind</div><div>of thing is their job. Think anyone got to</div><div>them?</div><div><br></div><div>"Start your own ISP" usually means going</div><div>big, or at least leasing capacity from existing</div>
<div>big players. Hard to see how that could end</div><div>up being cheaper. For the technically </div><div>sophisticated, setting up a local network is</div><div>completely feasible. People talked about it</div><div>here a while back. Uhmm, talking is usually the</div>
<div>first step before simply wasting one's time,</div><div>effort, and money.</div><div><br></div><div> -- Bob</div><div><br></div></div>
<br />--
<br />This message has been scanned for viruses and
<br />dangerous content by
<a href="http://www.mailscanner.info/"><b>MailScanner</b></a>, and is
<br />believed to be clean.