From lvl at omnitec.net Fri Aug 2 17:56:37 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 16:56:37 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help Message-ID: Trying to configure a site-to-site with two RVN42s but cannot get the tunnel to come up. Anyone interested in helping [$]? Lee From awilliam at whitemice.org Fri Aug 2 18:18:35 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:18:35 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> On Fri, 2013-08-02 at 16:56 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Trying to configure a site-to-site with two RVN42s but cannot get the > tunnel to come up. I assume you mean Linksys RVN42s. My advice is to junk them and pick-up a couple real routers (Cisco 28xx, you can get them cheap on E-Bay). Then I can e-mail you a config you can can cut-n-paste into the routers and they will work, reliably, every time, all the time. Performance will be great. The Linksys stuff is toy junk with lousy, if any, documentation. > Anyone interested in helping [$]? From knightperson at zuzax.com Fri Aug 2 19:27:39 2013 From: knightperson at zuzax.com (Mike Williams) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 19:27:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> You could try putting open / dd / tomato WRT on the RVN42's, whatever they are. It might still be a poor VPN implementation, but at least the plumbing would be exposed. OpenVPN is a fairly no-frills SSL tunnel, but it's easy to get working. A WRT would also support a fancier implementation if you wanted. On 08/02/2013 06:18 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > On Fri, 2013-08-02 at 16:56 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: >> Trying to configure a site-to-site with two RVN42s but cannot get the >> tunnel to come up. > I assume you mean Linksys RVN42s. My advice is to junk them and pick-up > a couple real routers (Cisco 28xx, you can get them cheap on E-Bay). > > Then I can e-mail you a config you can can cut-n-paste into the routers > and they will work, reliably, every time, all the time. Performance > will be great. > > The Linksys stuff is toy junk with lousy, if any, documentation. > >> Anyone interested in helping [$]? > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From lvl at omnitec.net Fri Aug 2 19:30:54 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 18:30:54 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Mike Williams wrote: > You could try putting open / dd / tomato WRT on the RVN42's, whatever > they are. It might still be a poor VPN implementation, but at least the > plumbing would be exposed. OpenVPN is a fairly no-frills SSL tunnel, but > it's easy to get working. A WRT would also support a fancier > implementation if you wanted. > That would only make the situation worse, .. The VPN plumbing is totally exposed on the RVN042 - all options are there on both sides, .. as are the log files. Just can't figure out why it won't come up. I have never played with them before, so it has to be something I am not doing correctly. Lee From geektoyz at gmail.com Fri Aug 2 19:55:19 2013 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2013 19:55:19 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> Message-ID: I setup the openswan side of a tunnel with an rv082 a loooong time ago. It was solid. This site helps a dude troubleshoot what seems like an active tunnel. His issue is he's using netkey, so there's no ipsec0 interface (only available if you compile ipsec.ko module as I prefer). Anyhoot, hopefully the screenshots of the rv042 help. G- http://www.clearfoundation.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,232/catid,21/func,view/id,45543/ On Aug 2, 2013 7:31 PM, "L. V. Lammert" wrote: > On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Mike Williams wrote: > > > You could try putting open / dd / tomato WRT on the RVN42's, whatever > > they are. It might still be a poor VPN implementation, but at least the > > plumbing would be exposed. OpenVPN is a fairly no-frills SSL tunnel, but > > it's easy to get working. A WRT would also support a fancier > > implementation if you wanted. > > > That would only make the situation worse, .. > > The VPN plumbing is totally exposed on the RVN042 - all options are there > on both sides, .. as are the log files. Just can't figure out why it won't > come up. I have never played with them before, so it has to be something I > am not doing correctly. > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg at gregfolkert.net Fri Aug 2 23:17:26 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 23:17:26 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> Message-ID: <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Fri, 2013-08-02 at 19:55 -0400, Godwin wrote: > I setup the openswan side of a tunnel with an rv082 a loooong time > ago. It was solid. This site helps a dude troubleshoot what seems > like an active tunnel. His issue is he's using netkey, so there's no > ipsec0 interface (only available if you compile ipsec.ko module as I > prefer). > > Anyhoot, hopefully the screenshots of the rv042 help. > > G- > > http://www.clearfoundation.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,232/catid,21/func,view/id,45543/ > I agree with Godwin. I use OpenSwan for multiple VPN connections. Performance is very good. I use an 850MHz single processor machine as the concentrator and some dual processor 550MHz machines on the other ends of a certain links. I also have some CISCO gear on the other ends of other links. I've got my setup to auto-build of the connections and we use a PSK. Literally, there is little any stability issues nor any communication issues. I also have VPN to my private remote cloud VMs... perfectly capable using OpenSwan. I'd forgo the Linksys POSs and just dump a cheap Linux machine on each end of the links. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "If you're going through hell, keep going." -- Winston Churchill -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Sun Aug 4 12:45:01 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 11:45:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > I assume you mean Linksys RVN42s. My advice is to junk them and pick-up > a couple real routers (Cisco 28xx, you can get them cheap on E-Bay). > Actually, they are Cisco now, and were the only router with a reasonable price point that had full VPN capability. The other factor is physical space - no room for rack-size, so 2800s would not work. > Then I can e-mail you a config you can can cut-n-paste into the routers > and they will work, reliably, every time, all the time. Performance > will be great. > That would be great - how much of a problem would be the 'translation' to a GUI? > The Linksys stuff is toy junk with lousy, if any, documentation. > There doesn't seem to be ANY VPN documentation or HowTos for Cisco other than ASA? > > Anyone interested in helping [$]? > Let me know if you would like to take a look , .. Thanks! Lee From greg at gregfolkert.net Sun Aug 4 13:23:53 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:23:53 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: <1375637033.4272.27.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 11:45 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > > > I assume you mean Linksys RVN42s. My advice is to junk them and pick-up > > a couple real routers (Cisco 28xx, you can get them cheap on E-Bay). > > > Actually, they are Cisco now, and were the only router with a reasonable > price point that had full VPN capability. The other factor is physical > space - no room for rack-size, so 2800s would not work. They are the Linksys Junk, never has had any real quality to them. Didn't you hear, Cisco is spinning off linksys now. > > Then I can e-mail you a config you can can cut-n-paste into the routers > > and they will work, reliably, every time, all the time. Performance > > will be great. > > > That would be great - how much of a problem would be the 'translation' to > a GUI? > > > The Linksys stuff is toy junk with lousy, if any, documentation. > > > There doesn't seem to be ANY VPN documentation or HowTos for Cisco other > than ASA? That is because it is not Cisco proper... only the name is slapped onto the Linksys crap. My advice is get a couple $100 computers and make the VPN over each of them with OpenSwan. It works very well and has none (that I have seen) of the stability issues I've seen with the Linksys stuff. Plus, it is very easy to setup, especially when using a PSK. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "Man never made any material as resilient as the human spirit." -- Bernard Williams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From awilliam at whitemice.org Sun Aug 4 14:56:34 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:56:34 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: <1375642594.5440.5.camel@linux-22wg.site> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 11:45 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > > I assume you mean Linksys RVN42s. My advice is to junk them and pick-up > > a couple real routers (Cisco 28xx, you can get them cheap on E-Bay). > Actually, they are Cisco now, No, they are not. They are owned and labeled by Cisco. "Cisco" hardware runs the IOS platform. > and were the only router with a reasonable > price point that had full VPN capability. The other factor is physical > space - no room for rack-size, so 2800s would not work. > > Then I can e-mail you a config you can can cut-n-paste into the routers > > and they will work, reliably, every time, all the time. Performance > > will be great. > That would be great - how much of a problem would be the 'translation' to > a GUI? It would be impossible. Chinsy half-baked crap designed by people who do not really know what they are doing and then with a dreadful one-off configuration mechanism slathered on top... there is simply no knowing what any given field in their configy UI is actually going to do; and what *assumptions* their crappy software is going to make based on any configuration options you choose. You just waste hours and hours fighting with crap knock-off routers. > > The Linksys stuff is toy junk with lousy, if any, documentation. > There doesn't seem to be ANY VPN documentation or HowTos for Cisco other > than ASA? Once you leave the IOS platform you are wandering alone in the wilderness, at night. Are those wolves I hear in the distance? Must have caught the scent of another poor soul using re-branded Linksys junk. From scott.tanner at comcast.net Sun Aug 4 15:49:46 2013 From: scott.tanner at comcast.net (scott.tanner at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 19:49:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1027028949.1648097.1375645786699.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Was the linksys RVN42 rebranded to RV042? http://sbkb.cisco.com/CiscoSB/Loginr.aspx?login=1&pid=4&app=search&vw=1&articleid=623 (basic setup) http://www.cisco.com/cisco/web/support/model/tsd_smb_router_rv042.html#0 http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/csbr/app_notes/rv0xx_g2gvpn_an_OL-26286.pdf Can you post any screenshots of the VPN config? We inherited some LinkCisco equipment and any advanced configuration has been a nightmare. Regards, Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. V. Lammert" To: awilliam at whitemice.org, "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area." Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 12:45:01 PM Subject: Re: [GRLUG] VPN Help On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > I assume you mean Linksys RVN42s. My advice is to junk them and pick-up > a couple real routers (Cisco 28xx, you can get them cheap on E-Bay). > Actually, they are Cisco now, and were the only router with a reasonable price point that had full VPN capability. The other factor is physical space - no room for rack-size, so 2800s would not work. > Then I can e-mail you a config you can can cut-n-paste into the routers > and they will work, reliably, every time, all the time. Performance > will be great. > That would be great - how much of a problem would be the 'translation' to a GUI? > The Linksys stuff is toy junk with lousy, if any, documentation. > There doesn't seem to be ANY VPN documentation or HowTos for Cisco other than ASA? > > Anyone interested in helping [$]? > Let me know if you would like to take a look , .. Thanks! Lee _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Sun Aug 4 16:38:01 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 15:38:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <1027028949.1648097.1375645786699.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1027028949.1648097.1375645786699.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 scott.tanner at comcast.net wrote: > Was the linksys RVN42 rebranded to RV042? > Don't know about rebranding, but it's definately a Cisco box now - new form factor. > Can you post any screenshots of the VPN config? > Can't save a screenshot for some reason (accessing via TV), but here is the log I captured Friday: Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder Send Main Mode 2nd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder Send Main Mode 2nd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] <<< Responder Received Main Mode 3rd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] <<< Responder Received Main Mode 3rd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: NAT-Traversal: Result using RFC 3947: no NAT detected Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: NAT-Traversal: Result using RFC 3947: no NAT detected Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder send Main Mode 4th packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder send Main Mode 4th packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: sending encrypted notification PAYLOAD_MALFORMED to 96.35.167.38:500 Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: sending encrypted notification PAYLOAD_MALFORMED to 96.35.167.38:500 The preshared secrets are the same, .. copy & paste, so the malformed paylod is a question. > We inherited some LinkCisco equipment and any advanced configuration > has been a nightmare. > Seems like it should be simple, but what I cannot get straight in my mind is how a user at the remote site (192.168.2.0) would connect to an IP at the main office (192.167.1.149). Seems like there has to be a specific forward setup in the the remote router, but I can't figure that out from the config screens. Thanks!! Lee From lvl at omnitec.net Sun Aug 4 17:34:04 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 16:34:04 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> At 10:17 PM 8/2/2013, Greg Folkert wrote: >I'd forgo the Linksys POSs and just dump a cheap Linux machine on each >end of the links. Don't know of many business that would want a cobbled-together machine vs. something new from a vendor with a warranty, .. Thanks anyway, Lee From awilliam at whitemice.org Sun Aug 4 17:44:51 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:44:51 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> Message-ID: <1375652691.4912.28.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 16:34 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > At 10:17 PM 8/2/2013, Greg Folkert wrote: > >I'd forgo the Linksys POSs and just dump a cheap Linux machine on each > >end of the links. > Don't know of many business that would want a cobbled-together > machine vs. I don't know many business that would know enough to ask anything beyond 'is it working?' And OpenSWAN is hardled 'cobbled'; their documentation is quite good, and they've been around since IPSec was a glimmer in a frustrated net-admin's eye. > something new from a vendor with a warranty, .. A piece of crap from a vendor being dumped by its parent and with a support life-cycle roughly equivalent to how long it took you to walk out the door. Put the manual on a thumbdrive and duct-tape it to the device [seriously!] - because six months from now you [or the poor sod who inherits this thing] will not be able to find anything at all about this unit. -- Adam Tauno Williams System Administrator, OpenGroupware Developer, LPI / CNA Fingerprint 8C08 209A FBE3 C41A DD2F A270 2D17 8FA4 D95E D383 From lvl at omnitec.net Sun Aug 4 18:03:24 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 17:03:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <1375652691.4912.28.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> <1375652691.4912.28.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: <201308042202.r74M2Q09007818@Mail.omnitec.net> At 04:44 PM 8/4/2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: >A piece of crap from a vendor being dumped by its parent and with a >support life-cycle roughly equivalent to how long it took you to walk >out the door. Put the manual on a thumbdrive and duct-tape it to the >device [seriously!] - because six months from now you [or the poor sod >who inherits this thing] will not be able to find anything at all about >this unit. OK, .. we ALL know by now how much you hate Linksys and LOVE putting together a POJ that you have to support, .. how about something maybe OT and *constructive* like hints on how to configure a remote-site-to-server VPN? Lee From patrick at upmerchants.com Sun Aug 4 18:12:29 2013 From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:12:29 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <201308042202.r74M2Q09007818@Mail.omnitec.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> <1375652691.4912.28.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <201308042202.r74M2Q09007818@Mail.omnitec.net> Message-ID: <51FED1CD.7060808@upmerchants.com> Have you heard of untangle? Maybe that would do what you need and is not a "piece of junk". On 08/04/2013 06:03 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote: > At 04:44 PM 8/4/2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > >> A piece of crap from a vendor being dumped by its parent and with a >> support life-cycle roughly equivalent to how long it took you to walk >> out the door. Put the manual on a thumbdrive and duct-tape it to the >> device [seriously!] - because six months from now you [or the poor sod >> who inherits this thing] will not be able to find anything at all about >> this unit. > > OK, .. we ALL know by now how much you hate Linksys and LOVE putting > together a POJ that you have to support, .. how about something maybe > OT and *constructive* like hints on how to configure a > remote-site-to-server VPN? > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > -- Patrick Goupell Are you free? Find out at http://www.sedm.org/ Income taxes? Find out at http://www.truthattack.org or this http://www.whatistaxed.com From greg at gregfolkert.net Sun Aug 4 18:54:20 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 18:54:20 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> Message-ID: <1375656860.4272.45.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 16:34 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > At 10:17 PM 8/2/2013, Greg Folkert wrote: > > >I'd forgo the Linksys POSs and just dump a cheap Linux machine on each > >end of the links. > > Don't know of many business that would want a cobbled-together > machine vs. something new from a vendor with a warranty, .. You seem to not know that "I do this stuff for a living." I only use things I don't have to touch except in hardware failure modes. I replaced a CISCO something or other with an 850MHz PIII "Network Blazer" 1U machine in mid-2007. I had 15 B-to-B VPNs going to it from many disparate systems. All of them worked with OpenSWAN even back then, mainly because of the wonderful documentation they still have. It has one thing bad about it, it was information dense and tough for the uninitiated to understand. But read through it 5 or 6 times and it should just click. The only time I've had to touch the machine was to add or remove links. I use things that work, not some POS LinkSys POS that is the biggest Pile Of Schtuff I've seen. It hardly works with itself and doesn't do well with even with ASA or other dedicated networking gear. I've had far more success with Linux and OpenSWAN for far longer than some of the pieces you are wanting to use have even existed and don't even work together with each other. Cobbled together? I think not. > Thanks anyway, > > Lee Obviously you forget this is a *LINUX MAILING LIST*, don't start dissing it until you try it bucko... and can prove you even begin to know WTF you are talking about. Since, you've got no clue as to how many system use OpenSWAN around the world... and as Adam put it OpenSWAN it *HARDLY* cobbled together. It has pretty much made IPSEC what it is today, by ironing out the mess/voodoo it used to be. Cheers and all that. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "Man never made any material as resilient as the human spirit." -- Bernard Williams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From awilliam at whitemice.org Sun Aug 4 19:57:43 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:57:43 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] IPSec protected GRE tunnels on Cisco IOS [Was: VPN Help] In-Reply-To: <201308042202.r74M2Q09007818@Mail.omnitec.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> <1375652691.4912.28.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <201308042202.r74M2Q09007818@Mail.omnitec.net> Message-ID: <1375660663.4912.35.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 17:03 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > At 04:44 PM 8/4/2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > >A piece of crap from a vendor being dumped by its parent and with a > >support life-cycle roughly equivalent to how long it took you to walk > >out the door. Put the manual on a thumbdrive and duct-tape it to the > >device [seriously!] - because six months from now you [or the poor sod > >who inherits this thing] will not be able to find anything at all about > >this unit. > OK, .. we ALL know by now how much you hate Linksys and LOVE putting > together a POJ that you have to support, .. how about something maybe > OT and *constructive* like hints on how to configure a > remote-site-to-server VPN? There are lots of good articles and examples; basically you want an IPSec protected tunnel. It is even better if your router platform suppors VRF [Virtual Router Framework]; that is basically virtualization for the router, so the router can be divided - the outside router cannot communicate with the inside router. With VRF you can do - interface Tunnel3601 ip vrf forwarding AAA ip address 192.168.3.5 255.255.255.252 tunnel source Loopback3601 tunnel destination 192.168.2.6 tunnel vrf AAA-WAN tunnel protection ipsec profile AAA-P - where AAA is your internal VRF and AAA-WAN is your external VRF, so the tunnel end-point is internal, but the tunnel traffic itself is explicitly external. From awilliam at whitemice.org Sun Aug 4 19:59:43 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 19:59:43 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <1375656860.4272.45.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> <1375656860.4272.45.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1375660783.4912.37.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 18:54 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: > It has > one thing bad about it, it was information dense and tough for the > uninitiated to understand. But read through it 5 or 6 times and it > should just click. To be fair - it is IPSec! IPSec is a non-trivial protocol and take a bit to get one's head around. If you don't understand associations, etc... then configuring anything IPSec is going to feel like groping in the dark. From awilliam at whitemice.org Sun Aug 4 20:03:29 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 20:03:29 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] OpenSWAN, LINUX, & VRF [Was: VPN Help] In-Reply-To: <1375656860.4272.45.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> <1375656860.4272.45.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1375661009.4912.41.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 18:54 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: > I replaced a CISCO something or other with an 850MHz PIII "Network > Blazer" 1U machine in mid-2007. I had 15 B-to-B VPNs going to it from > many disparate systems. All of them worked with OpenSWAN even back then, > mainly because of the wonderful documentation they still have. It has > one thing bad about it, it was information dense and tough for the > uninitiated to understand. But read through it 5 or 6 times and it > should just click. I haven't looked in awhile; but is there a LINUX / iptables equivalent to VRF [Virtual Router Framework]? Which allows the LINUX kernel to host multiple independent routing tables assigned to grouped/labeled interfaces? A quick scan of the interwebz finds which smells experimental [but at least reasonably current]. Perhaps the kernel has something similar under a different name? VRF makes configuration of tunnels and security zones dramatically simpler. From darrel at darrelclute.net Sun Aug 4 20:27:21 2013 From: darrel at darrelclute.net (Clute, Darrel) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 18:27:21 -0600 Subject: [GRLUG] OpenSWAN, LINUX, & VRF [Was: VPN Help] In-Reply-To: <1375661009.4912.41.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> References: <1375481915.19660.8.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> <51FC406B.10606@zuzax.com> <1375499846.4272.23.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <201308042133.r74LX609016348@Mail.omnitec.net> <1375656860.4272.45.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <1375661009.4912.41.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: Adam, Take a look at kernel namespaces, specifically the network portions. This is being used by Linux containers, OpenStack and OpenShift for example to provide isolation, beyond just networking. On mobile otherwise I'd provide URLs. Sincerely, Darrel Clute On Aug 4, 2013 6:03 PM, "Adam Tauno Williams" wrote: > On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 18:54 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: > > I replaced a CISCO something or other with an 850MHz PIII "Network > > Blazer" 1U machine in mid-2007. I had 15 B-to-B VPNs going to it from > > many disparate systems. All of them worked with OpenSWAN even back then, > > mainly because of the wonderful documentation they still have. It has > > one thing bad about it, it was information dense and tough for the > > uninitiated to understand. But read through it 5 or 6 times and it > > should just click. > > I haven't looked in awhile; but is there a LINUX / iptables equivalent > to VRF [Virtual Router Framework]? Which allows the LINUX kernel to > host multiple independent routing tables assigned to grouped/labeled > interfaces? > > A quick scan of the interwebz finds > which smells experimental [but at least reasonably current]. > > Perhaps the kernel has something similar under a different name? > > VRF makes configuration of tunnels and security zones dramatically > simpler. > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott.tanner at comcast.net Sun Aug 4 22:25:02 2013 From: scott.tanner at comcast.net (scott.tanner at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 02:25:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1126802168.1654926.1375669502266.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Even though you've said otherwise, I'd suggest setting the preshared to something simple for testing purposes and try again. Also verify the settings and timeouts are the same on both devices. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/csbr/rv0xx/administration/guide/rv0xx_AG_78-19576.pdf - page 170. Would need to know more about the network and exact configs to help any further. Good luck! Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "L. V. Lammert" To: "Mailing List for LUG in greater Grand Rapids, MI area." Sent: Sunday, August 4, 2013 4:38:01 PM Subject: Re: [GRLUG] VPN Help On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 scott.tanner at comcast.net wrote: > Was the linksys RVN42 rebranded to RV042? > Don't know about rebranding, but it's definately a Cisco box now - new form factor. > Can you post any screenshots of the VPN config? > Can't save a screenshot for some reason (accessing via TV), but here is the log I captured Friday: Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder Send Main Mode 2nd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder Send Main Mode 2nd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] <<< Responder Received Main Mode 3rd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] <<< Responder Received Main Mode 3rd packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: NAT-Traversal: Result using RFC 3947: no NAT detected Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: NAT-Traversal: Result using RFC 3947: no NAT detected Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder send Main Mode 4th packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: [Tunnel Negotiation Info] >>> Responder send Main Mode 4th packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:25 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: sending encrypted notification PAYLOAD_MALFORMED to 96.35.167.38:500 Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: next payload type of ISAKMP Identification Payload has an unknown value: 227 Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: probable authentication failure (mismatch of preshared secrets?): malformed payload in packet Aug 2 14:24:35 2013 VPN Log (g2gips0) #2085: sending encrypted notification PAYLOAD_MALFORMED to 96.35.167.38:500 The preshared secrets are the same, .. copy & paste, so the malformed paylod is a question. > We inherited some LinkCisco equipment and any advanced configuration > has been a nightmare. > Seems like it should be simple, but what I cannot get straight in my mind is how a user at the remote site (192.168.2.0) would connect to an IP at the main office (192.167.1.149). Seems like there has to be a specific forward setup in the the remote router, but I can't figure that out from the config screens. Thanks!! Lee _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lvl at omnitec.net Sun Aug 4 23:19:45 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 22:19:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help In-Reply-To: <1126802168.1654926.1375669502266.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1126802168.1654926.1375669502266.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 scott.tanner at comcast.net wrote: > Even though you've said otherwise, I'd suggest setting the preshared to something simple for testing purposes and try again. Also verify the settings and timeouts are the same on both devices. > > http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/routers/csbr/rv0xx/administration/guide/rv0xx_AG_78-19576.pdf - page 170. > > Would need to know more about the network and exact configs to help any further. > > > Good luck! > Scott > Hi Scott, I have googled and searched for just such an RVN042 guide, .. never found one. Much appreciated! Lee From awilliam at whitemice.org Mon Aug 5 05:19:44 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 05:19:44 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help [Routing] In-Reply-To: References: <1027028949.1648097.1375645786699.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1375694384.4912.46.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> On Sun, 2013-08-04 at 15:38 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > Seems like it should be simple, but what I cannot get straight in my mind > is how a user at the remote site (192.168.2.0) would connect to an IP at > the main office (192.167.1.149). Seems like there has to be a specific > forward setup in the the remote router, but I can't figure that out from > the config screens. Use a /30 subnet for the tunnel end-points and something convenient like a /24 for each end. The default gateway on both sides will need a route to the other end's sub-net. If you have only two sites you can do this with static routes. But I'd recommend setting up a routing protocol if you don't already have one. Quagga/Zebra is packaged on most LINUX distributions and works very well. RIP is trivial to configure. If you run a ripd on each of your servers then they will all know how to get everywhere on you LAN/WAN, rather than relying on redirects from the default gateway. Just make sure you configure it to use RIP protocol version 2 so that the variably subnetted ranges work, RIP version 1 only understands the old-fashion classed ranges [among other shortcomings]. From lvl at omnitec.net Mon Aug 5 18:39:45 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 17:39:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help [Routing] In-Reply-To: <1375694384.4912.46.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> References: <1027028949.1648097.1375645786699.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1375694384.4912.46.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > Use a /30 subnet for the tunnel end-points and something convenient like > a /24 for each end. The default gateway on both sides will need a route > to the other end's sub-net. If you have only two sites you can do this > with static routes. > I rebuilt the configuration using the Cisco Wizard, and it came right up, .. Working on the static routes next - unfortunately, there is a Windoze 8 server in the main office, and a bunch of different Windoze workstations at the remote site so that would appear to be the simplest option. Thanks for the pointers! Lee From awilliam at whitemice.org Tue Aug 6 05:41:54 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 05:41:54 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] VPN Help [Routing] In-Reply-To: References: <1027028949.1648097.1375645786699.JavaMail.root@sz0161a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1375694384.4912.46.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> Message-ID: <1375782114.5469.2.camel@workstation.wmmi.net> On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 17:39 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > On Mon, 5 Aug 2013, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > > Use a /30 subnet for the tunnel end-points and something convenient like > > a /24 for each end. The default gateway on both sides will need a route > > to the other end's sub-net. If you have only two sites you can do this > > with static routes. > I rebuilt the configuration using the Cisco Wizard, and it came right up, > .. > Working on the static routes next - unfortunately, there is a Windoze 8 > server in the main office, and a bunch of different Windoze workstations > at the remote site so that would appear to be the simplest option. Windows servers support RIP routing out-of-the box. Workstations should just use the default route delivered by the DHCP server, but that can be to any device that knows the correct routes and will process ICMP [generating a redirect]. So the default gateway does not need to be your 'Internet Gateway' [just something that knows the routing table]. From brousch at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 09:15:03 2013 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 09:15:03 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] West MI Commercial Linux Support Message-ID: I've been asked about local companies or consultancies that support Linux, or perform Linux administration, as a part of their repertoire. I cannot think of any, so I'm wondering if any of you can come up with some. -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ From mirmillo at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 10:26:42 2013 From: mirmillo at gmail.com (David Damstra) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 10:26:42 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] West MI Commercial Linux Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can try CU*Answers Network Services (http://netserv.cuanswers.com/). On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Ben Rousch wrote: > I've been asked about local companies or consultancies that support > Linux, or perform Linux administration, as a part of their repertoire. > I cannot think of any, so I'm wondering if any of you can come up with > some. > > -- > Ben Rousch > brousch at gmail.com > http://clusterbleep.net/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devriesbj at gmail.com Tue Aug 6 10:48:32 2013 From: devriesbj at gmail.com (Brad DeVries) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 10:48:32 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] West MI Commercial Linux Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can try RCM Technologies (http://www.rcmt.com). They have a GR office. Question, a lot of Linux admin and support can be done remotely, so do they have to be local? Brad. On Aug 6, 2013 9:15 AM, "Ben Rousch" wrote: > I've been asked about local companies or consultancies that support > Linux, or perform Linux administration, as a part of their repertoire. > I cannot think of any, so I'm wondering if any of you can come up with > some. > > -- > Ben Rousch > brousch at gmail.com > http://clusterbleep.net/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg at gregfolkert.net Tue Aug 6 12:18:45 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2013 12:18:45 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] West MI Commercial Linux Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1375805925.4272.64.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 09:15 -0400, Ben Rousch wrote: > I've been asked about local companies or consultancies that support > Linux, or perform Linux administration, as a part of their repertoire. > I cannot think of any, so I'm wondering if any of you can come up with > some. http://www.agathongroup.com Ummm, since they support some of your things you have going... I'm surprised you forgot about it. They have local people and are usually *VERY VERY* responsive. Are also very very good about doing thing remotely and can easily save bacon. I know this... I rely on them for things I can't do, or work through them so we both figure it out. Agathon Group is full of pure awesome, as far as I am concerned. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "Plans are only good intentions unless they immediately degenerate into hard work." -- Peter Drucker -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From brousch at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 06:16:28 2013 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 06:16:28 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux Job on Dice Message-ID: This Linux job just came through Dice.com. I thought a few of you might be interested. http://www.dice.com/job/result/10204540/AD-8522?rel_code=1102&bb=0&src=49&cmpid=304 -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ From john at wesorick.com Wed Aug 21 09:48:17 2013 From: john at wesorick.com (John Wesorick) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 09:48:17 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Silverlight (and Netflix) on Linux Message-ID: I know there are some people on here with Netflix or are required to use Silverlight for whatever reason. I just thought I'd share this project that just came out called Pipelight. It allows you to use Silverlight on Linux via an interesting mechanism where it creates a plugin for your native browser that runs Silverlight through a special patched WINE. It is by the same dev as Netflix Desktop, but is much more seamless, and works with all Silverlight applications. One of our main vendor's B2B site is built on Silverlight, so we've had to use an RDS connection to a Windows server just to access it, but this seems to be working so we can access it more or less natively. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From topher at codeventure.net Wed Aug 21 10:48:17 2013 From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:48:17 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Silverlight (and Netflix) on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5214D331.9020205@codeventure.net> On 08/21/2013 09:48 AM, John Wesorick wrote: > I know there are some people on here with Netflix or are required to > use Silverlight for whatever reason. I just thought I'd share this > project that just came out called Pipelight > . > It allows you to use Silverlight on Linux via an interesting mechanism > where it creates a plugin for your native browser that runs > Silverlight through a special patched WINE. It is by the same dev as > Netflix Desktop , but is > much more seamless, and works with all Silverlight applications. One > of our main vendor's B2B site is built on Silverlight, so we've had to > use an RDS connection to a Windows server just to access it, but this > seems to be working so we can access it more or less natively. Because Arch Linux is awesome I was able to simply install this with my package manager, and it works great. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From casey at grlug.org Wed Aug 21 14:39:38 2013 From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:39:38 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: BarCampGR is this weekend! In-Reply-To: <52143229.8030505@brondsema.net> References: <52143229.8030505@brondsema.net> Message-ID: Come join in the great conversations and learn something new. We're excited - are you? Have some great talks you're thinking about? Or not sure what talks to expect? Head over to http://www.reddit.com/r/BarCampGR/ to discuss ideas and post your own topics. Our reddit page is a great way to get a feel for BarCamp beforehand, and share during & after barcamp too. Invite your friends, family, anyone that's cool to come to BarCamp - it's never too late to sign up - just head over to http://barcampgr.org/register/ Can you help out extra during barcamp? We're looking for some folks that can commit to helping with setup and cleanup tasks. If you can, please put your name in this form: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao_qm5HsWutldGQxWk95eWpLLXpPc1JxR1NpVVRvUHc#gid=0 We'll do our best to get in touch with you, but a BarCamp can be a bit hectic - we want to count on you to just jump in and git 'r done! Sponsors make BarCamp possible. Thank you! http://barcampgr.org/about/sponsors/ Gold Sponsors: * Calvin College - Computer Science Dept. * Atomic Object * Collective Idea Silver Sponsors: * Cascade Engineering * CQL * Fusionary * Mutually Human Software * OST * Universal Mind Non-profit partners: * GR Makers * GrrCon - 25% off discount code: Friend_of_Casey_25 * Software GR What exactly is happening this weekend? We're meeting at Calvin College, map: http://goo.gl/maps/Mg2HA The schedule is here http://barcampgr.org/about/schedule/ but we (you!) fill in all the talk slots when you show up. Many folks bring a laptop; bring a VGA adapter if you want to present from a Mac. Food, drinks & snacks will be provided throughout the whole event. http://barcampgr.org @barcampgr _______________________________________________ Campers mailing list Campers at lists.barcampgr.org http://lists.barcampgr.org/listinfo.cgi/campers-barcampgr.org -- Casey DuBois 616-808-6942 casey at grlug.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brousch at gmail.com Wed Aug 21 15:42:44 2013 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 15:42:44 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: [ubuntu-us-mi] [olf-announce] Register now for Ohio LinuxFest 2013! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kevin O'Brien Date: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:34 PM Subject: [ubuntu-us-mi] [olf-announce] Register now for Ohio LinuxFest 2013! To: olf-announce at ohiolinux.org Please share this announcement with your groups. Registration is open for Ohio LinuxFest 2013, and our 11th year looks to be the best yet. Keynote speakers include Kirk McKusick (BSD), Robyn Bergeron (Fedora Project Leader), Mark Spencer (creator of Asterisk and CTO of Digium), and of course Jon 'maddog' Hall. Then there are the exciting training opportunities, which include PostgreSQL, SELinux, Puppet, and RT. Of course there will be companies exhibiting, certifications to obtain, and talks from a variety of speakers. You won't want to miss this, so go to https://ohiolinux.org/registration and reserve your place now! Thank you, -- Kevin O'Brien Publicity Director, Ohio LinuxFest news at ohiolinux.org https://ohiolinux.org _______________________________________________ olf-announce mailing list To unsubscribe or modify your subscription: http://eight.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/olf-announce -- ubuntu-us-mi mailing list ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ From ebever at researchintegration.org Sat Aug 24 12:19:41 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:19:41 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? Message-ID: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, and am confused. I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or do the text editors now handle this automatically? Thanks. From topher at codeventure.net Sat Aug 24 12:25:07 2013 From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:25:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? Message-ID: <79nx7sla4x9wio6d8t3q6dgh.1377361507153@email.android.com> That's pretty old school, and you're probably fine not worrying about it. That said, if you want to see the issue, write something in vim or emacs and open it in notepad. Eric Beversluis wrote: >I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about >unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, >and am confused. > >I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between >Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. >Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or >do the text editors now handle this automatically? > >Thanks. > >_______________________________________________ >grlug mailing list >grlug at grlug.org >http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mfarver at mindbent.org Sat Aug 24 12:26:04 2013 From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:26:04 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Dos2unix and unix2dos just change line endings in files. Many ASCII editors handle this automatically so it is less important than it once was. If you are reading a text file in Unix and see ^M on the end of every line running dos2unix will fix it. Mark Mark On Aug 24, 2013 12:20 PM, "Eric Beversluis" wrote: > I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about > unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, > and am confused. > > I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between > Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. > Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or > do the text editors now handle this automatically? > > Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From megadave at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 12:38:22 2013 From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 12:38:22 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Note that if you transfer files using ftp, it (usually) automatically adjusts the EOL convention as appropriate for the systems involved. On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Mark Farver wrote: > Dos2unix and unix2dos just change line endings in files. Many ASCII editors > handle this automatically so it is less important than it once was. > > If you are reading a text file in Unix and see ^M on the end of every line > running dos2unix will fix it. > > Mark > > Mark > > On Aug 24, 2013 12:20 PM, "Eric Beversluis" > wrote: >> >> I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about >> unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, >> and am confused. >> >> I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between >> Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. >> Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or >> do the text editors now handle this automatically? >> >> Thanks. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From lvl at omnitec.net Sat Aug 24 12:47:27 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 11:47:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Aug 2013, megadave wrote: > Note that if you transfer files using ftp, it (usually) automatically > adjusts the EOL convention as appropriate for the systems involved. > *IF* you transfer in text mode (not binary). Lee From greg at gregfolkert.net Sat Aug 24 14:03:01 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:03:01 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? No... FLIP. In-Reply-To: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1377367381.9648.9.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 12:19 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: > I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about > unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, > and am confused. > > I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between > Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. > Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or > do the text editors now handle this automatically? > > Thanks. First off, how old is the Sobell book/reference? He has been writing for years and could be 10+ years old. This might be a moot point anymore since most editors, Windows or Mac or Linux just write it the way the original file was. In any case, I just use "flip" for text files. Flip does the same thing the "unix2dos" and "dos2unix" does. Doing the change to the file, depending on what it sees and changes it to the other one. Which is fixing Carriage Return-Line Feed issues Windows seems intent on using. (aka ^M) And Most things in Linux can and do deal with Windows erroneous ways of doing things. Same thing with OSX. I've not had to deal with this particular thing since about 2004 or 2005. Earlier Windows (Pre-XP) and many tools/editors from those times, on the other hand, many times can't. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "Hug the shore; let others try the deep." -- Virgil -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From leapole at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 14:06:32 2013 From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 11:06:32 -0700 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1E6D84D1-90B8-4D80-B0E8-AE99A4517F9B@gmail.com> I am using dos2unix to help convert stuff from an HTML form to config files in unix On Aug 24, 2013 at 9:47 AM, "L. V. Lammert" wrote: > On Sat, 24 Aug 2013, megadave wrote: > >> Note that if you transfer files using ftp, it (usually) automatically >> adjusts the EOL convention as appropriate for the systems involved. > *IF* you transfer in text mode (not binary). > > Lee > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From awilliam at whitemice.org Sat Aug 24 14:16:35 2013 From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:16:35 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1377368195.4726.1.camel@linux-86wr.site> On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 12:19 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: > I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about > unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, > and am confused. > > I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between > Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. > Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or > do the text editors now handle this automatically? SOME editors handle it correctly. For example - notepad.exe does not, but wordpad.exe will work just fine. There really isn't and problems with the files, it just depends on what you want to do. -- Adam Tauno Williams GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA From don.ellis at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 15:51:57 2013 From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:51:57 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: <1377368195.4726.1.camel@linux-86wr.site> References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377368195.4726.1.camel@linux-86wr.site> Message-ID: Sometimes a text editor handles it just fine, but it can require actually looking at the documentation to find out how. In Vim, for example, the settings for filetype vs. fileformat may not be that obvious. Once you figure it out, it becomes drop dead easy. Some text editors can be scripted to batch process a list of files. Consider Perl to be one such editor; dos2unix etc can be written as a one-liner command line, though some safeguards might be a good idea for some users, as in this easily found (but somewhat verbose) example: http://www.obviously.com/tech_tips/dos2unix.html The active part in this example is: while( ) { s/\r\n$/\n/; # convert CR LF to LF print OUTPUT $_; } Another example is: http://www.wellho.net/resources/ex.php4?item=p210/cv This example is really a one liner with comments detailing why it was written that way. It could as easily be issued on the command line without a saved script, using the -e switch, as in: perl -p -i.bak -e "s/foo/bar/; ... " (Camel 2, Chapter 6, on my favorite page in the whole book) The page on these switches (-p, -i, -e) explains why the first example can be rewritten with the magic input operator (<>), then why it can all be done on a single line. I do kind of like writing the one liner into a script (or alias, or shell function) so it's handy to get to and I don't have to remember the scripting details. Otherwise, using vim or your favorite editor is very handy too. --Don Ellis On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: > > On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 12:19 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about > > unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, > > and am confused. > > > > I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between > > Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. > > Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or > > do the text editors now handle this automatically? > > SOME editors handle it correctly. For example - notepad.exe does not, > but wordpad.exe will work just fine. > > There really isn't and problems with the files, it just depends on what > you want to do. From ebever at researchintegration.org Sat Aug 24 15:53:00 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 15:53:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? No... FLIP. In-Reply-To: <1377367381.9648.9.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377367381.9648.9.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1377373980.1587.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks to all for the feedback. On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 14:03 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: > First off, how old is the Sobell book/reference? He has been writing > for years and could be 10+ years old This is ed 3 (2013)--he probably just didn't both to update this bit. Hopefully more important areas have been updated. "old utilities never die--they just fade away"? From leapole at gmail.com Sat Aug 24 17:24:15 2013 From: leapole at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 14:24:15 -0700 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377368195.4726.1.camel@linux-86wr.site> Message-ID: Hey, I need to do that in ruby so i can dump my unix2dos Good Call Don. Josh On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Don Ellis wrote: > Sometimes a text editor handles it just fine, but it can require > actually looking at the documentation to find out how. In Vim, for > example, the settings for filetype vs. fileformat may not be that > obvious. Once you figure it out, it becomes drop dead easy. > > Some text editors can be scripted to batch process a list of files. > Consider Perl to be one such editor; dos2unix etc can be written as a > one-liner command line, though some safeguards might be a good idea > for some users, as in this easily found (but somewhat verbose) > example: > > http://www.obviously.com/tech_tips/dos2unix.html > > The active part in this example is: > > while( ) { > s/\r\n$/\n/; # convert CR LF to LF > print OUTPUT $_; > } > > Another example is: > > http://www.wellho.net/resources/ex.php4?item=p210/cv > > This example is really a one liner with comments detailing why it was > written that way. It could as easily be issued on the command line > without a saved script, using the -e switch, as in: > > perl -p -i.bak -e "s/foo/bar/; ... " > > (Camel 2, Chapter 6, on my favorite page in the whole book) > The page on these switches (-p, -i, -e) explains why the first example > can be rewritten with the magic input operator (<>), then why it can > all be done on a single line. > > I do kind of like writing the one liner into a script (or alias, or > shell function) so it's handy to get to and I don't have to remember > the scripting details. Otherwise, using vim or your favorite editor is > very handy too. > > --Don Ellis > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Adam Tauno Williams > wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 12:19 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > > I'm reading in Sobell, _Linux Commands..._, where he talks about > > > unix2dos being necessary to send Linux text files to a Windows machine, > > > and am confused. > > > > > > I think that I successfully send text files back and forth between > > > Linux, Windows and Mac all the time without having to use this utility. > > > Is this something that is obsolete in more modern operating systems? Or > > > do the text editors now handle this automatically? > > > > SOME editors handle it correctly. For example - notepad.exe does not, > > but wordpad.exe will work just fine. > > > > There really isn't and problems with the files, it just depends on what > > you want to do. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt at zigg.com Sat Aug 24 19:17:13 2013 From: matt at zigg.com (Matt Behrens) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 19:17:13 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? No... FLIP. In-Reply-To: <1377367381.9648.9.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377367381.9648.9.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <98A2071D-89BC-421D-BC79-C46CD309E2DB@zigg.com> On Aug 24, 2013, at 2:03 PM, Greg Folkert wrote: > And Most things in Linux can and do deal with Windows erroneous ways of > doing things. I'm far from a Windows apologist, but if you fed a text file straight to a line printer without translation... LF (Unix and Unix-like) would give you a stair-stepped printout, e.g. foo bar baz CR (Mac OS through 9) would give you a printout with each new line overprinting the last, leading to a black mess CR+LF was the only one that would properly carriage-return and line-feed conventions. Well, LF+CR would work too, but who does THAT? So I wouldn't exactly call Windows' way "erroneous". ;) But yes, a good tool can deal with whatever you throw at it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4334 bytes Desc: not available URL: From don.ellis at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 15:44:42 2013 From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 14:44:42 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? No... FLIP. In-Reply-To: <98A2071D-89BC-421D-BC79-C46CD309E2DB@zigg.com> References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377367381.9648.9.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <98A2071D-89BC-421D-BC79-C46CD309E2DB@zigg.com> Message-ID: Yes, it would seem that LF+CR and CR+LF would be equivalent, and that's what I thought at first. However, when I tried using LF+CR on an ASR-33 (my first system IO & bulk storage device), I found that the LF was almost instantaneous, while the CR requires some time to execute. Sending the CR first worked as expected, but sending LF first resulted in lines beginning to print on the retrace; the beginning of the line was printed backward diagonally from right to left. Some time later, I worked with a Unix system that required me to write the lp handlers, so I got to experiment with a system where I could bypass the SPOOL system (an acronym - look it up). Easiest way to bypass it, of course, is not to have written it yet. If you send two files at the same time without SPOOL, the characters from each file will be intermixed. Try doing that in DOS! > I'm far from a Windows apologist, but if you fed a text file straight to a line printer without translation... In most cases, transferring a file from one system to another would result in translation (going back to late '80s or earlier). Might be worthwhile to put a filter in the SPOOL system to detect different line endings and handle them, but it would typically be handled upstream somewhere, in order to allow looking at the file in the first place. --Don Ellis On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Matt Behrens wrote: > On Aug 24, 2013, at 2:03 PM, Greg Folkert wrote: > >> And Most things in Linux can and do deal with Windows erroneous ways of >> doing things. > > I'm far from a Windows apologist, but if you fed a text file straight to a line printer without translation... > > LF (Unix and Unix-like) would give you a stair-stepped printout, e.g. > > foo > bar > baz > > CR (Mac OS through 9) would give you a printout with each new line overprinting the last, leading to a black mess > > CR+LF was the only one that would properly carriage-return and line-feed conventions. Well, LF+CR would work too, but who does THAT? > > So I wouldn't exactly call Windows' way "erroneous". ;) > > But yes, a good tool can deal with whatever you throw at it. From don.ellis at gmail.com Mon Aug 26 15:48:03 2013 From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 14:48:03 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] unix2dos? In-Reply-To: References: <1377361181.1587.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377368195.4726.1.camel@linux-86wr.site> Message-ID: Can Ruby do that on the command line? --Don On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Josh wrote: > Hey, I need to do that in ruby so i can dump my unix2dos > > Good Call Don. > > Josh > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Don Ellis wrote: >> >> >> perl -p -i.bak -e "s/foo/bar/; ... " >> >> From ebever at researchintegration.org Fri Aug 30 13:10:20 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 13:10:20 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue Message-ID: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows it having no media. I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right away. Any ideas? Thanks From mikemol at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 13:48:13 2013 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 13:48:13 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers Message-ID: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> I'd been approached or otherwise remarked two a couple times by LUG folks about #grlug having too little a signal-to-noise ratio on LUG topics. It'd become pretty dominated by maker topics. I expect the reason I was on the receiving end of these comments was because the people making them didn't want to be seen as making waves, or because they were otherwise pretty passive on the subject. It turns out there's a #grmakers IRC channel. Most of the maker discussion has been moved over there. All this really means is that the maker topics should probably default to #grmakers, so that #grlug can resume having followable conversations about Linux and general sysadmin stuff. Are there clear boundaries? No. Is the separation brutally enforced? Of course not! (How could there be? Nobody has ops...) Understand that this isn't about any animosity toward the maker folks. GRMakers has grown up and gotten a bit big for #grlug, so it was time for GRMakers to leave the nest. And there's still a huge amount of overlap between the two groups (and there always will be), and the groups will always be on friendly terms. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 553 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From megadave at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 13:48:41 2013 From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 13:48:41 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Does it work on a linux box? (Partial serious question, partial humorous "is this on topic for this list") :P My suspicion would be some issue with the USB ports on the problem machine. On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows > it having no media. > > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right > away. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From jjesse at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 13:57:48 2013 From: jjesse at gmail.com (Jonathan Jesse) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 13:57:48 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers In-Reply-To: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> References: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 i've been a bit lost in the past about the conversation that has been happening in #grlug and am glad there is a separate place to spin out some of this converstaion On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > I'd been approached or otherwise remarked two a couple times by LUG > folks about #grlug having too little a signal-to-noise ratio on LUG > topics. It'd become pretty dominated by maker topics. I expect the > reason I was on the receiving end of these comments was because the > people making them didn't want to be seen as making waves, or because > they were otherwise pretty passive on the subject. > > It turns out there's a #grmakers IRC channel. Most of the maker > discussion has been moved over there. > > All this really means is that the maker topics should probably default > to #grmakers, so that #grlug can resume having followable conversations > about Linux and general sysadmin stuff. Are there clear boundaries? No. > Is the separation brutally enforced? Of course not! (How could there be? > Nobody has ops...) > > Understand that this isn't about any animosity toward the maker folks. > GRMakers has grown up and gotten a bit big for #grlug, so it was time > for GRMakers to leave the nest. And there's still a huge amount of > overlap between the two groups (and there always will be), and the > groups will always be on friendly terms. > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From uhawl1 at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 14:14:24 2013 From: uhawl1 at gmail.com (Joshua Yuhas) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:14:24 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Ooooo... waiting for the "off topic" police to come marching in. On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:48 PM, megadave wrote: > Does it work on a linux box? (Partial serious question, partial > humorous "is this on topic for this list") :P > > My suspicion would be some issue with the USB ports on the problem machine. > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis > wrote: > > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > > > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows > > it having no media. > > > > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right > > away. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebever at researchintegration.org Fri Aug 30 14:51:38 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:51:38 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Yeah--works fine on the linux box as well. On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 13:48 -0400, megadave wrote: > Does it work on a linux box? (Partial serious question, partial > humorous "is this on topic for this list") :P > > My suspicion would be some issue with the USB ports on the problem machine. > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis > wrote: > > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > > > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows > > it having no media. > > > > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right > > away. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From ebever at researchintegration.org Fri Aug 30 15:03:27 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:03:27 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1377889407.22568.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> The thumb drive has been reformatted a number of different times, including for Mac and exFAT at different times (now FAT32--done on Win7, if I remember right). Could some USB ports be more sensitive to the drive having been reformatted a number of tmes than others? Or are there maybe qualitative differences in flash drives and the ports on the HP are more sensitive to a quality problem? On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 14:51 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: > Yeah--works fine on the linux box as well. > > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 13:48 -0400, megadave wrote: > > Does it work on a linux box? (Partial serious question, partial > > humorous "is this on topic for this list") :P > > > > My suspicion would be some issue with the USB ports on the problem machine. > > > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis > > wrote: > > > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > > > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > > > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > > > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > > > > > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows > > > it having no media. > > > > > > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right > > > away. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From megadave at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 15:03:29 2013 From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:03:29 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Is this a USB3 device? Even if it isn't, do any of the machines you are trying it with have USB3? There could be some sort of compatbility issue there. On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > Yeah--works fine on the linux box as well. > > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 13:48 -0400, megadave wrote: >> Does it work on a linux box? (Partial serious question, partial >> humorous "is this on topic for this list") :P >> >> My suspicion would be some issue with the USB ports on the problem machine. >> >> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis >> wrote: >> > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I >> > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book >> > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro >> > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). >> > >> > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows >> > it having no media. >> > >> > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right >> > away. >> > >> > Any ideas? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > grlug mailing list >> > grlug at grlug.org >> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From lvl at omnitec.net Fri Aug 30 15:09:18 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:09:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377889407.22568.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377889407.22568.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <201308301909.r7UJ9Ku2005621@Mail.omnitec.net> At 02:03 PM 8/30/2013, Eric Beversluis wrote: >Could some USB ports be more sensitive to the drive having been >reformatted a number of tmes than others? > I have seen MANY USB ports that do not supply sufficient power for USB drives [platter], .. could the power requirements for such a large thumb drive cause a prorlem? >Or are there maybe qualitative differences in flash drives and the >ports on the HP >are more sensitive to a quality problem? Doubt that, more likely a power problem or a problem with the formatting. Would it not be simpler to just get a different thumb drive? I have a couple of dozen under my monitor, ,.. of varying sizes. Lee From ebever at researchintegration.org Fri Aug 30 15:32:41 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:32:41 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1377891161.22568.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Among the 11 entries under USB controllers on "Device Manager" are --...USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller --...USB 3.0 Root Hub There are 4 USB ports. Two seem to have 'SS' before the USB symbol (3.0?), one seems to have just the USB symbol, and one seems to have the standard usb symbol followed by a lightening bolt ("charging port"?). ('seems' reflecting my weak eyes.) The only documentation, "Setup Instructions", just describes them all as USB ports. There's also something called a combo eSATA/USB port. The drive works on none of them. I'm going to boot Knoppix on the box and see if it works then. Stay tuned... @Lammert: Could be a power thing--if so, a serious design flaw by HP. Yes about different flash drive--but was hoping maybe not to have to copy the files off this one. On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 15:03 -0400, megadave wrote: > Is this a USB3 device? Even if it isn't, do any of the machines you > are trying it with have USB3? > > There could be some sort of compatbility issue there. > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Eric Beversluis > wrote: > > Yeah--works fine on the linux box as well. > > > > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 13:48 -0400, megadave wrote: > >> Does it work on a linux box? (Partial serious question, partial > >> humorous "is this on topic for this list") :P > >> > >> My suspicion would be some issue with the USB ports on the problem machine. > >> > >> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis > >> wrote: > >> > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > >> > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > >> > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > >> > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > >> > > >> > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows > >> > it having no media. > >> > > >> > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right > >> > away. > >> > > >> > Any ideas? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > grlug mailing list > >> > grlug at grlug.org > >> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >> _______________________________________________ > >> grlug mailing list > >> grlug at grlug.org > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From jeff at demaagd.com Fri Aug 30 15:33:05 2013 From: jeff at demaagd.com (Jeff DeMaagd) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:33:05 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> I recall Centon being a somewhat dodgy brand. I don't think it's a house brand, CompUSA also carried it back when they still existed. I'd return it if it's a recent purchase, or set it aside. On 8/30/13 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows > it having no media. > > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right > away. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks -- Jeff DM-Accessories From lvl at omnitec.net Fri Aug 30 15:43:03 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 14:43:03 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377891161.22568.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377891161.22568.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <201308301943.r7UJh5u2001054@Mail.omnitec.net> At 02:32 PM 8/30/2013, Eric Beversluis wrote: >@Lammert: Could be a power thing--if so, a serious design flaw by HP. >Yes about different flash drive--but was hoping maybe not to have to >copy the files off this one. Sage advice: Get thee files OFF the supect drive NOW!!! USB Thumb drives are made so cheaply that NONE should be accepted as good quality. If one formats and accepts files, it is good for the time it takes to get those files to the machine you wish to store them. NO USB drive should ever be used for storage. If you want to store something on portable media, get a USD *disk* [and even those can be suspect at times]. Lee From ebever at researchintegration.org Fri Aug 30 15:43:34 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:43:34 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> Message-ID: <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> The drive in question opens fine under Knoppix on that hp Elitbook 8570p. So does that make it an HP problem or a Windows problem--given that windows 7 on a different box opens it fine. Thanks to all. On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 15:33 -0400, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > > I recall Centon being a somewhat dodgy brand. I don't think it's a house > brand, CompUSA also carried it back when they still existed. I'd return > it if it's a recent purchase, or set it aside. > > > On 8/30/13 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > > > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but shows > > it having no media. > > > > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up right > > away. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > Thanks > > From west.mi420 at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 15:49:26 2013 From: west.mi420 at gmail.com (West Mi) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:49:26 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: sounds like you forgot to safely remove it from the windows box....... On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Eric Beversluis < ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote: > The drive in question opens fine under Knoppix on that hp Elitbook > 8570p. > > So does that make it an HP problem or a Windows problem--given that > windows 7 on a different box opens it fine. > > Thanks to all. > > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 15:33 -0400, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > > > > I recall Centon being a somewhat dodgy brand. I don't think it's a house > > brand, CompUSA also carried it back when they still existed. I'd return > > it if it's a recent purchase, or set it aside. > > > > > > On 8/30/13 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > > I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 > box--I > > > just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > > > 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > > > 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > > > > > When I go into Disk Management on that box it shows a D: drive but > shows > > > it having no media. > > > > > > I've tried several other thumb drives and they all seem to open up > right > > > away. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff at demaagd.com Fri Aug 30 15:51:48 2013 From: jeff at demaagd.com (Jeff DeMaagd) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:51:48 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <5220F7D4.1030407@demaagd.com> It could be an odd interaction. My understanding is Elitebooks are generally very good. Have you ever experienced this problem with any other USB devices on said HP (any OS) when it's fine on other computers? On 8/30/13 3:43 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > The drive in question opens fine under Knoppix on that hp Elitbook > 8570p. > > So does that make it an HP problem or a Windows problem--given that > windows 7 on a different box opens it fine. > > Thanks to all. > > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 15:33 -0400, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: >> >> I recall Centon being a somewhat dodgy brand. I don't think it's a house >> brand, CompUSA also carried it back when they still existed. I'd return >> it if it's a recent purchase, or set it aside. >> >> >> On 8/30/13 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: >>> I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I >>> just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book >>> 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro >>> 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). -- Jeff From ebever at researchintegration.org Fri Aug 30 16:01:38 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 16:01:38 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <5220F7D4.1030407@demaagd.com> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F7D4.1030407@demaagd.com> Message-ID: <1377892898.22568.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> No other such experiences. The box is brand new and belongs to a client. @west.mi420: I couldn't safely remove the drive from Windows because it was never successfully mounted. I'm going to settle for the idea that there's probably a quality problem with the Centon stick--that may or may not have anything to do with the state of its current formatting--and that for some reason Linux or my old Vostro w/Win7 are better at coping with that problem than Win7 on the HP with its fancy set of USB ports. Thanks to all. On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 15:51 -0400, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > It could be an odd interaction. My understanding is Elitebooks are > generally very good. > > Have you ever experienced this problem with any other USB devices on > said HP (any OS) when it's fine on other computers? > > > > On 8/30/13 3:43 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > The drive in question opens fine under Knoppix on that hp Elitbook > > 8570p. > > > > So does that make it an HP problem or a Windows problem--given that > > windows 7 on a different box opens it fine. > > > > Thanks to all. > > > > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 15:33 -0400, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > >> > >> I recall Centon being a somewhat dodgy brand. I don't think it's a house > >> brand, CompUSA also carried it back when they still existed. I'd return > >> it if it's a recent purchase, or set it aside. > >> > >> > >> On 8/30/13 1:10 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote: > >>> I've got a thumb drive formatted FAT32. It works fine on one Win7 box--I > >>> just copied files to it there. When I plug it into a new HP Elite Book > >>> 8570p running Win 7 Professional, it can't read it. It's a DataStickPro > >>> 30GB by Centon (that may be a MicroCenter brand?). > > > From ebever at researchintegration.org Fri Aug 30 16:06:00 2013 From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 16:06:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <201308301943.r7UJh5u2001054@Mail.omnitec.net> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377891161.22568.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <201308301943.r7UJh5u2001054@Mail.omnitec.net> Message-ID: <1377893160.22568.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> * On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 14:43 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: > At 02:32 PM 8/30/2013, Eric Beversluis wrote: > > >@Lammert: Could be a power thing--if so, a serious design flaw by HP. > >Yes about different flash drive--but was hoping maybe not to have to > >copy the files off this one. > > Sage advice: > > Get thee files OFF the supect drive NOW!!! USB Thumb drives are made > so cheaply that NONE should be accepted as good quality. If one > formats and accepts files, it is good for the time it takes to get > those files to the machine you wish to store them. NO USB drive > should ever be used for storage. If you want to store something on > portable media, get a USD *disk* [and even those can be suspect at times]. > > Lee > Yeah--good advice. I actually meant that I didn't want to bother copying to a different drive and then to the HP or some other such round-about method. I take it that your comments about USB drive quality don't apply to solid-state hard drives--the latter use the same technology, don't they? Hopefully the quality-design and quality-control is better in the hard drive application. From lvl at omnitec.net Fri Aug 30 16:16:43 2013 From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:16:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377893160.22568.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377888698.22568.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1377891161.22568.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <201308301943.r7UJh5u2001054@Mail.omnitec.net> <1377893160.22568.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 2013, Eric Beversluis wrote: > I take it that your comments about USB drive quality don't apply to > solid-state hard drives--the latter use the same technology, don't they? > Hopefully the quality-design and quality-control is better in the hard > drive application. > Most SS drives are well into the $100s, so IME that is a different 'quality regime' comparted to a $10 thumb drive. I would be slightly concerned about HD cards, but I never use them for storage more than a few days. Pulling them off your camera, for example, is much better for viewing than leaving hundreds IN your camera! I have heard horror stores many times about a camera getting dropped and the user loosing hundreds of pics; at least most smartphones offer Cloud backup options. Lee From mfarver at mindbent.org Fri Aug 30 16:42:01 2013 From: mfarver at mindbent.org (Mark Farver) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 16:42:01 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: <1377892898.22568.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F7D4.1030407@demaagd.com> <1377892898.22568.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: There are situation where windows will refuse to read USB sticks with improper partition tables. Linux and other windows ignores most issues. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From megadave at gmail.com Fri Aug 30 16:44:00 2013 From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 16:44:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F371.6080405@demaagd.com> <1377891814.22568.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <5220F7D4.1030407@demaagd.com> <1377892898.22568.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I considered a partition table issue, but he said it worked fine on one Win7 box and not on another... On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 4:42 PM, Mark Farver wrote: > There are situation where windows will refuse to read USB sticks with > improper partition tables. Linux and other windows ignores most issues. > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From greg at gregfolkert.net Fri Aug 30 21:46:20 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 21:46:20 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Thumb Drive Issue In-Reply-To: References: <1377882620.22568.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1377913580.9648.31.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 14:14 -0400, Joshua Yuhas wrote: > Ooooo... waiting for the "off topic" police to come marching in. It is. I see you beat the drum before us. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "Either you run the day or the day runs you." -- Jim Rohn -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From greg at gregfolkert.net Fri Aug 30 21:48:25 2013 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 21:48:25 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers In-Reply-To: References: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1377913705.9648.32.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> All I hear is an echo now... On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 13:57 -0400, Jonathan Jesse wrote: > +1 > > > i've been a bit lost in the past about the conversation that has been > happening in #grlug and am glad there is a separate place to spin out > some of this converstaion > > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Michael Mol > wrote: > I'd been approached or otherwise remarked two a couple times > by LUG > folks about #grlug having too little a signal-to-noise ratio > on LUG > topics. It'd become pretty dominated by maker topics. I expect > the > reason I was on the receiving end of these comments was > because the > people making them didn't want to be seen as making waves, or > because > they were otherwise pretty passive on the subject. > > It turns out there's a #grmakers IRC channel. Most of the > maker > discussion has been moved over there. > > All this really means is that the maker topics should probably > default > to #grmakers, so that #grlug can resume having followable > conversations > about Linux and general sysadmin stuff. Are there clear > boundaries? No. > Is the separation brutally enforced? Of course not! (How could > there be? > Nobody has ops...) > > Understand that this isn't about any animosity toward the > maker folks. > GRMakers has grown up and gotten a bit big for #grlug, so it > was time > for GRMakers to leave the nest. And there's still a huge > amount of > overlap between the two groups (and there always will be), and > the > groups will always be on friendly terms. > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C "Either you run the day or the day runs you." -- Jim Rohn -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jeff at demaagd.com Fri Aug 30 22:41:06 2013 From: jeff at demaagd.com (Jeff DeMaagd) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 22:41:06 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers In-Reply-To: <1377913705.9648.32.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> References: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> <1377913705.9648.32.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <85967F39-F633-4C58-AD8E-B5F8AA94C9D4@demaagd.com> I thought it was a bit unilateral. One person insisted on the change without gathering much outside input. -- Jeff DM Accessories LLC http://shop.dm-accessories.com On Aug 30, 2013, at 9:48 PM, Greg Folkert wrote: > All I hear is an echo now... > > On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 13:57 -0400, Jonathan Jesse wrote: >> +1 >> >> >> i've been a bit lost in the past about the conversation that has been >> happening in #grlug and am glad there is a separate place to spin out >> some of this converstaion >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Michael Mol >> wrote: >> I'd been approached or otherwise remarked two a couple times >> by LUG >> folks about #grlug having too little a signal-to-noise ratio >> on LUG >> topics. It'd become pretty dominated by maker topics. I expect >> the >> reason I was on the receiving end of these comments was >> because the >> people making them didn't want to be seen as making waves, or >> because >> they were otherwise pretty passive on the subject. >> >> It turns out there's a #grmakers IRC channel. Most of the >> maker >> discussion has been moved over there. >> >> All this really means is that the maker topics should probably >> default >> to #grmakers, so that #grlug can resume having followable >> conversations >> about Linux and general sysadmin stuff. Are there clear >> boundaries? No. >> Is the separation brutally enforced? Of course not! (How could >> there be? >> Nobody has ops...) >> >> Understand that this isn't about any animosity toward the >> maker folks. >> GRMakers has grown up and gotten a bit big for #grlug, so it >> was time >> for GRMakers to leave the nest. And there's still a huge >> amount of >> overlap between the two groups (and there always will be), and >> the >> groups will always be on friendly terms. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > -- > greg at gregfolkert.net > PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 > Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C > "Either you run the day or the day runs you." > -- Jim Rohn > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From dontwantspam1 at earthlink.net Fri Aug 30 23:12:57 2013 From: dontwantspam1 at earthlink.net (Kyle) Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2013 23:12:57 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers In-Reply-To: <85967F39-F633-4C58-AD8E-B5F8AA94C9D4@demaagd.com> References: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> <1377913705.9648.32.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <85967F39-F633-4C58-AD8E-B5F8AA94C9D4@demaagd.com> Message-ID: <52215F39.1040307@earthlink.net> I have to say I'm now watching both channels considerably more now that they're categorized than I did when it was all dumped into #grlug. I got to the point where I largely stopped following #grlug because it was too hard to figure out which subject the current conversation was if I happened to miss a few hours of it. Just way too many messages on too many concurrent topics to catch up on if I fell behind, largely due to a loss of context unless actively watching it full time. I think it's pretty neat that the group has enough discussion now to (in some peoples' opinions anyway, my own included, at least) merit its own channel. Anyway, my two Meijer horse rides-worth. - Kyle On 08/30/2013 10:41 PM, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > I thought it was a bit unilateral. One person insisted on the change without gathering much outside input. > > -- > Jeff > DM Accessories LLC > http://shop.dm-accessories.com > > On Aug 30, 2013, at 9:48 PM, Greg Folkert wrote: > >> All I hear is an echo now... >> >> On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 13:57 -0400, Jonathan Jesse wrote: >>> +1 >>> >>> >>> i've been a bit lost in the past about the conversation that has been >>> happening in #grlug and am glad there is a separate place to spin out >>> some of this converstaion >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Michael Mol >>> wrote: >>> I'd been approached or otherwise remarked two a couple times >>> by LUG >>> folks about #grlug having too little a signal-to-noise ratio >>> on LUG >>> topics. It'd become pretty dominated by maker topics. I expect >>> the >>> reason I was on the receiving end of these comments was >>> because the >>> people making them didn't want to be seen as making waves, or >>> because >>> they were otherwise pretty passive on the subject. >>> >>> It turns out there's a #grmakers IRC channel. Most of the >>> maker >>> discussion has been moved over there. >>> >>> All this really means is that the maker topics should probably >>> default >>> to #grmakers, so that #grlug can resume having followable >>> conversations >>> about Linux and general sysadmin stuff. Are there clear >>> boundaries? No. >>> Is the separation brutally enforced? Of course not! (How could >>> there be? >>> Nobody has ops...) >>> >>> Understand that this isn't about any animosity toward the >>> maker folks. >>> GRMakers has grown up and gotten a bit big for #grlug, so it >>> was time >>> for GRMakers to leave the nest. And there's still a huge >>> amount of >>> overlap between the two groups (and there always will be), and >>> the >>> groups will always be on friendly terms. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> -- >> greg at gregfolkert.net >> PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 >> Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C >> "Either you run the day or the day runs you." >> -- Jim Rohn >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From jeff at demaagd.com Sat Aug 31 09:17:07 2013 From: jeff at demaagd.com (Jeff DeMaagd) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:17:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers In-Reply-To: <52215F39.1040307@earthlink.net> References: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> <1377913705.9648.32.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <85967F39-F633-4C58-AD8E-B5F8AA94C9D4@demaagd.com> <52215F39.1040307@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5221ECD3.90909@demaagd.com> I should be clear in saying I think the change is for the better, but how it was handled left a bad taste in my mouth. It was basically announced and my impression, insisted upon, based limited feedback from maybe two unnamed individuals, didn't put it out as a suggestion for group discussion. On 8/30/13 11:12 PM, Kyle wrote: > I have to say I'm now watching both channels considerably more now that > they're categorized than I did when it was all dumped into #grlug. I > got to the point where I largely stopped following #grlug because it was > too hard to figure out which subject the current conversation was if I > happened to miss a few hours of it. Just way too many messages on too > many concurrent topics to catch up on if I fell behind, largely due to a > loss of context unless actively watching it full time. I think it's > pretty neat that the group has enough discussion now to (in some > peoples' opinions anyway, my own included, at least) merit its own channel. > > Anyway, my two Meijer horse rides-worth. > > - Kyle > > > > On 08/30/2013 10:41 PM, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: >> I thought it was a bit unilateral. One person insisted on the change without gathering much outside input. >> >> -- >> Jeff >> DM Accessories LLC >> http://shop.dm-accessories.com -- Jeff DM-Accessories From brousch at gmail.com Sat Aug 31 09:31:50 2013 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:31:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers In-Reply-To: <5221ECD3.90909@demaagd.com> References: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> <1377913705.9648.32.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <85967F39-F633-4C58-AD8E-B5F8AA94C9D4@demaagd.com> <52215F39.1040307@earthlink.net> <5221ECD3.90909@demaagd.com> Message-ID: Usage of #grmakers instead of #grlug is voluntary. You can still talk about GRMakers in the GRLUG channel, or indeed any channel you want. It just makes sense to have a dedicated place now. I have no problem with it, and I'm not sure why others do. Just add both channels to your IRC client and jump into conversations in both of them. Let's move on to more important topics, like how the heck can we assemble all of those GrrCON badges in time? On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: > > > I should be clear in saying I think the change is for the better, but how it > was handled left a bad taste in my mouth. > > It was basically announced and my impression, insisted upon, based limited > feedback from maybe two unnamed individuals, didn't put it out as a > suggestion for group discussion. > > > > > On 8/30/13 11:12 PM, Kyle wrote: >> >> I have to say I'm now watching both channels considerably more now that >> they're categorized than I did when it was all dumped into #grlug. I >> got to the point where I largely stopped following #grlug because it was >> too hard to figure out which subject the current conversation was if I >> happened to miss a few hours of it. Just way too many messages on too >> many concurrent topics to catch up on if I fell behind, largely due to a >> loss of context unless actively watching it full time. I think it's >> pretty neat that the group has enough discussion now to (in some >> peoples' opinions anyway, my own included, at least) merit its own >> channel. >> >> Anyway, my two Meijer horse rides-worth. >> >> - Kyle >> >> >> >> On 08/30/2013 10:41 PM, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: >>> >>> I thought it was a bit unilateral. One person insisted on the change >>> without gathering much outside input. >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff >>> DM Accessories LLC >>> http://shop.dm-accessories.com > > > > > -- > Jeff > DM-Accessories > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -- Ben Rousch brousch at gmail.com http://clusterbleep.net/ From grlugcasey at gmail.com Sat Aug 31 11:25:37 2013 From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 11:25:37 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] #grlug, #grmakers In-Reply-To: References: <5220DADD.7000401@gmail.com> <1377913705.9648.32.camel@omg.gregfolkert.net> <85967F39-F633-4C58-AD8E-B5F8AA94C9D4@demaagd.com> <52215F39.1040307@earthlink.net> <5221ECD3.90909@demaagd.com> Message-ID: <15FB40EE-B7B2-4351-8243-AF42435237C0@gmail.com> Gonna need lots of redbull and coffee to get them made. Regards, Casey DuBois 616-808-6942 On Aug 31, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Ben Rousch wrote: > Usage of #grmakers instead of #grlug is voluntary. You can still talk > about GRMakers in the GRLUG channel, or indeed any channel you want. > It just makes sense to have a dedicated place now. I have no problem > with it, and I'm not sure why others do. Just add both channels to > your IRC client and jump into conversations in both of them. Let's > move on to more important topics, like how the heck can we assemble > all of those GrrCON badges in time? > > On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: >> >> >> I should be clear in saying I think the change is for the better, but how it >> was handled left a bad taste in my mouth. >> >> It was basically announced and my impression, insisted upon, based limited >> feedback from maybe two unnamed individuals, didn't put it out as a >> suggestion for group discussion. >> >> >> >> >> On 8/30/13 11:12 PM, Kyle wrote: >>> >>> I have to say I'm now watching both channels considerably more now that >>> they're categorized than I did when it was all dumped into #grlug. I >>> got to the point where I largely stopped following #grlug because it was >>> too hard to figure out which subject the current conversation was if I >>> happened to miss a few hours of it. Just way too many messages on too >>> many concurrent topics to catch up on if I fell behind, largely due to a >>> loss of context unless actively watching it full time. I think it's >>> pretty neat that the group has enough discussion now to (in some >>> peoples' opinions anyway, my own included, at least) merit its own >>> channel. >>> >>> Anyway, my two Meijer horse rides-worth. >>> >>> - Kyle >>> >>> >>> >>> On 08/30/2013 10:41 PM, Jeff DeMaagd wrote: >>>> >>>> I thought it was a bit unilateral. One person insisted on the change >>>> without gathering much outside input. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jeff >>>> DM Accessories LLC >>>> http://shop.dm-accessories.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff >> DM-Accessories >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > -- > Ben Rousch > brousch at gmail.com > http://clusterbleep.net/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug