From brousch at gmail.com Tue Feb 4 14:39:47 2014 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:39:47 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Killing Ye Olde Kiosk Project Wiki Message-ID: A long, long time ago - before GRMakers was even a gleam in Casey's eye - there was something called "The GRLUG Kiosk Project". At the time I set up an instance of MediaWiki to help keep track of stuff for that project. Now I would like to take down that wiki to avoid the maintenance involved with MediaWiki. So, if anyone wants or needs the information from that wiki, please scrape your own copy in the next month. I will shut it down on March 1, 2014. The URL is http://kiosk.orthicomp.com/ -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richardnienhuis at gmail.com Tue Feb 4 15:13:09 2014 From: richardnienhuis at gmail.com (Richard Nienhuis) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 15:13:09 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Killing Ye Olde Kiosk Project Wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have copies of everything there. Feel free to delete that wiki, I am probably the only person that might have cared about it. On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > A long, long time ago - before GRMakers was even a gleam in Casey's eye - > there was something called "The GRLUG Kiosk Project". At the time I set up > an instance of MediaWiki to help keep track of stuff for that project. > > Now I would like to take down that wiki to avoid the maintenance involved > with MediaWiki. So, if anyone wants or needs the information from that > wiki, please scrape your own copy in the next month. I will shut it down on > March 1, 2014. > > The URL is http://kiosk.orthicomp.com/ > > -- > Ben Rousch > brousch at gmail.com > http://clusterbleep.net/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "GRMakers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to grmakers+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Mon Feb 10 15:55:29 2014 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:55:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) Message-ID: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/02/gates-spends-entire-first-day-back-in-office-trying-to-install-windows-81.html#entry-more From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon Feb 10 22:55:33 2014 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:55:33 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) In-Reply-To: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> References: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> Message-ID: <1392090933.4810.5.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Mon, 2014-02-10 at 15:55 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/02/gates-spends-entire-first-day-back-in-office-trying-to-install-windows-81.html#entry-more > Not trying to be trying... but I'm of the opinion that even though it is satire... it has no place on this list. I don't find anything like this any fun or funny at all. Now REAL issues like the old KB article that says something like "password invalid being to long, your password must be at least 18,312 characters long!" Or Perhaps some old Microsoft Passport exploits (Being 15 years old) that *STILL* are in the APIs and respond "improperly" when tickled... oh and as a regular user on a locked down machine. NOW THOSE ARE FUN and FUNNY! Yep, I'm the mean old Moderator lackey that Bob Kline thought was doing everything to him. (I wasn't... but hey... let me take the blame for him leaving, I'm good for it.) Oh wait... nah, I'm just a big arsehole or stupid git... take your pick. My opinion still stands though, since it is mine. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "From the end spring new beginnings." -- Pliny the Elder -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From greg at gregfolkert.net Tue Feb 11 08:44:12 2014 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 08:44:12 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) In-Reply-To: <1392122462.21283.33.camel@ericscomputer> References: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> <1392090933.4810.5.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <1392122462.21283.33.camel@ericscomputer> Message-ID: <1392126252.4810.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Eric, I am sending this to the list, rather than privately. (But also BCC to you) Unless you are sending personal info or are involved in a conversation out side the list topic brought up (even if it is one like this)... it is not good netiquette. On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 07:41 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: > Greg (replying privately), > Your reply raises two different questions. > > 1. Why you don't find it funny: "Funny" is so often in the "eye" of the > beholder that I don't have any problem at all with your not finding it > funny. My wife doesn't find my puns funny and I don't find sitcoms funny > or fun. To each according to their taste. Sure Eye of the beholder... sure I get that. But we have/used to have craploads of "NOT LINUX" threads... just look at the list archive. Not cool. If you want stabs at Windows/Microsoft... go somewhere else, no a LUG List. I came back to the list when the main perpetrator left the list. Yes, grumpy old me. > 2. Why you don't think it should be thrown out to the list: I would > disagree with you here. All or nearly all of us on the list have to > struggle often or regularly with MS products. A little schadenfreude > relative to these struggles is good for the soul. And even imagining > Bill being hoist on his own pitard can help make the day go slightly > better. I happened to share the piece yesterday with my boss as he was > struggling to get IE to download the Chrome browser to a Windows server, > and it lightened his load. > > Interestingly, the author of the piece is no computer geek or Linux > devotee. His satirical work ranges far and wide--note the other post > topics at the top of the referenced post. Dealing/reading/looking at/with Windows/Microsoft is not something I want to do anymore than humanly possible. Period. If I'd want to do that, I'd not be working where I do. Don't particularly care whom the author is, even if it was Linux Torvalds himself, it is *still* not appropriate to a LUG List. Yes, Andy Borowitz is a BRILLIANT author and comments on things far and wide, yes, I don't care to read them here, any person worth their salt finds these things and reads them in the proper venue (aka not here). I came here for Linux topics or perhaps Windows topics that do indeed pertain to Linux (like configuring samba to integrate with Windows MAD or other things similar. > EB GET OFF MY LAWN! > On Mon, 2014-02-10 at 22:55 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Mon, 2014-02-10 at 15:55 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/02/gates-spends-entire-first-day-back-in-office-trying-to-install-windows-81.html#entry-more > > > > > > > Not trying to be trying... but I'm of the opinion that even though it is > > satire... it has no place on this list. I don't find anything like this > > any fun or funny at all. > > > > Now REAL issues like the old KB article that says something like > > "password invalid being to long, your password must be at least 18,312 > > characters long!" Or Perhaps some old Microsoft Passport exploits (Being > > 15 years old) that *STILL* are in the APIs and respond "improperly" when > > tickled... oh and as a regular user on a locked down machine. NOW THOSE > > ARE FUN and FUNNY! > > > > Yep, I'm the mean old Moderator lackey that Bob Kline thought was doing > > everything to him. (I wasn't... but hey... let me take the blame for him > > leaving, I'm good for it.) > > > > Oh wait... nah, I'm just a big arsehole or stupid git... take your pick. > > > > My opinion still stands though, since it is mine. > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "A smile is a curve that sets everything straight." -- Phyllis Diller -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From casey at grlug.org Tue Feb 11 08:56:53 2014 From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 08:56:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) In-Reply-To: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> References: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> Message-ID: I thought it was funny. Thanks for sharing.... On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Eric Beversluis < ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote: > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/02/gates-spends-entire-first-day-back-in-office-trying-to-install-windows-81.html#entry-more > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Casey DuBois 616-808-6942 casey at grlug.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrick at upmerchants.com Tue Feb 11 09:08:53 2014 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:08:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dead Computer - final report Message-ID: <52FA2EF5.7030407@upmerchants.com> Just to let you know the end result. (Original thread started December 16, 2013). Replaced the memory module about 5 to 6 weeks ago. Problem went away for a few days and then returned. A couple of weeks ago I went to print something and the print jusst disappeared. CUPS said it had the job and was prodessing it and it was printed. But nothing actually come out on the printer. Shortly after that cups said I did not have any printer. Did an "lshw" to check for the parallel port and it wasn't there. So I pulled the parallel port pci card and put it into a seldom used computer with windows xp. No new hardware found dialog when I turned it on. The problem disappeared on my main computer after I removed the parallel port pci card. So that seems to have been the problem. Ordered a new parallel port card. -- Patrick Goupell Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ Income taxes? Find out at http://www.whatistaxed.com From collink at kkmfg.com Tue Feb 11 09:12:01 2014 From: collink at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:12:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) In-Reply-To: <1392126252.4810.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> <1392090933.4810.5.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <1392122462.21283.33.camel@ericscomputer> <1392126252.4810.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > Eric, I am sending this to the list, rather than privately. (But also > BCC to you) > > Unless you are sending personal info or are involved in a conversation > out side the list topic brought up (even if it is one like this)... it > is not good netiquette. > > Personally I'm more offended by your behavior than anything Eric did. People like you are the sort of people that turn others away from Linux and computing in general. We (techie people) get a bad reputation for acting like jerks. I'd rather see all of us be a bit tolerant of things rather than write pointless replies to posts... like I'm doing right now... Let's get along and try to let the occasional off-topic post slide under the radar instead of being the topic police. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Tue Feb 11 09:22:32 2014 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:22:32 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) In-Reply-To: <1392126252.4810.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> <1392090933.4810.5.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <1392122462.21283.33.camel@ericscomputer> <1392126252.4810.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1392128552.21283.40.camel@ericscomputer> Well, if you want to debate it on the list, my apologies to everyone else. 1. I took my reply off-list because I believed that most of the list members would not be interested in the debate. This seems the key to "netiquette," which is a monstrously ill-defined concept. On the other hand, my original posting of the satirical link was one that I thought most list members--who can't avoid dealing with Windows extensively--would enjoy. 2. The post was clearly labeled, so it would take you or others not interested in it a mere micro-second to delete and move on to the next "relevant" post. 3. I delete, without reading them, perhaps a couple of dozen posts from this and other lists everyday because they are not what I'm interested in. I don't make judgments as to whether those topics should have been raised or not. 4. Your lawn??? On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 08:44 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > Eric, I am sending this to the list, rather than privately. (But also > BCC to you) > > Unless you are sending personal info or are involved in a conversation > out side the list topic brought up (even if it is one like this)... it > is not good netiquette. > > On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 07:41 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > Greg (replying privately), > > Your reply raises two different questions. > > > > 1. Why you don't find it funny: "Funny" is so often in the "eye" of the > > beholder that I don't have any problem at all with your not finding it > > funny. My wife doesn't find my puns funny and I don't find sitcoms funny > > or fun. To each according to their taste. > > Sure Eye of the beholder... sure I get that. But we have/used to have > craploads of "NOT LINUX" threads... just look at the list archive. Not > cool. If you want stabs at Windows/Microsoft... go somewhere else, no a > LUG List. I came back to the list when the main perpetrator left the > list. Yes, grumpy old me. > > > 2. Why you don't think it should be thrown out to the list: I would > > disagree with you here. All or nearly all of us on the list have to > > struggle often or regularly with MS products. A little schadenfreude > > relative to these struggles is good for the soul. And even imagining > > Bill being hoist on his own pitard can help make the day go slightly > > better. I happened to share the piece yesterday with my boss as he was > > struggling to get IE to download the Chrome browser to a Windows server, > > and it lightened his load. > > > > Interestingly, the author of the piece is no computer geek or Linux > > devotee. His satirical work ranges far and wide--note the other post > > topics at the top of the referenced post. > > Dealing/reading/looking at/with Windows/Microsoft is not something I > want to do anymore than humanly possible. Period. If I'd want to do > that, I'd not be working where I do. Don't particularly care whom the > author is, even if it was Linux Torvalds himself, it is *still* not > appropriate to a LUG List. Yes, Andy Borowitz is a BRILLIANT author and > comments on things far and wide, yes, I don't care to read them here, > any person worth their salt finds these things and reads them in the > proper venue (aka not here). I came here for Linux topics or perhaps > Windows topics that do indeed pertain to Linux (like configuring samba > to integrate with Windows MAD or other things similar. > > > EB > > GET OFF MY LAWN! > > > On Mon, 2014-02-10 at 22:55 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > On Mon, 2014-02-10 at 15:55 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > > > http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2014/02/gates-spends-entire-first-day-back-in-office-trying-to-install-windows-81.html#entry-more > > > > > > > > > > Not trying to be trying... but I'm of the opinion that even though it is > > > satire... it has no place on this list. I don't find anything like this > > > any fun or funny at all. > > > > > > Now REAL issues like the old KB article that says something like > > > "password invalid being to long, your password must be at least 18,312 > > > characters long!" Or Perhaps some old Microsoft Passport exploits (Being > > > 15 years old) that *STILL* are in the APIs and respond "improperly" when > > > tickled... oh and as a regular user on a locked down machine. NOW THOSE > > > ARE FUN and FUNNY! > > > > > > Yep, I'm the mean old Moderator lackey that Bob Kline thought was doing > > > everything to him. (I wasn't... but hey... let me take the blame for him > > > leaving, I'm good for it.) > > > > > > Oh wait... nah, I'm just a big arsehole or stupid git... take your pick. > > > > > > My opinion still stands though, since it is mine. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From greg at gregfolkert.net Tue Feb 11 10:18:21 2014 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:18:21 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) In-Reply-To: References: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> <1392090933.4810.5.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <1392122462.21283.33.camel@ericscomputer> <1392126252.4810.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1392131901.4810.35.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 09:12 -0500, Collin Kidder wrote: > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Greg Folkert > wrote: > Eric, I am sending this to the list, rather than privately. > (But also > BCC to you) > > Unless you are sending personal info or are involved in a > conversation > out side the list topic brought up (even if it is one like > this)... it > is not good netiquette. > > > > Personally I'm more offended by your behavior than anything Eric did. > People like you are the sort of people that turn others away from > Linux and computing in general. We (techie people) get a bad > reputation for acting like jerks. I'd rather see all of us be a bit > tolerant of things rather than write pointless replies to posts... > like I'm doing right now... Let's get along and try to let the > occasional off-topic post slide under the radar instead of being the > topic police. I'm sick and tired of reading Windows/Microsoft satire in a Linux Forum. It isn't satire anymore. It is old, same old stories rehashed for newer stuff and is just getting tiring to read it time and time again when some one "discovers it" again. It is like those chain e-mails that resurface every 18 months, old. Windows is established that it is a POS being forced down throats of unsuspecting users that don't know it is Dog Scat and love it without understanding there are other better options. Furthermore, if you choose to use Windows and complain about it, go complain in a Windows forum and see how far it gets you. It is the same old same old pundits everywhere (yes, I'm a Linux pundit). I work in Linux all day, everyday, don't care to deal with or read about Windows, except as to interoperability, period. I've already done 4.5M work/reach arounds for Windows... I don't care to read anymore about it. That is my story, I'm sticking to it, as I have for many years. GET OFF MY LAWN! (Being a Grumpy old codger and YES my lawn) -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "A smile is a curve that sets everything straight." -- Phyllis Diller -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From greg at gregfolkert.net Tue Feb 11 10:30:08 2014 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:30:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] entertaining bit of satire re M$ (I think it's satire) In-Reply-To: <1392128552.21283.40.camel@ericscomputer> References: <1392065729.21283.13.camel@ericscomputer> <1392090933.4810.5.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <1392122462.21283.33.camel@ericscomputer> <1392126252.4810.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <1392128552.21283.40.camel@ericscomputer> Message-ID: <1392132608.4810.43.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2014-02-11 at 09:22 -0500, Eric Beversluis wrote: > Well, if you want to debate it on the list, my apologies to everyone > else. > > 1. I took my reply off-list because I believed that most of the list > members would not be interested in the debate. This seems the key to > "netiquette," which is a monstrously ill-defined concept. On the other > hand, my original posting of the satirical link was one that I thought > most list members--who can't avoid dealing with Windows > extensively--would enjoy. Yes, again, eye of the beholder... personally, I'd rather encounter a "Beholder" to numb my mind than read Windows/Microsoft Satire. Sorry, again, it is my opinion. Also notice my signature today. > 2. The post was clearly labeled, so it would take you or others not > interested in it a mere micro-second to delete and move on to the next > "relevant" post. Clearly labeled as a Windows satirical post... hmmm LUG Mailing list... something seems wrong there. > 3. I delete, without reading them, perhaps a couple of dozen posts from > this and other lists everyday because they are not what I'm interested > in. I don't make judgments as to whether those topics should have been > raised or not. A list with some modicum of self-restraint (yes I know, "oh the irony, you Greg!"), we wouldn't have to have these discussions. I find these kind of things similar to the people that ask for help and then ARGUE with the help provider, or publicly discount the answer "Nope, can't possibly be that" even when it turns out to BE just that. > 4. Your lawn??? Yes my lawn... it is a flippant answer used in many situations to say something in a nice way, rather than use swear words. Evidently sarcasm is lost on you. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "A smile is a curve that sets everything straight." -- Phyllis Diller -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Feb 11 11:15:46 2014 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:15:46 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dead Computer - final report In-Reply-To: <52FA2EF5.7030407@upmerchants.com> References: <52FA2EF5.7030407@upmerchants.com> Message-ID: <20140211111546.7e327a22@zoe> On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:08:53 -0500 Patrick Goupell wrote: > Just to let you know the end result. (Original thread started > December 16, 2013). > > Replaced the memory module about 5 to 6 weeks ago. Problem went away > for a few days and then returned. > > A couple of weeks ago I went to print something and the print jusst > disappeared. CUPS said it had the job and was prodessing it and it > was printed. But nothing actually come out on the printer. > > Shortly after that cups said I did not have any printer. > > Did an "lshw" to check for the parallel port and it wasn't there. > > So I pulled the parallel port pci card and put it into a seldom used > computer with windows xp. No new hardware found dialog when I turned > it on. > > The problem disappeared on my main computer after I removed the > parallel port pci card. So that seems to have been the problem. > > Ordered a new parallel port card. > > I missed the thread at the time, but this is a good argument for using USB devices where possible; they tend to be far less electrically invasive in the computer. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mfarver at mindbent.org Tue Feb 11 11:33:24 2014 From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:33:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dead Computer - final report In-Reply-To: <20140211111546.7e327a22@zoe> References: <52FA2EF5.7030407@upmerchants.com> <20140211111546.7e327a22@zoe> Message-ID: The first step in any troubleshooting process should be to remove everything that is not critical to the system. CDrom, minimal ram, modem, accessory cards etc. A parallel port card would definitely have qualified if we had known you had one. (When I worked at Dell the first troubleshooting step for laptops was always "screws and CRUs (Customer Replaceable Units)". Dell sold several models of laptops that used pressure from the case to hold connectors together inside. To make it worse they had a run of systems in the 2001 era that were assembled to the wrong torque specs.Screws would loosen or fall out, connectors would pull apart and the systems became flaky) Mark From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 11:54:02 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:54:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity Message-ID: Have an opportunity to propose an IMAP server to replace Exchange, .. what is a good recommendation considering: * Security - SPAM/Virus filtering * Flexibility - any number of domains or users per domain * Maintenance - Web-based UI for normal admin (i.e. SysAdmin not required) * Compatibility - standard IMAP, of course, .. but is it worthwhile to goto a more 'Exchange Compatible' architecture My initial research had create a big question: Most of the 'name' systems (e.g. Zimbra, Zentyal), have not realy security; NONE I have seen will do milter style filtering (i.e. reject before acceptance any emails from a dynamic IP block). What are folks using now? Thanks! Lee From megadave at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 12:13:54 2014 From: megadave at gmail.com (Dave Chiodo) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:13:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does it have to be a local machine? Because to be honest, while IMAP is a fantastic concept, I have NEVER seen a really good implementation, either Free or proprietary. And they are all a complete headache. Depending on budget and needs, Google email for business might be a good solution that meets all those requirements. On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:54 AM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Have an opportunity to propose an IMAP server to replace Exchange, .. what > is a good recommendation considering: > > * Security - SPAM/Virus filtering > * Flexibility - any number of domains or users per domain > * Maintenance - Web-based UI for normal admin (i.e. SysAdmin not > required) > * Compatibility - standard IMAP, of course, .. but is it worthwhile to > goto a more 'Exchange Compatible' architecture > > My initial research had create a big question: > > Most of the 'name' systems (e.g. Zimbra, Zentyal), have not realy > security; NONE I have seen will do milter style filtering (i.e. reject > before acceptance any emails from a dynamic IP block). > > What are folks using now? > > Thanks! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrick at upmerchants.com Wed Feb 12 12:12:59 2014 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:12:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52FBAB9B.1090403@upmerchants.com> If you are loking for a front end filter to the mail server then have a look at the "Email Filter Appliance" http://efa-project.org/ On 02/12/2014 11:54 AM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Have an opportunity to propose an IMAP server to replace Exchange, .. what > is a good recommendation considering: > > * Security - SPAM/Virus filtering > * Flexibility - any number of domains or users per domain > * Maintenance - Web-based UI for normal admin (i.e. SysAdmin not > required) > * Compatibility - standard IMAP, of course, .. but is it worthwhile to > goto a more 'Exchange Compatible' architecture > > My initial research had create a big question: > > Most of the 'name' systems (e.g. Zimbra, Zentyal), have not realy > security; NONE I have seen will do milter style filtering (i.e. reject > before acceptance any emails from a dynamic IP block). > > What are folks using now? > > Thanks! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > -- Patrick Goupell Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ Income taxes? Find out at http://www.whatistaxed.com From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 12:16:48 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:16:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Dave Chiodo wrote: > Does it have to be a local machine? Because to be honest, while IMAP is a > fantastic concept, I have NEVER seen a really good implementation, either > Free or proprietary. And they are all a complete headache. > > Depending on budget and needs, Google email for business might be a good > solution that meets all those requirements. > Sorry, it will never be Google. I, for one, will not voluntarily send email to the NSA. Lee From jjesse at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 12:17:38 2014 From: jjesse at gmail.com (Jonathan Jesse) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:17:38 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: <52FBAB9B.1090403@upmerchants.com> References: <52FBAB9B.1090403@upmerchants.com> Message-ID: What is the reason for migrating off of Exchange? If it is just to get off of having to admin the Exchange box have you looked into Office 365 where the customer just uses the cloud (hosted) version of Exchange along with providing access to the full cloud version of Office? Or if you are trying to move away from the whole Exchange environment have you looked into Google Apps. What is the reasoning behind the replacement On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Patrick Goupell wrote: > If you are loking for a front end filter to the mail server then have a > look at the "Email Filter Appliance" > > http://efa-project.org/ > > > > On 02/12/2014 11:54 AM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > >> Have an opportunity to propose an IMAP server to replace Exchange, .. what >> is a good recommendation considering: >> >> * Security - SPAM/Virus filtering >> * Flexibility - any number of domains or users per domain >> * Maintenance - Web-based UI for normal admin (i.e. SysAdmin not >> required) >> * Compatibility - standard IMAP, of course, .. but is it worthwhile to >> goto a more 'Exchange Compatible' architecture >> >> My initial research had create a big question: >> >> Most of the 'name' systems (e.g. Zimbra, Zentyal), have not realy >> security; NONE I have seen will do milter style filtering (i.e. reject >> before acceptance any emails from a dynamic IP block). >> >> What are folks using now? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Lee >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> >> >> > -- > Patrick Goupell > > Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ > Income taxes? Find out at http://www.whatistaxed.com > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 12:19:49 2014 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:19:49 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:54 AM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Have an opportunity to propose an IMAP server to replace Exchange, .. what > is a good recommendation considering: > > * Security - SPAM/Virus filtering > * Flexibility - any number of domains or users per domain > * Maintenance - Web-based UI for normal admin (i.e. SysAdmin not > required) > * Compatibility - standard IMAP, of course, .. but is it worthwhile to > goto a more 'Exchange Compatible' architecture > > My initial research had create a big question: > > Most of the 'name' systems (e.g. Zimbra, Zentyal), have not realy > security; NONE I have seen will do milter style filtering (i.e. reject > before acceptance any emails from a dynamic IP block). > > What are folks using now? > > Thanks! You'll need to piece something together. Dovecot for IMAP. Postfix for SMTP. Any webmail client you like that can be backed by IMAP. There are tools that provide Exchange-compatible gear, but I don't remember what they're called. -- :wq From megadave at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 12:22:16 2014 From: megadave at gmail.com (Dave Chiodo) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:22:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Uhm. "The NSA" can already sniff every bit of non-encrypted traffic entering or existing your network (eg, SMTP), if they want to. And probably any that is encrypted, if its using SSL certs from the official CA's. On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:16 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Dave Chiodo wrote: > > > Does it have to be a local machine? Because to be honest, while IMAP is a > > fantastic concept, I have NEVER seen a really good implementation, either > > Free or proprietary. And they are all a complete headache. > > > > Depending on budget and needs, Google email for business might be a good > > solution that meets all those requirements. > > > Sorry, it will never be Google. I, for one, will not voluntarily send > email to the NSA. > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 12:22:56 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:22:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: <52FBAB9B.1090403@upmerchants.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Jonathan Jesse wrote: > What is the reason for migrating off of Exchange? > Not migrate off, just need an option for those domains that don't want the cost or complexity of Exchange. > Or if you are trying to move away from the whole Exchange environment have > you looked into Google Apps. > Google will never happen - I cannot in good conscience submit email to NSA and ca neither recommend it to anyone. Google makes billions off the illeratti, .. I do my best to make a difference through education. Lee From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 12:24:21 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:24:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Michael Mol wrote: > You'll need to piece something together. > > Dovecot for IMAP. Postfix for SMTP. Any webmail client you like that > can be backed by IMAP. > Like to avoid that, .. so far, the leaders are: * Mailserv * Zimbra * Zentyal > There are tools that provide Exchange-compatible gear, but I don't > remember what they're called. > Don't have to have Exchange compatibility, just looking for sane options. Thanks! Lee From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 12:25:21 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:25:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Dave Chiodo wrote: > Uhm. > > "The NSA" can already sniff every bit of non-encrypted traffic entering or > existing your network (eg, SMTP), if they want to. And probably any that is > encrypted, if its using SSL certs from the official CA's. > Sniffing and Giving are two dramatically different concepts, .. are they not? Lee PS - Big reason I use duckduckgo! From megadave at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 12:35:54 2014 From: megadave at gmail.com (Dave Chiodo) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:35:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Not really. By transmitting your information over any unencrypted Internet link, you are in effect "giving" it to any/all the same people that you are paranoid that google might give it to. However, you make your choices, I'll make mine. And since this subthread is off-topic, I'll engage no further on it on the list. On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:25 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Dave Chiodo wrote: > > > Uhm. > > > > "The NSA" can already sniff every bit of non-encrypted traffic entering > or > > existing your network (eg, SMTP), if they want to. And probably any that > is > > encrypted, if its using SSL certs from the official CA's. > > > Sniffing and Giving are two dramatically different concepts, .. are they > not? > > Lee > > PS - Big reason I use duckduckgo! > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 12:40:17 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:40:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Dave Chiodo wrote: > Not really. By transmitting your information over any unencrypted Internet > link, you are in effect "giving" it to any/all the same people that you are > paranoid that google might give it to. > Not quite, .. for two reasons: * By always using SSL encryption, there is at some level of security; and * With the BILLIONS of links concurrently on the 'Net at any instant, sniffing one conversation spread across multiple NAPs is a LOT more complicated than receiving a data dump from Google/Yahoo/AOL/ATT/Charter, et al. > However, you make your choices, I'll make mine. > As do we all. Thanks! Lee From patrick at upmerchants.com Wed Feb 12 12:42:56 2014 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:42:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52FBB2A0.60609@upmerchants.com> On 02/12/2014 12:19 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:54 AM, L. V. Lammert wrote: >> Have an opportunity to propose an IMAP server to replace Exchange, .. what >> is a good recommendation considering: >> >> * Security - SPAM/Virus filtering >> * Flexibility - any number of domains or users per domain >> * Maintenance - Web-based UI for normal admin (i.e. SysAdmin not >> required) >> * Compatibility - standard IMAP, of course, .. but is it worthwhile to >> goto a more 'Exchange Compatible' architecture >> >> My initial research had create a big question: >> >> Most of the 'name' systems (e.g. Zimbra, Zentyal), have not realy >> security; NONE I have seen will do milter style filtering (i.e. reject >> before acceptance any emails from a dynamic IP block). >> >> What are folks using now? >> >> Thanks! > You'll need to piece something together. > > Dovecot for IMAP. Postfix for SMTP. Any webmail client you like that > can be backed by IMAP. > > There are tools that provide Exchange-compatible gear, but I don't > remember what they're called. > howtoforge.com has some good tutorials on setting up email with multiple domains, users, spam filtering and more. Just go there and search on "email virtual users domains". There are tutorials for .deb and .rpm baed distributrions. -- Patrick Goupell Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ Income taxes? Find out at http://www.whatistaxed.com From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 12:51:25 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 11:51:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: <52FBB2A0.60609@upmerchants.com> References: <52FBB2A0.60609@upmerchants.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Patrick Goupell wrote: > howtoforge.com has some good tutorials on setting up email with multiple > domains, users, spam filtering and more. > > Just go there and search on "email virtual users domains". > > There are tutorials for .deb and .rpm baed distributrions. > Interesting, .. thanks! Lee From matt at zigg.com Wed Feb 12 13:21:47 2014 From: matt at zigg.com (Matt Behrens) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:21:47 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Feb 12, 2014, at 12:40 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > * By always using SSL encryption, there is at some level of security; This is true (to a degree?the CA compromise was already brought up in this thread), but > * With the BILLIONS of links concurrently on the 'Net at any instant, > sniffing one conversation spread across multiple NAPs is a LOT more > complicated than receiving a data dump from > Google/Yahoo/AOL/ATT/Charter, et al. This is not. The NSA?s apparatus is sprawling and can handle this just fine. Now, if you?d said you were opposed to giving your email *to Google*, I?d be more with you. Though of course they can read a large amount of it anyway since a lot of mail ends up passing through their hands anyway. If you?re really concerned about this, you should be pushing for end-to-end encryption of the messages themselves. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4094 bytes Desc: not available URL: From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 13:57:21 2014 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:57:21 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use postfix/CyrusIMAP/Amavisd-new Amavis provides av and anti-uce using perl plugins. You can also hookup DKIM and SPF too. Checkout my headers to see it all in action. This would make a great meeting topic! Compile/configure an fully fledged email server in under 75 minutes. Basically, you'd end up with a Baracuda email scanner. -j -- Right to Life of Michigan Director of Information Services 616.446.6492 / jdenick at rtl.org > On Feb 12, 2014, at 11:54 AM, "L. V. Lammert" wrote: > > Have an opportunity to propose an IMAP server to replace Exchange, .. what > is a good recommendation considering: > > * Security - SPAM/Virus filtering > * Flexibility - any number of domains or users per domain > * Maintenance - Web-based UI for normal admin (i.e. SysAdmin not > required) > * Compatibility - standard IMAP, of course, .. but is it worthwhile to > goto a more 'Exchange Compatible' architecture > > My initial research had create a big question: > > Most of the 'name' systems (e.g. Zimbra, Zentyal), have not realy > security; NONE I have seen will do milter style filtering (i.e. reject > before acceptance any emails from a dynamic IP block). > > What are folks using now? > > Thanks! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 12 14:09:15 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:09:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Justin Denick wrote: > I use postfix/CyrusIMAP/Amavisd-new > Amavis provides av and anti-uce using perl plugins. > You can also hookup DKIM and SPF too. > Don't see MySQL , .. or are you using a different database for domains and user? > This would make a great meeting topic! > Compile/configure an fully fledged email server in under 75 minutes. > Yes it would! Lee From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 14:39:14 2014 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:39:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <096B8B6E-5E91-462F-B82A-82BBC8136BB7@gmail.com> I'm a Postgres guy, but I do implement virtual domains in this setup. That's primarily done by postfix configuration. (my hosts/nets). It can be a real virtual host, allowing the same user to have different mailboxes per domain, or the mailboxes can be simulated/aliased to the same or another mapped user who can be local or remote. Cyrus can also be configured to support multiple domains and multiple domain/authentication mechanisms via sasl,SQL,shadow and even PAM. I think PAM implements the same mechanisms, but in its own plugable way. Most open source email software is heavily influenced by perl-- there's always going to be more than one way to do it. And like perl, that can get you into trouble if your not following the directions. -j -- Right to Life of Michigan Director of Information Services 616.446.6492 / jdenick at rtl.org > On Feb 12, 2014, at 2:09 PM, "L. V. Lammert" wrote: > >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Justin Denick wrote: >> >> I use postfix/CyrusIMAP/Amavisd-new >> Amavis provides av and anti-uce using perl plugins. >> You can also hookup DKIM and SPF too. > Don't see MySQL , .. or are you using a different database for domains > and user? > >> This would make a great meeting topic! >> Compile/configure an fully fledged email server in under 75 minutes. > Yes it would! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrick at upmerchants.com Thu Feb 13 08:22:19 2014 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 08:22:19 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Exchange Replacement Opportunity In-Reply-To: References: <52FBB2A0.60609@upmerchants.com> Message-ID: <52FCC70B.9030103@upmerchants.com> On 02/12/2014 12:51 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Patrick Goupell wrote: > >> howtoforge.com has some good tutorials on setting up email with multiple >> domains, users, spam filtering and more. >> >> Just go there and search on "email virtual users domains". >> >> There are tutorials for .deb and .rpm baed distributrions. >> > Interesting, .. thanks! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > If you feel real ambitious then you could combine the email filter appliance (www.efa-project.org) with one of the tutorial / prijects from howtoforge.com. howtoforge.com has a tutorial called "the perfect spam snake" that does the same thing the efa project does. -- Patrick Goupell Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ Income taxes? Find out at http://www.whatistaxed.com From justin.denick at gmail.com Thu Feb 13 10:44:26 2014 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:44:26 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] chew on this and tell me what you think Message-ID: I?m willing to host an event focused on installing and configuring an E-Mail Server using: Postfix CyrusIMAP CyrusSASL Amavisd-new ClamAV Spamassassin DKIM SPF To promote a more thorough understanding, maybe we could split this into a 2-3 part series. Part 1 ? Get it up and running Part 2 ? Enhanced Email Authentication with DKIM and SPF Part 3 ? Virtual Domain Configuration (Amavis, CyrusIMAP, Postfix) I have a small office with a conference room large enough for 20-25, enough bandwidth and plenty of hardware. I can probably get some money for pizza/drinks too, but help with that would be greatly appreciated. I?d be willing to document and test the procedures prior to the meeting/s/. Unless of course the group wants to do it with a package manager? a good idea when the CLI-fu is not strong. Each of the software compiles cleanly just about everywhere. Perl is perl and Python is not, but if we mind the README, all should go well. Ideally, this event would be held when the weather is warmer. My office is near Lamar Park and it would be kewl if we had a LUG frisbee golf tourney to follow. -j -- Justin Denick justin.denick at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From godwin at grandrapids-lug.org Mon Feb 17 18:35:25 2014 From: godwin at grandrapids-lug.org (Godwin) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:35:25 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] chew on this and tell me what you think In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > I'm willing to host an event focused on installing and configuring an > E-Mail Server using: > > Postfix > CyrusIMAP > CyrusSASL > Amavisd-new > ClamAV > Spamassassin > DKIM > SPF > > To promote a more thorough understanding, maybe we could split this into a > 2-3 part series. > > Part 1 -- Get it up and running > > Part 2 -- Enhanced Email Authentication with DKIM and SPF > > Part 3 -- Virtual Domain Configuration (Amavis, CyrusIMAP, Postfix) > > > I have a small office with a conference room large enough for 20-25, > enough bandwidth and plenty of hardware. I can probably get some money for > pizza/drinks too, but help with that would be greatly appreciated. > > I'd be willing to document and test the procedures prior to the > meeting/s/. > > Unless of course the group wants to do it with a package manager-- a good > idea when the CLI-fu is not strong. > > Each of the software compiles cleanly just about everywhere. > Perl is perl and Python is not, but if we mind the README, all should go > well. > > Ideally, this event would be held when the weather is warmer. My office is > near Lamar Park and it would be kewl if we had a LUG frisbee golf tourney > to follow. > > > > > > > -j > -- > Justin Denick > justin.denick at gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Tue Feb 18 15:35:01 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:35:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Extensions VOIP Message-ID: If we have a VOIP server inhouse, .. would a remote extension require an actual hardware VPN, or are the other options? TIA! Lee From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 15:41:12 2014 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 15:41:12 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Extensions VOIP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76139BB7-563F-459D-AE83-EE09DA686611@gmail.com> I run remote VoIP using mitel equipment. These devices implement their own VPN with the phone system. I just use iptables to forward the traffic. -j -- Right to Life of Michigan Director of Information Services 616.446.6492 / jdenick at rtl.org > On Feb 18, 2014, at 3:35 PM, "L. V. Lammert" wrote: > > If we have a VOIP server inhouse, .. would a remote extension require an > actual hardware VPN, or are the other options? > > TIA! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pilcheck at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 17:04:15 2014 From: pilcheck at gmail.com (Dan Pilcheck) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:04:15 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Extensions VOIP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lee, Our remote sites are connected via OpenVPN tunnels. (between the remote's UBNT EdgeRouter Lite and our Untangle at the main office). This allows our remote extensions to appear as local endpoints to the PBX. Honestly, this has worked _much_ better than expected and saved some real headaches dealing with SIP, RTP, NAT and security. We are considering letting an agent or two work from home, so I find myself in your position also. Softphones over the vpn tunnel (split or full) work great for our Windows and Android clients. However, our old Polycom's aren't as flexible and would need a vpn appliance somewhere in between. HTH, -- Dan On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:35 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > If we have a VOIP server inhouse, .. would a remote extension require an > actual hardware VPN, or are the other options? > > TIA! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Who is to say that the next step in evolution is not a statistical chance but rather a by-product of our own will? That from here on out, nature stops deciding who survives and who doesn't, but our own decisions? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 19:17:43 2014 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:17:43 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Extensions VOIP In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <5BFABAD3-F530-42F3-AFAE-164CF29FF9A2@gmail.com> +1 for OpenVPN That's some sweet software. -j -- Right to Life of Michigan Director of Information Services 616.446.6492 / jdenick at rtl.org > On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Dan Pilcheck wrote: > > Lee, > Our remote sites are connected via OpenVPN tunnels. (between the remote's UBNT EdgeRouter Lite and our Untangle at the main office). > This allows our remote extensions to appear as local endpoints to the PBX. > Honestly, this has worked _much_ better than expected and saved some real headaches dealing with SIP, RTP, NAT and security. > > We are considering letting an agent or two work from home, so I find myself in your position also. > > Softphones over the vpn tunnel (split or full) work great for our Windows and Android clients. > However, our old Polycom's aren't as flexible and would need a vpn appliance somewhere in between. > > > HTH, > > -- Dan > >> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:35 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: >> If we have a VOIP server inhouse, .. would a remote extension require an >> actual hardware VPN, or are the other options? >> >> TIA! >> >> Lee >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > -- > Who is to say that the next step in evolution is not a statistical chance but rather a by-product of our own will? > That from here on out, nature stops deciding who survives and who doesn't, but our own decisions? > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrick at upmerchants.com Tue Feb 18 19:21:07 2014 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:21:07 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Extensions VOIP In-Reply-To: <5BFABAD3-F530-42F3-AFAE-164CF29FF9A2@gmail.com> References:

<5BFABAD3-F530-42F3-AFAE-164CF29FF9A2@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5303F8F3.2050701@upmerchants.com> Have you seen / heard of softether? I recommend you take a look at it: www.softether.org On 02/18/2014 07:17 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > +1 for OpenVPN > That's some sweet software. > > -j > > > -- > > Right to Life of Michigan > > Director of Information Services > 616.446.6492 / jdenick at rtl.org > > > On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Dan Pilcheck > wrote: > >> Lee, >> Our remote sites are connected via OpenVPN tunnels. (between the >> remote's UBNT EdgeRouter Lite and our Untangle at the main office). >> This allows our remote extensions to appear as local endpoints to the >> PBX. >> Honestly, this has worked _much_ better than expected and saved some >> real headaches dealing with SIP, RTP, NAT and security. >> >> We are considering letting an agent or two work from home, so I find >> myself in your position also. >> >> Softphones over the vpn tunnel (split or full) work great for our >> Windows and Android clients. >> However, our old Polycom's aren't as flexible and would need a vpn >> appliance somewhere in between. >> >> >> HTH, >> >> -- Dan >> >> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:35 PM, L. V. Lammert > > wrote: >> >> If we have a VOIP server inhouse, .. would a remote extension >> require an >> actual hardware VPN, or are the other options? >> >> TIA! >> >> Lee >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Who is to say that the next step in evolution is not a statistical >> chance but rather a by-product of our own will? >> That from here on out, nature stops deciding who survives and who >> doesn't, but our own decisions? >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -- Patrick Goupell Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ Income taxes? Find out at http://www.whatistaxed.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 19:52:50 2014 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:52:50 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Extensions VOIP In-Reply-To: <5303F8F3.2050701@upmerchants.com> References:

<5BFABAD3-F530-42F3-AFAE-164CF29FF9A2@gmail.com> <5303F8F3.2050701@upmerchants.com> Message-ID: <0E12B33E-F564-4ADB-9F44-1B50A1FF66FF@gmail.com> That does pretty nice. It's platform agnostic, so I'll definitely take a peek. I looked at the direct comparison chart to OpenVPN and found some contradictions to what most OpenVPN users know to be true. I think the speed comparisons could be a little exaggerated. -j -- Right to Life of Michigan Director of Information Services 616.446.6492 / jdenick at rtl.org > On Feb 18, 2014, at 7:21 PM, Patrick Goupell wrote: > > Have you seen / heard of softether? > > I recommend you take a look at it: www.softether.org > > >> On 02/18/2014 07:17 PM, Justin Denick wrote: >> +1 for OpenVPN >> That's some sweet software. >> >> -j >> >> -- >> >> Right to Life of Michigan >> Director of Information Services >> 616.446.6492 / jdenick at rtl.org >> >> >> On Feb 18, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Dan Pilcheck wrote: >> >>> Lee, >>> Our remote sites are connected via OpenVPN tunnels. (between the remote's UBNT EdgeRouter Lite and our Untangle at the main office). >>> This allows our remote extensions to appear as local endpoints to the PBX. >>> Honestly, this has worked _much_ better than expected and saved some real headaches dealing with SIP, RTP, NAT and security. >>> >>> We are considering letting an agent or two work from home, so I find myself in your position also. >>> >>> Softphones over the vpn tunnel (split or full) work great for our Windows and Android clients. >>> However, our old Polycom's aren't as flexible and would need a vpn appliance somewhere in between. >>> >>> >>> HTH, >>> >>> -- Dan >>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:35 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: >>>> If we have a VOIP server inhouse, .. would a remote extension require an >>>> actual hardware VPN, or are the other options? >>>> >>>> TIA! >>>> >>>> Lee >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> grlug mailing list >>>> grlug at grlug.org >>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Who is to say that the next step in evolution is not a statistical chance but rather a by-product of our own will? >>> That from here on out, nature stops deciding who survives and who doesn't, but our own decisions? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > -- > Patrick Goupell > > Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ > Income taxes? Find out at http://www.whatistaxed.com > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From megadave at gmail.com Tue Feb 18 22:41:34 2014 From: megadave at gmail.com (Dave Chiodo) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:41:34 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Extensions VOIP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: VO "IP".. IP is IP. it does not matter what kind of underlying network infrastructure, if it can pass IP packets between the two endpoints, has sufficient bandwidth and low enough latency, and does not block the specific port numbers or service types in use, it will work. On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 3:35 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > If we have a VOIP server inhouse, .. would a remote extension require an > actual hardware VPN, or are the other options? > > TIA! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Wed Feb 26 10:28:02 2014 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:28:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: [GRLUG] Current UI dev enviornments Message-ID: Looking at a project that would be well suited to C++, .. but it's been years since I looked at environments & frameworks. Is Qt still the most widely supported? This project would use OpenCV for video analysis, so an environment that is easily useble in a test/debug mode would be desirable. TIA! Lee From casey at grlug.org Wed Feb 26 16:23:14 2014 From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:23:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] MAKER Event Message-ID: What's Goin On??? THIS!!!! On behalf of the Makers community in Grand Rapids, I would like to invite you to a special event on March 7th. Attached please find our invitation to a screening and discussion about IF YOU BUILD IT. I am pleased to share that Dale Dougherty, founder of Maker Media, will be a special guest and participant for the evening. Our organizing group would additionally like to invite you to a reception in advance of the screening for a discussion about the possibility of starting a Makers-focused charter school in the Grand Rapids community. We are in the process of garnering community support and ideas for this K-12 school and would value your input as we continue exploring this exciting opportunity with Maker Media, Mosaica Education and Grand Valley State University. SPECIAL RECEPTION = 5:00pm at Start Garden (50 Louis Street) Please RSVP for the reception only here. FILM SCREENING = 7:00pm at UICA (2 Fulton West) Please additionally RSVP for the film screening here. And please be sure to print your ticket in advance! Both events are limited in number, so we encourage you to RSVP right away. Casey DuBois 616-808-6942 casey at grlug.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: