I'm another one of those people........<div><br></div><div>A piece on NPR mentioned that on</div><div>average, South Korea now has 200X</div><div>the bandwidth of the average in the US.</div><div><br></div><div>In practice that means about 60Mbps </div>
<div>in SK, and in the US half the population</div><div>still has dialup from what I read. </div><div><br></div><div>Wiring costs. That much is true everywhere.</div><div>The farmer in the boonies is not typically going to </div>
<div>have the latest and greatest.</div><div><br></div><div> -- Bob</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 12:00 AM, Michael Mol <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mikemol@gmail.com">mikemol@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><p>I'm one of those people who thinks government generally makes things worse.</p>
<p>As far as a solution...I'm not convinced ISDN isn't at least part of the solution. That gets you 112Kb/s up and down over the same copper that struggles to get you a stable 33.6Kb/s otherwise.</p>
<p>Another part of the solution is likely to be wireless mesh with a mix of high and low-power nodes. A 4W on an <br>
omni is visible from a long ways, and a cantenna on a rotor would improve that. Get cheap mesh repeaters incorporated in rural street light fixtures, and you've got a layer-2 mesh backbone ISPs can provide pay gateways on.</p>
<p>It won't be as nice as cable or DSL, but you can't force the installation and maintenance of those without the money coming from SOMEWHERE, and you better value urban-equivalent broadband for rural customers more than the vendors to whatever spending entity you took the money from.</p>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 30, 2011 11:08 PM, "Chase Bolen" <<a href="mailto:chase.bolen@gmail.com" target="_blank">chase.bolen@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> I'm one of those people who live in the boonies. We're maybe twenty<br>
> minutes from downtown GR. When we moved here, we were under the<br>> impression that there WERE faster wires here, but it turned out that<br>> "here" according to the ISPs was "in our zipcode".<br>
> <br>> We have satellite internet, and it's NOT a broadband replacement. Three<br>> to six second round-trip packet times make anything media related either<br>> unusable or nearly so (youtube, pandora, hulu). Sites using ajax barely<br>
> work, and often time out. Anything real time is pretty much out of the<br>> question (Skype, online gaming). Even if those DID work, though, the<br>> bandwidth caps would get hit pretty quickly. On top of this, the<br>
> service is way more expensive than most other "broadband" choices, and<br>> wouldn't be an option for a lot of people.<br>> <br>> I just heard a story about local governments posting notices on the web<br>
> instead of in newspapers, and I don't think this trend is going to slow<br>> down in the near future. Commercial ISPs aren't going to willingly lose<br>> money to wire sparsely populated rural areas. Just like electrification<br>
> in the 20th century, real broadband isn't going to reach the rest of us<br>> without government intervention.<br>> <br>> On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 21:54 -0400, Bob Kline wrote:<br>>> That's basically it. More performance,<br>
>> in the most general sense, will cost more,<br>>> but it's up to the individual to decide what<br>>> they want to spend their money on. It's <br>>> no different than how people decide what<br>
>> kind of car to drive, or how big a TV they<br>>> have to have.<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> For those in the boonies, some chose to<br>>> live where it's not economic to run the <br>>> faster wires. But there's still HughesNet.<br>
>> <br>>> <br>>> -- Bob<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Joseph McLaughlin <<a href="mailto:jwm8351@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jwm8351@yahoo.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>> Are you advocating Government involvement?<br>>> Should the market place relegate this fair city to the bottom<br>>> of the heap?<br>>> And why do cows need high speed Internet? <br>
>> <br>>> There is still a bug in the program must use RAID!<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> ______________________________________________________________<br>
>> From: Michael Mol <<a href="mailto:mikemol@gmail.com" target="_blank">mikemol@gmail.com</a>><br>>> To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area."<br>>> <<a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a>><br>
>> Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 9:10:56 PM<br>>> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Google and Kansas City<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> I have a real, genuine fear that we're going about this with a<br>
>> *severe* case of myopia.<br>>> <br>>> I had difficulty navigating the web in 2007 on dial-up, with<br>>> image<br>>> bugs, large banner ads, huge JavaScript loads, large CSS<br>
>> loads,<br>>> fifteen 5k or so avatar images whenever you visit a forum<br>>> thread--even<br>>> auto-play video video advertisements...Imagine how bad it is<br>>> now.<br>
>> There are places within twenty miles of here which can't get<br>>> cable,<br>>> DSL, or even a reliable cell signal.<br>>> <br>>> Those involved in designing web services purchase very<br>
>> high-end<br>>> network connections, get accustomed to those connections, and<br>>> then<br>>> *design* for those connections. It's a really bad<br>>> self-reinforcing<br>
>> loop. Much like how software got slower as computers got<br>>> faster, but<br>>> it's much harder to raise the median Internet connection speed<br>>> than it<br>
>> is to raise the median computer speed.<br>>> <br>>> There is a not-insignificant fraction of the population in<br>>> America<br>>> itself which is still going to be completely out of reach of<br>
>> even<br>>> 10Mb/s Internet commercial services in ten years, and people<br>>> gripe<br>>> that our municipality isn't acting like those which take out a<br>>> 25-year<br>
>> mortgage on their own essential services infrastructure to<br>>> "give" us<br>>> access to gigabit broadband connections below cost.<br>>> <br>>> I can't be the only one who's noticing this. In order for a<br>
>> bound-to-the-Internet economy to be sustainable, Internet<br>>> services<br>>> need to be virtually ubiquitous, and essential activities need<br>>> to be<br>>> manageable on lower-end Internet connections.<br>
>> <br>>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Bob Kline<br>>> <<a href="mailto:bob.kline@gmail.com" target="_blank">bob.kline@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/03/google-bestows-1gbps-fiber-network-on-kansas-city-kansas.ars" target="_blank">http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/03/google-bestows-1gbps-fiber-network-on-kansas-city-kansas.ars</a><br>
>> > This gives a good summary about<br>>> > why Google is doing this. It thinks<br>>> > it needs higher speeds to support<br>>> > future projects. And it clearly sees<br>
>> > that the existing big providers are<br>>> > digging in, not providing higher speeds,<br>>> > and not above not letting others do<br>>> > it either.<br>
>> > It will be interesting to see how this<br>>> > plays out. Chattanooga, TN, already<br>>> > has a 1Gbps system.<br>>> > -- Bob<br>>> > --<br>
>> > This message has been scanned for viruses and<br>>> > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<br>>> > believed to be clean.<br>>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > grlug mailing list<br>>> > <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>>> > <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br>
>> ><br>>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> -- <br>>> :wq<br>>> <br>>> -- <br>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and<br>
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<br>>> believed to be clean.<br>>> <br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> grlug mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>>> -- <br>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is <br>>> believed to be clean.<br>>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>>> grlug mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br>
>> <br>>> <br>>> <br>>> -- <br>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and <br>>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is <br>>> believed to be clean. <br>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> grlug mailing list<br>>> <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>>> <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br>
> <br>> <br>> <br>> -- <br>> This message has been scanned for viruses and<br>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is<br>> believed to be clean.<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>
> grlug mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:grlug@grlug.org" target="_blank">grlug@grlug.org</a><br>> <a href="http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug" target="_blank">http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug</a><br>
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