From ebever at researchintegration.org Wed May 1 10:16:23 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 10:16:23 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq Message-ID: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> 1. how would I search for /var/www/virtual in vi? I tried putting quotes around it and also just //var/www/virtual But neither seems to work. 2. To add AllowOverride for sites at /var/www/virtual, is this correct? AllowOverride All And would I just enter it following the same entry for /var/www/html? Thanks. From Bill.Pribble at Haworth.com Wed May 1 10:25:32 2013 From: Bill.Pribble at Haworth.com (Bill Pribble) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 10:25:32 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Try this sed '/\/Directory/ i\AllowOverride All' file_name -----Original Message----- From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of Eric Beversluis Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:16 AM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq 1. how would I search for /var/www/virtual in vi? I tried putting quotes around it and also just //var/www/virtual But neither seems to work. 2. To add AllowOverride for sites at /var/www/virtual, is this correct? AllowOverride All And would I just enter it following the same entry for /var/www/html? Thanks. _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From Bill.Pribble at Haworth.com Wed May 1 10:27:31 2013 From: Bill.Pribble at Haworth.com (Bill Pribble) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 10:27:31 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Sorry, this should put the AllowOverride All line above the line. You can redirect this to a temp file or use the sed -i to edit the file directly. Make a copy first. -----Original Message----- From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Pribble Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:26 AM To: Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area. Subject: Re: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq Try this sed '/\/Directory/ i\AllowOverride All' file_name -----Original Message----- From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of Eric Beversluis Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:16 AM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq 1. how would I search for /var/www/virtual in vi? I tried putting quotes around it and also just //var/www/virtual But neither seems to work. 2. To add AllowOverride for sites at /var/www/virtual, is this correct? AllowOverride All And would I just enter it following the same entry for /var/www/html? Thanks. _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From devriesbj at gmail.com Wed May 1 10:43:33 2013 From: devriesbj at gmail.com (Brad DeVries) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 10:43:33 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Eric, I'll answer the first question because it's vi-related and let someone with more Apache knowhow answer the second question. In vi, as you know, the slash (/) character searches down the file. If you want to search for a slash character then you need to "escape" it with a backslash. So, if you tried this key sequence, it would work: /\/\/var\/www\/virtual (Note the backslash characters before each forward slash character, except the first one, which initiates the search.) HTH, Brad. On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Eric Beversluis < ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote: > 1. how would I search for /var/www/virtual in vi? I tried putting > quotes around it and also just > //var/www/virtual > > But neither seems to work. > > 2. To add AllowOverride for sites at /var/www/virtual, is this correct? > > > AllowOverride All > > > And would I just enter it following the same entry for /var/www/html? > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff at ajprogramming.com Wed May 1 10:47:21 2013 From: jeff at ajprogramming.com (Jeff Bosch) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 10:47:21 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7b249a04c772a0e2eaf8aaf962a33ab3.squirrel@webmail.ajprogramming.com> I believe you have one too many "escaped" slashes. Try: /\/var\/www\/virtual > Eric, I'll answer the first question because it's vi-related and let > someone with more Apache knowhow answer the second question. > > In vi, as you know, the slash (/) character searches down the file. If > you > want to search for a slash character then you need to "escape" it with a > backslash. So, if you tried this key sequence, it would work: > /\/\/var\/www\/virtual > (Note the backslash characters before each forward slash character, except > the first one, which initiates the search.) From ebever at researchintegration.org Wed May 1 10:58:48 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 10:58:48 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1367420328.1643.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks. I should have remembered escaping. Just haven't used it in this context before. On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 10:43 -0400, Brad DeVries wrote: > Eric, I'll answer the first question because it's vi-related and let > someone with more Apache knowhow answer the second question. > > > In vi, as you know, the slash (/) character searches down the file. > If you want to search for a slash character then you need to "escape" > it with a backslash. So, if you tried this key sequence, it would > work: > /\/\/var\/www\/virtual > (Note the backslash characters before each forward slash character, > except the first one, which initiates the search.) > > > HTH, > Brad. > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Eric Beversluis > wrote: > 1. how would I search for /var/www/virtual in vi? I tried > putting > quotes around it and also just > //var/www/virtual > > But neither seems to work. > > 2. To add AllowOverride for sites at /var/www/virtual, is this > correct? > > > AllowOverride All > > > And would I just enter it following the same entry > for /var/www/html? > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From devriesbj at gmail.com Wed May 1 11:58:18 2013 From: devriesbj at gmail.com (Brad DeVries) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 11:58:18 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: <7b249a04c772a0e2eaf8aaf962a33ab3.squirrel@webmail.ajprogramming.com> References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7b249a04c772a0e2eaf8aaf962a33ab3.squirrel@webmail.ajprogramming.com> Message-ID: Good catch. It didn't seem right when I looked at it after typing but I just assumed it was me getting old. Guess I was right. Brad. On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Jeff Bosch wrote: > I believe you have one too many "escaped" slashes. Try: > /\/var\/www\/virtual > > > Eric, I'll answer the first question because it's vi-related and let > > someone with more Apache knowhow answer the second question. > > > > In vi, as you know, the slash (/) character searches down the file. If > > you > > want to search for a slash character then you need to "escape" it with a > > backslash. So, if you tried this key sequence, it would work: > > /\/\/var\/www\/virtual > > (Note the backslash characters before each forward slash character, > except > > the first one, which initiates the search.) > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From slestak989 at gmail.com Wed May 1 14:18:25 2013 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 14:18:25 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7b249a04c772a0e2eaf8aaf962a33ab3.squirrel@webmail.ajprogramming.com> Message-ID: I typically would just search for virtual to make it easy. On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Brad DeVries wrote: > Good catch. It didn't seem right when I looked at it after typing but I > just assumed it was me getting old. Guess I was right. > > Brad. > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Jeff Bosch wrote: > >> I believe you have one too many "escaped" slashes. Try: >> /\/var\/www\/virtual >> >> > Eric, I'll answer the first question because it's vi-related and let >> > someone with more Apache knowhow answer the second question. >> > >> > In vi, as you know, the slash (/) character searches down the file. If >> > you >> > want to search for a slash character then you need to "escape" it with a >> > backslash. So, if you tried this key sequence, it would work: >> > /\/\/var\/www\/virtual >> > (Note the backslash characters before each forward slash character, >> except >> > the first one, which initiates the search.) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Wed May 1 14:30:11 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 14:30:11 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] two quick vi qq In-Reply-To: References: <1367417783.1643.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7b249a04c772a0e2eaf8aaf962a33ab3.squirrel@webmail.ajprogramming.com> Message-ID: <1367433011.1643.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ja--one could do dat too. Got the Override working and the .htaccess file in place. Thanks to all. On Wed, 2013-05-01 at 14:18 -0400, Steve Romanow wrote: > I typically would just search for virtual to make it easy. > > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Brad DeVries > wrote: > Good catch. It didn't seem right when I looked at it after > typing but I just assumed it was me getting old. Guess I was > right. > > > Brad. > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Jeff Bosch > wrote: > I believe you have one too many "escaped" slashes. > Try: > /\/var\/www\/virtual > > > Eric, I'll answer the first question because it's > vi-related and let > > someone with more Apache knowhow answer the second > question. > > > > In vi, as you know, the slash (/) character searches > down the file. If > > you > > want to search for a slash character then you need > to "escape" it with a > > backslash. So, if you tried this key sequence, it > would work: > > /\/\/var\/www\/virtual > > (Note the backslash characters before each forward > slash character, except > > the first one, which initiates the search.) > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed May 1 22:55:11 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 22:55:11 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed loss Message-ID: Since I brought up the issue of losing bandwidth for the last 4 or 5 days, let me add just a bit. The downstream bandwidth, using the speedtest.net Detroit test point, hosted by Comcast, has degraded by about 35%, and still seemed to be going down. The upstream bandwidth was more or less unchanged. What to do? Why, power cycle! I mean, why not? What can it hurt? Doing that, everything came back, and the bit rates up and down are what they were a week ago. So, how come? Other than the fact that power cycling cured what was ailing the bit rate, why should I have needed to do this at all? Something to do with the modems interaction with Comcast? Just curious. In the end I'll have to power cycle in any case in the bandwidth sags again, but if anyone has any thoughts about this, please post them. -- Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at wesorick.com Wed May 1 23:00:56 2013 From: john at wesorick.com (John Wesorick) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 23:00:56 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed loss In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This has been my experience with both Comcast and AT&T routers/modems. I actually ended up getting a programmable outlet, like you use to program lights, to turn them off for 5 minutes a day. Works fine then. On May 1, 2013 10:55 PM, "Bob Kline" wrote: > Since I brought up the issue of losing > bandwidth for the last 4 or 5 days, let > me add just a bit. The downstream > bandwidth, using the speedtest.net > Detroit test point, hosted by Comcast, > has degraded by about 35%, and still > seemed to be going down. The upstream > bandwidth was more or less unchanged. > > What to do? Why, power cycle! I mean, > why not? What can it hurt? > > Doing that, everything came back, and > the bit rates up and down are what they > were a week ago. > > So, how come? Other than the fact > that power cycling cured what was ailing > the bit rate, why should I have needed > to do this at all? Something to do with > the modems interaction with Comcast? > > Just curious. In the end I'll have to > power cycle in any case in the bandwidth > sags again, but if anyone has any thoughts > about this, please post them. > > -- Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed May 1 23:07:07 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 23:07:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed loss In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good thought. I have some mechanical timers and could just set one to do this early in the morning. It's sad to have to resort to something like this, but maybe the reality is that much of the stuff does depend on being power cycled periodically to prevent becoming too flaky. To me that suggests poor design, but one has to just live with it I fear. Maybe some modems are better than others. I'm pretty sure it's the modem and not the router. -- Bob On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:00 PM, John Wesorick wrote: > This has been my experience with both Comcast and AT&T routers/modems. I > actually ended up getting a programmable outlet, like you use to program > lights, to turn them off for 5 minutes a day. Works fine then. > On May 1, 2013 10:55 PM, "Bob Kline" wrote: > >> Since I brought up the issue of losing >> bandwidth for the last 4 or 5 days, let >> me add just a bit. The downstream >> bandwidth, using the speedtest.net >> Detroit test point, hosted by Comcast, >> has degraded by about 35%, and still >> seemed to be going down. The upstream >> bandwidth was more or less unchanged. >> >> What to do? Why, power cycle! I mean, >> why not? What can it hurt? >> >> Doing that, everything came back, and >> the bit rates up and down are what they >> were a week ago. >> >> So, how come? Other than the fact >> that power cycling cured what was ailing >> the bit rate, why should I have needed >> to do this at all? Something to do with >> the modems interaction with Comcast? >> >> Just curious. In the end I'll have to >> power cycle in any case in the bandwidth >> sags again, but if anyone has any thoughts >> about this, please post them. >> >> -- Bob >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at wesorick.com Wed May 1 23:21:28 2013 From: john at wesorick.com (John Wesorick) Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 23:21:28 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed loss In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah with AT&T fios you have to use their stuff, so you get what you get. With Comcast I can buy my own modem, I've just been too lazy to find one that works and I'm planning on leaving them soon anyway. It's cheap, easy and works. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's why proprietary stuff sucks. Poor logging and visibility. On May 1, 2013 11:07 PM, "Bob Kline" wrote: > Good thought. I have some mechanical timers > and could just set one to do this early in the morning. > It's sad to have to resort to something like this, but > maybe the reality is that much of the stuff does > depend on being power cycled periodically to prevent > becoming too flaky. To me that suggests poor design, > but one has to just live with it I fear. Maybe some > modems are better than others. I'm pretty sure it's > the modem and not the router. > > -- Bob > > > > > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:00 PM, John Wesorick wrote: > >> This has been my experience with both Comcast and AT&T routers/modems. I >> actually ended up getting a programmable outlet, like you use to program >> lights, to turn them off for 5 minutes a day. Works fine then. >> On May 1, 2013 10:55 PM, "Bob Kline" wrote: >> >>> Since I brought up the issue of losing >>> bandwidth for the last 4 or 5 days, let >>> me add just a bit. The downstream >>> bandwidth, using the speedtest.net >>> Detroit test point, hosted by Comcast, >>> has degraded by about 35%, and still >>> seemed to be going down. The upstream >>> bandwidth was more or less unchanged. >>> >>> What to do? Why, power cycle! I mean, >>> why not? What can it hurt? >>> >>> Doing that, everything came back, and >>> the bit rates up and down are what they >>> were a week ago. >>> >>> So, how come? Other than the fact >>> that power cycling cured what was ailing >>> the bit rate, why should I have needed >>> to do this at all? Something to do with >>> the modems interaction with Comcast? >>> >>> Just curious. In the end I'll have to >>> power cycle in any case in the bandwidth >>> sags again, but if anyone has any thoughts >>> about this, please post them. >>> >>> -- Bob >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Thu May 2 08:49:13 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 08:49:13 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed loss In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/internet/power-cycling-your-modem/ In the video Comcast recommends resetting your modem "often." I'm thinking your once a day regimen seems about right, since you clearly never know when "they" might do something. -- Bob On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:00 PM, John Wesorick wrote: > This has been my experience with both Comcast and AT&T routers/modems. I > actually ended up getting a programmable outlet, like you use to program > lights, to turn them off for 5 minutes a day. Works fine then. > On May 1, 2013 10:55 PM, "Bob Kline" wrote: > >> Since I brought up the issue of losing >> bandwidth for the last 4 or 5 days, let >> me add just a bit. The downstream >> bandwidth, using the speedtest.net >> Detroit test point, hosted by Comcast, >> has degraded by about 35%, and still >> seemed to be going down. The upstream >> bandwidth was more or less unchanged. >> >> What to do? Why, power cycle! I mean, >> why not? What can it hurt? >> >> Doing that, everything came back, and >> the bit rates up and down are what they >> were a week ago. >> >> So, how come? Other than the fact >> that power cycling cured what was ailing >> the bit rate, why should I have needed >> to do this at all? Something to do with >> the modems interaction with Comcast? >> >> Just curious. In the end I'll have to >> power cycle in any case in the bandwidth >> sags again, but if anyone has any thoughts >> about this, please post them. >> >> -- Bob >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemol at gmail.com Thu May 2 08:55:04 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 08:55:04 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed loss In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51826228.8020200@gmail.com> On 05/01/2013 10:55 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > Since I brought up the issue of losing > bandwidth for the last 4 or 5 days, let > me add just a bit. The downstream > bandwidth, using the speedtest.net > Detroit test point, hosted by Comcast, > has degraded by about 35%, and still > seemed to be going down. The upstream > bandwidth was more or less unchanged. > > What to do? Why, power cycle! I mean, > why not? What can it hurt? > > Doing that, everything came back, and > the bit rates up and down are what they > were a week ago. > > So, how come? Other than the fact > that power cycling cured what was ailing > the bit rate, why should I have needed > to do this at all? Something to do with > the modems interaction with Comcast? > > Just curious. In the end I'll have to > power cycle in any case in the bandwidth > sags again, but if anyone has any thoughts > about this, please post them. There are a number of things that can get crufty in network equipment if they're not configured properly. Since it seems most consumer network equipment runs Linux, it also seems likely manufacturers don't change defaults much...and there are things (such as how long to assume connections are open) with insanely long timeouts. Like five *days*. I've got a thought that the problem may not be with the modem, but with the router's routing tables and other cached information. Powering off the modem would look like a link drop to the router, leading it to do some internal cleanup and garbage collection. A couple things to try in the future: 1) Unplug the network cable, wait 15-30 seconds, plug it back in. 2) Unplug the router, wait 15-30 second, plug it back in. Both are ways of testing that theory. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Thu May 2 09:05:32 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 09:05:32 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed loss In-Reply-To: <51826228.8020200@gmail.com> References: <51826228.8020200@gmail.com> Message-ID: I will give both those things a try at some point. I'm happy to see relatively simple solutions to the overall problem. Whether it's the router or the modem, the simplest of all appears to be to use another suggestion made here - put in a timer and just interrupt the power for a minute or so each day. At bottom, it's just the way it is. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Michael Mol wrote: > On 05/01/2013 10:55 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > Since I brought up the issue of losing > > bandwidth for the last 4 or 5 days, let > > me add just a bit. The downstream > > bandwidth, using the speedtest.net > > Detroit test point, hosted by Comcast, > > has degraded by about 35%, and still > > seemed to be going down. The upstream > > bandwidth was more or less unchanged. > > > > What to do? Why, power cycle! I mean, > > why not? What can it hurt? > > > > Doing that, everything came back, and > > the bit rates up and down are what they > > were a week ago. > > > > So, how come? Other than the fact > > that power cycling cured what was ailing > > the bit rate, why should I have needed > > to do this at all? Something to do with > > the modems interaction with Comcast? > > > > Just curious. In the end I'll have to > > power cycle in any case in the bandwidth > > sags again, but if anyone has any thoughts > > about this, please post them. > > There are a number of things that can get crufty in network equipment if > they're not configured properly. Since it seems most consumer network > equipment runs Linux, it also seems likely manufacturers don't change > defaults much...and there are things (such as how long to assume > connections are open) with insanely long timeouts. Like five *days*. > > I've got a thought that the problem may not be with the modem, but with > the router's routing tables and other cached information. Powering off > the modem would look like a link drop to the router, leading it to do > some internal cleanup and garbage collection. > > A couple things to try in the future: > > 1) Unplug the network cable, wait 15-30 seconds, plug it back in. > 2) Unplug the router, wait 15-30 second, plug it back in. > > Both are ways of testing that theory. > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at wieringafamily.com Thu May 2 10:23:46 2013 From: chris at wieringafamily.com (Chris Wieringa) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 10:23:46 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed slump? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I personally haven't seen an issue, but I do have issues time to time that are extremely local to my neighborhood. Couple things to check: 1. If you can get to 192.168.100.1 - this should be your cable modem's internal IP ranges. Check your signal levels, compare them to the listings on http://www.speedguide.net/articles/cable-modem-signal-levels-1197 . If you are getting to a fringe on signal levels this can greatly change your speeds. You can do some re-engineering internal to your house by reducing splits, adding splits, etc to get to optimal levels and making sure you have all your house taps connected, or disconnected correctly (with appropriate cable caps). Additional devices on the cable plant in your house may be adding signal interference. 2. Ask your neighbors. Having 2-3 people in a neighborhood call at once can help Comcast come to the conclusion that there may be issues with a local neighborhood not an individual connection. 3. Hard-power cycle your cable modem and router. 4. If you can figure out that your first or second hops out (tracert) are causing issues (I've seen this before), if you "change" your MAC address on your router you may get a new IP range with different initial hops. Comcast has several ranges that they load-balance connections between, although they tend to stick once assigned to a particular IP pool. Just a few debugging things I've done with my own connection. Chris On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > I use speedtest.net, and the Comcast test > location in Detroit - Comcast techs recommend > that, so one expects it to show good results..... > > The last two or three days I've notice the > up and down rates have typically dropped > about 20% to 25%. Anyone else seeing this? > Even my ace in the hole - 4 to 6 AM shows > lower rates. > > I've seen long stretches when the up/down > rates are high, and stable. i.e., weeks to > a month or two. Then something changes. > And that's what's happening now. > > Anyway, just a query to see whether anyone > has observed anything. I don't intend to call > Comcast just yet. > > -- Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Thu May 2 10:41:06 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 10:41:06 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Speed slump? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: #1 is a very good point. The signal to the modem can just as well be too strong as too weak - the modem only modulates correctly within a specified signal strength range. Why the signal strength varies is anyone's guess, but can include things like Comcast adjusting amplifiers upstream, connect tightness and corrosion, including your own. But a Comcast person did stop by once of his own volition, and thought the level might be slight out of range, and then tweaked something. Playing the game on your own could be done hit and miss I guess, using your modem performance as a guide. Anyway, for now, I'm back in the chips. Power cycling does it. I don't know why, but that won't change the fact I just need to do it on a regular basis now. -- Bob On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Chris Wieringa wrote: > I personally haven't seen an issue, but I do have issues time to time that > are extremely local to my neighborhood. > > Couple things to check: > 1. If you can get to 192.168.100.1 - this should be your cable modem's > internal IP ranges. Check your signal levels, compare them to the listings > on http://www.speedguide.net/articles/cable-modem-signal-levels-1197 . > If you are getting to a fringe on signal levels this can greatly change > your speeds. You can do some re-engineering internal to your house by > reducing splits, adding splits, etc to get to optimal levels and making > sure you have all your house taps connected, or disconnected correctly > (with appropriate cable caps). Additional devices on the cable plant in > your house may be adding signal interference. > 2. Ask your neighbors. Having 2-3 people in a neighborhood call at once > can help Comcast come to the conclusion that there may be issues with a > local neighborhood not an individual connection. > 3. Hard-power cycle your cable modem and router. > 4. If you can figure out that your first or second hops out (tracert) are > causing issues (I've seen this before), if you "change" your MAC address on > your router you may get a new IP range with different initial hops. > Comcast has several ranges that they load-balance connections between, > although they tend to stick once assigned to a particular IP pool. > > Just a few debugging things I've done with my own connection. > > Chris > > > > > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:44 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > >> I use speedtest.net, and the Comcast test >> location in Detroit - Comcast techs recommend >> that, so one expects it to show good results..... >> >> The last two or three days I've notice the >> up and down rates have typically dropped >> about 20% to 25%. Anyone else seeing this? >> Even my ace in the hole - 4 to 6 AM shows >> lower rates. >> >> I've seen long stretches when the up/down >> rates are high, and stable. i.e., weeks to >> a month or two. Then something changes. >> And that's what's happening now. >> >> Anyway, just a query to see whether anyone >> has observed anything. I don't intend to call >> Comcast just yet. >> >> -- Bob >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Thu May 2 12:51:49 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 12:51:49 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] An interesting website for IPv6 buffs. Message-ID: http://www.sixxs.net/misc/coolstuff/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemol at gmail.com Thu May 2 13:18:17 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 02 May 2013 13:18:17 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] An interesting website for IPv6 buffs. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51829FD9.6040508@gmail.com> On 05/02/2013 12:51 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > http://www.sixxs.net/misc/coolstuff/ PDF, but a very, very good read if you're considering implementing IPv6 on a corporate network. NIST SP 800-800-119, Guidelines for the Secure Deployment of IPv6 http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/nistpubs/800-119/sp800-119.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Thu May 2 14:17:05 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 14:17:05 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Free Message-ID: PC2-6400U-666-12-E0 2GB 2Rx8 I have 4, for a total of 8GB. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Panasonic 120 min DVD RAM. DVD-RAM LM-AF120LU5 A 5-pack. Brand new. I think this was a failed attempt by Panasonic to introduce a new media for video recorders. I had a recorder, and it crapped out long ago. On the off chance someone still has something that uses these, they're brand new, and you can't get them any more. Let me know fast if you want either item, or both. Tomorrow they go in a dumpster. I don't have room or the inclination to keep stuff like this around any more. -- Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andross at gmail.com Fri May 3 03:05:48 2013 From: andross at gmail.com (andross at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 03:05:48 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Free In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I could use the RAM. It'd be a shame to toss it. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > PC2-6400U-666-12-E0 > > 2GB 2Rx8 > > I have 4, for a total of 8GB. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Panasonic 120 min DVD RAM. > > DVD-RAM LM-AF120LU5 > > A 5-pack. Brand new. I think this > was a failed attempt by Panasonic > to introduce a new media for video > recorders. I had a recorder, and it > crapped out long ago. On the off > chance someone still has something > that uses these, they're brand new, > and you can't get them any more. > > > Let me know fast if you want either item, > or both. Tomorrow they go in a dumpster. > I don't have room or the inclination to keep > stuff like this around any more. > > -- Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From megadave at gmail.com Fri May 3 03:21:52 2013 From: megadave at gmail.com (Dave Chiodo) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 03:21:52 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Free In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I actually have a DVD RAM drive... I have *one* DVDRAM disc for it. I don't really use it for anything, but hey a drive with 6 discs is better than a drive with just one. On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > PC2-6400U-666-12-E0 > > 2GB 2Rx8 > > I have 4, for a total of 8GB. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Panasonic 120 min DVD RAM. > > DVD-RAM LM-AF120LU5 > > A 5-pack. Brand new. I think this > was a failed attempt by Panasonic > to introduce a new media for video > recorders. I had a recorder, and it > crapped out long ago. On the off > chance someone still has something > that uses these, they're brand new, > and you can't get them any more. > > > Let me know fast if you want either item, > or both. Tomorrow they go in a dumpster. > I don't have room or the inclination to keep > stuff like this around any more. > > -- Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From bob.kline at gmail.com Fri May 3 10:01:30 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 10:01:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Free In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll put them aside for you. -- Bob On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:05 AM, wrote: > I could use the RAM. It'd be a shame to toss it. > > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > >> PC2-6400U-666-12-E0 >> >> 2GB 2Rx8 >> >> I have 4, for a total of 8GB. >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> Panasonic 120 min DVD RAM. >> >> DVD-RAM LM-AF120LU5 >> >> A 5-pack. Brand new. I think this >> was a failed attempt by Panasonic >> to introduce a new media for video >> recorders. I had a recorder, and it >> crapped out long ago. On the off >> chance someone still has something >> that uses these, they're brand new, >> and you can't get them any more. >> >> >> Let me know fast if you want either item, >> or both. Tomorrow they go in a dumpster. >> I don't have room or the inclination to keep >> stuff like this around any more. >> >> -- Bob >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Fri May 3 10:01:43 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 10:01:43 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Free In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You've got 'em. -- Bob On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Dave Chiodo wrote: > I actually have a DVD RAM drive... I have *one* DVDRAM disc for it. > > I don't really use it for anything, but hey a drive with 6 discs is > better than a drive with just one. > > > On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > PC2-6400U-666-12-E0 > > > > 2GB 2Rx8 > > > > I have 4, for a total of 8GB. > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > Panasonic 120 min DVD RAM. > > > > DVD-RAM LM-AF120LU5 > > > > A 5-pack. Brand new. I think this > > was a failed attempt by Panasonic > > to introduce a new media for video > > recorders. I had a recorder, and it > > crapped out long ago. On the off > > chance someone still has something > > that uses these, they're brand new, > > and you can't get them any more. > > > > > > Let me know fast if you want either item, > > or both. Tomorrow they go in a dumpster. > > I don't have room or the inclination to keep > > stuff like this around any more. > > > > -- Bob > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Tue May 7 12:16:29 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:16:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] Bash glob Message-ID: Trying to ensure the parameter to a script matches: YYYY-MM (e.g. 2013-06) It would seem this would be the desired pattern: if [[ ! $1 =~ '[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}' ]] ; then echo ' Usage: backup YYYY-MM' exit fi However it will not match a valid YYYY-MM. Cluestick, anyone? Thanks! Lee From binki at gentoo.org Tue May 7 13:26:03 2013 From: binki at gentoo.org (Nathan Phillip Brink) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 17:26:03 +0000 Subject: [GRLUG] Bash regex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130507172602.GC15291@ohnopublishing.net> On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 11:16:29AM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Trying to ensure the parameter to a script matches: > > YYYY-MM (e.g. 2013-06) > > It would seem this would be the desired pattern: > > if [[ ! $1 =~ '[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}' ]] ; then > echo ' Usage: backup YYYY-MM' > exit > fi > > However it will not match a valid YYYY-MM. Cluestick, anyone? See ?$ info '(bash)Conditional Constructs'? which, in explaining the regex ?=~? operator, says ?Any part of the pattern may be quoted to force it to be matched as a string.? Your expression works after removing the single quotes. It appears that if you want to include spaces in your regex, you must escape just the spaces with singlequotes or a backslash per whitespace character. I am not sure if there is a way to quote an entire regex without getting the ?force it to be matched as a string? behavior. -- binki Look out for missing or extraneous apostrophes! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mrj at plorb.com Tue May 7 13:30:12 2013 From: mrj at plorb.com (Jeff DeFouw) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:30:12 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Bash glob In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130507173012.GA22580@blorp.plorb.com> On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 11:16:29AM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Trying to ensure the parameter to a script matches: > > YYYY-MM (e.g. 2013-06) > > It would seem this would be the desired pattern: > > if [[ ! $1 =~ '[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}' ]] ; then > echo ' Usage: backup YYYY-MM' > exit > fi > > However it will not match a valid YYYY-MM. Cluestick, anyone? I didn't know bash had a regular expression operator. Apparently you're not supposed to quote the pattern. Anything between quotes is done as a literal string match. -- Jeff DeFouw From desertfrag at yahoo.com Tue May 7 14:18:15 2013 From: desertfrag at yahoo.com (desert frag) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] A Day In The Life Of The Internet [INFOGRAPHIC] Message-ID: <1367950695.73117.YahooMailNeo@web162402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> http://www.mediabistro.com/alltwitter/internet-day-stats_b41621 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From desertfrag at yahoo.com Tue May 7 14:19:43 2013 From: desertfrag at yahoo.com (desert frag) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 11:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] A Day In The Life Of The Internet [INFOGRAPHIC] Message-ID: <1367950783.10053.YahooMailNeo@web162404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Sorry, correct url is: http://www.mediabistro.com/alltwitter/internet-day-stats_b41621 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Tue May 7 14:21:35 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:21:35 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] Bash regex In-Reply-To: <20130507172602.GC15291@ohnopublishing.net> References: <20130507172602.GC15291@ohnopublishing.net> Message-ID: > See ^^$ info '(bash)Conditional Constructs'^^ which, in explaining the > regex ^^=~^^ operator, says ^^Any part of the pattern may be quoted to > force it to be matched as a string.^^ Your expression works after > removing the single quotes. > I had tried single, double, as well as no quotes, .. none would match the YYYY-MM string when properly formatted. I ended up with: if [[ ! $1 =~ [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]-[0-9][0-9] ]] ; then echo ' Usage: backup YYYY-MM' exit fi I believe the main problem was the missing 'number' modifier usable in bash, so I had to explictly repeat the digits. Thanks! Lee From lvl at omnitec.net Tue May 7 14:22:55 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:22:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] Bash glob In-Reply-To: <20130507173012.GA22580@blorp.plorb.com> References: <20130507173012.GA22580@blorp.plorb.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 May 2013, Jeff DeFouw wrote: > I didn't know bash had a regular expression operator. Apparently you're > not supposed to quote the pattern. Anything between quotes is done as a > literal string match. > I had tried with all quoted combinations, .. but I finally concluded that bash regex's lacked a 'number' modifier (i.e. the {4} & {2}). Thanks! Lee From robert.citek at gmail.com Tue May 7 14:27:47 2013 From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 14:27:47 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Bash regex In-Reply-To: References: <20130507172602.GC15291@ohnopublishing.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:21 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > I had tried single, double, as well as no quotes, .. none would match the > YYYY-MM string when properly formatted. > > I ended up with: > > if [[ ! $1 =~ [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]-[0-9][0-9] ]] ; then > echo ' Usage: backup YYYY-MM' > exit > fi > > I believe the main problem was the missing 'number' modifier usable in > bash, so I had to explictly repeat the digits. Can you show what you used as a test? Regex in single quotes: $ [[ "2013-06" =~ '[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}' ]] && echo yes || echo no no Regex in double quotes: # [[ "2013-06" =~ "[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}" ]] && echo yes || echo no no Regex without quotes: $ [[ "2013-06" =~ [0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2} ]] && echo yes || echo no yes Regex as variable: $ regex="[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}" $ [[ "2013-06" =~ ${regex} ]] && echo yes || echo no yes Regards, - Robert From binki at gentoo.org Tue May 7 14:28:18 2013 From: binki at gentoo.org (Nathan Phillip Brink) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 18:28:18 +0000 Subject: [GRLUG] Bash regex In-Reply-To: References: <20130507172602.GC15291@ohnopublishing.net> Message-ID: <20130507182818.GD15291@ohnopublishing.net> On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 01:21:35PM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > > See ^^$ info '(bash)Conditional Constructs'^^ which, in explaining the > > regex ^^=~^^ operator, says ^^Any part of the pattern may be quoted to > > force it to be matched as a string.^^ Your expression works after > > removing the single quotes. > > > I had tried single, double, as well as no quotes, .. none would match the > YYYY-MM string when properly formatted. > > I ended up with: > > if [[ ! $1 =~ [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]-[0-9][0-9] ]] ; then > echo ' Usage: backup YYYY-MM' > exit > fi > > I believe the main problem was the missing 'number' modifier usable in > bash, so I had to explictly repeat the digits. > > Thanks! > > Lee Works for me: ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ a=2012-04 ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ [[ $a =~ [0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2} ]]; echo $? 0 ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ a=20a2-04 ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ [[ $a =~ [0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2} ]]; echo $? 1 ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ echo ${BASH_VERSION} 4.2.10(2)-release -- binki Look out for missing or extraneous apostrophes! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From robert.citek at gmail.com Tue May 7 14:40:55 2013 From: robert.citek at gmail.com (Robert Citek) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 14:40:55 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Bash regex In-Reply-To: <20130507182818.GD15291@ohnopublishing.net> References: <20130507172602.GC15291@ohnopublishing.net> <20130507182818.GD15291@ohnopublishing.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Nathan Phillip Brink wrote: > Works for me: > > ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ a=2012-04 > ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ [[ $a =~ [0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2} ]]; echo $? > 0 > ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ a=20a2-04 > ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ [[ $a =~ [0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2} ]]; echo $? > 1 > ohnobinki at ohnopublishing ~ $ echo ${BASH_VERSION} > 4.2.10(2)-release Ditto. Bash does grouping, too: $ a=2012-04 ; regex='([0-9]{4})-[0-9]{2}' ; [[ $a =~ ${regex} ]] ; echo ${BASH_REMATCH[@]} 2012-04 2012 Regards, - Robert From lvl at omnitec.net Tue May 7 14:48:37 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 13:48:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] Bash regex In-Reply-To: References: <20130507172602.GC15291@ohnopublishing.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 May 2013, Robert Citek wrote: > > I believe the main problem was the missing 'number' modifier usable in > > bash, so I had to explictly repeat the digits. > > Can you show what you used as a test? > 2012-06 passes, .. > $ regex="[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}" > $ [[ "2013-06" =~ ${regex} ]] && echo yes || echo no > yes > Interesting, .. I must not have tested the modifier without quotes - that DOES work! Thanks!!! Lee From awilliam at whitemice.org Tue May 7 14:54:59 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 14:54:59 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] A Day In The Life Of The Internet [INFOGRAPHIC] In-Reply-To: <1367950695.73117.YahooMailNeo@web162402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1367950695.73117.YahooMailNeo@web162402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1367952899.1796.24.camel@linux-86wr.site> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 11:18 -0700, desert frag wrote: > http://www.mediabistro.com/alltwitter/internet-day-stats_b41621 So ~60%+ of the world's population does *not* use the Internet in a given day, upwards of ~70% - 80% do *not* on some continents. "8 new people start using the Internet every second" And 2 people die every second, and four are born [hmmm, how does that figure in..]. And social networking users also spend ~21 hours a day doing something potentially productive! :) Numbers are fun! -- Adam Tauno Williams GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA From ebever at researchintegration.org Wed May 8 16:44:30 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Wed, 08 May 2013 16:44:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] M$* Blue Message-ID: <1368045870.1650.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> AP says, "The tune-up...part of a software package given the codename "Blue," [is] a tacit acknowledgment of the shortcomings of Windows 8." Is codename "Blue" meant to remind us of the blue screen of death? From steveg at branchadventures.org Thu May 9 10:49:29 2013 From: steveg at branchadventures.org (Steve @ HCS) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 10:49:29 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] M$* Blue In-Reply-To: <1368045870.1650.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1368045870.1650.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <518BB779.1050009@branchadventures.org> On 5/8/2013 4:44 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > AP says, "The tune-up...part of a software package given the codename > "Blue," [is] a tacit acknowledgment of the shortcomings of Windows 8." > > Is codename "Blue" meant to remind us of the blue screen of death? > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug Probably "Blue" refers to the faces of the windows users who have tried it. As a tech, i don't like it, as common tools are harder to find. Hopefully they will split the OS like Apple does. One version for tablets, one for workstation/laptops. -- Healthy Computer Systems Steve Grody - Owner 616-502-2454 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From circlotron at yahoo.com Thu May 9 14:21:32 2013 From: circlotron at yahoo.com (Robert Turnbull) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 11:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] Musical Tesla Coil @ GRMakers Message-ID: <1368123692.42220.YahooMailNeo@web121302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Does anyone have a video of the Tesla coil playing the Gilligan's Island theme? I'd like to send it to a friend who's a huge Gilligan's Island fan and currently undergoing cancer treatment. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Thu May 9 14:43:16 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 14:43:16 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] desktop not aligned after disconnecting external monitor Message-ID: <1368124996.1665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> My external monitor to my Lenovo x120e starts up fine (Fedora 17). I plug it in, go to system settings, where it has been noticed and just switch it to on. It aligns nicely and I can drag stuff easily back and forth. But I can't seem to find the right path to disconnecting it. I've tried turning it off in System Settings before disconnecting, disconnecting with it turned on, disconnecting after I've powered down the monitor. It always seems to result in the desk icons being skewed way to the left, so just the right few columns of icons show. The only way I've been able to get the desktop right is to reboot. That shouldn't be necessary, should it? Thanks. From ebever at researchintegration.org Thu May 9 14:49:50 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 14:49:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] desktop not aligned after disconnecting external monitor In-Reply-To: <1368124996.1665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1368124996.1665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1368125390.1665.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Going into gnome-tweak-tool and turning Nautilus desktop control off and on seems to be a work-around. But is there any way to disconnect the external monitor without having to do this? On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 14:43 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: > My external monitor to my Lenovo x120e starts up fine (Fedora 17). I > plug it in, go to system settings, where it has been noticed and just > switch it to on. It aligns nicely and I can drag stuff easily back and > forth. > > But I can't seem to find the right path to disconnecting it. I've tried > turning it off in System Settings before disconnecting, disconnecting > with it turned on, disconnecting after I've powered down the monitor. > > It always seems to result in the desk icons being skewed way to the > left, so just the right few columns of icons show. The only way I've > been able to get the desktop right is to reboot. > > That shouldn't be necessary, should it? > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From mikemol at gmail.com Thu May 9 14:52:20 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 14:52:20 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] desktop not aligned after disconnecting external monitor In-Reply-To: <1368124996.1665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1368124996.1665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <518BF064.2090400@gmail.com> On 05/09/2013 02:43 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > My external monitor to my Lenovo x120e starts up fine (Fedora 17). I > plug it in, go to system settings, where it has been noticed and just > switch it to on. It aligns nicely and I can drag stuff easily back and > forth. > > But I can't seem to find the right path to disconnecting it. I've tried > turning it off in System Settings before disconnecting, disconnecting > with it turned on, disconnecting after I've powered down the monitor. > > It always seems to result in the desk icons being skewed way to the > left, so just the right few columns of icons show. The only way I've > been able to get the desktop right is to reboot. > > That shouldn't be necessary, should it? There's a good chance you can straighten things out using the xrandr command. Try using that to turn off your external output (i.e. if it's VGA, it'd be "xrandr --output VGA1 --off". If its' DVI, it'd be "xrandr --output DVI1 --off"), and to reset your primary display ("xrandr --output LVDS1 --auto --primary" or some such) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Thu May 9 15:05:07 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 15:05:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] desktop not aligned after disconnecting external monitor In-Reply-To: <518BF064.2090400@gmail.com> References: <1368124996.1665.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518BF064.2090400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1368126307.1665.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2013-05-09 at 14:52 -0400, Michael Mol wrote: > On 05/09/2013 02:43 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > My external monitor to my Lenovo x120e starts up fine (Fedora 17). I > > plug it in, go to system settings, where it has been noticed and just > > switch it to on. It aligns nicely and I can drag stuff easily back and > > forth. > > > > But I can't seem to find the right path to disconnecting it. I've tried > > turning it off in System Settings before disconnecting, disconnecting > > with it turned on, disconnecting after I've powered down the monitor. > > > > It always seems to result in the desk icons being skewed way to the > > left, so just the right few columns of icons show. The only way I've > > been able to get the desktop right is to reboot. > > > > That shouldn't be necessary, should it? > > There's a good chance you can straighten things out using the xrandr > command. Try using that to turn off your external output (i.e. if it's > VGA, it'd be "xrandr --output VGA1 --off". If its' DVI, it'd be "xrandr > --output DVI1 --off"), and to reset your primary display ("xrandr > --output LVDS1 --auto --primary" or some such) > Are you saying that would be done each time? Then it would seem the gnome-tweak-tool would be quicker. Shouldn't the System Settings handle it? Is the system setting Displays function a front-end to xrandr? From coderjoe69 at yahoo.com Thu May 9 18:00:25 2013 From: coderjoe69 at yahoo.com (Thad Ward) Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 15:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] M$* Blue In-Reply-To: <518BB779.1050009@branchadventures.org> References: <1368045870.1650.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518BB779.1050009@branchadventures.org> Message-ID: <1368136825.82201.YahooMailNeo@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Except Windows 8 was made from the desire to unify versions across workstations, laptops, tablets, and phones. That is the reason why it stinks so badly. I'm sure novice users love it, because things work similarly on the phone, tablet, and laptop or desktop (if they have either). On 5/9/2013 10:49 AM, Steve @ HCS wrote: >On 5/8/2013 4:44 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > >> AP says, "The tune-up...part of a software package given the codename >> "Blue," [is] a tacit acknowledgment of the shortcomings of Windows 8." Is >> codename "Blue" meant to remind us of the blue screen of death? > Probably "Blue" refers to the faces of the windows users who have tried > it.? As a tech, i don't like it, as common tools are harder to find.? Hopefully > they will split the OS like Apple does.? One version for tablets, one for > workstation/laptops. From knightperson at zuzax.com Fri May 10 01:33:36 2013 From: knightperson at zuzax.com (Mike Williams) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 01:33:36 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] M$* Blue In-Reply-To: <1368136825.82201.YahooMailNeo@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1368045870.1650.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518BB779.1050009@branchadventures.org> <1368136825.82201.YahooMailNeo@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <518C86B0.8020907@zuzax.com> It's a bit of history repeating itself. In the days of Windows 2000 and such, Microsoft did their unification theory between server OS and desktop OS. Windows 2000 (and I'm pretty sure NT 4, but this knowledge is rusty) had basically identical code for workstation and server products. Slight tweaks to the scheduler, different licensing models, and the option of installing more server applications were the only differences between server and workstation. So server hardware had to run the full, fairly processor-intensive for its day, NT 4 GUI on servers that nobody ever used as workstations. While 100 megs of memory and 4 megs of video memory are trivial these days, servers of the day didn't always have that to spare. Linux made a better server OS in many cases because you could save a significant fraction of the machine's meager resources by not running the GUI. It's a similar problem with Windows 8. Like a server is not a workstation, a desktop is not a tablet! MS figured this out in later server versions, differentiating them from the desktop OS even though they share quite a bit of code, but they're trying to make something that works as both a tablet-on-the-go operating system and a desktop-at-real-work, and it isn't working. I've been forced to use Windows 8 a bit at work (because somebody, somewhere really loves the Surface), and it feels like a toy. This big, animated tiles thing so I can quickly pick out the one application I want to look at, rather than the start menu that takes up a small amount of screen space to let me add another running application to the five I already have going. Windows 8's interface might be perfectly viable if I just need to read something during a commute (consuming content), but it sucks for doing any real work (creating content). Yes, I'll get off my soapbox now. On 05/09/2013 06:00 PM, Thad Ward wrote: > Except Windows 8 was made from the desire to unify versions across workstations, > laptops, tablets, and phones. That is the reason why it stinks so badly. I'm sure > novice users love it, because things work similarly on the phone, tablet, and laptop > or desktop (if they have either). > > On 5/9/2013 10:49 AM, Steve @ HCS wrote: > >> On 5/8/2013 4:44 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: >> >>> AP says, "The tune-up...part of a software package given the codename >>> "Blue," [is] a tacit acknowledgment of the shortcomings of Windows 8." Is >>> codename "Blue" meant to remind us of the blue screen of death? >> Probably "Blue" refers to the faces of the windows users who have tried >> it. As a tech, i don't like it, as common tools are harder to find. Hopefully >> they will split the OS like Apple does. One version for tablets, one for >> workstation/laptops. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From mikemol at gmail.com Fri May 10 09:56:26 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 09:56:26 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] M$* Blue In-Reply-To: <518C86B0.8020907@zuzax.com> References: <1368045870.1650.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518BB779.1050009@branchadventures.org> <1368136825.82201.YahooMailNeo@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <518C86B0.8020907@zuzax.com> Message-ID: <518CFC8A.40206@gmail.com> On 05/10/2013 01:33 AM, Mike Williams wrote: > It's a bit of history repeating itself. In the days of Windows 2000 and > such, Microsoft did their unification theory between server OS and > desktop OS. Windows 2000 (and I'm pretty sure NT 4, but this knowledge > is rusty) had basically identical code for workstation and server > products. Slight tweaks to the scheduler, different licensing models, > and the option of installing more server applications were the only > differences between server and workstation. So server hardware had to > run the full, fairly processor-intensive for its day, NT 4 GUI on > servers that nobody ever used as workstations. While 100 megs of memory > and 4 megs of video memory are trivial these days, servers of the day > didn't always have that to spare. Linux made a better server OS in many > cases because you could save a significant fraction of the machine's > meager resources by not running the GUI. > > It's a similar problem with Windows 8. Like a server is not a > workstation, a desktop is not a tablet! MS figured this out in later > server versions, differentiating them from the desktop OS even though > they share quite a bit of code, but they're trying to make something > that works as both a tablet-on-the-go operating system and a > desktop-at-real-work, and it isn't working. I've been forced to use > Windows 8 a bit at work (because somebody, somewhere really loves the > Surface), and it feels like a toy. This big, animated tiles thing so I > can quickly pick out the one application I want to look at, rather than > the start menu that takes up a small amount of screen space to let me > add another running application to the five I already have going. > Windows 8's interface might be perfectly viable if I just need to read > something during a commute (consuming content), but it sucks for doing > any real work (creating content). > > Yes, I'll get off my soapbox now. Yay, a soapbox thread. :) So, Microsoft developed something called Windows Core. I forget if this started with Vista or Win7. I think Vista. Anyway, the purpose of Windows Core was to make the system much, much more modular. I forget what the minimum requirements for the fully stripped down core are, but I remember they sounded insanely low when announced. You can see this some of this modularity when you "Add/Remove features", but it's most clearly visible if you do the online-upgrade. If you've got Win7 Starter, but you've got a product key for Win7 Ultimate, you can load up the Control panel, go to System, click "Add features with a new version of Windows", enter your product key, and it will download and load in the new modular bits. This is different from the XP era, when you could enable higher-grade SKUs' features with simple registry hacks...I once turned my cousin's XP home machine into a Terminal Server; I was doing my taxes over a web browser over RDP while he was playing CounterStrike... The upshot of all this is that they can rip out some components if they need to fit into a smaller platform, and they can replace subsystems with slimmer versions, if needed. They actually provided themselves with a decent foundational platform once they got Windows Core going for them. [snip] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From coderjoe69 at yahoo.com Fri May 10 14:13:35 2013 From: coderjoe69 at yahoo.com (Thad Ward) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 11:13:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] M$* Blue In-Reply-To: <518CFC8A.40206@gmail.com> References: <1368045870.1650.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518BB779.1050009@branchadventures.org> <1368136825.82201.YahooMailNeo@web160701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <518C86B0.8020907@zuzax.com> <518CFC8A.40206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1368209615.31902.YahooMailNeo@web160703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> On 05/10/2013 09:56 AM, Michael Mol wrote: > So, Microsoft developed something called Windows Core. I forget if this > started with Vista or Win7. I think Vista. Anyway, the purpose of > Windows Core was to make the system much, much more modular. I forget > what the minimum requirements for the fully stripped down core are, but > I remember they sounded insanely low when announced. I'm not sure about when the name came about, but that modularity was available in the XP era with the Windows XP Embedded stuff. Using a DevStudio-like UI, you could pick the packages you needed (including ones you created for your program(s)), and the system would walk the dependency tree and pull in and configure other packages that were needed, distilling down to an image you could then deploy to your device. There were even options for if there should be a boot logo (but I don't recall if it was customizable) and if video was even needed. From bob.kline at gmail.com Fri May 10 15:49:50 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 15:49:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] moderator? Message-ID: ** Your mail to 'grlug' with the subject NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Message has implicit destination Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel this posting, please visit the following URL: ** Does this group now have a moderator? -- Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemol at gmail.com Fri May 10 16:02:19 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:02:19 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] moderator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <518D524B.3060503@gmail.com> On 05/10/2013 03:49 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > ** > Your mail to 'grlug' with the subject > > NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Message has implicit destination > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > this posting, please visit the following URL: > ** > > Does this group now have a moderator? NAFAIK. Can you post the headers of the message you sent (which it held)? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Fri May 10 16:22:49 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:22:49 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] moderator? In-Reply-To: <518D524B.3060503@gmail.com> References: <518D524B.3060503@gmail.com> Message-ID: from: grlug-bounces at grlug.orgto: bob.kline at gmail.com date: Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:51 PMsubject: Your message to grlug awaits moderator approvalmailing list: grlug.grlug.org Filter messages from this mailing listmailed-by: grlug.org On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On 05/10/2013 03:49 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > ** > > Your mail to 'grlug' with the subject > > > > NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. > > > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > > > The reason it is being held: > > > > Message has implicit destination > > > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > ** > > > > Does this group now have a moderator? > > NAFAIK. Can you post the headers of the message you sent (which it held)? > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemol at gmail.com Fri May 10 16:54:34 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 16:54:34 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] moderator? In-Reply-To: References: <518D524B.3060503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <518D5E8A.50006@gmail.com> On 05/10/2013 04:22 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > from: grlug-bounces at grlug.org > to: bob.kline at gmail.com > date: Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:51 PM > subject: Your message to grlug awaits moderator approval > mailing list: grlug.grlug.org Filter messages > from this mailing list > mailed-by: grlug.org > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Michael Mol > wrote: > > On 05/10/2013 03:49 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > ** > > Your mail to 'grlug' with the subject > > > > NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. > > > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > > > The reason it is being held: > > > > Message has implicit destination > > > > Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > > notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > > this posting, please visit the following URL: > > ** > > > > Does this group now have a moderator? > > NAFAIK. Can you post the headers of the message you sent (which it > held)? That's not what I meant. I want to see the headers of the message you _sent_, not the message you received. (And I want all the headers, not just the basics.) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Fri May 10 17:14:02 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 17:14:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX: xxx Message-ID: xxx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Fri May 10 17:34:33 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 17:34:33 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX - test Message-ID: test -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From don.ellis at gmail.com Fri May 10 18:22:21 2013 From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 17:22:21 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX - test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Passed, I think... On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > test > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From jtr at jrichards.org Fri May 10 19:10:14 2013 From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 19:10:14 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] moderator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130510231014.GA22044@rondo.celtics> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 03:49:50PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote: > ** > Your mail to 'grlug' with the subject > > NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > The reason it is being held: > > Message has implicit destination I've seen this with a mailing list I manage. Did you have additional recipients specified (other than the GRLUG)? -- john-thomas ------ Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes. Edgard Varese, composer (1885-1965) From bob.kline at gmail.com Fri May 10 19:30:28 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 19:30:28 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] moderator? In-Reply-To: <20130510231014.GA22044@rondo.celtics> References: <20130510231014.GA22044@rondo.celtics> Message-ID: No. On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 7:10 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 03:49:50PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote: > > ** > > Your mail to 'grlug' with the subject > > > > NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. > > > > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > > > The reason it is being held: > > > > Message has implicit destination > > I've seen this with a mailing list I manage. Did you have additional > recipients specified (other than the GRLUG)? > -- > john-thomas > ------ > Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes. > Edgard Varese, composer (1885-1965) > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geektoyz at gmail.com Sat May 11 10:27:19 2013 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 10:27:19 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] moderator? In-Reply-To: References: <20130510231014.GA22044@rondo.celtics> Message-ID: I'll take a look... On May 10, 2013 7:31 PM, "Bob Kline" wrote: > No. > > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 7:10 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote: > >> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 03:49:50PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote: >> > ** >> > Your mail to 'grlug' with the subject >> > >> > NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. >> > >> > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. >> > >> > The reason it is being held: >> > >> > Message has implicit destination >> >> I've seen this with a mailing list I manage. Did you have additional >> recipients specified (other than the GRLUG)? >> -- >> john-thomas >> ------ >> Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes. >> Edgard Varese, composer (1885-1965) >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Sat May 11 10:40:57 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Sat, 11 May 2013 10:40:57 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] brain dead re bootloader Message-ID: <1368283257.1653.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> My old (ca 2003) Sony is dual boot with an old fedora and XP. It's been set for so long to boot directly to Windows that I can't remember how to get the boot loader prompt to tell it to boot to fedora. Don't even remember if it's GRUB or LILO. Can anyone help me out here? I suspect it's LILO. Thanks. From patrick at upmerchants.com Sun May 12 08:04:48 2013 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 08:04:48 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] brain dead re bootloader In-Reply-To: <1368283257.1653.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1368283257.1653.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <518F8560.9060602@upmerchants.com> On 05/11/2013 10:40 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > My old (ca 2003) Sony is dual boot with an old fedora and XP. It's been > set for so long to boot directly to Windows that I can't remember how to > get the boot loader prompt to tell it to boot to fedora. Don't even > remember if it's GRUB or LILO. > > Can anyone help me out here? I suspect it's LILO. > > Thanks. > Press the escape key when the boot menu appears. Arrow up / down to select fedora. In fedora update /boot/grub/grub.cfg for grub or /boot/menu.lst for lilo (I think). Update /etc/inittab for the default boot option. Do a search for whichever boot loader you have for more info. Patrick From ebever at researchintegration.org Sun May 12 08:27:05 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 08:27:05 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] brain dead re bootloader In-Reply-To: <518F8560.9060602@upmerchants.com> References: <1368283257.1653.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518F8560.9060602@upmerchants.com> Message-ID: <1368361625.1638.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2013-05-12 at 08:04 -0400, Patrick Goupell wrote: > > On 05/11/2013 10:40 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > My old (ca 2003) Sony is dual boot with an old fedora and XP. It's been > > set for so long to boot directly to Windows that I can't remember how to > > get the boot loader prompt to tell it to boot to fedora. Don't even > > remember if it's GRUB or LILO. > > > > Can anyone help me out here? I suspect it's LILO. > > > > Thanks. > > > Press the escape key when the boot menu appears. > > Arrow up / down to select fedora. > > In fedora update /boot/grub/grub.cfg for grub or /boot/menu.lst for lilo > (I think). > > Update /etc/inittab for the default boot option. > > Do a search for whichever boot loader you have for more info. > > Patrick The trouble is the boot menu is not showing at all. It goes directly to Windows as the default. I wonder if maybe I set the time it waits before going to default too short. If that's what happened, is there any way to get at the boot menu? I haven't had luck booting from a live CD since the CD drive mounts through the pcmcia drive and at some point in the boot process (after initially seeing the CD) the computer no longer finds it on the pcmcia. From jeff at demaagd.com Sun May 12 09:06:00 2013 From: jeff at demaagd.com (Jeff DeMaagd) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 09:06:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] brain dead re bootloader In-Reply-To: <1368361625.1638.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1368283257.1653.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518F8560.9060602@upmerchants.com> <1368361625.1638.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On May 12, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > The trouble is the boot menu is not showing at all. It goes directly to > Windows as the default. I wonder if maybe I set the time it waits before > going to default too short. If that's what happened, is there any way to > get at the boot menu? Hold down or repeatedly press the button during boot, I wonder if the boot loader has been replaced. > I haven't had luck booting from a live CD since the CD drive mounts > through the pcmcia drive and at some point in the boot process (after > initially seeing the CD) the computer no longer finds it on the pcmcia. Have you tried to boot from a USB stick? Are you sure there is data on the Linux partition that needs to be saved? From patrick at upmerchants.com Sun May 12 09:27:54 2013 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 09:27:54 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] brain dead re bootloader In-Reply-To: References: <1368283257.1653.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <518F8560.9060602@upmerchants.com> <1368361625.1638.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <518F98DA.4010309@upmerchants.com> On 05/12/2013 09:06 AM, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > > On May 12, 2013, at 8:27 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote: >> The trouble is the boot menu is not showing at all. It goes directly to >> Windows as the default. I wonder if maybe I set the time it waits before >> going to default too short. If that's what happened, is there any way to >> get at the boot menu? > > Hold down or repeatedly press the button during boot, I wonder if the boot loader has been replaced. > > Press the F8 key during boot for windows safe mode. If it comes up then the mbr has been replaced with the windows loader. You can reinstall grub or lilo if you want the current fedora system or reinstall a current version. Patrick From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun May 12 14:29:44 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 14:29:44 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. Message-ID: OK (mostly) guys, I'm attaching notes from about 18 months ago when the group censoring issue went around the last time. Pretty clearly a number of strong willed individuals still believe it's their role to define the scope of discussion in this group, and what I think has happened is that someone attempted to overtly filter material they don't like. The mention of a moderator did not pop up by accident, and I believe it's part of an unfinished attempt by someone to explicitly block what they don't like. Ballsy and arrogant, it is nevertheless what it seems. I'm the one who started the "NOT LINUX" subject line in an effort to appease what I'll still call the gang of four, who, in the snippets below, make their own case. They simply don't like content they don't approve of, even if it's trivial to avoid. The reasons strike me as pure BS, since during the last 10 years that I've participated in the group there was mostly room for more general computer discussions that people could participate in or not, at their discretion. So, I guess the group is mostly about about those want answers to their IT job problems, solutions to their hobby projects, and whatever else they deem appropriate. I'll remind you of the ever so interesting flame wars in the past about posting at the top or bottom of e-mails. If that wasn't inane I don't know the meaning of the word. But many here participated with gusto, as though the whole thing had any real meaning at all. And of course there was nervous Greg, who never could cope with the notion of not getting his way, and left after a few disparaging remarks about the rest of us Neanderthals. But there are limits to everything, and as some here suggest, other venues. And of course others with more wide ranging interests, even within the scope of computing. So I'll be on my way as well. Like Mike, I don't want my bandwidth absorbed by anything I don't like - all 600 GB a month of it. And like Dave Pembroke, I shouldn't have to suffer affronts to a pure world of narrow technological interests just because some commercial yahoos want to take over the Internet. Like him, I don't have time for it any more either. Yup. I only know what I like, and that's good enough for anybody. To some of the rest of you, it's been a pleasure. One learns things, and hopefully contributes a little. Godwin, it would have been interesting to see you at least once, but as a background presence - to me anyway - the group is your baby, and has mostly helped the world move forward. -- Bob **************************** Adam Tauno Williams awilliam at whitemice.org via grlug.org 9/30/11 to grlug [all content removed] I have no issue with the occasion off-topic post or thread-tangent ... but this is getting *old*. The over-and-over "NOT LINUX" subject line should indicate: find somewhere else to post - somewhere where this is on-topic. There *are* forums and lists dedicated to net-neutrality and related issues [which all these "NOT LINUX' posts seem to be about]. Join one of those if that is your focus. There isn't even any variety of topic in this off-topic posts. ***************************** David Pembrook david at pembrook.net via grlug.org 9/30/11 to awilliam, Mailing On 9/30/2011 11:16 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > [all content removed] > > I have no issue with the occasion off-topic post or thread-tangent ... > but this is getting *old*. The over-and-over "NOT LINUX" subject line > should indicate: find somewhere else to post - somewhere where this is > on-topic. > > There *are* forums and lists dedicated to net-neutrality and related > issues [which all these "NOT LINUX' posts seem to be about]. Join one > of those if that is your focus. There isn't even any variety of topic > in this off-topic posts. **************************** Michael Mol mikemol at gmail.com via grlug.org 9/30/11 to awilliam, Mailing On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > [all content removed] > > I have no issue with the occasion off-topic post or thread-tangent ... > but this is getting *old*. The over-and-over "NOT LINUX" subject line > should indicate: find somewhere else to post - somewhere where this is > on-topic. > > There *are* forums and lists dedicated to net-neutrality and related > issues [which all these "NOT LINUX' posts seem to be about]. Join one > of those if that is your focus. There isn't even any variety of topic > in this off-topic posts. Concur. Even within the topic, it's rehashing the same points over and over again. It's really, really old. I wasn't going to bite on this last one, but I'm happy to agree that it's not useful or interesting on this list any more. *************************** Benjamin Flanders flanderb at gmail.com via grlug.org 9/30/11 to Mailing Nothing against any of you, you are all more knowledgeable than I, but I say whats the damage? I don't particularly watch the politics, but I just ignore the threads I don't want to read. Gmail makes this easy with "mute"(others should have this feature as well) but I don't even go that far, I usually open skim then archive. if it a thread I don't even want to skim, I just archive. No harm no foul. I kinda have to agree with Bob on this. Why tamp down ANY discussion, when it is easy to just ignore or mute it. You might create an environment where newbies are afraid to ask a question. Just my thoughts Share and Enjoy Ben ************************* Michael Mol mikemol at gmail.com via grlug.org 9/30/11 to Mailing On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Benjamin Flanders wrote: > Nothing against any of you, you are all more knowledgeable than I, but > I say whats the damage? I don't particularly watch the politics, but > I just ignore the threads I don't want to read. Gmail makes this easy > with "mute"(others should have this feature as well) but I don't even > go that far, I usually open skim then archive. if it a thread I don't > even want to skim, I just archive. No harm no foul. > > I kinda have to agree with Bob on this. Why tamp down ANY discussion, > when it is easy to just ignore or mute it. You might create an > environment where newbies are afraid to ask a question. > > Just my thoughts It doesn't stop those of us with smartphones from receiving email after email, alert after alert on the subject. (A little harder to filter things out that way) ************************ Steve Romanow slestak989 at gmail.com via grlug.org 9/30/11 to Mailing Mute works on droid gmail app. Just saying. ************************* mailtonick mailtonick at gmail.com via grlug.org 9/30/11 to Mailing Most users on here are intelligent enough to determine if the (off) topic is relevant to the group. Some of these OTs are interesting, and surely some are WTF?s. In any case, a quick filter for "off topic" OR "not linux", and delete solves the problem for me. - Nick **************************** David Pembrook david at pembrook.net via grlug.org 9/30/11 to Mailing That really doesn't work as threads evolve and the subject doesn't always change with the topic. Sure you can add the filter but unless we create rules for identifying off topic threads, your going to delete more mail than intended in the long run. With mail going to multiple devices on multiple platforms its a pain in the neck. This is really about what we want to talk about as a group here. What about religion? We have politics now... The person who started this when criticized, had to get personal calling us a gang of 4. He just shows how weak his position is that way. I would label his comments more against free speech than those of us that would like political topics in political forums. I like a good political discussion, but is that what this forum is about? This isn't about one post, this is about long off topic threads. Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brousch at gmail.com Sun May 12 16:03:34 2013 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 16:03:34 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, I'm not sure where that moderator message came from, but there is no moderator and no one is intentionally attempting to moderate the group. A policy like that would have been discussed publicly, and no such discussion has occurred. Godwin is the only one with the necessary access to the group mail server to enable such a thing. If he says he hasn't enable moderation, then it isn't happening. In the past, we have had intermittent problems with the automated spam filter. For instance, messages that I and others sent containing the word "hackerspace" were automatically deleted about 3 years ago. It is possible that your email contained a keyword that triggered the filter, but that message would just been deleted, not bounced. Another possibility is that you (unintentionally) CCed a moderated mailing list in that email, and the bounce came from them. I would hate to see you leave the group because you think it is being moderated. Although many people would prefer to see fewer off-topic discussions, we have no intention of moderating the list. -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun May 12 16:23:41 2013 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 16:23:41 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ben -- I don't intend to discuss this much, but I had no CC in my message, and there isn't much room for filtering in "NOT LINUX," unless intentionally taken as a phrase. As for "off-topic discussions," that simply gets back to what's on-topic. I'll simply repeat that individuals have their own ideas about this, but in my ten years there's never been a statement about what's considered on-topic. It's seat of the pants, or dictated by strong willed individuals who can't be bothered to ignore anything that's not of interest to them. There's more chatter generated by a few in response to a message they deem inappropriate than would have been the case by deleting it and moving on. It's Godwin's group. He can be the final word on it. But I'm done with it all. -- Bob On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > Bob, > > I'm not sure where that moderator message came from, but there is no > moderator and no one is intentionally attempting to moderate the group. A > policy like that would have been discussed publicly, and no such discussion > has occurred. Godwin is the only one with the necessary access to the group > mail server to enable such a thing. If he says he hasn't enable moderation, > then it isn't happening. > > In the past, we have had intermittent problems with the automated spam > filter. For instance, messages that I and others sent containing the word > "hackerspace" were automatically deleted about 3 years ago. It is possible > that your email contained a keyword that triggered the filter, but that > message would just been deleted, not bounced. Another possibility is that > you (unintentionally) CCed a moderated mailing list in that email, and the > bounce came from them. > > I would hate to see you leave the group because you think it is being > moderated. Although many people would prefer to see fewer off-topic > discussions, we have no intention of moderating the list. > > -- > Ben Rousch > brousch at gmail.com > http://clusterbleep.net/ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grlugcasey at gmail.com Sun May 12 16:58:38 2013 From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 13:58:38 -0700 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6EE936F6-9481-4332-B478-C8318EF3ABEE@gmail.com> I still get filtered sometimes and can assure you there's nothing intentional going on here. I'm thinking if you try again with a new message it will work fine. Regards, Casey DuBois 616-808-6942 On May 12, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > Hi Ben -- > > I don't intend to discuss this much, but > I had no CC in my message, and there > isn't much room for filtering in "NOT LINUX," > unless intentionally taken as a phrase. > > As for "off-topic discussions," that simply > gets back to what's on-topic. I'll simply > repeat that individuals have their own ideas > about this, but in my ten years there's never > been a statement about what's considered > on-topic. It's seat of the pants, or dictated > by strong willed individuals who can't be > bothered to ignore anything that's not of > interest to them. There's more chatter > generated by a few in response to a message > they deem inappropriate than would have > been the case by deleting it and moving on. > > It's Godwin's group. He can be the final word > on it. But I'm done with it all. > > -- Bob > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: >> Bob, >> >> I'm not sure where that moderator message came from, but there is no moderator and no one is intentionally attempting to moderate the group. A policy like that would have been discussed publicly, and no such discussion has occurred. Godwin is the only one with the necessary access to the group mail server to enable such a thing. If he says he hasn't enable moderation, then it isn't happening. >> >> In the past, we have had intermittent problems with the automated spam filter. For instance, messages that I and others sent containing the word "hackerspace" were automatically deleted about 3 years ago. It is possible that your email contained a keyword that triggered the filter, but that message would just been deleted, not bounced. Another possibility is that you (unintentionally) CCed a moderated mailing list in that email, and the bounce came from them. >> >> I would hate to see you leave the group because you think it is being moderated. Although many people would prefer to see fewer off-topic discussions, we have no intention of moderating the list. >> >> -- >> Ben Rousch >> brousch at gmail.com >> http://clusterbleep.net/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From van at dedserius.com Sun May 12 17:17:26 2013 From: van at dedserius.com (Van) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 14:17:26 -0700 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: <6EE936F6-9481-4332-B478-C8318EF3ABEE@gmail.com> References: <6EE936F6-9481-4332-B478-C8318EF3ABEE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <77F2E923-CC32-44B6-A805-DB6719E68B3E@dedserius.com> Bob: There is nothing nefarious going on here. Godwin runs the GRLUG Wes Jennings and I created in 1999 to forward Linux as a viable OS solution for businesses and souls in the west Michigan area better than any moderator I've ever observed. You can put me down for 18 years UNIX experience, if that's even relevant. While your assessment that your posts have been moderated are concerning, a better way to deal with it would be to forward Godwin (current moderator) the specific messages you believe are indicated, so they can be addressed. This group is about forwarding and discussing free-thinking, democratic open source technologies. I support your moving on, if you choose, but that's our goal here. Hope you do stay and can help us continue to succeed in getting that message out. Peace, Van On May 12, 2013, at 13:58, Casey DuBois wrote: > I still get filtered sometimes and can assure you there's nothing intentional going on here. I'm thinking if you try again with a new message it will work fine. > > Regards, > Casey DuBois > 616-808-6942 > > On May 12, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > >> Hi Ben -- >> >> I don't intend to discuss this much, but >> I had no CC in my message, and there >> isn't much room for filtering in "NOT LINUX," >> unless intentionally taken as a phrase. >> >> As for "off-topic discussions," that simply >> gets back to what's on-topic. I'll simply >> repeat that individuals have their own ideas >> about this, but in my ten years there's never >> been a statement about what's considered >> on-topic. It's seat of the pants, or dictated >> by strong willed individuals who can't be >> bothered to ignore anything that's not of >> interest to them. There's more chatter >> generated by a few in response to a message >> they deem inappropriate than would have >> been the case by deleting it and moving on. >> >> It's Godwin's group. He can be the final word >> on it. But I'm done with it all. >> >> -- Bob >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: >>> Bob, >>> >>> I'm not sure where that moderator message came from, but there is no moderator and no one is intentionally attempting to moderate the group. A policy like that would have been discussed publicly, and no such discussion has occurred. Godwin is the only one with the necessary access to the group mail server to enable such a thing. If he says he hasn't enable moderation, then it isn't happening. >>> >>> In the past, we have had intermittent problems with the automated spam filter. For instance, messages that I and others sent containing the word "hackerspace" were automatically deleted about 3 years ago. It is possible that your email contained a keyword that triggered the filter, but that message would just been deleted, not bounced. Another possibility is that you (unintentionally) CCed a moderated mailing list in that email, and the bounce came from them. >>> >>> I would hate to see you leave the group because you think it is being moderated. Although many people would prefer to see fewer off-topic discussions, we have no intention of moderating the list. >>> >>> -- >>> Ben Rousch >>> brousch at gmail.com >>> http://clusterbleep.net/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geektoyz at gmail.com Sun May 12 18:10:47 2013 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 18:10:47 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: <77F2E923-CC32-44B6-A805-DB6719E68B3E@dedserius.com> References: <6EE936F6-9481-4332-B478-C8318EF3ABEE@gmail.com> <77F2E923-CC32-44B6-A805-DB6719E68B3E@dedserius.com> Message-ID: Greets Bob, et. al., Sorry to see you go Bob (as I noticed the unsubscribe notification). I assure you I did/do not explicitly filter/moderate the list (other than what default behavior Mailman applies). Looking that the held message's headers, it seems the list's email address was not explicitly listed, but rather BCC'd. See message header: Return-Path: X-Original-To: grlug at grlug.org Received: from grlug.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (maya.grlug.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9SLFsldUSVhH for ; Fri, 10 May 2013 15:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.212.43; helo=mail-vb0-f43.google.com; envelope-from= bob.kline at gmail.com; receiver=grlug at grlug.org Received: by 10.52.171.194 with HTTP; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 15:46:54 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. *From: Bob Kline * *To: undisclosed-recipients:;* Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d6264d402b004dc626d51 The bounce notification you received was due to Mailman's default config - where the list has to be explicitly listed as a recipient. Just to clarify, I like to think of the LUG as self-owned. :-) As Van pointed out, he, Wes, Eric and others had something here in GR going when I found them (while at E.M.U). I came from the Ypsilanti LUG and together we got this one off the ground. I'd like to think its members make the LUG and, as my kids often remind me, you can't own people, it belongs to all of us - yes Bob you as well. If you'd like to come back, and I speak for myself, I'd welcome you. thanks, Godwin P.S. An honorable mention goes to those of you who presently hold the LUG together (you know who you are), as we "old timers" have as much involvement as our schedules allow. Thanks to you all. On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Van wrote: > Bob: > > There is nothing nefarious going on here. Godwin runs the GRLUG Wes > Jennings and I created in 1999 to forward Linux as a viable OS solution for > businesses and souls in the west Michigan area better than any moderator > I've ever observed. You can put me down for 18 years UNIX experience, if > that's even relevant. > > While your assessment that your posts have been moderated are concerning, > a better way to deal with it would be to forward Godwin (current moderator) > the specific messages you believe are indicated, so they can be addressed. > > This group is about forwarding and discussing free-thinking, democratic > open source technologies. > > I support your moving on, if you choose, but that's our goal here. Hope > you do stay and can help us continue to succeed in getting that message out. > > Peace, > Van > > On May 12, 2013, at 13:58, Casey DuBois wrote: > > I still get filtered sometimes and can assure you there's nothing > intentional going on here. I'm thinking if you try again with a new message > it will work fine. > > Regards, > Casey DuBois > 616-808-6942 > > On May 12, 2013, at 1:23 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > Hi Ben -- > > I don't intend to discuss this much, but > I had no CC in my message, and there > isn't much room for filtering in "NOT LINUX," > unless intentionally taken as a phrase. > > As for "off-topic discussions," that simply > gets back to what's on-topic. I'll simply > repeat that individuals have their own ideas > about this, but in my ten years there's never > been a statement about what's considered > on-topic. It's seat of the pants, or dictated > by strong willed individuals who can't be > bothered to ignore anything that's not of > interest to them. There's more chatter > generated by a few in response to a message > they deem inappropriate than would have > been the case by deleting it and moving on. > > It's Godwin's group. He can be the final word > on it. But I'm done with it all. > > -- Bob > > > > > On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> I'm not sure where that moderator message came from, but there is no >> moderator and no one is intentionally attempting to moderate the group. A >> policy like that would have been discussed publicly, and no such discussion >> has occurred. Godwin is the only one with the necessary access to the group >> mail server to enable such a thing. If he says he hasn't enable moderation, >> then it isn't happening. >> >> In the past, we have had intermittent problems with the automated spam >> filter. For instance, messages that I and others sent containing the word >> "hackerspace" were automatically deleted about 3 years ago. It is possible >> that your email contained a keyword that triggered the filter, but that >> message would just been deleted, not bounced. Another possibility is that >> you (unintentionally) CCed a moderated mailing list in that email, and the >> bounce came from them. >> >> I would hate to see you leave the group because you think it is being >> moderated. Although many people would prefer to see fewer off-topic >> discussions, we have no intention of moderating the list. >> >> -- >> Ben Rousch >> brousch at gmail.com >> http://clusterbleep.net/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at erichartwell.net Sun May 12 20:30:49 2013 From: eric at erichartwell.net (Eric) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 19:30:49 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: References: <77F2E923-CC32-44B6-A805-DB6719E68B3E@dedserius.com> Message-ID: <1856194.xPKiFN1pWV@darthlinux> top posting to be out of place. here! here! Bob, you are welcome as far as I'm concerned. On Sunday, May 12, 2013 18:10:47 Godwin wrote: Greets Bob, et. al., Sorry to see you go Bob (as I noticed the unsubscribe notification). I assure you I did/do not explicitly filter/moderate the list (other than what default behavior Mailman applies). Looking that the held message's headers, it seems the list's email address was not explicitly listed, but rather BCC'd. See message header: Return-Path: X-Original-To: grlug at grlug.org[2] Received: from grlug.org[3] ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (maya.grlug.org[4] [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9SLFsldUSVhH for ; Fri, 10 May 2013 15:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; client- ip=209.85.212.43; helo=mail-vb0-f43.google.com[5]; envelope- from=bob.kline at gmail.com[1]; receiver=grlug at grlug.org[2] Received: by 10.52.171.194 with HTTP; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:46:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 15:46:54 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. *From: Bob Kline * *To: undisclosed-recipients:;* Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d6264d402b004dc626d51 The bounce notification you received was due to Mailman's default config - where the list has to be explicitly listed as a recipient. Just to clarify, I like to think of the LUG as self-owned. :-) As Van pointed out, he, Wes, Eric and others had something here in GR going when I found them (while at E.M.U). I came from the Ypsilanti LUG and together we got this one off the ground. I'd like to think its members make the LUG and, as my kids often remind me, you can't own people, it belongs to all of us - yes Bob you as well. If you'd like to come back, and I speak for myself, I'd welcome you. thanks, Godwin P.S. An honorable mention goes to those of you who presently hold the LUG together (you know who you are), as we "old timers" have as much involvement as our schedules allow. Thanks to you all. On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Van wrote: Bob: There is nothing nefarious going on here. Godwin runs the GRLUG Wes Jennings and I created in 1999 to forward Linux as a viable OS solution for businesses and souls in the west Michigan area better than any moderator I've ever observed. You can put me down for 18 years UNIX experience, if that's even relevant. While your assessment that your posts have been moderated are concerning, a better way to deal with it would be to forward Godwin (current moderator) the specific messages you believe are indicated, so they can be addressed. This group is about forwarding and discussing free-thinking, democratic open source technologies. I support your moving on, if you choose, but that's our goal here. Hope you do stay and can help us continue to succeed in getting that message out. Peace, Van grlugcasey at gmail.com[8]> wrote: I still get filtered sometimes and can assure you there's nothing intentional going on here. I'm thinking if you try again with a new message it will work fine. Regards, Casey DuBois 616-808-6942[9] bob.kline at gmail.com[1]> wrote: Hi Ben -- I don't intend to discuss this much, but I had no CC in my message, and there isn't much room for filtering in "NOT LINUX," unless intentionally taken as a phrase. As for "off-topic discussions," that simply gets back to what's on-topic. I'll simply repeat that individuals have their own ideas about this, but in my ten years there's never been a statement about what's considered on-topic. It's seat of the pants, or dictated by strong willed individuals who can't be bothered to ignore anything that's not of interest to them. There's more chatter generated by a few in response to a message they deem inappropriate than would have been the case by deleting it and moving on. It's Godwin's group. He can be the final word on it. But I'm done with it all. -- Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemol at gmail.com Sun May 12 22:20:19 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 22:20:19 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: References: <6EE936F6-9481-4332-B478-C8318EF3ABEE@gmail.com> <77F2E923-CC32-44B6-A805-DB6719E68B3E@dedserius.com> Message-ID: <51904DE3.6090700@gmail.com> On 05/12/2013 06:10 PM, Godwin wrote: > Greets Bob, et. al., > > Sorry to see you go Bob (as I noticed the unsubscribe notification). I > assure you I did/do not explicitly filter/moderate the list (other than > what default behavior Mailman applies). Looking that the held message's > headers, it seems the list's email address was not explicitly listed, > but rather BCC'd. See message header: > > Return-Path: > > X-Original-To: grlug at grlug.org > Received: from grlug.org ([127.0.0.1]) > by localhost (maya.grlug.org [127.0.0.1]) > (amavisd-new, port 10024) > with ESMTP id 9SLFsldUSVhH for >; > Fri, 10 May 2013 15:51:07 -0400 (EDT) > Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; > client-ip=209.85.212.43; helo=mail-vb0-f43.google.com > ; envelope-from=bob.kline at gmail.com > ; receiver=grlug at grlug.org > > Received: by 10.52.171.194 with HTTP; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:46:54 -0700 (PDT) > Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 15:46:54 -0400 > Message-ID: > > > Subject: NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. > *From: Bob Kline >* > *To: undisclosed-recipients:;* > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d6264d402b004dc626d51 > > The bounce notification you received was due to Mailman's default config > - where the list has to be explicitly listed as a recipient. Yeah, this is the data I was hoping to see when I asked for the headers. I suspected this was what had happened. > > Just to clarify, I like to think of the LUG as self-owned. :-) As Van > pointed out, he, Wes, Eric and others had something here in GR going > when I found them (while at E.M.U). I came from the Ypsilanti LUG and > together we got this one off the ground. I'd like to think its members > make the LUG and, as my kids often remind me, you can't own people, it > belongs to all of us - yes Bob you as well. And thanks a bunch to all of you for it! > > If you'd like to come back, and I speak for myself, I'd welcome you. Much as Bob and I disagree (almost by default), I don't see much value in his leaving, either. :-| Homogeneity is never valuable in a discussion medium, so anything that tends toward should be resisted. [snip] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From binki at gentoo.org Mon May 13 00:14:47 2013 From: binki at gentoo.org (Nathan Phillip Brink) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 04:14:47 +0000 Subject: [GRLUG] So long. In-Reply-To: <51904DE3.6090700@gmail.com> References: <6EE936F6-9481-4332-B478-C8318EF3ABEE@gmail.com> <77F2E923-CC32-44B6-A805-DB6719E68B3E@dedserius.com> <51904DE3.6090700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20130513041447.GM15291@ohnopublishing.net> On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 10:20:19PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote: > On 05/12/2013 06:10 PM, Godwin wrote: > > Greets Bob, et. al., > > > > Sorry to see you go Bob (as I noticed the unsubscribe notification). I > > assure you I did/do not explicitly filter/moderate the list (other than > > what default behavior Mailman applies). Looking that the held message's > > headers, it seems the list's email address was not explicitly listed, > > but rather BCC'd. See message header: > > > > Return-Path: > > > X-Original-To: grlug at grlug.org > > Received: from grlug.org ([127.0.0.1]) > > by localhost (maya.grlug.org [127.0.0.1]) > > (amavisd-new, port 10024) > > with ESMTP id 9SLFsldUSVhH for >; > > Fri, 10 May 2013 15:51:07 -0400 (EDT) > > Received-SPF: Pass (sender SPF authorized) identity=mailfrom; > > client-ip=209.85.212.43; helo=mail-vb0-f43.google.com > > ; envelope-from=bob.kline at gmail.com > > ; receiver=grlug at grlug.org > > > > Received: by 10.52.171.194 with HTTP; Fri, 10 May 2013 12:46:54 -0700 (PDT) > > Date: Fri, 10 May 2013 15:46:54 -0400 > > Message-ID: > > > > > > Subject: NOT LINUX: "Hollywood" tries again. > > *From: Bob Kline >* > > *To: undisclosed-recipients:;* > > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d6264d402b004dc626d51 > > > > The bounce notification you received was due to Mailman's default config > > - where the list has to be explicitly listed as a recipient. > > Yeah, this is the data I was hoping to see when I asked for the headers. > I suspected this was what had happened. Yes, these headers look like something that mailman would hold by default. It is something that mailman *should* block. Including the mailing list in a field other than To/Cc (or, as another example, along with some number of other emails) suggests that the email likely was sent to the mailing list by accident. Obviously, that was not the case for this email. Thus the need for a hopefully-existing moderator to step in and override the normally helpful heuristics? ;-) -- binki Look out for missing or extraneous apostrophes! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon May 13 00:11:19 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 00:11:19 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Hello. Long time... Message-ID: <1368418279.23792.0.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Long time no see. I'll be lurking the best I can... might be vocal from time to time. Cheers. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "God could not be everywhere, and therefore he made mothers." -- Rudyard Kipling -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From topher at codeventure.net Mon May 13 14:57:30 2013 From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 14:57:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Hello. Long time... In-Reply-To: <1368418279.23792.0.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1368418279.23792.0.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <5191379A.7010604@codeventure.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/13/2013 12:11 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > Long time no see. > > I'll be lurking the best I can... might be vocal from time to time. > > Cheers. > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug And the universe balances itself. Topher -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGRN5gACgkQgxSgrxn4sRBTYwCgrcY/9ktLUiDBaWJydjAUCIXZ /XMAoLQQ6Sdfuu5aRTxYZ9IrPYrOSlyF =Jkaq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtr at jrichards.org Mon May 13 15:01:35 2013 From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:01:35 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Hello. Long time... In-Reply-To: <5191379A.7010604@codeventure.net> References: <1368418279.23792.0.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <5191379A.7010604@codeventure.net> Message-ID: <20130513190135.GD29473@rondo.celtics> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 02:57:30PM -0400, Topher wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 05/13/2013 12:11 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > Long time no see. > > > > I'll be lurking the best I can... might be vocal from time to time. > > And the universe balances itself. It does, indeed! Good to have you back. :) -- john-thomas ------ The road to wisdom? Well it's plain and simple to express: Err and err and err again, but less and less and less. Piet Hein, poet and scientist (1905-1996) From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon May 13 15:41:50 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 15:41:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Hello. Long time... In-Reply-To: <20130513190135.GD29473@rondo.celtics> References: <1368418279.23792.0.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <5191379A.7010604@codeventure.net> <20130513190135.GD29473@rondo.celtics> Message-ID: <1368474110.23792.8.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Mon, 2013-05-13 at 15:01 -0400, John-Thomas Richards wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 02:57:30PM -0400, Topher wrote: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 05/13/2013 12:11 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > Long time no see. > > > > > > I'll be lurking the best I can... might be vocal from time to time. > > > > And the universe balances itself. > > It does, > indeed! > Good to > have you > back. Yahh... Yahhh... You take your 8 character wide responses and put them... Oh wait. I get it! Thanks for the ribbing JT. That Tizzles my izzles! -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "I am prepared for the worst, but hope for the best." -- Benjamin Disraeli -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From detrix42 at gmail.com Wed May 15 17:46:08 2013 From: detrix42 at gmail.com (detrix42 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:46:08 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] new location Message-ID: Hi, was wondering how early I can show up at the new building. I work 3rd shift and can only stay 'til 9:30. Jeret -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff at demaagd.com Wed May 15 17:49:56 2013 From: jeff at demaagd.com (Jeff DeMaagd) Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 17:49:56 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] new location In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51940304.7040001@demaagd.com> Ten minutes, opens at 6pm. On 5/15/13 5:46 PM, detrix42 at gmail.com wrote: > Hi, was wondering how early I can show up at the new building. I work > 3rd shift and can only stay 'til 9:30. > > Jeret > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Jeff DM-Accessories From detrix42 at gmail.com Thu May 16 21:42:03 2013 From: detrix42 at gmail.com (Jeret Lendman) Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 01:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [GRLUG] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <1101585725.26597033.1368754923846.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed82.prod> LinkedIn ------------ I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Jeret Jeret Lendman Decanter at JCI LDC Greater Grand Rapids, Michigan Area Confirm that you know Jeret Lendman: https://www.linkedin.com/e/-89bvvo-hgspcaia-s/isd/13347633265/aM_q8mqz/?hs=false&tok=16uSvLQJeC5RM1 -- You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe: http://www.linkedin.com/e/-89bvvo-hgspcaia-s/Xuabs-rkoK1lXoUhxhabrck13T/goo/grlug%40grlug%2Eorg/20061/I4422057126_1/?hs=false&tok=1JQJ9e9BmC5RM1 (c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg at gregfolkert.net Thu May 16 23:46:50 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 23:46:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn In-Reply-To: <1101585725.26597033.1368754923846.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed82.prod> References: <1101585725.26597033.1368754923846.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed82.prod> Message-ID: <1368762410.14786.1.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Fri, 2013-05-17 at 01:42 +0000, Jeret Lendman wrote > > [SNIP a Linked-In invite...] Should we tell Jeret? Or is this good enough? -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." -- Joseph Campbell -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Sat May 18 14:10:36 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 13:10:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 Message-ID: Recently discovered after a drive failure that the nice looking "Rebuild Array" option in the Intel MSM series of FakeRAID (i.e. MV/OS driver, not full HW) DOES NOT WORK (at least in XP)! Has anyone actually used one of these FakeRAIDs to rebuild a Volume? Can't imagine another solution (for cost) other than a VM Host, but that is too complicated for some of these installations. Lee From ebever at researchintegration.org Sat May 18 16:26:11 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 16:26:11 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] No screen UPDATE In-Reply-To: <1349790770.1664.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1349790770.1664.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1368908771.10248.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> All of a sudden (I think this morning after the latest update of Fedora 17) the computer is properly behaving after suspend. Apparently something in the update either advertently or inadvertently fixed whatever was the problem. From what I managed to gather last fall, the problem involved the graphics not shutting down properly so there was no graphic startup coming out of suspend. We'll see if the good behavior persists. I'd like to reward the good behavior, but computers haven't reached that point yet. (Tho they do sometimes respond to kicks and cursing.) EB On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 09:52 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: > It happened again, coming out of suspend. > Any suggestions (other than "don't suspend"). > > On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 08:11 -0400, Ebever wrote: > > Strange. I noticed the battery light was on even when it was shut down completely. So removed batt for a moment. When it was replaced the box booted OK!? > > > > Whatever. > > > > Ebever wrote: > > > > >I got up this morning, opened the lid on my Fedora 17 box to bring it out of suspend and got only a blank screen. I powered down and restarted. Got the Lenovo startup screen and the booting fedora screen but then nothing. Tried this several times to no avail. > > > > > >It may have completed the boot, since it seems to go into suspend mode when I put the lid down. > > > > > >Unfortunately I'm on the road (in GR) so I don-t have monitor to try it with. > > > > > >Any ideas? > > > > > >Thanks. > > > > > >(Painfully typed on my Xoom.) > > >_______________________________________________ > > >grlug mailing list > > >grlug at grlug.org > > >http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From ebever at researchintegration.org Sat May 18 17:36:32 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 17:36:32 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] doc crashing gedit Message-ID: <1368912992.10248.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Suddenly a document I've been opening all along in gedit is crashing gedit: It opens, flashes on the screen for an instant, and crashes. No other text documents seem to be doing this, and the doc in question opens fine in kwrite. I think it was when I had it open that I was trying to figure out the modelines plugin and turned it off. And I hadn't done anything with modelines, since no one on line seems to want to explain it beyond referring to modelines in Kate and vim. But that doesn't seem to have affected other text documents--when I open them in gedit they show the plugin turned off. From knightperson at zuzax.com Sun May 19 20:52:24 2013 From: knightperson at zuzax.com (Mike Williams) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:52:24 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> Is the array at least still up? I had a fakeRAID controller years ago where the array was marked as unusable as soon as the primary drive failed, regardless of the status of the secondary. No, a proper mirror set doesn't have a primary drive, but this piece of junk did. I just pulled the fakeRAID card, plugged the primary drive into the motherboard and rebuilt the startup environment. I've never used this particular card series, but have you confronted Intel's (or the card manufacturer's) support about their unusable utility? On 05/18/2013 02:10 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Recently discovered after a drive failure that the nice looking "Rebuild > Array" option in the Intel MSM series of FakeRAID (i.e. MV/OS driver, not > full HW) DOES NOT WORK (at least in XP)! > > Has anyone actually used one of these FakeRAIDs to rebuild a Volume? Can't > imagine another solution (for cost) other than a VM Host, but that is too > complicated for some of these installations. > > Lee > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From lvl at omnitec.net Sun May 19 21:50:16 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 20:50:16 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> References: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 May 2013, Mike Williams wrote: > Is the array at least still up? I had a fakeRAID controller years ago > where the array was marked as unusable as soon as the primary drive > failed, regardless of the status of the secondary. No, a proper mirror > set doesn't have a primary drive, but this piece of junk did. I just > pulled the fakeRAID card, plugged the primary drive into the motherboard > and rebuilt the startup environment. > Yes, it is still running on one drive, with nightly backups. > I've never used this particular card series, but have you confronted > Intel's (or the card manufacturer's) support about their unusable utility? > Their support forums have numerous reports of this issue, but no solution. I was going to try and get a 2-port SATA 'real' RAID card, but have been unable to identify a 'real' one worth testing. If anyone has a suggestion, please advise. Thanks! Lee From jeff at demaagd.com Sun May 19 22:17:00 2013 From: jeff at demaagd.com (Jeff DeMaagd) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 22:17:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: References: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> Message-ID: <3650AE11-3B03-49D0-801F-F33E2B311611@demaagd.com> I think the general solution is to use the mirroring feature in your choice of OS. If you're trying to multi boot a mirrored drive, then you might need a high dollar RAID adapter. The cheap RAID cards and on-board solutions have more than earned their poor reputation. Even some of the expensive ones can be clumsy at best. -- Jeff DM Accessories LLC http://shop.dm-accessories.com On May 19, 2013, at 9:50 PM, "L. V. Lammert" wrote: > On Sun, 19 May 2013, Mike Williams wrote: > >> Is the array at least still up? I had a fakeRAID controller years ago >> where the array was marked as unusable as soon as the primary drive >> failed, regardless of the status of the secondary. No, a proper mirror >> set doesn't have a primary drive, but this piece of junk did. I just >> pulled the fakeRAID card, plugged the primary drive into the motherboard >> and rebuilt the startup environment. > Yes, it is still running on one drive, with nightly backups. > >> I've never used this particular card series, but have you confronted >> Intel's (or the card manufacturer's) support about their unusable utility? > Their support forums have numerous reports of this issue, but no solution. > > I was going to try and get a 2-port SATA 'real' RAID card, but have been > unable to identify a 'real' one worth testing. > > If anyone has a suggestion, please advise. > > Thanks! > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From lvl at omnitec.net Sun May 19 22:53:07 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 21:53:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: <3650AE11-3B03-49D0-801F-F33E2B311611@demaagd.com> References: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> <3650AE11-3B03-49D0-801F-F33E2B311611@demaagd.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 May 2013, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > I think the general solution is to use the mirroring feature in your choice of OS. > That was the original design and implementation, only to find out that the Intel MSM was incabable of rebuilding the array after a disk failed. > If you're trying to multi boot a mirrored drive, then you might need a > high dollar RAID adapter. The cheap RAID cards and on-board solutions > have more than earned their poor reputation. Even some of the expensive > ones can be clumsy at best. > No argument there, however we really would like to find some solution where we can actually USE a RAID Mirror Volume. Thanks! Lee From lvl at omnitec.net Sun May 19 23:04:44 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 22:04:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: References: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> Message-ID: Following up, ... has anyone experience with this style of SATA RAID card? The specs state Linux compatible, so would that not mean they provide "real" RAID support and could be a HW option to the Intel MSM? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815104219 Thanks! Lee From matt at zigg.com Mon May 20 08:26:27 2013 From: matt at zigg.com (Matt Behrens) Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 08:26:27 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: References: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> Message-ID: <82579984-2F66-4F7C-A063-4239CF262BE5@zigg.com> On May 19, 2013, at 11:04 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Following up, ... has anyone experience with this style of SATA RAID card? > The specs state Linux compatible, so would that not mean they provide > "real" RAID support and could be a HW option to the Intel MSM? I've got nothing specific on this card, but Linux support is achievable with a driver, so that's not necessarily a sign it's a real hardware controller. I have a server with Intel ESRT2 upstairs. There seems to be enough support to boot Linux and you can build your RAID set from a BIOS screen, but you need a driver disk at install time to have it actually function once the kernel is up and running. Without the driver, you have no running system. Hurts a little that said driver is only available from Intel in poorly-documented binary form, rather than included in the kernel directly. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4334 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scott.tanner at comcast.net Tue May 21 00:28:52 2013 From: scott.tanner at comcast.net (scott.tanner at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 04:28:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: <82579984-2F66-4F7C-A063-4239CF262BE5@zigg.com> Message-ID: <1244792425.186561.1369110532698.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Likewise , I don't have any experience with that card, but I have several servers running basic mirrors using LSI based HBA cards . These have no onboard cache and limit ed features compared to the more expensi ve RAID cards, but support R AID 0,1 and 1EE . Here's a nice listing of the vendor rebranding of these cards : http://forums.servethehome.com/raid-controllers-host-bus-adapters/19-lsi-raid-controller-hba-equivalency-mapping.html I've bought several RAID and HBA cards used in the past, and had very few failures with them overall . I found a couple of the SAS HBA's on e ba y for as low as $35 , thou gh for the same price: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LSI-Logic-MegaRAID-SAS-8308ELP-8-Port-RAID-Controller-with-07-00015-01-cable-/230978416840?pt=US_Server_Disk_Controllers_RAID_Cards&hash=item35c762f0c8 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adaptec-RAID-ASR-3405-128mg-CONTROLLER-SAS-SATA-/230982452345?pt=US_Server_Disk_Controllers_RAID_Cards&hash=item35c7a08479 Regards, Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Behrens" To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area." Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:26:27 AM Subject: Re: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 On May 19, 2013, at 11:04 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Following up, ... has anyone experience with this style of SATA RAID card? > The specs state Linux compatible, so would that not mean they provide > "real" RAID support and could be a HW option to the Intel MSM? I've got nothing specific on this card, but Linux support is achievable with a driver, so that's not necessarily a sign it's a real hardware controller. I have a server with Intel ESRT2 upstairs. There seems to be enough support to boot Linux and you can build your RAID set from a BIOS screen, but you need a driver disk at install time to have it actually function once the kernel is up and running. Without the driver, you have no running system. Hurts a little that said driver is only available from Intel in poorly-documented binary form, rather than included in the kernel directly. _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From awilliam at whitemice.org Tue May 21 06:05:32 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 06:05:32 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] OT, .. Rebuildable RAID1 In-Reply-To: References: <519973C8.2090201@zuzax.com> <3650AE11-3B03-49D0-801F-F33E2B311611@demaagd.com> Message-ID: <1369130732.2578.5.camel@linux-86wr.site> On Sun, 2013-05-19 at 21:53 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Sun, 19 May 2013, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > > I think the general solution is to use the mirroring feature in your choice of OS. > That was the original design and implementation, only to find out that the > Intel MSM was incabable of rebuilding the array after a disk failed. Using the Intel MSM is not using "the mirroring feature in your choice of OS". But there is no support for OS-level mirroring in Windows XP, you need to be on Windows 2000/2003 Server as well as be using Dynamic Volumes to have that feature [Basic vs. Dynamic volumes is one of the most frustrating 'features' of all time]. The simplest approach here would just be to upgrade the OS and use mirroring via the volume manager. Then you can skip all the toy hardware. -- Adam Tauno Williams GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA From topher at codeventure.net Tue May 21 13:09:12 2013 From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:09:12 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice Message-ID: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe it clean. I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a simple way to load minecraft. So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox sounds about right. Any suggestions? Topher From brousch at gmail.com Tue May 21 13:21:46 2013 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:21:46 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> Message-ID: How about Lubuntu (LXDE)? On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Topher wrote: > I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND > client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. > No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe > it clean. > > I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as > possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a > simple way to load minecraft. > > So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking > not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox > sounds about right. > > Any suggestions? > > Topher > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ From slestak989 at gmail.com Tue May 21 13:24:18 2013 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:24:18 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> Message-ID: Crunchbang uses openbox on debian. On May 21, 2013 1:09 PM, "Topher" wrote: > I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND > client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. > No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe > it clean. > > I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as > possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a > simple way to load minecraft. > > So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking > not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox > sounds about right. > > Any suggestions? > > Topher > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From topher at codeventure.net Tue May 21 13:34:58 2013 From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:34:58 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> Message-ID: <519BB042.4060104@codeventure.net> On 05/21/2013 01:21 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > How about Lubuntu (LXDE)? I thought about that, but *buntu usually comes with so much extra stuff I don't need. Does Lubuntu From brousch at gmail.com Tue May 21 13:43:09 2013 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:43:09 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BB042.4060104@codeventure.net> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> <519BB042.4060104@codeventure.net> Message-ID: It comes with lighter-weight versions of all the stuff you don't need. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Setup#Applications On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Topher wrote: > On 05/21/2013 01:21 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: >> How about Lubuntu (LXDE)? > > I thought about that, but *buntu usually comes with so much extra stuff > I don't need. Does Lubuntu > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ From mikemol at gmail.com Tue May 21 13:45:15 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:45:15 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BB042.4060104@codeventure.net> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> <519BB042.4060104@codeventure.net> Message-ID: <519BB2AB.4040808@gmail.com> On 05/21/2013 01:34 PM, Topher wrote: > On 05/21/2013 01:21 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: >> How about Lubuntu (LXDE)? > > I thought about that, but *buntu usually comes with so much extra stuff > I don't need. Does Lubuntu It's a desktop environment, so, yes. If you really want to start small and work your way up, start with ubuntu-server and install the packages you want. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From parsleyfirefly at gmail.com Tue May 21 13:54:30 2013 From: parsleyfirefly at gmail.com (Dagny Mol) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 13:54:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BB2AB.4040808@gmail.com> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> <519BB042.4060104@codeventure.net> <519BB2AB.4040808@gmail.com> Message-ID: Crunchbang is a really good distro for ease of installing a fairly minimal system. You can go from the ground up with a server-based distribution and have something very good, but it is a bit more time-consuming. Dagny On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On 05/21/2013 01:34 PM, Topher wrote: > > On 05/21/2013 01:21 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > >> How about Lubuntu (LXDE)? > > > > I thought about that, but *buntu usually comes with so much extra stuff > > I don't need. Does Lubuntu > > It's a desktop environment, so, yes. > > If you really want to start small and work your way up, start with > ubuntu-server and install the packages you want. > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtr at jrichards.org Tue May 21 14:09:12 2013 From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:09:12 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> Message-ID: <20130521180912.GA22873@rondo.celtics> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 01:09:12PM -0400, Topher wrote: > I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND > client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. > No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe > it clean. > > I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as > possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a > simple way to load minecraft. > > So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking > not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox > sounds about right. > > Any suggestions? Why bother with xorg at all? Just install your favorite (painless) distro without x stuff. Or remove the x stuff after install. You can run the minecraft server from the commandline (is there a GUI for it?). -- john-thomas ------ When a train goes through a tunnel and it gets dark, you don't throw away the ticket and jump off. You sit still and trust the engineer. Corrie Ten Boom, author and Holocaust survivor From jtr at jrichards.org Tue May 21 14:10:55 2013 From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:10:55 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> Message-ID: <20130521181055.GB22873@rondo.celtics> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 01:09:12PM -0400, Topher wrote: > I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND > client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. > No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe > it clean. > > I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as > possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a > simple way to load minecraft. > > So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking > not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox > sounds about right. And since when does a guy who runs Arch care about an "easy install"? One would think any distro that actually _has_ an installer would qualify as "easy" to an Arch guy. ;) -- john-thomas ------ It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. Rene Descartes, "Le Discours de la Methode," 1637 From mikemol at gmail.com Tue May 21 14:18:44 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:18:44 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <20130521181055.GB22873@rondo.celtics> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> <20130521181055.GB22873@rondo.celtics> Message-ID: <519BBA84.5050706@gmail.com> On 05/21/2013 02:10 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 01:09:12PM -0400, Topher wrote: >> I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND >> client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. >> No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe >> it clean. >> >> I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as >> possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a >> simple way to load minecraft. >> >> So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking >> not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox >> sounds about right. > > And since when does a guy who runs Arch care about an "easy install"? > One would think any distro that actually _has_ an installer would > qualify as "easy" to an Arch guy. ;) > I missed that he was accustomed to Arch. In that event, it's time for him to learn Gentoo. We take Arch refugees all the time... :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 555 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jtr at jrichards.org Tue May 21 14:25:27 2013 From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:25:27 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <20130521180912.GA22873@rondo.celtics> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> <20130521180912.GA22873@rondo.celtics> Message-ID: <20130521182527.GC22873@rondo.celtics> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 02:09:12PM -0400, John-Thomas Richards wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 01:09:12PM -0400, Topher wrote: > > I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND > > client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. > > No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe > > it clean. > > > > I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as > > possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a > > simple way to load minecraft. > > > > So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking > > not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox > > sounds about right. > > > > Any suggestions? > > Why bother with xorg at all? Just install your favorite (painless) > distro without x stuff. Or remove the x stuff after install. You can run > the minecraft server from the commandline (is there a GUI for it?). If I had actually read your question closely, I would have noticed the client part. Yep, you need xorg for that. I'd go with Crunchbang. Very, very light with a simple install. -- john-thomas ------ Moderate giftedness has been made worthless by the printing press and radio and television and satellites and all that. A moderately gifted person who would have been a community treasure a thousand years ago has to give up, has to go into some other line of work, since modern communications put him or her into daily competition with nothing but world's champions. Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., novelist (1922-2007) From patrick at upmerchants.com Tue May 21 14:41:02 2013 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:41:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> Message-ID: <519BBFBE.5030805@upmerchants.com> On 05/21/2013 01:24 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > > Crunchbang uses openbox on debian. > Crunchbang is a good choice. So I vote thumbs up for it. If you get to a point of really wanting to do it by yourself, do the debian server install, then install lxde, the light desktop environment. See this post to show you how: http://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/lightweight-debian-lxde-desktop-from-scratch/ From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon May 27 21:58:00 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 21:58:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] So...Opinions? Message-ID: <1369706280.12811.9.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Are we seeing good improvements with the performance of 3.8 series kernels yet. I am, significantly better performance. Opinions? -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "He who is brave is free." -- Lucius Annaeus Seneca -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From grlugcasey at gmail.com Tue May 28 09:53:05 2013 From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 09:53:05 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: May WMLUG Meeting References: <20130528064404.baf11c0cfa79f013a46d2656cdd0f368.e508ee13c5.wbe@email11.secureserver.net> Message-ID: This weeks Linux meeting, details below. Regards, Casey DuBois 616-808-6942 Begin forwarded message: > From: > Date: May 28, 2013, 9:44:04 AM EDT > To: president at wmlug.org > Subject: May WMLUG Meeting > > Greetings, > > This week Thursday, 5/30, is the next WMLUG meeting where Jared Swets will be talking about FreeNAS, and I'll be giving an intro to DOSBOx. > > We'll be meeting at New Horizons in room 1 at 6 pm. The address is 630 Kenmoor Ave SE, Suite 201, Grand Rapids MI 49546. > > Snacks and pop will be provided. If you can, please let me know if you plan on attending so I can plan accordingly. Note: If you get there after 6:30 and the doors are locked, please call my cell at 616-295-5168 so we can let you in. > > I hope you can make it. > > For the June meeting, we'll be at Schmohz's Brewery for another social night. > > --Patrick > > Patrick TenHoopen > President - West Michigan Linux Users Group > http://www.wmlug.org > president at wmlug.org > ptenhoopen at gmail.com > +ptenhoopen on Google+ > ptenhoopen on Twitter > 616-295-5168 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From don.ellis at gmail.com Tue May 28 19:06:02 2013 From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 18:06:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: <519BBA84.5050706@gmail.com> References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> <20130521181055.GB22873@rondo.celtics> <519BBA84.5050706@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On 05/21/2013 02:10 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote: > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 01:09:12PM -0400, Topher wrote: > >> I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server AND > >> client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. > >> No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to wipe > >> it clean. > >> > >> I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as > >> possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a > >> simple way to load minecraft. > >> > >> So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking > >> not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox > >> sounds about right. > > > > And since when does a guy who runs Arch care about an "easy install"? > > One would think any distro that actually _has_ an installer would > > qualify as "easy" to an Arch guy. ;) > > > > I missed that he was accustomed to Arch. > > In that event, it's time for him to learn Gentoo. We take Arch refugees > all the time... :) > Exactly what has been recommended to me in this context. The "installer" gives you exactly what you ask for, no more, no less. All you have to do is to know what to ask for... --Don Ellis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richardnienhuis at gmail.com Tue May 28 21:43:04 2013 From: richardnienhuis at gmail.com (Richard Nienhuis) Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 21:43:04 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] distro advice In-Reply-To: References: <519BAA38.2030501@codeventure.net> <20130521181055.GB22873@rondo.celtics> <519BBA84.5050706@gmail.com> Message-ID: You could also just install http://www.mineosplus.org/ On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 7:06 PM, Don Ellis wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > >> On 05/21/2013 02:10 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote: >> > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 01:09:12PM -0400, Topher wrote: >> >> I have a slightly older box that I want to use as a minecraft server >> AND >> >> client. It has a VERY old version of mint as well as winXP on it. >> >> No-one's used the box in a while, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to >> wipe >> >> it clean. >> >> >> >> I want to put linux on it, and I want the install to be as painless as >> >> possible. The desktop pretty much doesn't matter, since we just need a >> >> simple way to load minecraft. >> >> >> >> So I need something kind of light, with an easy install. I'm thinking >> >> not gnome or kde, and probably not even xfce. Something like fluxbox >> >> sounds about right. >> > >> > And since when does a guy who runs Arch care about an "easy install"? >> > One would think any distro that actually _has_ an installer would >> > qualify as "easy" to an Arch guy. ;) >> > >> >> I missed that he was accustomed to Arch. >> >> In that event, it's time for him to learn Gentoo. We take Arch refugees >> all the time... :) >> > > Exactly what has been recommended to me in this context. The "installer" > gives you exactly what you ask for, no more, no less. All you have to do is > to know what to ask for... > > --Don Ellis > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Thu May 30 18:03:04 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 18:03:04 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] problem after disconnecting external monitor Message-ID: <1369951384.1612.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Using Fedora 17 on lenovo x120e laptop. When I connect an external monitor, the monitor is recognized automatically and works fine as I drag windows to and from it. My problem is when I want to disconnect the external monitor. My desktop display is skewed way to the left so that I only see a few of the icons. (Using 'Have file manager handle desktop' from gnome-tweak-tool.) There must be some way to do this, but I haven't found it. None of the ff give me the desktop back properly: -Use System Settings/Displays to turn off the external monitor before disconnecting -Unplug the external monitor before turning it off -Turn off external monitor before unplugging. Is there a procedure I'm missing? Or could this be a bug? Thanks. From grlugcasey at gmail.com Thu May 30 15:17:32 2013 From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 15:17:32 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: Partners-in-Crime: GR Current Launch Event Info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Linux friends and Makers!!! Please register and attend this GREAT event next week Tuesday. I look forward to seeing EVERYONE!!!!!! Hola amigos, In preparation for GR Current's Rooftop Happy Hour, we'd like to pass on event information to your members, partners and staff. Please use attached visual and direct people to sign up on our page at: http://grcurrent.com/events/rooftop-happy-hour/ As an update, we've received incredible registrant numbers. As of now, we are at 270, including some city/state/investor/entrepreneurial heavy hitters (the free beer worked!). Extensive media coverage. If you're blasting through social media, there are some awesome tags that you can include/use. - GRMakers sponsored EAI's cable cam throughout the facility, taking video/pictures from above (drone will be there, GRPD said no flying- bummer) - Commissioned art piece from Reyna Garcia to be raffled. First 50 get two chances to win - Trying to get the iPad table from Universal Mind, to be confirmed - We're having more techy-based companies bringing in their toys (3D printer in the works) - Entertainment will be the Soil & the Sun (played at TedxGR) - BarFly Ventures is catering an inventive menu, complete with a Bellini Station! Let me know if I can be of any assistance in communicating our event. As our outreach is extensive, I've opened tickets to surpass the 300 limit (physical cap at 600). FB: facebook.com/GRCurrent TW: @GRCurrent Cheers, Felip -- Casey DuBois 616-808-6942 casey at grlug.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: grcurrent-new-card.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 249912 bytes Desc: not available URL: