From lvl at omnitec.net  Wed Sep  5 11:17:48 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:17:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>

Never tried to print to a network printer / printqueue before, .. how
would one do that from an OpenSuSE 11.4 workstation? Yast only works
with local printers, .. hp-setup only seems to work directly to the
printer/JetDirect? How would one use the print queue on the machine to
which the printer(s) are connected?

	Lee

From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 09:40:44 2012
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 09:40:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Reminder: GRLUG Social Tonight
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB3VP9yBuN3YoOXGMcXqW5Gx8OumAr7G1gKSFhdkkPazvw@mail.gmail.com>

The GRLUG Social will once again be held at Tim Horton's in Wyoming.
Stop in to munch on some ice cream, a float, or pastries as we gab
about whatever people want to gab about. Last week we had 6-8 people
and the topics ranged from Makefiles to Makerspaces.

When: Tonight, Wednesday, 5 September 2012, 8PM - 10PM
Where: Tim Hortons, 1558 28th St SW, Wyoming, MI
More Info and Map: http://wp.grlug.org/events-2/grlug-social-55/

-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/

From topher at codeventure.net  Wed Sep  5 21:09:43 2012
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:09:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <16942729-B494-4D22-B8BB-AEBDE788FB28@codeventure.net>

I've always had *really* good luck with the CUPS web interface.  It does great auto detection.

On Sep 5, 2012, at 11:17 AM, "L. V. Lammert" <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:

> Never tried to print to a network printer / printqueue before, .. how
> would one do that from an OpenSuSE 11.4 workstation? Yast only works
> with local printers, .. hp-setup only seems to work directly to the
> printer/JetDirect? How would one use the print queue on the machine to
> which the printer(s) are connected?
> 
>    Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Wed Sep  5 21:13:05 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 21:13:05 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Wed, 2012-09-05 at 10:17 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: 
> Never tried to print to a network printer / printqueue before, .. how
> would one do that from an OpenSuSE 11.4 workstation? Yast only works
> with local printers, .. hp-setup only seems to work directly to the
> printer/JetDirect? How would one use the print queue on the machine to
> which the printer(s) are connected?

I'd just use the CUPS WebUI [http://{yourhost}:631],  just add the
printer as an app-socket / 9100 device.   Most likely, unless your
JetDirect is very old or has some features disabled, CUPS will present
the printer as one to add automatically [it already knows the printer is
there and just needs the admin to configure it].
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Thu Sep  6 12:16:03 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:16:03 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
Message-ID: <201209061616.q86GG5oQ019856@Mail.omnitec.net>

At 08:13 PM 9/5/2012, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

>I'd just use the CUPS WebUI [http://{yourhost}:631],  just add the
>printer as an app-socket / 9100 device.   Most likely, unless your
>JetDirect is very old or has some features disabled, CUPS will present
>the printer as one to add automatically [it already knows the printer is
>there and just needs the admin to configure it].

Thanks for the reply, but that's the problem - the printer is already 
attached to a server queue [CUPS on a central machine], and I would 
prefer to NOT setup multiple machines pointing at the same physical 
printer [which bypasses the entire concept of a queue, does it not?].

I always thought CUPS was the 'server queue manager', .. so my 
question is how would a workstation 'subscribe' to the server queue, 
instead of creating another queue?

         TFTR!

         Lee



From megadave at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 12:50:37 2012
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 12:50:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <201209061616.q86GG5oQ019856@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <201209061616.q86GG5oQ019856@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAFP7kes7N0+ZjJc0GE1b42j9Vk6KLRBuqiia7KhwdKuLNaN0wQ@mail.gmail.com>

You need CUPS on the client machines too

Lets say "server" is the nme of the box the printer is physiclly connected to.

Go to http://server:631/ and go into each printer and make sure under
"administration", that "share printers connected to this system" is
checked. save/apply/etc.

Then on each client machine, go to http://localhost:631/ ...
administration 'add new printer'.. or "find new printers".. it should
be mostly self explanatory from there.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 12:16 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> At 08:13 PM 9/5/2012, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
>
>> I'd just use the CUPS WebUI [http://{yourhost}:631],  just add the
>> printer as an app-socket / 9100 device.   Most likely, unless your
>> JetDirect is very old or has some features disabled, CUPS will present
>> the printer as one to add automatically [it already knows the printer is
>> there and just needs the admin to configure it].
>
>
> Thanks for the reply, but that's the problem - the printer is already
> attached to a server queue [CUPS on a central machine], and I would prefer
> to NOT setup multiple machines pointing at the same physical printer [which
> bypasses the entire concept of a queue, does it not?].
>
> I always thought CUPS was the 'server queue manager', .. so my question is
> how would a workstation 'subscribe' to the server queue, instead of creating
> another queue?
>
>         TFTR!
>
>
>         Lee
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From lvl at omnitec.net  Thu Sep  6 14:13:17 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:13:17 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7kes7N0+ZjJc0GE1b42j9Vk6KLRBuqiia7KhwdKuLNaN0wQ@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <201209061616.q86GG5oQ019856@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7kes7N0+ZjJc0GE1b42j9Vk6KLRBuqiia7KhwdKuLNaN0wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201209061813.q86IDIoQ031293@Mail.omnitec.net>

At 11:50 AM 9/6/2012, megadave wrote:
>You need CUPS on the client machines too

Thanks - I did not realize that, but it makes sense, I'll give it a try.

         Lee 


From lvl at omnitec.net  Thu Sep  6 15:19:36 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:19:36 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7kes7N0+ZjJc0GE1b42j9Vk6KLRBuqiia7KhwdKuLNaN0wQ@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <201209061616.q86GG5oQ019856@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7kes7N0+ZjJc0GE1b42j9Vk6KLRBuqiia7KhwdKuLNaN0wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201209061919.q86JJdoQ025848@Mail.omnitec.net>

At 11:50 AM 9/6/2012, megadave wrote:
>You need CUPS on the client machines too

Actually, the solution was much simpler - CUPS was not running! Must 
have died when I was playing with a Zebra printer about a month ago 
(I never reboot this workstation, just hibernate). Restarted the cups 
service, fine; ckconfig, on; localhost:631 now has all the printers 
from the server I had configured a few years ago. Tried to print a 
document, viola'!

Thanks for the cluestick - much more fun than getting a headache!

         Lee 


From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep  6 15:29:57 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:29:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <201209061919.q86JJdoQ025848@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <201209061616.q86GG5oQ019856@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7kes7N0+ZjJc0GE1b42j9Vk6KLRBuqiia7KhwdKuLNaN0wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209061919.q86JJdoQ025848@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiCHSP4WRATyKvyo3NpdDTuKi8n7oogcUobWPMxFYgF+Uw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 3:19 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> At 11:50 AM 9/6/2012, megadave wrote:
>>
>> You need CUPS on the client machines too
>
>
> Actually, the solution was much simpler - CUPS was not running! Must have
> died when I was playing with a Zebra printer about a month ago (I never
> reboot this workstation, just hibernate). Restarted the cups service, fine;
> ckconfig, on; localhost:631 now has all the printers from the server I had
> configured a few years ago. Tried to print a document, viola'!
>
> Thanks for the cluestick - much more fun than getting a headache!

"Have you tried turning it off and back on again?"

^^
-- 
:wq

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Fri Sep  7 05:51:21 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 05:51:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Noobie printer question, ..
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiCHSP4WRATyKvyo3NpdDTuKi8n7oogcUobWPMxFYgF+Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209051013590.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <1346893985.3116.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <201209061616.q86GG5oQ019856@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CAFP7kes7N0+ZjJc0GE1b42j9Vk6KLRBuqiia7KhwdKuLNaN0wQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209061919.q86JJdoQ025848@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CA+czFiCHSP4WRATyKvyo3NpdDTuKi8n7oogcUobWPMxFYgF+Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1347011481.3234.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Thu, 2012-09-06 at 15:29 -0400, Michael Mol wrote: 
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 3:19 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> > At 11:50 AM 9/6/2012, megadave wrote:
> > Thanks for the cluestick - much more fun than getting a headache!
> "Have you tried turning it off and back on again?"

While you have it turned off also double check that it is plugged in;
admittedly that is very hard to do with wireless devices - you need to
look very closely.

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From bob.kline at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 11:43:47 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 11:43:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
Message-ID: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/09/google-fiber-will-hit-89-of-neighborhoods-some-poor-areas-miss-out/

**
Google announced
yesterday<http://googlefiberblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/congratulations-kansas-city.html>
that
it has closed preregistration, with 180 out of the 202 fiberhoods meeting
their goals. People living in one of these neighborhoods can sign
up<http://fiber.google.com/how/> starting
September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet, and
for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus TV. There's
even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps up. The free tier
requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12 monthly payments of $25,
but Google guarantees the free service for seven years.
**

About the same price the rest of
us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.

I wonder where Google with go with
this next?  i.e., if that $70 represents
a true service price, I'd think the door
would be open to many other cities,
on the way to creating Google Net.

Even that "free" service works out to
about $45 a year, or less if Google
extends it.

  -- Bob
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Sep 10 13:39:19 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:39:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>

On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
> September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet, and
> for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus TV.
> There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps up. The
> free tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12 monthly
> payments of $25, but Google guarantees the free service for seven years.
> **
> 
> About the same price the rest of
> us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
> 
> I wonder where Google with go with
> this next??  i.e., if that $70 represents
> a true service price, I'd think the door
> would be open to many other cities,
> on the way to creating Google Net.
> 
> Even that "free" service works out to
> about $45 a year, or less if Google
> extends it.

Google's primary business is selling ads.  To sell ads more effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.  Would you really want them being able to see *all* of you data traffic?  This is a real conflict of interest (if you believe in the principles of net-neutrality).
-- 
john-thomas
Sent from my Nokia N900

From topher at codeventure.net  Mon Sep 10 13:40:59 2012
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:40:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
Message-ID: <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>

On 09/10/2012 01:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>> September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet, and
>> for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus TV.
>> There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps up. The
>> free tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12 monthly
>> payments of $25, but Google guarantees the free service for seven years.
>> **
>>
>> About the same price the rest of
>> us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
>>
>> I wonder where Google with go with
>> this next?   i.e., if that $70 represents
>> a true service price, I'd think the door
>> would be open to many other cities,
>> on the way to creating Google Net.
>>
>> Even that "free" service works out to
>> about $45 a year, or less if Google
>> extends it.
> Google's primary business is selling ads.  To sell ads more effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.  Would you really want them being able to see *all* of you data traffic?  This is a real conflict of interest (if you believe in the principles of net-neutrality).

Isn't this what Comcast and everyone else do already?  is it worse?

From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Sep 10 14:07:12 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:07:12 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>  <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>

On Mon Sep 10 2012 01:40:59 PM EDT, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:

> On 09/10/2012 01:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > > September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet,
> > > and for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus
> > > TV. There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps
> > > up. The free tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12
> > > monthly payments of $25, but Google guarantees the free service for
> > > seven years. **
> > > 
> > > About the same price the rest of
> > > us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
> > > 
> > > I wonder where Google with go with
> > > this next?? ?  i.e., if that $70 represents
> > > a true service price, I'd think the door
> > > would be open to many other cities,
> > > on the way to creating Google Net.
> > > 
> > > Even that "free" service works out to
> > > about $45 a year, or less if Google
> > > extends it.
> > Google's primary business is selling ads.?  To sell ads more
> > effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.?  Would you
> > really want them being able to see *all* of you data traffic??  This is
> > a real conflict of interest (if you believe in the principles of
> > net-neutrality).
> 
> Isn't this what Comcast and everyone else do already??  is it worse?

Comcast's primary business is not selling advertising.  Therein lies a huge difference.
-- 
john-thomas
Sent from my Nokia N900

From topher at codeventure.net  Mon Sep 10 14:08:17 2012
From: topher at codeventure.net (Topher)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:08:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900> <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
Message-ID: <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>

On 09/10/2012 02:07 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> On Mon Sep 10 2012 01:40:59 PM EDT, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:
>
>> On 09/10/2012 01:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
>>> On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>> September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet,
>>>> and for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus
>>>> TV. There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps
>>>> up. The free tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12
>>>> monthly payments of $25, but Google guarantees the free service for
>>>> seven years. **
>>>>
>>>> About the same price the rest of
>>>> us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder where Google with go with
>>>> this next?     i.e., if that $70 represents
>>>> a true service price, I'd think the door
>>>> would be open to many other cities,
>>>> on the way to creating Google Net.
>>>>
>>>> Even that "free" service works out to
>>>> about $45 a year, or less if Google
>>>> extends it.
>>> Google's primary business is selling ads.   To sell ads more
>>> effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.   Would you
>>> really want them being able to see *all* of you data traffic?   This is
>>> a real conflict of interest (if you believe in the principles of
>>> net-neutrality).
>> Isn't this what Comcast and everyone else do already?   is it worse?
> Comcast's primary business is not selling advertising.  Therein lies a huge difference.

How sure are you of that?

From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Sep 10 14:33:20 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:33:20 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>  <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>  <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <1347302000.1796.2.camel@Nokia-N900>

On Mon Sep 10 2012 02:08:17 PM EDT, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:

> On 09/10/2012 02:07 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > On Mon Sep 10 2012 01:40:59 PM EDT, Topher <topher at codeventure.net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > On 09/10/2012 01:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > > > On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > [snip]
> > > > > September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit
> > > > > Internet, and for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet
> > > > > service plus TV. There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps
> > > > > down and 1Mbps up. The free tier requires a one-time
> > > > > construction fee of $300 or 12 monthly payments of $25, but
> > > > > Google guarantees the free service for seven years. **
> > > > > 
> > > > > About the same price the rest of
> > > > > us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wonder where Google with go with
> > > > > this next?? ? ? ?  i.e., if that $70 represents
> > > > > a true service price, I'd think the door
> > > > > would be open to many other cities,
> > > > > on the way to creating Google Net.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Even that "free" service works out to
> > > > > about $45 a year, or less if Google
> > > > > extends it.
> > > > Google's primary business is selling ads.? ?  To sell ads more
> > > > effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.?  
> > > > Would you really want them being able to see *all* of you data
> > > > traffic?? ?  This is a real conflict of interest (if you believe in
> > > > the principles of net-neutrality).
> > > Isn't this what Comcast and everyone else do already?? ?  is it worse?
> > Comcast's primary business is not selling advertising.?  Therein lies a
> > huge difference.
> 
> How sure are you of that?

I haven't checked their latest SEC filing but I'm fairly certain their primary sources of revenue are internet and television.  
-- 
john-thomas
Sent from my Nokia N900

From richardnienhuis at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 14:36:10 2012
From: richardnienhuis at gmail.com (Richard Nienhuis)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:36:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
Message-ID: <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty sure Comcast will sell whatever they think they can make a
profit on.  I'm a more willing to believe that google will have a decent
system to anonymize the data they collect.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:

> On 09/10/2012 02:07 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > On Mon Sep 10 2012 01:40:59 PM EDT, Topher <topher at codeventure.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 09/10/2012 01:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> >>> On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>> September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet,
> >>>> and for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus
> >>>> TV. There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps
> >>>> up. The free tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12
> >>>> monthly payments of $25, but Google guarantees the free service for
> >>>> seven years. **
> >>>>
> >>>> About the same price the rest of
> >>>> us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder where Google with go with
> >>>> this next?     i.e., if that $70 represents
> >>>> a true service price, I'd think the door
> >>>> would be open to many other cities,
> >>>> on the way to creating Google Net.
> >>>>
> >>>> Even that "free" service works out to
> >>>> about $45 a year, or less if Google
> >>>> extends it.
> >>> Google's primary business is selling ads.   To sell ads more
> >>> effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.   Would you
> >>> really want them being able to see *all* of you data traffic?   This is
> >>> a real conflict of interest (if you believe in the principles of
> >>> net-neutrality).
> >> Isn't this what Comcast and everyone else do already?   is it worse?
> > Comcast's primary business is not selling advertising.  Therein lies a
> huge difference.
>
> How sure are you of that?
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Sep 10 14:44:46 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:44:46 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net>

At 01:36 PM 9/10/2012, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
>I'm pretty sure Comcast will sell whatever they think they can make 
>a profit on.  I'm a more willing to believe that google will have a 
>decent system to anonymize the data they collect.

Well, .. there some simple ways to reduce the level Google can snoop:

         * FF/NoScript (block all Google JS - *ESPECIALLY* google-analytics)
         * Use FF Private Browsing Mode by default
         * Use ssh/ssl for as many connections as possible
         * Be *SURE* Google JS and cookies are turned off when using 
Google search engines

Otherwise, Google owns your browsing history.

         Lee 


From roger.roelofs at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 14:46:08 2012
From: roger.roelofs at gmail.com (Roger Roelofs)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:46:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAqrsitEEyqQF9B=pfdRO4nC=xuNBTyps-w+w1sYQQAYE-z5uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Or we can be cynical and assume that everyone is collecting and
potentially selling our data.  Knowing how cheap storage is I have to
guess that data is rarely thrown away on purpose.  I confess that I'm
more circumspect online than I am in the real world.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:36 PM, Richard Nienhuis
<richardnienhuis at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure Comcast will sell whatever they think they can make a profit
> on.  I'm a more willing to believe that google will have a decent system to
> anonymize the data they collect.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/10/2012 02:07 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
>> > On Mon Sep 10 2012 01:40:59 PM EDT, Topher <topher at codeventure.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 09/10/2012 01:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
>> >>> On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> [snip]
>> >>>> September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet,
>> >>>> and for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus
>> >>>> TV. There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps
>> >>>> up. The free tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12
>> >>>> monthly payments of $25, but Google guarantees the free service for
>> >>>> seven years. **
>> >>>>
>> >>>> About the same price the rest of
>> >>>> us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I wonder where Google with go with
>> >>>> this next?     i.e., if that $70 represents
>> >>>> a true service price, I'd think the door
>> >>>> would be open to many other cities,
>> >>>> on the way to creating Google Net.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Even that "free" service works out to
>> >>>> about $45 a year, or less if Google
>> >>>> extends it.
>> >>> Google's primary business is selling ads.   To sell ads more
>> >>> effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.   Would
>> >>> you
>> >>> really want them being able to see *all* of you data traffic?   This
>> >>> is
>> >>> a real conflict of interest (if you believe in the principles of
>> >>> net-neutrality).
>> >> Isn't this what Comcast and everyone else do already?   is it worse?
>> > Comcast's primary business is not selling advertising.  Therein lies a
>> > huge difference.
>>
>> How sure are you of that?
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
Roger

Roger Roelofs
Know what you value.

From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Sep 10 14:50:16 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:50:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120910185016.GB15722@mint>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 02:36:10PM -0400, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Topher <topher at codeventure.net> wrote:
> > On 09/10/2012 02:07 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
[snip]
> > >>> Google's primary business is selling ads.   To sell ads more
> > >>> effectively they try to know as much about you as possible.   Would you
> > >>> really want them being able to see *all* of you data traffic?   This is
> > >>> a real conflict of interest (if you believe in the principles of
> > >>> net-neutrality).
> > >> Isn't this what Comcast and everyone else do already?   is it worse?
> > > Comcast's primary business is not selling advertising.  Therein lies a
> > huge difference.
> >
> > How sure are you of that?
> > 
> I'm pretty sure Comcast will sell whatever they think they can make a
> profit on.  I'm a more willing to believe that google will have a decent
> system to anonymize the data they collect.

But that is counter to their primary revenue stream.  Google makes money
by targeting *you* with ads, thus creating a bubble around you and your
history / preferences for browsing (thus the reason for duckduckgo.com).

Comcast's primary revenue source is not advertising.  My original point
is that the principles of net neutrality require an internet service
provider to not track what I'm doing with the data service I pay for.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Intellectuals solve problems: geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel laureate (1879-1955)

From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Sep 10 14:52:02 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:52:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 01:44:46PM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> At 01:36 PM 9/10/2012, Richard Nienhuis wrote:
> >I'm pretty sure Comcast will sell whatever they think they can
> >make a profit on.  I'm a more willing to believe that google will
> >have a decent system to anonymize the data they collect.
> 
> Well, .. there some simple ways to reduce the level Google can snoop:
> 
>         * FF/NoScript (block all Google JS - *ESPECIALLY* google-analytics)
>         * Use FF Private Browsing Mode by default
>         * Use ssh/ssl for as many connections as possible
>         * Be *SURE* Google JS and cookies are turned off when using
> Google search engines
> 
> Otherwise, Google owns your browsing history.

If Google controls the pipe most of the above become moot.
-- 
john-thomas
------
If all our misfortunes were laid in one common heap whence everyone must
take an equal portion, most people would be contented to take their own
and depart.
Socrates (469?-399 B.C.)

From jjesse at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 14:52:09 2012
From: jjesse at gmail.com (Jonathan Jesse)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:52:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEmRL8WMVrPE9DRE6L7F86-GWwRDwW5HaeJbz+GEbHQSOFy_6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/09/google-fiber-will-hit-89-of-neighborhoods-some-poor-areas-miss-out/
>
> **
> Google announced yesterday<http://googlefiberblog.blogspot.com/2012/09/congratulations-kansas-city.html> that
> it has closed preregistration, with 180 out of the 202 fiberhoods meeting
> their goals. People living in one of these neighborhoods can sign up<http://fiber.google.com/how/> starting
> September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet, and
> for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus TV.
> There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps up. The free
> tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12 monthly payments of
> $25, but Google guarantees the free service for seven years.
> **
>
> About the same price the rest of
> us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
>
> I wonder where Google with go with
> this next?  i.e., if that $70 represents
> a true service price, I'd think the door
> would be open to many other cities,
> on the way to creating Google Net.
>
> Even that "free" service works out to
> about $45 a year, or less if Google
> extends it.
>
>   -- Bob
>
>

Here's the problem w/ going w/ Google for my TV. What relationships do they
have with the other vendors?  Can I get HBO?  Can I get all the channels I
want?  Or more important my wife wants?  Does Netflix, Amazon Streaming,
Hulu+ work w/ all the GOogle Fiber conenction?  Are there other channel
restrictions?

I don't know how many sports fans there on this list but can I get the
following:  Fox Sports Detroit (Detroit Tigers), Big Ten Network (College
Football, other sports), ESPN (ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN3, etc), could I have
streamed the Olympics with my Google TV account?   If not I can't switch my
service provider.  And before you try and argue that NFL.com and MLB.tv
provide streaming services, look at the terms of the agreement/service and
limitations.

It's all good that Google exists as a provider but if I can't get the
channels I want, who cares if I have the fastest internet connection ever,
until we unbundle sports, HBO, and other networks it won't matter for most.
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Sep 10 15:01:25 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:01:25 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>
Message-ID: <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net>

At 01:52 PM 9/10/2012, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> > Otherwise, Google owns your browsing history.
>
>If Google controls the pipe most of the above become moot.

Sorry, that is not entiresly valid. There could be *hundreds* of 
systems behind a single public IP, so just controlling the public 
traffic does little to differentiate individual users.

         Lee 


From lvl at omnitec.net  Mon Sep 10 15:03:31 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:03:31 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAEmRL8WMVrPE9DRE6L7F86-GWwRDwW5HaeJbz+GEbHQSOFy_6A@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8WMVrPE9DRE6L7F86-GWwRDwW5HaeJbz+GEbHQSOFy_6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201209101903.q8AJ3UoQ000333@Mail.omnitec.net>

At 01:52 PM 9/10/2012, Jonathan Jesse wrote:

>Here's the problem w/ going w/ Google for my TV. What relationships 
>do they have with the other vendors?  Can I get HBO?  Can I get all 
>the channels I want?  Or more important my wife wants?  Does 
>Netflix, Amazon Streaming, Hulu+ work w/ all the GOogle Fiber 
>conenction?  Are there other channel restrictions?

Ahh, .. does Google Internet include content?? Now *that* would be interesting!

         Lee 


From jjesse at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 15:06:42 2012
From: jjesse at gmail.com (Jonathan Jesse)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:06:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <201209101903.q8AJ3UoQ000333@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8WMVrPE9DRE6L7F86-GWwRDwW5HaeJbz+GEbHQSOFy_6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101903.q8AJ3UoQ000333@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CAEmRL8Wdev5wWUTiEmzhh97uJyCh0VEYoY89eMCA7MwFcN+p7g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:03 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:

> At 01:52 PM 9/10/2012, Jonathan Jesse wrote:
>
>  Here's the problem w/ going w/ Google for my TV. What relationships do
>> they have with the other vendors?  Can I get HBO?  Can I get all the
>> channels I want?  Or more important my wife wants?  Does Netflix, Amazon
>> Streaming, Hulu+ work w/ all the GOogle Fiber conenction?  Are there other
>> channel restrictions?
>>
>
> Ahh, .. does Google Internet include content?? Now *that* would be
> interesting!
>
>
>         Lee
> ______________________________**_________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-**bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>

I'm talking about the Google TV Pacakge here.. i think there is a tier w/o
TV and a Tier w/  TV and you can't get the higher Tier of bandwidth w/o the
TV tier.  Of course I would want the higher bandwidth, but if I can't get
the TV content why switch?
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From knightperson at zuzax.com  Mon Sep 10 15:07:19 2012
From: knightperson at zuzax.com (Mike Williams)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:07:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900> <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900> <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net> <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>
 <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <504E3A67.5060002@zuzax.com>

Maybe Google will start out selling native IPv6?

Even if they don't, odds are that there won't be very many hiding behind 
a consumer-grade IP, and knowing that data in aggregate will still be 
useful. All the IP's hiding behind that one public one are likely the 
same household anyway.

Now, if somebody set-up a Tor cloud on the fiber network or something, 
THAT would give the data collectors fits.

On 09/10/2012 03:01 PM, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> At 01:52 PM 9/10/2012, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
>> > Otherwise, Google owns your browsing history.
>>
>> If Google controls the pipe most of the above become moot.
>
> Sorry, that is not entiresly valid. There could be *hundreds* of 
> systems behind a single public IP, so just controlling the public 
> traffic does little to differentiate individual users.
>
>         Lee
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Sep 10 15:17:48 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:17:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>
 <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <20120910191748.GA16343@mint>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 02:01:25PM -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote:
> At 01:52 PM 9/10/2012, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> >> Otherwise, Google owns your browsing history.
> >
> >If Google controls the pipe most of the above become moot.
> 
> Sorry, that is not entiresly valid. There could be *hundreds* of
> systems behind a single public IP, so just controlling the public
> traffic does little to differentiate individual users.

Hundreds?  Er, this service is targeted to home users.  In my home we
have maybe fifteen devices connected, with cell phones, game systems,
and computers.

If Google controls the pipe they own far more than just your browsing
history?they own ALL of your data (email, VOIP, etc.) history.
-- 
john-thomas
------
I place economy among the first and most important republican virtues, and
public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared. To preserve our
independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Thomas Jefferson, third US president, architect and author (1743-1826)

From mikemol at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 15:53:14 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:53:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <504E3A67.5060002@zuzax.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>
 <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <504E3A67.5060002@zuzax.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiDq6DFEmKYWpgrEWtM3uG5DFYm0R7bZhQ6Eu8AcMx_-iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Mike Williams <knightperson at zuzax.com>wrote:

> Maybe Google will start out selling native IPv6?
>
> Even if they don't, odds are that there won't be very many hiding behind a
> consumer-grade IP, and knowing that data in aggregate will still be useful.
> All the IP's hiding behind that one public one are likely the same
> household anyway.
>
> Now, if somebody set-up a Tor cloud on the fiber network or something,
> THAT would give the data collectors fits.
>
>
Familiarize yourself with IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Essentially, your source
IP address is randomized every five minutes. (You maintain a long-term IP
address, too, but the temporary address is used for most outbound
connections.)

Windows Vista and Windows 7 enable this by default, as do the desktop SKUs
of Ubuntu.

-- 
:wq
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From bob.kline at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 16:26:17 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:26:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
Message-ID: <CAFOq4ELGZmHUAjXrRPPPMa6Ktiz0BVAs3-Uj0mYAUxkmM9x5Hg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 1:39 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:

> On Mon Sep 10 2012 11:43:47 AM EDT, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > September 13. For $70 per month, residents can get Gigabit Internet, and
> > for $120 per month, they can get Gigabit Internet service plus TV.
> > There's even a "free" Internet tier with 5Mbps down and 1Mbps up. The
> > free tier requires a one-time construction fee of $300 or 12 monthly
> > payments of $25, but Google guarantees the free service for seven years.
> > **
> >
> > About the same price the rest of
> > us pay for about 3% of that bandwidth.
> >
> > I wonder where Google with go with
> > this next?   i.e., if that $70 represents
> > a true service price, I'd think the door
> > would be open to many other cities,
> > on the way to creating Google Net.
> >
> > Even that "free" service works out to
> > about $45 a year, or less if Google
> > extends it.
>
> Google's primary business is selling ads.  To sell ads more effectively
> they try to know as much about you as possible.  Would you really want them
> being able to see *all* of you data traffic?  This is a real conflict of
> interest (if you believe in the principles of net-neutrality).
>
>
Comcast owns NBC now, and has already
been slapped for interfering with cable data content.
The use of BitTorrent if I remember correctly.
Time-Werner also owned, or owns, a cable
company. M$ recently had its bippy slapped
in Europe for stalling about making one's
browser selectable.

I believe you're correct in saying that this
is all a net neutrality issue, and is exactly
why Google decided to try to put in another
network. Any one of these things could
disrupt it's own revenue stream.  If it can
offer 1Gbps for $70 a month and make
money, it also shoots holes in most of the
offerings from other ISPs.  I'm not sure why
it considers Kansas an experiment, but if
all goes well I'd think people would be
beating the doors down for it. Most other
outfits are trying to squeeze more revenue
out of their old physical plant rather than
add new capacity, by dragging their feet
on bandwidth, having monthly byte limits,
and whatever else you've got. Verizon
has the only other major fiber operation,
but seems to have turned down the heat
on new installation, even while its existing
fiber system is very highly rated in CR.

IMHO Google seems to feel that the only
way to protect its own interests is to have
its own network, and events seem to be
proving it right.  In my experience, I'd
sooner go along with Google than most of
the other outfits.

And of course having bought Motorola,
it might have designs on branching out
in to non search areas, although M$ shows
it can be hard to be successful outside that
cushy monopoly.  But one thing at a time.
The Chromium browser has been successful
enough.

   -- Bob
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Mon Sep 10 17:43:29 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:43:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] pdf's printing 2xLarge
In-Reply-To: <1341581052.3400.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
References: <1341502584.2402.13.camel@localhost>
 <1341581052.3400.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
Message-ID: <1347313411.2191.9.camel@localhost>

It's happening again. Seems to be something in the Trendnet Network
Server. It doesn't happen when I USB directly to the Linux box. Nor does
it happen via the print server when printing from Adobe reader in Win or
Preview in Mac Lion. 

So is this a problem for Evince or for Trendnet?

Yes--Evince.
CUPS Setup:
Brother-HL1440-Network (Idle, Accepting Jobs, Not Shared)
Description:	Brother HL-1440-Network
Location:	Trendnet Networkd Server
Driver:	Brother HL-1440 - CUPS+Gutenprint v5.2.7 (grayscale, 2-sided
printing)
Connection:	socket://192.168.2.105:9100
Defaults:	job-sheets=none, none media=na_letter_8.5x11in sides=one-sided



On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 09:24 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Thu, 2012-07-05 at 11:36 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: 
> > When I print pdf's
> 
> Print from what application?
> 
> I don't see this issue printing PDFs.
> 
> > , they're coming out of the printer with each
> > dimension doubled, so the page only shows 1/4 of the content. When I
> > look in print preview it seems OK and on the Page Handling tab I have it
> > set "Shrink to Printable Area." I end up having to manually tell it to
> > print at 50%. One of the documents that gave me trouble this morning is
> > a pdf received as a mail attachment; the other is a pdf of a LibreOffice
> > document saved as .doc and exported to pdf with LibreOffice.
> > Pdf's are opened in and printed from Document Viewer in Fedora 15.
> 
> I assume "Document Viewer" is Evince?
> 
> > Sending to Brother HL-1440 laser printer through a TE-100-P1U print
> > server.
> 
> There is a queue on a local CUPS instance that points to this device?
> What are your options & driver in CUPS?
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From ebever at researchintegration.org  Mon Sep 10 17:47:57 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:47:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] pdf's printing 2xLarge
In-Reply-To: <1347313411.2191.9.camel@localhost>
References: <1341502584.2402.13.camel@localhost>
 <1341581052.3400.1.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <1347313411.2191.9.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1347313679.2191.11.camel@localhost>

If I go into "Print Quality" and set resolution to 300 DPI, it prints
properly. But all resolutions options show a proper-looking page on
print preview from the "Print Quality" dialog.
On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 17:43 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> It's happening again. Seems to be something in the Trendnet Network
> Server. It doesn't happen when I USB directly to the Linux box. Nor does
> it happen via the print server when printing from Adobe reader in Win or
> Preview in Mac Lion. 
> 
> So is this a problem for Evince or for Trendnet?
> 
> Yes--Evince.
> CUPS Setup:
> Brother-HL1440-Network (Idle, Accepting Jobs, Not Shared)
> Description:	Brother HL-1440-Network
> Location:	Trendnet Networkd Server
> Driver:	Brother HL-1440 - CUPS+Gutenprint v5.2.7 (grayscale, 2-sided
> printing)
> Connection:	socket://192.168.2.105:9100
> Defaults:	job-sheets=none, none media=na_letter_8.5x11in sides=one-sided
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 09:24 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > On Thu, 2012-07-05 at 11:36 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: 
> > > When I print pdf's
> > 
> > Print from what application?
> > 
> > I don't see this issue printing PDFs.
> > 
> > > , they're coming out of the printer with each
> > > dimension doubled, so the page only shows 1/4 of the content. When I
> > > look in print preview it seems OK and on the Page Handling tab I have it
> > > set "Shrink to Printable Area." I end up having to manually tell it to
> > > print at 50%. One of the documents that gave me trouble this morning is
> > > a pdf received as a mail attachment; the other is a pdf of a LibreOffice
> > > document saved as .doc and exported to pdf with LibreOffice.
> > > Pdf's are opened in and printed from Document Viewer in Fedora 15.
> > 
> > I assume "Document Viewer" is Evince?
> > 
> > > Sending to Brother HL-1440 laser printer through a TE-100-P1U print
> > > server.
> > 
> > There is a queue on a local CUPS instance that points to this device?
> > What are your options & driver in CUPS?
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From casey at grlug.org  Mon Sep 10 17:55:42 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 17:55:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG / GRMakers Social Wednesday September 12 @ The
	Warehouse
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZG40Qrmb-2G3gQkrJjKxriodb_i_2pYosJU3dz_FjwCZg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello GRLUG,

Mark your calendars NOW!!!

Wednesday September 12 @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison

8-10PM GRLUG/GRMakers Social

Agenda:
Raspberry Pi Demo, bring your RaspberryPi to show off as we are
interested in what linux versions everyone has running and what they
can do with them.
We will also be discussing GRMakers and anyone interested in
Maker/Hacker Spaces should attend.

P.S. The GRMobileDev group will also be meeting @ The Warehouse from
6-8PM so come early for this and stay for the rest.

Agenda:
Python and the Scripting Layer for Android

Ben Rousch will be talking about using Python to develop on and for
Android with the Scripting Layer for Android. Much of the information
will also apply to other SL4A scripting languages such as Beanshell,
JRuby, Lua, Rhino, Perl, and TCL. Ben will be expanding on the SL4A
section of his PyOhio 2012 talk and his Python and Android talk at
BarCampGR.



Looking forward to seeing everyone!

Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From coderjoe69 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 03:08:58 2012
From: coderjoe69 at yahoo.com (Thad Ward)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:08:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiDq6DFEmKYWpgrEWtM3uG5DFYm0R7bZhQ6Eu8AcMx_-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900> <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900> <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net> <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>
 <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net> <504E3A67.5060002@zuzax.com>
 <CA+czFiDq6DFEmKYWpgrEWtM3uG5DFYm0R7bZhQ6Eu8AcMx_-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1347347338.66348.YahooMailNeo@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

On Mon, Sept 10, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> Familiarize yourself with IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Essentially, your source IP address is randomized every five minutes. (You maintain a long-term IP address, too, but the temporary address is used for most outbound connections.)


And those privacy extensions prevent the provider of the IPs from knowing which prefix was given to which of their customers how? Plus, if you have multiple systems on your network, you would need to subdivide your space, and some data analysis could provide evidence that certain prefixes are being used by different systems with different users on them.

On other points mentioned, your DNS queries could give you away, even if you are using SSL. Also, if you are using SSL, if your browser does Server Name Indication, someone can still tell what site you're visiting, even if they can't see what you're accessing on that site.

If your ISP derives their primary income from the sale of advertising, they have a strong incentive to do whatever they need to do to see what you're doing in order to target ads at you.

From mikemol at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 08:28:57 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 08:28:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <1347347338.66348.YahooMailNeo@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <CAFOq4EJ2qSYymtxiSPbhJk0rHTWrbn8awTSKdC4f3SGpXRAs4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347298759.1476.8.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E262B.9090100@codeventure.net>
 <1347300432.1721.5.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <504E2C91.8040606@codeventure.net>
 <CAJd2Bx-_zbf0UCQicrbWSyYHUfYYUwVriSaDHLMCJat=-mCydA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201209101844.q8AIijoQ001128@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <20120910185202.GA15933@mint>
 <201209101901.q8AJ1OoQ009243@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <504E3A67.5060002@zuzax.com>
 <CA+czFiDq6DFEmKYWpgrEWtM3uG5DFYm0R7bZhQ6Eu8AcMx_-iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1347347338.66348.YahooMailNeo@web160706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiBZhts+G1561LFnx7_NQAZ-5nNTGRxUbiS+PeydqpUKZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Thad Ward <coderjoe69 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sept 10, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Familiarize yourself with IPv6 Privacy Extensions. Essentially, your
> source IP address is randomized every five minutes. (You maintain a
> long-term IP address, too, but the temporary address is used for most
> outbound connections.)
>
>
> And those privacy extensions prevent the provider of the IPs from knowing
> which prefix was given to which of their customers how?


I misread Mike's post as focusing on having multiple people coming out
through one IP, as opposed to multiple people coming through the same
subnet.


> Plus, if you have multiple systems on your network, you would need to
> subdivide your space,


Absolutely not true.

First, if your ISP is giving you a routed /64, then the /64 you place your
computers on is distinct from the /64 your router's IP has (for
communicating between itself and your ISP). Just take your /64 and apply it
to your local network.

Second, if your ISP is stupid (and some have been...I don't think any of
the major IPv6-supporting major consumer carriers (such as AT&T and
Comcast) have been, though), they'll give you an *on-link* /64, which means
your router has an IP on the same subnet as the rest of your network, the
solution is to use ND-proxy.

Either way, if you have a /64 (which is the minimum size ISPs are supposed
to allocate to end-users), then you can have as many machines on your
network as you can stand to have on the same subnet.


> and some data analysis could provide evidence that certain prefixes are
> being used by different systems with different users on them.
>

If you subnet (and I think you should), sure. I think you're being hyper
paranoid (or are in an environment with some pretty strict security
requirements) if this is something you're worried about, but in such a case
you probably should be using a proxy server on your network gateway.


>
> On other points mentioned, your DNS queries could give you away, even if
> you are using SSL. Also, if you are using SSL, if your browser does Server
> Name Indication, someone can still tell what site you're visiting, even if
> they can't see what you're accessing on that site.
>

There are people who have legitimate worries about things of this nature.
Mostly missionaries and volunteers in charitable NGOs in countries without
religious freedom.

If your worries really do extend this far, you need to be using IPSec and
tunnels. Worse, you need to start looking at things like packet fill,
because packet timings and entropy measurements can still tell useful
information about an encrypted packet stream.


>
> If your ISP derives their primary income from the sale of advertising,
> they have a strong incentive to do whatever they need to do to see what
> you're doing in order to target ads at you.
>

The only advantage they could have for doing it at layer 3 is geographical
targeting. And, honestly, they already have enough information for good
results there, from the people who don't block ads, cookies, etc. If they
want better, they need only get their anycast DNS servers closer to the
edge of each neighborhood they're interested in, and then correlate server
addresses and DNS queries with source IP addresses. That also ignores that
web pages can now ask for geolocation details from browsers, and that
people with smartphones are actively ceeding this information in the name
of convenient services.

If you think they're going to set up an ISP with gigabit network access for
end-users just for the purpose of getting at that last half a percent of
people who use the Internet, but take active measures to clear cookies and
employ anonymization techniques, then I think you missed the point of
diminishing returns. There are plenty of volunteers, at this point, and
Google doesn't need to actively chase the rest.

No, the only real reason I can see for Google to be setting up their own
ISP is because they have a *crapton* of content (Youtube, mostly) they need
to get to the edge, and ISPs like Comcast and AT&T aren't going to let them
drop their own CDN nodes into their networks without charging for it.
(Remember that? It was one of the things that sparked off the net
neutrality debate last decade.) This is Google's way of telling them,
"look, we're not going to pay the rates you're asking for, and we're not
going to put up with you lowering priority on our traffic, either. Instead,
we're going to set up a loss-leader ISP and put our content cache ten miles
away from each customer. Their end experience looking for cute kittens on
our network is going to blow away the same on yours, and it'll be cheaper
to boot."

In short, this is Google's big stick for dealing with any ISP that wants to
play hardball with network ingress and colocation.

-- 
:wq
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From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 08:53:15 2012
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:53:15 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: [ubuntu-us-mi] sfd - software freedom day - i MI
In-Reply-To: <50507F18.1000500@flash.net>
References: <50507F18.1000500@flash.net>
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB11SdxscxR0-hAkA739Kas35V9vnzZEo2wfuOjMmNs+Fw@mail.gmail.com>

I can't make it, but I thought some of you might be interested.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: mike bader <mdbader at flash.net>
Date: Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 8:24 AM
Subject: [ubuntu-us-mi] sfd - software freedom day - i MI
To: ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com


We are having one in Ferndale MI
9/15/12

www.tinyurl.com/sfdmi

BBQ, food, beverages, cake and ice cream, software, presentations,
demos, recycle drop off, linux installfest.
11:30 AM until ??? (rain or shine)

mike bader

--
ubuntu-us-mi mailing list
ubuntu-us-mi at lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-mi


-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/

From casey at grlug.org  Wed Sep 12 13:00:01 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:00:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] REMINDER ** GRLUG / GRMakers Social TONIGHT!!! Wednesday
 September 12 @ The Warehouse
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZEV5xTfEWSx=4WTVZ2Ntw8dHjJhJ2MLfijLx42DtODMfw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys,

N-Vint is sponsoring Food and Sodas tonight!!!
Just Burgers and such but better than nothing.

I've been getting a BIG response and think we will be PACKED!!!

MANY PEOPLE interested in seeing the RaspberryPi and talking about GRMakers.com



Hello GRLUG,

Mark your calendars NOW!!!

Wednesday September 12 @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison

8-10PM GRLUG/GRMakers Social

Agenda:
Raspberry Pi Demo, bring your RaspberryPi to show off as we are
interested in what linux versions everyone has running and what they
can do with them.
We will also be discussing GRMakers and anyone interested in
Maker/Hacker Spaces should attend.

P.S. The GRMobileDev group will also be meeting @ The Warehouse from
6-8PM so come early for this and stay for the rest.

Agenda:
Python and the Scripting Layer for Android

Ben Rousch will be talking about using Python to develop on and for
Android with the Scripting Layer for Android. Much of the information
will also apply to other SL4A scripting languages such as Beanshell,
JRuby, Lua, Rhino, Perl, and TCL. Ben will be expanding on the SL4A
section of his PyOhio 2012 talk and his Python and Android talk at
BarCampGR.



Looking forward to seeing everyone!

Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org


-- 
Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From casey at grlug.org  Thu Sep 13 11:05:43 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:05:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey GRLUG,

Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.

What are the options?

Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:06:58 2012
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:06:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAuMJGHBd0Z2AR80w8xRvr-Zvfm-HDrnpPLB1ah2nzxR0p8DBw@mail.gmail.com>

Umm, Call Casey, wait...

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

> Hey GRLUG,
>
> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>
> What are the options?
>
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From scott.tanner at comcast.net  Thu Sep 13 11:10:08 2012
From: scott.tanner at comcast.net (Scott Tanner)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:10:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>

To the cloud!    Amazon EC2 or its competitors.

Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

>Hey GRLUG,
>
>Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>
>What are the options?
>
>Casey DuBois
>616-808-6942
>casey at grlug.org
>_______________________________________________
>grlug mailing list
>grlug at grlug.org
>http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:11:55 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:11:55 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiCKMm2JS7S5LBsSfCv2Npm3P3GkA9dDEdo80Q7m7jdQtg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

> Hey GRLUG,
>
> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>
> What are the options?
>

The nearest thing I'm aware of is the National Center for Supercomputing at
the University of Illinois. But it's not something I'm studied on.

A lot rides on how the job being done, and how the nodes need to
communicate. If work units are distributed and collected over, e.g. HTTP,
you could try Amazon EC2 or some other cloud services, but I don't know if
they have the capacity.

You might prod, e.g. LiquidWeb. When we were there, they had a lot of
unfilled space, and you might come to an arrangement that fills another
wing...
-- 
:wq
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From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:12:08 2012
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:12:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <scott.tanner at comcast.net>wrote:

> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>
> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hey GRLUG,
>>
>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>>
>> What are the options?
>>
>> Casey DuBois
>> 616-808-6942
>> casey at grlug.org
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:14:30 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:14:30 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>

You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing network
boundaries.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <scott.tanner at comcast.net>wrote:
>
>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>>
>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey GRLUG,
>>>
>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>>>
>>> What are the options?
>>>
>>> Casey DuBois
>>> 616-808-6942
>>> casey at grlug.org
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq
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From rsteenwyk at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:18:47 2012
From: rsteenwyk at gmail.com (Rob Steenwyk)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:18:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANmL62pYuqT=8dFPb1_k2R8Fm7kuWGa9qr=mDkTROvDVLMZ4FA@mail.gmail.com>

What kind of a workload are we talking about? Budget?

Rob Steenwyk
rsteenwyk at gmail.com
616-723-0226


On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing
> network boundaries.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <scott.tanner at comcast.net>wrote:
>>
>>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>>>
>>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey GRLUG,
>>>>
>>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>>>>
>>>> What are the options?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Casey DuBois
>>>> 616-808-6942
>>>> casey at grlug.org
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From casey at grlug.org  Thu Sep 13 11:19:13 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:19:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking into the Amazon and the National Computing Center options
but who are the others?

Since I am a hardware guy this is what I am thinking:
3072-Cores, 6,144GB RAM, 6-HP Racks, 24-C7000 Chassis, 384-BL460 (2xQC
2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
4096-Cores, 8,192GB RAM, 8-HP Racks, 32-C7000 Chassis, 512-BL460 (2xQC
2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
5120-Cores, 10,240GB RAM, 10-HP Racks, 40-C7000 Chassis, 640-BL460
(2xQC 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing network
> boundaries.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <scott.tanner at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>>>
>>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey GRLUG,
>>>>
>>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>>>>
>>>> What are the options?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Casey DuBois
>>>> 616-808-6942
>>>> casey at grlug.org
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>>
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From brousch at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:20:44 2012
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:20:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CANmL62pYuqT=8dFPb1_k2R8Fm7kuWGa9qr=mDkTROvDVLMZ4FA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANmL62pYuqT=8dFPb1_k2R8Fm7kuWGa9qr=mDkTROvDVLMZ4FA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB0JmkPT9C+S_+LPtkfitBFTJogz-SQwB30UX9+wmV=JXw@mail.gmail.com>

Google Compute Engine http://cloud.google.com/products/compute-engine.html

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Rob Steenwyk <rsteenwyk at gmail.com> wrote:
> What kind of a workload are we talking about? Budget?
>
> Rob Steenwyk
> rsteenwyk at gmail.com
> 616-723-0226
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing
>> network boundaries.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <scott.tanner at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>>>>
>>>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey GRLUG,
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the options?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Casey DuBois
>>>>> 616-808-6942
>>>>> casey at grlug.org
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:30:52 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:30:52 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiB=KcmsAwbK6uszihzXPN4vw+GaOQkFfJSXkRT4fqwwUg@mail.gmail.com>

*muses that this would be a kickass thing to have as part of a hackerspace.*

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

> I'm looking into the Amazon and the National Computing Center options
> but who are the others?
>
> Since I am a hardware guy this is what I am thinking:
> 3072-Cores, 6,144GB RAM, 6-HP Racks, 24-C7000 Chassis, 384-BL460 (2xQC
> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
> 4096-Cores, 8,192GB RAM, 8-HP Racks, 32-C7000 Chassis, 512-BL460 (2xQC
> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
> 5120-Cores, 10,240GB RAM, 10-HP Racks, 40-C7000 Chassis, 640-BL460
> (2xQC 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing
> network
> > boundaries.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <
> scott.tanner at comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
> >>>
> >>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey GRLUG,
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6
> months.
> >>>>
> >>>> What are the options?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Casey DuBois
> >>>> 616-808-6942
> >>>> casey at grlug.org
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> grlug mailing list
> >>>>
> >>>> grlug at grlug.org
> >>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> grlug mailing list
> >>> grlug at grlug.org
> >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq
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From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:32:18 2012
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:32:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiB=KcmsAwbK6uszihzXPN4vw+GaOQkFfJSXkRT4fqwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiB=KcmsAwbK6uszihzXPN4vw+GaOQkFfJSXkRT4fqwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAuMJGH22sCneQ8mJr48jbw5+z8hzgRwyCaE1BhRmZkpVU-p7g@mail.gmail.com>

You see the 64 raspberry pi machine on G+ 2 days ago?

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> *muses that this would be a kickass thing to have as part of a
> hackerspace.*
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm looking into the Amazon and the National Computing Center options
>> but who are the others?
>>
>> Since I am a hardware guy this is what I am thinking:
>> 3072-Cores, 6,144GB RAM, 6-HP Racks, 24-C7000 Chassis, 384-BL460 (2xQC
>> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>> 4096-Cores, 8,192GB RAM, 8-HP Racks, 32-C7000 Chassis, 512-BL460 (2xQC
>> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>> 5120-Cores, 10,240GB RAM, 10-HP Racks, 40-C7000 Chassis, 640-BL460
>> (2xQC 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing
>> network
>> > boundaries.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <
>> scott.tanner at comcast.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>> >>>
>> >>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hey GRLUG,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6
>> months.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What are the options?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Casey DuBois
>> >>>> 616-808-6942
>> >>>> casey at grlug.org
>> >>>> ________________________________
>> >>>>
>> >>>> grlug mailing list
>> >>>>
>> >>>> grlug at grlug.org
>> >>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>
>> >>> grlug mailing list
>> >>> grlug at grlug.org
>> >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> grlug mailing list
>> >> grlug at grlug.org
>> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > :wq
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > grlug mailing list
>> > grlug at grlug.org
>> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Casey DuBois
>> 616-808-6942
>> casey at grlug.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:37:59 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:37:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAAuMJGH22sCneQ8mJr48jbw5+z8hzgRwyCaE1BhRmZkpVU-p7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiB=KcmsAwbK6uszihzXPN4vw+GaOQkFfJSXkRT4fqwwUg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAuMJGH22sCneQ8mJr48jbw5+z8hzgRwyCaE1BhRmZkpVU-p7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiAB1t+c1w_fLm65KPLjpysdkN6T599HFTSre6uc8pms_w@mail.gmail.com>

More excited about HP Redstone:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/01/hp_redstone_calxeda_servers/

Though it'll be better once the 64-bit ARM arch is settled.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>wrote:

> You see the 64 raspberry pi machine on G+ 2 days ago?
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> *muses that this would be a kickass thing to have as part of a
>> hackerspace.*
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm looking into the Amazon and the National Computing Center options
>>> but who are the others?
>>>
>>> Since I am a hardware guy this is what I am thinking:
>>> 3072-Cores, 6,144GB RAM, 6-HP Racks, 24-C7000 Chassis, 384-BL460 (2xQC
>>> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>>> 4096-Cores, 8,192GB RAM, 8-HP Racks, 32-C7000 Chassis, 512-BL460 (2xQC
>>> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>>> 5120-Cores, 10,240GB RAM, 10-HP Racks, 40-C7000 Chassis, 640-BL460
>>> (2xQC 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing
>>> network
>>> > boundaries.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <
>>> scott.tanner at comcast.net>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Hey GRLUG,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6
>>> months.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> What are the options?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Casey DuBois
>>> >>>> 616-808-6942
>>> >>>> casey at grlug.org
>>> >>>> ________________________________
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> grlug mailing list
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> >>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>
>>> >>> grlug mailing list
>>> >>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> grlug mailing list
>>> >> grlug at grlug.org
>>> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > :wq
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > grlug mailing list
>>> > grlug at grlug.org
>>> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Casey DuBois
>>> 616-808-6942
>>> casey at grlug.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq
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From tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:39:27 2012
From: tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:39:27 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMQOa2ArJ1a0Q4C-+2pqvLrCD9sQiPyRoQ=9uMVr=ZxfLZwg=w@mail.gmail.com>

12 M1000e with a total of 32 M420 blades in each gives you 3000 + cores.


--
Tom Warren
tomewarren at gmail.com
Dell - Storage Architect                         Red Hat Certified
Engineer (RHCE)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine and not necessarily those of my employer, Dell


On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> I'm looking into the Amazon and the National Computing Center options
> but who are the others?
>
> Since I am a hardware guy this is what I am thinking:
> 3072-Cores, 6,144GB RAM, 6-HP Racks, 24-C7000 Chassis, 384-BL460 (2xQC
> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
> 4096-Cores, 8,192GB RAM, 8-HP Racks, 32-C7000 Chassis, 512-BL460 (2xQC
> 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
> 5120-Cores, 10,240GB RAM, 10-HP Racks, 40-C7000 Chassis, 640-BL460
> (2xQC 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing network
>> boundaries.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <scott.tanner at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
>>>>
>>>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey GRLUG,
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6 months.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the options?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Casey DuBois
>>>>> 616-808-6942
>>>>> casey at grlug.org
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From richardnienhuis at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 11:45:24 2012
From: richardnienhuis at gmail.com (Richard Nienhuis)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:45:24 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Many core systems
In-Reply-To: <CAMQOa2ArJ1a0Q4C-+2pqvLrCD9sQiPyRoQ=9uMVr=ZxfLZwg=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZE7bPgUg2KNjz23unPQFFQPEG87toJ=Tgh4-+t2tWa3Pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <41c809d5-f865-4dd4-a645-4e685358c790@email.android.com>
 <CAAuMJGGZWcQo1Mz4TUgxy4gTxpiXkz8rTbSuk_0drR8mJUhX3Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiBjnqw33rGhAWJ4Y3OV0PBsADmGWk9P-qeimOKyo6X30w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZGhU_GijObV8tYn=gxSP-xcsHkEM4pkejtv8r66UQMx+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMQOa2ArJ1a0Q4C-+2pqvLrCD9sQiPyRoQ=9uMVr=ZxfLZwg=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJd2Bx8SHXfGFGUsFpGhFAoBnOJj7Mef2Mkx4kH=+xs8SDZ9aA@mail.gmail.com>

All the major vendors seem to have some sort of cloud computing program
now.  Really though, if you only need the power for 3-6 months
buying/leasing is probably a bad idea.  Unless you have very specific
needs.  IBM Will sell you access to a partial or whole z-series that might
have the capacity.  Can this load be dumped into graphics cards at all?
 Even if the program needs to be re-written it might make financial sense.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Tom Warren <tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com>wrote:

> 12 M1000e with a total of 32 M420 blades in each gives you 3000 + cores.
>
>
> --
> Tom Warren
> tomewarren at gmail.com
> Dell - Storage Architect                         Red Hat Certified
> Engineer (RHCE)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> These opinions are mine and not necessarily those of my employer, Dell
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> > I'm looking into the Amazon and the National Computing Center options
> > but who are the others?
> >
> > Since I am a hardware guy this is what I am thinking:
> > 3072-Cores, 6,144GB RAM, 6-HP Racks, 24-C7000 Chassis, 384-BL460 (2xQC
> > 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
> > 4096-Cores, 8,192GB RAM, 8-HP Racks, 32-C7000 Chassis, 512-BL460 (2xQC
> > 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
> > 5120-Cores, 10,240GB RAM, 10-HP Racks, 40-C7000 Chassis, 640-BL460
> > (2xQC 2.0GHz, 16GB, 1x146GB)
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> You'd get _killed_ on bandwidth consumption and contention crossing
> network
> >> boundaries.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Would using OpenStack let you leverage >1 supplier?
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Scott Tanner <
> scott.tanner at comcast.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> To the cloud! Amazon EC2 or its competitors.
> >>>>
> >>>> Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey GRLUG,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let's say you needed 3000-5000-Cores, and 6-10TB of RAM for 3-6
> months.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What are the options?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Casey DuBois
> >>>>> 616-808-6942
> >>>>> casey at grlug.org
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>
> >>>>> grlug mailing list
> >>>>>
> >>>>> grlug at grlug.org
> >>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>> grlug mailing list
> >>>> grlug at grlug.org
> >>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> grlug mailing list
> >>> grlug at grlug.org
> >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> :wq
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Casey DuBois
> > 616-808-6942
> > casey at grlug.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From brousch at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 14:28:58 2012
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:28:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Follow-up to Yesterday's GRMobileDev Talk
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB3GeCZEML38i+sVc423mtNdiUF=eao9RJkFjJ02sexBOQ@mail.gmail.com>

At least two interested people missed my GRMobile last night and asked
me for more info, so here it is. The best place to go for more info is
my blog post [1] from a week or so ago. It includes a link to my
PyOhio talk which includes much of the content of yesterday's talk (as
well as other topics), and the links in the post will take you to much
of the extra information I covered. Also, feel free to ask questions
about this on the GRMobileDev Google Group/discussion list [2].

[1] http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/09/04/pyohio-2012-presentation-python-and-android/
[2] https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/grmobiledev

-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 08:28:18 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:28:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Mesh network for emergency circumstances
Message-ID: <CA+czFiBcpuXhNe=E++rVR7Xw8FaNybt_4jCQZQVkfstFdRGG6g@mail.gmail.com>

I remember talking to someone in GRLUG (I think it was Kevin, but I'm
not sure) a few weeks ago who's actually implemented something like
this. Either way, the local search and rescue group is looking for a
solution:

Anyone have an interest in working on a project like this?


-- Fwd from Jeff Nawrot via Facebook --

Within the last 6 months Mike Fusaro N8MJF, Pat Mcbride and I along
with some folks in Muskegon have been goofing around a bit with this
type of an idea as well.  We just need someone who has an interest to
take the project and run with it for KCSAR / KCRACES activities.

Jeff

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:04 PMSubject: [Open-Source-CAD] Mobile
Mesh Network Ideas?To: Open Source CAD

All of you with better networks chops than I have, there's
aninteresting post on slashdot, at

  http://ask.slashdot.org/story/12/09/01/2121200/ask-slashdot-ad-hoc-wireless-mesh-network-for-emergency-vehicles

"I am looking to put together a mobile mesh network for my
volunteerfire department and would like some recommendations from the
Slashdotcrowd. Ideally, the network would consist of cheap wireless
routers(Linksys WRT-type) mounted on each vehicle.

"From there, tablets or other wireless devices could connect to therouter.

"When the vehicles are in the station, the routers would
auto-connectto the WiFi network to receive calls for service and other
updates.

"When out on a call, the router would form an ad-hoc network withother
vehicles on the scene. If a vehicle came into range of anInternet
'hotspot,' it would notify other vehicles and become agateway for the
rest of the 'ad-hoc' networked vehicles.

"I've looked at Freifunk for this, but would like some other
options.Recommendations please?"

Ideas?


--
:wq

From dave at hopasaurus.com  Fri Sep 14 12:12:17 2012
From: dave at hopasaurus.com (David Hoppe)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:12:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Mesh network for emergency circumstances
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiBcpuXhNe=E++rVR7Xw8FaNybt_4jCQZQVkfstFdRGG6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiBcpuXhNe=E++rVR7Xw8FaNybt_4jCQZQVkfstFdRGG6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50535761.1070507@hopasaurus.com>

James Kooistra did a talk on Mobil Mesh that is just what they need at 
BarCamp.

I know both of these guys and will get them introduced.  Actually they 
both know each other, so I guess I will just let them know they need to 
chat.



On 9/14/2012 8:28 AM, Michael Mol wrote:
> I remember talking to someone in GRLUG (I think it was Kevin, but I'm
> not sure) a few weeks ago who's actually implemented something like
> this. Either way, the local search and rescue group is looking for a
> solution:
>
> Anyone have an interest in working on a project like this?
>
>
> -- Fwd from Jeff Nawrot via Facebook --
>
> Within the last 6 months Mike Fusaro N8MJF, Pat Mcbride and I along
> with some folks in Muskegon have been goofing around a bit with this
> type of an idea as well.  We just need someone who has an interest to
> take the project and run with it for KCSAR / KCRACES activities.
>
> Jeff
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>
> Date: Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:04 PMSubject: [Open-Source-CAD] Mobile
> Mesh Network Ideas?To: Open Source CAD
>
> All of you with better networks chops than I have, there's
> aninteresting post on slashdot, at
>
>    http://ask.slashdot.org/story/12/09/01/2121200/ask-slashdot-ad-hoc-wireless-mesh-network-for-emergency-vehicles
>
> "I am looking to put together a mobile mesh network for my
> volunteerfire department and would like some recommendations from the
> Slashdotcrowd. Ideally, the network would consist of cheap wireless
> routers(Linksys WRT-type) mounted on each vehicle.
>
> "From there, tablets or other wireless devices could connect to therouter.
>
> "When the vehicles are in the station, the routers would
> auto-connectto the WiFi network to receive calls for service and other
> updates.
>
> "When out on a call, the router would form an ad-hoc network withother
> vehicles on the scene. If a vehicle came into range of anInternet
> 'hotspot,' it would notify other vehicles and become agateway for the
> rest of the 'ad-hoc' networked vehicles.
>
> "I've looked at Freifunk for this, but would like some other
> options.Recommendations please?"
>
> Ideas?
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>


From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 12:14:13 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:14:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Mesh network for emergency circumstances
In-Reply-To: <50535761.1070507@hopasaurus.com>
References: <CA+czFiBcpuXhNe=E++rVR7Xw8FaNybt_4jCQZQVkfstFdRGG6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <50535761.1070507@hopasaurus.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiDMuAQTbwraiQoMoQjQcpP-XD_V1cRGd=9RVhX4kqW-VA@mail.gmail.com>

Apparently, it turns out the setup Jeff is looking for was done out in
Livingston county.

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:12 PM, David Hoppe <dave at hopasaurus.com> wrote:
> James Kooistra did a talk on Mobil Mesh that is just what they need at
> BarCamp.
>
> I know both of these guys and will get them introduced.  Actually they both
> know each other, so I guess I will just let them know they need to chat.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/14/2012 8:28 AM, Michael Mol wrote:
>>
>> I remember talking to someone in GRLUG (I think it was Kevin, but I'm
>> not sure) a few weeks ago who's actually implemented something like
>> this. Either way, the local search and rescue group is looking for a
>> solution:
>>
>> Anyone have an interest in working on a project like this?
>>
>>
>> -- Fwd from Jeff Nawrot via Facebook --
>>
>> Within the last 6 months Mike Fusaro N8MJF, Pat Mcbride and I along
>> with some folks in Muskegon have been goofing around a bit with this
>> type of an idea as well.  We just need someone who has an interest to
>> take the project and run with it for KCSAR / KCRACES activities.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>
>> Date: Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:04 PMSubject: [Open-Source-CAD] Mobile
>> Mesh Network Ideas?To: Open Source CAD
>>
>> All of you with better networks chops than I have, there's
>> aninteresting post on slashdot, at
>>
>>
>> http://ask.slashdot.org/story/12/09/01/2121200/ask-slashdot-ad-hoc-wireless-mesh-network-for-emergency-vehicles
>>
>> "I am looking to put together a mobile mesh network for my
>> volunteerfire department and would like some recommendations from the
>> Slashdotcrowd. Ideally, the network would consist of cheap wireless
>> routers(Linksys WRT-type) mounted on each vehicle.
>>
>> "From there, tablets or other wireless devices could connect to therouter.
>>
>> "When the vehicles are in the station, the routers would
>> auto-connectto the WiFi network to receive calls for service and other
>> updates.
>>
>> "When out on a call, the router would form an ad-hoc network withother
>> vehicles on the scene. If a vehicle came into range of anInternet
>> 'hotspot,' it would notify other vehicles and become agateway for the
>> rest of the 'ad-hoc' networked vehicles.
>>
>> "I've looked at Freifunk for this, but would like some other
>> options.Recommendations please?"
>>
>> Ideas?
>>
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
:wq

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 16:06:47 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:06:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
Message-ID: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>

http://omnibus.bobanna.com/isp_ratings/

Ratings of home ISP's.

It's hard to say whether CR's criteria have
changed a lot in four years, leading it to say
that no ISP now offers much value, or
whether the ISPs have in some what brought
this on themselves.

Of more importance are the relative ratings,
which having changed much.  WOW and FiOS
rock, and the rest are mostly all that is available
in a given area.

  -- Bob
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 16:29:07 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:29:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://omnibus.bobanna.com/isp_ratings/
>
> Ratings of home ISP's.
>
> It's hard to say whether CR's criteria have
> changed a lot in four years, leading it to say
> that no ISP now offers much value, or
> whether the ISPs have in some what brought
> this on themselves.
>
> Of more importance are the relative ratings,
> which having changed much.  WOW and FiOS
> rock, and the rest are mostly all that is available
> in a given area.

I've got a Consumer Reports subscription (I only do the web interface,
not the paper one). Here's the CYA caveat info from the relevant page:

"These Ratings are based on 42,939 respondents to the Consumer Reports
Annual Telecom Survey, online in spring 2008, who received
Internet/online access from a local provider, regardless if the
service was part of a bundled package or not."

I don't know why there are differences in the pictures of the 2010 and
2012 graphs...but I haven't seen a physical copy of that page, either.

There is one trend worth observing: ISPs based on technology requiring
newer infrastructure (i.e. FiOS) rate higher. One thing not reflected
in the CR data is availability; FiOS is exceedingly uncommon, and is
not expanding rapidly, contrary to what the CR buying guide currently
(I checked) states.

-- 
:wq

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 16:49:46 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:49:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>

Good points.  I think Verizon has
essentially stopped expanding FiOS,
for reasons unclear.

It would be interesting what the more
technical people here have to say
about those they have experience with.

I've found Comcast adequately reliable
for the last couple of years.  Value?
Hard to say.  I don't have any viable
alternative.

   -- Bob


On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://omnibus.bobanna.com/isp_ratings/
> >
> > Ratings of home ISP's.
> >
> > It's hard to say whether CR's criteria have
> > changed a lot in four years, leading it to say
> > that no ISP now offers much value, or
> > whether the ISPs have in some what brought
> > this on themselves.
> >
> > Of more importance are the relative ratings,
> > which having changed much.  WOW and FiOS
> > rock, and the rest are mostly all that is available
> > in a given area.
>
> I've got a Consumer Reports subscription (I only do the web interface,
> not the paper one). Here's the CYA caveat info from the relevant page:
>
> "These Ratings are based on 42,939 respondents to the Consumer Reports
> Annual Telecom Survey, online in spring 2008, who received
> Internet/online access from a local provider, regardless if the
> service was part of a bundled package or not."
>
> I don't know why there are differences in the pictures of the 2010 and
> 2012 graphs...but I haven't seen a physical copy of that page, either.
>
> There is one trend worth observing: ISPs based on technology requiring
> newer infrastructure (i.e. FiOS) rate higher. One thing not reflected
> in the CR data is availability; FiOS is exceedingly uncommon, and is
> not expanding rapidly, contrary to what the CR buying guide currently
> (I checked) states.
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 16:56:32 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:56:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiAudHMZYMVkrB=4EdTezWvi=gGimjE3kW1mYr9r8iQrPQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> Good points.  I think Verizon has
> essentially stopped expanding FiOS,
> for reasons unclear.
>
> It would be interesting what the more
> technical people here have to say
> about those they have experience with.

Comcast has been reliable for me for the past year, where I've had it
at Brookmeadow N apartments.

OTOH, it's been unreliable at my grandmothers' on 27th street in Grandville.

For cable, it boils down to which loop you're sitting on...and when
Comcast moved into the area, they bought out the previous cable TV
provider (I don't remember their name), so there's a lot of
infrastructure artifacts still left over.

ADSL has its obvious variances based on how far you are from the
exchange point. (I can't remember the name atm.)

>
> I've found Comcast adequately reliable
> for the last couple of years.  Value?
> Hard to say.  I don't have any viable
> alternative.

Given that you still have it, I imagine that means its value is "adequate". :)

Mobile broadband offerings are getting better and better, enough so
that for some people it makes sense to use them as their ISP. I get
HSDP (7.2 Mb/s) in some places in Grand Rapids on T-Mobile, and the
newer phones have HDSP+, which moves around 45 Mb/s. But all that is
_highly_ dependent on where you are in relation to the nearest cell
antenna that might be pointed your way. On the bus, my cell data
connection drops out entirely in some places (mostly around Godfrey on
route 8, I think).

[snip]

-- 
:wq

From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 16:58:46 2012
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:58:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdZESp4iN7PuBpN1if7Du36fJj1UuKvk-gDQc5C768U9hMR_A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good points.  I think Verizon has
> essentially stopped expanding FiOS,
> for reasons unclear.
>
> It would be interesting what the more
> technical people here have to say
> about those they have experience with.
>
> I've found Comcast adequately reliable
> for the last couple of years.  Value?
> Hard to say.  I don't have any viable
> alternative.
>
>    -- Bob
>

+1
I get what I can, and I am happy with Comcast, but that may be that I don't
have a viable alternative to contrast with.

I recently upgraded my Docis 1 cable modem with a Docis 3 and Wow did that
ever make a difference.





>
>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > http://omnibus.bobanna.com/isp_ratings/
>> >
>> > Ratings of home ISP's.
>> >
>> > It's hard to say whether CR's criteria have
>> > changed a lot in four years, leading it to say
>> > that no ISP now offers much value, or
>> > whether the ISPs have in some what brought
>> > this on themselves.
>> >
>> > Of more importance are the relative ratings,
>> > which having changed much.  WOW and FiOS
>> > rock, and the rest are mostly all that is available
>> > in a given area.
>>
>> I've got a Consumer Reports subscription (I only do the web interface,
>> not the paper one). Here's the CYA caveat info from the relevant page:
>>
>> "These Ratings are based on 42,939 respondents to the Consumer Reports
>> Annual Telecom Survey, online in spring 2008, who received
>> Internet/online access from a local provider, regardless if the
>> service was part of a bundled package or not."
>>
>> I don't know why there are differences in the pictures of the 2010 and
>> 2012 graphs...but I haven't seen a physical copy of that page, either.
>>
>> There is one trend worth observing: ISPs based on technology requiring
>> newer infrastructure (i.e. FiOS) rate higher. One thing not reflected
>> in the CR data is availability; FiOS is exceedingly uncommon, and is
>> not expanding rapidly, contrary to what the CR buying guide currently
>> (I checked) states.
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 17:02:56 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:02:56 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAJdZESp4iN7PuBpN1if7Du36fJj1UuKvk-gDQc5C768U9hMR_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdZESp4iN7PuBpN1if7Du36fJj1UuKvk-gDQc5C768U9hMR_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiCMKVpmV=_2t3i3WyT9PFNNMp6kjduU8J-EZ_1bOwZgXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good points.  I think Verizon has
>> essentially stopped expanding FiOS,
>> for reasons unclear.
>>
>> It would be interesting what the more
>> technical people here have to say
>> about those they have experience with.
>>
>> I've found Comcast adequately reliable
>> for the last couple of years.  Value?
>> Hard to say.  I don't have any viable
>> alternative.
>>
>>    -- Bob
>
>
> +1
> I get what I can, and I am happy with Comcast, but that may be that I don't
> have a viable alternative to contrast with.
>
> I recently upgraded my Docis 1 cable modem with a Docis 3 and Wow did that
> ever make a difference.

People really should be upgrading to DOCSIS 3 as opportunity offers.
At the very least, it gives you channel switching capability, which
means your modem can be moved to a less-crowded frequency band on the
coax line.

-- 
:wq

From don.ellis at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 17:16:56 2012
From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:16:56 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALKyAet_=3E807NKSGjnh7veSX_-BeEw=x-HNS_o5fUqCOpCRg@mail.gmail.com>

So, isn't it helpful to see what's available, so you can choose among
the competition? <irony>

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:

...

> I've found Comcast adequately reliable
> for the last couple of years.  Value?
> Hard to say.  I don't have any viable
> alternative.

We don't have Comcast here, so I chose Charter. Tried AT&T DSL once,
not impressed.

> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > http://omnibus.bobanna.com/isp_ratings/
>> >
>> > Ratings of home ISP's.
>> >
>> > It's hard to say whether CR's criteria have
>> > changed a lot in four years, leading it to say
>> > that no ISP now offers much value, or
>> > whether the ISPs have in some what brought
>> > this on themselves.

How relevant is the rating of twenty or so ISPs you don't have access
to? You can only compare the brands available locally, without knowing
if the brand shown has any relation to the brand you have access to.
How does AT&T compare with AT&T anywhere else. That company in
particular is a patchwork made of a bunch of disparate local
companies, not the AT&T of my childhood.

>> > Of more importance are the relative ratings,
>> > which having changed much.  WOW and FiOS
>> > rock, and the rest are mostly all that is available
>> > in a given area.

And, is it the same carrier in your area going by the same name?

...

>> There is one trend worth observing: ISPs based on technology requiring
>> newer infrastructure (i.e. FiOS) rate higher. One thing not reflected
>> in the CR data is availability; FiOS is exceedingly uncommon, and is
>> not expanding rapidly, contrary to what the CR buying guide currently
>> (I checked) states.

Depends a bit on what you consider rapid, I suppose. Not present here
(St Louis MO) at all, so installing one line would be expansion.

All the same, I'd like to see how Google rates when their Giganet
installation is old enough to be rated.

--Don Ellis (St Louis MO)

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 17:19:13 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 17:19:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
In-Reply-To: <CAJdZESp4iN7PuBpN1if7Du36fJj1UuKvk-gDQc5C768U9hMR_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4ELh4raXs1UtpHW7=a5ssxUJVCd48dy1Ru+aXd2zK5gOrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiCL0FOHcqAnC7vwdWX5zuDGKcBP_XT8630PWO5507wq3g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFOq4EKXpQd4nPTGxHi+2p4TdBjmTtQS_uZGZqjGyoR-ChMSVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAJdZESp4iN7PuBpN1if7Du36fJj1UuKvk-gDQc5C768U9hMR_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFOq4EK5vEf3MaYGN5v5BPccHS6tN3_=qyOFu8vxavqdbZR4vQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Good points.  I think Verizon has
>> essentially stopped expanding FiOS,
>> for reasons unclear.
>>
>> It would be interesting what the more
>> technical people here have to say
>> about those they have experience with.
>>
>> I've found Comcast adequately reliable
>> for the last couple of years.  Value?
>> Hard to say.  I don't have any viable
>> alternative.
>>
>>    -- Bob
>>
>
> +1
> I get what I can, and I am happy with Comcast, but that may be that I
> don't have a viable alternative to contrast with.
>
> I recently upgraded my Docis 1 cable modem with a Docis 3 and Wow did that
> ever make a difference.
>
>
>
I somewhat found the same thing
going from DOCSIS 2 to 3, although
undoubtedly not as dramatic as going
from 1 to 3.

I now use the Motorola SB6120
Surfboard cable modem recommended
by several people in this group.  Works
beautifully.

    -- Bob


>
>
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From lord.drachenblut at gmail.com  Fri Sep 14 21:02:28 2012
From: lord.drachenblut at gmail.com (Lord Drachenblut)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 21:02:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Mesh network for emergency circumstances
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiDMuAQTbwraiQoMoQjQcpP-XD_V1cRGd=9RVhX4kqW-VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiBcpuXhNe=E++rVR7Xw8FaNybt_4jCQZQVkfstFdRGG6g@mail.gmail.com>
 <50535761.1070507@hopasaurus.com>
 <CA+czFiDMuAQTbwraiQoMoQjQcpP-XD_V1cRGd=9RVhX4kqW-VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG58yKvO7mJWfqxLUQ7SuDedaB_3qxSwKEpNLGZo__Z31pXg1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Byzantium Linux might be a solution
On Sep 14, 2012 12:14 PM, "Michael Mol" <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> Apparently, it turns out the setup Jeff is looking for was done out in
> Livingston county.
>
> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 12:12 PM, David Hoppe <dave at hopasaurus.com> wrote:
> > James Kooistra did a talk on Mobil Mesh that is just what they need at
> > BarCamp.
> >
> > I know both of these guys and will get them introduced.  Actually they
> both
> > know each other, so I guess I will just let them know they need to chat.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/14/2012 8:28 AM, Michael Mol wrote:
> >>
> >> I remember talking to someone in GRLUG (I think it was Kevin, but I'm
> >> not sure) a few weeks ago who's actually implemented something like
> >> this. Either way, the local search and rescue group is looking for a
> >> solution:
> >>
> >> Anyone have an interest in working on a project like this?
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Fwd from Jeff Nawrot via Facebook --
> >>
> >> Within the last 6 months Mike Fusaro N8MJF, Pat Mcbride and I along
> >> with some folks in Muskegon have been goofing around a bit with this
> >> type of an idea as well.  We just need someone who has an interest to
> >> take the project and run with it for KCSAR / KCRACES activities.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>
> >> Date: Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:04 PMSubject: [Open-Source-CAD] Mobile
> >> Mesh Network Ideas?To: Open Source CAD
> >>
> >> All of you with better networks chops than I have, there's
> >> aninteresting post on slashdot, at
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://ask.slashdot.org/story/12/09/01/2121200/ask-slashdot-ad-hoc-wireless-mesh-network-for-emergency-vehicles
> >>
> >> "I am looking to put together a mobile mesh network for my
> >> volunteerfire department and would like some recommendations from the
> >> Slashdotcrowd. Ideally, the network would consist of cheap wireless
> >> routers(Linksys WRT-type) mounted on each vehicle.
> >>
> >> "From there, tablets or other wireless devices could connect to
> therouter.
> >>
> >> "When the vehicles are in the station, the routers would
> >> auto-connectto the WiFi network to receive calls for service and other
> >> updates.
> >>
> >> "When out on a call, the router would form an ad-hoc network withother
> >> vehicles on the scene. If a vehicle came into range of anInternet
> >> 'hotspot,' it would notify other vehicles and become agateway for the
> >> rest of the 'ad-hoc' networked vehicles.
> >>
> >> "I've looked at Freifunk for this, but would like some other
> >> options.Recommendations please?"
> >>
> >> Ideas?
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> :wq
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Sat Sep 15 09:23:49 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 08:23:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] ML330
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209150823030.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>

Have not dealt with HP/Compaq much, .. and I *thought* the install was
going great until reboot.

> Configured SmartArray for RAID10, but SuSE 12.2 did not 'see' it; tried
to use the Compaq driver but it was a non-starter also.

> So, .. built SoftRaid for RAID6 & finished the install.

Verified /dev/sda1 as the boot partition (OK), .. but nada. What's the
trick to get it to BOOT with the BIOS on this machine??

	TIA,

	Lee


From bob.kline at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 20:15:28 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 20:15:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Goobuntu
Message-ID: <CAFOq4EJ280SWJfBDQSQ=BRz4sOkow6XEJ=rj2FmfSA-QxyBxkw@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.zdnet.com/the-truth-about-goobuntu-googles-in-house-desktop-ubuntu-linux-7000003462/


Amusing piece about Google's use of
Ubuntu - 12.04, with a light veneer of
Google's own.

Not mentioned is whether Google uses
Linux for it's search machines, said to
number as many as one million today.
The feeling is that it does.

   -- Bob
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From brousch at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 08:41:00 2012
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 08:41:00 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: [Chicago] Python for Android
In-Reply-To: <160B69A9-A18F-4C46-9BB9-223A157F72B1@gmail.com>
References: <160B69A9-A18F-4C46-9BB9-223A157F72B1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB3a5X=5Jk9pMjkbuOWsBmEwq5DR33_9d1sOmYEdN3wQVw@mail.gmail.com>

This looks like an interesting Python and Android meeting in Chicago.
I thought some my fellow Python and Android enthusiasts might be be
interested.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Brian Ray <brianhray at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 3:17 PM
Subject: [Chicago] Python for Android
To: The Chicago Python Users Group <chicago at python.org>



http://chicagoandroid.com/m/discussion?id=5161535%3ATopic%3A26846





_______________________________________________
Chicago mailing list
Chicago at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/chicago


-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/

From casey at grlug.org  Tue Sep 18 11:08:10 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 11:08:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG RaspberryPi Social Wednesday September 19 @ The
	Warehouse
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZHq_2Gtr-2u=_aLV3VvJ7-C2UPpCoeZirYVLRPpnV6WMA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello GRLUG,

Thanks again to N-Vint for sponsoring Sodas and Burgers last week!
There are Burgers and Dogs left over so I'm hosting this week's GRLUG
Social @ The Warehouse.

Wednesday September 19 @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison

Agenda:
Raspberry Pi Demo, bring your RaspberryPi to show off as we are
interested in what linux versions everyone has running and what they
can do with them.

Regards,
Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From casey at grlug.org  Thu Sep 20 16:01:43 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:01:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linux Segway
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZHKveKzw8sbZLyjCM1ZUP3xL6fT_RwoPG8aC9E=Kors7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZHKveKzw8sbZLyjCM1ZUP3xL6fT_RwoPG8aC9E=Kors7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZFcGrrK8HtSjx7sfofCkF=eA3Ljdedbew-2ORGScX_qWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys,

We weren't able to hack the standard Segway platform but check out
what University of Michigan graduate student Nick Carlevaris-Bianco
made from a Segway RMP-200 which comes with an open API from Segway
(http://rmp.segway.com/rmp-200/).

http://youtu.be/ciJHWHkSsNA


Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Sun Sep 23 10:19:27 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:19:27 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX
Message-ID: <CAFOq4ELaamjxXMZnNtYKVS9qoRoZsZjEwKDVzWOJKz4Bdfncww@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19665625

**
Bre Pettis said the Replicator 2.0 was aimed at the "prosumer" - either a
design professional or a hardcore hobbyist. The device costs $2,199
(?1,360) and builds objects up in layers only 100 microns thick. In
previous versions, each layer was about 270 microns thick.
**

This, and a laser scanner, and you can
make your own copy of a Neanderthal
or Hobbit skull.  Or maybe a case for
that RPi.  A bust of your very own head?

The technology has been around for
decades, but clearly is getting cheaper,
and better.  It must have some real
uses....  e.g. prototyping, modelling,
etc.

  -- Bob
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From bob.kline at gmail.com  Sun Sep 23 10:25:05 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:25:05 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] NOT LINUX either
Message-ID: <CAFOq4E++HTjVRH3uwp6b1TORZ-y011oHxrV+r2SMzA_p8bwBpg@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19648808


**

YouTube has blocked access to anti-Islamic film Innocence of Muslims in
Saudi Arabia following a demand by Saudi ruler King Abdullah.

The government had said it would block access to the entire YouTube website
if owners Google did not comply.

Google had rejected a request from the White House to remove the film, but
has already blocked access to it in Libya, Egypt, Indonesia and India.
**

Just curious, how does Google
block access to a country?  Use
the country code?

How to prevent the same item from
coming in from a dozen different
directions?  i.e., just not from Google?

Not clear how even a country itself
stops this, other than with some
hopeful filtering.

   -- Bob
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From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Sep 23 12:15:40 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 12:15:40 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Nation content blockingal,
	not really [Was: NOT LINUX either]
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4E++HTjVRH3uwp6b1TORZ-y011oHxrV+r2SMzA_p8bwBpg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFOq4E++HTjVRH3uwp6b1TORZ-y011oHxrV+r2SMzA_p8bwBpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1348416940.10095.12.camel@linux-nysu.site>

PLEASE use a relevant Subject when posting.

> YouTube has blocked access to anti-Islamic film Innocence of Muslims
> in Saudi Arabia following a demand by Saudi ruler King Abdullah.
> The government had said it would block access to the entire YouTube
> website if owners Google did not comply.
> Google had rejected a request from the White House to remove the film,
> but has already blocked access to it in Libya, Egypt, Indonesia and
> India.
> Just curious, how does Google 
> block access to a country? 

(a) They don't, simply.  These kinds of statements are just an ignorant
'street' interpretation of what happens.   Journalists.... ugh.

(b) As for blocking the video - the copy of the video hosted on YouTube
- then YouTube [a subsidiary of Google] can obviously revoke access to
the content to whomever they like.

(c) As for blocking the video - the copy of the video hosted on YouTube
- from appearing in search results.  Google can do that.

But in neither case do they block access from "the country".  They block
access from IP address ranges that are allocated to that country or
allocated to entities that are chartered in that country [whois].  This
kind of blocking will block probably 99.44% of the joe-six pack web
surfers;  but it is not effective in keeping the content out of the
hands of the net-savy user.

And for almost any content - you can probably just get it elsewhere.

> Use the country code?  

http://www.iana.org/numbers/

> How to prevent the same item from coming in from a dozen different 
> directions?  i.e., just not from Google?

This won't do anything to prevent that.

> Not clear how even a country itself
> stops this, other than with some 
> hopeful filtering.

Deep packet inspection firewalls can be extrememly effective.  And
expensive in both monetary and resource cost. 
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From lvl at omnitec.net  Sun Sep 23 16:52:24 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:52:24 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Top %wa
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209231551020.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>

Seeing what I would condider an extraordinarly high %wa (95%+), .. which
is flipping with 95% id!

I/O is minimal on this system (it's a Nagios box), anyone have a thought
as to what might be causing the excessive wait times?

Check dmesg & messages, no indication of a hardware failure.

	Lee

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Sep 23 18:15:14 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 18:15:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Top %wa
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209231551020.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209231551020.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <1348438514.10095.14.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Sun, 2012-09-23 at 15:52 -0500, L. V. Lammert wrote: 
> Seeing what I would condider an extraordinarly high %wa (95%+), .. which
> is flipping with 95% id!
> I/O is minimal on this system (it's a Nagios box), anyone have a thought
> as to what might be causing the excessive wait times?
> Check dmesg & messages, no indication of a hardware failure.

What services are running on the box?

Do you see a crazy number of open network connections [netstat --tcp]?

In gnome-system-monitor you can easily see the "Waiting Channel" of
processes; you can probably fumble around to get the same in "top".

If you run "dstat" for a few minutes what does it's counters look like?

Is your high wait time also accompanied by a very high load average or
is the load average low?
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Sun Sep 23 20:14:25 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 20:14:25 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] clean install and date modified
Message-ID: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>

Is there a way to do a clean install and then restore my home files
without having the Date Modified on those files change to the date of
the install? That's what happened to me the last time I did a new Linux
install.

Thanks
EB


From lvl at omnitec.net  Sun Sep 23 20:50:10 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 19:50:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] clean install and date modified
In-Reply-To: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
References: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSO.4.53.1209231949490.5359@Mail.omnitec.net>

On Sun, 23 Sep 2012, Eric Beversluis wrote:

> Is there a way to do a clean install and then restore my home files
> without having the Date Modified on those files change to the date of
> the install? That's what happened to me the last time I did a new Linux
> install.
>
rsync -av would copy the files without changing any meta data, ..

	Lee

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Sun Sep 23 22:03:33 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 22:03:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] clean install and date modified
In-Reply-To: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
References: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1348452213.10095.17.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Sun, 2012-09-23 at 20:14 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: 
> Is there a way to do a clean install and then restore my home files
> without having the Date Modified on those files change to the date of
> the install? That's what happened to me the last time I did a new Linux
> install.

If you are restoring a tar archive the date modified should be restored
along with the other data.

If you are just doing a copy [cp] then you want
"--preserve=mode,ownership,timestamps" and the copied files will have
the same metadata as the source files.  By default a copy operation onlu
copies the data and generates new metadata on the target.
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From megadave at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 09:11:47 2012
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:11:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] clean install and date modified
In-Reply-To: <1348452213.10095.17.camel@linux-nysu.site>
References: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
 <1348452213.10095.17.camel@linux-nysu.site>
Message-ID: <CAFP7kevq=+oxTPbQ2=T4yTGCSHXd5fa9Z92O-FP5s4ZEfh-r0Q@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, this might be one good reason for keeping /home on a separate
partition (or even a separate drive, if you have one) than the rest of
the system. All you'd need to do would be to install again, and just
tell the installer NOT to format /home (or dont even mount it during
the new install, just install with no separate /home, leaving the 2nd
drive alone, and then fixup the mounts after the new system was
running.)


On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
<awilliam at whitemice.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-09-23 at 20:14 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
>> Is there a way to do a clean install and then restore my home files
>> without having the Date Modified on those files change to the date of
>> the install? That's what happened to me the last time I did a new Linux
>> install.
>
> If you are restoring a tar archive the date modified should be restored
> along with the other data.
>
> If you are just doing a copy [cp] then you want
> "--preserve=mode,ownership,timestamps" and the copied files will have
> the same metadata as the source files.  By default a copy operation onlu
> copies the data and generates new metadata on the target.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From patrick at upmerchants.com  Mon Sep 24 09:24:01 2012
From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 09:24:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] clean install and date modified
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7kevq=+oxTPbQ2=T4yTGCSHXd5fa9Z92O-FP5s4ZEfh-r0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
 <1348452213.10095.17.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <CAFP7kevq=+oxTPbQ2=T4yTGCSHXd5fa9Z92O-FP5s4ZEfh-r0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50605EF1.5070108@upmerchants.com>



On 09/24/2012 09:11 AM, megadave wrote:
> FYI, this might be one good reason for keeping /home on a separate
> partition (or even a separate drive, if you have one) than the rest of
> the system. All you'd need to do would be to install again, and just
> tell the installer NOT to format /home (or dont even mount it during
> the new install, just install with no separate /home, leaving the 2nd
> drive alone, and then fixup the mounts after the new system was
> running.)
>
>    

As a general practice I do not place the home directory on a separate 
partition, but I do keep all of my personal files on a separate partition.

I do that because at one time I was trying out different linux installs 
and kept home on a separate patition.

Sometimes the "hidden profile/config" files for applications changed and 
I got "flakey" results booting between different linux distributions/ 
releases.

So now I keep my personal files on a separate partition and add a 
symlink to it in my home directory.

Application "profile/config" files I want to keep (like 
firefox/iceweasel, thunderbird/icedove, etc) I also keep on the separate 
partition and update the appropriate "profiles/config" files or create a 
symlink to it after the install of the os.

This method also cleans out all of the no longer used "profile/config" 
files from different apps I tried but decided to not use.


Patrick

From ptenhoopen at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 10:30:18 2012
From: ptenhoopen at gmail.com (Patrick TenHoopen)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:30:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>

Casey - Does this code still work?

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

> Hey GRLUG,
>
> Here's the advanced discount code for GRRCON.
> barcamp213 to recieve 35% off regular priced and student tickets
>
> Limited number of tickets so register NOW.
>
>
>
>
>      *GrrCON 2012 is almost here!*
>
> *Tickets are on sale RIGHT NOW*
>
> *Date:* September 27th & 28th , 2012
>
> GrrCON '12 will be BIGGER and better in every way! More talks, more food
> (less waiting), more 'drinks', more prizes, more space, more Wifi, more of
> our patented Tshirt distribution system, more ticket options, more of
> everything that makes GrrCON great. No other conference gives you what
> GrrCON does.
>
> GrrCON will include TWO DAYS of talks, Lock Pick Village, Contests, Free
> Food & *BEER*, Prizes, Earn 14 CPEs, Free after party, LOW cost
> workshops, Pre-con training and **much more.
>
>
> GrrCON has recognized subject matter experts such as Kevin Mitnick, Kevin
> Johnson, atlas 0f d00m, Jared DeMott, Daniel Lorhmann, Nick Percoco, Mike
> Kemp, and the return of Duncan Manuts, just to name a few of the MANY great
> speakers we have lined up. GrrCON will also feature exhibits by some of the
> nation's leading organizations!
>
>
> -=GrrCON '11 completely *SOLD OUT*, don't wait and miss 2012=-
>
>
>
> For the full schedule, tickets, and additional information go to:
> http://GrrCON.org
>
>
>
>
> *Location:*
> *DeVos Place*
> 303 Monroe Ave. NW
> Grand Rapids, MI
>
> *For more information click here:*
> GrrCON <http://grrcon.org/>
>
>
>       [image: Registration Powered by Eventbrite]<http://www.eventbrite.com/r/eemail>
> This email was sent via Eventbrite. Anyone can use Eventbrite to spread
> the word, collect money, and track RSVPs for an event. See how you can
> too! <http://www.eventbrite.com/t/how-to-sell-tickets-online/r/email>
> Click here<http://www.eventbrite.com/inviteunsubscribe?oid=1123039&r=casey at grlug.org>to unsubscribe from invitations by GrrCON.
> Eventbrite is located at 651 Brannan St, Ste 110, San Francisco, CA 94107.
>
>
>
> --
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
END OF LINE.
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From casey at grlug.org  Mon Sep 24 10:32:17 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:32:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>

it should, are you having an issue with it?
Casey
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From ptenhoopen at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 10:34:22 2012
From: ptenhoopen at gmail.com (Patrick TenHoopen)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:34:22 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Uh, no - I haven't tried it yet.  I was going to sign up today and was
wondering...  I'll let you know if it doesn't work.  Thanks!

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> it should, are you having an issue with it?
> Casey
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
END OF LINE.

From casey at grlug.org  Mon Sep 24 10:38:15 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:38:15 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZF44i0vvxYLX1yXg_NOHJEEy1bK_xkqii44uhPgoPj6jg@mail.gmail.com>

should work fine... let me know..



On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Patrick TenHoopen
<ptenhoopen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Uh, no - I haven't tried it yet.  I was going to sign up today and was
> wondering...  I'll let you know if it doesn't work.  Thanks!
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>> it should, are you having an issue with it?
>> Casey
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> END OF LINE.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From megadave at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 11:34:17 2012
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:34:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] clean install and date modified
In-Reply-To: <50605EF1.5070108@upmerchants.com>
References: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
 <1348452213.10095.17.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <CAFP7kevq=+oxTPbQ2=T4yTGCSHXd5fa9Z92O-FP5s4ZEfh-r0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <50605EF1.5070108@upmerchants.com>
Message-ID: <CAFP7kes16Wk6hGeBsZarjpEJJeGK2BEx+hHb8OUUPEBk5KD2CA@mail.gmail.com>

Its easy enough to remove the dot files (hidden/config) after an OS
re-install, to force an app to start fresh.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Patrick Goupell
<patrick at upmerchants.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 09/24/2012 09:11 AM, megadave wrote:
>>
>> FYI, this might be one good reason for keeping /home on a separate
>> partition (or even a separate drive, if you have one) than the rest of
>> the system. All you'd need to do would be to install again, and just
>> tell the installer NOT to format /home (or dont even mount it during
>> the new install, just install with no separate /home, leaving the 2nd
>> drive alone, and then fixup the mounts after the new system was
>> running.)
>>
>>
>
>
> As a general practice I do not place the home directory on a separate
> partition, but I do keep all of my personal files on a separate partition.
>
> I do that because at one time I was trying out different linux installs and
> kept home on a separate patition.
>
> Sometimes the "hidden profile/config" files for applications changed and I
> got "flakey" results booting between different linux distributions/
> releases.
>
> So now I keep my personal files on a separate partition and add a symlink to
> it in my home directory.
>
> Application "profile/config" files I want to keep (like firefox/iceweasel,
> thunderbird/icedove, etc) I also keep on the separate partition and update
> the appropriate "profiles/config" files or create a symlink to it after the
> install of the os.
>
> This method also cleans out all of the no longer used "profile/config" files
> from different apps I tried but decided to not use.
>
>
> Patrick
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From patrick at upmerchants.com  Mon Sep 24 12:18:03 2012
From: patrick at upmerchants.com (Patrick Goupell)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:18:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] clean install and date modified
In-Reply-To: <CAFP7kes16Wk6hGeBsZarjpEJJeGK2BEx+hHb8OUUPEBk5KD2CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1348445667.3463.2.camel@localhost>
 <1348452213.10095.17.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <CAFP7kevq=+oxTPbQ2=T4yTGCSHXd5fa9Z92O-FP5s4ZEfh-r0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <50605EF1.5070108@upmerchants.com>
 <CAFP7kes16Wk6hGeBsZarjpEJJeGK2BEx+hHb8OUUPEBk5KD2CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <506087BB.5030907@upmerchants.com>



On 09/24/2012 11:34 AM, megadave wrote:
> Its easy enough to remove the dot files (hidden/config) after an OS
> re-install, to force an app to start fresh.
>    

I do this because I try different distros / releases.  Sometimes the 
config files between distros / releases are at different levels and the 
app will complain if it finds something it does not expect to be there, 
so I find it easier to just have a clean home directory after an os install.

There are only a few files I need (iceweasel, icedove mainly) anyway so 
I find this quicker than delete dot hidden files.

Patrick

From ptenhoopen at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 13:28:57 2012
From: ptenhoopen at gmail.com (Patrick TenHoopen)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 13:28:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZF44i0vvxYLX1yXg_NOHJEEy1bK_xkqii44uhPgoPj6jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZF44i0vvxYLX1yXg_NOHJEEy1bK_xkqii44uhPgoPj6jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA4ca76q=07eGYM28=zGANdzpXoA9-XoTejHnksWgGp-UrEMdA@mail.gmail.com>

Nope, didn't work.  Says: Sorry, your requested ticket quantity
exceeds the number provided by your promotional code.

I only put in for 1 ticket.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> should work fine... let me know..
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Patrick TenHoopen
> <ptenhoopen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Uh, no - I haven't tried it yet.  I was going to sign up today and was
>> wondering...  I'll let you know if it doesn't work.  Thanks!
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>> it should, are you having an issue with it?
>>> Casey
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> END OF LINE.
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
END OF LINE.

From casey at grlug.org  Mon Sep 24 16:10:09 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:10:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAA4ca76q=07eGYM28=zGANdzpXoA9-XoTejHnksWgGp-UrEMdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZF44i0vvxYLX1yXg_NOHJEEy1bK_xkqii44uhPgoPj6jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76q=07eGYM28=zGANdzpXoA9-XoTejHnksWgGp-UrEMdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZEXKtObOx7zNrK0WvgUf7byA0OL_TeE0A3PPgTpZ6Y7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

I got 10 more activated.
Hurry up before they are all gone...

barcamp213 to recieve 35% off regular priced and student tickets

See you ALL there...
Casey

From ptenhoopen at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 16:14:38 2012
From: ptenhoopen at gmail.com (Patrick TenHoopen)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:14:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZEXKtObOx7zNrK0WvgUf7byA0OL_TeE0A3PPgTpZ6Y7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZF44i0vvxYLX1yXg_NOHJEEy1bK_xkqii44uhPgoPj6jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76q=07eGYM28=zGANdzpXoA9-XoTejHnksWgGp-UrEMdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEXKtObOx7zNrK0WvgUf7byA0OL_TeE0A3PPgTpZ6Y7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA4ca74ZPDghPC1B1CyuVYD_casAzXYg-Twym0_X+PDdmcEpZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Done!  Thanks Casey!  See you there.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> I got 10 more activated.
> Hurry up before they are all gone...
>
> barcamp213 to recieve 35% off regular priced and student tickets
>
> See you ALL there...
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
END OF LINE.

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Mon Sep 24 16:52:19 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:52:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
Message-ID: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>

AAaaaaargh! After a 3hr download and several hrs spent trying to get it 
to work, I gave up on preupgrade. Although it was supposed to upgrade 
automatically once the download was complete and I rebooted, nothing 
happened. Instructions for what to do in this case (needing to tell the 
boot loader where the upgrade kernel was) were obviously meant for older 
hardware and after a long time and some interactions on the Fedora IRC, 
I tried to do a manual boot to the upgrade kernel, only to be told that 
it could be found--several iterations of this.

So I gave up on that and downloaded the whole F17 DVD, checked the 
CHECKSUM and burned the iso DVD. But that wouldn't work either. I'd  hit 
"enter" to leave the normal boot, select F12 to "Choose temporary 
startup device, and then selected "USBCD: SONY DVD RW DRU-840A", which 
is where the upgrade DVD was located. Nothing. After spinning for a 
while I got brought right back to the "Choose temporary startup device" 
again.  After spending lots of time trying and retrying, reading Fedora 
documents, etc. I gave up.

I loaded my gparted-live disk (it booted fine from the same SONY 
external DVD drive) and deleted everything--time for a clean install I 
thought. Maybe something to do with UEFI craziness (that caused me all 
kinds of trouble last year when I installed F15). But still no luck 
getting the computer to boot from the F17 DVD.

I don't think the DVD is defective. I was able to open it when it 
mounted on the computer (before I bricked everything). I suppose I could 
try to download the F17 iso again and burn a new DVD--the download got 
nuked with everything else when I wiped the drive.

BTW: when I now try to boot and select "Choose temporary startup 
device", the Boot Menu shows the deleted Fedora and "ubuntu"--left over 
from last september when I had to give up on Ubuntu because it wouldn't 
get the screen resolution right? Why is it still showing these old boot 
options when all that stuff has been deleted?

Trying to do this on Lenovo X120e with AMD E-350 CPU.

Any ideas?

PS--the Evolution people recently gave me grief for running an old 
version of Fedora and thus of Evo. This is why I hadn't upgraded--I knew 
there'd be crazy snafus and  I'd end up having to spend several days 
trying to get the upgrade to work.

Thanks.

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Mon Sep 24 17:37:45 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 17:37:45 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>

On 9/24/2012 4:52 PM, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> AAaaaaargh! After a 3hr download and several hrs spent trying to get 
> it to work, I gave up on preupgrade. Although it was supposed to 
> upgrade automatically once the download was complete and I rebooted, 
> nothing happened. Instructions for what to do in this case (needing to 
> tell the boot loader where the upgrade kernel was) were obviously 
> meant for older hardware and after a long time and some interactions 
> on the Fedora IRC, I tried to do a manual boot to the upgrade kernel, 
> only to be told that it could be found--several iterations of this.
>
> So I gave up on that and downloaded the whole F17 DVD, checked the 
> CHECKSUM and burned the iso DVD. But that wouldn't work either. I'd  
> hit "enter" to leave the normal boot, select F12 to "Choose temporary 
> startup device, and then selected "USBCD: SONY DVD RW DRU-840A", which 
> is where the upgrade DVD was located. Nothing. After spinning for a 
> while I got brought right back to the "Choose temporary startup 
> device" again.  After spending lots of time trying and retrying, 
> reading Fedora documents, etc. I gave up.
>
> I loaded my gparted-live disk (it booted fine from the same SONY 
> external DVD drive) and deleted everything--time for a clean install I 
> thought. Maybe something to do with UEFI craziness (that caused me all 
> kinds of trouble last year when I installed F15). But still no luck 
> getting the computer to boot from the F17 DVD.
>
> I don't think the DVD is defective. I was able to open it when it 
> mounted on the computer (before I bricked everything). I suppose I 
> could try to download the F17 iso again and burn a new DVD--the 
> download got nuked with everything else when I wiped the drive.
>
> BTW: when I now try to boot and select "Choose temporary startup 
> device", the Boot Menu shows the deleted Fedora and "ubuntu"--left 
> over from last september when I had to give up on Ubuntu because it 
> wouldn't get the screen resolution right? Why is it still showing 
> these old boot options when all that stuff has been deleted?
>
> Trying to do this on Lenovo X120e with AMD E-350 CPU.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> PS--the Evolution people recently gave me grief for running an old 
> version of Fedora and thus of Evo. This is why I hadn't upgraded--I 
> knew there'd be crazy snafus and  I'd end up having to spend several 
> days trying to get the upgrade to work.
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

Well I was able to delete the references to the old fedora and ubuntu by 
going into BIOS setup. I also tried switching Legacy Boot Priority from 
UEFI to Legacy, but that didn't help: still nothing when i try to boot 
from the F17 DVD.  Time to start a new download of it (on my Win 
box...). Maybe burning it there will somehow turn out better.

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 17:47:38 2012
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 17:47:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>

Installation is where I always have drama with Fedora.
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Mon Sep 24 18:46:59 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:46:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>

On 9/24/2012 5:47 PM, Steve Romanow wrote:
> Installation is where I always have drama with Fedora.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
Progress! I downloaded the live CD (to Win 7) and burned its image with 
ImgBurn. That didn't work either when I just let it try to boot--reached 
a "Operating system not found" message. So I went back to "Choose 
temporary startup device" and selected the Sony opt drive from there. At 
least now I'm booted into the live F17. Will get back to it later to see 
if the installation goes OK from here. Also will first check what 
happens which I switch Legacy Boot Priority back to UEFI.

Anybody have any insight which priority option I should be using (Legacy 
or UEFI)?

Stay tuned.
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Sep 24 19:57:43 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:57:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120924235743.GA14751@mint>

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 05:47:38PM -0400, Steve Romanow wrote:
> Installation is where I always have drama with Fedora.

Is there something inherent in RPM-based distros that prevent
incremental updating similar to Debian?  Not a troll; serious question.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Here is the test to find whether your mission on earth is finished: If
you're alive, it isn't.
Richard Bach, writer (b. 1936)

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Mon Sep 24 20:49:42 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <20120924235743.GA14751@mint>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20120924235743.GA14751@mint>
Message-ID: <5060FFA6.7000500@researchintegration.org>

On 9/24/2012 7:57 PM, John-Thomas Richards wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 05:47:38PM -0400, Steve Romanow wrote:
>> Installation is where I always have drama with Fedora.
> Is there something inherent in RPM-based distros that prevent
> incremental updating similar to Debian?  Not a troll; serious question.
It's supposed to work.  But my experience is limited, as I tend to put 
off updating till I need something radical. The Fedora "preupdate" is 
supposed to do all the downloading while you do your regular work on the 
computer and then do the upgrade on the next reboot.  But for some 
reason it didn't work in my case.

The reason I'm with Fedora now is that a year ago I couldn't get Ubuntu 
to work on my new Lenovo and I think I had problems with SUSE also.  All 
those problems, I think, had to do with the confusion around how to boot 
using UEFI. For example, it took several days of pain before I found out 
I needed a FAT 16 partition for UEFI booting....  Starting Dec 2011 
LinJourn had a several-part series on UEFI that showed too many 
complexities, possibilities and variations for me to want to hassle with 
trying to get clear about. And then there's the whole issue about Win 8 
and locking out other OSs...

Progress report: the F17 Live CD booted fine after I switched the Legacy 
Boot Priority back to UEFI...  Now we'll see whether it installs OK.

EB

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Tue Sep 25 11:34:43 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:34:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] problem with tracker
Message-ID: <5061CF13.6020809@researchintegration.org>

I'm copying my home directory stuff from an rdiff-backup backup to my 
new Fedora 17 installation. (cp ar * /home/eric). A bit into the process 
this problem warning showed up:

"A problem in the tracker-0.14.2-1.fc17 package has been detected."

I gather that tracker is some sort of indexing program.

Will this problem mess up my cp process?

Thanks.
EB

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Tue Sep 25 11:53:49 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:53:49 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] problem with tracker
In-Reply-To: <5061CF13.6020809@researchintegration.org>
References: <5061CF13.6020809@researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <5061D38D.3020708@researchintegration.org>

On 9/25/2012 11:34 AM, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> I'm copying my home directory stuff from an rdiff-backup backup to my 
> new Fedora 17 installation. (cp ar * /home/eric). A bit into the 
> process this problem warning showed up:
>
> "A problem in the tracker-0.14.2-1.fc17 package has been detected."
>
> I gather that tracker is some sort of indexing program.
>
> Will this problem mess up my cp process?
>
> Thanks.
> EB
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
cp seems to have gone ok. At least one thing has gone right in this upgrade.

From ajabma at chartermi.net  Tue Sep 25 13:33:16 2012
From: ajabma at chartermi.net (Alan)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:33:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] One day Job opening this Friday
Message-ID: <1348594396.9820.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Got a call from a head hunter looking for people in Grand Rapids for
Friday only.
Thought I'd pass it on.

            ------------------------------- 

At least 1 year experience as PC Tech (A+ is a huge plus!)
Able to lift 50 pounds
$14/hour
Available all day THIS FRIDAY! (9/28)

Jessica Barwinski
Recruiter
Insight Global, Inc.
6250 N River Road, Suite 10-300
Rosemont, IL 60018
(847) 298-1180 Office
(847) 823-0886 Fax
IGI Dial: 3081


From ebever at researchintegration.org  Wed Sep 26 05:55:32 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 05:55:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2012-09-24 at 18:46 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> On 9/24/2012 5:47 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: 
> > Installation is where I always have drama with Fedora. 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> Progress! I downloaded the live CD (to Win 7) and burned its image
> with ImgBurn. That didn't work either when I just let it try to
> boot--reached a "Operating system not found" message. So I went back
> to "Choose temporary startup device" and selected the Sony opt drive
> from there. At least now I'm booted into the live F17. Will get back
> to it later to see if the installation goes OK from here. Also will
> first check what happens which I switch Legacy Boot Priority back to
> UEFI.  
> 
> Anybody have any insight which priority option I should be using
> (Legacy or UEFI)?
> 
> Stay tuned.
Update: I was able to complete the upgrade from the Fedora 17 live cd. A
real hassle, though, needing to do a fresh install. Evolution in
particular is a pain. After restoring my home directory, I opened
Evolution, which then proceeded, as nearly as I can tell, with
overwriting my old Evo data in .local/share/evolution. So I had to
re-copy all of that manually. A real pain, particularly when Evo didn't
want to recognize my calendar and contacts. I finally got it to
recognize the calendar stuff by using the Import Individual File option,
selecting the calendar.ics that was already in ...evolution/calendar. 

But no luck with contacts. For some reason Evo doesn't seem to recognize
the addressbook.db file and won't even let me import it with the Import
Individual File option.

Does anyone know what I can do to get my contacts re-installed? I think
maybe Evo switched from some other DB format to SQLite. But how do I
convert the old addressbook.db?

Thanks.


From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 11:30:22 2012
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:30:22 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] No GRLUG Social This Week
Message-ID: <CAOPHfB3Yn+3_MkidrZXifg7Nt5kRT-SuCVpAeDcAv++909GJ0A@mail.gmail.com>

This is a reminder that there is no GRLUG Social this week. You should
go to the WMLUG meeting on Thursday to get your Linux fix this week.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:  <president at wmlug.org>
Date: Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 9:04 PM
Subject: September WMLUG Meeting
To: president at wmlug.org


Greetings,

This week Thursday, 9/27, is the next WMLUG meeting where Tad Gilliam
is going to demo Peppermint OS for us.

As usual, we will be meeting at New Horizons in room 1 at 6 pm.  The
address is 630 Kenmoor Ave SE, Suite 201, Grand Rapids MI 49546.

Snacks and pop will be provided.  Please let us know if you plan on
attending.  Note:  If you get there after 6:30 and the doors are
locked, please call my cell at 616-295-5168 so we can let you in.

Thanks,

Pat

Patrick TenHoopen
President - West Michigan Linux Users Group
http://www.wmlug.org
president at wmlug.org
ptenhoopen at gmail.com
+ptenhoopen on Google+
ptenhoopen on Twitter
616-295-5168


-- 
 Ben Rousch
   brousch at gmail.com
   http://clusterbleep.net/

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Wed Sep 26 13:38:07 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:38:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
 <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 05:55 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: 
> Update: I was able to complete the upgrade from the Fedora 17 live cd. A
> real hassle, though, needing to do a fresh install. Evolution in
> particular is a pain. After restoring my home directory, I opened
> Evolution, which then proceeded, as nearly as I can tell, with
> overwriting my old Evo data in .local/share/evolution. So I had to
> re-copy all of that manually. A real pain, particularly when Evo didn't
> want to recognize my calendar and contacts. I finally got it to
> recognize the calendar stuff by using the Import Individual File option,
> selecting the calendar.ics that was already in ...evolution/calendar. 

> Does anyone know what I can do to get my contacts re-installed? I think
> maybe Evo switched from some other DB format to SQLite. But how do I
> convert the old addressbook.db?

Yes, Evolution changed quite some time ago to use the XDG spec for
storing data.  It (along with everyone else) also left BDB in favor of
SQLite.
<http://library.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.2/data-storage.html.en>

But an upgrade does not overwrite data, as the data gets recreates in a
different place.  The evolution@ list is probably a good place to ask.
<https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list>
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Wed Sep 26 14:10:58 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 14:10:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
 <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>
Message-ID: <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 13:38 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 05:55 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: 
> > Update: I was able to complete the upgrade from the Fedora 17 live cd. A
> > real hassle, though, needing to do a fresh install. Evolution in
> > particular is a pain. After restoring my home directory, I opened
> > Evolution, which then proceeded, as nearly as I can tell, with
> > overwriting my old Evo data in .local/share/evolution. So I had to
> > re-copy all of that manually. A real pain, particularly when Evo didn't
> > want to recognize my calendar and contacts. I finally got it to
> > recognize the calendar stuff by using the Import Individual File option,
> > selecting the calendar.ics that was already in ...evolution/calendar. 
> 
> > Does anyone know what I can do to get my contacts re-installed? I think
> > maybe Evo switched from some other DB format to SQLite. But how do I
> > convert the old addressbook.db?
> 
> Yes, Evolution changed quite some time ago to use the XDG spec for
> storing data.  It (along with everyone else) also left BDB in favor of
> SQLite.
> <http://library.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.2/data-storage.html.en>
> 
> But an upgrade does not overwrite data, as the data gets recreates in a
> different place.  The evolution@ list is probably a good place to ask.
> <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list>

Unfortunately, as I learned last year, the people on the list are pretty
snotty about helping anyone who doesn't have an official Evo backup and
relied instead on an rdiff-backup. (<rant> E.g., they said, "Of course,
you're not supposed to be messing with hidden file anyway."--First time
I head that in 10 years of working with Linux. And I don't think I've
seen any other application that requires you to use their backup and
doesn't maintain backward compatibility with older file formats. There's
certainly nothing in the help documents that informs the user of this.
</rant>)

I thought I had muddled through last year and gotten everything sorted
out, but apparently the contacts files did not get updated and so now I
need a way to convert the old addressbook.db to the new sqlite format.

EB


From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 14:20:58 2012
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 11:20:58 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
 <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CALL8gRb-mwvNTQc7Pg8+zctgN6VabJyze2VQx7p5WzFuLH_T2w@mail.gmail.com>

Mirrors my experience reporting a Nautilus bug over IRC and through
the official Fedora bug tracker.  "Don't use Nautilus" was the
response.  Awesome.  Apparently fixing bugs in the DE installed by
default is too much work.

--tim

From lvl at omnitec.net  Wed Sep 26 14:51:55 2012
From: lvl at omnitec.net (L. V. Lammert)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:51:55 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Memory leak
Message-ID: <201209261851.q8QIpjoS015072@Mail.omnitec.net>

Been having problems with a server blocking (i.e. %wa > 90%), .. I 
rebooted it this AM and it's back to normal!

Memory Usage is now < 1GB (2GB physical, 4GB swap), where last night 
it was > 3GB total! As all of the processes are fairly static (it's a 
Nagios box), with some reverse ssh tunnels and a miniscule MySQL database.

Does anyone know of a way to get more information about where the 
leak is occurring, if that is indeed the problem?

	Thanks!

	Lee


From don.ellis at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 16:07:37 2012
From: don.ellis at gmail.com (Don Ellis)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:07:37 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Memory leak
In-Reply-To: <201209261851.q8QIpjoS015072@Mail.omnitec.net>
References: <201209261851.q8QIpjoS015072@Mail.omnitec.net>
Message-ID: <CALKyAevo2G6-B7rykotN7xcTHo6hrmKgjEaEs0R+o9bVfQcBHg@mail.gmail.com>

I think one thing we'd like (Lee & I) is some simple recipes for
people with less than massive experience at process monitoring. We
hear the terms mentioned, with "use this tool or that tool" but no
guidelines for some common conditions to look for. Are there specific
symptoms for specific kinds of pathology that would give hints that
something is not as it should be?

One caveat I see in text on this subject is: look for unexpected
results, as some process will be expected to show these conditions,
and can be ignored. Other process should not do that, and these
conditions would indicate these processes are outside normal expected
range. I guess part of this is measuring past history of every process
and watching for certain changes (which ones and how much?). There are
probably monitoring tools for this - I hope they are relatively easy
to set up, with standard package management files. Hassling with
varied system configurations & tools can really increase time
investment when done across multiple platforms.

--Don Ellis


On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:51 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> Been having problems with a server blocking (i.e. %wa > 90%), .. I rebooted
> it this AM and it's back to normal!
>
> Memory Usage is now < 1GB (2GB physical, 4GB swap), where last night it was
>> 3GB total! As all of the processes are fairly static (it's a Nagios box),
> with some reverse ssh tunnels and a miniscule MySQL database.
>
> Does anyone know of a way to get more information about where the leak is
> occurring, if that is indeed the problem?
>
>         Thanks!
>
>         Lee

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Wed Sep 26 18:32:28 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:32:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Memory leak
In-Reply-To: <CALKyAevo2G6-B7rykotN7xcTHo6hrmKgjEaEs0R+o9bVfQcBHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201209261851.q8QIpjoS015072@Mail.omnitec.net>
 <CALKyAevo2G6-B7rykotN7xcTHo6hrmKgjEaEs0R+o9bVfQcBHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1348698748.3203.7.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 15:07 -0500, Don Ellis wrote: 
> I think one thing we'd like (Lee & I) is some simple recipes for
> people with less than massive experience at process monitoring. We
> hear the terms mentioned, with "use this tool or that tool" but no
> guidelines for some common conditions to look for. Are there specific
> symptoms for specific kinds of pathology that would give hints that
> something is not as it should be?
> One caveat I see in text on this subject is: look for unexpected
> results, as some process will be expected to show these conditions,
> and can be ignored. Other process should not do that, and these
> conditions would indicate these processes are outside normal expected
> range. 

What you describe is impossible to provide.

I already posted several suggestions and queries to which you did no
respond
<http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/2012-September/012598.html>.

There is also <http://www.wmmi.net/documents/Debugging2012.pdf> - you
should go through that.

> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:51 PM, L. V. Lammert <lvl at omnitec.net> wrote:
> > Been having problems with a server blocking (i.e. %wa > 90%), .. I rebooted
> > it this AM and it's back to normal!
> > Memory Usage is now < 1GB (2GB physical, 4GB swap), where last night it was
> >> 3GB total!

What does an output of "free -t" look like?  If you just run "top" you
can sort by memory utilization [if this is actually a memory leak].
Just "M" will sort my Resident Memory.  The "dstat" previously
recommended [and ignored] will show you if paging is occurring;  the
more commonly available vmstat command will tell you same thing as well.

vmstat -a 5

> As all of the processes are fairly static (it's a Nagios box),
> > with some reverse ssh tunnels and a miniscule MySQL database.
> > Does anyone know of a way to get more information about where the leak is
> > occurring, if that is indeed the problem?

If it is really a user level memory leak the culprit will be obvious.
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From bob.kline at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 18:50:52 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:50:52 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
 <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAFOq4EJNHwAt-41Xw7-jjZ+OYAK=c3Wb0dDABcr1QZ08bCAG2w@mail.gmail.com>

The list usually has one or two high-strung,
nervous types who believe everyone else is
an idiot.  These come and go.  I wouldn't
extend this to the whole list however. It's
often the case in real world that one has to
bare the neck a little, in a show of submission,
before a stronger member helps a weaker one.
But more often than not one does get good
help and suggestions here, even if there can
be a small price - maybe just a small lecture.

   -- Bob


On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Eric Beversluis <
ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 13:38 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 05:55 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> > > Update: I was able to complete the upgrade from the Fedora 17 live cd.
> A
> > > real hassle, though, needing to do a fresh install. Evolution in
> > > particular is a pain. After restoring my home directory, I opened
> > > Evolution, which then proceeded, as nearly as I can tell, with
> > > overwriting my old Evo data in .local/share/evolution. So I had to
> > > re-copy all of that manually. A real pain, particularly when Evo didn't
> > > want to recognize my calendar and contacts. I finally got it to
> > > recognize the calendar stuff by using the Import Individual File
> option,
> > > selecting the calendar.ics that was already in ...evolution/calendar.
> >
> > > Does anyone know what I can do to get my contacts re-installed? I think
> > > maybe Evo switched from some other DB format to SQLite. But how do I
> > > convert the old addressbook.db?
> >
> > Yes, Evolution changed quite some time ago to use the XDG spec for
> > storing data.  It (along with everyone else) also left BDB in favor of
> > SQLite.
> > <http://library.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.2/data-storage.html.en>
> >
> > But an upgrade does not overwrite data, as the data gets recreates in a
> > different place.  The evolution@ list is probably a good place to ask.
> > <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list>
>
> Unfortunately, as I learned last year, the people on the list are pretty
> snotty about helping anyone who doesn't have an official Evo backup and
> relied instead on an rdiff-backup. (<rant> E.g., they said, "Of course,
> you're not supposed to be messing with hidden file anyway."--First time
> I head that in 10 years of working with Linux. And I don't think I've
> seen any other application that requires you to use their backup and
> doesn't maintain backward compatibility with older file formats. There's
> certainly nothing in the help documents that informs the user of this.
> </rant>)
>
> I thought I had muddled through last year and gotten everything sorted
> out, but apparently the contacts files did not get updated and so now I
> need a way to convert the old addressbook.db to the new sqlite format.
>
> EB
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 19:05:47 2012
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:05:47 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4EJNHwAt-41Xw7-jjZ+OYAK=c3Wb0dDABcr1QZ08bCAG2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
 <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <CAFOq4EJNHwAt-41Xw7-jjZ+OYAK=c3Wb0dDABcr1QZ08bCAG2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALL8gRY2Cwe1VR2EX9Bb9bMJ8TVOiKe-rVX_qsZZ_YuYHDYaiA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> The list usually has one or two high-strung,
> nervous types who believe everyone else is
> an idiot.  These come and go.  I wouldn't
> extend this to the whole list however. It's
> often the case in real world that one has to
> bare the neck a little, in a show of submission,
> before a stronger member helps a weaker one.
> But more often than not one does get good
> help and suggestions here, even if there can
> be a small price - maybe just a small lecture.

Pretty sure I paid my small price sometime between installing redhat
(not RHEL!) 5.1 and maintaining my first FOSS project.  Despite a
"Sorry to bother you guys, but I've googled X, Y, and Z, tried A, B,
and C, and here's what I'm seeing on my end, with logs.  I think it's
a bug." I got the same treatment.

The user-facing part of the Fedora development community is pretty hostile.

It gives me a sad.

--tim

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 19:12:35 2012
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:12:35 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <CALL8gRY2Cwe1VR2EX9Bb9bMJ8TVOiKe-rVX_qsZZ_YuYHDYaiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
 <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <CAFOq4EJNHwAt-41Xw7-jjZ+OYAK=c3Wb0dDABcr1QZ08bCAG2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALL8gRY2Cwe1VR2EX9Bb9bMJ8TVOiKe-rVX_qsZZ_YuYHDYaiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALL8gRZdXkR49L8C+DAYMXRgw6_LXwMp6w0wWwJ__19F4t4EKg@mail.gmail.com>

To be clear, I don't know why they're hostile.  Or how to fix it.  But
I know that they are, and that it's a problem.

--tim

From casey at grlug.org  Thu Sep 27 06:00:58 2012
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 06:00:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
Message-ID: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>

Hey GRLUG,

The GRMakers are having a meeting.
This Saturday Sept 29
8-10PM
@ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison
http://grmakers.com/

WHAT IS A MAKERSPACE?

A makerspace or hackerspace a location where people with common
interests, often in computers, technology, science, digital or
electronic art (but also in many other realms) can meet, socialise
and/or collaborate. makerspaces can be viewed as open community labs
incorporating elements of machine shops, workshops and/or studios
where hackers can come together to share resources and knowledge to
build and make things.

A makerspace is something different to everyone who uses it. Whether
your interests are in electronics, knitting, machining, scrapbooking,
woodworking, ceramics, crafts, sewing or anything else that involves
creating something, there.s something in a makerspace for you. We will
be governed by our members, so the members decide what.s in the space.

You will find a vibrant, active community of local makers who are just
as interested in creating things as you are.

Please invite everyone you know!!

Casey DuBois
616-808-6942
casey at grlug.org

From awilliam at whitemice.org  Thu Sep 27 07:42:28 2012
From: awilliam at whitemice.org (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:42:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] problem with tracker
In-Reply-To: <5061CF13.6020809@researchintegration.org>
References: <5061CF13.6020809@researchintegration.org>
Message-ID: <1348746148.3203.8.camel@linux-nysu.site>

On Tue, 2012-09-25 at 11:34 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: 
> I'm copying my home directory stuff from an rdiff-backup backup to my 
> new Fedora 17 installation. (cp ar * /home/eric). A bit into the process 
> this problem warning showed up:
> "A problem in the tracker-0.14.2-1.fc17 package has been detected."
> I gather that tracker is some sort of indexing program.

Yes.

> Will this problem mess up my cp process?

No.
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From collink at kkmfg.com  Thu Sep 27 08:58:32 2012
From: collink at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 08:58:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm somewhat curious as to the number of required makerspaces in Grand
Rapids. After all, The Geek Group seems poised to open soon and they
basically fit the bill as a very large makerspace. I have to wonder if
pooling resources wouldn't be the best course of action.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> Hey GRLUG,
>
> The GRMakers are having a meeting.
> This Saturday Sept 29
> 8-10PM
> @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison
> http://grmakers.com/
>
> WHAT IS A MAKERSPACE?
>
> A makerspace or hackerspace a location where people with common
> interests, often in computers, technology, science, digital or
> electronic art (but also in many other realms) can meet, socialise
> and/or collaborate. makerspaces can be viewed as open community labs
> incorporating elements of machine shops, workshops and/or studios
> where hackers can come together to share resources and knowledge to
> build and make things.
>
> A makerspace is something different to everyone who uses it. Whether
> your interests are in electronics, knitting, machining, scrapbooking,
> woodworking, ceramics, crafts, sewing or anything else that involves
> creating something, there.s something in a makerspace for you. We will
> be governed by our members, so the members decide what.s in the space.
>
> You will find a vibrant, active community of local makers who are just
> as interested in creating things as you are.
>
> Please invite everyone you know!!
>
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 09:09:03 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:09:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiDr6DN2zi_0TxKahmzana_CqhHcbj7miZmEVqLusaM43w@mail.gmail.com>

The Geek Group is Boden's thing, and it's run the way he wants to run
it, with the social atmosphere he wants it to have. There's plenty of
room in Grand Rapids for other groups with their own specialties and
atmospheres. It's very similar to Linux distros, actually;
disagreements within a distro's community, and between community and
management, often lead to a forking of the distribution to produce
something different. Sometimes the fork replaces the original,
sometimes it dies off, and sometimes they feed each other.

That last is really the best outcome of all possible worlds.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Collin Kidder <collink at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> I'm somewhat curious as to the number of required makerspaces in Grand
> Rapids. After all, The Geek Group seems poised to open soon and they
> basically fit the bill as a very large makerspace. I have to wonder if
> pooling resources wouldn't be the best course of action.
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>> Hey GRLUG,
>>
>> The GRMakers are having a meeting.
>> This Saturday Sept 29
>> 8-10PM
>> @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison
>> http://grmakers.com/
>>
>> WHAT IS A MAKERSPACE?
>>
>> A makerspace or hackerspace a location where people with common
>> interests, often in computers, technology, science, digital or
>> electronic art (but also in many other realms) can meet, socialise
>> and/or collaborate. makerspaces can be viewed as open community labs
>> incorporating elements of machine shops, workshops and/or studios
>> where hackers can come together to share resources and knowledge to
>> build and make things.
>>
>> A makerspace is something different to everyone who uses it. Whether
>> your interests are in electronics, knitting, machining, scrapbooking,
>> woodworking, ceramics, crafts, sewing or anything else that involves
>> creating something, there.s something in a makerspace for you. We will
>> be governed by our members, so the members decide what.s in the space.
>>
>> You will find a vibrant, active community of local makers who are just
>> as interested in creating things as you are.
>>
>> Please invite everyone you know!!
>>
>> Casey DuBois
>> 616-808-6942
>> casey at grlug.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
:wq

From collink at kkmfg.com  Thu Sep 27 09:31:01 2012
From: collink at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:31:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiDr6DN2zi_0TxKahmzana_CqhHcbj7miZmEVqLusaM43w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiDr6DN2zi_0TxKahmzana_CqhHcbj7miZmEVqLusaM43w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABBbThD6wPJrDD2nQJgySSLqC7u6xCtQBbCmJx0Z7gpMG=iicg@mail.gmail.com>

What you say is true. However, my point was that, barring a conflict
of some sort (personalities, ideology, etc) it is almost always better
to pool resources and not reinvent the wheel. This is also true of
linux. Having multiple distros is well and good but having too many
over nit-picky differences is silly. Having most people pick one
distro is nice because they can all help each other.

However, I agree, two is not too many makerspaces. I was just curious
as to whether there needed to be two. It seems to me that that
question should be the very first thing anyone asks before creating a
fork: does there need to be a fork? ;)

Personally, I think that the mention of Chris (Boden) might suggest
that you've met him or talked with him before. He's an interesting
guy.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Geek Group is Boden's thing, and it's run the way he wants to run
> it, with the social atmosphere he wants it to have. There's plenty of
> room in Grand Rapids for other groups with their own specialties and
> atmospheres. It's very similar to Linux distros, actually;
> disagreements within a distro's community, and between community and
> management, often lead to a forking of the distribution to produce
> something different. Sometimes the fork replaces the original,
> sometimes it dies off, and sometimes they feed each other.
>
> That last is really the best outcome of all possible worlds.
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Collin Kidder <collink at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>> I'm somewhat curious as to the number of required makerspaces in Grand
>> Rapids. After all, The Geek Group seems poised to open soon and they
>> basically fit the bill as a very large makerspace. I have to wonder if
>> pooling resources wouldn't be the best course of action.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>> Hey GRLUG,
>>>
>>> The GRMakers are having a meeting.
>>> This Saturday Sept 29
>>> 8-10PM
>>> @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison
>>> http://grmakers.com/
>>>
>>> WHAT IS A MAKERSPACE?
>>>
>>> A makerspace or hackerspace a location where people with common
>>> interests, often in computers, technology, science, digital or
>>> electronic art (but also in many other realms) can meet, socialise
>>> and/or collaborate. makerspaces can be viewed as open community labs
>>> incorporating elements of machine shops, workshops and/or studios
>>> where hackers can come together to share resources and knowledge to
>>> build and make things.
>>>
>>> A makerspace is something different to everyone who uses it. Whether
>>> your interests are in electronics, knitting, machining, scrapbooking,
>>> woodworking, ceramics, crafts, sewing or anything else that involves
>>> creating something, there.s something in a makerspace for you. We will
>>> be governed by our members, so the members decide what.s in the space.
>>>
>>> You will find a vibrant, active community of local makers who are just
>>> as interested in creating things as you are.
>>>
>>> Please invite everyone you know!!
>>>
>>> Casey DuBois
>>> 616-808-6942
>>> casey at grlug.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 09:48:59 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:48:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CABBbThD6wPJrDD2nQJgySSLqC7u6xCtQBbCmJx0Z7gpMG=iicg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiDr6DN2zi_0TxKahmzana_CqhHcbj7miZmEVqLusaM43w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThD6wPJrDD2nQJgySSLqC7u6xCtQBbCmJx0Z7gpMG=iicg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiA1jpWD6GHU1KRwqEKV+ViWpveR76+yMfCxn455xEL6jg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Collin Kidder <collink at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> What you say is true. However, my point was that, barring a conflict
> of some sort (personalities, ideology, etc)

The reason these other groups are forming is _exactly_ conflicts of
personality and ideology.

> it is almost always better
> to pool resources and not reinvent the wheel. This is also true of
> linux. Having multiple distros is well and good but having too many
> over nit-picky differences is silly. Having most people pick one
> distro is nice because they can all help each other.

It also means that where one distro leads, the rest more or less have
to follow for compatibility and maintenance reasons. Witness where
RedHat is going with systemd, or where Canonical is going with
Wayland.

> However, I agree, two is not too many makerspaces. I was just curious
> as to whether there needed to be two. It seems to me that that
> question should be the very first thing anyone asks before creating a
> fork: does there need to be a fork? ;)

This was pretty thoroughly discussed at a GRLUG/makerspace meeting a
few weeks ago. And, yeah, there needs to be a fork.

> Personally, I think that the mention of Chris (Boden) might suggest
> that you've met him or talked with him before. He's an interesting
> guy.

Boden and I do know each other.

Further, everyone involved with these alternate makerspace
environments are trying very hard not to undercut TGG. In fact, I
think it's to everyone's benefit that people who are interested in
makerspaces check out TGG as well as other local makerspaces. People
will go where they're most comfortable, and if they're uncomfortable
in one place, they'll go somewhere else.

-- 
:wq

From uhawl1 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 09:55:33 2012
From: uhawl1 at gmail.com (Joshua Yuhas)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:55:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CABBbThD6wPJrDD2nQJgySSLqC7u6xCtQBbCmJx0Z7gpMG=iicg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiDr6DN2zi_0TxKahmzana_CqhHcbj7miZmEVqLusaM43w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThD6wPJrDD2nQJgySSLqC7u6xCtQBbCmJx0Z7gpMG=iicg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALC3+TkePxJn01-Mtj-eDD+kS3Sb6bAbtO0zLfoE66yYMRviPw@mail.gmail.com>

It certainly is one of those situations where a peering agreement with TGG
wouldn't be viewed negatively what-so-ever.  However, we are not actively
seeking that relationship at this point and that is not a deficit to either
organization.  We have already poked the community to understand if there
is strong enough interest to support a good size maker space and the answer
was a resounding yes.  We will, at this point, provide a different "flavor"
of maker space than the educationally chartered science based non-profit
TGG and will be guided by membership as to what will inhabit the space.  We
know GR can support two or more spaces and, again, collaborative efforts
are not frowned up at all.

-Joshua Yuhas
On Sep 27, 2012 9:31 AM, "Collin Kidder" <collink at kkmfg.com> wrote:

> What you say is true. However, my point was that, barring a conflict
> of some sort (personalities, ideology, etc) it is almost always better
> to pool resources and not reinvent the wheel. This is also true of
> linux. Having multiple distros is well and good but having too many
> over nit-picky differences is silly. Having most people pick one
> distro is nice because they can all help each other.
>
> However, I agree, two is not too many makerspaces. I was just curious
> as to whether there needed to be two. It seems to me that that
> question should be the very first thing anyone asks before creating a
> fork: does there need to be a fork? ;)
>
> Personally, I think that the mention of Chris (Boden) might suggest
> that you've met him or talked with him before. He's an interesting
> guy.
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Geek Group is Boden's thing, and it's run the way he wants to run
> > it, with the social atmosphere he wants it to have. There's plenty of
> > room in Grand Rapids for other groups with their own specialties and
> > atmospheres. It's very similar to Linux distros, actually;
> > disagreements within a distro's community, and between community and
> > management, often lead to a forking of the distribution to produce
> > something different. Sometimes the fork replaces the original,
> > sometimes it dies off, and sometimes they feed each other.
> >
> > That last is really the best outcome of all possible worlds.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Collin Kidder <collink at kkmfg.com>
> wrote:
> >> I'm somewhat curious as to the number of required makerspaces in Grand
> >> Rapids. After all, The Geek Group seems poised to open soon and they
> >> basically fit the bill as a very large makerspace. I have to wonder if
> >> pooling resources wouldn't be the best course of action.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> >>> Hey GRLUG,
> >>>
> >>> The GRMakers are having a meeting.
> >>> This Saturday Sept 29
> >>> 8-10PM
> >>> @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison
> >>> http://grmakers.com/
> >>>
> >>> WHAT IS A MAKERSPACE?
> >>>
> >>> A makerspace or hackerspace a location where people with common
> >>> interests, often in computers, technology, science, digital or
> >>> electronic art (but also in many other realms) can meet, socialise
> >>> and/or collaborate. makerspaces can be viewed as open community labs
> >>> incorporating elements of machine shops, workshops and/or studios
> >>> where hackers can come together to share resources and knowledge to
> >>> build and make things.
> >>>
> >>> A makerspace is something different to everyone who uses it. Whether
> >>> your interests are in electronics, knitting, machining, scrapbooking,
> >>> woodworking, ceramics, crafts, sewing or anything else that involves
> >>> creating something, there.s something in a makerspace for you. We will
> >>> be governed by our members, so the members decide what.s in the space.
> >>>
> >>> You will find a vibrant, active community of local makers who are just
> >>> as interested in creating things as you are.
> >>>
> >>> Please invite everyone you know!!
> >>>
> >>> Casey DuBois
> >>> 616-808-6942
> >>> casey at grlug.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> grlug mailing list
> >>> grlug at grlug.org
> >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Thu Sep 27 10:05:35 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:05:35 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Could not initialize application's security component
	(Firefox)
Message-ID: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I'm trying to re-open Firefox and am getting this strange message. Any
idea what it means or what I should do about it? Firefox 15.01 on Fedora
17.

"Could not initialize the application's security component. The most
likely cause is problems with files in your application's profile
directory. Please check that this directory has no read/write
restrictions and your hard disk is not full or close to full. It is
recommended that you exit the application and fix the problem. If you
continue to use this session, you might see incorrect application
behaviour when accessing security features."


From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 10:16:30 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:16:30 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Could not initialize application's security component
	(Firefox)
In-Reply-To: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiCaO+T=xVXTHT+TEjRCX9+9pTKf4f94ct5qFq13kxiPBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Eric Beversluis
<ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> I'm trying to re-open Firefox and am getting this strange message. Any
> idea what it means or what I should do about it? Firefox 15.01 on Fedora
> 17.
>
> "Could not initialize the application's security component. The most
> likely cause is problems with files in your application's profile
> directory. Please check that this directory has no read/write
> restrictions and your hard disk is not full or close to full. It is
> recommended that you exit the application and fix the problem. If you
> continue to use this session, you might see incorrect application
> behaviour when accessing security features."

Follow the instructions. First, make sure your disk isn't full.

df -h

Make sure that ~/.mozilla and subdirectories are accessible to you and only you.

1) Close firefox
2) find ~/.mozilla -type d -exec chmod 0700 '{}' \; # directories
should be executable.
3) find ~/.mozilla -type f -exec chmod 0600 '{}' \; # files should not
be executable.
4) Start firefox

If the problem still persists, maybe your filesystem is read-only.

mount

If the problem _still_ persists, are you sure you own the files in question?

ls -l ~/.mozilla

-- 
:wq

From kelly.vanderwell at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 10:30:26 2012
From: kelly.vanderwell at gmail.com (Kelly Vanderwell)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:30:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50646302.2050602@gmail.com>

If you were to pool resources with Chris Boden and TGG the resources 
would become bodens, and bodens only.  he doesn't like to share.  he 
doesn't like to do things any other way than his way and his way only.  
I"m not being negative. I"m only telling the truth.  After being a 
volunteer there for more than 1.5 years, i'm done with them and they 
won't acknowledge i exist.

On 09/27/2012 08:58 AM, Collin Kidder wrote:
> I'm somewhat curious as to the number of required makerspaces in Grand
> Rapids. After all, The Geek Group seems poised to open soon and they
> basically fit the bill as a very large makerspace. I have to wonder if
> pooling resources wouldn't be the best course of action.
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 6:00 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>> Hey GRLUG,
>>
>> The GRMakers are having a meeting.
>> This Saturday Sept 29
>> 8-10PM
>> @ The Warehouse, 112 Baldwin St., Jenison
>> http://grmakers.com/
>>
>> WHAT IS A MAKERSPACE?
>>
>> A makerspace or hackerspace a location where people with common
>> interests, often in computers, technology, science, digital or
>> electronic art (but also in many other realms) can meet, socialise
>> and/or collaborate. makerspaces can be viewed as open community labs
>> incorporating elements of machine shops, workshops and/or studios
>> where hackers can come together to share resources and knowledge to
>> build and make things.
>>
>> A makerspace is something different to everyone who uses it. Whether
>> your interests are in electronics, knitting, machining, scrapbooking,
>> woodworking, ceramics, crafts, sewing or anything else that involves
>> creating something, there.s something in a makerspace for you. We will
>> be governed by our members, so the members decide what.s in the space.
>>
>> You will find a vibrant, active community of local makers who are just
>> as interested in creating things as you are.
>>
>> Please invite everyone you know!!
>>
>> Casey DuBois
>> 616-808-6942
>> casey at grlug.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From collink at kkmfg.com  Thu Sep 27 10:47:20 2012
From: collink at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:47:20 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <50646302.2050602@gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <50646302.2050602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABBbThBDs+dQZQ1D5gEjtSvf4UeMoWD+UH6QXdeM2Bdew=cTVg@mail.gmail.com>

I said he was an interesting guy and that Michael must have met him to
have said that a fork was necessary. I had wanted to leave it at that
rather than say anything particularly disparaging. Yes, I do realize
that he's not the easiest person to deal with and that that fact might
be what necessitates a fork to another makerspace. For what it's worth
I whole heartedly welcome the GRMakers space and movement! It sounds
awesome, I was just making sure that enough people had a good reason
for not just going to TGG. It would appear that my suspicions about
some things are not totally unfounded.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Kelly Vanderwell
<kelly.vanderwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you were to pool resources with Chris Boden and TGG the resources would
> become bodens, and bodens only.  he doesn't like to share.  he doesn't like
> to do things any other way than his way and his way only.  I"m not being
> negative. I"m only telling the truth.  After being a volunteer there for
> more than 1.5 years, i'm done with them and they won't acknowledge i exist.
>
>

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Thu Sep 27 11:09:23 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:09:23 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Could not initialize application's security component
 (Firefox)
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiCaO+T=xVXTHT+TEjRCX9+9pTKf4f94ct5qFq13kxiPBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <CA+czFiCaO+T=xVXTHT+TEjRCX9+9pTKf4f94ct5qFq13kxiPBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1348758563.1670.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I can check those things, but why would any of them have changed since
the last time I opened Firefox?

On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 10:16 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Eric Beversluis
> <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> > I'm trying to re-open Firefox and am getting this strange message. Any
> > idea what it means or what I should do about it? Firefox 15.01 on Fedora
> > 17.
> >
> > "Could not initialize the application's security component. The most
> > likely cause is problems with files in your application's profile
> > directory. Please check that this directory has no read/write
> > restrictions and your hard disk is not full or close to full. It is
> > recommended that you exit the application and fix the problem. If you
> > continue to use this session, you might see incorrect application
> > behaviour when accessing security features."
> 
> Follow the instructions. First, make sure your disk isn't full.
> 
> df -h

Plenty of room:
rootfs                   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
devtmpfs                1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /dev
tmpfs                   1.8G  244K  1.8G   1% /dev/shm
tmpfs                   1.8G  1.4M  1.8G   1% /run
/dev/mapper/vg-lv_root   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /media
/dev/sda2               485M   63M  397M  14% /boot
/dev/sda1               200M  284K  200M   1% /boot/efi
/dev/mapper/vg-lv_home  239G   25G  202G  11% /home

> 
> Make sure that ~/.mozilla and subdirectories are accessible to you and only you.
> 
> 1) Close firefox
> 2) find ~/.mozilla -type d -exec chmod 0700 '{}' \; # directories
> should be executable.
> 3) find ~/.mozilla -type f -exec chmod 0600 '{}' \; # files should not
> be executable.

> 4) Start firefox
> 
> If the problem still persists, maybe your filesystem is read-only.
> 
> mount

Looks like it's all rw. And I've been writing all kinds of other stuff
to the fs.
> 
> If the problem _still_ persists, are you sure you own the files in question?
> 
> ls -l ~/.mozilla
> 
Yup.

I wonder if it has to do with turning off SELinux? I had to do that as
it was messing with my WordPress functionality and I don't have time to
learn SELinux now. I don't have time to be messing with this either, but
I shouldn't have to be. I've shut off SELinux in the past without any
trouble.

These are the instructions I found online:
cp /et/selinux/config  /etc/selinux/config.bak
sed -i s/SELINUX=enforcing/SELINUX=disables/g  /etc/etc/selinux/config

Thanks.
EB


From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 11:15:42 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:15:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Could not initialize application's security component
	(Firefox)
In-Reply-To: <1348758563.1670.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <CA+czFiCaO+T=xVXTHT+TEjRCX9+9pTKf4f94ct5qFq13kxiPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348758563.1670.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiCsYKZwDsX_htaj_vaAWqVjWnDB0gGwTs0AcZD7KzMDUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Eric Beversluis
<ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> I can check those things, but why would any of them have changed since
> the last time I opened Firefox?

I once had my configuration puke on me because I moved my /home from a
Debian-based system to a RH-based system. On Debian, normal-user
accounts started at UID 1000. On RH, they started at 500.

Similar problems can occur if you're using an incorrectly-configured
(or have incorrectly joined) username mapping system, such as the
default Samba/AD service configuration, or a funky LDAP scenario.

>
> On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 10:16 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Eric Beversluis
>> <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
>> > I'm trying to re-open Firefox and am getting this strange message. Any
>> > idea what it means or what I should do about it? Firefox 15.01 on Fedora
>> > 17.
>> >
>> > "Could not initialize the application's security component. The most
>> > likely cause is problems with files in your application's profile
>> > directory. Please check that this directory has no read/write
>> > restrictions and your hard disk is not full or close to full. It is
>> > recommended that you exit the application and fix the problem. If you
>> > continue to use this session, you might see incorrect application
>> > behaviour when accessing security features."
>>
>> Follow the instructions. First, make sure your disk isn't full.
>>
>> df -h
>
> Plenty of room:
> rootfs                   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> devtmpfs                1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /dev
> tmpfs                   1.8G  244K  1.8G   1% /dev/shm
> tmpfs                   1.8G  1.4M  1.8G   1% /run
> /dev/mapper/vg-lv_root   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /media
> /dev/sda2               485M   63M  397M  14% /boot
> /dev/sda1               200M  284K  200M   1% /boot/efi
> /dev/mapper/vg-lv_home  239G   25G  202G  11% /home
>
>>
>> Make sure that ~/.mozilla and subdirectories are accessible to you and only you.
>>
>> 1) Close firefox
>> 2) find ~/.mozilla -type d -exec chmod 0700 '{}' \; # directories
>> should be executable.
>> 3) find ~/.mozilla -type f -exec chmod 0600 '{}' \; # files should not
>> be executable.
>
>> 4) Start firefox
>>
>> If the problem still persists, maybe your filesystem is read-only.
>>
>> mount
>
> Looks like it's all rw. And I've been writing all kinds of other stuff
> to the fs.
>>
>> If the problem _still_ persists, are you sure you own the files in question?
>>
>> ls -l ~/.mozilla
>>
> Yup.
>
> I wonder if it has to do with turning off SELinux? I had to do that as
> it was messing with my WordPress functionality and I don't have time to
> learn SELinux now. I don't have time to be messing with this either, but
> I shouldn't have to be. I've shut off SELinux in the past without any
> trouble.
>
> These are the instructions I found online:
> cp /et/selinux/config  /etc/selinux/config.bak
> sed -i s/SELINUX=enforcing/SELINUX=disables/g  /etc/etc/selinux/config

That's probably the source of your trouble, yeah. And I can't help you
fix it; SELinux isn't something with which I'm good at educated
guesses.

-- 
:wq

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Thu Sep 27 11:16:38 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:16:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Could not initialize application's security component
 (Firefox)
In-Reply-To: <1348758563.1670.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <CA+czFiCaO+T=xVXTHT+TEjRCX9+9pTKf4f94ct5qFq13kxiPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348758563.1670.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1348758998.1670.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>

What is "the application's profile directory"? I looked at profile.ini
in .mozilla/firefox, but that doesn't seem to have anything relevant.
And I don't see a "profile directory" in .mozilla anywhere.

On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 11:09 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> I can check those things, but why would any of them have changed since
> the last time I opened Firefox?
> 
> On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 10:16 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Eric Beversluis
> > <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> > > I'm trying to re-open Firefox and am getting this strange message. Any
> > > idea what it means or what I should do about it? Firefox 15.01 on Fedora
> > > 17.
> > >
> > > "Could not initialize the application's security component. The most
> > > likely cause is problems with files in your application's profile
> > > directory. Please check that this directory has no read/write
> > > restrictions and your hard disk is not full or close to full. It is
> > > recommended that you exit the application and fix the problem. If you
> > > continue to use this session, you might see incorrect application
> > > behaviour when accessing security features."
> > 
> > Follow the instructions. First, make sure your disk isn't full.
> > 
> > df -h
> 
> Plenty of room:
> rootfs                   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> devtmpfs                1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /dev
> tmpfs                   1.8G  244K  1.8G   1% /dev/shm
> tmpfs                   1.8G  1.4M  1.8G   1% /run
> /dev/mapper/vg-lv_root   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /media
> /dev/sda2               485M   63M  397M  14% /boot
> /dev/sda1               200M  284K  200M   1% /boot/efi
> /dev/mapper/vg-lv_home  239G   25G  202G  11% /home
> 
> > 
> > Make sure that ~/.mozilla and subdirectories are accessible to you and only you.
> > 
> > 1) Close firefox
> > 2) find ~/.mozilla -type d -exec chmod 0700 '{}' \; # directories
> > should be executable.
> > 3) find ~/.mozilla -type f -exec chmod 0600 '{}' \; # files should not
> > be executable.
> 
> > 4) Start firefox
> > 
> > If the problem still persists, maybe your filesystem is read-only.
> > 
> > mount
> 
> Looks like it's all rw. And I've been writing all kinds of other stuff
> to the fs.
> > 
> > If the problem _still_ persists, are you sure you own the files in question?
> > 
> > ls -l ~/.mozilla
> > 
> Yup.
> 
> I wonder if it has to do with turning off SELinux? I had to do that as
> it was messing with my WordPress functionality and I don't have time to
> learn SELinux now. I don't have time to be messing with this either, but
> I shouldn't have to be. I've shut off SELinux in the past without any
> trouble.
> 
> These are the instructions I found online:
> cp /et/selinux/config  /etc/selinux/config.bak
> sed -i s/SELINUX=enforcing/SELINUX=disables/g  /etc/etc/selinux/config
> 
> Thanks.
> EB
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From uhawl1 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 11:38:48 2012
From: uhawl1 at gmail.com (Joshua Yuhas)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:38:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CABBbThBDs+dQZQ1D5gEjtSvf4UeMoWD+UH6QXdeM2Bdew=cTVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <50646302.2050602@gmail.com>
 <CABBbThBDs+dQZQ1D5gEjtSvf4UeMoWD+UH6QXdeM2Bdew=cTVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALC3+Tm7+WA6WySSb1SvFR1foWBtfaVZw7ZoQDgyFWLhcckvzA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for your support and input,  Collin, and I look forward to
talking to you if you come this Saturday evening!
On Sep 27, 2012 10:47 AM, "Collin Kidder" <collink at kkmfg.com> wrote:

> I said he was an interesting guy and that Michael must have met him to
> have said that a fork was necessary. I had wanted to leave it at that
> rather than say anything particularly disparaging. Yes, I do realize
> that he's not the easiest person to deal with and that that fact might
> be what necessitates a fork to another makerspace. For what it's worth
> I whole heartedly welcome the GRMakers space and movement! It sounds
> awesome, I was just making sure that enough people had a good reason
> for not just going to TGG. It would appear that my suspicions about
> some things are not totally unfounded.
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Kelly Vanderwell
> <kelly.vanderwell at gmail.com> wrote:
> > If you were to pool resources with Chris Boden and TGG the resources
> would
> > become bodens, and bodens only.  he doesn't like to share.  he doesn't
> like
> > to do things any other way than his way and his way only.  I"m not being
> > negative. I"m only telling the truth.  After being a volunteer there for
> > more than 1.5 years, i'm done with them and they won't acknowledge i
> exist.
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From ebever at researchintegration.org  Thu Sep 27 12:48:05 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:48:05 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Could not initialize application's security component
 (Firefox)
In-Reply-To: <1348758998.1670.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <CA+czFiCaO+T=xVXTHT+TEjRCX9+9pTKf4f94ct5qFq13kxiPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348758563.1670.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348758998.1670.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1348764485.1656.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Well, I went back and restored the original selinux/config file.
Restarted and the computer went through "SELinux targed policy relabel
is required." But this hasn't helped the Firefox problem. 

Next I uninstalled Firefox and re-installed it, restarted Fedora, and still no good. Aaaaaaargh!

On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 11:16 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> What is "the application's profile directory"? I looked at profile.ini
> in .mozilla/firefox, but that doesn't seem to have anything relevant.
> And I don't see a "profile directory" in .mozilla anywhere.
> 
> On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 11:09 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> > I can check those things, but why would any of them have changed since
> > the last time I opened Firefox?
> > 
> > On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 10:16 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Eric Beversluis
> > > <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> > > > I'm trying to re-open Firefox and am getting this strange message. Any
> > > > idea what it means or what I should do about it? Firefox 15.01 on Fedora
> > > > 17.
> > > >
> > > > "Could not initialize the application's security component. The most
> > > > likely cause is problems with files in your application's profile
> > > > directory. Please check that this directory has no read/write
> > > > restrictions and your hard disk is not full or close to full. It is
> > > > recommended that you exit the application and fix the problem. If you
> > > > continue to use this session, you might see incorrect application
> > > > behaviour when accessing security features."
> > > 
> > > Follow the instructions. First, make sure your disk isn't full.
> > > 
> > > df -h
> > 
> > Plenty of room:
> > rootfs                   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> > devtmpfs                1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /dev
> > tmpfs                   1.8G  244K  1.8G   1% /dev/shm
> > tmpfs                   1.8G  1.4M  1.8G   1% /run
> > /dev/mapper/vg-lv_root   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> > tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> > tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /media
> > /dev/sda2               485M   63M  397M  14% /boot
> > /dev/sda1               200M  284K  200M   1% /boot/efi
> > /dev/mapper/vg-lv_home  239G   25G  202G  11% /home
> > 
> > > 
> > > Make sure that ~/.mozilla and subdirectories are accessible to you and only you.
> > > 
> > > 1) Close firefox
> > > 2) find ~/.mozilla -type d -exec chmod 0700 '{}' \; # directories
> > > should be executable.
> > > 3) find ~/.mozilla -type f -exec chmod 0600 '{}' \; # files should not
> > > be executable.
> > 
> > > 4) Start firefox
> > > 
> > > If the problem still persists, maybe your filesystem is read-only.
> > > 
> > > mount
> > 
> > Looks like it's all rw. And I've been writing all kinds of other stuff
> > to the fs.
> > > 
> > > If the problem _still_ persists, are you sure you own the files in question?
> > > 
> > > ls -l ~/.mozilla
> > > 
> > Yup.
> > 
> > I wonder if it has to do with turning off SELinux? I had to do that as
> > it was messing with my WordPress functionality and I don't have time to
> > learn SELinux now. I don't have time to be messing with this either, but
> > I shouldn't have to be. I've shut off SELinux in the past without any
> > trouble.
> > 
> > These are the instructions I found online:
> > cp /et/selinux/config  /etc/selinux/config.bak
> > sed -i s/SELINUX=enforcing/SELINUX=disables/g  /etc/etc/selinux/config
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > EB
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug




From ebever at researchintegration.org  Thu Sep 27 13:00:51 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 13:00:51 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Could not initialize application's security component
 (Firefox)
In-Reply-To: <1348764485.1656.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1348754735.1670.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <CA+czFiCaO+T=xVXTHT+TEjRCX9+9pTKf4f94ct5qFq13kxiPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348758563.1670.11.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348758998.1670.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348764485.1656.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1348765251.1656.8.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Got it. Google is my friend after all.

support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/couldnt-initialize-applications-security-component:
Problem seems to be a corrupted cert8.db file. Includes info on getting
to "containing folder", which on my install is helpfully called
'xym05ck7.default'.

I even re-did the SELinux disable steps and Firefox still seems to be
working.

Thanks to all.

On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 12:48 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> Well, I went back and restored the original selinux/config file.
> Restarted and the computer went through "SELinux targed policy relabel
> is required." But this hasn't helped the Firefox problem. 
> 
> Next I uninstalled Firefox and re-installed it, restarted Fedora, and still no good. Aaaaaaargh!
> 
> On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 11:16 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> > What is "the application's profile directory"? I looked at profile.ini
> > in .mozilla/firefox, but that doesn't seem to have anything relevant.
> > And I don't see a "profile directory" in .mozilla anywhere.
> > 
> > On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 11:09 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> > > I can check those things, but why would any of them have changed since
> > > the last time I opened Firefox?
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 2012-09-27 at 10:16 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Eric Beversluis
> > > > <ebever at researchintegration.org> wrote:
> > > > > I'm trying to re-open Firefox and am getting this strange message. Any
> > > > > idea what it means or what I should do about it? Firefox 15.01 on Fedora
> > > > > 17.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Could not initialize the application's security component. The most
> > > > > likely cause is problems with files in your application's profile
> > > > > directory. Please check that this directory has no read/write
> > > > > restrictions and your hard disk is not full or close to full. It is
> > > > > recommended that you exit the application and fix the problem. If you
> > > > > continue to use this session, you might see incorrect application
> > > > > behaviour when accessing security features."
> > > > 
> > > > Follow the instructions. First, make sure your disk isn't full.
> > > > 
> > > > df -h
> > > 
> > > Plenty of room:
> > > rootfs                   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> > > devtmpfs                1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /dev
> > > tmpfs                   1.8G  244K  1.8G   1% /dev/shm
> > > tmpfs                   1.8G  1.4M  1.8G   1% /run
> > > /dev/mapper/vg-lv_root   50G  4.7G   45G  10% /
> > > tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
> > > tmpfs                   1.8G     0  1.8G   0% /media
> > > /dev/sda2               485M   63M  397M  14% /boot
> > > /dev/sda1               200M  284K  200M   1% /boot/efi
> > > /dev/mapper/vg-lv_home  239G   25G  202G  11% /home
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Make sure that ~/.mozilla and subdirectories are accessible to you and only you.
> > > > 
> > > > 1) Close firefox
> > > > 2) find ~/.mozilla -type d -exec chmod 0700 '{}' \; # directories
> > > > should be executable.
> > > > 3) find ~/.mozilla -type f -exec chmod 0600 '{}' \; # files should not
> > > > be executable.
> > > 
> > > > 4) Start firefox
> > > > 
> > > > If the problem still persists, maybe your filesystem is read-only.
> > > > 
> > > > mount
> > > 
> > > Looks like it's all rw. And I've been writing all kinds of other stuff
> > > to the fs.
> > > > 
> > > > If the problem _still_ persists, are you sure you own the files in question?
> > > > 
> > > > ls -l ~/.mozilla
> > > > 
> > > Yup.
> > > 
> > > I wonder if it has to do with turning off SELinux? I had to do that as
> > > it was messing with my WordPress functionality and I don't have time to
> > > learn SELinux now. I don't have time to be messing with this either, but
> > > I shouldn't have to be. I've shut off SELinux in the past without any
> > > trouble.
> > > 
> > > These are the instructions I found online:
> > > cp /et/selinux/config  /etc/selinux/config.bak
> > > sed -i s/SELINUX=enforcing/SELINUX=disables/g  /etc/etc/selinux/config
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > > EB
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From grlugcasey at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 16:18:43 2012
From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:18:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <CAA4ca74ZPDghPC1B1CyuVYD_casAzXYg-Twym0_X+PDdmcEpZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZF44i0vvxYLX1yXg_NOHJEEy1bK_xkqii44uhPgoPj6jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76q=07eGYM28=zGANdzpXoA9-XoTejHnksWgGp-UrEMdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEXKtObOx7zNrK0WvgUf7byA0OL_TeE0A3PPgTpZ6Y7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZPDghPC1B1CyuVYD_casAzXYg-Twym0_X+PDdmcEpZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <585B11B6-DF40-44A3-8A86-0A5B95524B1E@gmail.com>

Hey GRLUG,

GrrCON has FREE sessions tonight. 



Regards,
Casey DuBois
616-808-6942

On Sep 24, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Patrick TenHoopen <ptenhoopen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Done!  Thanks Casey!  See you there.
> 
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>> I got 10 more activated.
>> Hurry up before they are all gone...
>> 
>> barcamp213 to recieve 35% off regular priced and student tickets
>> 
>> See you ALL there...
>> Casey
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> END OF LINE.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From grlugcasey at gmail.com  Thu Sep 27 16:22:32 2012
From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:22:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GrrCON '12 is almost here!
In-Reply-To: <585B11B6-DF40-44A3-8A86-0A5B95524B1E@gmail.com>
References: <20120827160541.EFD324A0EB@prod-task-app1.evbops.com>
 <CAH4FDZEDuGv4EEdHPGDicKdSspXHr40PaDVGvTw8cjTfL6Hr8g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76qC4UCPvoVY1PkUCNVwWaofjum_bmux0CnM6h3jr+EFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEupehQ0OqVZeMyc01f4tu158JRvi==kkZ=4fkwNuGMMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZrwfnEK2d28zwo1WQuCCRsohwR1PZS9vnd-asS77eoQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZF44i0vvxYLX1yXg_NOHJEEy1bK_xkqii44uhPgoPj6jg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca76q=07eGYM28=zGANdzpXoA9-XoTejHnksWgGp-UrEMdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZEXKtObOx7zNrK0WvgUf7byA0OL_TeE0A3PPgTpZ6Y7ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAA4ca74ZPDghPC1B1CyuVYD_casAzXYg-Twym0_X+PDdmcEpZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <585B11B6-DF40-44A3-8A86-0A5B95524B1E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B07BE9EC-A7B8-4861-9BAB-A5F7849A953A@gmail.com>

7:30: the Moscow rules for infosec
8:30: intro to Linux system hardening. 

7:30-8:30: adventures in ghost hunting


> Hey GRLUG,
> 
> GrrCON has FREE sessions tonight. 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> 
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Patrick TenHoopen <ptenhoopen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Done!  Thanks Casey!  See you there.
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>>> I got 10 more activated.
>>> Hurry up before they are all gone...
>>> 
>>> barcamp213 to recieve 35% off regular priced and student tickets
>>> 
>>> See you ALL there...
>>> Casey
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> END OF LINE.
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From ebever at researchintegration.org  Thu Sep 27 18:25:54 2012
From: ebever at researchintegration.org (Eric Beversluis)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:25:54 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Can't upgrade to Fedora 17
In-Reply-To: <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <5060C803.10001@researchintegration.org>
 <5060D2A9.8090104@researchintegration.org>
 <CAAuMJGE7HpRUepGbE+GaYLRZfCTYuuteZNrAGCZ4-A-v+JQg+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <5060E2E3.8090801@researchintegration.org>
 <1348653332.1981.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>
 <1348681087.4225.4.camel@linux-nysu.site>
 <1348683058.1716.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1348784754.1706.22.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 14:10 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 13:38 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 05:55 -0400, Eric Beversluis wrote: 
> > > Update: I was able to complete the upgrade from the Fedora 17 live cd. A
> > > real hassle, though, needing to do a fresh install. Evolution in
> > > particular is a pain. After restoring my home directory, I opened
> > > Evolution, which then proceeded, as nearly as I can tell, with
> > > overwriting my old Evo data in .local/share/evolution. So I had to
> > > re-copy all of that manually. A real pain, particularly when Evo didn't
> > > want to recognize my calendar and contacts. I finally got it to
> > > recognize the calendar stuff by using the Import Individual File option,
> > > selecting the calendar.ics that was already in ...evolution/calendar. 
> > 
> > > Does anyone know what I can do to get my contacts re-installed? I think
> > > maybe Evo switched from some other DB format to SQLite. But how do I
> > > convert the old addressbook.db?
> > 
> > Yes, Evolution changed quite some time ago to use the XDG spec for
> > storing data.  It (along with everyone else) also left BDB in favor of
> > SQLite.
> > <http://library.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.2/data-storage.html.en>
> > 
> > But an upgrade does not overwrite data, as the data gets recreates in a
> > different place.  The evolution@ list is probably a good place to ask.
> > <https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list>
> 
> Unfortunately, as I learned last year, the people on the list are pretty
> snotty about helping anyone who doesn't have an official Evo backup and
> relied instead on an rdiff-backup. (<rant> E.g., they said, "Of course,
> you're not supposed to be messing with hidden file anyway."--First time
> I head that in 10 years of working with Linux. And I don't think I've
> seen any other application that requires you to use their backup and
> doesn't maintain backward compatibility with older file formats. There's
> certainly nothing in the help documents that informs the user of this.
> </rant>)
> 
> I thought I had muddled through last year and gotten everything sorted
> out, but apparently the contacts files did not get updated and so now I
> need a way to convert the old addressbook.db to the new sqlite format.
> 
> EB
> 
Solution:
Work-around:
-I spent several hrs trying to find way to convert the BDB file to
SQLite, without success (or at least, without finding anything that
didn't look like it had a significant learning curve).
-I copied the old addressbook.db file to an old computer that had an old
Evo.
-I used that evo to save the addressbook to vCard format.
-I imported the list.vcf into the new Evo on the Fedora 17 box

Thanks to all.


From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 10:52:55 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:52:55 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
Message-ID: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax

For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
moderately technical people.

-- 
:wq

From jtr at jrichards.org  Fri Sep 28 15:52:31 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 15:52:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>

On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
> 
> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
> moderately technical people.

I keep getting a 504 error.
-- 
john-thomas
Sent from my Nokia N900

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:03:29 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:03:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiA4eGauVTGR6aELRu5zcuukdM6dXn8tPcbESq7tQTBZZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
>>
>> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
>> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
>> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
>> moderately technical people.
>
> I keep getting a 504 error.

Works for me. HTTP504 is "gateway timed out"...were you trying to
access it from your Nokia? Might be something funny with your phone
ISP's proxy server.

-- 
:wq

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:08:46 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:08:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
Message-ID: <CAFOq4EKWZC0=hd6bBiEFcnBGm7bX=Aow9puMikNqThZBxt2Wdw@mail.gmail.com>

Works here.

   -- Bob



On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:

> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
> >
> > For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
> > conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
> > it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
> > moderately technical people.
>
> I keep getting a 504 error.
> --
> john-thomas
> Sent from my Nokia N900
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From pilcheck at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:29:24 2012
From: pilcheck at gmail.com (Dan Pilcheck)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:29:24 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
Message-ID: <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
>>
>> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
>> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
>> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
>> moderately technical people.
>
> I keep getting a 504 error.
> --

Work for me.

We've been using their UniFi lineup in a couple of buildings, best AP
decision I've ever made!
They have a nice interface and some clever features.

Ubiquiti is top of the line when it comes to bang for the buck in my opinion.



-- 
Who is to say that the next step in evolution is not a statistical
chance but rather a by-product of our own will?
That from here on out, nature stops deciding who survives and who
doesn't, but our own decisions?

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:34:09 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:34:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiD9-w9d4QxfNtTxV0ja88b54e88HPqWe=5MzD2dq5OncQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
>> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
>>>
>>> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
>>> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
>>> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
>>> moderately technical people.
>>
>> I keep getting a 504 error.
>> --
>
> Work for me.
>
> We've been using their UniFi lineup in a couple of buildings, best AP
> decision I've ever made!
> They have a nice interface and some clever features.
>
> Ubiquiti is top of the line when it comes to bang for the buck in my opinion.

I was looking at their UniFi stuff. Unfortunately, I don't have any
Mac or Windows setups at home. I'm thinking about asking that they add
a 'UniFi management' package to their EdgeMAX routers.


-- 
:wq

From pilcheck at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:42:57 2012
From: pilcheck at gmail.com (Dan Pilcheck)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:42:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiD9-w9d4QxfNtTxV0ja88b54e88HPqWe=5MzD2dq5OncQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD9-w9d4QxfNtTxV0ja88b54e88HPqWe=5MzD2dq5OncQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN2Qd3qJrF4Rs8xNV3=e7eqEh=XVnFQW86uVfKpd=mk_cvaUFw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
>>>>
>>>> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
>>>> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
>>>> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
>>>> moderately technical people.
>>>
>>> I keep getting a 504 error.
>>> --
>>
>> Work for me.
>>
>> We've been using their UniFi lineup in a couple of buildings, best AP
>> decision I've ever made!
>> They have a nice interface and some clever features.
>>
>> Ubiquiti is top of the line when it comes to bang for the buck in my opinion.
>
> I was looking at their UniFi stuff. Unfortunately, I don't have any
> Mac or Windows setups at home. I'm thinking about asking that they add
> a 'UniFi management' package to their EdgeMAX routers.
>

I don't either! I use a Debian box for the manager.
Their docs are lagging behind the dev's a little... they seem
responsive on the forum though.
See: http://forum.ubnt.com/showthread.php?t=45945 for apt- instructions.

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Sep 28 16:58:47 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 16:58:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <CAN2Qd3qJrF4Rs8xNV3=e7eqEh=XVnFQW86uVfKpd=mk_cvaUFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD9-w9d4QxfNtTxV0ja88b54e88HPqWe=5MzD2dq5OncQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN2Qd3qJrF4Rs8xNV3=e7eqEh=XVnFQW86uVfKpd=mk_cvaUFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiD45NncjBrp8w1pANEXVjT4hN0aK1=Khoy9DrzfYpVSGw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
>>>>>
>>>>> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
>>>>> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
>>>>> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
>>>>> moderately technical people.
>>>>
>>>> I keep getting a 504 error.
>>>> --
>>>
>>> Work for me.
>>>
>>> We've been using their UniFi lineup in a couple of buildings, best AP
>>> decision I've ever made!
>>> They have a nice interface and some clever features.
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti is top of the line when it comes to bang for the buck in my opinion.
>>
>> I was looking at their UniFi stuff. Unfortunately, I don't have any
>> Mac or Windows setups at home. I'm thinking about asking that they add
>> a 'UniFi management' package to their EdgeMAX routers.
>>
>
> I don't either! I use a Debian box for the manager.
> Their docs are lagging behind the dev's a little... they seem
> responsive on the forum though.
> See: http://forum.ubnt.com/showthread.php?t=45945 for apt- instructions.

Sweet.


-- 
:wq

From davidn.wise at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 10:05:54 2012
From: davidn.wise at gmail.com (David Wise)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:05:54 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Raspberry Pi Question
In-Reply-To: <CAH4FDZFDA_RUpEtd8b9TBaS2nDaRe30Rr9VTFq1F0T1dYkUsOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEmRL8WLBpOtJAdjyAcjGGWDigGhQ4QZOZYPgAwxdyYsc36QrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kevXRNK=ze2T_6_W1jN71DNN615uuc6F3r61UySb0=0owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8Xzq2yOcaucOYh8jR2vfYq03u_twBAqFy9e8qw0x7q-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKZE2heQPj2fDGYzw9tgvuydXazjubyLJa+G04PGjYgFL=6Fbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8UdhUi6gOjfyBLTFEqVuXaLFcea3AtKcctrK5yv=cy23Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZFDA_RUpEtd8b9TBaS2nDaRe30Rr9VTFq1F0T1dYkUsOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFqr0KzCkoPMOuVdWA6R4==BGiJSbUt+qP9b8+vc=HjJ=POJLw@mail.gmail.com>

I've been messing around with my RPi with Raspbmc for a little bit, but my
biggest question is whether I can get it to play DVD .ISOs. The easiest
method I've found for archiving my DVDs grabs them as an ISO that I can
choose to convert to another format later. It'd be nice if I could skip
that last step. So far I haven't really found decent info on how to get
them playing though.

Anybody got any secrets they can share?
--
Dave



On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

> I like my RPi over the Roku because of XBMC and the way it pulls media
> from my central server.
> I have noticed that the picture with the RPi was much clearer than
> XBMC on my workstation but the audio is not as good.
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Sep 29 10:25:36 2012
From: jtr at jrichards.org (John-Thomas Richards)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:25:36 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Raspberry Pi Question
In-Reply-To: <CAFqr0KzCkoPMOuVdWA6R4==BGiJSbUt+qP9b8+vc=HjJ=POJLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEmRL8WLBpOtJAdjyAcjGGWDigGhQ4QZOZYPgAwxdyYsc36QrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kevXRNK=ze2T_6_W1jN71DNN615uuc6F3r61UySb0=0owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8Xzq2yOcaucOYh8jR2vfYq03u_twBAqFy9e8qw0x7q-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKZE2heQPj2fDGYzw9tgvuydXazjubyLJa+G04PGjYgFL=6Fbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8UdhUi6gOjfyBLTFEqVuXaLFcea3AtKcctrK5yv=cy23Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZFDA_RUpEtd8b9TBaS2nDaRe30Rr9VTFq1F0T1dYkUsOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFqr0KzCkoPMOuVdWA6R4==BGiJSbUt+qP9b8+vc=HjJ=POJLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120929142536.GA1435@mint>

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:05:54AM -0400, David Wise wrote:
> I've been messing around with my RPi with Raspbmc for a little bit, but my
> biggest question is whether I can get it to play DVD .ISOs. The easiest
> method I've found for archiving my DVDs grabs them as an ISO that I can
> choose to convert to another format later. It'd be nice if I could skip
> that last step. So far I haven't really found decent info on how to get
> them playing though.
> 
> Anybody got any secrets they can share?

Does it have to be stored in an .iso?  Perhaps dvdbackup would help.  It
simply copies the DVD (with its file structure) to your drive.  The VOBs
are fairly straightforward to extract later.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.
Thomas Henry Huxley, biologist (1825-1895)

From davidn.wise at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 10:56:18 2012
From: davidn.wise at gmail.com (David Wise)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:56:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Raspberry Pi Question
In-Reply-To: <20120929142536.GA1435@mint>
References: <CAEmRL8WLBpOtJAdjyAcjGGWDigGhQ4QZOZYPgAwxdyYsc36QrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kevXRNK=ze2T_6_W1jN71DNN615uuc6F3r61UySb0=0owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8Xzq2yOcaucOYh8jR2vfYq03u_twBAqFy9e8qw0x7q-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKZE2heQPj2fDGYzw9tgvuydXazjubyLJa+G04PGjYgFL=6Fbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8UdhUi6gOjfyBLTFEqVuXaLFcea3AtKcctrK5yv=cy23Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZFDA_RUpEtd8b9TBaS2nDaRe30Rr9VTFq1F0T1dYkUsOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFqr0KzCkoPMOuVdWA6R4==BGiJSbUt+qP9b8+vc=HjJ=POJLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20120929142536.GA1435@mint>
Message-ID: <CAFqr0Ky+G4AJmSkfbXw89jedBaSc7ayuY5PvJSqeXn9s4oo0UA@mail.gmail.com>

I guess it wouldn't have to be an .ISO, but I am hoping for some way to get
my DVDs to my television with the same ease I get my CDs to my stereo. A
digital jukebox with simple interface is the end goal.

I currently use PS3 Media Server to stream to my PS3, and it handles ISO
files, but simply gives me a directory structure. I  want to select a file
and get to the DVD menu. It's a messy bunch of "title01" type files that
way, and I assume that it would be equally messy in a directory structure.

If the RPi isn't the best option here, I can change my thinking to another
device. I have other uses I can re-purpose the RPi to do, but with it's
excellent graphics capabilities, I was thinking it'd be ideal. I just
figured it'd work out of the box since XBMC on my Win7 machine works
without any configuring (I just installed it now to check).
--
Dave



On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:25 AM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:05:54AM -0400, David Wise wrote:
> > I've been messing around with my RPi with Raspbmc for a little bit, but
> my
> > biggest question is whether I can get it to play DVD .ISOs. The easiest
> > method I've found for archiving my DVDs grabs them as an ISO that I can
> > choose to convert to another format later. It'd be nice if I could skip
> > that last step. So far I haven't really found decent info on how to get
> > them playing though.
> >
> > Anybody got any secrets they can share?
>
> Does it have to be stored in an .iso?  Perhaps dvdbackup would help.  It
> simply copies the DVD (with its file structure) to your drive.  The VOBs
> are fairly straightforward to extract later.
> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.
> Thomas Henry Huxley, biologist (1825-1895)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From matthew at threadlight.com  Sat Sep 29 12:03:09 2012
From: matthew at threadlight.com (Matthew Seeley)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:03:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiD45NncjBrp8w1pANEXVjT4hN0aK1=Khoy9DrzfYpVSGw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD9-w9d4QxfNtTxV0ja88b54e88HPqWe=5MzD2dq5OncQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN2Qd3qJrF4Rs8xNV3=e7eqEh=XVnFQW86uVfKpd=mk_cvaUFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD45NncjBrp8w1pANEXVjT4hN0aK1=Khoy9DrzfYpVSGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3sFx8UdTqvWw4hM95aDwjUZec2TVZ60K4uMisx3ZqA=MizbA@mail.gmail.com>

This is probably a dumb question, but do these support combining two LAN
sources? (like load balancing between two ISPs)

I've been looking at the $200 to $300 Peplink devices
http://www.peplink.combut this Ubiquiti device looks really nice too.
On Sep 28, 2012 4:59 PM, "Michael Mol" <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <
> jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> >>>> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
> >>>>> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
> >>>>> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
> >>>>> moderately technical people.
> >>>>
> >>>> I keep getting a 504 error.
> >>>> --
> >>>
> >>> Work for me.
> >>>
> >>> We've been using their UniFi lineup in a couple of buildings, best AP
> >>> decision I've ever made!
> >>> They have a nice interface and some clever features.
> >>>
> >>> Ubiquiti is top of the line when it comes to bang for the buck in my
> opinion.
> >>
> >> I was looking at their UniFi stuff. Unfortunately, I don't have any
> >> Mac or Windows setups at home. I'm thinking about asking that they add
> >> a 'UniFi management' package to their EdgeMAX routers.
> >>
> >
> > I don't either! I use a Debian box for the manager.
> > Their docs are lagging behind the dev's a little... they seem
> > responsive on the forum though.
> > See: http://forum.ubnt.com/showthread.php?t=45945 for apt- instructions.
>
> Sweet.
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 13:11:07 2012
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 13:11:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <CAB3sFx8UdTqvWw4hM95aDwjUZec2TVZ60K4uMisx3ZqA=MizbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD9-w9d4QxfNtTxV0ja88b54e88HPqWe=5MzD2dq5OncQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN2Qd3qJrF4Rs8xNV3=e7eqEh=XVnFQW86uVfKpd=mk_cvaUFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD45NncjBrp8w1pANEXVjT4hN0aK1=Khoy9DrzfYpVSGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3sFx8UdTqvWw4hM95aDwjUZec2TVZ60K4uMisx3ZqA=MizbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+czFiD-YpNr=HNK09GQ10jnGb=0x8v7BFtrP=KuKJpgruAhTg@mail.gmail.com>

Sure; the way I see it, all three ethernet ports on there are equal until
you define a configuration for them. You'll need NAT or a proxy server on
it, but then you'll be fine.
On Sep 29, 2012 12:03 PM, "Matthew Seeley" <matthew at threadlight.com> wrote:

> This is probably a dumb question, but do these support combining two LAN
> sources? (like load balancing between two ISPs)
>
> I've been looking at the $200 to $300 Peplink devices
> http://www.peplink.com but this Ubiquiti device looks really nice too.
> On Sep 28, 2012 4:59 PM, "Michael Mol" <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Dan Pilcheck <pilcheck at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John-Thomas Richards <
>> jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
>> >>>> On Fri Sep 28 2012 10:52:55 AM EDT, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For that feature set, for $99...I want one. And just based on
>> >>>>> conversing with people I know who have their hands on beta models,
>> >>>>> it's going to be my first suggestion for SOHO routers for even
>> >>>>> moderately technical people.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I keep getting a 504 error.
>> >>>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> Work for me.
>> >>>
>> >>> We've been using their UniFi lineup in a couple of buildings, best AP
>> >>> decision I've ever made!
>> >>> They have a nice interface and some clever features.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ubiquiti is top of the line when it comes to bang for the buck in my
>> opinion.
>> >>
>> >> I was looking at their UniFi stuff. Unfortunately, I don't have any
>> >> Mac or Windows setups at home. I'm thinking about asking that they add
>> >> a 'UniFi management' package to their EdgeMAX routers.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I don't either! I use a Debian box for the manager.
>> > Their docs are lagging behind the dev's a little... they seem
>> > responsive on the forum though.
>> > See: http://forum.ubnt.com/showthread.php?t=45945 for apt-
>> instructions.
>>
>> Sweet.
>>
>>
>> --
>> :wq
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Sat Sep 29 13:26:49 2012
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 10:26:49 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] EdgeMAX Debian-based routing hardware
In-Reply-To: <CA+czFiD-YpNr=HNK09GQ10jnGb=0x8v7BFtrP=KuKJpgruAhTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+czFiA3zCyvQRNOhecsn0ou7v3Y3aB+NU8fOCCQ90_rtry-fg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1348861951.6453.2.camel@Nokia-N900>
 <CAN2Qd3pn=2rKecz=hCj_Ud9S+ksw+8vcLQHKODjYJ2VycD-ReA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD9-w9d4QxfNtTxV0ja88b54e88HPqWe=5MzD2dq5OncQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN2Qd3qJrF4Rs8xNV3=e7eqEh=XVnFQW86uVfKpd=mk_cvaUFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD45NncjBrp8w1pANEXVjT4hN0aK1=Khoy9DrzfYpVSGw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB3sFx8UdTqvWw4hM95aDwjUZec2TVZ60K4uMisx3ZqA=MizbA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CA+czFiD-YpNr=HNK09GQ10jnGb=0x8v7BFtrP=KuKJpgruAhTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALL8gRZ=mzPm8R0DRrz78UXJzniUTdnJJN=S70KvkVZ5BXefiw@mail.gmail.com>

Anything that can run OpenWRT (and these days that's a LOT) can do WAN
load balancing.  And the recently released 12.09 beta has fq-codel
baked right in.

--tim

From megadave at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 08:08:52 2012
From: megadave at gmail.com (megadave)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 08:08:52 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Raspberry Pi Question
In-Reply-To: <CAFqr0Ky+G4AJmSkfbXw89jedBaSc7ayuY5PvJSqeXn9s4oo0UA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEmRL8WLBpOtJAdjyAcjGGWDigGhQ4QZOZYPgAwxdyYsc36QrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFP7kevXRNK=ze2T_6_W1jN71DNN615uuc6F3r61UySb0=0owQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8Xzq2yOcaucOYh8jR2vfYq03u_twBAqFy9e8qw0x7q-ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKZE2heQPj2fDGYzw9tgvuydXazjubyLJa+G04PGjYgFL=6Fbg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEmRL8UdhUi6gOjfyBLTFEqVuXaLFcea3AtKcctrK5yv=cy23Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH4FDZFDA_RUpEtd8b9TBaS2nDaRe30Rr9VTFq1F0T1dYkUsOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFqr0KzCkoPMOuVdWA6R4==BGiJSbUt+qP9b8+vc=HjJ=POJLw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20120929142536.GA1435@mint>
 <CAFqr0Ky+G4AJmSkfbXw89jedBaSc7ayuY5PvJSqeXn9s4oo0UA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFP7ketpSpjXgt9X12nGkE5PZTghAzLuqr4JQyZztwCr7WQumg@mail.gmail.com>

I would suggest vlc, for playing iso images of DVD's.

On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:56 AM, David Wise <davidn.wise at gmail.com> wrote:
> I guess it wouldn't have to be an .ISO, but I am hoping for some way to get
> my DVDs to my television with the same ease I get my CDs to my stereo. A
> digital jukebox with simple interface is the end goal.
>
> I currently use PS3 Media Server to stream to my PS3, and it handles ISO
> files, but simply gives me a directory structure. I  want to select a file
> and get to the DVD menu. It's a messy bunch of "title01" type files that
> way, and I assume that it would be equally messy in a directory structure.
>
> If the RPi isn't the best option here, I can change my thinking to another
> device. I have other uses I can re-purpose the RPi to do, but with it's
> excellent graphics capabilities, I was thinking it'd be ideal. I just
> figured it'd work out of the box since XBMC on my Win7 machine works without
> any configuring (I just installed it now to check).
> --
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:25 AM, John-Thomas Richards <jtr at jrichards.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 10:05:54AM -0400, David Wise wrote:
>> > I've been messing around with my RPi with Raspbmc for a little bit, but
>> > my
>> > biggest question is whether I can get it to play DVD .ISOs. The easiest
>> > method I've found for archiving my DVDs grabs them as an ISO that I can
>> > choose to convert to another format later. It'd be nice if I could skip
>> > that last step. So far I haven't really found decent info on how to get
>> > them playing though.
>> >
>> > Anybody got any secrets they can share?
>>
>> Does it have to be stored in an .iso?  Perhaps dvdbackup would help.  It
>> simply copies the DVD (with its file structure) to your drive.  The VOBs
>> are fairly straightforward to extract later.
>> --
>> john-thomas
>> ------
>> Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.
>> Thomas Henry Huxley, biologist (1825-1895)
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From collink at kkmfg.com  Sun Sep 30 10:51:37 2012
From: collink at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 10:51:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRMakers Social This Saturday Sept 29 8-10PM
In-Reply-To: <CALC3+Tm7+WA6WySSb1SvFR1foWBtfaVZw7ZoQDgyFWLhcckvzA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH4FDZEKe5kq2ajLApWho8xq_-rBDh9ZU5+aXYDDsEcdrr6Jow@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABBbThCmfAW3ARKfo6V-fPaU_TVbbAk11j2d+rUxJEpvqEEQfQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <50646302.2050602@gmail.com>
 <CABBbThBDs+dQZQ1D5gEjtSvf4UeMoWD+UH6QXdeM2Bdew=cTVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALC3+Tm7+WA6WySSb1SvFR1foWBtfaVZw7ZoQDgyFWLhcckvzA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABBbThCoqUykb3P9HLQ=Zs_AZb5EiGxQwm1nR4r8CgB0C_p32g@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately I was not able to make it. Still, I'm interested. Is
there going to be another mailing list or anything to further discuss
this?

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Joshua Yuhas <uhawl1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your support and input,  Collin, and I look forward to talking
> to you if you come this Saturday evening!
>
> On Sep 27, 2012 10:47 AM, "Collin Kidder" <collink at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> I said he was an interesting guy and that Michael must have met him to
>> have said that a fork was necessary. I had wanted to leave it at that
>> rather than say anything particularly disparaging. Yes, I do realize
>> that he's not the easiest person to deal with and that that fact might
>> be what necessitates a fork to another makerspace. For what it's worth
>> I whole heartedly welcome the GRMakers space and movement! It sounds
>> awesome, I was just making sure that enough people had a good reason
>> for not just going to TGG. It would appear that my suspicions about
>> some things are not totally unfounded.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Kelly Vanderwell
>> <kelly.vanderwell at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > If you were to pool resources with Chris Boden and TGG the resources
>> > would
>> > become bodens, and bodens only.  he doesn't like to share.  he doesn't
>> > like
>> > to do things any other way than his way and his way only.  I"m not being
>> > negative. I"m only telling the truth.  After being a volunteer there for
>> > more than 1.5 years, i'm done with them and they won't acknowledge i
>> > exist.
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From philip.robar at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 13:38:36 2012
From: philip.robar at gmail.com (Robar Philip)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:38:36 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Raspberry Pi Question
In-Reply-To: <CAFOq4E+ufcvindu5xE8OY2rW+QJJ=KJLnoPbqGXq7yrg29o9Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEmRL8WLBpOtJAdjyAcjGGWDigGhQ4QZOZYPgAwxdyYsc36QrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFOq4E+ufcvindu5xE8OY2rW+QJJ=KJLnoPbqGXq7yrg29o9Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <10121324-ADA7-4AA0-BDD0-03E688813B24@gmail.com>


On Jul 26, 2012, at 8:20 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:

> The low end Roku is $50 from Amazon, and works well. I can?t believe you?ll
> save anything by starting with a $35 RP, adding a remote, case, and trying
> to get it gong, all to try to avoid an extra $15 or less. And S&H can be free.
> 
> We have three low end Roku units, and they do the job well.

It is clear from a little internet searching that Roku boxes are polarizing devices. I have put off getting one for years, but I finally broke down and ordered a refurbished Roku for one reason, it is the only inexpensive way to be sure you?re getting the best Netflix video and audio quality. PC based solutions will never do this due to licensing restrictions. And finding out what quality level of Netflix content any given device (i.e. TV, disc player, game console) supports is nearly impossible (Netflix certainly won?t tell you), but the Roku is documented as getting the highest level of HD video and multi-channel audio that Netflix offers. Any other service I get from the Roku will be a bonus?to me it?s a dedicated Netflix box.


Phil


From bob.kline at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 13:46:40 2012
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:46:40 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Raspberry Pi Question
In-Reply-To: <10121324-ADA7-4AA0-BDD0-03E688813B24@gmail.com>
References: <CAEmRL8WLBpOtJAdjyAcjGGWDigGhQ4QZOZYPgAwxdyYsc36QrA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFOq4E+ufcvindu5xE8OY2rW+QJJ=KJLnoPbqGXq7yrg29o9Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <10121324-ADA7-4AA0-BDD0-03E688813B24@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFOq4EK4GDieGyW6v3w8xrLoYrY92yr6DHAaKYttf8k9QpZ-ig@mail.gmail.com>

Re Netflix, that's pretty much the case
here as well. Subjectively, the picture
quality is very good. Of course this can
plateau much faster than the issue of
program content...  But between movies,
old TV content, documentaries, etc, I
figure it's well worth $8 a month.

With essentially 100 copyright periods
now, thanks to Disney's Eisner, the
studios will remain in control of content.
What deals Netflix, Roku, and others
will make on the technical front with
the studios is bound to remain confidential.

    -- Bob


On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Robar Philip <philip.robar at gmail.com>wrote:

>
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 8:20 PM, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The low end Roku is $50 from Amazon, and works well. I can?t believe
> you?ll
> > save anything by starting with a $35 RP, adding a remote, case, and
> trying
> > to get it gong, all to try to avoid an extra $15 or less. And S&H can be
> free.
> >
> > We have three low end Roku units, and they do the job well.
>
> It is clear from a little internet searching that Roku boxes are
> polarizing devices. I have put off getting one for years, but I finally
> broke down and ordered a refurbished Roku for one reason, it is the only
> inexpensive way to be sure you?re getting the best Netflix video and audio
> quality. PC based solutions will never do this due to licensing
> restrictions. And finding out what quality level of Netflix content any
> given device (i.e. TV, disc player, game console) supports is nearly
> impossible (Netflix certainly won?t tell you), but the Roku is documented
> as getting the highest level of HD video and multi-channel audio that
> Netflix offers. Any other service I get from the Roku will be a bonus?to me
> it?s a dedicated Netflix box.
>
>
> Phil
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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