From knightperson at zuzax.com  Sat Oct  5 20:15:23 2013
From: knightperson at zuzax.com (Mike Williams)
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2013 20:15:23 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
Message-ID: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>

I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that 
works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box 
of some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router 
duties, simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any 
recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?

The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a 
stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but 
it's so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and 
the IPv6 tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear 
Stora with a mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews 
might have suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is 
abysmal.


From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 14:35:33 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 14:35:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] weird initscript issue
Message-ID: <CAFP7kev-EJOgwn39bE0OB4RGn2d8TZd7Wz5Fb3NjvqO7t6Oaxg@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I have an initscript which is doing something very strange.

It has an "if, elif, else" clause, and for some reason, even though
the "elif" code is being run, it is ALSO running the "else" code.

This is on a Debian Squeeze system.

Anyone got any clue what is going on here?


(snip)

      if [ "$PROCLIST" ] && kill -0 $PROCLIST 2>/dev/null; then
        echo "*** already ***"
        echo -n "[Already running: $file] "
      elif $DAEMON $ARGS; then
        echo "*** started ***"
        echo $DAEMON : $ARGS
        echo -n "[* Started: $file] "
      else
        echo "*** failed ***"
        echo "[Failed: $file]"
        echo "You should check that you have specified the pid= in you
configuration file"
        exit 1
      fi

(snip)

And here is the output from running it:

*** started ***
/usr/bin/stunnel4 : /etc/stunnel/pop3.conf
[* Started: /etc/stunnel/pop3.conf] *** failed ***
[Failed: /etc/stunnel/pop3s.conf]
You should check that you have specified the pid= in you configuration file

From mrj at plorb.com  Sun Oct  6 15:00:55 2013
From: mrj at plorb.com (Jeff DeFouw)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 15:00:55 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] weird initscript issue
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7kev-EJOgwn39bE0OB4RGn2d8TZd7Wz5Fb3NjvqO7t6Oaxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFP7kev-EJOgwn39bE0OB4RGn2d8TZd7Wz5Fb3NjvqO7t6Oaxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131006190055.GA4035@blorp.plorb.com>

On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 02:35:33PM -0400, megadave wrote:
> Ok, I have an initscript which is doing something very strange.
> 
> It has an "if, elif, else" clause, and for some reason, even though
> the "elif" code is being run, it is ALSO running the "else" code.

> And here is the output from running it:
> 
> *** started ***
> /usr/bin/stunnel4 : /etc/stunnel/pop3.conf
> [* Started: /etc/stunnel/pop3.conf] *** failed ***
> [Failed: /etc/stunnel/pop3s.conf]
> You should check that you have specified the pid= in you configuration file

Those are two separate runs of your script with different values for the 
file variable:

file=/etc/stunnel/pop3.conf

file=/etc/stunnel/pop3s.conf

-- 
Jeff DeFouw <mrj at plorb.com>

From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 15:11:32 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 15:11:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] weird initscript issue
In-Reply-To: <20131006190055.GA4035@blorp.plorb.com>
References: <CAFP7kev-EJOgwn39bE0OB4RGn2d8TZd7Wz5Fb3NjvqO7t6Oaxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131006190055.GA4035@blorp.plorb.com>
Message-ID: <CAFP7ketGAGJxifWaz_nHmWL9DayfuOTjTQ46=tytL+EQ4udf6A@mail.gmail.com>

Oh sheesh. Im a maroon.. Thanks...

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Jeff DeFouw <mrj at plorb.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 06, 2013 at 02:35:33PM -0400, megadave wrote:
>> Ok, I have an initscript which is doing something very strange.
>>
>> It has an "if, elif, else" clause, and for some reason, even though
>> the "elif" code is being run, it is ALSO running the "else" code.
>
>> And here is the output from running it:
>>
>> *** started ***
>> /usr/bin/stunnel4 : /etc/stunnel/pop3.conf
>> [* Started: /etc/stunnel/pop3.conf] *** failed ***
>> [Failed: /etc/stunnel/pop3s.conf]
>> You should check that you have specified the pid= in you configuration file
>
> Those are two separate runs of your script with different values for the
> file variable:
>
> file=/etc/stunnel/pop3.conf
>
> file=/etc/stunnel/pop3s.conf
>
> --
> Jeff DeFouw <mrj at plorb.com>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From leapole at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 16:32:15 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (josh)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:32:15 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
Message-ID: <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>

Mike,

I would be very interested in your final choice on this.

I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it run debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.

Top options so far are 

Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata and a pci-express
https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B

for complete fanless get a power supply like this  http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT and a notebook power brick.

-- I think that is exactly what your looking for..

Other options

an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php

or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh when researching that
http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.

There are many other options but this is a quick list.

Josh
On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:

> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box of some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties, simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
> 
> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but it's so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the IPv6 tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

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From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 16:36:15 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 16:36:15 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>

Another option might be a slightly older laptop, at least for the
"router" and "wifi AP" parts.

wifi "master" support can be hit or miss, but as long as its got USB
you could add a known supported one.

one benefit is that as long as it has a working battery, it will stay
up for short power outages.

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:32 PM, josh <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
>
> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it run
> debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
>
> Top options so far are
>
> Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata and a
> pci-express
> https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B
>
> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
> http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT and a notebook power brick.
>
> -- I think that is exactly what your looking for..
>
> Other options
>
> an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
> http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php
>
> or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh
> when researching that
> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.
>
> There are many other options but this is a quick list.
>
> Josh
>
> On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>
> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that
> works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box of
> some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties,
> simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any
> recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
>
> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a
> stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but it's
> so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the IPv6
> tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a
> mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have
> suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From knightperson at zuzax.com  Sun Oct  6 17:03:59 2013
From: knightperson at zuzax.com (Mike Williams)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:03:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>

Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about 
with putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching 
the firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the 
Internet. I think the best way to minimize that risk is to virtualize 
one of them. Security-wise it would be best to run the router on the 
host and virtualize the storage, but the other way would be faster. In 
some cases it's possible to directly assign a network adapter to a 
virtual machine, which should let me run the wireless and outside 
network in the VM and leave the host for the internal. Hmm, that would 
have all wifi file sharing going through the VM, but at least disk 
access would be from the host.

For OS, I've been experimenting with Arch Linux, but OpenWRT has been 
compiled for desktop chips, and that might work well for at least the 
router OS, but I'd rather have the same one on both if possible.

The hardest part is hardware, I think, as I'm pretty cheap, but I don't 
want to end up underspending and having to do it again.

On 10/06/2013 04:36 PM, megadave wrote:
> Another option might be a slightly older laptop, at least for the
> "router" and "wifi AP" parts.
>
> wifi "master" support can be hit or miss, but as long as its got USB
> you could add a known supported one.
>
> one benefit is that as long as it has a working battery, it will stay
> up for short power outages.
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:32 PM, josh <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
>>
>> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it run
>> debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
>>
>> Top options so far are
>>
>> Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata and a
>> pci-express
>> https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B
>>
>> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
>> http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT and a notebook power brick.
>>
>> -- I think that is exactly what your looking for..
>>
>> Other options
>>
>> an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
>> http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php
>>
>> or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh
>> when researching that
>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.
>>
>> There are many other options but this is a quick list.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that
>> works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box of
>> some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties,
>> simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any
>> recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
>>
>> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a
>> stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but it's
>> so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the IPv6
>> tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a
>> mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have
>> suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From brousch at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 17:07:31 2013
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 17:07:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>

Call me old fashioned or paranoid, but I prefer that my firewall/router be
a separate piece of hardware from everything else. It just feels good to
have an actual physical separation there.
On Oct 6, 2013 5:04 PM, "Mike Williams" <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:

> Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about with
> putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching the
> firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the Internet. I
> think the best way to minimize that risk is to virtualize one of them.
> Security-wise it would be best to run the router on the host and virtualize
> the storage, but the other way would be faster. In some cases it's possible
> to directly assign a network adapter to a virtual machine, which should let
> me run the wireless and outside network in the VM and leave the host for
> the internal. Hmm, that would have all wifi file sharing going through the
> VM, but at least disk access would be from the host.
>
> For OS, I've been experimenting with Arch Linux, but OpenWRT has been
> compiled for desktop chips, and that might work well for at least the
> router OS, but I'd rather have the same one on both if possible.
>
> The hardest part is hardware, I think, as I'm pretty cheap, but I don't
> want to end up underspending and having to do it again.
>
> On 10/06/2013 04:36 PM, megadave wrote:
>
>> Another option might be a slightly older laptop, at least for the
>> "router" and "wifi AP" parts.
>>
>> wifi "master" support can be hit or miss, but as long as its got USB
>> you could add a known supported one.
>>
>> one benefit is that as long as it has a working battery, it will stay
>> up for short power outages.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:32 PM, josh <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
>>>
>>> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it
>>> run
>>> debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
>>>
>>> Top options so far are
>>>
>>> Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata
>>> and a
>>> pci-express
>>> https://www.superbiiz.com/**detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B<https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B>
>>>
>>> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
>>> http://www.mini-box.com/**picoPSU-150-XT<http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT>and a notebook power brick.
>>>
>>> -- I think that is exactly what your looking for..
>>>
>>> Other options
>>>
>>> an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
>>> http://www.hardkernel.com/**renewal_2011/products/prdt_**info.php<http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php>
>>>
>>> or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh
>>> when researching that
>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.
>>>
>>> There are many other options but this is a quick list.
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that
>>> works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box of
>>> some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties,
>>> simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any
>>> recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
>>>
>>> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a
>>> stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but
>>> it's
>>> so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the
>>> IPv6
>>> tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a
>>> mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have
>>> suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>
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From leapole at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 17:36:33 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 14:36:33 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
 <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F1492AE-252D-4CBF-AA8E-4DE635DE33EB@gmail.com>

I agree with you Ben.  I am currently using the super micro board for a file server. About to get another for a router due to not finding anything else that will run Debian with 2 Ethernet ports

> On Oct 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Call me old fashioned or paranoid, but I prefer that my firewall/router be a separate piece of hardware from everything else. It just feels good to have an actual physical separation there.
> 
>> On Oct 6, 2013 5:04 PM, "Mike Williams" <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>> Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about with putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching the firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the Internet. I think the best way to minimize that risk is to virtualize one of them. Security-wise it would be best to run the router on the host and virtualize the storage, but the other way would be faster. In some cases it's possible to directly assign a network adapter to a virtual machine, which should let me run the wireless and outside network in the VM and leave the host for the internal. Hmm, that would have all wifi file sharing going through the VM, but at least disk access would be from the host.
>> 
>> For OS, I've been experimenting with Arch Linux, but OpenWRT has been compiled for desktop chips, and that might work well for at least the router OS, but I'd rather have the same one on both if possible.
>> 
>> The hardest part is hardware, I think, as I'm pretty cheap, but I don't want to end up underspending and having to do it again.
>> 
>>> On 10/06/2013 04:36 PM, megadave wrote:
>>> Another option might be a slightly older laptop, at least for the
>>> "router" and "wifi AP" parts.
>>> 
>>> wifi "master" support can be hit or miss, but as long as its got USB
>>> you could add a known supported one.
>>> 
>>> one benefit is that as long as it has a working battery, it will stay
>>> up for short power outages.
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:32 PM, josh <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
>>>> 
>>>> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it run
>>>> debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
>>>> 
>>>> Top options so far are
>>>> 
>>>> Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata and a
>>>> pci-express
>>>> https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B
>>>> 
>>>> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
>>>> http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT and a notebook power brick.
>>>> 
>>>> -- I think that is exactly what your looking for..
>>>> 
>>>> Other options
>>>> 
>>>> an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
>>>> http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php
>>>> 
>>>> or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh
>>>> when researching that
>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.
>>>> 
>>>> There are many other options but this is a quick list.
>>>> 
>>>> Josh
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that
>>>> works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box of
>>>> some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties,
>>>> simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any
>>>> recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
>>>> 
>>>> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a
>>>> stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but it's
>>>> so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the IPv6
>>>> tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a
>>>> mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have
>>>> suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From lord.drachenblut at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 17:39:37 2013
From: lord.drachenblut at gmail.com (Lord Drachenblut)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:39:37 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <1F1492AE-252D-4CBF-AA8E-4DE635DE33EB@gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
 <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1F1492AE-252D-4CBF-AA8E-4DE635DE33EB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG58yKsJAS-pGRrsNMKS1-PXpNYF8wNZhPo72g9ueVbcG-EgTg@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps one of these products would make for a great router

http://soekris.com/products.html
On Oct 6, 2013 5:36 PM, "Josh" <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree with you Ben.  I am currently using the super micro board for a
> file server. About to get another for a router due to not finding anything
> else that will run Debian with 2 Ethernet ports
>
> On Oct 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Call me old fashioned or paranoid, but I prefer that my firewall/router be
> a separate piece of hardware from everything else. It just feels good to
> have an actual physical separation there.
> On Oct 6, 2013 5:04 PM, "Mike Williams" <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>
>> Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about
>> with putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching
>> the firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the Internet.
>> I think the best way to minimize that risk is to virtualize one of them.
>> Security-wise it would be best to run the router on the host and virtualize
>> the storage, but the other way would be faster. In some cases it's possible
>> to directly assign a network adapter to a virtual machine, which should let
>> me run the wireless and outside network in the VM and leave the host for
>> the internal. Hmm, that would have all wifi file sharing going through the
>> VM, but at least disk access would be from the host.
>>
>> For OS, I've been experimenting with Arch Linux, but OpenWRT has been
>> compiled for desktop chips, and that might work well for at least the
>> router OS, but I'd rather have the same one on both if possible.
>>
>> The hardest part is hardware, I think, as I'm pretty cheap, but I don't
>> want to end up underspending and having to do it again.
>>
>> On 10/06/2013 04:36 PM, megadave wrote:
>>
>>> Another option might be a slightly older laptop, at least for the
>>> "router" and "wifi AP" parts.
>>>
>>> wifi "master" support can be hit or miss, but as long as its got USB
>>> you could add a known supported one.
>>>
>>> one benefit is that as long as it has a working battery, it will stay
>>> up for short power outages.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:32 PM, josh <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
>>>>
>>>> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it
>>>> run
>>>> debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
>>>>
>>>> Top options so far are
>>>>
>>>> Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata
>>>> and a
>>>> pci-express
>>>> https://www.superbiiz.com/**detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B<https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B>
>>>>
>>>> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
>>>> http://www.mini-box.com/**picoPSU-150-XT<http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT>and a notebook power brick.
>>>>
>>>> -- I think that is exactly what your looking for..
>>>>
>>>> Other options
>>>>
>>>> an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
>>>> http://www.hardkernel.com/**renewal_2011/products/prdt_**info.php<http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php>
>>>>
>>>> or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh
>>>> when researching that
>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.
>>>>
>>>> There are many other options but this is a quick list.
>>>>
>>>> Josh
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that
>>>> works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box
>>>> of
>>>> some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties,
>>>> simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any
>>>> recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
>>>>
>>>> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a
>>>> stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but
>>>> it's
>>>> so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the
>>>> IPv6
>>>> tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a
>>>> mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have
>>>> suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From leapole at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 17:40:07 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 14:40:07 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
 <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86A7DB06-6A90-44BA-8111-77EAE2C20411@gmail.com>

Meant to ask what you are currently using?

> On Oct 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Call me old fashioned or paranoid, but I prefer that my firewall/router be a separate piece of hardware from everything else. It just feels good to have an actual physical separation there.
> 
>> On Oct 6, 2013 5:04 PM, "Mike Williams" <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>> Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about with putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching the firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the Internet. I think the best way to minimize that risk is to virtualize one of them. Security-wise it would be best to run the router on the host and virtualize the storage, but the other way would be faster. In some cases it's possible to directly assign a network adapter to a virtual machine, which should let me run the wireless and outside network in the VM and leave the host for the internal. Hmm, that would have all wifi file sharing going through the VM, but at least disk access would be from the host.
>> 
>> For OS, I've been experimenting with Arch Linux, but OpenWRT has been compiled for desktop chips, and that might work well for at least the router OS, but I'd rather have the same one on both if possible.
>> 
>> The hardest part is hardware, I think, as I'm pretty cheap, but I don't want to end up underspending and having to do it again.
>> 
>>> On 10/06/2013 04:36 PM, megadave wrote:
>>> Another option might be a slightly older laptop, at least for the
>>> "router" and "wifi AP" parts.
>>> 
>>> wifi "master" support can be hit or miss, but as long as its got USB
>>> you could add a known supported one.
>>> 
>>> one benefit is that as long as it has a working battery, it will stay
>>> up for short power outages.
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:32 PM, josh <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
>>>> 
>>>> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it run
>>>> debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
>>>> 
>>>> Top options so far are
>>>> 
>>>> Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata and a
>>>> pci-express
>>>> https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B
>>>> 
>>>> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
>>>> http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT and a notebook power brick.
>>>> 
>>>> -- I think that is exactly what your looking for..
>>>> 
>>>> Other options
>>>> 
>>>> an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
>>>> http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php
>>>> 
>>>> or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh
>>>> when researching that
>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.
>>>> 
>>>> There are many other options but this is a quick list.
>>>> 
>>>> Josh
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that
>>>> works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box of
>>>> some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties,
>>>> simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any
>>>> recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
>>>> 
>>>> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a
>>>> stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but it's
>>>> so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the IPv6
>>>> tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a
>>>> mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have
>>>> suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Oct  6 17:44:21 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:44:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] weird initscript issue
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7ketGAGJxifWaz_nHmWL9DayfuOTjTQ46=tytL+EQ4udf6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFP7kev-EJOgwn39bE0OB4RGn2d8TZd7Wz5Fb3NjvqO7t6Oaxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131006190055.GA4035@blorp.plorb.com>
 <CAFP7ketGAGJxifWaz_nHmWL9DayfuOTjTQ46=tytL+EQ4udf6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1381095861.2205.0.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 15:11 -0400, megadave wrote:
> Oh sheesh. Im a maroon.. Thanks...

Don't sweat it;  been there, done that.

> > Those are two separate runs of your script with different values for the
> > file variable:

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From leapole at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 17:50:47 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 14:50:47 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <CAG58yKsJAS-pGRrsNMKS1-PXpNYF8wNZhPo72g9ueVbcG-EgTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
 <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1F1492AE-252D-4CBF-AA8E-4DE635DE33EB@gmail.com>
 <CAG58yKsJAS-pGRrsNMKS1-PXpNYF8wNZhPo72g9ueVbcG-EgTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CFF77C0-B0F0-4869-86F4-4FA9CA34F98E@gmail.com>

Going to pick one of those I think when I get home

> On Oct 6, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Lord Drachenblut <lord.drachenblut at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps one of these products would make for a great router
> 
> http://soekris.com/products.html
> 
>> On Oct 6, 2013 5:36 PM, "Josh" <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree with you Ben.  I am currently using the super micro board for a file server. About to get another for a router due to not finding anything else that will run Debian with 2 Ethernet ports
>> 
>>> On Oct 6, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Call me old fashioned or paranoid, but I prefer that my firewall/router be a separate piece of hardware from everything else. It just feels good to have an actual physical separation there.
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 6, 2013 5:04 PM, "Mike Williams" <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>>>> Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about with putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching the firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the Internet. I think the best way to minimize that risk is to virtualize one of them. Security-wise it would be best to run the router on the host and virtualize the storage, but the other way would be faster. In some cases it's possible to directly assign a network adapter to a virtual machine, which should let me run the wireless and outside network in the VM and leave the host for the internal. Hmm, that would have all wifi file sharing going through the VM, but at least disk access would be from the host.
>>>> 
>>>> For OS, I've been experimenting with Arch Linux, but OpenWRT has been compiled for desktop chips, and that might work well for at least the router OS, but I'd rather have the same one on both if possible.
>>>> 
>>>> The hardest part is hardware, I think, as I'm pretty cheap, but I don't want to end up underspending and having to do it again.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10/06/2013 04:36 PM, megadave wrote:
>>>>> Another option might be a slightly older laptop, at least for the
>>>>> "router" and "wifi AP" parts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> wifi "master" support can be hit or miss, but as long as its got USB
>>>>> you could add a known supported one.
>>>>> 
>>>>> one benefit is that as long as it has a working battery, it will stay
>>>>> up for short power outages.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 4:32 PM, josh <leapole at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it run
>>>>>> debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Top options so far are
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Choice -- remote management - KVM over IP - 2 ethernet ports - 6 sata and a
>>>>>> pci-express
>>>>>> https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPF5B
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
>>>>>> http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT and a notebook power brick.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- I think that is exactly what your looking for..
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Other options
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> an arm board -- need to add usb ethernet
>>>>>> http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> or one of these embedded setups -- it says debian pkgs but its been eehh
>>>>>> when researching that
>>>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax  -- there is a 100 buck version.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are many other options but this is a quick list.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 5, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm looking at replacing my house router and NAS box with something that
>>>>>> works a little better. I'm thinking a small, low power consumption box of
>>>>>> some kind, hopefully something that can handle wireless router duties,
>>>>>> simple file sharing and media streaming, and an IPv6 tunnel. Any
>>>>>> recommendations on hardware specs or distribution to make this out of?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The current setup that I would be replacing is an embedded router and a
>>>>>> stand-alone NAS box. The router is an old WRT54GS running OpenWRT, but it's
>>>>>> so starved for memory that it can't handle above a 2.4 kernel, and the IPv6
>>>>>> tunnel doesn't work very reliably. The NAS box is a Netgear Stora with a
>>>>>> mirrored pair of 2TB drives, but despite what some reviews might have
>>>>>> suggested, performance using software RAID at that size is abysmal.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Oct  6 17:49:21 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:49:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1381096161.2205.4.camel@linux-86wr.site>


> I would be very interested in your final choice on this.
> I am also currently looking for a home router setup.  I really want it
> run debian or pfsense, be fanless and take little to no power.
> for complete fanless get a power supply like this
>  http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT and a notebook power brick.

I don't find such things to be worth the inevitable fuss.  A laptop a
couple of years old is (a) way beefy enough to do anything you want (b)
has excellent power management (c) is standard[-ish, at least] (d) has a
built-in UPS and (e) both ethernet and wireless networking.  

Put the OS on SSD internal to the laptop and the data on drives with
power management, let the display turn off, and your power consumption
will be low and you'll still be able to do anything you want.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Oct  6 17:51:15 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:51:15 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
Message-ID: <1381096275.2205.6.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 17:03 -0400, Mike Williams wrote:
> Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about 
> with putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching 
> the firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the 
> Internet.

Or botching and then it just not working [more likely].

Let the router be the router and the server be the server.  The WRT when
left to just packet switching is probably more than capable; if not just
get a better router.

Combining the router and the server just makes management a head-ache
with lots of little catch-22 order-of-operation problems.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Oct  6 17:51:55 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:51:55 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com>
 <CAOPHfB3vPUUW1Hh_+-yU0_twtcwzrBw1tQkfsGqLe+EA2E4xLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1381096315.2205.7.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 17:07 -0400, Ben Rousch wrote:
> Call me old fashioned or paranoid, but I prefer that my
> firewall/router be a separate piece of hardware from everything else.
> It just feels good to have an actual physical separation there.

And separation yields a fruitful bounty of simplicity.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From lvl at omnitec.net  Sun Oct  6 18:53:33 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 17:53:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

When one does fstat [lsof] on a BSD box, it returns detailed information
about open files, e.g.:

lvl      ssh        19533    4* internet stream tcp 0xd9041800 \
206.197.251.191:3160 --> 206.197.251.252:2206

How does one get similar info on Linux? One of our workgroup servers is
opening ssh connections to a BSD server and leaving them open, but I
cannot figure out what is causing them. Need to track back the IP to a
PID/process on the Linux box for a clue.

	TIA!

	Lee

From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 19:08:16 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:08:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>

lsof is available for linux. You might need to install it from your
package manager.

For Debian (and probably Ubuntu) "apt-get install lsof"



On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 6:53 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> When one does fstat [lsof] on a BSD box, it returns detailed information
> about open files, e.g.:
>
> lvl      ssh        19533    4* internet stream tcp 0xd9041800 \
> 206.197.251.191:3160 --> 206.197.251.252:2206
>
> How does one get similar info on Linux? One of our workgroup servers is
> opening ssh connections to a BSD server and leaving them open, but I
> cannot figure out what is causing them. Need to track back the IP to a
> PID/process on the Linux box for a clue.
>
>         TIA!
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 19:13:30 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:13:30 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFP7kes2qfom5gchCoSaVxWOPyGxGw7PAcS56B2=6iGcQdG25A@mail.gmail.com>

er, sorry, add a "sudo" in there for 'Bunt

As an *nix old-timer, I regularly work directly at the root # prompt
and don't need to think about stuff like that :)

Now if you'll pardon me, I have to go grease the bearings on my hard drives.....

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 7:08 PM, megadave <megadave at gmail.com> wrote:
> lsof is available for linux. You might need to install it from your
> package manager.
>
> For Debian (and probably Ubuntu) "apt-get install lsof"
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 6:53 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
>> When one does fstat [lsof] on a BSD box, it returns detailed information
>> about open files, e.g.:
>>
>> lvl      ssh        19533    4* internet stream tcp 0xd9041800 \
>> 206.197.251.191:3160 --> 206.197.251.252:2206
>>
>> How does one get similar info on Linux? One of our workgroup servers is
>> opening ssh connections to a BSD server and leaving them open, but I
>> cannot figure out what is causing them. Need to track back the IP to a
>> PID/process on the Linux box for a clue.
>>
>>         TIA!
>>
>>         Lee
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From lvl at omnitec.net  Sun Oct  6 19:14:49 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 18:14:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, megadave wrote:

> lsof is available for linux. You might need to install it from your
> package manager.
>
Sorry, I was referring to fstat being the eqivalent of lsof, but providing
more informtion. lsof is on the Linux box, just cannot see similar data.

	Lee

From robert.citek at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 19:34:42 2013
From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:34:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAKFjdm6j2TvW9McHpJRrXn4qdpZciS5KoEZfDMowUfd=8oinxQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sunday, October 6, 2013, L. V. Lammert wrote:

> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, megadave wrote:
>
> > lsof is available for linux. You might need to install it from your
> > package manager.
> >
> Sorry, I was referring to fstat being the eqivalent of lsof, but providing
> more informtion. lsof is on the Linux box, just cannot see similar data.
>
>         Lee


Try:

lsof -p {pid of ssh connection}

That will return a list of open everything (files, pipes, sockets, tcp
connections, etc.) for that pid.

Regards,
- Robert
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From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 19:35:26 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:35:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAFP7keu5aAwvqGHreia7ypj=GkQun9bUcTYe02OM0qPVCdT4Hg@mail.gmail.com>

I am sure lsof will show you what you need..

You've got some open TCP connections, and want to find which PID
opened them, right?

lsof will show that.

try

lsof -i -n | grep -v LISTEN



On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 7:14 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, megadave wrote:
>
>> lsof is available for linux. You might need to install it from your
>> package manager.
>>
> Sorry, I was referring to fstat being the eqivalent of lsof, but providing
> more informtion. lsof is on the Linux box, just cannot see similar data.
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 19:36:13 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:36:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7keu5aAwvqGHreia7ypj=GkQun9bUcTYe02OM0qPVCdT4Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keu5aAwvqGHreia7ypj=GkQun9bUcTYe02OM0qPVCdT4Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFP7keu79WhE_uk61wP9OSURgg3=1bUviMFn-Yw72WOnYa+ymA@mail.gmail.com>

Or even

lsof -i -n | grep TCP | grep -v LISTEN

On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 7:35 PM, megadave <megadave at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am sure lsof will show you what you need..
>
> You've got some open TCP connections, and want to find which PID
> opened them, right?
>
> lsof will show that.
>
> try
>
> lsof -i -n | grep -v LISTEN
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 7:14 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, megadave wrote:
>>
>>> lsof is available for linux. You might need to install it from your
>>> package manager.
>>>
>> Sorry, I was referring to fstat being the eqivalent of lsof, but providing
>> more informtion. lsof is on the Linux box, just cannot see similar data.
>>
>>         Lee
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Oct  6 20:04:59 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 20:04:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1381104299.2205.11.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 17:53 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> When one does fstat [lsof] on a BSD box, it returns detailed information
> about open files, e.g.:
> lvl      ssh        19533    4* internet stream tcp 0xd9041800 \
> 206.197.251.191:3160 --> 206.197.251.252:2206
> How does one get similar info on Linux? One of our workgroup servers is
> opening ssh connections to a BSD server and leaving them open, but I
> cannot figure out what is causing them. Need to track back the IP to a
> PID/process on the Linux box for a clue.

<http://www.wmmi.net/documents/Debugging2012.pdf>

lsof is 'standard' UNIX.  It works on LINUX, BSD, AIX, Slowaris, etc...

If you want to see details on a specific socket connection then "ss" can
tell you much much more. See slide 20 of 20 from the above link.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Oct  6 20:09:08 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2013 20:09:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7keu79WhE_uk61wP9OSURgg3=1bUviMFn-Yw72WOnYa+ymA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keu5aAwvqGHreia7ypj=GkQun9bUcTYe02OM0qPVCdT4Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7keu79WhE_uk61wP9OSURgg3=1bUviMFn-Yw72WOnYa+ymA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1381104548.2205.15.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 19:36 -0400, megadave wrote:
> Or even
> 
> lsof -i -n | grep TCP | grep -v LISTEN

That is a less than optimal use of lsof.

'netstat --listen --tcp --inet' would be better, or 'netstat --listen
--tcp --net --program --numeric'

or, as netstat is quasi-deprecated, even better to use "ss":

ss --listen --numeric --processes

ss allows very detailed filters can can return scads of information.

ss --listen --numeric --processes  --extended

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From lvl at omnitec.net  Sun Oct  6 20:36:03 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:36:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <CAKFjdm6j2TvW9McHpJRrXn4qdpZciS5KoEZfDMowUfd=8oinxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAKFjdm6j2TvW9McHpJRrXn4qdpZciS5KoEZfDMowUfd=8oinxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061935340.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Robert Citek wrote:

> Try:
>
> lsof -p {pid of ssh connection}
>
> That will return a list of open everything (files, pipes, sockets, tcp
> connections, etc.) for that pid.
>
Unfortunately, no PID is showing for the socket :-(

	Lee
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_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From lvl at omnitec.net  Sun Oct  6 20:45:17 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 19:45:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <1381104548.2205.15.camel@linux-86wr.site>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keu5aAwvqGHreia7ypj=GkQun9bUcTYe02OM0qPVCdT4Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7keu79WhE_uk61wP9OSURgg3=1bUviMFn-Yw72WOnYa+ymA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1381104548.2205.15.camel@linux-86wr.site>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061939210.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> 'netstat --listen --tcp --inet' would be better, or 'netstat --listen
> --tcp --net --program --numeric'
>
Interesting, .. with more checking, I see that there is a connection open
from .252, which spawned a root environment:

lvl      sshd       18593    5* internet stream tcp 0xd9041350
206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:59996
root     sshd        5767    5* internet stream tcp 0xd9041350
206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:59996

Unfortunately, no open port shows on the source machine (.252) at ALL:

# netstat -tanp
Active Internet connections (servers and established)
Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address           Foreign Address         State
PID/Program name
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:2206            0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
2991/sshd
tcp        0     48 206.197.251.252:2206    206.197.251.191:14458
ESTABLISHED 11094/sshd: lvl [pr
tcp        0      0 :::2206                 :::*                    LISTEN
2991/sshd

*Except* for the connection I am using (the 14456). Stranger & stranger!!

	Lee

From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Oct  6 21:16:49 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:16:49 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061939210.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keu5aAwvqGHreia7ypj=GkQun9bUcTYe02OM0qPVCdT4Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7keu79WhE_uk61wP9OSURgg3=1bUviMFn-Yw72WOnYa+ymA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1381104548.2205.15.camel@linux-86wr.site>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061939210.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAFP7kev2kRKf1jFn3BM_=gP+bURx9o0mChv4LVyJWMs29d1VGA@mail.gmail.com>

Are these fully established connections? If not, perhaps they are SYN
attack with a spoofed source address.



On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 8:45 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
>
>> 'netstat --listen --tcp --inet' would be better, or 'netstat --listen
>> --tcp --net --program --numeric'
>>
> Interesting, .. with more checking, I see that there is a connection open
> from .252, which spawned a root environment:
>
> lvl      sshd       18593    5* internet stream tcp 0xd9041350
> 206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:59996
> root     sshd        5767    5* internet stream tcp 0xd9041350
> 206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:59996
>
> Unfortunately, no open port shows on the source machine (.252) at ALL:
>
> # netstat -tanp
> Active Internet connections (servers and established)
> Proto Recv-Q Send-Q Local Address           Foreign Address         State
> PID/Program name
> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:2206            0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
> 2991/sshd
> tcp        0     48 206.197.251.252:2206    206.197.251.191:14458
> ESTABLISHED 11094/sshd: lvl [pr
> tcp        0      0 :::2206                 :::*                    LISTEN
> 2991/sshd
>
> *Except* for the connection I am using (the 14456). Stranger & stranger!!
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From lvl at omnitec.net  Sun Oct  6 22:11:47 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:11:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH connections
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7kev2kRKf1jFn3BM_=gP+bURx9o0mChv4LVyJWMs29d1VGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061748200.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keupqRk3hh1nSk8NbDnw_k9b8uM-9=HHnnYwpxmBNTUVpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061814030.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7keu5aAwvqGHreia7ypj=GkQun9bUcTYe02OM0qPVCdT4Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7keu79WhE_uk61wP9OSURgg3=1bUviMFn-Yw72WOnYa+ymA@mail.gmail.com>
 <1381104548.2205.15.camel@linux-86wr.site>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310061939210.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7kev2kRKf1jFn3BM_=gP+bURx9o0mChv4LVyJWMs29d1VGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310062110211.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013, megadave wrote:

> Are these fully established connections? If not, perhaps they are SYN
> attack with a spoofed source address.
>
Interesting possibility, .. how would one go about delving deeper? Would
it not have to originate somewhere on the local subnet?

	Lee

From knightperson at zuzax.com  Mon Oct  7 12:07:57 2013
From: knightperson at zuzax.com (Mike Williams)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 12:07:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] friends, geeks, linuxheads, lend me your advice!
In-Reply-To: <1381096275.2205.6.camel@linux-86wr.site>
References: <5250AB9B.2070302@zuzax.com>
 <74522141-F282-4FA4-B7AE-78493DED14EB@gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kesmqjf5TtE0erRrMgMKmSQpnA+B3ZDTLwVSdSin8eGZsg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5251D03F.80407@zuzax.com> <1381096275.2205.6.camel@linux-86wr.site>
Message-ID: <5252DC5D.6040806@zuzax.com>

Unfortunately, I would be getting both a new router and a new server 
since neither one of them is really performing well. The router is doing 
well for its age, but it can't handle the IPv6 tunnel reliably. The 
server is just unacceptably slow.

Those Soekris things look like a decent idea, but what would I gain 
above the WRT? Their processor speed is pretty slow even if it's 
slightly better than what I currently have, but I want to have more room 
to grow than that. Particularly for the server, I need to do better. The 
Stora has a 900Mhz or so chip, and performance is still abysmal, so the 
server needs to be a "real computer" of some kind. Since any real 
computer is going to have plenty of resources to run the router also, 
I'd like to do things that way even if it's a pain to initially set up.

On 10/06/2013 05:51 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Sun, 2013-10-06 at 17:03 -0400, Mike Williams wrote:
>> Some research suggested that one of the bigger gotchas to worry about
>> with putting both the router and the storage on the same box is botching
>> the firewall config and leaving the entire filestore open to the
>> Internet.
> Or botching and then it just not working [more likely].
>
> Let the router be the router and the server be the server.  The WRT when
> left to just packet switching is probably more than capable; if not just
> get a better router.
>
> Combining the router and the server just makes management a head-ache
> with lots of little catch-22 order-of-operation problems.
>


From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct  7 15:58:09 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 14:58:09 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

Got one! The Linux box tried to open an ssh connection from 60301 on .252,
.. which leaves the two connections described previously.

On the BSD box:

lvl      sshd       28242    5* internet stream tcp 0xd8fcc7ec 206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:60301
root     sshd        9103    5* internet stream tcp 0xd8fcc7ec 206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:60301

tcpdump shows the connection from .252:

14:28:15.259420 marvel.omnitec.net.60301 > apollo.omnitec.net.2206: S
2950403490:2950403490(0) win 14600 <mss 1460,sackOK,timestamp 405541957
0,nop,wscale 7> (DF)
14:28:15.259723 marvel.omnitec.net.60301 > apollo.omnitec.net.2206: . ack
1733911734 win 115 <nop,nop,timestamp 405541957 3356340392> (DF)

BUT there is no process using 60301 on the Linux box:

# lsof | grep 60301

<blank>

Something is opening a connection and then dropping, .. there is a keypair
for user lvl (me), but with it disabled nothing changed.

Any more thoughts on how to isolate the source on the Linux box?

	Thanks!

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct  7 16:43:15 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:43:15 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>

Check for crons?  Enable network audit logs on selinux?  Flush the
connections on the BSD box and see if they return.
On Oct 7, 2013 3:58 PM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:

> Got one! The Linux box tried to open an ssh connection from 60301 on .252,
> .. which leaves the two connections described previously.
>
> On the BSD box:
>
> lvl      sshd       28242    5* internet stream tcp 0xd8fcc7ec
> 206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:60301
> root     sshd        9103    5* internet stream tcp 0xd8fcc7ec
> 206.197.251.191:2206 <-- 206.197.251.252:60301
>
> tcpdump shows the connection from .252:
>
> 14:28:15.259420 marvel.omnitec.net.60301 > apollo.omnitec.net.2206: S
> 2950403490:2950403490(0) win 14600 <mss 1460,sackOK,timestamp 405541957
> 0,nop,wscale 7> (DF)
> 14:28:15.259723 marvel.omnitec.net.60301 > apollo.omnitec.net.2206: . ack
> 1733911734 win 115 <nop,nop,timestamp 405541957 3356340392> (DF)
>
> BUT there is no process using 60301 on the Linux box:
>
> # lsof | grep 60301
>
> <blank>
>
> Something is opening a connection and then dropping, .. there is a keypair
> for user lvl (me), but with it disabled nothing changed.
>
> Any more thoughts on how to isolate the source on the Linux box?
>
>         Thanks!
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct  7 16:49:27 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:49:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
In-Reply-To: <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:

> Check for crons?
>
Done that, .. nothing except standardones.

> Enable network audit logs on selinux?
>
Don't use it.

> Flush the connections on the BSD box and see if they return.
>
They do, unfortunately.

I can SEE a packet originating on the Linux box every so often:

# tcpdump -A dst 206.197.251.191
tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode
listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 65535 bytes
15:42:16.254303 IP marvel.omnitec.net.60323 > apollo.omnitec.net.ssh:
Flags [P.], seq 2576625054:2576625086, ack 3719790227, win 164, options
[nop,nop,TS val 406652187 ecr 4170988506], length 32
E..T.. at .?.................-...~............
.=....;....6.i.+.!K......ER....!5..T....

How could a process keep a port optn, yet there be no way to observe the
port in a Linux kernel?

	Lee
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From awilliam at whitemice.org  Mon Oct  7 16:51:28 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 16:51:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1381179088.3886.30.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Mon, 2013-10-07 at 15:49 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> They do, unfortunately.
> I can SEE a packet originating on the Linux box every so often:
> # tcpdump -A dst 206.197.251.191
> tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode
> listening on eth0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 65535 bytes
> 15:42:16.254303 IP marvel.omnitec.net.60323 > apollo.omnitec.net.ssh:
> Flags [P.], seq 2576625054:2576625086, ack 3719790227, win 164, options
> [nop,nop,TS val 406652187 ecr 4170988506], length 32
> E..T.. at .?.................-...~............
> .=....;....6.i.+.!K......ER....!5..T....
> How could a process keep a port optn, yet there be no way to observe the
> port in a Linux kernel?

Is it possible the socket is half-open?  Or waiting to complete close
[CLOSE_WAIT]?

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct  7 17:02:46 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:02:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
In-Reply-To: <1381179088.3886.30.camel@linux-86wr.site>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1381179088.3886.30.camel@linux-86wr.site>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071602010.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> Is it possible the socket is half-open?  Or waiting to complete close
> [CLOSE_WAIT]?
>
Even if it were hung, it shouldn't be there.

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct  7 17:05:34 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:05:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M771eFSmhn38fZwKmen5fQc6XQ=h_AFDmsC2-tgoA2zkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 7, 2013 4:49 PM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:

> How could a process keep a port optn, yet there be no way to observe the
> port in a Linux kernel?

Rootkit would explain it..but seems like odd behavior for one.  You could
try running unhide.

Mark
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct  7 17:22:23 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 16:22:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
In-Reply-To: <CACNU6M771eFSmhn38fZwKmen5fQc6XQ=h_AFDmsC2-tgoA2zkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M771eFSmhn38fZwKmen5fQc6XQ=h_AFDmsC2-tgoA2zkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071621590.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Mon, 7 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:

> Rootkit would explain it..but seems like odd behavior for one.  You could
> try running unhide.
>
Interesting possibility, .. I'll check it out.

	Lee
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From mrj at plorb.com  Tue Oct  8 03:16:48 2013
From: mrj at plorb.com (Jeff DeFouw)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 03:16:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Rogue SSH Connections
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071439400.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4N3UTHVxi9Vq-99Mwha7ZnjxgfvC446jeEV2=8MZzVgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310071547160.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <20131008071648.GA19950@blorp.plorb.com>

On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 03:49:27PM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> How could a process keep a port optn, yet there be no way to observe the
> port in a Linux kernel?

If the port is open in any way, it should show up in netstat.  If it 
doesn't show up there, my next guess would be the Linux server is doing 
NAT.

-- 
Jeff DeFouw <mrj at plorb.com>

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Fri Oct 11 20:02:53 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (ebever at researchintegration.org)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 00:02:53 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
Message-ID: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>

After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three times
tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files copied it
croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went directly to
'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished installing etc
but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.

At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It went much
more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install the boot
loader.

In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even when I
formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it kept telling
me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.

So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning, even though
Evo
was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.

Anyone have any ideas? I'm downloading opensuse, but as I recall it wouldn't
work on this computer a couple of years ago when I went to Fedora. Maybe it's
better now.

The fedora 17 installer created
sda1 210MB fat16 EFI System Partition  boot
    EFI (dir)
        redhat (dir)
           grub2-efi (dir)
              grub.efi
    mach_kernel
    System (dir)
         Library (dir)
             Core Services (dir)

sda2 524MB ext4
    config 3.3.4-5...
    efi (dir)
    elf-memtest86....
    grub (dir)
    grub2 (dir)
    initramfs....
    lost+found (dir)
    memtest86....
    System.map-3.3.4-5...
    vinLinux-3.3.4-5

sda3 57.3GB ext4
    bin (dir)
    boot (dir)
    dev (dir)
    ....

sda4 5.96GB  swap

sda5 260GB ext4
    lost+found

Can I find the right bootloader files and copy them in to the right places?

Thanks

From megadave at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 20:10:20 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 20:10:20 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Check your BIOS/CMOS for some sort of "protect boot sector" options -
some systems had that as  crude defense against (windows based)
boot-sector viruses, and block attempts to write the MBR of the hard
drive. Obviously you need to turn these off, if you find them and they
are enabled.

What machine is this? Is it an OEM machine or a built one?

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM,  <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three times
> tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files copied it
> croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went directly to
> 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished installing etc
> but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
>
> At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It went much
> more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install the boot
> loader.
>
> In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even when I
> formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it kept telling
> me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
>
> So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning, even though
> Evo
> was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
>
> Anyone have any ideas? I'm downloading opensuse, but as I recall it wouldn't
> work on this computer a couple of years ago when I went to Fedora. Maybe it's
> better now.
>
> The fedora 17 installer created
> sda1 210MB fat16 EFI System Partition  boot
>     EFI (dir)
>         redhat (dir)
>            grub2-efi (dir)
>               grub.efi
>     mach_kernel
>     System (dir)
>          Library (dir)
>              Core Services (dir)
>
> sda2 524MB ext4
>     config 3.3.4-5...
>     efi (dir)
>     elf-memtest86....
>     grub (dir)
>     grub2 (dir)
>     initramfs....
>     lost+found (dir)
>     memtest86....
>     System.map-3.3.4-5...
>     vinLinux-3.3.4-5
>
> sda3 57.3GB ext4
>     bin (dir)
>     boot (dir)
>     dev (dir)
>     ....
>
> sda4 5.96GB  swap
>
> sda5 260GB ext4
>     lost+found
>
> Can I find the right bootloader files and copy them in to the right places?
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From andross at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 21:02:29 2013
From: andross at gmail.com (andross at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 21:02:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGY=PXqduApbWQsV_cmofkDBJog8GGA9duo9M-3TTErfGYkUag@mail.gmail.com>

It looks like an EFI issue, which can get quite despicable. You can usually
enable a default BIOS fallback mode in the EFI setup, which will let you
finish a normal distro install. Then you can install and configure
grub2-efi, reboot the computer, and enjoy.


On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:10 PM, megadave <megadave at gmail.com> wrote:

> Check your BIOS/CMOS for some sort of "protect boot sector" options -
> some systems had that as  crude defense against (windows based)
> boot-sector viruses, and block attempts to write the MBR of the hard
> drive. Obviously you need to turn these off, if you find them and they
> are enabled.
>
> What machine is this? Is it an OEM machine or a built one?
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM,  <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> > After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three
> times
> > tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files copied it
> > croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went
> directly to
> > 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished
> installing etc
> > but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
> >
> > At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It went
> much
> > more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install the
> boot
> > loader.
> >
> > In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even when I
> > formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it kept
> telling
> > me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
> >
> > So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning, even
> though
> > Evo
> > was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
> >
> > Anyone have any ideas? I'm downloading opensuse, but as I recall it
> wouldn't
> > work on this computer a couple of years ago when I went to Fedora. Maybe
> it's
> > better now.
> >
> > The fedora 17 installer created
> > sda1 210MB fat16 EFI System Partition  boot
> >     EFI (dir)
> >         redhat (dir)
> >            grub2-efi (dir)
> >               grub.efi
> >     mach_kernel
> >     System (dir)
> >          Library (dir)
> >              Core Services (dir)
> >
> > sda2 524MB ext4
> >     config 3.3.4-5...
> >     efi (dir)
> >     elf-memtest86....
> >     grub (dir)
> >     grub2 (dir)
> >     initramfs....
> >     lost+found (dir)
> >     memtest86....
> >     System.map-3.3.4-5...
> >     vinLinux-3.3.4-5
> >
> > sda3 57.3GB ext4
> >     bin (dir)
> >     boot (dir)
> >     dev (dir)
> >     ....
> >
> > sda4 5.96GB  swap
> >
> > sda5 260GB ext4
> >     lost+found
> >
> > Can I find the right bootloader files and copy them in to the right
> places?
> >
> > Thanks
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From leapole at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 21:39:35 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 18:39:35 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <CAGY=PXqduApbWQsV_cmofkDBJog8GGA9duo9M-3TTErfGYkUag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGY=PXqduApbWQsV_cmofkDBJog8GGA9duo9M-3TTErfGYkUag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <634CA7AA-73F5-4266-9971-D06FA8B71F0C@gmail.com>

Might want to check and see if you need the efi kernel also. I know cents has a special install disc for that


> On Oct 11, 2013, at 6:02 PM, andross at gmail.com wrote:
> 
> It looks like an EFI issue, which can get quite despicable. You can usually enable a default BIOS fallback mode in the EFI setup, which will let you finish a normal distro install. Then you can install and configure grub2-efi, reboot the computer, and enjoy.
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:10 PM, megadave <megadave at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Check your BIOS/CMOS for some sort of "protect boot sector" options -
>> some systems had that as  crude defense against (windows based)
>> boot-sector viruses, and block attempts to write the MBR of the hard
>> drive. Obviously you need to turn these off, if you find them and they
>> are enabled.
>> 
>> What machine is this? Is it an OEM machine or a built one?
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM,  <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
>> > After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three times
>> > tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files copied it
>> > croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went directly to
>> > 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished installing etc
>> > but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
>> >
>> > At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It went much
>> > more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install the boot
>> > loader.
>> >
>> > In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even when I
>> > formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it kept telling
>> > me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
>> >
>> > So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning, even though
>> > Evo
>> > was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
>> >
>> > Anyone have any ideas? I'm downloading opensuse, but as I recall it wouldn't
>> > work on this computer a couple of years ago when I went to Fedora. Maybe it's
>> > better now.
>> >
>> > The fedora 17 installer created
>> > sda1 210MB fat16 EFI System Partition  boot
>> >     EFI (dir)
>> >         redhat (dir)
>> >            grub2-efi (dir)
>> >               grub.efi
>> >     mach_kernel
>> >     System (dir)
>> >          Library (dir)
>> >              Core Services (dir)
>> >
>> > sda2 524MB ext4
>> >     config 3.3.4-5...
>> >     efi (dir)
>> >     elf-memtest86....
>> >     grub (dir)
>> >     grub2 (dir)
>> >     initramfs....
>> >     lost+found (dir)
>> >     memtest86....
>> >     System.map-3.3.4-5...
>> >     vinLinux-3.3.4-5
>> >
>> > sda3 57.3GB ext4
>> >     bin (dir)
>> >     boot (dir)
>> >     dev (dir)
>> >     ....
>> >
>> > sda4 5.96GB  swap
>> >
>> > sda5 260GB ext4
>> >     lost+found
>> >
>> > Can I find the right bootloader files and copy them in to the right places?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > grlug mailing list
>> > grlug at grlug.org
>> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Sat Oct 12 09:29:49 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (ebever at researchintegration.org)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:29:49 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <634CA7AA-73F5-4266-9971-D06FA8B71F0C@gmail.com>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGY=PXqduApbWQsV_cmofkDBJog8GGA9duo9M-3TTErfGYkUag@mail.gmail.com>
 <634CA7AA-73F5-4266-9971-D06FA8B71F0C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1381584589.52594ecd642e2@webmail.researchintegration.org>

Crap!! I just spent another 3-4 hours downloading and installing openSUSE 12.3
only to get the same result when I tried to start: "Operating system not
found."

What is one supposed to do? I've been an enthusiast for Linux for about 12 years
now, but this is getting ridiculous. Why aren't things getting better rather
than worse? 

UEFI enabled systems are 3-4 years old now. Why can't the installers handle
them?

There don't seem to be any of the options mentioned here in either the Fedora or
the openSUSE installation processes.

Quoting Josh <leapole at gmail.com>:

> Might want to check and see if you need the efi kernel also. I know cents has
> a special install disc for that
> 
> 
> > On Oct 11, 2013, at 6:02 PM, andross at gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > It looks like an EFI issue, which can get quite despicable. You can usually
> enable a default BIOS fallback mode in the EFI setup, which will let you
> finish a normal distro install. Then you can install and configure grub2-efi,
> reboot the computer, and enjoy.
> > 
> > 
> >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:10 PM, megadave <megadave at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Check your BIOS/CMOS for some sort of "protect boot sector" options -
> >> some systems had that as  crude defense against (windows based)
> >> boot-sector viruses, and block attempts to write the MBR of the hard
> >> drive. Obviously you need to turn these off, if you find them and they
> >> are enabled.
> >> 
> >> What machine is this? Is it an OEM machine or a built one?
> >> 
> >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM,  <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> >> > After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three
> times
> >> > tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files copied
> it
> >> > croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went
> directly to
> >> > 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished
> installing etc
> >> > but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
> >> >
> >> > At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It went
> much
> >> > more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install the
> boot
> >> > loader.
> >> >
> >> > In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even when I
> >> > formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it kept
> telling
> >> > me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
> >> >
> >> > So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning, even
> though
> >> > Evo
> >> > was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone have any ideas? I'm downloading opensuse, but as I recall it
> wouldn't
> >> > work on this computer a couple of years ago when I went to Fedora. Maybe
> it's
> >> > better now.
> >> >
> >> > The fedora 17 installer created
> >> > sda1 210MB fat16 EFI System Partition  boot
> >> >     EFI (dir)
> >> >         redhat (dir)
> >> >            grub2-efi (dir)
> >> >               grub.efi
> >> >     mach_kernel
> >> >     System (dir)
> >> >          Library (dir)
> >> >              Core Services (dir)
> >> >
> >> > sda2 524MB ext4
> >> >     config 3.3.4-5...
> >> >     efi (dir)
> >> >     elf-memtest86....
> >> >     grub (dir)
> >> >     grub2 (dir)
> >> >     initramfs....
> >> >     lost+found (dir)
> >> >     memtest86....
> >> >     System.map-3.3.4-5...
> >> >     vinLinux-3.3.4-5
> >> >
> >> > sda3 57.3GB ext4
> >> >     bin (dir)
> >> >     boot (dir)
> >> >     dev (dir)
> >> >     ....
> >> >
> >> > sda4 5.96GB  swap
> >> >
> >> > sda5 260GB ext4
> >> >     lost+found
> >> >
> >> > Can I find the right bootloader files and copy them in to the right
> places?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > grlug mailing list
> >> > grlug at grlug.org
> >> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 




From faeren at faeren.com  Sat Oct 12 09:51:02 2013
From: faeren at faeren.com (Faeren Madza)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 09:51:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <1381584589.52594ecd642e2@webmail.researchintegration.org>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGY=PXqduApbWQsV_cmofkDBJog8GGA9duo9M-3TTErfGYkUag@mail.gmail.com>
 <634CA7AA-73F5-4266-9971-D06FA8B71F0C@gmail.com>
 <1381584589.52594ecd642e2@webmail.researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <CAAsiptT19qCWqHdVYCfWd8qXUHVcdwOyLdmmrFGHymHEm++8EQ@mail.gmail.com>

Many BIOSes I've seen allow you to set "boot mode" to 'Legacy' effectively
turning off UEFI...

Is that an option for you?


F.


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 9:29 AM, <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:

> Crap!! I just spent another 3-4 hours downloading and installing openSUSE
> 12.3
> only to get the same result when I tried to start: "Operating system not
> found."
>
> What is one supposed to do? I've been an enthusiast for Linux for about 12
> years
> now, but this is getting ridiculous. Why aren't things getting better
> rather
> than worse?
>
> UEFI enabled systems are 3-4 years old now. Why can't the installers handle
> them?
>
> There don't seem to be any of the options mentioned here in either the
> Fedora or
> the openSUSE installation processes.
>
> Quoting Josh <leapole at gmail.com>:
>
> > Might want to check and see if you need the efi kernel also. I know
> cents has
> > a special install disc for that
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 11, 2013, at 6:02 PM, andross at gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > It looks like an EFI issue, which can get quite despicable. You can
> usually
> > enable a default BIOS fallback mode in the EFI setup, which will let you
> > finish a normal distro install. Then you can install and configure
> grub2-efi,
> > reboot the computer, and enjoy.
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:10 PM, megadave <megadave at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Check your BIOS/CMOS for some sort of "protect boot sector" options -
> > >> some systems had that as  crude defense against (windows based)
> > >> boot-sector viruses, and block attempts to write the MBR of the hard
> > >> drive. Obviously you need to turn these off, if you find them and they
> > >> are enabled.
> > >>
> > >> What machine is this? Is it an OEM machine or a built one?
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM,  <ebever at researchintegration.org>
> wrote:
> > >> > After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and
> three
> > times
> > >> > tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files
> copied
> > it
> > >> > croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went
> > directly to
> > >> > 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished
> > installing etc
> > >> > but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
> > >> >
> > >> > At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It
> went
> > much
> > >> > more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install
> the
> > boot
> > >> > loader.
> > >> >
> > >> > In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even
> when I
> > >> > formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it
> kept
> > telling
> > >> > me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
> > >> >
> > >> > So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning,
> even
> > though
> > >> > Evo
> > >> > was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
> > >> >
> > >> > Anyone have any ideas? I'm downloading opensuse, but as I recall it
> > wouldn't
> > >> > work on this computer a couple of years ago when I went to Fedora.
> Maybe
> > it's
> > >> > better now.
> > >> >
> > >> > The fedora 17 installer created
> > >> > sda1 210MB fat16 EFI System Partition  boot
> > >> >     EFI (dir)
> > >> >         redhat (dir)
> > >> >            grub2-efi (dir)
> > >> >               grub.efi
> > >> >     mach_kernel
> > >> >     System (dir)
> > >> >          Library (dir)
> > >> >              Core Services (dir)
> > >> >
> > >> > sda2 524MB ext4
> > >> >     config 3.3.4-5...
> > >> >     efi (dir)
> > >> >     elf-memtest86....
> > >> >     grub (dir)
> > >> >     grub2 (dir)
> > >> >     initramfs....
> > >> >     lost+found (dir)
> > >> >     memtest86....
> > >> >     System.map-3.3.4-5...
> > >> >     vinLinux-3.3.4-5
> > >> >
> > >> > sda3 57.3GB ext4
> > >> >     bin (dir)
> > >> >     boot (dir)
> > >> >     dev (dir)
> > >> >     ....
> > >> >
> > >> > sda4 5.96GB  swap
> > >> >
> > >> > sda5 260GB ext4
> > >> >     lost+found
> > >> >
> > >> > Can I find the right bootloader files and copy them in to the right
> > places?
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks
>
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Sat Oct 12 09:56:33 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (ebever at researchintegration.org)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:56:33 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <CAAsiptT19qCWqHdVYCfWd8qXUHVcdwOyLdmmrFGHymHEm++8EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGY=PXqduApbWQsV_cmofkDBJog8GGA9duo9M-3TTErfGYkUag@mail.gmail.com>
 <634CA7AA-73F5-4266-9971-D06FA8B71F0C@gmail.com>
 <1381584589.52594ecd642e2@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAAsiptT19qCWqHdVYCfWd8qXUHVcdwOyLdmmrFGHymHEm++8EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1381586193.525955117d26e@webmail.researchintegration.org>

I tried that earlier with one of my fedora attempts. It didn't seem to help. I
don't know if a non-uefi boot mode is even installed. I'll try it again.

Quoting Faeren Madza <faeren at faeren.com>:

> Many BIOSes I've seen allow you to set "boot mode" to 'Legacy' effectively
> turning off UEFI...
> 
> Is that an option for you?
> 
> 
> F.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 9:29 AM, <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> 
> > Crap!! I just spent another 3-4 hours downloading and installing openSUSE
> > 12.3
> > only to get the same result when I tried to start: "Operating system not
> > found."
> >
> > What is one supposed to do? I've been an enthusiast for Linux for about 12
> > years
> > now, but this is getting ridiculous. Why aren't things getting better
> > rather
> > than worse?
> >
> > UEFI enabled systems are 3-4 years old now. Why can't the installers
> handle
> > them?
> >
> > There don't seem to be any of the options mentioned here in either the
> > Fedora or
> > the openSUSE installation processes.
> >
> > Quoting Josh <leapole at gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Might want to check and see if you need the efi kernel also. I know
> > cents has
> > > a special install disc for that
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Oct 11, 2013, at 6:02 PM, andross at gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It looks like an EFI issue, which can get quite despicable. You can
> > usually
> > > enable a default BIOS fallback mode in the EFI setup, which will let you
> > > finish a normal distro install. Then you can install and configure
> > grub2-efi,
> > > reboot the computer, and enjoy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:10 PM, megadave <megadave at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Check your BIOS/CMOS for some sort of "protect boot sector" options -
> > > >> some systems had that as  crude defense against (windows based)
> > > >> boot-sector viruses, and block attempts to write the MBR of the hard
> > > >> drive. Obviously you need to turn these off, if you find them and
> they
> > > >> are enabled.
> > > >>
> > > >> What machine is this? Is it an OEM machine or a built one?
> > > >>
> > > >> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM,  <ebever at researchintegration.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >> > After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and
> > three
> > > times
> > > >> > tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files
> > copied
> > > it
> > > >> > croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went
> > > directly to
> > > >> > 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished
> > > installing etc
> > > >> > but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It
> > went
> > > much
> > > >> > more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install
> > the
> > > boot
> > > >> > loader.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even
> > when I
> > > >> > formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it
> > kept
> > > telling
> > > >> > me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning,
> > even
> > > though
> > > >> > Evo
> > > >> > was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Anyone have any ideas? I'm downloading opensuse, but as I recall it
> > > wouldn't
> > > >> > work on this computer a couple of years ago when I went to Fedora.
> > Maybe
> > > it's
> > > >> > better now.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The fedora 17 installer created
> > > >> > sda1 210MB fat16 EFI System Partition  boot
> > > >> >     EFI (dir)
> > > >> >         redhat (dir)
> > > >> >            grub2-efi (dir)
> > > >> >               grub.efi
> > > >> >     mach_kernel
> > > >> >     System (dir)
> > > >> >          Library (dir)
> > > >> >              Core Services (dir)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > sda2 524MB ext4
> > > >> >     config 3.3.4-5...
> > > >> >     efi (dir)
> > > >> >     elf-memtest86....
> > > >> >     grub (dir)
> > > >> >     grub2 (dir)
> > > >> >     initramfs....
> > > >> >     lost+found (dir)
> > > >> >     memtest86....
> > > >> >     System.map-3.3.4-5...
> > > >> >     vinLinux-3.3.4-5
> > > >> >
> > > >> > sda3 57.3GB ext4
> > > >> >     bin (dir)
> > > >> >     boot (dir)
> > > >> >     dev (dir)
> > > >> >     ....
> > > >> >
> > > >> > sda4 5.96GB  swap
> > > >> >
> > > >> > sda5 260GB ext4
> > > >> >     lost+found
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Can I find the right bootloader files and copy them in to the right
> > > places?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks
> >
> 




From lvl at omnitec.net  Sat Oct 12 15:11:36 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 14:11:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <1381584589.52594ecd642e2@webmail.researchintegration.org>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAFP7keugXqxLW9JkJisJT5Bqvp9_DuPw6=gY3mF5+YwuacoH2Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGY=PXqduApbWQsV_cmofkDBJog8GGA9duo9M-3TTErfGYkUag@mail.gmail.com>
 <634CA7AA-73F5-4266-9971-D06FA8B71F0C@gmail.com>
 <1381584589.52594ecd642e2@webmail.researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310121410230.18017@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 ebever at researchintegration.org wrote:

> Crap!! I just spent another 3-4 hours downloading and installing openSUSE 12.3
> only to get the same result when I tried to start: "Operating system not
> found."
>
Did you do the UEFI install on SuSE? That has worked fine for me, ..

> There don't seem to be any of the options mentioned here in either the Fedora or
> the openSUSE installation processes.
>
Might want to look again, .. IIRC, there is a UEFI checkbox on the screen
before disk partitioning.

	Lee

From chouse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 13:11:09 2013
From: chouse at gmail.com (Christopher House)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 13:11:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <CAB6bZF8-MmnRwHzFC5192FxuRvCnZpffHDsTUa5EfTBvVyMdMA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM, <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:

> After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three
> times
> tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files copied it
> croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went
> directly to
> 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished installing
> etc
> but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
>
> At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It went
> much
> more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install the boot
> loader.
>
> In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even when I
> formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it kept
> telling
> me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
>
> So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning, even
> though
> Evo
> was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
>
>
Are you sure there's no hardware issue? Bad memory, etc.
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From leapole at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 21:52:20 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:52:20 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <CAB6bZF8-MmnRwHzFC5192FxuRvCnZpffHDsTUa5EfTBvVyMdMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
 <CAB6bZF8-MmnRwHzFC5192FxuRvCnZpffHDsTUa5EfTBvVyMdMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F563451-7149-4731-B2B6-9AE7198AC48A@gmail.com>

Ok bare with me, I have only installed fedora once and seem to think its just like Ubuntu. 

When you install it takes thru making a user and copies all the data then at the last step it ask if you want to install grubs the. Fails to install grubs

You next step should be to reboot the machine to the live disc. Mount the hard drive then run "grub-install /dev/sd?"  With ? Being the drive and reporting back the error or success

> On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:11 AM, Christopher House <chouse at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 8:02 PM, <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
>> After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three times
>> tried to install it. The first two times at about 60% of files copied it
>> croaked and left me at the Live User Screen. The third time (I went directly to
>> 'install' rather than selecting it from Live User) it finished installing etc
>> but then croaked trying to install the boot loader.
>> 
>> At this point I went home and tried to install my old Fedora 17. It went much
>> more quickly but has also failed at the point of trying to install the boot
>> loader.
>> 
>> In between I had tried to do a disk-install of Knoppix, but even when I
>> formatted the disk to have the partitions that Knoppix wanted it kept telling
>> me that it couldn't find the appropriate partitions to install.
>> 
>> So now my nice computer, that at least was working this morning, even though
>> Evo
>> was giving me grief, now has apparently been bricked.
>> 
> 
> Are you sure there's no hardware issue? Bad memory, etc. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From amccutchen at davenport.edu  Tue Oct 15 14:16:04 2013
From: amccutchen at davenport.edu (Tony McCutchen)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 14:16:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] I am still looking for a Linux Tutor
Message-ID: <CAKmEzYTQ+hzN5X_0mRfO2OxN5mfRrTnXQybnNuNTkFabvYoOVw@mail.gmail.com>

Please contact me if you are interested
cell 616.258.6022


Associate Department Chair, Networking and Security Information Assurance
Grand Rapids/Holland/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek
6191 Kraft Avenue S.E.
Grand Rapids MI  49512
(616) 871-3981
(616) 554-5225 fax
amccutchen at davenport.edu
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Thu Oct 17 12:23:30 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 11:23:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

Looking for a 'simpler' email list manager (i.e. for a simpler user), ..
something a business can use to manage an email list.

If nothing else, it would be nice to have:

 * Name and email address (not just email only)
 * CRUD management form that shows both names and emails
 * When 'dropping' an email from the list, record a *status* of dropped so
   it cannot be added again by accident (to prevent recipient frustration)
 * Bonus - simple way to include a list data field in an email(i.e.
   salutation or company)

Any recmmendations? PHP or Rails would be nice, .. Perl a close 2nd.

        Lee


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 12:53:42 2013
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 12:53:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAAuMJGFpA2Wsrg2HVCGQoH6i4wmWuY9OGh1-4U2YBqDcfzAArw@mail.gmail.com>

not sure if this meets your needs, but I'll throw a name out there.

http://librelist.com/


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:23 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:

> Looking for a 'simpler' email list manager (i.e. for a simpler user), ..
> something a business can use to manage an email list.
>
> If nothing else, it would be nice to have:
>
>  * Name and email address (not just email only)
>  * CRUD management form that shows both names and emails
>  * When 'dropping' an email from the list, record a *status* of dropped so
>    it cannot be added again by accident (to prevent recipient frustration)
>  * Bonus - simple way to include a list data field in an email(i.e.
>    salutation or company)
>
> Any recmmendations? PHP or Rails would be nice, .. Perl a close 2nd.
>
>         Lee
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Thu Oct 17 13:13:20 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 12:13:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
In-Reply-To: <CAAuMJGFpA2Wsrg2HVCGQoH6i4wmWuY9OGh1-4U2YBqDcfzAArw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAAuMJGFpA2Wsrg2HVCGQoH6i4wmWuY9OGh1-4U2YBqDcfzAArw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171212460.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Thu, 17 Oct 2013, Steve Romanow wrote:

> not sure if this meets your needs, but I'll throw a name out there.
>
> http://librelist.com/
>
Don't see any mention of storing names or an admin interface, .. is that
available?

	Lee

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 13:14:35 2013
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 13:14:35 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171212460.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAAuMJGFpA2Wsrg2HVCGQoH6i4wmWuY9OGh1-4U2YBqDcfzAArw@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171212460.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAAuMJGGTUbUADfOag8jwkjNtHJKBjwnbWPQy1LPgGKZjz7w_pQ@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know.  I have not used it, just watched from afar.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:13 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Oct 2013, Steve Romanow wrote:
>
> > not sure if this meets your needs, but I'll throw a name out there.
> >
> > http://librelist.com/
> >
> Don't see any mention of storing names or an admin interface, .. is that
> available?
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From patrick at upmerchants.com  Thu Oct 17 14:33:52 2013
From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:33:52 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <52602D90.9070302@upmerchants.com>


On 10/17/2013 12:23 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> Looking for a 'simpler' email list manager (i.e. for a simpler user), ..
> something a business can use to manage an email list.
>
>

What is being used now so I know what would be 'simpler'?

Have you found anything close to what you want?

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Thu Oct 17 19:41:35 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 19:41:35 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
In-Reply-To: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
References: <1381536173.525891ad0d78d@webmail.researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <1382053295.2450.11.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 00:02 +0000, ebever at researchintegration.org wrote:
> After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three times
> tried to install it. <....>

Success 6 days later!! Tho hard telling why.

After trying all kinds of things, what seems to have worked it
--delete all partitions
--replace gpt partition table with msdos type.(Despite seeing in a
number of places that gpt was required.)
--set bios/uefi to 'legacy' only
--no lvm
--let the fedora 19 installer make all choices.

Thanks for the various suggestions.

Was it Freudian to call their new upgrader 'Fedup'?


From redheadedrodney at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 18:36:12 2013
From: redheadedrodney at gmail.com (rodney nunya)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:36:12 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
Message-ID: <CA+4KSnfmHqDwQVb3CAHEN-qwBkjfouO21_msJq4jMqx1jjcZQA@mail.gmail.com>

I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.

I am looking at a setup where I want to interact with multiple ARM based
linux boards from my PC. The idea is I want to run CLI based commands on
the Linux boards and return the response to the PC. I may want to run
multiple programs at the same time on the linux board and return a large
amount of data at times. The PC will make determinations on the data
returned and decide to run other programs based on the need.

I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make between
the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0 ports
and they have a serial console available.
What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized "switchboard"
type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
decide which programs to run and such.

Basically I am looking to use ARM boards as a sort of data collector for
the PC and the PC will make determinations based on the information
returned and go from there. It may start with one device getting
information and 2 others sitting idle waiting for something to happen and
when something is detected on the one getting information then the PC calls
up one of the idle computers to perform actions.

I will be making use of CLI based programs already in existence and
controlling everything from the PC with a custom program using a graphical
based interface to display the data to the user.

In design this system would use 2-3 different arm boards but in practical
use I could be making use of dozens of ARM boards from the PC with the ARM
boards doing data collection and calculations on the data and allow the PC
to sit mostly idle as a controller.
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Fri Oct 18 18:46:42 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:46:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
In-Reply-To: <CA+4KSnfmHqDwQVb3CAHEN-qwBkjfouO21_msJq4jMqx1jjcZQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+4KSnfmHqDwQVb3CAHEN-qwBkjfouO21_msJq4jMqx1jjcZQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310181742550.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Fri, 18 Oct 2013, rodney nunya wrote:

> I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
> such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.
>
This is a major reason why we always use a standard kernel. A RPi, for
example, supports standard ssh server/client interaction, along with all
of the related utilities.

> I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make between
> the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0 ports
> and they have a serial console available.
>
What is the issue with a LAN connection? It is by far the simplest way to
communicate with any embedded device, .. also trivial to use a miniUSB
Ethernet adapter for no-wires, if needed.

> What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized "switchboard"
> type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
> the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
> decide which programs to run and such.
>
Perfect application for ssh!

For example, the first RPi system I build is a media server - ssh to the
box, run mpg123 to play a stream and alsamixer to control if needed.

	Lee

From brousch at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 18:49:31 2013
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:49:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
In-Reply-To: <CA+4KSnfmHqDwQVb3CAHEN-qwBkjfouO21_msJq4jMqx1jjcZQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+4KSnfmHqDwQVb3CAHEN-qwBkjfouO21_msJq4jMqx1jjcZQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB2ERwWUV5nD1qKbOu3uuWO6=2N7u8ffS8uA6iJMLe55Dg@mail.gmail.com>

Thr boards you describe have ethernet or wifi and run Linux. You can just
use the usual Linux networking and tools to communicate.
I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.

I am looking at a setup where I want to interact with multiple ARM based
linux boards from my PC. The idea is I want to run CLI based commands on
the Linux boards and return the response to the PC. I may want to run
multiple programs at the same time on the linux board and return a large
amount of data at times. The PC will make determinations on the data
returned and decide to run other programs based on the need.

I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make between
the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0 ports
and they have a serial console available.
What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized "switchboard"
type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
decide which programs to run and such.

Basically I am looking to use ARM boards as a sort of data collector for
the PC and the PC will make determinations based on the information
returned and go from there. It may start with one device getting
information and 2 others sitting idle waiting for something to happen and
when something is detected on the one getting information then the PC calls
up one of the idle computers to perform actions.

I will be making use of CLI based programs already in existence and
controlling everything from the PC with a custom program using a graphical
based interface to display the data to the user.

In design this system would use 2-3 different arm boards but in practical
use I could be making use of dozens of ARM boards from the PC with the ARM
boards doing data collection and calculations on the data and allow the PC
to sit mostly idle as a controller.



_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From redheadedrodney at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 19:23:21 2013
From: redheadedrodney at gmail.com (rodney nunya)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 19:23:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug Digest, Vol 91, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.794.1382137161.2980.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.794.1382137161.2980.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <CA+4KSncLqPhKEXt_Bdrdbq6aJ2ajctedF-A8KC5b-2ZL9V-JeA@mail.gmail.com>

Without going into details the ARM boards will be linked via LAN to the
data collection devices and are not connected to the PC. Because of the
nature of this application I can NOT use LAN between the PC and ARM boards.
This also includes WiFi or similar devices that use the LAN layer. For the
purpose of this application consider that the PC has no networking of any
sort available to it. Due to the environment any sort of wireless
communications is a BAD idea.

I am assuming the OTG USB port hooked to the PC through a hub is likely the
second best connection from these boards to PC. But I want to be able to
send what ever data I want through the port.




On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 6:59 PM, <grlug-request at grlug.org> wrote:

> Send grlug mailing list submissions to
>         grlug at grlug.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         grlug-request at grlug.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         grlug-owner at grlug.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of grlug digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: 'Simpler' email list manager (Patrick Goupell)
>    2. Re: continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
>       (Eric Beversluis)
>    3. Remote control of ARM development board (rodney nunya)
>    4. Re: Remote control of ARM development board (L. V. Lammert)
>    5. Re: Remote control of ARM development board (Ben Rousch)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:33:52 -0400
> From: Patrick Goupell <patrick at upmerchants.com>
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
> Message-ID: <52602D90.9070302 at upmerchants.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> On 10/17/2013 12:23 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> > Looking for a 'simpler' email list manager (i.e. for a simpler user), ..
> > something a business can use to manage an email list.
> >
> >
>
> What is being used now so I know what would be 'simpler'?
>
> Have you found anything close to what you want?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 19:41:35 -0400
> From: Eric Beversluis <ebever at researchintegration.org>
> To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area."
>         <grlug at grlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and
>         tribulations
> Message-ID: <1382053295.2450.11.camel at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 00:02 +0000, ebever at researchintegration.org wrote:
> > After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three
> times
> > tried to install it. <....>
>
> Success 6 days later!! Tho hard telling why.
>
> After trying all kinds of things, what seems to have worked it
> --delete all partitions
> --replace gpt partition table with msdos type.(Despite seeing in a
> number of places that gpt was required.)
> --set bios/uefi to 'legacy' only
> --no lvm
> --let the fedora 19 installer make all choices.
>
> Thanks for the various suggestions.
>
> Was it Freudian to call their new upgrader 'Fedup'?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:36:12 -0400
> From: rodney nunya <redheadedrodney at gmail.com>
> To: grlug <grlug at grlug.org>
> Subject: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CA+4KSnfmHqDwQVb3CAHEN-qwBkjfouO21_msJq4jMqx1jjcZQA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
> such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.
>
> I am looking at a setup where I want to interact with multiple ARM based
> linux boards from my PC. The idea is I want to run CLI based commands on
> the Linux boards and return the response to the PC. I may want to run
> multiple programs at the same time on the linux board and return a large
> amount of data at times. The PC will make determinations on the data
> returned and decide to run other programs based on the need.
>
> I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make between
> the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0 ports
> and they have a serial console available.
> What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized "switchboard"
> type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
> the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
> decide which programs to run and such.
>
> Basically I am looking to use ARM boards as a sort of data collector for
> the PC and the PC will make determinations based on the information
> returned and go from there. It may start with one device getting
> information and 2 others sitting idle waiting for something to happen and
> when something is detected on the one getting information then the PC calls
> up one of the idle computers to perform actions.
>
> I will be making use of CLI based programs already in existence and
> controlling everything from the PC with a custom program using a graphical
> based interface to display the data to the user.
>
> In design this system would use 2-3 different arm boards but in practical
> use I could be making use of dozens of ARM boards from the PC with the ARM
> boards doing data collection and calculations on the data and allow the PC
> to sit mostly idle as a controller.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20131018/e4b8f921/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:46:42 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net>
> To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area."
>         <grlug at grlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310181742550.4922 at Mail.omnitec.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2013, rodney nunya wrote:
>
> > I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
> > such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.
> >
> This is a major reason why we always use a standard kernel. A RPi, for
> example, supports standard ssh server/client interaction, along with all
> of the related utilities.
>
> > I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make
> between
> > the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0
> ports
> > and they have a serial console available.
> >
> What is the issue with a LAN connection? It is by far the simplest way to
> communicate with any embedded device, .. also trivial to use a miniUSB
> Ethernet adapter for no-wires, if needed.
>
> > What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized
> "switchboard"
> > type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
> > the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
> > decide which programs to run and such.
> >
> Perfect application for ssh!
>
> For example, the first RPi system I build is a media server - ssh to the
> box, run mpg123 to play a stream and alsamixer to control if needed.
>
>         Lee
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:49:31 -0400
> From: Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com>
> To: Grand Rapids Linux Users Group <grlug at grlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
> Message-ID:
>         <CAOPHfB2ERwWUV5nD1qKbOu3uuWO6=
> 2N7u8ffS8uA6iJMLe55Dg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thr boards you describe have ethernet or wifi and run Linux. You can just
> use the usual Linux networking and tools to communicate.
> I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
> such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.
>
> I am looking at a setup where I want to interact with multiple ARM based
> linux boards from my PC. The idea is I want to run CLI based commands on
> the Linux boards and return the response to the PC. I may want to run
> multiple programs at the same time on the linux board and return a large
> amount of data at times. The PC will make determinations on the data
> returned and decide to run other programs based on the need.
>
> I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make between
> the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0 ports
> and they have a serial console available.
> What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized "switchboard"
> type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
> the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
> decide which programs to run and such.
>
> Basically I am looking to use ARM boards as a sort of data collector for
> the PC and the PC will make determinations based on the information
> returned and go from there. It may start with one device getting
> information and 2 others sitting idle waiting for something to happen and
> when something is detected on the one getting information then the PC calls
> up one of the idle computers to perform actions.
>
> I will be making use of CLI based programs already in existence and
> controlling everything from the PC with a custom program using a graphical
> based interface to display the data to the user.
>
> In design this system would use 2-3 different arm boards but in practical
> use I could be making use of dozens of ARM boards from the PC with the ARM
> boards doing data collection and calculations on the data and allow the PC
> to sit mostly idle as a controller.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20131018/f47a33a2/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> End of grlug Digest, Vol 91, Issue 14
> *************************************
>
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Fri Oct 18 19:39:23 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:39:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug Digest, Vol 91, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <CA+4KSncLqPhKEXt_Bdrdbq6aJ2ajctedF-A8KC5b-2ZL9V-JeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.794.1382137161.2980.grlug@grlug.org>
 <CA+4KSncLqPhKEXt_Bdrdbq6aJ2ajctedF-A8KC5b-2ZL9V-JeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310181838020.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Fri, 18 Oct 2013, rodney nunya wrote:

> I am assuming the OTG USB port hooked to the PC through a hub is likely the
> second best connection from these boards to PC. But I want to be able to
> send what ever data I want through the port.
>
Then do the network over usb:

	http://www.linux-usb.org/usbnet/

A shell environment supports a plethora of tools and environments, ..
anything other than a network connection is much less usable.

	Lee

From leapole at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 21:23:47 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:23:47 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug Digest, Vol 91, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <CA+4KSncLqPhKEXt_Bdrdbq6aJ2ajctedF-A8KC5b-2ZL9V-JeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.794.1382137161.2980.grlug@grlug.org>
 <CA+4KSncLqPhKEXt_Bdrdbq6aJ2ajctedF-A8KC5b-2ZL9V-JeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADi8XRtK_uDaEMwTu+BCWsKAXSu8_M5RZ9RBJuQY1MmaWWJWnw@mail.gmail.com>

I am interested in the details,  What are you trying to do that can not
be accomplished over ethernet or wifi?

Looking for ways to connect devices with no idea of the data or reason to
connect them is like asking someone to run cable to a computer... So many
options that work but no idea if its what you want.

As for some of your questions

you will want to look at

parallel-ssh for running commands to many computers all at roughly the same
time and getting results back.

capistrano - could also be used but that is more for managing a cluster of
machines with ruby

and I think puppet might also help distributed commands

And again BASH is a swiss army knife
(Untested) - I dont have a machine to try it on atm

make this a script....  call it with scriptname.sh "COMMAND AND STUFF"

#!/bin/bashCOMMAND=$1
HOSTS="josh at 10.13.37.3 josh at 13.37.3.3 bob at 10.110.0.1"for HOSTNAME in
${HOSTS} ; do
    ssh ${HOSTNAME} "${COMMAND}"done



And before you look to far into OTG USB networking - note that the USB spec
calls for cable length of 15 feet.

Your only option of the top of my head, without adding anything to an r-pi
is to use the serial tty console adapters.

and just have then all pluged into the same computer -- but then there is
the problem of how to issues command to each device -- altho you can prolly
just cat them to the /usb/tty that gets made.

Josh
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 4:23 PM, rodney nunya <redheadedrodney at gmail.com>wrote:

> Without going into details the ARM boards will be linked via LAN to the
> data collection devices and are not connected to the PC. Because of the
> nature of this application I can NOT use LAN between the PC and ARM boards.
> This also includes WiFi or similar devices that use the LAN layer. For the
> purpose of this application consider that the PC has no networking of any
> sort available to it. Due to the environment any sort of wireless
> communications is a BAD idea.
>
> I am assuming the OTG USB port hooked to the PC through a hub is likely
> the second best connection from these boards to PC. But I want to be able
> to send what ever data I want through the port.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 6:59 PM, <grlug-request at grlug.org> wrote:
>
>> Send grlug mailing list submissions to
>>         grlug at grlug.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         grlug-request at grlug.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         grlug-owner at grlug.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of grlug digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: 'Simpler' email list manager (Patrick Goupell)
>>    2. Re: continuing fedora installation trials and tribulations
>>       (Eric Beversluis)
>>    3. Remote control of ARM development board (rodney nunya)
>>    4. Re: Remote control of ARM development board (L. V. Lammert)
>>    5. Re: Remote control of ARM development board (Ben Rousch)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:33:52 -0400
>> From: Patrick Goupell <patrick at upmerchants.com>
>> To: grlug at grlug.org
>> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
>> Message-ID: <52602D90.9070302 at upmerchants.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On 10/17/2013 12:23 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote:
>> > Looking for a 'simpler' email list manager (i.e. for a simpler user), ..
>> > something a business can use to manage an email list.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> What is being used now so I know what would be 'simpler'?
>>
>> Have you found anything close to what you want?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 19:41:35 -0400
>> From: Eric Beversluis <ebever at researchintegration.org>
>> To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area."
>>         <grlug at grlug.org>
>> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] continuing fedora installation trials and
>>         tribulations
>> Message-ID: <1382053295.2450.11.camel at localhost>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 00:02 +0000, ebever at researchintegration.org wrote:
>> > After giving up on FedUp, I downloaded the DVD for Fedora 19 and three
>> times
>> > tried to install it. <....>
>>
>> Success 6 days later!! Tho hard telling why.
>>
>> After trying all kinds of things, what seems to have worked it
>> --delete all partitions
>> --replace gpt partition table with msdos type.(Despite seeing in a
>> number of places that gpt was required.)
>> --set bios/uefi to 'legacy' only
>> --no lvm
>> --let the fedora 19 installer make all choices.
>>
>> Thanks for the various suggestions.
>>
>> Was it Freudian to call their new upgrader 'Fedup'?
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:36:12 -0400
>> From: rodney nunya <redheadedrodney at gmail.com>
>> To: grlug <grlug at grlug.org>
>> Subject: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CA+4KSnfmHqDwQVb3CAHEN-qwBkjfouO21_msJq4jMqx1jjcZQA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
>> such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.
>>
>> I am looking at a setup where I want to interact with multiple ARM based
>> linux boards from my PC. The idea is I want to run CLI based commands on
>> the Linux boards and return the response to the PC. I may want to run
>> multiple programs at the same time on the linux board and return a large
>> amount of data at times. The PC will make determinations on the data
>> returned and decide to run other programs based on the need.
>>
>> I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make between
>> the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0
>> ports
>> and they have a serial console available.
>> What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized "switchboard"
>> type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
>> the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
>> decide which programs to run and such.
>>
>> Basically I am looking to use ARM boards as a sort of data collector for
>> the PC and the PC will make determinations based on the information
>> returned and go from there. It may start with one device getting
>> information and 2 others sitting idle waiting for something to happen and
>> when something is detected on the one getting information then the PC
>> calls
>> up one of the idle computers to perform actions.
>>
>> I will be making use of CLI based programs already in existence and
>> controlling everything from the PC with a custom program using a graphical
>> based interface to display the data to the user.
>>
>> In design this system would use 2-3 different arm boards but in practical
>> use I could be making use of dozens of ARM boards from the PC with the ARM
>> boards doing data collection and calculations on the data and allow the PC
>> to sit mostly idle as a controller.
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20131018/e4b8f921/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:46:42 -0500 (CDT)
>> From: "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net>
>> To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area."
>>         <grlug at grlug.org>
>> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
>> Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310181742550.4922 at Mail.omnitec.net>
>> Content-Type: TEXT/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Oct 2013, rodney nunya wrote:
>>
>> > I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a
>> board
>> > such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.
>> >
>> This is a major reason why we always use a standard kernel. A RPi, for
>> example, supports standard ssh server/client interaction, along with all
>> of the related utilities.
>>
>> > I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make
>> between
>> > the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0
>> ports
>> > and they have a serial console available.
>> >
>> What is the issue with a LAN connection? It is by far the simplest way to
>> communicate with any embedded device, .. also trivial to use a miniUSB
>> Ethernet adapter for no-wires, if needed.
>>
>> > What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized
>> "switchboard"
>> > type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
>> > the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
>> > decide which programs to run and such.
>> >
>> Perfect application for ssh!
>>
>> For example, the first RPi system I build is a media server - ssh to the
>> box, run mpg123 to play a stream and alsamixer to control if needed.
>>
>>         Lee
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:49:31 -0400
>> From: Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com>
>> To: Grand Rapids Linux Users Group <grlug at grlug.org>
>> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Remote control of ARM development board
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAOPHfB2ERwWUV5nD1qKbOu3uuWO6=
>> 2N7u8ffS8uA6iJMLe55Dg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Thr boards you describe have ethernet or wifi and run Linux. You can just
>> use the usual Linux networking and tools to communicate.
>> I am curious if anyone has any suggestions on how best to control a board
>> such as a Beagle Bone, rasberry pi or similar.
>>
>> I am looking at a setup where I want to interact with multiple ARM based
>> linux boards from my PC. The idea is I want to run CLI based commands on
>> the Linux boards and return the response to the PC. I may want to run
>> multiple programs at the same time on the linux board and return a large
>> amount of data at times. The PC will make determinations on the data
>> returned and decide to run other programs based on the need.
>>
>> I am wondering what is the fastest non LAN connection I could make between
>> the ARM and the computer. Most of the boards I looked at have USB 2.0
>> ports
>> and they have a serial console available.
>> What I am considering at this time is to build a specialized "switchboard"
>> type program on the Linux boxes that would run the programs and look for
>> the responses and communicate with a program on the PC that would then
>> decide which programs to run and such.
>>
>> Basically I am looking to use ARM boards as a sort of data collector for
>> the PC and the PC will make determinations based on the information
>> returned and go from there. It may start with one device getting
>> information and 2 others sitting idle waiting for something to happen and
>> when something is detected on the one getting information then the PC
>> calls
>> up one of the idle computers to perform actions.
>>
>> I will be making use of CLI based programs already in existence and
>> controlling everything from the PC with a custom program using a graphical
>> based interface to display the data to the user.
>>
>> In design this system would use 2-3 different arm boards but in practical
>> use I could be making use of dozens of ARM boards from the PC with the ARM
>> boards doing data collection and calculations on the data and allow the PC
>> to sit mostly idle as a controller.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> URL: <
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20131018/f47a33a2/attachment.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>> End of grlug Digest, Vol 91, Issue 14
>> *************************************
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From patrick at upmerchants.com  Sat Oct 19 08:06:14 2013
From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:06:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <526275B6.6060809@upmerchants.com>


On 10/17/2013 12:23 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> Looking for a 'simpler' email list manager (i.e. for a simpler user), ..
> something a business can use to manage an email list.
>
> If nothing else, it would be nice to have:
>
>   * Name and email address (not just email only)
>   * CRUD management form that shows both names and emails
>   * When 'dropping' an email from the list, record a *status* of dropped so
>     it cannot be added again by accident (to prevent recipient frustration)
>   * Bonus - simple way to include a list data field in an email(i.e.
>     salutation or company)
>
> Any recmmendations? PHP or Rails would be nice, .. Perl a close 2nd.
>
>    

If you are still looking for something, this is on sourceforge.net

http://sourceforge.net/projects/openemm/?source=directory

Patrick

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Sat Oct 19 09:03:21 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:03:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] reformating usb disk with microsoft reserved partition
Message-ID: <1382187801.4244.4.camel@ericscomputer>

I need to reformat an external use drive (ioSafe) to ext4 for use
backing up files from a ClearOS (based on CentOS) server.

The drive is 4TB and has a 134MB "Microsoft Reserved Partition." Should
I just leave that alone or delete it and make one big partition? Some
reading online leads me to think that if the drive is ever used for M$
purposes it would need that partition. Would there be any other reason
for keeping it? 

Thanks


From ebever at researchintegration.org  Sat Oct 19 09:08:16 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:08:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] reformating usb disk with microsoft reserved partition
In-Reply-To: <1382187801.4244.4.camel@ericscomputer>
References: <1382187801.4244.4.camel@ericscomputer>
Message-ID: <1382188096.4244.5.camel@ericscomputer>

I meant to mention that it's a gpt disk.
On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 09:03 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> I need to reformat an external use drive (ioSafe) to ext4 for use
> backing up files from a ClearOS (based on CentOS) server.
> 
> The drive is 4TB and has a 134MB "Microsoft Reserved Partition." Should
> I just leave that alone or delete it and make one big partition? Some
> reading online leads me to think that if the drive is ever used for M$
> purposes it would need that partition. Would there be any other reason
> for keeping it? 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From ebever at researchintegration.org  Sat Oct 19 09:45:20 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:45:20 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] reformating usb disk with microsoft reserved partition
In-Reply-To: <1382188096.4244.5.camel@ericscomputer>
References: <1382187801.4244.4.camel@ericscomputer>
 <1382188096.4244.5.camel@ericscomputer>
Message-ID: <1382190320.4244.7.camel@ericscomputer>

On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 09:08 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> I meant to mention that it's a gpt disk.
> On Sat, 2013-10-19 at 09:03 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> > I need to reformat an external use drive (ioSafe) to ext4 for use
> > backing up files from a ClearOS (based on CentOS) server.
> > 
> > The drive is 4TB and has a 134MB "Microsoft Reserved Partition." Should
> > I just leave that alone or delete it and make one big partition? Some
> > reading online leads me to think that if the drive is ever used for M$
> > purposes it would need that partition. Would there be any other reason
> > for keeping it? 
> > 
> > Thanks
It looks like, even for Windows, it's not necessary on a secondary
drive:
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1756524/removing-microsoft-reserved-partition-msr-secondary-gpt-disk.html

Thanks.


From lvl at omnitec.net  Sat Oct 19 22:23:44 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:23:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] 'Simpler' email list manager
In-Reply-To: <526275B6.6060809@upmerchants.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310171121190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <526275B6.6060809@upmerchants.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310192123210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Sat, 19 Oct 2013, Patrick Goupell wrote:

> If you are still looking for something, this is on sourceforge.net
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/openemm/?source=directory
>
> Patrick
>
Hi Patrick,

Looks interesting, .. thanks!

	Lee

From casey at grlug.org  Mon Oct 21 13:54:19 2013
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:54:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] =?windows-1252?q?Fwd=3A_=5BGLLUG=5D_The_Navy=92s_newest_w?=
	=?windows-1252?q?arship_is_powered_by_Linux?=
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP2814E067F3CE5D686A14ABC0010@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU0-SMTP2814E067F3CE5D686A14ABC0010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZE6cdN6-TkkRmgYoNQceWAm6Fc+DMakwaFm8ms9foqY=A@mail.gmail.com>

I had to share this one....


/the-navys-newest-warship-**is-powered-by-linux/<http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/>

The ship has some impressive technology installed!


Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Fri Oct 25 15:11:07 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:11:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Port Forwarding
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310251407170.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

Ran into an interesting problem today, .. on BSD and CentOS 5.4, when a
reverse SSH tunnel is setup it binds to all IPs on the host:

tcp          0      0  *.2210         *.*   LISTEN
tcp6         0      0  *.2210         *.*   LISTEN

With a more modern Linux, the *SAME* command binds to 127.0.0.1 ONLY:

tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:2205          0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
tcp        0      0 ::1:2205                :::*                    LISTEN

What must be done on a modern Linux kernel so that incoming connections
can also use the port?

	Thanks!

	Lee

From megadave at gmail.com  Fri Oct 25 15:34:37 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 15:34:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Port Forwarding
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310251407170.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310251407170.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAFP7ket3zxJGUDKedKho8nDHNvC3jbY2rjhbH+YWSzxvXDLC+A@mail.gmail.com>

Man sshd_config

     GatewayPorts
             Specifies whether remote hosts are allowed to connect to ports
             forwarded for the client.  By default, sshd(8) binds remote
port
             forwardings to the loopback address.  This prevents other
remote
             hosts from connecting to forwarded ports.  GatewayPorts can be
             used to specify that sshd should allow remote port forwardings
to
             bind to non-loopback addresses, thus allowing other hosts to
con-
             nect.  The argument may be ``no'' to force remote port forward-
             ings to be available to the local host only, ``yes'' to force
             remote port forwardings to bind to the wildcard address, or
             ``clientspecified'' to allow the client to select the address
to
             which the forwarding is bound.  The default is ``no''.
 On Oct 25, 2013 3:11 PM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:

> Ran into an interesting problem today, .. on BSD and CentOS 5.4, when a
> reverse SSH tunnel is setup it binds to all IPs on the host:
>
> tcp          0      0  *.2210         *.*   LISTEN
> tcp6         0      0  *.2210         *.*   LISTEN
>
> With a more modern Linux, the *SAME* command binds to 127.0.0.1 ONLY:
>
> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:2205          0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
> tcp        0      0 ::1:2205                :::*                    LISTEN
>
> What must be done on a modern Linux kernel so that incoming connections
> can also use the port?
>
>         Thanks!
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Fri Oct 25 15:41:51 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:41:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Port Forwarding
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7ket3zxJGUDKedKho8nDHNvC3jbY2rjhbH+YWSzxvXDLC+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310251407170.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7ket3zxJGUDKedKho8nDHNvC3jbY2rjhbH+YWSzxvXDLC+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310251441360.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Fri, 25 Oct 2013, megadave wrote:

> Man sshd_config
>
>      GatewayPorts
>
Bingo - thanks!

	Lee

From matt at zigg.com  Sat Oct 26 08:16:01 2013
From: matt at zigg.com (Matt Behrens)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 08:16:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
Message-ID: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>

Hey all,

Doing just a little potential early scoping here.  Haven?t called yet.

Considering switching off DSL to Comcast in the Wyoming area, but I want to make sure I can just get DHCP (they still use that, right?) from a modem and no router or whatever else.  Already have a router, want to forward SSH and IMAP-over-SSL.

Is there a secret to making sure the order is placed correctly so I get what I need and not some all-singing, all-dancing, all-locked-down monstrosity?

Also, are they offering IPv6?

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From richardnienhuis at gmail.com  Sat Oct 26 08:18:02 2013
From: richardnienhuis at gmail.com (Richard Nienhuis)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 08:18:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
Message-ID: <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>

When I ordered comcast I just told them I was supplying my own modem and
bought one.


On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Matt Behrens <matt at zigg.com> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Doing just a little potential early scoping here.  Haven?t called yet.
>
> Considering switching off DSL to Comcast in the Wyoming area, but I want
> to make sure I can just get DHCP (they still use that, right?) from a modem
> and no router or whatever else.  Already have a router, want to forward SSH
> and IMAP-over-SSL.
>
> Is there a secret to making sure the order is placed correctly so I get
> what I need and not some all-singing, all-dancing, all-locked-down
> monstrosity?
>
> Also, are they offering IPv6?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From newtoz at mozor.net  Sat Oct 26 08:21:22 2013
From: newtoz at mozor.net (Greg Stoike)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 08:21:22 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
Message-ID: <CAFCC+O=5rGHXnfFcxcD-o3HQ2=5WP166jDKbUzF2gDAOb=dgow@mail.gmail.com>

No ipv6 yet.
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From matt at zigg.com  Sat Oct 26 08:21:49 2013
From: matt at zigg.com (Matt Behrens)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 08:21:49 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
 <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>

On Oct 26, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Richard Nienhuis <richardnienhuis at gmail.com> wrote:

> When I ordered comcast I just told them I was supplying my own modem and bought one.

Oh yeah, that?s right, they lease, don?t they.  How soon I forgot how the cable company works.  Probably a good idea.  (In which case I?m in the market for recommendations, if they?re still on the shelves.)

Also: any craziness with SMTP?  I have a Postfix config right now that establishes the required SSL connect to AT&T and authenticates plus I manage a whitelist of authorized envelope addresses.  Hoping whatever I have to do for outbound SMTP is equally or less insane.

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From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Oct 26 09:20:01 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 09:20:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
Message-ID: <20131026132001.GB10590@rondo.celtics>

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 08:16:01AM -0400, Matt Behrens wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> Doing just a little potential early scoping here.  Haven?t called yet.
> 
> Considering switching off DSL to Comcast in the Wyoming area, but I
> want to make sure I can just get DHCP (they still use that, right?)
> from a modem and no router or whatever else.  Already have a router,
> want to forward SSH and IMAP-over-SSL.

I believe Comcast is now installing a cable modem/router/wireless router
all-in-one unit (I was upgraded to their latest hardware a couple months
ago). It has an open DMZ port for your router.

> Is there a secret to making sure the order is placed correctly so I
> get what I need and not some all-singing, all-dancing, all-locked-down
> monstrosity?

The DMZ port is your option. If they do, indeed, install the above
mentioned hardware, it must be placed first since it _is_ the cable
modem.

> Also, are they offering IPv6?

Not sure.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Here is the test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If
you're alive, it isn't.
Richard Bach, writer (b. 1936)

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sat Oct 26 10:08:00 2013
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 10:08:00 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
 <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>
Message-ID: <1382796480.7493.3.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>

On Sat, 2013-10-26 at 08:21 -0400, Matt Behrens wrote:
> On Oct 26, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Richard Nienhuis
> <richardnienhuis at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > When I ordered comcast I just told them I was supplying my own modem
> and bought one.
> 
> Oh yeah, that?s right, they lease, don?t they.  How soon I forgot how
> the cable company works.  Probably a good idea.  (In which case I?m in
> the market for recommendations, if they?re still on the shelves.)
> 
> Also: any craziness with SMTP?  I have a Postfix config right now that
> establishes the required SSL connect to AT&T and authenticates plus I
> manage a whitelist of authorized envelope addresses.  Hoping whatever
> I have to do for outbound SMTP is equally or less insane.

Comcast blocks *all* outgoing connections to port 25 outside of its
network.

IOW, any delivery from your DHCP / Dynamic Address, will not work.
Unless you have a static IP Address with a Business Account.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
"The world can only be grasped by action, not by contemplation."
    -- Jacob Bronowski
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From matt at zigg.com  Sat Oct 26 11:07:16 2013
From: matt at zigg.com (Matt Behrens)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:07:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <1382796480.7493.3.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
 <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>
 <1382796480.7493.3.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <8655F67B-9437-4CFC-9CA1-EEFDB1D8D57A@zigg.com>

On Oct 26, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:

> Comcast blocks *all* outgoing connections to port 25 outside of its
> network.

Right, so does AT&T.

> IOW, any delivery from your DHCP / Dynamic Address, will not work.
> Unless you have a static IP Address with a Business Account.

I have my own domain, and how I?ve been getting this to work is via AT&T?s relay.  They require an SSL connection (port 993), require you to authenticate to use it, and finally also require you to whitelist additional email addresses you will be sending mail from (e.g. matt at zigg.com.)  But yes, I?m not delivering directly.

From there I have my home server?s Postfix set to use that as its outgoing relay, and then various devices can also speak to AT&T?s relay directly (which also works from not-home, for mobile devices.)

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From megadave at gmail.com  Sat Oct 26 11:33:29 2013
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:33:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <8655F67B-9437-4CFC-9CA1-EEFDB1D8D57A@zigg.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
 <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>
 <1382796480.7493.3.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <8655F67B-9437-4CFC-9CA1-EEFDB1D8D57A@zigg.com>
Message-ID: <CAFP7keuqX-iJUA7cbcNaXnPJB18TNC9N+0B51yRsgSAR9_1LQg@mail.gmail.com>

Another option is what I do - get a basic VPS somewhere that has
full/open Internet connectivity.

You could also get just the most basic of one, and then either use it
as a relay (use SMTP auth to connect to it) OR set up a VPN link from
your home server so that it has access to the full outside
connectivity.

I would hate to have to use the outbound mail relay of an entity such
as AT&T or Comcast.

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Matt Behrens <matt at zigg.com> wrote:
> On Oct 26, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:
>
>> Comcast blocks *all* outgoing connections to port 25 outside of its
>> network.
>
> Right, so does AT&T.
>
>> IOW, any delivery from your DHCP / Dynamic Address, will not work.
>> Unless you have a static IP Address with a Business Account.
>
> I have my own domain, and how I?ve been getting this to work is via AT&T?s relay.  They require an SSL connection (port 993), require you to authenticate to use it, and finally also require you to whitelist additional email addresses you will be sending mail from (e.g. matt at zigg.com.)  But yes, I?m not delivering directly.
>
> From there I have my home server?s Postfix set to use that as its outgoing relay, and then various devices can also speak to AT&T?s relay directly (which also works from not-home, for mobile devices.)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From mrj at plorb.com  Sat Oct 26 14:55:08 2013
From: mrj at plorb.com (Jeff DeFouw)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 14:55:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
 <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>
Message-ID: <20131026185508.GA5028@blorp.plorb.com>

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 08:21:49AM -0400, Matt Behrens wrote:
> Oh yeah, that?s right, they lease, don?t they.  How soon I forgot how 
> the cable company works.  Probably a good idea.  (In which case I?m in 
> the market for recommendations, if they?re still on the shelves.)

I'm using a Motorola SB6121 that I bought from Newegg.  The 
SB6120/SB6121 were popular retail modems at the time.  I switched to it 
from an old DOCSIS 1.x modem after several lease price increases.  It's 
worked fine with my Performance service.  Comcast's approved modem list 
gives it an IPv6 check mark, so maybe some day that will work.

> Also: any craziness with SMTP?  I have a Postfix config right now that 
> establishes the required SSL connect to AT&T and authenticates plus I 
> manage a whitelist of authorized envelope addresses.  Hoping whatever 
> I have to do for outbound SMTP is equally or less insane.

I use Comcast's SMTP for outgoing the same way and I've never had a 
problem.  There are no whitelists to set.  After you authenticate, they 
don't seem to care what the envelope says.  I only use this address.

-- 
Jeff DeFouw <mrj at plorb.com>

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sat Oct 26 15:33:49 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 14:33:49 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Getting a straight connection from Comcast
In-Reply-To: <8655F67B-9437-4CFC-9CA1-EEFDB1D8D57A@zigg.com>
References: <F4404143-AF82-4BB7-BB8F-408E59852FB8@zigg.com>
 <CAJd2Bx8g6GCFLT27EeRW8pTcO6zp34bA7O0ozPWaJNKFXHOQ1g@mail.gmail.com>
 <F1B682FD-5590-4C44-A57B-543FEA5662BF@zigg.com>
 <1382796480.7493.3.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <8655F67B-9437-4CFC-9CA1-EEFDB1D8D57A@zigg.com>
Message-ID: <a3649f0c-3e44-4b3a-8ae3-818555df592a@email.android.com>

Matt Behrens <matt at zigg.com> wrote:
>On Oct 26, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net>
>wrote:
>> Comcast blocks *all* outgoing connections to port 25 outside of its
>> network.
>Right, so does AT&T.

Tier 2 technical support will remove this restriction, at least on a business account.  No fuss, I've done it twice via the chat support, both times in less than 10 minutes.

>> IOW, any delivery from your DHCP / Dynamic Address, will not work.
>> Unless you have a static IP Address with a Business Account.
>I have my own domain, and how I?ve been getting this to work is via
>AT&T?s relay.  They require an SSL connection (port 993), require you
>to authenticate to use it, and finally also require you to whitelist
>additional email addresses you will be sending mail from (e.g.
>matt at zigg.com.)  But yes, I?m not delivering directly.

Yep.  That works in the number of source addresses is small.  If it is large that is a pain; and I believe there is some limit to the number of addresses you can whitelist.

Alternatively relay through a VPS somewhere else.  I've found putting services on my Linode is the simplest thing to do.


-- 
Adam Tauno Williams

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Sat Oct 26 22:11:24 2013
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 22:11:24 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] korganizer hogging memory
Message-ID: <1382839884.2282.8.camel@ericscomputer>

I'm trying to switch my calendaring from Evolution to KOrganizer, since
it seems to handles the large .ics files (the biggest is about 9MB) much
better--each process in Evo seems to take forever.

But I'm finding that KOganizer is hogging all my memory. Is this
supposed to happen? Is there a solution?

Fresh start (no apps open other than System Monitor).........650MiB
Start KOrganizer (just using the latest (small) calendar which is just
16KB)
 -CPU usage jumps to 95+% for about 2 1/2 minutes
 -Memory use climbs to 3.1 GiB (of 3.5 GiB) and swap to 175 MiB
When I shut down KOrganizer, swap does not change and memory only drops
to 2.1 GiB.

I found this online
(http://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi#Disabling_the_Akonadi_subsystem), but I
don't have a KRunner installed, so it doesn't seem relevant to me.

"If you are experiencing 100% CPU usage by the virtuoso-t process when
using Akonadi and related applications, try this proposed workaround
while it is being investigated: In KRunner's configuration page, disable
the Nepomuk search plugin and the Contact plugin. Then, log out and back
in."

Any suggestions?

Thanks.


From topher at codeventure.net  Sun Oct 27 19:29:51 2013
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:29:51 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] sound card questions
Message-ID: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>

I have this machine:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02628226&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5049513

All in all I've been very happy with it, but the audio recording is very
static-ey.  It has an onboard audio card.

I'm running Arch Linux, and ALSA.  I've tried OSS and Pulse, no luck. 
I've tried different mics, and both mic ports on the box (one on the
front, one on the back).

I've read lots and lots of docs, both on the Arch wiki and the ALSA pages.

You guys are my last hope, any ideas?

Related, if I can't make it work, I'll probably just buy a new
soundcard.  How hard is it to make Linux be happy with 2 sound cards in
the box, using the right one for the right things?

Topher

From topher at codeventure.net  Sun Oct 27 19:32:46 2013
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 19:32:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
Message-ID: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>

I need a new laptop, and I have some pretty specific desires.

1. very thin.  I'd get a mac book air if it had normal hardware.

2. I'd really love for it to push my 30" monitor at 2560x1600 so I could
use it exclusively

3. the rest is pretty normal these days.  tons of ram, SSD drive etc.

I'm looking pretty hard at the Lenovo X1 Carbon, it does everything I
want.  I talked with someone about the monitor and they said the display
port can translate to DVI-D, which is what the monitor needs.

Are there any other options I should be looking at?

From lord.drachenblut at gmail.com  Sun Oct 27 19:35:49 2013
From: lord.drachenblut at gmail.com (Lord Drachenblut)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 23:35:49 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>

You might give a look at some of the offerings of system 76 or zareason.
They have some really incredible machines that might fit your needs
On Oct 27, 2013 7:33 PM, "Topher" <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:

> I need a new laptop, and I have some pretty specific desires.
>
> 1. very thin.  I'd get a mac book air if it had normal hardware.
>
> 2. I'd really love for it to push my 30" monitor at 2560x1600 so I could
> use it exclusively
>
> 3. the rest is pretty normal these days.  tons of ram, SSD drive etc.
>
> I'm looking pretty hard at the Lenovo X1 Carbon, it does everything I
> want.  I talked with someone about the monitor and they said the display
> port can translate to DVI-D, which is what the monitor needs.
>
> Are there any other options I should be looking at?
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From lord.drachenblut at gmail.com  Sun Oct 27 19:38:18 2013
From: lord.drachenblut at gmail.com (Lord Drachenblut)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 23:38:18 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] sound card questions
In-Reply-To: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>
References: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <CAG58yKu4gPMTOoTmS_OpF++Z0CB7hHvzji0riywUKm7sqTGAjA@mail.gmail.com>

Depending on your audio recording needs I can recommend this microphone
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001R747SG.  It's has USB and XLR outputs as
well as a monitor plug on it for the included headphones
On Oct 27, 2013 7:30 PM, "Topher" <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:

> I have this machine:
>
> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02628226&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5049513
>
> All in all I've been very happy with it, but the audio recording is very
> static-ey.  It has an onboard audio card.
>
> I'm running Arch Linux, and ALSA.  I've tried OSS and Pulse, no luck.
> I've tried different mics, and both mic ports on the box (one on the
> front, one on the back).
>
> I've read lots and lots of docs, both on the Arch wiki and the ALSA pages.
>
> You guys are my last hope, any ideas?
>
> Related, if I can't make it work, I'll probably just buy a new
> soundcard.  How hard is it to make Linux be happy with 2 sound cards in
> the box, using the right one for the right things?
>
> Topher
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From leapole at gmail.com  Sun Oct 27 20:16:49 2013
From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 17:16:49 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] sound card questions
In-Reply-To: <CAG58yKu4gPMTOoTmS_OpF++Z0CB7hHvzji0riywUKm7sqTGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu4gPMTOoTmS_OpF++Z0CB7hHvzji0riywUKm7sqTGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <127A11C6-8901-4F9E-B330-6156815E48FE@gmail.com>

Get an external card and disable your  onboard in the bios.


No reason to mess with two sound cards unless you have a reason and I recommend external sounds cards due to electric noise in the computer ( it's crazy but hey if you are already buying something it best to listen to the crazy people

> On Oct 27, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Lord Drachenblut <lord.drachenblut at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Depending on your audio recording needs I can recommend this microphone http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001R747SG.  It's has USB and XLR outputs as well as a monitor plug on it for the included headphones
> 
>> On Oct 27, 2013 7:30 PM, "Topher" <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:
>> I have this machine:
>> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02628226&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5049513
>> 
>> All in all I've been very happy with it, but the audio recording is very
>> static-ey.  It has an onboard audio card.
>> 
>> I'm running Arch Linux, and ALSA.  I've tried OSS and Pulse, no luck.
>> I've tried different mics, and both mic ports on the box (one on the
>> front, one on the back).
>> 
>> I've read lots and lots of docs, both on the Arch wiki and the ALSA pages.
>> 
>> You guys are my last hope, any ideas?
>> 
>> Related, if I can't make it work, I'll probably just buy a new
>> soundcard.  How hard is it to make Linux be happy with 2 sound cards in
>> the box, using the right one for the right things?
>> 
>> Topher
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Oct 27 20:37:59 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 20:37:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] sound card questions
In-Reply-To: <127A11C6-8901-4F9E-B330-6156815E48FE@gmail.com>
References: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu4gPMTOoTmS_OpF++Z0CB7hHvzji0riywUKm7sqTGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <127A11C6-8901-4F9E-B330-6156815E48FE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131028003759.GA11947@rondo.celtics>

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 05:16:49PM -0700, Josh wrote:
> > On Oct 27, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Lord Drachenblut
> > <lord.drachenblut at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Depending on your audio recording needs I can recommend this
> > microphone http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001R747SG.  It's has USB
> > and XLR outputs as well as a monitor plug on it for the included
> > headphones
> > 
> >> On Oct 27, 2013 7:30 PM, "Topher" <topher at codeventure.net> wrote: I
> >> have this machine:
> >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02628226&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5049513
> >> 
> >> All in all I've been very happy with it, but the audio recording is
> >> very static-ey.  It has an onboard audio card.
> >> 
> >> I'm running Arch Linux, and ALSA.  I've tried OSS and Pulse, no
> >> luck.  I've tried different mics, and both mic ports on the box
> >> (one on the front, one on the back).
> >> 
> >> I've read lots and lots of docs, both on the Arch wiki and the ALSA
> >> pages.
> >> 
> >> You guys are my last hope, any ideas?
> >> 
> >> Related, if I can't make it work, I'll probably just buy a new
> >> soundcard.  How hard is it to make Linux be happy with 2 sound
> >> cards in the box, using the right one for the right things?
> >> 
> Get an external card and disable your  onboard in the bios.
> 
> No reason to mess with two sound cards unless you have a reason and I
> recommend external sounds cards due to electric noise in the computer
> ( it's crazy but hey if you are already buying something it best to
> listen to the crazy people

It is very unlikely that your problem is a software problem (ALSA,
Pulse, etc.).

I have to record audio weekly. Recording via a laptop is noisy, period.
(I suppose high-end hardware is available that is protected from
electrical noise.) In the end we went with an inexpensive (but high
quality) external sound recorder.
-- 
john-thomas
------
The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It
will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977)

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Oct 27 20:39:29 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 20:39:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 11:35:49PM +0000, Lord Drachenblut wrote:
> On Oct 27, 2013 7:33 PM, "Topher" <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:
> 
> > I need a new laptop, and I have some pretty specific desires.
> >
> > 1. very thin.  I'd get a mac book air if it had normal hardware.
> >
> > 2. I'd really love for it to push my 30" monitor at 2560x1600 so I could
> > use it exclusively
> >
> > 3. the rest is pretty normal these days.  tons of ram, SSD drive etc.
> >
> > I'm looking pretty hard at the Lenovo X1 Carbon, it does everything I
> > want.  I talked with someone about the monitor and they said the display
> > port can translate to DVI-D, which is what the monitor needs.
> >
> > Are there any other options I should be looking at?
> > 
> You might give a look at some of the offerings of system 76 or zareason.
> They have some really incredible machines that might fit your needs

For what it's worth, System 76 is considerably less expensive for
similar hardware specs. I have a couple of their machines and am quite
pleased with the quality.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Cautious, careful people, always casting about to preserve their reputation
and social standing, never can bring about a reform. Those who are really
in earnest must be willing to be anything or nothing in the world's
estimation.
Susan B. Anthony, reformer and suffragist (1820-1906)

From topher at codeventure.net  Sun Oct 27 21:00:34 2013
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:00:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
Message-ID: <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>

On 10/27/2013 08:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> For what it's worth, System 76 is considerably less expensive for
> similar hardware specs. I have a couple of their machines and am quite
> pleased with the quality. 

I talked to them, and they simply don't support DVI-D, so no big
monitor.  :(

From topher at codeventure.net  Sun Oct 27 21:01:31 2013
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:01:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] sound card questions
In-Reply-To: <20131028003759.GA11947@rondo.celtics>
References: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu4gPMTOoTmS_OpF++Z0CB7hHvzji0riywUKm7sqTGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <127A11C6-8901-4F9E-B330-6156815E48FE@gmail.com>
 <20131028003759.GA11947@rondo.celtics>
Message-ID: <526DB76B.7090305@codeventure.net>

On 10/27/2013 08:37 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> It is very unlikely that your problem is a software problem (ALSA,
> Pulse, etc.). I have to record audio weekly. Recording via a laptop is
> noisy, period. (I suppose high-end hardware is available that is
> protected from electrical noise.) In the end we went with an
> inexpensive (but high quality) external sound recorder. 

This is my desktop I'm working on.  At this point I'd doing all my video
conferencing and recording on my laptop because it's so much quieter.  :)

From topher at codeventure.net  Sun Oct 27 21:03:34 2013
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:03:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] sound card questions
In-Reply-To: <127A11C6-8901-4F9E-B330-6156815E48FE@gmail.com>
References: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu4gPMTOoTmS_OpF++Z0CB7hHvzji0riywUKm7sqTGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <127A11C6-8901-4F9E-B330-6156815E48FE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <526DB7E6.5070603@codeventure.net>

On 10/27/2013 08:16 PM, Josh wrote:
> Get an external card and disable your  onboard in the bios.
>
>
> No reason to mess with two sound cards unless you have a reason and I
> recommend external sounds cards due to electric noise in the computer
> ( it's crazy but hey if you are already buying something it best to
> listen to the crazy people

I'd never even heard of an external card.  I found some for as little as
$29 at best buy.  I see they're USB, how does Linux see them?  Are they
fairly well supported?
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From lord.drachenblut at gmail.com  Sun Oct 27 21:07:57 2013
From: lord.drachenblut at gmail.com (Lord Drachenblut)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 01:07:57 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>

you can always do HDMI to DVI-D I believe


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:

> On 10/27/2013 08:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > For what it's worth, System 76 is considerably less expensive for
> > similar hardware specs. I have a couple of their machines and am quite
> > pleased with the quality.
>
> I talked to them, and they simply don't support DVI-D, so no big
> monitor.  :(
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Mettle not in the Ways of dragons for thou art crunchy and taste good with
ketchup
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From lord.drachenblut at gmail.com  Sun Oct 27 21:09:04 2013
From: lord.drachenblut at gmail.com (Lord Drachenblut)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 01:09:04 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] sound card questions
In-Reply-To: <526DB7E6.5070603@codeventure.net>
References: <526DA1EF.9080602@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu4gPMTOoTmS_OpF++Z0CB7hHvzji0riywUKm7sqTGAjA@mail.gmail.com>
 <127A11C6-8901-4F9E-B330-6156815E48FE@gmail.com>
 <526DB7E6.5070603@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <CAG58yKsRMwL19TGb8GEXV2oTyTALaZ+wDcdN3hQoskKHtM3n3Q@mail.gmail.com>

all the USB sound cards I have used have just worked under linux, but I
would still recommend picking one and then doing some searching to see if
it's supported.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:03 AM, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:

>  On 10/27/2013 08:16 PM, Josh wrote:
>
> Get an external card and disable your  onboard in the bios.
>
>
>  No reason to mess with two sound cards unless you have a reason and I
> recommend external sounds cards due to electric noise in the computer (
> it's crazy but hey if you are already buying something it best to listen to
> the crazy people
>
>
> I'd never even heard of an external card.  I found some for as little as
> $29 at best buy.  I see they're USB, how does Linux see them?  Are they
> fairly well supported?
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Mettle not in the Ways of dragons for thou art crunchy and taste good with
ketchup
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Oct 27 21:12:02 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:12:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <20131028011202.GC11947@rondo.celtics>

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 09:00:34PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> On 10/27/2013 08:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > For what it's worth, System 76 is considerably less expensive for
> > similar hardware specs. I have a couple of their machines and am quite
> > pleased with the quality. 
> 
> I talked to them, and they simply don't support DVI-D, so no big
> monitor.  :(

I use a DVI-D connector five or six times a week with my System 76
laptop and it's a couple years old. I wonder why they don't offer it
anymore. What about HDMI? Adapters are inexpensive.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a
troublesome servant and a fearful master.  Never for a moment should it be
left to irresponsible action.
George Washington, first US President (1732-1799)

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Oct 27 21:13:23 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:13:23 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 01:07:57AM +0000, Lord Drachenblut wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:
> > On 10/27/2013 08:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > > For what it's worth, System 76 is considerably less expensive for
> > > similar hardware specs. I have a couple of their machines and am quite
> > > pleased with the quality.
> >
> > I talked to them, and they simply don't support DVI-D, so no big
> > monitor.  :(
> you can always do HDMI to DVI-D I believe

I believe they are electrically compatible. Either way, HDMI-->DVI-D
adapters work fine.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's
troublesome.
Isaac Asimov, science-fiction writer (1920-1992)

From topher at codeventure.net  Sun Oct 27 21:26:46 2013
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:26:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics> <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
Message-ID: <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>

On 10/27/2013 09:13 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> I believe they are electrically compatible. Either way, HDMI-->DVI-D
> adapters work fine.

This one actually looks pretty cool, releases tomorrow:
https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/daru4

I'll probably call them and ask about the resolution etc.  They'll
probably have to send me a free one for testing.  ;)

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Oct 27 21:49:32 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 21:49:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>

On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 09:26:46PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> On 10/27/2013 09:13 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > I believe they are electrically compatible. Either way, HDMI-->DVI-D
> > adapters work fine.
> 
> This one actually looks pretty cool, releases tomorrow:
> https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/daru4
> 
> I'll probably call them and ask about the resolution etc.  They'll
> probably have to send me a free one for testing.  ;)

I was going to recommend that one to you since you mentioned the MacBook
Air. Upgrading from an i5 1.4GHz to an i7 2.4GHz is only $89. That would
be well worth it. :) Looks like a nice laptop.
-- 
john-thomas
------
The trade of governing has always been monopolized by the most ignorant and
the most rascally individuals of mankind.
Thomas Paine, philosopher and writer (1737-1809)

From richardnienhuis at gmail.com  Mon Oct 28 07:21:17 2013
From: richardnienhuis at gmail.com (Richard Nienhuis)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:21:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
 <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
Message-ID: <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>

The 2013 13" MBP is only about .03" inches thicker and half a pound heavier
than a 13" air.


On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:49 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 09:26:46PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> > On 10/27/2013 09:13 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > > I believe they are electrically compatible. Either way, HDMI-->DVI-D
> > > adapters work fine.
> >
> > This one actually looks pretty cool, releases tomorrow:
> > https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/daru4
> >
> > I'll probably call them and ask about the resolution etc.  They'll
> > probably have to send me a free one for testing.  ;)
>
> I was going to recommend that one to you since you mentioned the MacBook
> Air. Upgrading from an i5 1.4GHz to an i7 2.4GHz is only $89. That would
> be well worth it. :) Looks like a nice laptop.
> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> The trade of governing has always been monopolized by the most ignorant and
> the most rascally individuals of mankind.
> Thomas Paine, philosopher and writer (1737-1809)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Oct 28 07:47:47 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:47:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
 <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131028114747.GG11947@rondo.celtics>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 07:21:17AM -0400, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
> The 2013 13" MBP is only about .03" inches thicker and half a pound heavier
> than a 13" air.

Surely you mean .3", not .03". Right? I'm not sure how .03" would lead
to a half pound increase.
-- 
john-thomas
------
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of
fighting a foreign enemy.
James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)

From signals42 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 28 07:54:53 2013
From: signals42 at gmail.com (Kevin McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:54:53 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <20131028114747.GG11947@rondo.celtics>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
 <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028114747.GG11947@rondo.celtics>
Message-ID: <CAFoUb4RnQJmKuufLSrY9JSN7ABormYDYnKu+G=woS9ns_TFJqA@mail.gmail.com>

According to apple:

Macbook Air - 0.11"-0.68" thick, and 2.96 lbs.
13" Macbook Pro - 0.95" thick, and 4.5 lbs.

So, .3" thicker than the Air is at it's thickest point, and 1.5 lbs heavier.



On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:47 AM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 07:21:17AM -0400, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
> > The 2013 13" MBP is only about .03" inches thicker and half a pound
> heavier
> > than a 13" air.
>
> Surely you mean .3", not .03". Right? I'm not sure how .03" would lead
> to a half pound increase.
> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of
> fighting a foreign enemy.
> James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From richardnienhuis at gmail.com  Mon Oct 28 07:59:09 2013
From: richardnienhuis at gmail.com (Richard Nienhuis)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 07:59:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CAFoUb4RnQJmKuufLSrY9JSN7ABormYDYnKu+G=woS9ns_TFJqA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
 <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028114747.GG11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAFoUb4RnQJmKuufLSrY9JSN7ABormYDYnKu+G=woS9ns_TFJqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJd2Bx-k_spf9xW44qWHWCV++pw_vV9dsFAbPo_TDz=z8n2VkQ@mail.gmail.com>

Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
Width: 12.35 inches (31.4 cm)
Depth: 8.62 inches (21.9 cm)
Weight: 3.46 pounds (1.57 kg)

That is for the current 13" MBP-Retina.  You might be looking at old stats.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Kevin McCarthy <signals42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> According to apple:
>
> Macbook Air - 0.11"-0.68" thick, and 2.96 lbs.
> 13" Macbook Pro - 0.95" thick, and 4.5 lbs.
>
> So, .3" thicker than the Air is at it's thickest point, and 1.5 lbs
> heavier.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:47 AM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 07:21:17AM -0400, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
>> > The 2013 13" MBP is only about .03" inches thicker and half a pound
>> heavier
>> > than a 13" air.
>>
>> Surely you mean .3", not .03". Right? I'm not sure how .03" would lead
>> to a half pound increase.
>> --
>> john-thomas
>> ------
>> If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of
>> fighting a foreign enemy.
>> James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Oct 28 08:16:09 2013
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:16:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CAJd2Bx-k_spf9xW44qWHWCV++pw_vV9dsFAbPo_TDz=z8n2VkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
 <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028114747.GG11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAFoUb4RnQJmKuufLSrY9JSN7ABormYDYnKu+G=woS9ns_TFJqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJd2Bx-k_spf9xW44qWHWCV++pw_vV9dsFAbPo_TDz=z8n2VkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131028121609.GH11947@rondo.celtics>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 07:59:09AM -0400, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
> Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
> Width: 12.35 inches (31.4 cm)
> Depth: 8.62 inches (21.9 cm)
> Weight: 3.46 pounds (1.57 kg)
> 
> That is for the current 13" MBP-Retina.  You might be looking at old
> stats.
[snip]

Almost makes me want a MBP. Almost. But how do they do that? 
-- 
john-thomas
------
It was our own moral failure and not any accident of chance, that while
preserving the appearance of the Republic we lost its reality.
Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43BC)

From signals42 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 28 08:17:48 2013
From: signals42 at gmail.com (Kevin McCarthy)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:17:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <CAJd2Bx-k_spf9xW44qWHWCV++pw_vV9dsFAbPo_TDz=z8n2VkQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <526DA29E.3060302@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKu9=qxLRf2EvjmgMahcSaOVYiPgUj3VN4bTRrrg5LhbAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
 <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028114747.GG11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAFoUb4RnQJmKuufLSrY9JSN7ABormYDYnKu+G=woS9ns_TFJqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJd2Bx-k_spf9xW44qWHWCV++pw_vV9dsFAbPo_TDz=z8n2VkQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFoUb4QZ5WrfcJsrEEhQDjH1UdeSb72Et3TTVc-KOaZV8uT9ug@mail.gmail.com>

Probably. I got them from Apple's site, but maybe they've released a new
version and haven't updated it yet. I haven't been following Apple because
I don't think I'm ever buying anything that says "Apple" on it again. ;-)

Of course the 0.03" difference is at the thickest point, and since a
Macbook Air is tapered to 0.11" at its thinnest point, it seems reasonable
that the Pro would be 0.5 lb heavier because it's that thick all the way
across.



On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:59 AM, Richard Nienhuis <richardnienhuis at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
> Width: 12.35 inches (31.4 cm)
> Depth: 8.62 inches (21.9 cm)
> Weight: 3.46 pounds (1.57 kg)
>
> That is for the current 13" MBP-Retina.  You might be looking at old stats.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Kevin McCarthy <signals42 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> According to apple:
>>
>> Macbook Air - 0.11"-0.68" thick, and 2.96 lbs.
>> 13" Macbook Pro - 0.95" thick, and 4.5 lbs.
>>
>> So, .3" thicker than the Air is at it's thickest point, and 1.5 lbs
>> heavier.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:47 AM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 07:21:17AM -0400, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
>>> > The 2013 13" MBP is only about .03" inches thicker and half a pound
>>> heavier
>>> > than a 13" air.
>>>
>>> Surely you mean .3", not .03". Right? I'm not sure how .03" would lead
>>> to a half pound increase.
>>> --
>>> john-thomas
>>> ------
>>> If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of
>>> fighting a foreign enemy.
>>> James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From brousch at gmail.com  Mon Oct 28 08:19:31 2013
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 08:19:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] laptop suggestions
In-Reply-To: <20131028121609.GH11947@rondo.celtics>
References: <20131028003929.GB11947@rondo.celtics>
 <526DB732.20202@codeventure.net>
 <CAG58yKvy5WP30MTj0mKvAqAkk2AdomkJRtU3yCrqgtrT3cH=Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028011323.GD11947@rondo.celtics> <526DBD56.8020006@codeventure.net>
 <20131028014932.GE11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAJd2Bx9K9PgY54OxaTbSog23bibBtUOu7dMhd5AbBaBV7tMNCQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028114747.GG11947@rondo.celtics>
 <CAFoUb4RnQJmKuufLSrY9JSN7ABormYDYnKu+G=woS9ns_TFJqA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJd2Bx-k_spf9xW44qWHWCV++pw_vV9dsFAbPo_TDz=z8n2VkQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131028121609.GH11947@rondo.celtics>
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB0xSJB-in9oN8=2G+Rq0MhPwxL+32A6vKEtpbE+UaAZ=A@mail.gmail.com>

Keep in mind that Linux drivers on MacBooks can be problematic, especially
if you buy a brand new model. Until the bleeding edge users pick one up and
get everything working, you can be left with partial functionality with
things like cameras, hibernating, and wifi. Even afterwards, you may need
to install some drivers manually.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:16 AM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 07:59:09AM -0400, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
> > Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
> > Width: 12.35 inches (31.4 cm)
> > Depth: 8.62 inches (21.9 cm)
> > Weight: 3.46 pounds (1.57 kg)
> >
> > That is for the current 13" MBP-Retina.  You might be looking at old
> > stats.
> [snip]
>
> Almost makes me want a MBP. Almost. But how do they do that?
> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> It was our own moral failure and not any accident of chance, that while
> preserving the appearance of the Republic we lost its reality.
> Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43BC)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Mon Oct 28 17:11:31 2013
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:11:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] [Fwd: Dr. Who - 50th Anniversary: Not permitted]
Message-ID: <1382994691.28523.4.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>

Bummer! It comes down to a deal with Real 3D blocking everything and
only allowing a number of slots.

GRRR.

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Jeannie Deibis <Jdeibis at celebrationcinema.com>
Subject: Dr. Who - 50th Anniversary: Not permitted
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:06:26 +0000

Good afternoon whovians... please forgive my mass email, but I have some
news...

?As we learn about each other, so we learn about ourselves.?

Celebration! Cinema is so sad to announce that Fathom Events and BBC
will not permit our theatres to play the Dr. Who ? 50th Anniversary 3D
movie event.  They have a special partnership with Real 3D theatres, and
our theatres utilize Master Image 3D systems.

We are very disappointed that we will not be able to play this on the
big screen for you at your favorite Celebration! Cinema (Cinema Carousel
and Studio C!).  We have been trying to book this awesome event since
late summer and, well, we feel a bit gipped over this.

Should anything change, we will keep you posted.  We really need a Time
Lord here to help?

?People spend all their time making nice things and then other people
come along and break them.?

We sure wish those ?other people? had chosen Celebration! Cinema.  Thank
you for your help and voice in reaching out to BBC and Fathom Events on
your own, fingers crossed for a change.


Jeannie Deibis 
Programming Coordinator
Celebration! Cinema
2121 Celebration Drive NE
Grand Rapids, MI 49525
P: (616) 447-4224
F: (616) 447-4201
celebrationcinema.com


-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
"Be brave. Take risks. Nothing can substitute experience."
    -- Paulo Coelho
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct 28 17:29:10 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:29:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

Trying to fix an old CentOS 5.5 server with sendmail, .. I rebuilt the
config, but it is ignoring /etc/hosts and pulling the SMART_HOST IP from
DNS.

This does not work, as the DNS IP is for external users, and the server is
behind the ASA box so it must use the internal IP.

Is there any way to use a preset IP for SMART_HOST?

	Thanks!

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct 28 17:34:10 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:34:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 5:29 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> Trying to fix an old CentOS 5.5 server with sendmail, .. I rebuilt the
> config, but it is ignoring /etc/hosts and pulling the SMART_HOST IP from
> DNS.

http://www.tenox.net/docs/force2smarthost.html

I don't have a CentOS 5.5 system to lookup if this will actually work,
but it is worth a try.

Mark

From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct 28 17:46:34 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:46:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 5:29 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> > Trying to fix an old CentOS 5.5 server with sendmail, .. I rebuilt the
> > config, but it is ignoring /etc/hosts and pulling the SMART_HOST IP from
> > DNS.
>
> http://www.tenox.net/docs/force2smarthost.html
>
> I don't have a CentOS 5.5 system to lookup if this will actually work,
> but it is worth a try.
>
> Mark
>
Only problem is, it does not work. If you put in a hostname for
SMART_HOST, it pulls the DNS entry (which DNW), even if it is set in
/etc/hosts.

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct 28 17:48:53 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:48:53 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>

What is the content of your /etc/mail/service.switch file?

What is in /etc/nsswitch.conf?

Did you rebuild sendmail.cf and restart the service?

Mark

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 5:46 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 5:29 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
>> > Trying to fix an old CentOS 5.5 server with sendmail, .. I rebuilt the
>> > config, but it is ignoring /etc/hosts and pulling the SMART_HOST IP from
>> > DNS.
>>
>> http://www.tenox.net/docs/force2smarthost.html
>>
>> I don't have a CentOS 5.5 system to lookup if this will actually work,
>> but it is worth a try.
>>
>> Mark
>>
> Only problem is, it does not work. If you put in a hostname for
> SMART_HOST, it pulls the DNS entry (which DNW), even if it is set in
> /etc/hosts.
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct 28 18:13:42 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:13:42 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:

> What is the content of your /etc/mail/service.switch file?
>
Not present.

> What is in /etc/nsswitch.conf?
>
Not present.

> Did you rebuild sendmail.cf and restart the service?
>
Of course, .. many times.

Finally got it to actually USE /etc/hosts with the hostname "nospam", ..
but it eventually rejects with a "reason: 504 Need Fully Qualified
Address".

While I can understand sendmail complying with the RFCs with a full DNS
query [bypassing /etc/hosts], it's also pretty dumb that there is no way
to create a bypass when the public IP is not accessible.

The firewall is an ASA box which I do not control, and the chap that runs
it said there is now way to create an internal zone like dnsmasq would
provide.

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct 28 18:31:39 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:31:39 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M4H4gMRj6MxjU8gkxy73SfFGP+ssJ-guhMe_b7RsFnr4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:13 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:
>> What is in /etc/nsswitch.conf?
>>
> Not present.

I don't think I've ever seen a CentOS system without a nsswitch.conf
file.  I think the default when the file is not present is DNS then
files (/etc/hosts).  You'll want to put the shipped file back in place
(possibly by reinstalling libnss) and make sure the "hosts:" line is
files then dns.

Mark

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Mon Oct 28 18:33:48 2013
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:33:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>

On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 17:13 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:
> 
> > What is the content of your /etc/mail/service.switch file?
> >
> Not present.

Also not present on my CentOS 5.x machines.

> > What is in /etc/nsswitch.conf?
> >
> Not present.

Hmmm Troubling.

# rpm -q --whatprovides /etc/nsswitch.conf 
glibc-2.5-107.el5_9.5.i686
glibc-2.5-107.el5_9.5.x86_64

So, you don't have glibc installed? Are we sure this is a CentOS 5.X
machine?

> > Did you rebuild sendmail.cf and restart the service?
> >
> Of course, .. many times.
> 
> Finally got it to actually USE /etc/hosts with the hostname "nospam", ..
> but it eventually rejects with a "reason: 504 Need Fully Qualified
> Address".
> 
> While I can understand sendmail complying with the RFCs with a full DNS
> query [bypassing /etc/hosts], it's also pretty dumb that there is no way
> to create a bypass when the public IP is not accessible.
> 
> The firewall is an ASA box which I do not control, and the chap that runs
> it said there is now way to create an internal zone like dnsmasq would
> provide.

In the /etc/sendmail.cf 

        # "Smart" relay host (may be null)
        DSmail.somedomain.dom


This entry along with this entry in /etc/hosts must MATCH

        12.34.56.78 mail.somedomain.dom mail

As well as getting /etc/hosts to be read this setting
in /etc/nsswitch.conf must be there:

        #hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
        hosts:      files dns

Once you figure out why /etc/nsswitch.conf is gone... I'd re-install the
RPM package (if needed available at http://vault.centos.org/5.5/  )
Then, restarting the machine. This missing probably explains why it is
not recognizing "hosts".

Then rebuild the sendmail.cf once configured and it should be right,
unless you are still forcing DNS checks first, which by default sendmail
follows nsswitch.conf configs.

-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
"Be brave. Take risks. Nothing can substitute experience."
    -- Paulo Coelho
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct 28 18:43:06 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 17:43:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

> In the /etc/sendmail.cf
>
>         # "Smart" relay host (may be null)
>         DSmail.somedomain.dom
>
Sending chokes if the entry is NOT a FQDN, ..

> As well as getting /etc/hosts to be read this setting
> in /etc/nsswitch.conf must be there:
>
>       #hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
>        hosts:      files dns
>
Ahh, .. missed the location. That is the current setting:

#hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
hosts:      files dns

> Then, restarting the machine. This missing probably explains why it is
> not recognizing "hosts".
>
Ahh, .. this is not a Windoze server <g>!! service works just fine for
restarting (is there some reason you assume it would not?).

>From what I have seen online, sendmail does require a DNS lookup for full
RFC compliance, so one can't knock it for running as expected.

What I don't understand is why there isn't an option to bypass if required
by the network configuration.

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct 28 18:50:36 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:50:36 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>

Another article, this one specifically says that
/etc/mail/service.switch has to be created and a line added to
sendmail.cf referencing it.

http://devnull.crapules.com/2008/04/04/setup-sendmail-without-dns

A reboot isn't usually required when changing /etc/nsswitch.conf.
Libc will pick up on the change immediately.  One notable exception is
if nscd is running it will cache the nsswitch.conf file.  Restarting
it will reload the file.  Redhat based distros usually have nscd
running by default.

Mark

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:13 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:
>
>> What is the content of your /etc/mail/service.switch file?
>>
> Not present.
>
>> What is in /etc/nsswitch.conf?
>>
> Not present.
>
>> Did you rebuild sendmail.cf and restart the service?
>>
> Of course, .. many times.
>
> Finally got it to actually USE /etc/hosts with the hostname "nospam", ..
> but it eventually rejects with a "reason: 504 Need Fully Qualified
> Address".
>
> While I can understand sendmail complying with the RFCs with a full DNS
> query [bypassing /etc/hosts], it's also pretty dumb that there is no way
> to create a bypass when the public IP is not accessible.
>
> The firewall is an ASA box which I do not control, and the chap that runs
> it said there is now way to create an internal zone like dnsmasq would
> provide.
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Mon Oct 28 18:52:17 2013
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:52:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>

On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 17:43 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> > In the /etc/sendmail.cf
> >
> >         # "Smart" relay host (may be null)
> >         DSmail.somedomain.dom
> >
> Sending chokes if the entry is NOT a FQDN, ..

YES a Fully Qualified Domain Name is NOT "mail" it would be
"mail.somedomain.dom"

I have some of my machines going to an alternate server in my network.
It is only listed in /etc/hosts... listed as a FULLY QUALIFIED ENTRY.

JUST LIKE I INCLUDED IN THE PREVIOUS MESSAGE.

> > As well as getting /etc/hosts to be read this setting
> > in /etc/nsswitch.conf must be there:
> >
> >       #hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
> >        hosts:      files dns
> >
> Ahh, .. missed the location. That is the current setting:


> #hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
> hosts:      files dns
> 
> > Then, restarting the machine. This missing probably explains why it is
> > not recognizing "hosts".
> >
> Ahh, .. this is not a Windoze server <g>!! service works just fine for
> restarting (is there some reason you assume it would not?).
>
>
> From what I have seen online, sendmail does require a DNS lookup for full
> RFC compliance, so one can't knock it for running as expected.
> 
> What I don't understand is why there isn't an option to bypass if required
> by the network configuration.

You obviously don't understand, that DNS lookups are cached by default
in memory by the kernel. Unless you know how to purge that cache,
restarting is the easiest way.

Well... OK, you refuse to follow what I said and argue with me. I;ve
been using sendmail for nearly 15 years and Exim for about 12.

I'm out.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
"Be brave. Take risks. Nothing can substitute experience."
    -- Paulo Coelho
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct 28 19:30:34 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:30:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

> Well... OK, you refuse to follow what I said and argue with me. I;ve
> been using sendmail for nearly 15 years and Exim for about 12.
>
OK, then, how about going back to the original question - how does one
configure a smarthost if the FQDN is not valid?

	Lee

From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct 28 19:51:33 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 18:51:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:

> Another article, this one specifically says that
> /etc/mail/service.switch has to be created and a line added to
> sendmail.cf referencing it.
>
> http://devnull.crapules.com/2008/04/04/setup-sendmail-without-dns
>
Bingo! Looks like it is finally using the IP from /etc/hosts!

Unfortunately, the changes seem to be forcing TLS, which is unavailable:

=======

Oct 28 18:47:35 WTWeb sendmail[21565]: STARTTLS=client,
relay=nospam.xpresshost.net, version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
cipher=AES256-SHA, bits=256/256

Oct 28 18:47:35 WTWeb sendmail[21565]: r9SNlZf1021563:
to=<lvl at omnitec.net>, ctladdr=<lvl at WTWeb> (900/900), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=120321, relay=nospam.xpresshost.net
[192.168.253.200], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable

Oct 28 18:47:35 WTWeb sendmail[21565]: r9SNlZf1021563: r9SNlZf1021565:
DSN: Service unavailable

=======

I am not that familiar with TLS and sendmail - does this mean that TLS is
not available, or something else?

	Thanks!!!

	Lee

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Mon Oct 28 19:55:01 2013
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:55:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1383004501.28523.34.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>

On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 18:30 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> > Well... OK, you refuse to follow what I said and argue with me. I;ve
> > been using sendmail for nearly 15 years and Exim for about 12.
> >
> OK, then, how about going back to the original question - how does one
> configure a smarthost if the FQDN is not valid?

RTFM

        man hosts

Hope that helps.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
"Be brave. Take risks. Nothing can substitute experience."
    -- Paulo Coelho
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From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct 28 19:55:41 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:55:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M486jCoKrr6qmiWz7XUC==Api285iN5HEUNexoneCxyBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:30 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
>> Well... OK, you refuse to follow what I said and argue with me. I;ve
>> been using sendmail for nearly 15 years and Exim for about 12.
>>
> OK, then, how about going back to the original question - how does one
> configure a smarthost if the FQDN is not valid?

My recommendation: install the sstmp rpm package (it is available from
EPEL) and remove sendmail.  ssmtp is happy to accept a IP address for
its smarthost.  It does not handle mail delivery and thus it is much
simpler to configure.  If you don't uninstall sendmail use the
alternatives command to switch the sendmail binary symlink to use the
ssmtp one.  Postfix too should handle an IP in the relayhost field.

If you don't find your answer in the above thread or this message, I
recommend you consider hiring someone for the work.  Sendmail has its
charms, but ease of use isn't one of them.  Fortunately there are many
people who have a deep and painfully acquired understanding of it, I
can point you to several if you wish.  .

Mark

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Mon Oct 28 19:56:16 2013
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:56:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1383004576.28523.35.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>

On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 18:51 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:
> 
> > Another article, this one specifically says that
> > /etc/mail/service.switch has to be created and a line added to
> > sendmail.cf referencing it.
> >
> > http://devnull.crapules.com/2008/04/04/setup-sendmail-without-dns
> >
> Bingo! Looks like it is finally using the IP from /etc/hosts!
> 
> Unfortunately, the changes seem to be forcing TLS, which is unavailable:


ALL mail servers start with TLS and unless you have the "smarthost"
configured incorrectly, it will fallback to a regular connection.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
"Be brave. Take risks. Nothing can substitute experience."
    -- Paulo Coelho
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Oct 28 20:04:30 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 19:04:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <1383004576.28523.35.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383004576.28523.35.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281903400.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

> ALL mail servers start with TLS and unless you have the "smarthost"
> configured incorrectly, it will fallback to a regular connection.
>
That's what I thought, .. but, then, why would it timeout? The server is
there, and responds correctly to all other internal servers.

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Mon Oct 28 20:04:55 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 20:04:55 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M61Y33Rj6TE-ZpQoMOuTR-b6yZDHfi2D277tRF-DrxobQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:51 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> Oct 28 18:47:35 WTWeb sendmail[21565]: STARTTLS=client,
> relay=nospam.xpresshost.net, version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
> cipher=AES256-SHA, bits=256/256

Your copy of sendmail was unable to verify the certificate presented
by the smarthost.  This is becuase it is self signed, or signed by a
CA that is not configured on your system.


Fetch the certs used by the remote server (this is not very secure):
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7885785/using-openssl-to-get-the-certificate-from-a-server

openssl s_client -showcerts -connect <smarthost_IP:port> </dev/null

You'll need to specify the file you put those certs into:
http://www.novosial.org/sendmail/tls-relay/index.html

dnl Certificate Authority file & directory (for verifying other sites)
define(`confCACERT', `CERT_DIR/cacert.pem')
define(`confCACERT_PATH', `CERT_DIR/CA')

Mark

From jjesse at gmail.com  Mon Oct 28 21:42:00 2013
From: jjesse at gmail.com (Jonathan Jesse)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:42:00 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] [Fwd: Dr. Who - 50th Anniversary: Not permitted]
In-Reply-To: <1382994691.28523.4.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
References: <1382994691.28523.4.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <CAEmRL8UORW1vj4BaTtOb-J4fn1c2tuJOZi9r56oP53F0OH1ezA@mail.gmail.com>

well that sucks, guess we have to all road trip to chicago?


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:

> Bummer! It comes down to a deal with Real 3D blocking everything and
> only allowing a number of slots.
>
> GRRR.
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Jeannie Deibis <Jdeibis at celebrationcinema.com>
> Subject: Dr. Who - 50th Anniversary: Not permitted
> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 21:06:26 +0000
>
> Good afternoon whovians... please forgive my mass email, but I have some
> news...
>
> ?As we learn about each other, so we learn about ourselves.?
>
> Celebration! Cinema is so sad to announce that Fathom Events and BBC
> will not permit our theatres to play the Dr. Who ? 50th Anniversary 3D
> movie event.  They have a special partnership with Real 3D theatres, and
> our theatres utilize Master Image 3D systems.
>
> We are very disappointed that we will not be able to play this on the
> big screen for you at your favorite Celebration! Cinema (Cinema Carousel
> and Studio C!).  We have been trying to book this awesome event since
> late summer and, well, we feel a bit gipped over this.
>
> Should anything change, we will keep you posted.  We really need a Time
> Lord here to help?
>
> ?People spend all their time making nice things and then other people
> come along and break them.?
>
> We sure wish those ?other people? had chosen Celebration! Cinema.  Thank
> you for your help and voice in reaching out to BBC and Fathom Events on
> your own, fingers crossed for a change.
>
>
> Jeannie Deibis
> Programming Coordinator
> Celebration! Cinema
> 2121 Celebration Drive NE
> Grand Rapids, MI 49525
> P: (616) 447-4224
> F: (616) 447-4201
> celebrationcinema.com
>
>
> --
> greg at gregfolkert.net
> PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
> Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
> "Be brave. Take risks. Nothing can substitute experience."
>     -- Paulo Coelho
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From awilliam at whitemice.org  Tue Oct 29 08:32:06 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 08:32:06 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <1383004501.28523.34.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383004501.28523.34.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <1383049926.3541.4.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 19:55 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 18:30 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> > > Well... OK, you refuse to follow what I said and argue with me. I;ve
> > > been using sendmail for nearly 15 years and Exim for about 12.
> > OK, then, how about going back to the original question - how does one
> > configure a smarthost if the FQDN is not valid?
> RTFM

It is very well documented that mail *REQUIRES* working DNS; much like
Kerberos.  No DNS then no mail, no authentication, ....  This should be
considered a hard requirement;  the solution is to fix your name
resolution.  Either use a valid FQDN or make the FQDN valid.

The simplest [and it is very simple] solution is to run a bind instance
and configure the server to use that for DNS.  Bind is simple to
configure and local DNS has a million and one advantages.

If you have an 'internal' domain that domain should be resolvable
internally.

Fixing DNS to work in an expected normal manner is much simpler than
hacking your way around having broken DNS.


-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Tue Oct 29 08:36:15 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 08:36:15 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1383050175.3541.7.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 18:51 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:
> > Another article, this one specifically says that
> > /etc/mail/service.switch has to be created and a line added to
> > sendmail.cf referencing it.
> > http://devnull.crapules.com/2008/04/04/setup-sendmail-without-dns
> Bingo! Looks like it is finally using the IP from /etc/hosts!
> Unfortunately, the changes seem to be forcing TLS, which is unavailable:

Nothing at that URL looks like it relates to SSL/TLS.  I'd guess that
you already had it configured to do that, and as it is now 'working' you
are just on to the next broken thing.

> Oct 28 18:47:35 WTWeb sendmail[21565]: r9SNlZf1021563: r9SNlZf1021565:
> DSN: Service unavailable
> I am not that familiar with TLS and sendmail - does this mean that TLS
> is not available, or something else?

That is how I would read it; but sendmail is legendary for its opaque
messages.  Can you test performing a TLS connection?

openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect smtp.example.com:25 \
   -crlf -CAfile ~/ca.example.com.pem 

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From awilliam at whitemice.org  Tue Oct 29 08:39:42 2013
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 08:39:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <CACNU6M486jCoKrr6qmiWz7XUC==Api285iN5HEUNexoneCxyBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M486jCoKrr6qmiWz7XUC==Api285iN5HEUNexoneCxyBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1383050382.3541.10.camel@linux-86wr.site>

On Mon, 2013-10-28 at 19:55 -0400, Mark Farver wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:30 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> >> Well... OK, you refuse to follow what I said and argue with me. I;ve
> >> been using sendmail for nearly 15 years and Exim for about 12.
> > OK, then, how about going back to the original question - how does one
> > configure a smarthost if the FQDN is not valid?
> My recommendation: install the sstmp rpm package (it is available from
> EPEL) and remove sendmail.  ssmtp is happy to accept a IP address for
> its smarthost.  It does not handle mail delivery and thus it is much
> simpler to configure.  If you don't uninstall sendmail use the
> alternatives command to switch the sendmail binary symlink to use the
> ssmtp one.  Postfix too should handle an IP in the relayhost field.

I would recommend:

  (a) Killing sendmail; especially if it is just a relay.  Use Postfix,
the configuration is easier, the documentation better, and the logging
better.

<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/2012/02/configuring-postfix-as-smtp-client.html>
    
     Just using Postfix is 'normal'.

  (b) Fix your DNS.  Using an IP address or non-qualified host name is
*bad*.  It will break any form of security as well as introducing
fragility.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams <mailto:awilliam at whitemice.org> GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA


From lvl at omnitec.net  Tue Oct 29 10:37:57 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:37:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <1383049926.3541.4.camel@linux-86wr.site>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1382999628.28523.17.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281738350.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383000737.28523.24.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281826270.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383004501.28523.34.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net>
 <1383049926.3541.4.camel@linux-86wr.site>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310290936040.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> It is very well documented that mail *REQUIRES* working DNS; much like
> Kerberos.  No DNS then no mail, no authentication, ....  This should be
> considered a hard requirement;  the solution is to fix your name
> resolution.  Either use a valid FQDN or make the FQDN valid.
>
Unfortunately, with some firewall configurations that just isn't possible,
so there is no need to harp on it!

Running sendmail without DNS is documented and works, .. now I have to
just figure out how to get it to send the proper hostname:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
root at domain.com
    (reason: 504 Need Fully Qualified Address)
    (expanded from: <root at WTWeb>)
			       ^i.e. WTWeb.domain.com

Thanks!

	Lee

From lvl at omnitec.net  Tue Oct 29 10:40:34 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:40:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <1383050175.3541.7.camel@linux-86wr.site>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383050175.3541.7.camel@linux-86wr.site>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310290938190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> Nothing at that URL looks like it relates to SSL/TLS.  I'd guess that
> you already had it configured to do that, and as it is now 'working' you
> are just on to the next broken thing.
>
Confirmed, .. the TLS error was just notice it was not negotiated. The
only remaining problem is convincing sendmail to use the FQDN from
/etc/hosts or /etc/sysconfig/network:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
root at domain.com
    (reason: 504 Need Fully Qualified Address)
    (expanded from: <root at WTWeb>)
			       ^ i.e. WTWeb.domain.com

> openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect smtp.example.com:25 \
>    -crlf -CAfile ~/ca.example.com.pem
>
Thanks for the reference!

	Lee

From mfarver at mindbent.org  Tue Oct 29 10:49:48 2013
From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 10:49:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310290938190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383050175.3541.7.camel@linux-86wr.site>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310290938190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CACNU6M731eAA7Vv=OZiBfRZ=bvPsvCm5h4K=H17RYgeVpJsEjg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:40 AM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> Confirmed, .. the TLS error was just notice it was not negotiated. The
> only remaining problem is convincing sendmail to use the FQDN from
> /etc/hosts or /etc/sysconfig/network:
>
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> root at domain.com
>     (reason: 504 Need Fully Qualified Address)
>     (expanded from: <root at WTWeb>)
>                                ^ i.e. WTWeb.domain.com

Did you add the MASQUERADE_AS line to sendmail.cf as the first link
said to do?  Can you use wireshark/tcpdump to grab the transcript of
the SMTP transaction?

Mark

From lvl at omnitec.net  Tue Oct 29 11:33:43 2013
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 10:33:43 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Any sendmail folks out there?
In-Reply-To: <CACNU6M731eAA7Vv=OZiBfRZ=bvPsvCm5h4K=H17RYgeVpJsEjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281624250.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M7wRTw2uTbVwK5vFx8n1QjOfh7eKE1hCDiPrkzgCk0pPA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281644210.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M5XPwLmOk==YoBVEy1Fz5T6cEBS_7S5X8xXcF9=qfR8SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281710280.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M4Mj4U4UxRBGFu-oxr_BmvEGvsT_VhVDot=Z2_fxn7jng@mail.gmail.com>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310281849090.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1383050175.3541.7.camel@linux-86wr.site>
 <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310290938190.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CACNU6M731eAA7Vv=OZiBfRZ=bvPsvCm5h4K=H17RYgeVpJsEjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1310291031310.4922@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013, Mark Farver wrote:

> Did you add the MASQUERADE_AS line to sendmail.cf as the first link
> said to do?
>
No, as MASQUERADE_AS is not used on any of the running sendmail systems
where I have access, so that would introduce another possible failure
vector.

> Can you use wireshark/tcpdump to grab the transcript of the SMTP
> transaction?
>
It's possible, but the log shows the bad ctladdr, as does the error
message, so what additional information could be seen in a tcpdump?

	Lee

From grlugcasey at gmail.com  Tue Oct 29 10:20:02 2013
From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 14:20:02 -0000
Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: Sprout Lab Discount available!
In-Reply-To: <CAGxKor9gxMs4xDCodKDHKZqGZn1o_-y1s3qNA2Kc44AAV7kdbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A7CEA7299975BD4EBA110362D5E28458271916@EX-MB-GR2.office.ads.gvsu.edu>
 <CAGxKor9gxMs4xDCodKDHKZqGZn1o_-y1s3qNA2Kc44AAV7kdbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZEZZ0znVaa0bv8131e9LinMmsMovLfqKD7TJahv=j8PCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sprout Lab is pleased to offer a 20% discount to members of GRIN, GR Makers,
the Muskegon Inventors Network, and Michigan Farm Bureau.

Plan to be part of this new Ag/Natural Resources innovation workshop:
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
November 4, 5, 6, 2013 (8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.)

Register online at www.SproutLab.org.
At the Eventbrite payment option, choose *Innovator-Group Member*
and *pay just $155* for the 3-day Sprout Lab workshop.

Questions?  Call Julie Cowie, Sprout Lab Program Manager, at 269.214.1227
or contact her by email:  julie at SproutLab.org

*--Please register by Friday, October 25**--*




-- 
Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org
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