What!? "conform to popular consensus?"<div><br></div><div>Sounds like something right out of "The</div><div>Fountainhead." </div><div><br></div><div>Really new ideas are almost always attacked.</div><div>
But for the the perseverance of the originators,</div><div>everything really new would go up in flames </div><div>under mob rule.</div><div><br></div><div> -- Bob</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Ben DeMott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ben.demott@gmail.com">ben.demott@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I understand what you are saying Ben...(Rousch)<br>But all ideas are bad ones if they don't conform to popular consensus ... Linux itself included.<br>
<br>My point wasn't that people should be afraid to give honest opinions if they think an idea is (bad) ... My point was the culture shouldn't be one of pessimism and negativity.<br>
There is a time and a place for implementation and realism. But there is also a time and a place for free thinking, open ideas, and imagination.<br><br>Did you forget how Linux got started?<br>Linus Torvalds original email:<br>
<br><font face="Arial"><small>From: <a href="mailto:torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI" target="_blank">torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI</a> (Linus
Benedict Torvalds)
<br>Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
<br>Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
<br>Summary: small poll for my new operating system
<br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:1991Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.Helsinki.FI" target="_blank">1991Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.Helsinki.FI</a>>
<br>Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
<br>Organization: University of Helsinki
</small><p><small>Hello everybody out there using minix -
<br>I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
<br>professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
<br>since april, and is starting to get ready.I'd like any feedback on
<br>things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
<br>(same physical layout of the file-system(due to practical reasons)
<br>among other things). I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40),and
<br>things seem to work.This implies that I'll get something practical within a
<br>few months, andI'd like to know what features most people would want. Any
<br>suggestions are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
<br>Linus (<a href="mailto:torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi" target="_blank">torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi</a>)
<br>PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
<br>It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
<br>will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's
<br>all I have :-(.</small></p><p>If Linus would have listened to the popular opinion we wouldn't even have this discussion we are having right now... The creator of Minx wrote him to say:</p><p><font face="Arial"><small>"I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic
kernel in 1991 is a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high
grade for such a design
:-)"
<br>(Andrew Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds)</small></font></p><p>So I guess what I'm saying is... Don't create an atmosphere in which it's unacceptable to post bizarre or outside-the-box ideas... that doesn't help anyone.</p>
<p>I think making "blanket-statements" within user communities like this is also a recipe for an atmosphere in which people are "afraid to share".</p><p>I'm involved pretty heavily in the Postgres development community and I see a lot of ridicule instead of appreciation of people willing to share unique ideas. Honestly I think there's lots of contrib modules to Postgres that people have proposed that would have been useful, but people simply ridiculed the idea instead of being "helpful" and nurturing the concept into a practical application.</p>
<p>I want to build a rocket to go to the moon!</p><p>-Why?</p><p>To say I've been there!</p><p>-Well that's dumb...<br></p></font><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Ben Rousch <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:brousch@gmail.com" target="_blank">brousch@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex"><div>On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Ben DeMott <<a href="mailto:ben.demott@gmail.com" target="_blank">ben.demott@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I think it's a really cool idea - lot's of open source projects distribute<br>
> their distributions this way -> and it seems to work quite well.<br>
<br>
</div>This works well for distributions because they have a lot of users who<br>
want the data (Install CD) they're downloading and sharing. In the<br>
example initially brought up in this thread, the people joining the<br>
torrent have little to no incentive for downloading the data other<br>
than they are interested in Rosetta Code. Call me a pessimist, but I'd<br>
prefer that the integrity of my backup system depend on more than just<br>
someone's whim to give me hard drive space and bandwidth.<br>
<div><br>
> Thanks for being willing and open to share unique ideas, even if it is<br>
> (just) a thought experiment, I feel people are too afraid to throw out ideas<br>
> for fear of criticism so thanks for helping to break down that stigma. I<br>
> really would like grpug, and grlug to be an environment that no matter the<br>
> topic or idea people can throw out their thoughts and experiences without<br>
> having to be worried about judgment or criticism.<br>
<br>
</div>I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. I would like to see grlug be a<br>
place where people can express their ideas specifically so that the<br>
idea can be picked over by people who know more than I do. If I ask<br>
something on the grlug list, I ask it because I value the criticism of<br>
the people on this list. There is a lot of experience here, and I want<br>
to tap into that. Of course, I'd prefer that people be friendly and<br>
constructive with their criticism, but I also don't want them to not<br>
criticise a silly idea because they're afraid of bruising my ego.<br>
<br>
I started GRPUG because I had no experience with Python and I wanted<br>
to learn the correct way of doing things from better programmers with<br>
more experience than I have. When I write some bad code, I want them<br>
to tell me so, and also let me know what I can do to make it better.<br>
<div><br>
> Someone should start a business around this, that is privatized or the<br>
> backbone is dark fiber -> like a CDN, just the content would be large files<br>
> that was distributed for quicker downloads.<br>
<br>
</div>I heard of a company doing this a couple of years ago, but I can't<br>
recall the name. This is a different company, but is using the same<br>
idea <a href="http://www.symform.com/" target="_blank">http://www.symform.com/</a><br>
<br>
--<br>
<div> Ben Rousch<br>
<a href="mailto:brousch@gmail.com" target="_blank">brousch@gmail.com</a><br>
</div> <a href="http://ishmilok.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://ishmilok.blogspot.com/</a><br>
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