To constrain the conversation<div>a little bit, I'd be talking about</div><div>home service here. Others might</div><div>be talking about their place of work,</div><div>where the cost picture can be yet</div><div>different.</div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Michael Mol <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mikemol@gmail.com">mikemol@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im">On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Bob Kline <<a href="mailto:bob.kline@gmail.com">bob.kline@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> And of course few ISPs are<br>
> truly independent of the big<br>
> players, who own the backbones.<br>
<br>
</div>Who do you define as the big players? Comcast and AT&T?<br>
<br>
What about XO? Hurricane Electric? Global Crossings?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Big players own fiber backbones. AT&T.</div><div>Comcast. Verizon. Probably other ex-BOCs.</div><div>Don't know about Global Crossings - seems it</div>
<div>had some problems a while back. Overextended?</div><div>Corruption? A big player could be Google if it</div><div>decides to go for it.</div><div><br></div><div>Any company that could lay a set of nation</div><div>wide fibers if it chose to, as well as local</div>
<div>distribution.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
The majority of public complaints I hear about are about tier 2 ISPs<br>
with a bent towards consumer services. Those are the ones people are<br>
calling the "big players." They're not the ones who control the bulk<br>
of the backbone.<br>
<br>
My VPS provider is shortly getting a 1Gb/s unmetered pipe from<br>
Hurricane Electric for $1k/mo. That's considered cheap.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>How extensive is it? Nation wide, with</div><div>access to the home? Many big companies</div><div>have inter company networks. To me that</div>
<div>is not an ISP. $1K a month is not out of</div><div>the question if it has the same range of </div><div>access that Comcast now has.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
> Those have to be paid for too.<br>
> Odd however that Google puts a<br>
> 1Gbps system in Kansas, and doesn't<br>
> seem to worry about the cost. In fact<br>
> does so as a test case should Internet<br>
> neutrality, which it depends on, totally<br>
> breaks down.<br>
> And there are towns like Lafayette, LA,<br>
> which have their own fiber Internet, and<br>
> charge $58 a month for 50 Mbps - full<br>
> duplex!<br>
> Yes, they too use the same backbones<br>
> as everyone else. But there's room to<br>
> believe there's something wrong with the<br>
> current price picture.<br>
<br>
</div>I recall that conversation. They've mortgaged their public utilities<br>
infrastructure over the next thirty years to get it. In 20 years,<br>
that'll look like a terrible investment, as everyone else will be<br>
beyond that, and doesn't still have ten years of a mortgage to pay<br>
off.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Beyond what? Seems to me a fiber to</div><div>the home system is about as long term</div><div>as one can imagine right now. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
> And remember that<br>
> ISPs are often monopolies - at least the<br>
> wire and fiber parts.<br>
<br>
</div>For existing infrastructure. They still sell leased lines. And you can<br>
still get your own copper and fiber. But then we're talking money<br>
again. So you buy from someone (say, an office building owner. Or a<br>
data center.) who can split the cost across dozens of customers. Heck,<br>
there's someone in Grandville who probably has the capacity to do that<br>
for Grandville's downtown area.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><br></div></div></blockquote><div>Of course in a business where the</div><div>technology advances quickly the decision</div><div>about when to go in is always a gamble.</div><div><br></div>
<div>No solution to that. Wait for a PC to</div><div>become cheap enough and you can just</div><div>burn up heartbeats waiting. Other factors</div><div>apply.</div><div><br></div><div> -- Bob</div><div> </div></div></div>
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