From mailtonick at gmail.com  Fri Feb  1 09:08:02 2008
From: mailtonick at gmail.com (Nick)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:08:02 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] February meeting? Tuesday February 12, 6-8pm
In-Reply-To: <1201803556.6881.2.camel@donw-laptop>
References: <f5e00c450801300931y29807ef3xdde45ddd64525d53@mail.gmail.com>
	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF0711@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<1201803556.6881.2.camel@donw-laptop>
Message-ID: <30bcf8860802010608t260136d0geb71e2be5f3f97d2@mail.gmail.com>

Seconded.
"I'd like to see other people like me that are implementing Linux in the
workplace."

On Jan 31, 2008 1:19 PM, Don Wood <dond at standalelumber.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 11:58 -0500, Casey DuBois wrote:
> > I'm planning on a February meeting, how about Tuesday Feb 12, 6-8pm?
> > Topic has not been decided yet so please make suggestions.
> >
> > Casey
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Mol [mailto:mikemol at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:32 PM
> > To: grlug at grlug.org
> > Subject: [GRLUG] February meeting?
> >
> > So are we having a meeting in February, then? :-)
> >
> > Are we looking for presentation topics?
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> I'd like to see other people like me that are implementing Linux in the
> workplace.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 23:17:49 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 20:17:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [GRLUG] February meeting? Tuesday February 12, 6-8pm
In-Reply-To: <30bcf8860802010608t260136d0geb71e2be5f3f97d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <682800.33311.qm@web80406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'd like to see some discussion on virtualization,
virtualbox, vmware . . . etc.  Also I'm having
difficulty getting fuse to mount read and write an
ntfs disk on my laptop if someone wants to help with
that :).  Then I could start testing the
virtualization stuff.


--- Nick <mailtonick at gmail.com> wrote:

> Seconded.
> "I'd like to see other people like me that are
> implementing Linux in the
> workplace."
> 
> On Jan 31, 2008 1:19 PM, Don Wood
> <dond at standalelumber.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 2008-01-31 at 11:58 -0500, Casey DuBois
> wrote:
> > > I'm planning on a February meeting, how about
> Tuesday Feb 12, 6-8pm?
> > > Topic has not been decided yet so please make
> suggestions.
> > >
> > > Casey
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Mol [mailto:mikemol at gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:32 PM
> > > To: grlug at grlug.org
> > > Subject: [GRLUG] February meeting?
> > >
> > > So are we having a meeting in February, then?
> :-)
> > >
> > > Are we looking for presentation topics?
> > >
> > > --
> > > :wq
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> > I'd like to see other people like me that are
> implementing Linux in the
> > workplace.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From nandres40 at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  4 21:09:40 2008
From: nandres40 at hotmail.com (Nicholas Andres)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 21:09:40 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Installing java
Message-ID: <BAY103-W20D16B422DA2F4B267A707AA2C0@phx.gbl>


n00b with a question...

I just recently installed CentOS 5 on my laptop.
Previously I was running LinuxMint which ran beautifully...(why oh why did I change)  :)

I now have a problem getting the Java Runtime to download and install.
Normally wouldn't worry about it but the Ferris wireless uses a cisco login that requires Java.
I know I am probably missing something simple but I can not figure it out.

Thanks 
N. Andres


_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
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From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 22:10:47 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:10:47 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.440.1202177276.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.440.1202177276.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <000201c867a4$b59b7220$20d25660$@com>

As far as meeting dates go, Tuesdays are always bad for me.  I attend
several other local user and professional groups and so far haven't had to
choose between two conflicting meeting dates. There is a list of some local
user groups on the wmntug.org website.  Thursday is a good day.

Topics:  virtualization, SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux,
system and network security, how about a shell script tip of the month, home
automation (google for Mr House), and maybe an open forum for 10 minutes.  

My $.02 


From cdubois at n-vint.com  Mon Feb  4 22:36:42 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 22:36:42 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting
In-Reply-To: <000201c867a4$b59b7220$20d25660$@com>
References: <mailman.440.1202177276.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<000201c867a4$b59b7220$20d25660$@com>
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF09FB@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Rehfeldt [mailto:drehfeldtusa at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 10:11 PM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting

As far as meeting dates go, Tuesdays are always bad for me.  I attend
several other local user and professional groups and so far haven't had to
choose between two conflicting meeting dates. There is a list of some local
user groups on the wmntug.org website.  Thursday is a good day.

Topics:  virtualization, SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux,
system and network security, how about a shell script tip of the month, home
automation (google for Mr House), and maybe an open forum for 10 minutes.

My $.02

_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org


Hi Doug,

Thanks for your $.02, Thursday's also work for me.
I liked your topics and would be willing to switch to Thursday
as long as you can attend and help lead discussions on some or
all of your topics listed above.

Is there anyone else that would prefer Thursday over Tuesday?

Casey



From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 09:17:23 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:17:23 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting
In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF09FB@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <mailman.440.1202177276.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<000201c867a4$b59b7220$20d25660$@com>
	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF09FB@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0802050617p6294c913kdbadd222911e295f@mail.gmail.com>

Thursdays do work been for me.

On Feb 4, 2008 10:36 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Rehfeldt [mailto:drehfeldtusa at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 10:11 PM
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting
>
> As far as meeting dates go, Tuesdays are always bad for me.  I attend
> several other local user and professional groups and so far haven't had to
> choose between two conflicting meeting dates. There is a list of some local
> user groups on the wmntug.org website.  Thursday is a good day.
>
> Topics:  virtualization, SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux,
> system and network security, how about a shell script tip of the month, home
> automation (google for Mr House), and maybe an open forum for 10 minutes.
>
> My $.02
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> Thanks for your $.02, Thursday's also work for me.
> I liked your topics and would be willing to switch to Thursday
> as long as you can attend and help lead discussions on some or
> all of your topics listed above.
>
> Is there anyone else that would prefer Thursday over Tuesday?
>
> Casey
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From flanderb at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 09:21:20 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:21:20 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Installing java
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-W20D16B422DA2F4B267A707AA2C0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY103-W20D16B422DA2F4B267A707AA2C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e8898d550802050621ve211243gf1ca092585598363@mail.gmail.com>

I usually just
- download the self extracting distro from Sun (nonRPM version).
- change the permission of this file.
- Run the .bin which unzips the directory structure after having you
agree to the copyright.
- Then I would copy this to /opt
- Optionally create a link of /opt/java/ to /opt/java6.whatever/.
- I would then put /opt/java/bin in the $PATH and you should be good.

Hope this helps.

On Feb 4, 2008 9:09 PM, Nicholas Andres <nandres40 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  n00b with a question...
>
> I just recently installed CentOS 5 on my laptop.
> Previously I was running LinuxMint which ran beautifully...(why oh why did I
> change)  :)
>
> I now have a problem getting the Java Runtime to download and install.
> Normally wouldn't worry about it but the Ferris wireless uses a cisco login
> that requires Java.
> I know I am probably missing something simple but I can not figure it out.
>
> Thanks
> N. Andres
>
>
> ________________________________
> Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we
> give. Learn more.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From erickson.adam.m at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 09:41:07 2008
From: erickson.adam.m at gmail.com (Adam M. Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:41:07 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Suggest Topics for Meeting
Message-ID: <7cd69fdf0802050641v1634243bl98dec336e41607b9@mail.gmail.com>

I really wish I could make one of these meetings but I live all the
way in North Muskegon and I don't even get out of work until 5PM.

A topic I wouldn't of mind seeing up close would be detailes  on
setting up a home/small biz network using just free Linux Distro's. To
include a FreeNAS, LAMP, Domain Controller, E-mail Server. Is there a
cheap application out there that can mimic what Exchange does with
OWA?

Any article links, and books on Networking Linux using free distro's
so I can learn would be greatly appreciated.

Adam M. Erickson

(To be reliable, information must be firsthand ?There is thus an
important relationship between intelligence and timing.
-- The Art Of Warfare by Sun-tzu)

From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 11:18:11 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:18:11 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Suggest Topics for Meeting
In-Reply-To: <7cd69fdf0802050641v1634243bl98dec336e41607b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7cd69fdf0802050641v1634243bl98dec336e41607b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0802050818p7b265580ha1242a05225d99d5@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah I live in fruitport, not quite as far away.

Have you tried egroupware?

On Feb 5, 2008 9:41 AM, Adam M. Erickson <erickson.adam.m at gmail.com> wrote:
> I really wish I could make one of these meetings but I live all the
> way in North Muskegon and I don't even get out of work until 5PM.
>
> A topic I wouldn't of mind seeing up close would be detailes  on
> setting up a home/small biz network using just free Linux Distro's. To
> include a FreeNAS, LAMP, Domain Controller, E-mail Server. Is there a
> cheap application out there that can mimic what Exchange does with
> OWA?
>
> Any article links, and books on Networking Linux using free distro's
> so I can learn would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Adam M. Erickson
>
> (To be reliable, information must be firsthand ?There is thus an
> important relationship between intelligence and timing.
> -- The Art Of Warfare by Sun-tzu)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 11:39:34 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:39:34 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] OWA replacement
In-Reply-To: <mailman.443.1202227842.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.443.1202227842.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <002001c86815$b1e02d80$0202fea9@bigburner>

"Is there a cheap application out there that can mimic what Exchange does
with OWA?"

Check out Scalix - there is a community edition at
http://www.scalix.com/community/communityedition/index.php


From brousch at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 11:41:46 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:41:46 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] OWA replacement
In-Reply-To: <002001c86815$b1e02d80$0202fea9@bigburner>
References: <mailman.443.1202227842.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<002001c86815$b1e02d80$0202fea9@bigburner>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930802050841w59a40e71q2737ee85e3b4115@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 5, 2008 11:39 AM, Douglas Rehfeldt <drehfeldtusa at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Is there a cheap application out there that can mimic what Exchange does
> with OWA?"
> <http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>
I recommend Zimbra: http://www.zimbra.com . I have been running the Open
Source version for a year or so and I love it.
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From slestak989 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 21:52:35 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:52:35 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting
In-Reply-To: <cea1322a0802050617p6294c913kdbadd222911e295f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.440.1202177276.3996.grlug@grlug.org>	<000201c867a4$b59b7220$20d25660$@com>	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF09FB@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<cea1322a0802050617p6294c913kdbadd222911e295f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A920F3.9050303@gmail.com>

Thursday is better for me than Tuesday


From flanderb at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 08:24:08 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:24:08 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting
In-Reply-To: <47A920F3.9050303@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.440.1202177276.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<000201c867a4$b59b7220$20d25660$@com>
	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF09FB@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<cea1322a0802050617p6294c913kdbadd222911e295f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A920F3.9050303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550802060524j26a6aea2m8c72a2577d6c8667@mail.gmail.com>

Same here, at least until spring.

On Feb 5, 2008 9:52 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thursday is better for me than Tuesday
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From geektoyz at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 19:11:14 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 19:11:14 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] <snip> Mount NTFS partition
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10802071611h22c77b3bt8caf6dee10f01f1a@mail.gmail.com>

John,

Generally, on a Debian (ahem, Ubuntu) system you can prepare for, and
mount an NTFS partition as such...

[lola at davinci]# apt-get install ntfs-3g
...
...
[lola at davinci]# ntfs-3g /dev/hda1 /mnt/ntfsdrive

The first command (as root) will install the "ntfs-3g, libfuse"
packages and dependencies.  The second command will allow you to mount
an NTFS partition read/write on the mount point "/mnt/ntfsdrive",
given that it is the first partition of the Master drive of your
Primary IDE controller (hda1).  If you have a SATA drive, it maybe
"sda1".  Use this after a fresh reboot to see what drives/partitions
you have:

[lola at davinci]# dmesg | grep '[hs]d[abcdefg]'

You should see things like hda1, hdc1, sda1 or the like (depending on
your motherboard/drive configuration).  In my case, I see this:

[   50.772016] hda: max request size: 512KiB
[   50.787907] hda: 234441648 sectors (120034 MB) w/8192KiB Cache,
CHS=16383/255/63, UDMA(33)
[   50.789957] hda: cache flushes supported
[   50.790027]  hda: hda1 hda2 < hda5 > hda3 hda4

And here's the entry in my "/etc/fstab" file:

/dev/hda1 /WinXP ntfs-3g defaults,force 0 0

cheers,
G-

On Feb 3, 2008 11:17 PM, John Harig <radiodurans at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'd like to see some discussion on virtualization,
> virtualbox, vmware . . . etc.  Also I'm having
> difficulty getting fuse to mount read and write an
> ntfs disk on my laptop if someone wants to help with
> that :).  Then I could start testing the
> virtualization stuff.
>
>
>
> --- Nick <mailtonick at gmail.com> wrote:



Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From geektoyz at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 19:12:43 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 19:12:43 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Febrary 2008 meeting
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550802060524j26a6aea2m8c72a2577d6c8667@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.440.1202177276.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<000201c867a4$b59b7220$20d25660$@com>
	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF09FB@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<cea1322a0802050617p6294c913kdbadd222911e295f@mail.gmail.com>
	<47A920F3.9050303@gmail.com>
	<e8898d550802060524j26a6aea2m8c72a2577d6c8667@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10802071612h70c01ec9maf0c3cb7ab409e5a@mail.gmail.com>

Either day is fine for me, if time permits.

G-

On Feb 6, 2008 8:24 AM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Same here, at least until spring.
>
>
> On Feb 5, 2008 9:52 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thursday is better for me than Tuesday
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Share and Enjoy
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb  8 12:37:49 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:37:49 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG February Meeting * NEW Date - Thursday Feb 21 6-8PM
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF0DCF@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Hello GRLUG.

Because of all of the e-mails I received that stated Thursday was a better night to hold meetings we're changing the date.
Next Thursday is Valentines Day so I went with the following Thursday Feb 21.
GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) February Meeting
Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com> so I can make sure to have enough.
Date and Time:
Thursday February 21st
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Location:
N-Vint, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
Suggested Discussion Topics:

Implementing Linux in the workplace
Virtualization, Virtualbox, Vmware
SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux
System and network security
How about a shell script tip of the month
Home automation (Google for Mr. House)

Steve and Doug were just a cople people that offered these topics.
Who can address which topics?

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."

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From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb  8 13:39:49 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:39:49 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Who updates the GRLUG wiki?
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF0DED@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Who is in charge of the GRLUG wiki updates?
Casey

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From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 13:56:26 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:56:26 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Who updates the GRLUG wiki?
In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF0DED@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF0DED@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802081056p4c38974aw52869c586f1c528f@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like I'd forgotten an account I've got an account on the wiki
dating back to 2006.  I can make the changes.

On Feb 8, 2008 1:39 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Who is in charge of the GRLUG wiki updates?
>
> Casey
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 14:06:57 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:06:57 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Who updates the GRLUG wiki?
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802081056p4c38974aw52869c586f1c528f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF0DED@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802081056p4c38974aw52869c586f1c528f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802081106m1c592a26id2c700838cbde875@mail.gmail.com>

Updated.  Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.

http://wiki.grlug.org/index.php?title=Main_Page#Thursday.2C_February_21st.2C_2008

I'd like to give the wiki layout some overhaul this weekend, if the
PTBs don't mind.

On Feb 8, 2008 1:56 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks like I'd forgotten an account I've got an account on the wiki
> dating back to 2006.  I can make the changes.
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 1:39 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Who is in charge of the GRLUG wiki updates?
> >
> > Casey
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
>



-- 
:wq

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 14:10:47 2008
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:10:47 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Linux in the Work Place
Message-ID: <81e08d920802081110m29a47b41sf12828758b6061dc@mail.gmail.com>

I came on board to a new place of employment with much the same
aspirations as most neo-sys-admins.
You know, "I'm gonna switch the whole lot of em over to Linux..."
Well, I have found that the easiest ones
to convince are the oldest. My most senior send users >55 are now all
die hard gentoo users and they
love KDE, Openoffice, Firefox and KMail (my fault there, I like more
than Thunderbird).

What will prove to be most difficult is the one who are addicted to
Adobe Creative Suite, and related products,
showing them Quanta is like showing a Pinto to someone who drives an
Escalade. And forget about trying
to get them to use a text editor. Not to mention those users cost the most too.

I just idly sit back and wait for their machines to break down, and
then exclaim that it will cost $500 bucks to get
a new one with all the software. Or I can pop a boot disk into an old
Pentium III and it will out perform
any dual core Vista Box, for FREE :-) Ooorahhh. Maybe not as shiny,
but definitely more productive. And FREE.

Why do I care what the company spends, I don't know that I do. I just
find it foolish and irresponsible of me NOT
to look for solutions that meet or exceed the needs, for our users for free.

Any way, I though I would share my conversion experience with you all.




-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 15:21:57 2008
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 15:21:57 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Off topic Sony Digital Betacam
Message-ID: <81e08d920802081221w2bb7fb82wcc25a9725c099b81@mail.gmail.com>

I have a sony Digital/Betacam tape that I need dubbed to VHS, or
preferably straight to avi.
If any one knows of a professional video editing firm that may have a
Betacam player, please
contact me off list a jdenick @ rtl.org

Thanks

-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny

From geektoyz at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 17:29:37 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:29:37 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Who updates the GRLUG wiki?
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802081106m1c592a26id2c700838cbde875@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF0DED@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802081056p4c38974aw52869c586f1c528f@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802081106m1c592a26id2c700838cbde875@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10802081429y17226579k669c625f06832fb7@mail.gmail.com>

I sure don't....  ;-)

G-

On Feb 8, 2008 2:06 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> Updated.  Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.
>
> http://wiki.grlug.org/index.php?title=Main_Page#Thursday.2C_February_21st.2C_2008
>
> I'd like to give the wiki layout some overhaul this weekend, if the
> PTBs don't mind.
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2008 1:56 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Looks like I'd forgotten an account I've got an account on the wiki
> > dating back to 2006.  I can make the changes.
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2008 1:39 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Who is in charge of the GRLUG wiki updates?
> > >
> > > Casey
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> >
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From mikemol at gmail.com  Sun Feb 10 17:44:24 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:44:24 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] wiki reworked.
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802101444t169879bcm90ae16384701604f@mail.gmail.com>

The wiki has been rerorganized.  The Main page now only has the next
meeting, and a link to meeting archives.  I also reworded the
introductory text.

Also...I noticed that http://grlug.org redirects to the wiki.  This
should probably be done with mod_rewrite, rather than an HTML refresh.

-- 
:wq

From verduin at ameritech.net  Sun Feb 10 20:39:41 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:39:41 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
Message-ID: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

Greetings from Grand Haven on a really-cold evening...

I have been stumped by FC-8 and its dependency on the motherboard.
The previous board was by Digiboard, the new one is by Tyan.
The short version of my past week(+) is that I am in the last stages of
replacing motherboard, power supply, and memory, after (I believe) an
electrolytic capacitor faulted and took those components with it.  The
good news is that the 3 hard drives, DVD R/W, and AMD processor, got
thru the event without damage that has shown up [yet].  Oh yes -- for
completeness the former single AMD MP 2000+ worked OK on the new MB for
the initial boots, but now has been replaced by a pair of MP 2600+ that
report no errors working in SMP.

I am operating on a "workstation" build of FC-8 [1/5/08 upgrade] based
on FC-7 [upgrade] from FC-6 [fresh start a year ago].  Many things work
just as before the event (for example: firefox, evolution, SMB,
boinc, ...), but Apache, moin-moin, CUPS, bind(?), fail.  The services
are active but not able to service requests.

Now I've reached "brain dead" after the nth time thru /var/log/... and
all my configuration notes from the past years...  I hope a little rest
and some conversation with this group might get rid of the blockage over
the next few days.

Here is my request: if moving a running system hardware-to-hardware has
revealed any subtle secrets to anyone in this list, I'd like to chat.
If I find nothing new in the next few days, my next approach is to
rebuild the system from scratch...

My history?  The first computer I touched was in 1963 at school.  Just
for grins before I began this mail I googled "bendix G-15".  The first
hit was from a museum and there was a picture of the relic -- that
triggered a few memories as "lab tech" and "maintenance man" in the math
department lab.  I have used computer applications of many types on many
hardware platforms ever since, and now in retirement I am my own IT
dept.  I'm a registered PE [electrical] and my history is largely as
user, a few years application developer [department manager], trainer
for other users, and IT specialist for an SCO UNIX platform.  Now Linux
platforms do everything I need except for Quicken and a few Media Player
things.  That keeps windoz in my coop.  My Linux intro was Red Hat 6 in
2000(+/-) and it has been a terrific hit.

I've looked thru the GRLUG archives a bit and I find this group peeks my
interest.  You guys [not demeaning gals] seem to be having a good time
pushing Linux to solve problems for users.  I hope you will have a chair
for me later this month at your meeting?

If you have read this far, thanks for your attention!  If you don't have
the answer I am looking for in hand, no problem  -- as you probably can
guess I'm simply trying to avoid going thru a fresh build and hooking up
the existing stuff all over again.  I don't find rebuild a trivial task,
but I've done it a few times.

Thanks for being there...

Warmest regards from here,
Skip


From darth_linux at ameritech.net  Sun Feb 10 20:46:45 2008
From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:46:45 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
In-Reply-To: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <200802102046.45850.darth_linux@ameritech.net>

On Sunday 10 February 2008 20:39:41 pm George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> Greetings from Grand Haven on a really-cold evening...
>
> I have been stumped by FC-8 and its dependency on the motherboard.
> The previous board was by Digiboard, the new one is by Tyan.
> The short version of my past week(+) is that I am in the last stages of
> replacing motherboard, power supply, and memory, after (I believe) an
> electrolytic capacitor faulted and took those components with it.  The
> good news is that the 3 hard drives, DVD R/W, and AMD processor, got
> thru the event without damage that has shown up [yet].  Oh yes -- for
> completeness the former single AMD MP 2000+ worked OK on the new MB for
> the initial boots, but now has been replaced by a pair of MP 2600+ that
> report no errors working in SMP.
>
> I am operating on a "workstation" build of FC-8 [1/5/08 upgrade] based
> on FC-7 [upgrade] from FC-6 [fresh start a year ago].  Many things work
> just as before the event (for example: firefox, evolution, SMB,
> boinc, ...), but Apache, moin-moin, CUPS, bind(?), fail.  The services
> are active but not able to service requests.
>
> Now I've reached "brain dead" after the nth time thru /var/log/... and
> all my configuration notes from the past years...  I hope a little rest
> and some conversation with this group might get rid of the blockage over
> the next few days.
>
> Here is my request: if moving a running system hardware-to-hardware has
> revealed any subtle secrets to anyone in this list, I'd like to chat.
> If I find nothing new in the next few days, my next approach is to
> rebuild the system from scratch...
>
> My history?  The first computer I touched was in 1963 at school.  Just
> for grins before I began this mail I googled "bendix G-15".  The first
> hit was from a museum and there was a picture of the relic -- that
> triggered a few memories as "lab tech" and "maintenance man" in the math
> department lab.  I have used computer applications of many types on many
> hardware platforms ever since, and now in retirement I am my own IT
> dept.  I'm a registered PE [electrical] and my history is largely as
> user, a few years application developer [department manager], trainer
> for other users, and IT specialist for an SCO UNIX platform.  Now Linux
> platforms do everything I need except for Quicken and a few Media Player
> things.  That keeps windoz in my coop.  My Linux intro was Red Hat 6 in
> 2000(+/-) and it has been a terrific hit.
>
> I've looked thru the GRLUG archives a bit and I find this group peeks my
> interest.  You guys [not demeaning gals] seem to be having a good time
> pushing Linux to solve problems for users.  I hope you will have a chair
> for me later this month at your meeting?
>
> If you have read this far, thanks for your attention!  If you don't have
> the answer I am looking for in hand, no problem  -- as you probably can
> guess I'm simply trying to avoid going thru a fresh build and hooking up
> the existing stuff all over again.  I don't find rebuild a trivial task,
> but I've done it a few times.
>
> Thanks for being there...
>
> Warmest regards from here,
> Skip
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

Welcome to the group! I can't help with your problem, but I bet someone else 
here can. 

eah 

From faeren at faeren.com  Sun Feb 10 21:13:29 2008
From: faeren at faeren.com (Faeren Madza)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:13:29 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
In-Reply-To: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <fbacd6020802101813t78034933qa9ba275ba1f39d5d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Skip,

I don't know if this will help you any, but here goes.

The other day I tried to revive a really old HDD with a build of SUSE
10 from a couple of years back but as soon as the kernel loaded, it
would stall.

After looking carefully at the logs, I saw that it was expecting my
storage devices to be /dev/hda* and not /dev/sda* like the new machine
was referring to them. Probably had to do with the new IDE controller.

Anyway, I booted up a rescue disc and changed the references of
/dev/hda to /dev/sda in a couple of spots in /etc and /boot. After
that, most things worked fine, but like with yours, several things are
wonky. In my situation though, it's pretty simple, I know all the
things that are failing are failing because of hard-coded references
to /dev/hda*

Perhaps you can look for similar wrong hardware references?

HTH.


Faeren.


On Feb 10, 2008 8:39 PM, George (Skip) VerDuin <verduin at ameritech.net> wrote:
> Greetings from Grand Haven on a really-cold evening...
>
> I have been stumped by FC-8 and its dependency on the motherboard.
> The previous board was by Digiboard, the new one is by Tyan.
> The short version of my past week(+) is that I am in the last stages of
> replacing motherboard, power supply, and memory, after (I believe) an
> electrolytic capacitor faulted and took those components with it.  The
> good news is that the 3 hard drives, DVD R/W, and AMD processor, got
> thru the event without damage that has shown up [yet].  Oh yes -- for
> completeness the former single AMD MP 2000+ worked OK on the new MB for
> the initial boots, but now has been replaced by a pair of MP 2600+ that
> report no errors working in SMP.
>
> I am operating on a "workstation" build of FC-8 [1/5/08 upgrade] based
> on FC-7 [upgrade] from FC-6 [fresh start a year ago].  Many things work
> just as before the event (for example: firefox, evolution, SMB,
> boinc, ...), but Apache, moin-moin, CUPS, bind(?), fail.  The services
> are active but not able to service requests.
>
> Now I've reached "brain dead" after the nth time thru /var/log/... and
> all my configuration notes from the past years...  I hope a little rest
> and some conversation with this group might get rid of the blockage over
> the next few days.
>
> Here is my request: if moving a running system hardware-to-hardware has
> revealed any subtle secrets to anyone in this list, I'd like to chat.
> If I find nothing new in the next few days, my next approach is to
> rebuild the system from scratch...
-----snip-----

From verduin at ameritech.net  Sun Feb 10 21:28:51 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:28:51 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
In-Reply-To: <fbacd6020802101813t78034933qa9ba275ba1f39d5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<fbacd6020802101813t78034933qa9ba275ba1f39d5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1202696931.2679.117.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

Wwwwow Faeren - that was quick:-)

On Sun, 2008-02-10 at 21:13 -0500, Faeren Madza wrote:
> Hello Skip,
>>SNIP<<
> Anyway, I booted up a rescue disc and changed the references of
> /dev/hda to /dev/sda in a couple of spots in /etc and /boot. After
> that, most things worked fine, but like with yours, several things are
> wonky. In my situation though, it's pretty simple, I know all the
> things that are failing are failing because of hard-coded references
> to /dev/hda*
The one thing I see like this is the nic array has been redefined by new
hardware / and the failures all have network in them.  I've been down
the configuration road to remove the old hardware references and
preserve (config) the new.  I must have done it wrong...

NIC remains an open topic and tomorrow (after the rest part) I'll
revisit routing stuff:-(

> 
> Perhaps you can look for similar wrong hardware references?
> 
> HTH.
> 
> 
> Faeren.

Thanks for reaffirming the hard-wired thing.
It's great to hear of your success doing something similar.

Warmest regards from here,
George


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 11 08:32:46 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:32:46 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
In-Reply-To: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47B04E7E.8050700@gmail.com>

George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> Greetings from Grand Haven on a really-cold evening...
>   
Hi, it is awfully cold this weekend.
> Here is my request: if moving a running system hardware-to-hardware has
> revealed any subtle secrets to anyone in this list, I'd like to chat.
> If I find nothing new in the next few days, my next approach is to
> rebuild the system from scratch...
>
>   
There is nothing intrinsically about linux that ties it to hardware. I 
had a gentoo webserver install that I physically moved must've been 5 
times, even changed arch from intel to amd. I just had to have the 
modules for the chipset and drive controllers available. You do not want 
to do disk io with the settings for your old motherboard. do an lspci 
and make sure that the modules selected are appropriate for your new 
hardware.
> My history?  The first computer I touched was in 1963 at school.  Just
> for grins before I began this mail I googled "bendix G-15".  The first
> hit was from a museum and there was a picture of the relic -- that
> triggered a few memories as "lab tech" and "maintenance man" in the math
> department lab.  I have used computer applications of many types on many
> hardware platforms ever since, and now in retirement I am my own IT
> dept.  I'm a registered PE [electrical] and my history is largely as
> user, a few years application developer [department manager], trainer
> for other users, and IT specialist for an SCO UNIX platform.  Now Linux
> platforms do everything I need except for Quicken and a few Media Player
> things.  That keeps windoz in my coop.  My Linux intro was Red Hat 6 in
> 2000(+/-) and it has been a terrific hit.
>
>   
Cool, neat experience. Did you see we are getting together this Thursday 
in Caledonia?

Steve

From verduin at ameritech.net  Mon Feb 11 23:37:18 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 04:37:18 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
In-Reply-To: <47B04E7E.8050700@gmail.com>
References: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47B04E7E.8050700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1202791038.2679.176.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

May I look fwd to meeting you in a couple days Steve?

On Mon, 2008-02-11 at 08:32 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
>>SNIP<<
> There is nothing intrinsically about linux that ties it to hardware. I 
> had a gentoo webserver install that I physically moved must've been 5 
> times, even changed arch from intel to amd. I just had to have the 
> modules for the chipset and drive controllers available. You do not want 
> to do disk io with the settings for your old motherboard. do an lspci 
> and make sure that the modules selected are appropriate for your new 
> hardware.
lspci is new to me, I'm liking what I see.  Well now -- here may be the
crux of my problem(?): while the lspci [with various parm sets] all
looks "normal" to me I wonder if I would *recognize* if it was in fact
demonstrating a flaw...

There is no substitute for experience -- I am limited at this depth:-(

>>SNIP<<
> Cool, neat experience. Did you see we are getting together this Thursday 
> in Caledonia?
The map looks straight forward enough...

> 
> Steve


Warmest regards from here,
Skip


From darth_linux at ameritech.net  Tue Feb 12 08:36:34 2008
From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (darth_linux at ameritech.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:36:34 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] In need of guest speaker(s)
Message-ID: <021220081336.16934.47B1A0E2000DB4EA0000422622230647029B0A02D2080C0A9B079D0A030EBF989A020704A1089B9D0E0B@att.net>

hello all, 

I am looking for a few guest speakers that can present some material on web or programming technologies you are currently using in Industry. The presentations would be in front of undergraduate students at ITT Tech in Grand Rapids, MI. The group You could present any material related to Linux, software development, or web technologies and could last up to 4 hours if you so choose. The idea here is to use the local community and industry to lend insight into the current state of the material the students are being exposed to. 

thanks in advance, all you volunteers. :-) 

Eric Hartwell 

From jtr at jrichards.org  Tue Feb 12 10:04:59 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:04:59 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
In-Reply-To: <1202791038.2679.176.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47B04E7E.8050700@gmail.com>
	<1202791038.2679.176.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <20080212150459.GA9224@jrichards.org>

On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 04:37:18AM +0000, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
[snip]
> lspci is new to me, I'm liking what I see.  Well now -- here may be the
> crux of my problem(?): while the lspci [with various parm sets] all
> looks "normal" to me I wonder if I would *recognize* if it was in fact
> demonstrating a flaw...
> 
> There is no substitute for experience -- I am limited at this depth:-(

I remember learning 'ls' on a SCO UNIX (hey...there weren't *always*
evil) box.  We were all new at some point.  The key is a willingness to
learn and ask good questions.  :-)
-- 
john-thomas
------
If money be not thy servant, it will be thy master. The covetous man
cannot so properly be said to possess wealth, as that may be said to
possess him.
Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 10:44:52 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:44:52 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Self introduction and plea
In-Reply-To: <1202791038.2679.176.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1202693981.2679.105.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>	<47B04E7E.8050700@gmail.com>
	<1202791038.2679.176.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47B1BEF4.90409@gmail.com>

George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> May I look fwd to meeting you in a couple days Steve?
>
> On Mon, 2008-02-11 at 08:32 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
>   
>>> SNIP<<
>>>       
>> There is nothing intrinsically about linux that ties it to hardware. I 
>> had a gentoo webserver install that I physically moved must've been 5 
>> times, even changed arch from intel to amd. I just had to have the 
>> modules for the chipset and drive controllers available. You do not want 
>> to do disk io with the settings for your old motherboard. do an lspci 
>> and make sure that the modules selected are appropriate for your new 
>> hardware.
>>     
> lspci is new to me, I'm liking what I see.  Well now -- here may be the
> crux of my problem(?): while the lspci [with various parm sets] all
> looks "normal" to me I wonder if I would *recognize* if it was in fact
> demonstrating a flaw...
>
> There is no substitute for experience -- I am limited at this depth:-(
>
>   
>>> SNIP<<
>>>       
>> Cool, neat experience. Did you see we are getting together this Thursday 
>> in Caledonia?
>>     
> The map looks straight forward enough...
>
>   
>> Steve
>>     
>
>
> Warmest regards from here,
> Skip
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   

Along with lspci, there are lsusb, and lsmod that are helpful for the 
same reason. Add a -v option and they giver verbose output.

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 14:16:37 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:16:37 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] zonbu?
Message-ID: <47B1F095.5060808@gmail.com>

I am considering getting a zonbu pc for my inlaws.  Anyone had any good 
or bad experiences with them?

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Tue Feb 12 18:01:45 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:01:45 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] zonbu?
In-Reply-To: <47B1F095.5060808@gmail.com>
References: <47B1F095.5060808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1202857305.8708.46.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 14:16 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
> I am considering getting a zonbu pc for my inlaws.  Anyone had any good 
> or bad experiences with them?

John "Maddog" Hall is really making this project work. Its got real
"life-signs" that actually are on track to be fully life-sustaining for
the company.

Just make sure you realize its limitations and features before you delve
into it.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From ben at eavey.com  Tue Feb 12 18:44:57 2008
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:44:57 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Off-Topic: Small favor to ask for my dad
Message-ID: <47B22F79.4080900@eavey.com>

Hello GRLUGgers,

Sorry for this mini-spam, and I hope this isn't abusing the group too 
much, but here goes...

I spent a lot of years trying to get my dad back into computers, and he 
finally did it, which is great.  He started on Apple IIe machines 20 
years ago, but after they died out, so did his interest in computers. 
Now he's back at it again, which is cool, and I want to support his 
habit.  :)

Anyway, he entered a photo contest, and he needs people to rate his 
photo and comment on it so he has a shot at winning.  And he needs your 
help today.  It's actually a pretty good photo.  Anyway, if you're 
willing, go here:

http://www.snapseeker.com/entry/deadly-beauty

Rate the photo and say something nice.  Again, I know this might be 
abusing the group a little bit, but I'm just excited to see him trying 
this out.  If you want to flail me, I understand.

Thanks, everybody...

-Ben in Kentwood

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 12 20:41:21 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:41:21 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] zonbu?
In-Reply-To: <1202857305.8708.46.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <47B1F095.5060808@gmail.com>
	<1202857305.8708.46.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <47B24AC1.5030200@gmail.com>

Greg Folkert wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-02-12 at 14:16 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
>   
>> I am considering getting a zonbu pc for my inlaws.  Anyone had any good 
>> or bad experiences with them?
>>     
>
> John "Maddog" Hall is really making this project work. Its got real
> "life-signs" that actually are on track to be fully life-sustaining for
> the company.
>
> Just make sure you realize its limitations and features before you delve
> into it.
>   
>   
I didn't realize he was involved.  That makes me feel better.

I have seen the semi-negative review on wsj.com.

I'd really like to see one in person.  SOmeone want to buy one so I can 
take a peek? :)

From jbillingsle01 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 12:04:01 2008
From: jbillingsle01 at gmail.com (Jacob Billingsley)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:04:01 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Off-Topic: Small favor to ask for my dad
In-Reply-To: <47B22F79.4080900@eavey.com>
References: <47B22F79.4080900@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <002f01c86e62$6f870870$4e951950$@com>

As long as you setup him up on a nice linux box and not a windoz one I won't
have the urge to flame you! :)

-----Original Message-----
From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
Benjamin Eavey
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:45 PM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: [GRLUG] Off-Topic: Small favor to ask for my dad

Hello GRLUGgers,

Sorry for this mini-spam, and I hope this isn't abusing the group too 
much, but here goes...

I spent a lot of years trying to get my dad back into computers, and he 
finally did it, which is great.  He started on Apple IIe machines 20 
years ago, but after they died out, so did his interest in computers. 
Now he's back at it again, which is cool, and I want to support his 
habit.  :)

Anyway, he entered a photo contest, and he needs people to rate his 
photo and comment on it so he has a shot at winning.  And he needs your 
help today.  It's actually a pretty good photo.  Anyway, if you're 
willing, go here:

http://www.snapseeker.com/entry/deadly-beauty

Rate the photo and say something nice.  Again, I know this might be 
abusing the group a little bit, but I'm just excited to see him trying 
this out.  If you want to flail me, I understand.

Thanks, everybody...

-Ben in Kentwood
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From cdubois at n-vint.com  Thu Feb 14 09:56:30 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:56:30 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] *Reminder GRLUG Meeting *Next Week - Thursday Feb 21 6-8PM
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF1184@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Happy Valentines Day GRLUG,
*REMINDER*
GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) February Meeting
Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com> so I can make sure to have enough.
Date and Time:
Thursday February 21st
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Location:
N-Vint, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
Suggested Discussion Topics:

Implementing Linux in the workplace
Virtualization, Virtualbox, Vmware
SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux
System and network security
How about a shell script tip of the month
Home automation (Google for Mr. House)

Steve and Doug were just a cople people that offered these topics.
Who can address which topics?

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."

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From cdubois at n-vint.com  Thu Feb 14 10:28:42 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:28:42 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Meeting Topics
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6CF1195@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Hi All,
I'm working on meeting topics and have the following suggested discussion topics:
Implementing Linux in the workplace
Virtualization, Virtualbox, Vmware
SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux
System and network security
How about a shell script tip of the month
Home automation (Google for Mr. House)

Who can address which topics?

Any Suggestions or comments?

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."

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From topher at wcsg.org  Thu Feb 14 15:18:30 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:18:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>

I've used a live cd to salvage data from a currupted XP drive many times, 
but now that Vista is more popular my friends are asking me to save THOSE 
too.

Anyone know if the whole live cd thing will work with a machine running 
vista as the primary OS?  Any problems booting the cd, or mounting the 
hard drive once I'm loaded?

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 15:33:25 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:33:25 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802141233g9f6467et396d933f18a640af@mail.gmail.com>

So long as you've set BIOS to boot from CD before booting from the
hard drive, Vista won't get in the way of booting.

I don't *believe* Vista's NTFS is significantly incompatible with XP's
NTFS, but I'm not sure; You should check the compatibility list for
the version of ntfs-3g you'll be using.  At work, we normally use
BartPE for recovering Windows boxes, and tools designed around WinXP's
NTFS seem to work just fine with Vista Ultimate.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Topher <topher at wcsg.org> wrote:
> I've used a live cd to salvage data from a currupted XP drive many times,
>  but now that Vista is more popular my friends are asking me to save THOSE
>  too.
>
>  Anyone know if the whole live cd thing will work with a machine running
>  vista as the primary OS?  Any problems booting the cd, or mounting the
>  hard drive once I'm loaded?
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq

From topher at wcsg.org  Thu Feb 14 15:45:33 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:45:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802141233g9f6467et396d933f18a640af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
	<f5e00c450802141233g9f6467et396d933f18a640af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141544500.5621@localhost>

> the version of ntfs-3g you'll be using.  At work, we normally use
> BartPE for recovering Windows boxes, and tools designed around WinXP's
> NTFS seem to work just fine with Vista Ultimate.

I've never heard of Bart, would it be better for scraping data of a dead 
disk than a Linux live cd?

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 15:51:55 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:51:55 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141544500.5621@localhost>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
	<f5e00c450802141233g9f6467et396d933f18a640af@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141544500.5621@localhost>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802141251g540e690fi2d816c8559df209e@mail.gmail.com>

BartPE creates a Windows LiveCD out of an existing Windows box.  If
Windows can't read the disk, then BartPE probably won't do much
better.  However, if you've got a Windows tool that can still read and
recover data from the disk, then that's one way to go.

Ultimately, using BartPE isn't significantly different from dropping
the drive into a working Windows box.

Use the tools you're familiar with, first.  That's the only
recommendation I can really make.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Topher <topher at wcsg.org> wrote:
> > the version of ntfs-3g you'll be using.  At work, we normally use
>  > BartPE for recovering Windows boxes, and tools designed around WinXP's
>  > NTFS seem to work just fine with Vista Ultimate.
>
>  I've never heard of Bart, would it be better for scraping data of a dead
>  disk than a Linux live cd?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq

From geektoyz at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 17:51:22 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:51:22 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802141251g540e690fi2d816c8559df209e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
	<f5e00c450802141233g9f6467et396d933f18a640af@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141544500.5621@localhost>
	<f5e00c450802141251g540e690fi2d816c8559df209e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10802141451s49e8b2a1ve5305d1941c50894@mail.gmail.com>

I created a BartPE disk ages ago from WinXP and, basically, the only
good use I've found for it is when disk/data corruptions occurs and
you end up with tons of files/folders with ridiculously wierd names
which give bash a run for its money to try to delete.  Even if you go
to a top level directory and try to "rm -rf" recursively delete a
directory tree, it still pukes.  The BartPE windows environment has
deleted those and even renamed a few just fine.  Plus, you can run
things like scandisk and the like.

G-

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> BartPE creates a Windows LiveCD out of an existing Windows box.  If
>  Windows can't read the disk, then BartPE probably won't do much
>  better.  However, if you've got a Windows tool that can still read and
>  recover data from the disk, then that's one way to go.
>
>  Ultimately, using BartPE isn't significantly different from dropping
>  the drive into a working Windows box.
>
>  Use the tools you're familiar with, first.  That's the only
>  recommendation I can really make.
>
>
>
>  On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Topher <topher at wcsg.org> wrote:
>  > > the version of ntfs-3g you'll be using.  At work, we normally use
>  >  > BartPE for recovering Windows boxes, and tools designed around WinXP's
>  >  > NTFS seem to work just fine with Vista Ultimate.
>  >
>  >  I've never heard of Bart, would it be better for scraping data of a dead
>  >  disk than a Linux live cd?
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  >  grlug mailing list
>  >  grlug at grlug.org
>  >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  :wq
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 19:21:29 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:21:29 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
Message-ID: <47B4DB09.1000400@gmail.com>

Topher wrote:
> I've used a live cd to salvage data from a currupted XP drive many times, 
> but now that Vista is more popular my friends are asking me to save THOSE 
> too.
>
> Anyone know if the whole live cd thing will work with a machine running 
> vista as the primary OS?  Any problems booting the cd, or mounting the 
> hard drive once I'm loaded?
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   
I read/write to my vista ntfs partition on my dual boot machine, so I 
would think that a livecd with the same capabilities wouldnt have 
problems, at least for data recovery.  not sure about any real repair 
capability.

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 22:48:08 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:48:08 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>

My grandmother has an email account, but doesn't use the computer to
check it. Instead, she wants me to.  I'd like to set up a cron script
to automatically POP her email, and then print it out.

fetchmail is an obvious tool for grabbing the mail, but I'm at a loss
for ideas on programs that can print HTML emails from the
command-line.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

-- 
:wq

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 22:59:26 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B50E1E.60500@gmail.com>

Michael Mol wrote:
> My grandmother has an email account, but doesn't use the computer to
> check it. Instead, she wants me to.  I'd like to set up a cron script
> to automatically POP her email, and then print it out.
>
> fetchmail is an obvious tool for grabbing the mail, but I'm at a loss
> for ideas on programs that can print HTML emails from the
> command-line.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
>   
sth like this might be a start.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-June/265272.html

maybe you can install spamassassin, and then check the headers and dont 
print any that are of suspicious nature.

or

fetchmail to procmail to lp

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~ian/procmail.html

wow, umbc, used to live right next door.  ;)

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 23:21:22 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:21:22 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <47B50E1E.60500@gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B50E1E.60500@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802142021t76365636of49bb46f91050cd5@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Michael Mol wrote:
>  > My grandmother has an email account, but doesn't use the computer to
>  > check it. Instead, she wants me to.  I'd like to set up a cron script
>  > to automatically POP her email, and then print it out.
>  >
>  > fetchmail is an obvious tool for grabbing the mail, but I'm at a loss
>  > for ideas on programs that can print HTML emails from the
>  > command-line.
>  >
>  > Does anyone have any suggestions?
>  >
>  >
>  sth like this might be a start.
>
>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2004-June/265272.html
>
>  maybe you can install spamassassin, and then check the headers and dont
>  print any that are of suspicious nature.
>
>  or
>
>  fetchmail to procmail to lp
>
>  http://userpages.umbc.edu/~ian/procmail.html
>
>  wow, umbc, used to live right next door.  ;)

I'm not worried about spam.  It's a Gmail address, and she gets
perhaps one or two junk emails a month.

I'm handy enough with Perl et al to handle mbox; It's having something
that can render the emails without an X display that I'm worried
about.

-- 
:wq

From jeffd at i2k.com  Fri Feb 15 00:31:15 2008
From: jeffd at i2k.com (Jeff DeFouw)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:31:15 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802142021t76365636of49bb46f91050cd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B50E1E.60500@gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802142021t76365636of49bb46f91050cd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080215053115.GA18583@blorp.plorb.com>

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:21:22PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote:
> My grandmother has an email account, but doesn't use the computer to
> check it. Instead, she wants me to.  I'd like to set up a cron script
> to automatically POP her email, and then print it out.
> 
> I'm not worried about spam.  It's a Gmail address, and she gets
> perhaps one or two junk emails a month.
> 
> I'm handy enough with Perl et al to handle mbox; It's having something
> that can render the emails without an X display that I'm worried
> about.

Everything I've seen that you might be able to get to work uses X.  
Could you use a virtual X server (Xvfb)?

There are several Firefox extensions for automated printing, but not 
from the command line.  Maybe with a bit more code they could.  Or maybe 
you could control the window with a script.  You could also save the 
page to an image with the Screengrab extension, but there's no 
command-line interface.  There's a commercial extension that will save a 
web page to an image from a command line, but I don't see a built-in 
print function.

There's a program called khtml2png that uses KDE libs to convert web 
pages to images.  It doesn't need to show a window but it probably still 
needs X.  You might be able to print the resulting images.

Also in KDE land, Konqueror can be easily controlled remotely.  Here's a 
thread that describes printing a page:
http://www.nabble.com/Automating-firefox-td14785985.html
(Scroll to the bottom of the page.)

-- 
Jeff DeFouw <jeffd at i2k.com>

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 01:10:40 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:10:40 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <20080215053115.GA18583@blorp.plorb.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B50E1E.60500@gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802142021t76365636of49bb46f91050cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080215053115.GA18583@blorp.plorb.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802142210r3b88eff4yc966f8d0348068fc@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Jeff DeFouw <jeffd at i2k.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:21:22PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote:
>  > My grandmother has an email account, but doesn't use the computer to
>  > check it. Instead, she wants me to.  I'd like to set up a cron script
>  > to automatically POP her email, and then print it out.
>  >
>
> > I'm not worried about spam.  It's a Gmail address, and she gets
>  > perhaps one or two junk emails a month.
>  >
>  > I'm handy enough with Perl et al to handle mbox; It's having something
>  > that can render the emails without an X display that I'm worried
>  > about.
>
>  Everything I've seen that you might be able to get to work uses X.
>  Could you use a virtual X server (Xvfb)?
>
>  There are several Firefox extensions for automated printing, but not
>  from the command line.  Maybe with a bit more code they could.  Or maybe
>  you could control the window with a script.  You could also save the
>  page to an image with the Screengrab extension, but there's no
>  command-line interface.  There's a commercial extension that will save a
>  web page to an image from a command line, but I don't see a built-in
>  print function.
>
>  There's a program called khtml2png that uses KDE libs to convert web
>  pages to images.  It doesn't need to show a window but it probably still
>  needs X.  You might be able to print the resulting images.
>
>  Also in KDE land, Konqueror can be easily controlled remotely.  Here's a
>  thread that describes printing a page:
>  http://www.nabble.com/Automating-firefox-td14785985.html
>  (Scroll to the bottom of the page.)


khtml2png looks like it'll do what I need, if I add Xvfb.  Thanks. :-)


-- 
:wq

From brousch at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 08:06:56 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:06:56 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930802150506v45c8af32q347441e639880267@mail.gmail.com>

>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>

You could hint to your grandma what a technical and time-consuming burden
she is placing on her favorite grandson. This should be sufficient to
motivate most grandparents to learn how to check email. ;)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Fri Feb 15 09:28:02 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:28:02 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802142021t76365636of49bb46f91050cd5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B50E1E.60500@gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802142021t76365636of49bb46f91050cd5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080215142802.GA27775@jrichards.org>

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:21:22PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Michael Mol wrote:
[snip]
> 
> I'm not worried about spam.  It's a Gmail address, and she gets
> perhaps one or two junk emails a month.
> 
> I'm handy enough with Perl et al to handle mbox; It's having something
> that can render the emails without an X display that I'm worried
> about.

Since you are handy with perl, why not try 'html2ps'?  It converts an
html file to a postscript file.  html2ps is a perl script.

http://user.it.uu.se/~jan/html2ps.html
-- 
john-thomas
------
They know enough who know how to learn.
Henry Adams (1838-1918)

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 11:32:45 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:32:45 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930802150506v45c8af32q347441e639880267@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d92a2d930802150506v45c8af32q347441e639880267@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802150832h6567b9fcj40068b03648c41d2@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have any suggestions?
> >
>
> You could hint to your grandma what a technical and time-consuming burden
> she is placing on her favorite grandson. This should be sufficient to
> motivate most grandparents to learn how to check email. ;)

Not really an option, for a variety of reasons including medical
(she's simply too tired most of the time), technical(I don't want to
set up a Windows box with Outlook Express, which is the only client
she's ever managed to learn.), and organizational( The only online PC
currently is mine, and the floor is too often treacherous.).

Besides...I code for fun.  And this is fun. :-)

-- 
:wq

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 11:35:28 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:35:28 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <20080215142802.GA27775@jrichards.org>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B50E1E.60500@gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802142021t76365636of49bb46f91050cd5@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080215142802.GA27775@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802150835y491c8535n565088c9d95d0e42@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 9:28 AM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 11:21:22PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > > Michael Mol wrote:
>  [snip]
>
> >
>  > I'm not worried about spam.  It's a Gmail address, and she gets
>  > perhaps one or two junk emails a month.
>  >
>  > I'm handy enough with Perl et al to handle mbox; It's having something
>  > that can render the emails without an X display that I'm worried
>  > about.
>
>  Since you are handy with perl, why not try 'html2ps'?  It converts an
>  html file to a postscript file.  html2ps is a perl script.

Interesting.  I'll look at that, too.  Might save me needing to work with Xvfb.


-- 
:wq

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 14:29:18 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:29:18 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802150832h6567b9fcj40068b03648c41d2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>	<d92a2d930802150506v45c8af32q347441e639880267@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802150832h6567b9fcj40068b03648c41d2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47B5E80E.6090408@gmail.com>

Michael Mol wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>>> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>>>
>>>       
>> You could hint to your grandma what a technical and time-consuming burden
>> she is placing on her favorite grandson. This should be sufficient to
>> motivate most grandparents to learn how to check email. ;)
>>     
>
> Not really an option, for a variety of reasons including medical
> (she's simply too tired most of the time), technical(I don't want to
> set up a Windows box with Outlook Express, which is the only client
> she's ever managed to learn.), and organizational( The only online PC
> currently is mine, and the floor is too often treacherous.).
>
> Besides...I code for fun.  And this is fun. :-)
>
>   
send it to festival and have it read to her?

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 14:32:23 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:32:23 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <47B5E80E.6090408@gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d92a2d930802150506v45c8af32q347441e639880267@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802150832h6567b9fcj40068b03648c41d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B5E80E.6090408@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802151132w29fbfdbehd5fb8366638a8d36@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Michael Mol wrote:
>  > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >>> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >> You could hint to your grandma what a technical and time-consuming burden
>  >> she is placing on her favorite grandson. This should be sufficient to
>  >> motivate most grandparents to learn how to check email. ;)
>  >>
>  >
>  > Not really an option, for a variety of reasons including medical
>  > (she's simply too tired most of the time), technical(I don't want to
>  > set up a Windows box with Outlook Express, which is the only client
>  > she's ever managed to learn.), and organizational( The only online PC
>  > currently is mine, and the floor is too often treacherous.).
>  >
>  > Besides...I code for fun.  And this is fun. :-)
>  >
>  >
>  send it to festival and have it read to her?

I'd have to deal with rewind/replay issues.  Also, family members
frequently email pictures, hardcopies of which are a useful
side-effect of the exercise.

-- 
:wq

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Fri Feb 15 15:23:03 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:23:03 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Ruby programmers?
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0802151223v325fd76ch3b72c0010526fdc1@mail.gmail.com>

Any Ruby folks on the list?

I'm looking for some minor assistance on a sort of revolutionary
project of mine...  GPL of course.  And there may even be some paid
time in it for the right person.

Anyone who's interested, let me know and we can talk off-list about the details.

--tim

From investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us  Fri Feb 15 19:17:44 2008
From: investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us (Brad Becker)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:17:44 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] off topic - relocating to GR
Message-ID: <200802151717.44890.investmgmt@s91195370.onlinehome.us>

Hey guys I plan to relocate to GR and have a few questions.  If you know the 
area pretty well mind contacting me offlist?  Thanks.

Brad Becker
----------------
CPU[AMD Sempron 2800+ clocked at 2363.144 Mhz]  Kernel[Linux 
2.6.23.1-slh64-smp-9 x86_64]  Up[-76days-]  Mem[-302.6/499.5MB-]  
HDD[-9GB(45%used)-]  Procs[-84-]  Client[Shell]

From mikemol at gmail.com  Sat Feb 16 15:22:40 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:22:40 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] [CLASSIFIED] Used rack cabinet?
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802161222q4e911241yf63c892508e5403@mail.gmail.com>

The GRCC Computer Club is looking to purchase a used rack cabinet.  If
anyone has something available they think might be useful, please drop
a line to profinuyasha at gmail.com

-- 
:wq

From verduin at ameritech.net  Sat Feb 16 16:41:16 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:41:16 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] [CLASSIFIED] Used rack cabinet?
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802161222q4e911241yf63c892508e5403@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802161222q4e911241yf63c892508e5403@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203198076.2642.170.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

A maybe meaningless response:  I have a [no-cost] back door only.
Anyone having a tall [about 6-ft] open-back 19in rack is welcome to it.
The rack itself has walked off somewhere years ago...:-(
(sorry)

On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 15:22 -0500, Michael Mol wrote:
> The GRCC Computer Club is looking to purchase a used rack cabinet.  If
> anyone has something available they think might be useful, please drop
> a line to profinuyasha at gmail.com
> 

Warmest regards from here,
Skip


From geektoyz at gmail.com  Sat Feb 16 18:19:46 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:19:46 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802151132w29fbfdbehd5fb8366638a8d36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d92a2d930802150506v45c8af32q347441e639880267@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802150832h6567b9fcj40068b03648c41d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B5E80E.6090408@gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802151132w29fbfdbehd5fb8366638a8d36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10802161519u44702b4ehfb23ca1132f54fdf@mail.gmail.com>

There's always the "html2text" converter...  ;-)

html2ps      1.0b5-2                              HTML to PostScript converter
html2text    1.3.2a-3                             An advanced HTML
totext converter

G-



On Feb 15, 2008 2:32 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Michael Mol wrote:
> >  > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  >
> >  >>> Does anyone have any suggestions?
> >  >>>
> >  >>>
> >  >> You could hint to your grandma what a technical and time-consuming burden
> >  >> she is placing on her favorite grandson. This should be sufficient to
> >  >> motivate most grandparents to learn how to check email. ;)
> >  >>
> >  >
> >  > Not really an option, for a variety of reasons including medical
> >  > (she's simply too tired most of the time), technical(I don't want to
> >  > set up a Windows box with Outlook Express, which is the only client
> >  > she's ever managed to learn.), and organizational( The only online PC
> >  > currently is mine, and the floor is too often treacherous.).
> >  >
> >  > Besides...I code for fun.  And this is fun. :-)
> >  >
> >  >
> >  send it to festival and have it read to her?
>
> I'd have to deal with rewind/replay issues.  Also, family members
> frequently email pictures, hardcopies of which are a useful
> side-effect of the exercise.
>
> --
> :wq
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From geektoyz at gmail.com  Sat Feb 16 18:34:28 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:34:28 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Printing HTML emails from the command line
In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10802161519u44702b4ehfb23ca1132f54fdf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450802141948q1c48ddb1naf59d349f35c25f1@mail.gmail.com>
	<d92a2d930802150506v45c8af32q347441e639880267@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802150832h6567b9fcj40068b03648c41d2@mail.gmail.com>
	<47B5E80E.6090408@gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802151132w29fbfdbehd5fb8366638a8d36@mail.gmail.com>
	<8b72b8d10802161519u44702b4ehfb23ca1132f54fdf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10802161534g2325a979v6492b349679b037f@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, I just tried both commands:

nas1:~# html2text http://userpages.umbc.edu/~ian/procmail.html |lpr
nas1:~# html2ps http://userpages.umbc.edu/~ian/procmail.html |lpr

The "html2ps" produced a much, much nicer output on an HP Laserjet 9000.

G-


On Feb 16, 2008 6:19 PM, Godwin <geektoyz at gmail.com> wrote:
> There's always the "html2text" converter...  ;-)
>
> html2ps      1.0b5-2                              HTML to PostScript converter
> html2text    1.3.2a-3                             An advanced HTML
> totext converter
>
> G-
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2008 2:32 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Michael Mol wrote:
> > >  > On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >  >
> > >  >>> Does anyone have any suggestions?
> > >  >>>
> > >  >>>
> > >  >> You could hint to your grandma what a technical and time-consuming burden
> > >  >> she is placing on her favorite grandson. This should be sufficient to
> > >  >> motivate most grandparents to learn how to check email. ;)
> > >  >>
> > >  >
> > >  > Not really an option, for a variety of reasons including medical
> > >  > (she's simply too tired most of the time), technical(I don't want to
> > >  > set up a Windows box with Outlook Express, which is the only client
> > >  > she's ever managed to learn.), and organizational( The only online PC
> > >  > currently is mine, and the floor is too often treacherous.).
> > >  >
> > >  > Besides...I code for fun.  And this is fun. :-)
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  send it to festival and have it read to her?
> >
> > I'd have to deal with rewind/replay issues.  Also, family members
> > frequently email pictures, hardcopies of which are a useful
> > side-effect of the exercise.
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Ubber::Geek
> http://grlug.org/
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From topher at wcsg.org  Sun Feb 17 10:55:29 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:55:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <47B4DB09.1000400@gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
	<47B4DB09.1000400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802171053440.6666@localhost>

>> I've used a live cd to salvage data from a currupted XP drive many 
>> times, but now that Vista is more popular my friends are asking me to 
>> save THOSE too.

For the record, Ubuntu Feisty couldn't start X, and Knoppix 4 couldn't 
find the hard drive.  Knoppix 5.1 did everything perfectly.

Mostly unrelated, I've typically used live cds to scrape data off of old 
dead machines, which are typically pretty slow.  Knoppix was REALLY snappy 
on a high end 64bit proc with 2G of ram.

From faeren at faeren.com  Sun Feb 17 11:57:27 2008
From: faeren at faeren.com (Faeren Madza)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:57:27 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802171053440.6666@localhost>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
	<47B4DB09.1000400@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.82.0802171053440.6666@localhost>
Message-ID: <fbacd6020802170857s6b2c1348ucb8140d7cf8f3a24@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Topher,

I suppose your success with it would depend on what's wrong with the
Windows OS. As others have mentioned, BartPE or any other flavor of
Windows PE really...you can think of them as Windows live discs.
Although you;re looking at a limited set of utilities compared to a
full-fledged Linux live disc, it has enough to manage files,
mount/edit registry hives, analyze crashes, clone hard drives, burn
discs, scan for viruses, mount a network location as a share to
copy/move data to...etc.

In truth, you can use the PE builder to add whatever plugins/utilities
you would like. It even has a cool feature that will let you transfer
your PE image on to a USB stick and make it bootable.

I think I have an ISO somewhere that I created a couple of years back.
If you're unable to create your own, let me know and I'll find it for
you.


Faeren.


On Feb 17, 2008 10:55 AM, Topher <topher at wcsg.org> wrote:
> >> I've used a live cd to salvage data from a currupted XP drive many
> >> times, but now that Vista is more popular my friends are asking me to
> >> save THOSE too.

> For the record, Ubuntu Feisty couldn't start X, and Knoppix 4 couldn't
> find the hard drive.  Knoppix 5.1 did everything perfectly.
>
> Mostly unrelated, I've typically used live cds to scrape data off of old
> dead machines, which are typically pretty slow.  Knoppix was REALLY snappy
> on a high end 64bit proc with 2G of ram.

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sun Feb 17 12:01:29 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 12:01:29 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] live cd on vista?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802171053440.6666@localhost>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0802141514440.5621@localhost>
	<47B4DB09.1000400@gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.82.0802171053440.6666@localhost>
Message-ID: <1203267689.12209.39.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Sun, 2008-02-17 at 10:55 -0500, Topher wrote:
> >> I've used a live cd to salvage data from a currupted XP drive many 
> >> times, but now that Vista is more popular my friends are asking me to 
> >> save THOSE too.
> 
> For the record, Ubuntu Feisty couldn't start X, and Knoppix 4 couldn't 
> find the hard drive.  Knoppix 5.1 did everything perfectly.
> 
> Mostly unrelated, I've typically used live cds to scrape data off of old 
> dead machines, which are typically pretty slow.  Knoppix was REALLY snappy 
> on a high end 64bit proc with 2G of ram.

You should install it on a similar machine. You'd be surprised.

And even though its got tons of "custom stuff", it is maintainable. Just
not in the "Pointy, Clicky, Ubuntu way" but its a good release no matter
what.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Tue Feb 19 13:15:49 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:15:49 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] off-topic: ER episodes
Message-ID: <20080219181549.GA7559@jrichards.org>

I am looking for a copy of an episode of ER that aired in January
("Atonement", about Dr. Truman dying, Neela and gang play hockey,
etc.).  Anyone here record it on your mythtv/dvr?
-- 
john-thomas
------
I'm not altogether sure what world war three will be fought with, but no
matter what it is, world war four will be fought with sticks and rocks.
Albert Einstein

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Wed Feb 20 10:12:05 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:12:05 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] *Reminder*  GRLUG Meeting - Tomorrow - Thursday, Feb 21,
	6-8PM
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D2CA@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

*REMINDER*
GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) February Meeting
Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough.
Date and Time:
Thursday February 21st
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Location:
N-Vint, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
Suggested Discussion Topics:

Implementing Linux in the workplace
Virtualization, Virtualbox, Vmware
SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux
System and network security
How about a shell script tip of the month
Home automation (Google for Mr. House)

Steve and Doug were just a cople people that offered these topics.
Who can address which topics?

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."


From matt at michielsen.us  Wed Feb 20 17:35:56 2008
From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:35:56 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] *Reminder* GRLUG Meeting - Tomorrow - Thursday, Feb 21,
	6-8PM
In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D2CA@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D2CA@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <faf758920802201435o5f9dc554jaa715057e07c6546@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone want to carpool from Holland/Zeeland?

-mm

On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:

> *REMINDER*
> GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) February Meeting
> Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make
> sure to have enough.
> Date and Time:
> Thursday February 21st
> 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)
>
> Location:
> N-Vint, Inc.
> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
> Suggested Discussion Topics:
>
> Implementing Linux in the workplace
> Virtualization, Virtualbox, Vmware
> SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux
> System and network security
> How about a shell script tip of the month
> Home automation (Google for Mr. House)
>
> Steve and Doug were just a cople people that offered these topics.
> Who can address which topics?
>
> Sincerely,
> Casey M. DuBois
> N-VINT, Inc.
> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
> 616-656-5500 Office
> 866-337-2686 Direct
> AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
> cdubois at n-vint.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From savalase at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 18:13:26 2008
From: savalase at gmail.com (sergio savala)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:13:26 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] *Reminder* GRLUG Meeting - Tomorrow - Thursday, Feb 21,
	6-8PM
In-Reply-To: <faf758920802201435o5f9dc554jaa715057e07c6546@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D2CA@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<faf758920802201435o5f9dc554jaa715057e07c6546@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78ba3d710802201513w379b5658n55ec59875ae266e5@mail.gmail.com>

Hey guys i live in hudsonville but i cant make it im new to the group.
I would carpool if i could go.


On 2/20/08, Matt Michielsen <matt at michielsen.us> wrote:
>
> Does anyone want to carpool from Holland/Zeeland?
>
> -mm
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
>
> > *REMINDER*
> > GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) February Meeting
> > Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make
> > sure to have enough.
> > Date and Time:
> > Thursday February 21st
> > 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)
> >
> > Location:
> > N-Vint, Inc.
> > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
> >
> > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
> > Suggested Discussion Topics:
> >
> > Implementing Linux in the workplace
> > Virtualization, Virtualbox, Vmware
> > SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux
> > System and network security
> > How about a shell script tip of the month
> > Home automation (Google for Mr. House)
> >
> > Steve and Doug were just a cople people that offered these topics.
> > Who can address which topics?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Casey M. DuBois
> > N-VINT, Inc.
> > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
> > 616-656-5500 Office
> > 866-337-2686 Direct
> > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
> > cdubois at n-vint.com
> >
> > "To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From slestak989 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 21:24:41 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 21:24:41 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] *Reminder* GRLUG Meeting - Tomorrow - Thursday, Feb 21,
 6-8PM
In-Reply-To: <78ba3d710802201513w379b5658n55ec59875ae266e5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D2CA@NVMBX01.nvint.local>	<faf758920802201435o5f9dc554jaa715057e07c6546@mail.gmail.com>
	<78ba3d710802201513w379b5658n55ec59875ae266e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47BCE0E9.8050406@gmail.com>

sergio savala wrote:
> Hey guys i live in hudsonville but i cant make it im new to the group.
> I would carpool if i could go.
>
>  
> On 2/20/08, *Matt Michielsen* <matt at michielsen.us 
> <mailto:matt at michielsen.us>> wrote:
>
>     Does anyone want to carpool from Holland/Zeeland?
>
>     -mm
>
>
>     On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com
>     <mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>> wrote:
>
>         *REMINDER*
>         GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) February Meeting
>         Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com
>         <mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com> so I can make sure to have enough.
>         Date and Time:
>         Thursday February 21st
>         6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)
>
>         Location:
>         N-Vint, Inc.
>         3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
>         http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
>         <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1>
>         Suggested Discussion Topics:
>
>         Implementing Linux in the workplace
>         Virtualization, Virtualbox, Vmware
>         SMB, home, work, and non-profit uses for Linux
>         System and network security
>         How about a shell script tip of the month
>         Home automation (Google for Mr. House)
>
>         Steve and Doug were just a cople people that offered these topics.
>         Who can address which topics?
>
>         Sincerely,
>         Casey M. DuBois
>         N-VINT, Inc.
>         3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
>         616-656-5500 Office
>         866-337-2686 Direct
>         AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
>         cdubois at n-vint.com <mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>
>
>         "To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a
>         computer."
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         grlug mailing list
>         grlug at grlug.org <mailto:grlug at grlug.org>
>         http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     grlug mailing list
>     grlug at grlug.org <mailto:grlug at grlug.org>
>     http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

welcome sergio.  hopefully next month we'll see you.

steve


From cdubois at n-vint.com  Thu Feb 21 13:26:23 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:26:23 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] *Tonight*  GRLUG Meeting - Thursday, Feb 21, 6-8PM
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D497@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Hello GRLUG,

I have received several RSVP's and it seems that the weather has cleared up just in time for our meeting tonight.

There is still time to RSVP

See you tonight.

*REMINDER*
GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) February Meeting
Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough.
Date and Time:
Thursday February 21st
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Location:
N-Vint, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."


From verduin at ameritech.net  Thu Feb 21 23:04:36 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:04:36 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Tonight's meeting
Message-ID: <1203653076.24091.33.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

You run a good meeting -- quick [but not fast] paced, on topic,
participative, informative.  Thanks for the opportunity to attend.

<Followup>
If you are looking for a wiki admin for the group, I am OK standing up
for a little while.  I'm not OK taking it away from someone who wants
sole control, and if you select me, my desire is to structure the task
in a way that there are several admins after a year and I can step out
gracefully without the wiki missing a beat.

I did pull the wiki up tonight and try to login -- without joy.  The new
user account sign-up data is obscured and held private for the wiki.
That is a valid design choice -- which brings me to a new GRLUG
community topic valid for this reflector [I believe]:

  What is the consensus opinion for the GRLUG wiki feature list?

Because I'm a newbie - as a wiki admin I propose to only:
  a) extend the feature set already provided by the existing wiki.
  b) establish editing rights for all GRLUG participants (not open)
  c) guard a mailbox established for the "wiki admin" identity looking
for wiki issues to address from the general public readership
  d) add a sandbox for all of us to play in with topics from past and
future meetings.

Lets talk it up? </Followup>

It was good to meet you guys.

Warmest regards from here,
George


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 23:08:28 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:08:28 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] ohloh - open source app site I was discussing
Message-ID: <47BE4ABC.1090203@gmail.com>

I new I would think of it.

ohloh.net is the one we were comparing to sourceforge and freshmeat.

THis site doesnt host any projects, they just measure stats.

I love the Project COst stat.  They calc the cost (i.e. value) of a 
project by sloc based on if you were to hire a team to write it.

They estimate Subversion at over 5M dollars to rewrite.
http://www.ohloh.net/projects/1?p=Subversion

There is also a tag cloud to show projects that may be similar or 
compete with said project.

http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/06/07/17/0622244.shtml

Strange that it is founded by ex-MSFT team members.  Oh well, maybe 
they've seen the light.

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 23:13:34 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:13:34 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <1203653076.24091.33.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1203653076.24091.33.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47BE4BEE.4020007@gmail.com>

George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> You run a good meeting -- quick [but not fast] paced, on topic,
> participative, informative.  Thanks for the opportunity to attend.
>
> <Followup>
> If you are looking for a wiki admin for the group, I am OK standing up
> for a little while.  I'm not OK taking it away from someone who wants
> sole control, and if you select me, my desire is to structure the task
> in a way that there are several admins after a year and I can step out
> gracefully without the wiki missing a beat.
>
> I did pull the wiki up tonight and try to login -- without joy.  The new
> user account sign-up data is obscured and held private for the wiki.
> That is a valid design choice -- which brings me to a new GRLUG
> community topic valid for this reflector [I believe]:
>
>   What is the consensus opinion for the GRLUG wiki feature list?
>
> Because I'm a newbie - as a wiki admin I propose to only:
>   a) extend the feature set already provided by the existing wiki.
>   b) establish editing rights for all GRLUG participants (not open)
>   c) guard a mailbox established for the "wiki admin" identity looking
> for wiki issues to address from the general public readership
>   d) add a sandbox for all of us to play in with topics from past and
> future meetings.
>
> Lets talk it up? </Followup>
>
> It was good to meet you guys.
>
> Warmest regards from here,
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   
I would be intrested in contributing to a local wiki.  Is there a 
package that could provide both a wiki and a forum? 

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 23:18:27 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:18:27 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <1203653076.24091.33.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1203653076.24091.33.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802212018w6794f374pab5b4bda37f03@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:04 PM, George (Skip) VerDuin
<verduin at ameritech.net> wrote:
> You run a good meeting -- quick [but not fast] paced, on topic,
>  participative, informative.  Thanks for the opportunity to attend.

Wish I could have made it.  Stuck home with the flu.

>
>  <Followup>
>  If you are looking for a wiki admin for the group, I am OK standing up
>  for a little while.  I'm not OK taking it away from someone who wants
>  sole control, and if you select me, my desire is to structure the task
>  in a way that there are several admins after a year and I can step out
>  gracefully without the wiki missing a beat.

I'd be happy to admin (or help admin) the wiki.  I've run Rosetta Code
(http://rosettacode.org) for a year now, so I've got some experience.

>
>  I did pull the wiki up tonight and try to login -- without joy.  The new
>  user account sign-up data is obscured and held private for the wiki.
>  That is a valid design choice -- which brings me to a new GRLUG
>  community topic valid for this reflector [I believe]:
>
>   What is the consensus opinion for the GRLUG wiki feature list?
>
>  Because I'm a newbie - as a wiki admin I propose to only:
>   a) extend the feature set already provided by the existing wiki.
>   b) establish editing rights for all GRLUG participants (not open)
>   c) guard a mailbox established for the "wiki admin" identity looking
>  for wiki issues to address from the general public readership
>   d) add a sandbox for all of us to play in with topics from past and
>  future meetings.
>
>  Lets talk it up? </Followup>

For a), I'd strongly suggest upgrading to the current version of
MediaWiki.  There's a lot to love in the current version.

For b), it's actually not difficult to enable safe, *anonymous*
editing of a MediaWiki.  Rosetta Code has plain-text (works with lynx)
captchas for anonymous editing, user creation, and for any edit that
adds an external link.  For Rosetta Code, this means that most users
never see the captchas once they've created an account.

d) is as easy as creating a page (Usually at Help:Sandbox), and
leaving it editable to sysops and logged-in users.

-- 
:wq

From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 10:40:41 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:40:41 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Tonight's meeting
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802212018w6794f374pab5b4bda37f03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1203653076.24091.33.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<f5e00c450802212018w6794f374pab5b4bda37f03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550802220740u38229f5bve6bddd8b9a9b2c38@mail.gmail.com>

I am not a wiki god, but for some reason I was able to create an
account and I am able to edit the wiki.  With that in mind I have
added a page for the meeting from last night. Please add to it because
the links I put on it are just from memory.

http://wiki.grlug.org/index.php?title=2008-02-21#Topics_Covered



On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:04 PM, George (Skip) VerDuin
>  <verduin at ameritech.net> wrote:
>  > You run a good meeting -- quick [but not fast] paced, on topic,
>  >  participative, informative.  Thanks for the opportunity to attend.
>
>  Wish I could have made it.  Stuck home with the flu.
>
>
>  >
>  >  <Followup>
>  >  If you are looking for a wiki admin for the group, I am OK standing up
>  >  for a little while.  I'm not OK taking it away from someone who wants
>  >  sole control, and if you select me, my desire is to structure the task
>  >  in a way that there are several admins after a year and I can step out
>  >  gracefully without the wiki missing a beat.
>
>  I'd be happy to admin (or help admin) the wiki.  I've run Rosetta Code
>  (http://rosettacode.org) for a year now, so I've got some experience.
>
>
>  >
>  >  I did pull the wiki up tonight and try to login -- without joy.  The new
>  >  user account sign-up data is obscured and held private for the wiki.
>  >  That is a valid design choice -- which brings me to a new GRLUG
>  >  community topic valid for this reflector [I believe]:
>  >
>  >   What is the consensus opinion for the GRLUG wiki feature list?
>  >
>  >  Because I'm a newbie - as a wiki admin I propose to only:
>  >   a) extend the feature set already provided by the existing wiki.
>  >   b) establish editing rights for all GRLUG participants (not open)
>  >   c) guard a mailbox established for the "wiki admin" identity looking
>  >  for wiki issues to address from the general public readership
>  >   d) add a sandbox for all of us to play in with topics from past and
>  >  future meetings.
>  >
>  >  Lets talk it up? </Followup>
>
>  For a), I'd strongly suggest upgrading to the current version of
>  MediaWiki.  There's a lot to love in the current version.
>
>  For b), it's actually not difficult to enable safe, *anonymous*
>  editing of a MediaWiki.  Rosetta Code has plain-text (works with lynx)
>  captchas for anonymous editing, user creation, and for any edit that
>  adds an external link.  For Rosetta Code, this means that most users
>  never see the captchas once they've created an account.
>
>  d) is as easy as creating a page (Usually at Help:Sandbox), and
>  leaving it editable to sysops and logged-in users.
>
>  --
>  :wq
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 11:03:34 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:03:34 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG MediaWiki
Message-ID: <73dc55680802220803t133a988cyc092998e822b94a2@mail.gmail.com>

One of the Wiki Administrators really needs to look at the Special Pages for
all Users page <http://wiki.grlug.org/index.php?title=Special:Specialpages>.
I might be a good idea to remove the Admin List and maybe some others too.
Also, the login is sent in clear text so it would be a good idea to consider
this a "throw away" account and use a login and password unique to any
others that you might use.

Great meeting though!
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From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 11:26:25 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:26:25 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Open source based network management solution links
Message-ID: <73dc55680802220826g770a8f25p17cf2ef6417ada06@mail.gmail.com>

Here are links to TWiki and some of the network management products
that I mentioned during the meeting on February 21, 2008.

TWiki, http://twiki.org/

Open Management Consortium, http://www.open-management.com

ZipTie, a framework for Network Inventory and Configuration
Management, http://www.ziptie.org/

Hyperic HQ, Open Source Systems and Application Management Software,
http://www.hyperic.com

Zenoss Core, an open source IT monitoring product,
http://www.zenoss.com/product/core

Cacti, network graphing solution that uses RRDTool's data storage and
graphing functionality, http://www.cacti.net/

NeDi, a network management suite, http://www.nedi.ch/doku.php

GroundWork Monitor Open Source, an availability monitoring solution
that uses Nagios, http://www.groundworkopensource.com/community/

From ssurdock at engineered-net.com  Fri Feb 22 11:46:45 2008
From: ssurdock at engineered-net.com (Steven Surdock)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:46:45 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Document management
Message-ID: <869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A99A8@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>

Greetings, 
 
I took a look at the various suggestions for my document management problem and most seem too "comprehensive" for my little problem.  I am attempting to use phpXplore, but the project home is not too useful:-(
 
Can any HTML/JavaScript gurus tell me why this page (http://www.cannonpool.org/phpXplorer/system/index.php) renders ok in Firefox but in IE the "Actions" tab rolls to the next line?  I've played with it a little, but I can't figure out why.
 
Thanks!
 
-Steve S.
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From djk at oneisp.net  Fri Feb 22 12:11:19 2008
From: djk at oneisp.net (Dennis Kaminski)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:11:19 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] IP Blocking
Message-ID: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>

Doug,

What was he name if the "automatic IP blocking" process you mentioned
last night. I guess I should have been taking notes.

I'm currently using my own python program that reads /var/log/secure
looking for failed login attempts and selected user names that hackers
frequently use.

Thanks,
Dennis




From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 13:13:22 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:13:22 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] IP Blocking
In-Reply-To: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>
References: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>
Message-ID: <e8898d550802221013v6fbd5e95g537c5cd522d4e290@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not Doug, but I'll answer anyway.  I use
denyhosts(http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net/) So simple, even I have it
configured.

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Dennis Kaminski <djk at oneisp.net> wrote:
> Doug,
>
>  What was he name if the "automatic IP blocking" process you mentioned
>  last night. I guess I should have been taking notes.
>
>  I'm currently using my own python program that reads /var/log/secure
>  looking for failed login attempts and selected user names that hackers
>  frequently use.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Dennis
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From adderd at kkmfg.com  Fri Feb 22 13:07:38 2008
From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:07:38 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] IP Blocking
In-Reply-To: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>
References: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>
Message-ID: <47BF0F6A.3000408@kkmfg.com>

I don't know what was mentioned but it sounds like you want denyhosts.

http://denyhosts.sourceforge.net/

it automatically adds deadbeats to your hosts.deny file and can be set 
to proactively download known deadbeat IP's so that they are blocked 
before they even try to attack you.

Dennis Kaminski wrote:
> Doug,
>
> What was he name if the "automatic IP blocking" process you mentioned
> last night. I guess I should have been taking notes.
>
> I'm currently using my own python program that reads /var/log/secure
> looking for failed login attempts and selected user names that hackers
> frequently use.
>
> Thanks,
> Dennis
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   


From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 13:40:28 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:40:28 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Open source based network management solution links
In-Reply-To: <73dc55680802220826g770a8f25p17cf2ef6417ada06@mail.gmail.com>
References: <73dc55680802220826g770a8f25p17cf2ef6417ada06@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550802221040t37411d9bp94be3ead3f4f7ada@mail.gmail.com>

I added these links to the meeting's wiki page.

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Douglas Rehfeldt
<drehfeldtusa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here are links to TWiki and some of the network management products
>  that I mentioned during the meeting on February 21, 2008.
>
>  TWiki, http://twiki.org/
>
>  Open Management Consortium, http://www.open-management.com
>
>  ZipTie, a framework for Network Inventory and Configuration
>  Management, http://www.ziptie.org/
>
>  Hyperic HQ, Open Source Systems and Application Management Software,
>  http://www.hyperic.com
>
>  Zenoss Core, an open source IT monitoring product,
>  http://www.zenoss.com/product/core
>
>  Cacti, network graphing solution that uses RRDTool's data storage and
>  graphing functionality, http://www.cacti.net/
>
>  NeDi, a network management suite, http://www.nedi.ch/doku.php
>
>  GroundWork Monitor Open Source, an availability monitoring solution
>  that uses Nagios, http://www.groundworkopensource.com/community/
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From verduin at ameritech.net  Fri Feb 22 13:59:22 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:59:22 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] ohloh - open source app site I was discussing
In-Reply-To: <47BE4ABC.1090203@gmail.com>
References: <47BE4ABC.1090203@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203706762.24091.52.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

Bingo & THANKS Steve.

On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 23:08 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
> I new I would think of it.
> 
> ohloh.net is the one we were comparing to sourceforge and freshmeat.
> 
> THis site doesnt host any projects, they just measure stats.
I chased a couple things I use and am familiar with -- info seems
consistent with my experience.  I see information overload coming...
> 
> I love the Project COst stat.  They calc the cost (i.e. value) of a 
> project by sloc based on if you were to hire a team to write it.
First impression with "popularity" measure : interesting.
  Firefox is twice as popular as linux kernal
  Subversion [PUT stuff in] is more popular than Apache [PRESENT stuff]
  LAMP tools are 3 of the top 5

<extreme trivia>
The name of this site [ohloh] pronounces(?) [O'-la] like the Brazilian
Portuguese verb [ohlar] that translates like English "look around".
Hmmm.</extreme trivia>

Thanks again for adding to my "tool kit".

Warmest regards from here,
George


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 14:04:41 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:04:41 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] ohloh - open source app site I was discussing
In-Reply-To: <1203706762.24091.52.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <47BE4ABC.1090203@gmail.com>
	<1203706762.24091.52.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47BF1CC9.2050700@gmail.com>

George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> First impression with "popularity" measure : interesting.
>   Firefox is twice as popular as linux kernal
>   Subversion [PUT stuff in] is more popular than Apache [PRESENT stuff]
>   LAMP tools are 3 of the top 5
>   
Well, both ff and apache are cross platform, so there are win32 users 
that love ff.

Only us foss users will give attribution to the kernel.

The popularity count I think is based on how many people "stack" it. I 
only included python, trac, and subversion in my stack, even though I 
apprecaite and use many more libraries and tools.

Dude, I've got a Dellbuntu on order ;)


From verduin at ameritech.net  Fri Feb 22 14:23:07 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:23:07 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] ohloh - open source app site I was discussing
In-Reply-To: <47BF1CC9.2050700@gmail.com>
References: <47BE4ABC.1090203@gmail.com>
	<1203706762.24091.52.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47BF1CC9.2050700@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203708187.24091.59.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>


On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 14:04 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
>>SNIP<<
> 
> Dude, I've got a Dellbuntu on order ;)
Totally kewl -- which rev?.
I am beginning to hear ubuntu 7 bugginess news, "rush to market?".
I am running 7.10 Gusty and have wondered about my stability...

Warmest regards from here,
George


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 14:25:43 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:25:43 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] ohloh - open source app site I was discussing
In-Reply-To: <1203708187.24091.59.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <47BE4ABC.1090203@gmail.com>	<1203706762.24091.52.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>	<47BF1CC9.2050700@gmail.com>
	<1203708187.24091.59.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47BF21B7.3060202@gmail.com>

George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 14:04 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
>   
>>> SNIP<<
>>>       
>> Dude, I've got a Dellbuntu on order ;)
>>     
> Totally kewl -- which rev?.
> I am beginning to hear ubuntu 7 bugginess news, "rush to market?".
> I am running 7.10 Gusty and have wondered about my stability...
>
> Warmest regards from here,
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   
An m1330n with gutsy.  I havent had any real problems with stability of 
Gutsy.  I have it on an Inspiron now and am happy with it.  I just need 
a smaller laptop.  


From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb 22 14:46:47 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:46:47 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Meetings
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C0@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Hello GRLUG,

Thank you to all that attended and participated last night.

Please mark your calendars for Thursday March 13th for our next GRLUG Meeting (could someone please post this date to the WIKI?).
E-mail me with suggested Topics of discussion so I can start compiling a list (looking for home/fun Linux topics).

Some of the improvements we discussed:
More home/fun linux uses
Update WIKI and use it more.
Video Taping meetings for web posting (I forgot the camera for last night's meeting but will have for the next one).
Internet access during meetings (I've got this one covered)

Here are Links to some other local groups that may be of interest:
www.gr-issa.org<http://www.gr-issa.org/>
GR-ISSA is a local chapter of the international Information Systems Security Association (or ISSA). GR-ISSA provides local security professionals and practitioners a variety of information security resources ranging from presentations and knowledge sharing to social networking opportunities. This site is dedicated to the Grand Rapids, Michigan chapter of ISSA. GR-ISSA was founded in 2003. For information about the parent international ISSA organization, you are encouraged to visit www.issa.org<http://www.issa.org>.

www.xpwestmichigan.org<http://www.xpwestmichigan.org/>
XP West Michigan is a 501c6 non-profit trade association dedicated to improving the competitiveness of Michigan's software development community. We are particularly interested in disseminating knowledge of agile software development practices. XPwm was founded by Atomic Object<http://atomicobject.com/> in the fall of 2003.
We meet regularly on the 4th Tuesday of each month, excepting December and summer months. Membership and attendance at meetings is free.
We organize an annual conference, the Great Lakes Software Excellence Conference<http://glsec.org/>
A board of directors<http://xpwestmichigan.org/pages/Board+of+Directors> organizes meetings and arranges for speakers and activities. Our goal is the least organizational overhead that will produce excellent meetings.
Corporate sponsors are essential to have nice meeting places, snacks, and speakers from out-of-town. We encourage sponsorship of GLSEC as a means of supporting the organization. We typically have between 30 and 60 people at our monthly meetings.

www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws<http://www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws/>
Grand Rapids Toastmasters - Toastmasters is a safe and friendly place where you can develop and improve your communication and leadership skills. Some of us are seasoned professional speakers, but nearly a third of the members of Grand Rapids Toastmasters have less than a year of experience. Grand Rapids Toastmasters meet weekly on Tuesday nights from 6:30 - 8:30 pm. Our meetings are held inside Baker Book House in the rear-office located just off East Paris Ave.  Visitors are always welcome, and we look foreword to meeting with you!
As a guest, you won't be required to speak unless you want to.

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."

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From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 14:51:00 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:51:00 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] thermal printers - part deux
Message-ID: <47BF27A4.8080706@gmail.com>

The Printronix are actually coming this way too.  This is a skid with I 
think 3 printronix thermals (same size as the zebra's) the only 
difference is the ribbon is wound opposite.  THis means do not mix media 
with these printers, you will get wax all over the print head.

The only real use I can see for these is if anyone knows any ebay power 
sellers, may be good for mailing labels.  Maybe a ministry that does a 
lot of mailing. 

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 14:52:38 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:52:38 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Meetings
In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C0@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C0@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <47BF2806.4040508@gmail.com>

Casey DuBois wrote:
>
> Hello GRLUG,
>
> Thank you to all that attended and participated last night.
>
> Please mark your calendars for Thursday March 13^th for our next GRLUG 
> Meeting (could someone please post this date to the WIKI?).
>
> E-mail me with suggested Topics of discussion so I can start compiling 
> a list (looking for home/fun Linux topics).
>
> Some of the improvements we discussed:
>
> More home/fun linux uses
>
> Update WIKI and use it more.
>
> Video Taping meetings for web posting (I forgot the camera for last 
> night?s meeting but will have for the next one).
>
> Internet access during meetings (I?ve got this one covered)
>
> Here are Links to some other local groups that may be of interest:
>
> www.gr-issa.org <http://www.gr-issa.org/>
>
> GR-ISSA is a local chapter of the international Information Systems 
> Security Association (or ISSA). GR-ISSA provides local security 
> professionals and practitioners a variety of information security 
> resources ranging from presentations and knowledge sharing to social 
> networking opportunities. This site is dedicated to the Grand Rapids, 
> Michigan chapter of ISSA. GR-ISSA was founded in 2003. For information 
> about the parent international ISSA organization, you are encouraged 
> to visit www.issa.org <http://www.issa.org>.
>
> www.xpwestmichigan.org <http://www.xpwestmichigan.org/>
>
> XP West Michigan is a 501c6 non-profit trade association dedicated to 
> improving the competitiveness of Michigan?s software development 
> community. We are particularly interested in disseminating knowledge 
> of agile software development practices. XPwm was founded by Atomic 
> Object <http://atomicobject.com/> in the fall of 2003.
>
> We meet regularly on the 4th Tuesday of each month, excepting December 
> and summer months. Membership and attendance at meetings is free.
>
> We organize an annual conference, the Great Lakes Software Excellence 
> Conference <http://glsec.org/>
>
> A board of directors 
> <http://xpwestmichigan.org/pages/Board+of+Directors> organizes 
> meetings and arranges for speakers and activities. Our goal is the 
> least organizational overhead that will produce excellent meetings.
>
> Corporate sponsors are essential to have nice meeting places, snacks, 
> and speakers from out-of-town. We encourage sponsorship of GLSEC as a 
> means of supporting the organization. We typically have between 30 and 
> 60 people at our monthly meetings.
>
> www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws 
> <http://www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws/>
>
> Grand Rapids Toastmasters - Toastmasters is a safe and friendly place 
> where you can develop and improve your communication and leadership 
> skills. Some of us are seasoned professional speakers, but nearly a 
> third of the members of Grand Rapids Toastmasters have less than a 
> year of experience. Grand Rapids Toastmasters meet weekly on Tuesday 
> nights from 6:30 - 8:30 pm. Our meetings are held inside Baker Book 
> House in the rear-office located just off East Paris Ave. Visitors are 
> always welcome, and we look foreword to meeting with you!
>
> As a guest, you won't be required to speak unless you want to.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> /Casey M. DuBois/
>
> *N-VINT, Inc.*
>
> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
>
> 616-656-5500 Office
>
> *866-337-2686* Direct
>
> /AOL IM: *CaseyNVINT*/
>
> cdubois at n-vint.com <mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>*//*
>
> ?To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer.?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
I can do a demo of the NoMachine server and client, maybe do an install 
on a vm. I will not need net for that.

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb 22 14:56:48 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:56:48 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] thermal printers - part deux
In-Reply-To: <47BF27A4.8080706@gmail.com>
References: <47BF27A4.8080706@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C3@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

I could use a commercial thermal printer here @ work.
Please mark me down for 1.
Casey

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:51 PM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: [GRLUG] thermal printers - part deux

The Printronix are actually coming this way too.  This is a skid with I
think 3 printronix thermals (same size as the zebra's) the only
difference is the ribbon is wound opposite.  THis means do not mix media
with these printers, you will get wax all over the print head.

The only real use I can see for these is if anyone knows any ebay power
sellers, may be good for mailing labels.  Maybe a ministry that does a
lot of mailing.
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb 22 14:58:09 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:58:09 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Meetings
In-Reply-To: <47BF2806.4040508@gmail.com>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C0@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<47BF2806.4040508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C6@NVMBX01.nvint.local>



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:53 PM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Meetings

Casey DuBois wrote:
>
> Hello GRLUG,
>
> Thank you to all that attended and participated last night.
>
> Please mark your calendars for Thursday March 13^th for our next GRLUG
> Meeting (could someone please post this date to the WIKI?).
>
> E-mail me with suggested Topics of discussion so I can start compiling
> a list (looking for home/fun Linux topics).
>
> Some of the improvements we discussed:
>
> More home/fun linux uses
>
> Update WIKI and use it more.
>
> Video Taping meetings for web posting (I forgot the camera for last
> night's meeting but will have for the next one).
>
> Internet access during meetings (I've got this one covered)
>
> Here are Links to some other local groups that may be of interest:
>
> www.gr-issa.org <http://www.gr-issa.org/>
>
> GR-ISSA is a local chapter of the international Information Systems
> Security Association (or ISSA). GR-ISSA provides local security
> professionals and practitioners a variety of information security
> resources ranging from presentations and knowledge sharing to social
> networking opportunities. This site is dedicated to the Grand Rapids,
> Michigan chapter of ISSA. GR-ISSA was founded in 2003. For information
> about the parent international ISSA organization, you are encouraged
> to visit www.issa.org <http://www.issa.org>.
>
> www.xpwestmichigan.org <http://www.xpwestmichigan.org/>
>
> XP West Michigan is a 501c6 non-profit trade association dedicated to
> improving the competitiveness of Michigan's software development
> community. We are particularly interested in disseminating knowledge
> of agile software development practices. XPwm was founded by Atomic
> Object <http://atomicobject.com/> in the fall of 2003.
>
> We meet regularly on the 4th Tuesday of each month, excepting December
> and summer months. Membership and attendance at meetings is free.
>
> We organize an annual conference, the Great Lakes Software Excellence
> Conference <http://glsec.org/>
>
> A board of directors
> <http://xpwestmichigan.org/pages/Board+of+Directors> organizes
> meetings and arranges for speakers and activities. Our goal is the
> least organizational overhead that will produce excellent meetings.
>
> Corporate sponsors are essential to have nice meeting places, snacks,
> and speakers from out-of-town. We encourage sponsorship of GLSEC as a
> means of supporting the organization. We typically have between 30 and
> 60 people at our monthly meetings.
>
> www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws
> <http://www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws/>
>
> Grand Rapids Toastmasters - Toastmasters is a safe and friendly place
> where you can develop and improve your communication and leadership
> skills. Some of us are seasoned professional speakers, but nearly a
> third of the members of Grand Rapids Toastmasters have less than a
> year of experience. Grand Rapids Toastmasters meet weekly on Tuesday
> nights from 6:30 - 8:30 pm. Our meetings are held inside Baker Book
> House in the rear-office located just off East Paris Ave. Visitors are
> always welcome, and we look foreword to meeting with you!
>
> As a guest, you won't be required to speak unless you want to.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> /Casey M. DuBois/
>
> *N-VINT, Inc.*
>
> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
>
> 616-656-5500 Office
>
> *866-337-2686* Direct
>
> /AOL IM: *CaseyNVINT*/
>
> cdubois at n-vint.com <mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>*//*
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
I can do a demo of the NoMachine server and client, maybe do an install
on a vm. I will not need net for that.


I look forward to your NoMachine demo.
You really peaked my interest with this one.
Casey

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 14:59:57 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:59:57 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] thermal printers - part deux
In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C3@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <47BF27A4.8080706@gmail.com>
	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C3@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <47BF29BD.9020901@gmail.com>

Casey DuBois wrote:
> I could use a commercial thermal printer here @ work.
> Please mark me down for 1.
> Casey
>
>   

How about 12-14 crt monitors  17-19"

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb 22 15:07:14 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:07:14 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] OPEN SOURCE GRID & CLUSTER CONFERENCE 2008
Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5CE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

FYI

Mark your calendar:

OPEN SOURCE GRID & CLUSTER CONFERENCE 2008

Featuring: GlobusWorld, Grid Engine Workshop, Rocks Cluster Workshop

Join Users, Administrators, and Developers of Open Source Grid and
Cluster Software from across the globe at this unique event.

Open Source Grid & Cluster Conference 2008
May 12-16, 2008
Marriott City Center
Oakland, California, USA

For more information visit www.OpenSourceGridCluster.org

Anyone want to carpool?

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 15:17:26 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:17:26 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] thermal printers - part deux
In-Reply-To: <faf758920802221215y429b1badudcaa9d0be14394f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47BF27A4.8080706@gmail.com>	
	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C3@NVMBX01.nvint.local>	
	<47BF29BD.9020901@gmail.com>
	<faf758920802221215y429b1badudcaa9d0be14394f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47BF2DD6.6050105@gmail.com>

Matt Michielsen wrote:
> I'll take one of the printers as well.  I can use it to label some 
> homebrew bottles...
>
> Where do I need to pick it up?  I'm in no rush whatsoever.
>
> -mm
>
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Casey DuBois wrote:
>     > I could use a commercial thermal printer here @ work.
>     > Please mark me down for 1.
>     > Casey
>     >
>     >
>
>     How about 12-14 crt monitors  17-19"
>     _______________________________________________
>     grlug mailing list
>     grlug at grlug.org <mailto:grlug at grlug.org>
>     http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
I just talked to my boss, and he was told to "cleanup that mess in teh 
warehouse" so, I guess they will be on a transfer truck at some point.  
I would expect in the next 2-3 weeks. 

Note that all of the printers I am talking about are serial printers, a 
little dated.

From matt at michielsen.us  Fri Feb 22 15:21:11 2008
From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:21:11 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] thermal printers - part deux
In-Reply-To: <47BF2DD6.6050105@gmail.com>
References: <47BF27A4.8080706@gmail.com>
	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C3@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<47BF29BD.9020901@gmail.com>
	<faf758920802221215y429b1badudcaa9d0be14394f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BF2DD6.6050105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <faf758920802221221h1ca65617ld97dd0c019521e43@mail.gmail.com>

A serial printer will be fine.  I'm sure I can get Linux to work with it...

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Matt Michielsen wrote:
> > I'll take one of the printers as well.  I can use it to label some
> > homebrew bottles...
> >
> > Where do I need to pick it up?  I'm in no rush whatsoever.
> >
> > -mm
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Casey DuBois wrote:
> >     > I could use a commercial thermal printer here @ work.
> >     > Please mark me down for 1.
> >     > Casey
> >     >
> >     >
> >
> >     How about 12-14 crt monitors  17-19"
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     grlug mailing list
> >     grlug at grlug.org <mailto:grlug at grlug.org>
> >     http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> I just talked to my boss, and he was told to "cleanup that mess in teh
> warehouse" so, I guess they will be on a transfer truck at some point.
> I would expect in the next 2-3 weeks.
>
> Note that all of the printers I am talking about are serial printers, a
> little dated.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From verduin at ameritech.net  Fri Feb 22 15:27:21 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:27:21 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] [Fwd: Re:  Tonight's meeting] OOPS
Message-ID: <1203712041.24091.81.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

I just stepped in "it":-(

The attachment pushed the max size way over the limit.
If anyone really wants to see it -- I'll attach it to non-reflector
mail / just ask?

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: George (Skip) VerDuin <verduin at ameritech.net>
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Tonight's meeting
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:52:27 -0500

Very interesting Benjamin.

On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 10:40 -0500, Benjamin Flanders wrote:
> I am not a wiki god, but for some reason I was able to create an
> account and I am able to edit the wiki.
If you [todays admin(?)] will look at the attachment you will see what I
see.
My render is missing only the "new account" fields of "Create new
account or login" heading.  I seem to be missing what you have
available?  

I found access to this page is from both the main page [Create an
account or login] and also clicking the [edit] while not logged in.
Seems very normal to me.

My IP must trigger a filter?

>   With that in mind I have
> added a page for the meeting from last night.
You have done exactly what I heard last night as being a good thing to
do.  Kudos

Warmest regards from here,
George



From greg at gregfolkert.net  Fri Feb 22 18:49:16 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:49:16 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] IP Blocking
In-Reply-To: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>
References: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>
Message-ID: <1203724156.23262.6.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 12:11 -0500, Dennis Kaminski wrote:
> Doug,
> 
> What was he name if the "automatic IP blocking" process you mentioned
> last night. I guess I should have been taking notes.
> 
> I'm currently using my own python program that reads /var/log/secure
> looking for failed login attempts and selected user names that hackers
> frequently use.

Bleah... others are suggesting denyhosts. While its a good product it is
unwieldy.

I have had it on machines I inherited. I was getting emails at all
times, it wasn't well configured, caused problems.

I use fail2ban

http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/fail2ban

Sure its a Debian package, but its much less problematic and it is
portable. Grab the source and look at the README.

-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From ssurdock at engineered-net.com  Sat Feb 23 09:15:42 2008
From: ssurdock at engineered-net.com (Steven Surdock)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:15:42 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] thermal printers - part deux
In-Reply-To: <47BF2DD6.6050105@gmail.com>
References: <47BF27A4.8080706@gmail.com>	<9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C3@NVMBX01.nvint.local>	<47BF29BD.9020901@gmail.com><faf758920802221215y429b1badudcaa9d0be14394f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<47BF2DD6.6050105@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A99C1@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>

grlug-bounces at grlug.org wrote:
> Matt Michielsen wrote:
>> I'll take one of the printers as well.  I can use it to label some
>> homebrew bottles... 

Another homebrewer?  Do I sense a companion homebrewing/LUG meeting in
our future;-)

-Steve S.

From ssurdock at engineered-net.com  Sat Feb 23 09:23:24 2008
From: ssurdock at engineered-net.com (Steven Surdock)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:23:24 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Meetings
In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C0@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D7C5D5C0@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A99C2@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>

For those that don't live near E. Paris, there are a variety of other
Toastmaster clubs in the GR area.  North Kent Community Toastmaster's is
one I am familiar with.
 
http://www.toastmasters.org/websiteApps/ will help you find a meeting
near you.
 
-Steve S.


________________________________

	From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org]
On Behalf Of Casey DuBois
	Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 2:47 PM
	To: grlug at grlug.org
	Subject: [GRLUG] Meetings
	
	

	Hello GRLUG,

	 

	Thank you to all that attended and participated last night.

	 

	 

	www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws
<http://www.grandrapids.freetoasthost.ws/> 

	Grand Rapids Toastmasters - Toastmasters is a safe and friendly
place where you can develop and improve your communication and
leadership skills. Some of us are seasoned professional speakers, but
nearly a third of the members of Grand Rapids Toastmasters have less
than a year of experience. Grand Rapids Toastmasters meet weekly on
Tuesday nights from 6:30 - 8:30 pm. Our meetings are held inside Baker
Book House in the rear-office located just off East Paris Ave.  Visitors
are always welcome, and we look foreword to meeting with you!

	As a guest, you won't be required to speak unless you want to.

	 

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From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Sat Feb 23 11:06:03 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:06:03 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Homebrewser's
In-Reply-To: <mailman.503.1203776103.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.503.1203776103.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <000001c87635$fe9bd970$0202fea9@bigburner>

Bring on the craft brew!  For those GRLugger's with an interest in beer AND
security check out the local GRSEC (http://www.grsec.blogspot.com).  "West
Michigan meetup dedicated to beer, security, and conversation (in that
order)" 

> 
> Another homebrewer?  Do I sense a companion homebrewing/LUG 
> meeting in our future;-)
> 
> -Steve S.


From matt at michielsen.us  Sat Feb 23 11:11:06 2008
From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:11:06 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Homebrewser's
In-Reply-To: <000001c87635$fe9bd970$0202fea9@bigburner>
References: <mailman.503.1203776103.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<000001c87635$fe9bd970$0202fea9@bigburner>
Message-ID: <faf758920802230811x29a1a1bdx8a3a3d0d2d75c614@mail.gmail.com>

Nice.  I'll have to check that out.  I'll also bring a bunch of homebrews to
the next meeting.

-mm

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Douglas Rehfeldt <drehfeldtusa at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Bring on the craft brew!  For those GRLugger's with an interest in beer
> AND
> security check out the local GRSEC (http://www.grsec.blogspot.com).  "West
> Michigan meetup dedicated to beer, security, and conversation (in that
> order)"
>
> >
> > Another homebrewer?  Do I sense a companion homebrewing/LUG
> > meeting in our future;-)
> >
> > -Steve S.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From flanderb at gmail.com  Sat Feb 23 14:59:17 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:59:17 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] IP Blocking
In-Reply-To: <1203724156.23262.6.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <1203700280.24629.18.camel@lx52.ld>
	<1203724156.23262.6.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <e8898d550802231159r2b8f952cv3889733770515710@mail.gmail.com>

I'm sure there are many ways to do it.  I have never had an issue with
denyhosts.  The config is easy to understand and e-mailing can be
turned on or off.

cheers


On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:
>
>  On Fri, 2008-02-22 at 12:11 -0500, Dennis Kaminski wrote:
>  > Doug,
>  >
>  > What was he name if the "automatic IP blocking" process you mentioned
>  > last night. I guess I should have been taking notes.
>  >
>  > I'm currently using my own python program that reads /var/log/secure
>  > looking for failed login attempts and selected user names that hackers
>  > frequently use.
>
>  Bleah... others are suggesting denyhosts. While its a good product it is
>  unwieldy.
>
>  I have had it on machines I inherited. I was getting emails at all
>  times, it wasn't well configured, caused problems.
>
>  I use fail2ban
>
>  http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/fail2ban
>
>  Sure its a Debian package, but its much less problematic and it is
>  portable. Grab the source and look at the README.
>
>  --
>  greg at gregfolkert.net
>  PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
>  Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
>  Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
>  Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From luke.mcreynolds at gmail.com  Sun Feb 24 16:20:39 2008
From: luke.mcreynolds at gmail.com (Luke McReynolds)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:20:39 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
Message-ID: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi GRLUG,

Longtime lurker here. I'm a student, and while I use my laptop to take
notes, do homework and brief cases, I find that I'm much more
productive when I don't read Slashdot or otherwise screw around on the
internet while I'm trying to study.

Unfortunately, I find myself much more efficient with my notetaking
and everything when I do use my laptop: I use basKet Notepads to
manage everything, and it works great. I can type much faster than I
can write in longhand, and being able to cut/copy/paste large sections
of text is invaluable for me. Furthermore, my professors often assign
8-10 page cases in PDF format: it's great to be able to search for
particular words or phrases in them, which means that printing them
out and taking them with me isn't very practical. I think that
continuing to use a computer for note-taking is too important for me
not to do.

My question is,

Do you guys know of an easily-configurable "Internet blocker" that I
could install on my linux notebook? If I could block myself from the
internet for a couple hours at a time, I think I could get a lot more
done.

I mostly study at school using the free wi-fi, so I'm not really
looking for a server-based option. (Blocking my MAC address or
internal LAN IP address from accessing port 80 on the router level,
for example.)

Do you guys have any suggestions that don't include prescriptions for
anti-ADD medication?

Thanks a lot,

Luke McReynolds

P.S. Obviously, self-motivation is my problem here more than anything
else, but I think that a software solution could help in the short
term.

From ssurdock at engineered-net.com  Sun Feb 24 16:31:48 2008
From: ssurdock at engineered-net.com (Steven Surdock)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:31:48 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
In-Reply-To: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A99EE@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>

Do you need any other network connectivity when taking notes?  If not,
the simple approach works,

$ sudo ifconfig eth0 down
-or-
$ sudo route del default
-or-
$ sudo cp /dev/null /etc/resolv.conf
-or-
...

-Steve S.

grlug-bounces at grlug.org wrote:
> Hi GRLUG,
> 
> Longtime lurker here. I'm a student, and while I use my laptop to take
> notes, do homework and brief cases, I find that I'm much more
> productive when I don't read Slashdot or otherwise screw around on the
> internet while I'm trying to study.

From mikemol at gmail.com  Sun Feb 24 16:33:28 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:33:28 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
In-Reply-To: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802241333v69d11bcds3700bb8461df1c1d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Luke McReynolds
<luke.mcreynolds at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi GRLUG,
>
>  Longtime lurker here. I'm a student, and while I use my laptop to take
>  notes, do homework and brief cases, I find that I'm much more
>  productive when I don't read Slashdot or otherwise screw around on the
>  internet while I'm trying to study.
>
>  Unfortunately, I find myself much more efficient with my notetaking
>  and everything when I do use my laptop: I use basKet Notepads to
>  manage everything, and it works great. I can type much faster than I
>  can write in longhand, and being able to cut/copy/paste large sections
>  of text is invaluable for me. Furthermore, my professors often assign
>  8-10 page cases in PDF format: it's great to be able to search for
>  particular words or phrases in them, which means that printing them
>  out and taking them with me isn't very practical. I think that
>  continuing to use a computer for note-taking is too important for me
>  not to do.
>
>  My question is,
>
>  Do you guys know of an easily-configurable "Internet blocker" that I
>  could install on my linux notebook? If I could block myself from the
>  internet for a couple hours at a time, I think I could get a lot more
>  done.
>
>  I mostly study at school using the free wi-fi, so I'm not really
>  looking for a server-based option. (Blocking my MAC address or
>  internal LAN IP address from accessing port 80 on the router level,
>  for example.)
>
>  Do you guys have any suggestions that don't include prescriptions for
>  anti-ADD medication?

I don't know of any existing packages, but you should be able to use
cron and a couple iptables scripts (one to add rules blocking net
access, and one to reset to your normal firewall rules) to accomplish
what you're looking for.

I once set up a curfew on an Ubuntu box in a similar manner.


-- 
:wq

From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Sun Feb 24 18:38:20 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:38:20 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Disable Internet access on your own laptop
In-Reply-To: <mailman.505.1203888195.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.505.1203888195.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <000f01c8773e$57c8e340$3475a8c0@bigburner>

 
"Do you guys know of an easily-configurable "Internet blocker" that I could
install on my Linux notebook?  If I could block myself from the internet for
a couple hours at a time, I think I could get a lot more done."

Why not just use the built-in button or switch to disable the wireless card?
Almost every newer laptop has one of these switches.  No prescriptions for
anti-ADD medication required. :)  

Now this may seem harsh to some, but frankly, you just need to learn some
self discipline.  The long term benefit's will be far greater than trying to
"shackle" yourself.  Think of as a life style change compared to trying a
fad diet.   Try working for an hour and then "rewarding" yourself to five
minutes of /.

My $.02


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 24 21:33:36 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:33:36 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Disable Internet access on your own laptop
In-Reply-To: <000f01c8773e$57c8e340$3475a8c0@bigburner>
References: <mailman.505.1203888195.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<000f01c8773e$57c8e340$3475a8c0@bigburner>
Message-ID: <47C22900.3030609@gmail.com>

Douglas Rehfeldt wrote:
>  
> "Do you guys know of an easily-configurable "Internet blocker" that I could
> install on my Linux notebook?  If I could block myself from the internet for
> a couple hours at a time, I think I could get a lot more done."
>
> Why not just use the built-in button or switch to disable the wireless card?
> Almost every newer laptop has one of these switches.  No prescriptions for
> anti-ADD medication required. :)  
>
> Now this may seem harsh to some, but frankly, you just need to learn some
> self discipline.  The long term benefit's will be far greater than trying to
> "shackle" yourself.  Think of as a life style change compared to trying a
> fad diet.   Try working for an hour and then "rewarding" yourself to five
> minutes of /.
>
> My $.02
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   
I dunno, that 5 minute reward may be like a AA member rewarding 
him(her)self with a beer... ;)

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sun Feb 24 22:45:18 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:45:18 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
In-Reply-To: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203911118.7571.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Sun, 2008-02-24 at 16:20 -0500, Luke McReynolds wrote:
> Hi GRLUG,
[snip story]
> My question is,
> 
> Do you guys know of an easily-configurable "Internet blocker" that I
> could install on my linux notebook? If I could block myself from the
> internet for a couple hours at a time, I think I could get a lot more
> done.
> 
> I mostly study at school using the free wi-fi, so I'm not really
> looking for a server-based option. (Blocking my MAC address or
> internal LAN IP address from accessing port 80 on the router level,
> for example.)
> 
> Do you guys have any suggestions that don't include prescriptions for
> anti-ADD medication?

0 22 * * 0-4 /sbin/route del -net 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0 gw 192.168.1.1 dev eth0
0 8 * * 1-5 /sbin/route add -net 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0 gw 192.168.1.1 dev eth0


That works for my daughter's computer to shut her down at 10PM
weeknights.

You might want to do some script writing to grab the currently active
interface and current default route and use them in something like those
crontab entries.

a quicky for detecting the default device:

`route -n | grep ^0.0.0.0 | xargs | cut -f1-3,8 -d\ `

yes there is a space after the slash. Sure you could use awk...

but on my laptop I get this:

        maxime:~# route -n | grep ^0.0.0.0 | xargs | cut -f1-3,8 -d\  
        0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 0.0.0.0 wlan0
        
On my daughter's machine I get:

        root at maymo:~# route -n | grep ^0.0.0.0 | xargs | cut -f1-3,8 -d\ 
        0.0.0.0 192.168.1.1 0.0.0.0 eth0

Now for those not to sure about route and its output here it is fully:

        root at maymo:~# route -n
        Kernel IP routing table
        Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
        192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
        169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 eth0
        0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0

So, you can see I cut out Fields 1,2,3 and 8, being Destination,
Gateway, Mask and Device.

Do a script that put those in the right places for the shutoff and
voila ... you are good.

It'll keep you able to print and so on, provided you are on the same
subnet.

And to if it, you either reboot or force your networking to restart and
you are back in business.

You could also show self-restraint... (yeah I know, I'm not one to talk)


BTW, I let you make your own script, as it'll help you understand more
about doing things.

Personally I learned using sh and ksh... but now swear by bash or dash.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From slestak989 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 24 22:47:17 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:47:17 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
In-Reply-To: <1203911118.7571.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1203911118.7571.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <47C23A45.1010901@gmail.com>

Greg Folkert wrote:

pretty cool examples Greg!

From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Mon Feb 25 08:10:30 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:10:30 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Disable Internet access on your own laptop
In-Reply-To: <mailman.507.1203910615.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.507.1203910615.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <000301c877af$cdbbfad0$6933f070$@com>

>>"Try working for an hour and then "rewarding" yourself to five"
>   
>I dunno, that 5 minute reward may be like a AA member rewarding
him(her)self with a beer... ;)

Greg had a good response that I'm sure could be used by several others on
the list.  I personally limit Internet access using time-based access
controls on my Internet gateway and proxy.  With a firewall or proxy it's
easy enough to limit access based upon IP or MAC though this doesn't work
for a laptop that travels and you want that policy to apply to the host
system at all times.  So Greg's idea works in that situation and practicing
a little CLI action is a good idea.  But Steve had a good point that hit
home, last night I was checking e-mail and drifted over to Slashdot.
Unfortunately for me I was drinking a beer too...  ;)




From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Feb 25 08:45:19 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:45:19 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
In-Reply-To: <1203911118.7571.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1203911118.7571.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <20080225134519.GA17690@jrichards.org>

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 10:45:18PM -0500, Greg Folkert wrote:
[snip]
> 0 22 * * 0-4 /sbin/route del -net 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0 gw 192.168.1.1 dev eth0
> 0 8 * * 1-5 /sbin/route add -net 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0 gw 192.168.1.1 dev eth0
> 
> That works for my daughter's computer to shut her down at 10PM
> weeknights.

Oh, great.  Now when my ten-year-old turns fifteen, there will be yet
another reason I am the Worst. Parent. Ever.

In other words, what a great cron job!

[snip]
-- 
john-thomas
------
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C Clarke, science fiction writer (1917- )

From jtr at jrichards.org  Mon Feb 25 08:45:56 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:45:56 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
In-Reply-To: <47C23A45.1010901@gmail.com>
References: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<1203911118.7571.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<47C23A45.1010901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080225134556.GB17690@jrichards.org>

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 10:47:17PM -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
> Greg Folkert wrote:
> 
> pretty cool examples Greg!

Wow.  Greg is proud of himself.  ;-)
-- 
john-thomas
------
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's
troublesome.
Isaac Asimov, science-fiction writer (1920-1992)

From ssurdock at engineered-net.com  Mon Feb 25 09:04:56 2008
From: ssurdock at engineered-net.com (Steven Surdock)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:04:56 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Time-Based Internet Blocking?
In-Reply-To: <20080225134519.GA17690@jrichards.org>
References: <34da35260802241320h594a347fjbb78aced5f18f4f6@mail.gmail.com><1203911118.7571.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<20080225134519.GA17690@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A9A14@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>

My twelve year old hates DansGuardian + Squid on my firewall;-)  I use
OpenBSD with PF as my firewall and both PF and Squid support time-based
blocking, but it's server based and doesn't help the original poster
(unless he wants to convert his desktop to OpenBSD:-)

-Steve S.

grlug-bounces at grlug.org wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 10:45:18PM -0500, Greg Folkert wrote:
> [snip]
>> 0 22 * * 0-4 /sbin/route del -net 0.0.0.0 netmask 0.0.0.0 gw
>> 192.168.1.1 dev eth0 0 8 * * 1-5 /sbin/route add -net 0.0.0.0
>> netmask 0.0.0.0 gw 192.168.1.1 dev eth0 
>> 
>> That works for my daughter's computer to shut her down at 10PM
>> weeknights.
> 
> Oh, great.  Now when my ten-year-old turns fifteen, there will be yet
> another reason I am the Worst. Parent. Ever.

From verduin at ameritech.net  Mon Feb 25 13:28:25 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:28:25 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Interaction: NFS and mount loop
Message-ID: <1203964105.24091.183.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

I ran into something interesting this weekend.
What I think I *may* have learned is this:
   When an .iso image is mounted, 
     the internal contents of the .iso may *NOT* be accessed via NFS.
That was a surprise...

Here is what I am up to.  I have [two now, more later] old PCs to load
with a custom application for ham radio use as "remote" packet radio
station controllers.  I am searching for a good platform; FC-8, ubuntu
7.10, DSL, debian, have been considered.  DSL so far is the winner, but
I want to give debian a few more tries.

The raw machines don't have DVDs but they do have NICs so to install
FC-8 I set up FC to load via NFS.  I already have the FC-8...iso I used
for my server [update from hard drive option], so my first choice was to
mount the iso and point the raw machine into the mounted directory via
NFS for access to the material.  NOPE.  I had access to all directories
in the path except the last directory that I needed.  The NFS error
message refused to "mount the specified directory".

SO - I extracted [copied] the material from the .iso into it's own
directory structure.  This action did allow access to the distribution
material and the FC-8 install proceeded via NFS nicely.  Later the
install failed because of lack of space on the raw machine -- but at
least the install process worked.

As far as the installer is concerned, there is a difference between:
 a) a directory containing distribution material
 b) a directory mounted from a .iso containing distribution material
Now as I re-think the experience, I did not attempt a third option --
 c) a directory containing the .iso file containing dist. material
Excluding the c) option, I can swear to trying lots of parameter
varieties relative to the b) option all without joy.

To extract the .iso material, I did:
...# mount -o loop,ro -t iso9660 dl/file.iso spool
...# cp -a spool spool2
What I find to be interesting is that all commands from the command line
have equal access to both spool and spool2, and that NFS could serve
from spool2 but not from spool.  What it means to me is that:
  A) "NFS" and "mount -o loop" have a bad interaction
  B) I messed up the parameter set for my work

Does anyone have further insight into my experience?  Did I use wrong
parms on the mount or on NFS?  Is installer really excluded from access
to the contents of a .iso image by way NFS after mounting it?

After the FC experience, I did install debian via NFS from a mirror
somewhere on Internet starting from a floppy disk boot.  Presently I am
loading a mirror on my LAN to avoid bothering the Internet mirror again
as I try various configurations.

In any case -- If installer "should" be able to access a directory
mounted from a .iso image, I think I will report this to FC as a bug...

73
de [George (Skip) VerDuin] K8RRA k



From slestak989 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 25 13:32:52 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:32:52 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Interaction: NFS and mount loop
In-Reply-To: <1203964105.24091.183.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1203964105.24091.183.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47C309D4.7000702@gmail.com>

George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> Does anyone have further insight into my experience?  Did I use wrong
> parms on the mount or on NFS?  Is installer really excluded from access
> to the contents of a .iso image by way NFS after mounting it?
>   
I wonder if nfs3 vs nfs4 would behave differently?



From verduin at ameritech.net  Mon Feb 25 19:22:08 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:22:08 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Interaction: NFS and mount loop
In-Reply-To: <47C309D4.7000702@gmail.com>
References: <1203964105.24091.183.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47C309D4.7000702@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1203985328.24091.186.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

Good question Steve.

On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 13:32 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote:
> George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> > Does anyone have further insight into my experience?  Did I use wrong
> > parms on the mount or on NFS?  Is installer really excluded from access
> > to the contents of a .iso image by way NFS after mounting it?
> >   
> I wonder if nfs3 vs nfs4 would behave differently?
I'll try after debian mirror is built.


Warmest regards from here,
George


From verduin at ameritech.net  Tue Feb 26 16:24:48 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:24:48 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
Message-ID: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

Just as we discuss Asterisk in meeting and as I get ready to buy the
hardware to make it happen in my home, along comes a new hardware that
jumps the game to another level:
  see for example  www.openspeak.com

I've been looking for a while at Asterisk, plus various home-control
approaches that include creature comfort like heat, and security
including door locks/video/sound to remotely permit/monitor access.
These thoughts took root while I was checking my parents home in MI
while they were in FLA.

Why bring this up?  I'm a subscriber to conventional telephone and DSL,
but not to cable because my lifestyle would change for the worse to sit
before the tube for more hours than I do now (remotely).  I expect my
choice is on the fringe of normal.  As a meeting topic, would it be
useful to discuss the various external sources of services and the
effect it has on I/O devices we support under the Linux umbrella?  For
example:  I have heard but not validated the detail that my town is
seriously considering broad band over power line service & I'd be happy
to investigate the subject further for GRLUG.  Perhaps someone in GRLUG
already knows if/when fiber service is to be locally considered to
replace copper telephone/DSL.

I for one have interest in trying to tie a ribbon around the subject of
what services are being offered & considered by local providers and the
impact on my pocketbook as my computer I/Os change from generation to
generation.  I also am not certain how this subject flies inside GRLUG?

Warmest regards from here,
George


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 16:45:25 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:45:25 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47C48875.3030803@gmail.com>

Verizon FIOS was being rolled out in Baltimore as I was leaving. It 
promised AMAZING speed, for a good price. They are fighting with comcast 
for subscribers.

I dont doubt that if/when they get market share from cable, their rates 
will likely be more than cable.



From bob.kline at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 17:06:38 2008
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:06:38 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <47C48875.3030803@gmail.com>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47C48875.3030803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70802261406h109abbf8h53f6026e111546f5@mail.gmail.com>

Apparently 25, 50, and 100 Mbps down is
offered, and up to 15 Mbps up,  but FiOS
is not offered very many places yet.  There
are also fiber programs in the Houston and
Seattle areas.

In GR, AT&T has run fibers to within about
2,000 feet of the premises.  With that distance
the bit rate for DSL can be quite high.  Even
within a mile of the CO 6Mpbs is possible.

AT&T could run the fiber right to someone's
home on a premium basis, but doesn't that
I know of.  Broadband penetration has
slowed recently, perhaps part of the overall
deterioration of the economy.  AT&T response
to this is apparently to raise DSL prices,  since
lowering them more is not working just now.
I doubt it will show much interest in running
fibers to the home, even while I hope it does.

GR has-had a program to cover the city with
wireless.  One heard a lot about it a year ago
and more, but nothing recently.  A contract
was let out, but no prices were ever stated,
save that 5% of the capacity would go to the
poor for some nominal amount.  Otherwise,
the bit rate was quite mundane.  About 1.5Mbps
down,  maybe 128Kbps up.

Comcast apparently assigns 40Mbps per 500
customers, and figures that one a statistical
basis that is adquate.  It has been experimenting
with higher speeds, but these are clearly just
burst mode.  If you try to download a large file,
like a new DVD of Linux,  the speed will quickly
settle down to your nominal service speed.  The
burst speeds are intended to create the illusion
that the system is fast at the level of a web page.

Comcast has been called in to testify to the FCC
this week.  Despite assuring Congress that it
believes in, and practices, net neutrality,  it clearly
does neither.   Comcast claims it has to control
the movement of content in the name of managing
its network,  and so far the FCC seems to be
buying it.  In reality Comcast clearly seems to be
violating net neutrality even while it tells Congress
no new laws on the subject are needed.

Since Comcast is the 800 pound gorilla in GR
I doubt it will try to provide truly higher speeds
in the GR area any time soon.

   -Bob


On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Verizon FIOS was being rolled out in Baltimore as I was leaving. It
> promised AMAZING speed, for a good price. They are fighting with comcast
> for subscribers.
>
> I dont doubt that if/when they get market share from cable, their rates
> will likely be more than cable.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From verduin at ameritech.net  Tue Feb 26 22:45:58 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:45:58 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] One HUGE software repository
Message-ID: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

It looks like I made my next mistake yesterday.  The debian mirror is an
awesome thing.  Yet I'm far enough into it that I hate to cut bait
now...

I mentioned earlier that when I rebuilt my local system repeatedly for
practice it looked to me like having a local mirror would save wear and
tear on my DSL link and not irritate the debian guys.  The systems I
built took a couple hrs for the basic system and a couple more for the
desktop build.  I am now at 25GB and in the "i"s headed toward "z" after
a day [16(+)hrs] connected by rsync to the MSU repository.  And that
statistic is based on a long laundry list of exclusions from the full
set of materials.  This moment is not a full 24hr stint yet because the
transfer fell apart some time last night for unknown reasons.

I'm not certain where I went wrong yet, but after reading repository
documentation I expected maybe DSL hrs of 4X times a full desktop system
load to have the library local.  It may be more like 12X.

But quite frankly I probably would consume fewer DSL hrs building from a
Internet repository VS bringing it here.  *Not* maybe well done by yours
truly.

For anyone else in the group considering similar madness -- if you want
to share in it I can now claim to now have some experience?

Warmest regards from here,
George


From mikemol at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 23:06:43 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:06:43 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] One HUGE software repository
In-Reply-To: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802262006j6c815623gad70fda67508b009@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:45 PM, George (Skip) VerDuin
<verduin at ameritech.net> wrote:
> It looks like I made my next mistake yesterday.  The debian mirror is an
>  awesome thing.  Yet I'm far enough into it that I hate to cut bait
>  now...
>
>  I mentioned earlier that when I rebuilt my local system repeatedly for
>  practice it looked to me like having a local mirror would save wear and
>  tear on my DSL link and not irritate the debian guys.  The systems I
>  built took a couple hrs for the basic system and a couple more for the
>  desktop build.  I am now at 25GB and in the "i"s headed toward "z" after
>  a day [16(+)hrs] connected by rsync to the MSU repository.  And that
>  statistic is based on a long laundry list of exclusions from the full
>  set of materials.  This moment is not a full 24hr stint yet because the
>  transfer fell apart some time last night for unknown reasons.
>
>  I'm not certain where I went wrong yet, but after reading repository
>  documentation I expected maybe DSL hrs of 4X times a full desktop system
>  load to have the library local.  It may be more like 12X.
>
>  But quite frankly I probably would consume fewer DSL hrs building from a
>  Internet repository VS bringing it here.  *Not* maybe well done by yours
>  truly.
>
>  For anyone else in the group considering similar madness -- if you want
>  to share in it I can now claim to now have some experience?

Back when I was on dial-up, I'd download the latest Debian Testing CD
image set, burn them to disc, take them home and build the repository
that way.  I even had aspirations of getting the process published in
Linux Magazine, so I wrote an article.  I can't find the ODF,
though...Looks like it got lost when I suffered massive FS corruption
last winter.

I ended up switching to ordering CDs online after I got in trouble for
using too much of GRCC's monthly bandwidth budget...

xter


-- 
:wq

From jeffd at i2k.com  Tue Feb 26 23:14:03 2008
From: jeffd at i2k.com (Jeff DeFouw)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:14:03 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] One HUGE software repository
In-Reply-To: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <20080227041403.GA25687@blorp.plorb.com>

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:45:58PM -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> I mentioned earlier that when I rebuilt my local system repeatedly for
> practice it looked to me like having a local mirror would save wear and
> tear on my DSL link and not irritate the debian guys.  The systems I
> built took a couple hrs for the basic system and a couple more for the
> desktop build.  I am now at 25GB and in the "i"s headed toward "z" after
> a day [16(+)hrs] connected by rsync to the MSU repository.  And that
> statistic is based on a long laundry list of exclusions from the full
> set of materials.

The repositories include many different versions of the same packages, 
sources, patch files, and other developer data that you're unlikely to 
use.  Mirroring all of that is going to waste a lot of time and space, 
or require a very complex exclusion list (again, time).

I recommend using an automatic package cache program such as apt-cacher 
or apt-proxy.  Just point your installers at one of those programs, and 
the software will take care of storing local copies of only the packages 
you've been using.  I know one of them also has offline functions.

-- 
Jeff DeFouw <jeffd at i2k.com>

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Feb 27 00:09:07 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:09:07 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] One HUGE software repository
In-Reply-To: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <1204088947.16337.10.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 22:45 -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> It looks like I made my next mistake yesterday.  The debian mirror is an
> awesome thing.  Yet I'm far enough into it that I hate to cut bait
> now...
> 
> I mentioned earlier that when I rebuilt my local system repeatedly for
> practice it looked to me like having a local mirror would save wear and
> tear on my DSL link and not irritate the debian guys.  The systems I
> built took a couple hrs for the basic system and a couple more for the
> desktop build.  I am now at 25GB and in the "i"s headed toward "z" after
> a day [16(+)hrs] connected by rsync to the MSU repository.  And that
> statistic is based on a long laundry list of exclusions from the full
> set of materials.  This moment is not a full 24hr stint yet because the
> transfer fell apart some time last night for unknown reasons.
> 
> I'm not certain where I went wrong yet, but after reading repository
> documentation I expected maybe DSL hrs of 4X times a full desktop system
> load to have the library local.  It may be more like 12X.
> 
> But quite frankly I probably would consume fewer DSL hrs building from a
> Internet repository VS bringing it here.  *Not* maybe well done by yours
> truly.
> 
> For anyone else in the group considering similar madness -- if you want
> to share in it I can now claim to now have some experience?

Uhhh wow.

You have to remember, Debian has 13 platforms for which it has packages.
PLUS sources.

You have to exclude packages and other things for: PA-RISC, SPARC, PPC,
IA64 (Itanium), SH, OS390, Alpha, ARM, MIPS, MIPS-EL

Otherwise the entire repository is about 90+GB.

I used to host a Partial Debian repository. I had a TON OF EXCLUSION
PATTERNS (like 70-80) for my rsync script. BTW, rsync is the preferred
way to go for mirroring a Debian repository.

The initial D/L took 7 days and then 2 days to do the incremental, then
another day to finally catch up. Of course I was on a 1.1MiB line at the
time, I was maintaining 30 or so machines.

Now, to me its not even worth it any more.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From verduin at ameritech.net  Wed Feb 27 00:36:26 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:36:26 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] One HUGE software repository
In-Reply-To: <20080227041403.GA25687@blorp.plorb.com>
References: <1204083958.17429.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<20080227041403.GA25687@blorp.plorb.com>
Message-ID: <1204090586.17429.51.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

Thanks Jeff!

On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 23:14 -0500, Jeff DeFouw wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 10:45:58PM -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> >>SNIP<<
>  Mirroring all of that is going to waste a lot of time and space, 
> or require a very complex exclusion list (again, time).
Yup - I knew that going into this exercise.  What I missed is that the
"exclusion" specs themselves are perhaps not really all that straight
forward to create.  Or conversely -- that there is this large mass of
software that does not get loaded for the standard pre-configured
selections.

> 
> I recommend using an automatic package cache program such as apt-cacher 
> or apt-proxy.  Just point your installers at one of those programs, and 
> the software will take care of storing local copies of only the packages 
> you've been using.  I know one of them also has offline functions.
Now this is slick and new to my experience.  It is probably the best fit
for what I want to do if it allows some variation from load-to-load.  I
will get into the detail of this approach quite soon.  Sounds a little
like specialized squid proxy in theory?  Where did I have my head before
tonight?  Thanks again.

Warmest regards from here,
George


From adderd at kkmfg.com  Wed Feb 27 06:48:38 2008
From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:48:38 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47C54E16.60306@kkmfg.com>

George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> Just as we discuss Asterisk in meeting and as I get ready to buy the
> hardware to make it happen in my home, along comes a new hardware that
> jumps the game to another level:
>   see for example  www.openspeak.com
>
> I've been looking for a while at Asterisk, plus various home-control
> approaches that include creature comfort like heat, and security
> including door locks/video/sound to remotely permit/monitor access.
> These thoughts took root while I was checking my parents home in MI
> while they were in FLA.
>
>   

www.openspeak.com is a domain squatting page. And when I searched for 
openspeak in google it came up with links to a program geared toward 
gaming VoIP. Is that really what you are referring to?


From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 08:04:37 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:04:37 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <47C54E16.60306@kkmfg.com>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47C54E16.60306@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930802270504w6e755926u1c5ce1f34b31bbd2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 6:48 AM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:

> www.openspeak.com is a domain squatting page. And when I searched for
> openspeak in google it came up with links to a program geared toward
> gaming VoIP. Is that really what you are referring to?
>

I think he was going for http://www.openspeak.org/ .
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Feb 27 08:07:51 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:07:51 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <1204117671.16337.60.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 16:24 -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> Just as we discuss Asterisk in meeting and as I get ready to buy the
> hardware to make it happen in my home, along comes a new hardware that
> jumps the game to another level:
>   see for example  www.openspeak.com
> 
> I've been looking for a while at Asterisk, plus various home-control
> approaches that include creature comfort like heat, and security
> including door locks/video/sound to remotely permit/monitor access.
> These thoughts took root while I was checking my parents home in MI
> while they were in FLA.
> 
> Why bring this up?  I'm a subscriber to conventional telephone and DSL,
> but not to cable because my lifestyle would change for the worse to sit
> before the tube for more hours than I do now (remotely).  I expect my
> choice is on the fringe of normal.  As a meeting topic, would it be
> useful to discuss the various external sources of services and the
> effect it has on I/O devices we support under the Linux umbrella?  For
> example:  I have heard but not validated the detail that my town is
> seriously considering broad band over power line service & I'd be happy
> to investigate the subject further for GRLUG.  Perhaps someone in GRLUG
> already knows if/when fiber service is to be locally considered to
> replace copper telephone/DSL.
>
> I for one have interest in trying to tie a ribbon around the subject of
> what services are being offered & considered by local providers and the
> impact on my pocketbook as my computer I/Os change from generation to
> generation.  I also am not certain how this subject flies inside GRLUG?

Okay, since the last meeting I've been to and now, the virtual company I
work for has decided to deprecate our VOIP phone system, an Altigen 4.6
system.

We have decided to go with a hosted Asterisk SIP solution. From:
        www.aretta.com 

The costs involved before the switch are this:
        $1200/month (average) in long distance through "Lightwave" at
        $0.09 per minute
        $1100/month in T services from Lightwave
        $50/month T services surcharge from our colo hoster
        $200/month in rack space (its a large old 11u machine)
        $40/month for power
        $98/month for "1-800" service
        $400/month in "conference bridging" as the Altigen doesn't do it
        $200/month for services licensed from Altigen including:
                64 VOIP phone seats (we only need ~20, smallest they
                offer)
                Multi T-channel support
                PRI and BRI support
                4 lines of CO support (required to get call-groups and
                hunt groups)
                64 Voicemail boxes (again more than we need)
                20 Polycom phones with support (though they haven't been
                updated for 5 years, and Ploycom recs about a 7 year
                newer firmware than they have on them)
                various other things
                no DID support, costs more plus upgrades to
                hardware/OS/programs needed
                Windows 2000 is the OS (bleah)

Or $3288/month total cost just for the PHONE SYSTEM!
        
The services from Aretta are this:
        $178/month (projected average) in long distance at $0.011 per
        minute
        $199/month for hosted Asterisk in redundant locations (running
        on a Grid setup) with 32 phone calls at the same time.
        $60/month ($2/month x 30) for Local DID numbers for our
        customers (30 cities)
        $20/month for "1-800" service fee (mostly govt surcharge)
        $100/month for various packages like direct voip/sip calling
        $50/month for all "line fees" gov't taxes and so on

Or $607/month total cost. Or 18.4610706% the cost per month or almost
$2700/month in savings. Not to mention it doesn't impact our network
bandwidth to our facilities anymore, nor does our traffic impact our
phone system... just now found out that we can FAX directly into the
Asterisk system and have it part of our whole setup at no additional
charge... Buh-by fax service @ $90/month.

Did I also mention, that every feature the Alitgen has, we now have, as
well.

The best part of this: We no longer have to be hardware maintainers, nor
do we have to worry about disaster recovery, that is Aretta's problem
via contract.

Oh, we will also be the first (redundantly hosted) customer in the
fourth data-center they are opening in Utah later this week. fully
replicated and ready to go with just a DNS change from us (yeah we
wanted to control that)


In summary, If you have a distributed work-force and would like to have
a unified phone system, I'd give a hosted Asterisk setup a hard look. If
you only have one brick and mortar building and don't really have an
"upscale" Internet connection... (read as a T-1, or other guaranteed
uptime Internet service)  your phone system will only be as reliable as
your connection then, you might look at a Key-System from the likes of
Panasonic or similar (initial cost and setup ~$4000 for 10 phones).
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From verduin at ameritech.net  Wed Feb 27 12:03:22 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:03:22 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <47C54E16.60306@kkmfg.com>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47C54E16.60306@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <1204131802.17429.70.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

AArrrgg...

On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 06:48 -0500, Collin wrote:
> George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> > Just as we discuss Asterisk in meeting and as I get ready to buy the
> > hardware to make it happen in my home, along comes a new hardware that
> > jumps the game to another level:
> >   see for example  www.openspeak.com
This is a spelling error -- rather than retyping I should have
cut-n-paste.

The ref comes from Linux Journal March 2008, page 41 "New Products".
The site is www.openpeak.com, I visited it before writing and found
product info but not price and availability.  My guess is that the
device is based on a single board Linux embedded system.  These things
aren't going to show up in Best Buy for a while, they will be bundled by
orgs like Verison as noted by Steve earlier.

I'm very sorry for my mis-queue.

Warmest regards from here,
George


From verduin at ameritech.net  Wed Feb 27 13:38:22 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:38:22 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <1204117671.16337.60.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<1204117671.16337.60.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <1204137502.17429.148.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

What a story Greg!

On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 08:07 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 16:24 -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
>>SNIP<<
> Or $607/month total cost. Or 18.4610706% the cost per month or almost
> $2700/month in savings.
This is a shocker.  Think in terms of "order of magnitude" difference?
In my world make or break was more in terms of one penny out of thirty.

How long did it take for the economics to shift this far?

>>SNIP<<
> The best part of this: We no longer have to be hardware maintainers, nor
> do we have to worry about disaster recovery, that is Aretta's problem
> via contract.
Like insurance?  Let's hope it doesn't come to a test.  The solution you
mapped "feels good" from the perspective of (below) with lack of
redundancy.  Especially as we grow more physically remote while also
growing more interdependent on the intellect of others.

Recently I had contact with a Grand Haven based application service
company holding a contract with our beloved large phone company for
t-3(?) data service to a small server rack that hosted their database in
their own brick & mortar.  When the cable hardware was damaged the
contract was voided by the big company but the small company got the
black eye for missing their up-time target.

The small company addressed the problem by moving the server to Battle
Creek adjacent to trunk switch hardware on the Chicago-to-Ann Arbor
fiber run.  It is sometimes hard to be a small fish with big fish
feeding in the neighborhood.

> In summary, If you have a distributed work-force and would like to have
> a unified phone system, I'd give a hosted Asterisk setup a hard look. If
> you only have one brick and mortar building and don't really have an
> "upscale" Internet connection... (read as a T-1, or other guaranteed
> uptime Internet service)  your phone system will only be as reliable as
> your connection then, you might look at a Key-System from the likes of
> Panasonic or similar (initial cost and setup ~$4000 for 10 phones).
What started me down this path has more to do with feature
experimentation than with those issues needed to run a business.  Very
few really care if my phone doesn't work, but I'm gratified to be
participating in something solid enough to run a business over.

What am I looking to do?  Put automatically rejecting phone calls that
do not carry a caller ID [something I dub as phone spam] at the top of
the list.  I also want access to voice mail from afar pretty badly.

Thanks so much for your example -- it is refreshing to see it close to
home.

Warmest regards from here,
George


From adderd at kkmfg.com  Wed Feb 27 14:28:47 2008
From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:28:47 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <1204131802.17429.70.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>	<47C54E16.60306@kkmfg.com>
	<1204131802.17429.70.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47C5B9EF.5080000@kkmfg.com>


> This is a spelling error -- rather than retyping I should have
> cut-n-paste.
>
> The ref comes from Linux Journal March 2008, page 41 "New Products".
> The site is www.openpeak.com, I visited it before writing and found
> product info but not price and availability.  My guess is that the
> device is based on a single board Linux embedded system.  These things
> aren't going to show up in Best Buy for a while, they will be bundled by
> orgs like Verison as noted by Steve earlier.
>
> I'm very sorry for my mis-queue.
>
> Warmest regards from here,
> George
>
>   

It certainly looks nice but I'm pretty sure that every picture of it is 
a 3d render and that it's totally vaporware at this point. The lack of 
any real information on it only serves to prove to me that they in 
reality have nothing to show for themselves just yet. Though, I hope 
they do actually come out with it some day.


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Feb 27 15:21:51 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:21:51 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] telephony shake-up again
In-Reply-To: <1204137502.17429.148.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1204061088.24091.261.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<1204117671.16337.60.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<1204137502.17429.148.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <1204143711.16337.79.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 13:38 -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> What a story Greg!
> 
> On Wed, 2008-02-27 at 08:07 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 16:24 -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> >>SNIP<<
> > Or $607/month total cost. Or 18.4610706% the cost per month or almost
> > $2700/month in savings.
> This is a shocker.  Think in terms of "order of magnitude" difference?
> In my world make or break was more in terms of one penny out of thirty.
> 
> How long did it take for the economics to shift this far?

Only in the last 2 years has it *REALLY* come down to economy of scale.
Since Aretta is doing widescale and large scale Asterisk hosting, they
are direct customers of companies of Level3 and Crossroads and Cogentco,
etc... The cost of long distance is so trivial for companies like
Aretta, as they and many other are using "phone exchange clearing
houses" to have nearly zero cost per minute for long distance for them.
They pay a monthly sum to the clearing house... Aretta also provides
services to the clearing house for the reduced sum... a lot like
Internet peering.


> >>SNIP<<
> > The best part of this: We no longer have to be hardware maintainers, nor
> > do we have to worry about disaster recovery, that is Aretta's problem
> > via contract.
> Like insurance?  Let's hope it doesn't come to a test.  The solution you
> mapped "feels good" from the perspective of (below) with lack of
> redundancy.  Especially as we grow more physically remote while also
> growing more interdependent on the intellect of others.

Aretta has seven nines (99.99999%) of uptime guarantees with their
connectivity providers via contracts across the four regional
data-centers in the US. Plus they have disaster recovery plans for each
data center. And since our stuff is "an appliance"


> Recently I had contact with a Grand Haven based application service
> company holding a contract with our beloved large phone company for
> t-3(?) data service to a small server rack that hosted their database in
> their own brick & mortar.  When the cable hardware was damaged the
> contract was voided by the big company but the small company got the
> black eye for missing their up-time target.
> 
> The small company addressed the problem by moving the server to Battle
> Creek adjacent to trunk switch hardware on the Chicago-to-Ann Arbor
> fiber run.  It is sometimes hard to be a small fish with big fish
> feeding in the neighborhood.

Its all in the contracts and how things are covered.

> > In summary, If you have a distributed work-force and would like to have
> > a unified phone system, I'd give a hosted Asterisk setup a hard look. If
> > you only have one brick and mortar building and don't really have an
> > "upscale" Internet connection... (read as a T-1, or other guaranteed
> > uptime Internet service)  your phone system will only be as reliable as
> > your connection then, you might look at a Key-System from the likes of
> > Panasonic or similar (initial cost and setup ~$4000 for 10 phones).
> What started me down this path has more to do with feature
> experimentation than with those issues needed to run a business.  Very
> few really care if my phone doesn't work, but I'm gratified to be
> participating in something solid enough to run a business over.
> 
> What am I looking to do?  Put automatically rejecting phone calls that
> do not carry a caller ID [something I dub as phone spam] at the top of
> the list.  I also want access to voice mail from afar pretty badly.

One word: Vonage

I've had Vonage for a while now and the cost is $30 a month (complete).
I can block non-id'd calls for no additional cost, I get voice-mail via
a local phone call (they have a list of them for each exchange) and also
via the website. As long as you can download/stream the sound file. And
you don't even have to have a device for them to work, you can make it
forward phone calls to you that pass validation.

> Thanks so much for your example -- it is refreshing to see it close to
> home.

Well, we have two local people here. But that is about as local as it
gets.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 12:26:45 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:26:45 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] [INFO]  Freelancers Union
In-Reply-To: <mailman.521.1204145911.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.521.1204145911.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <001801c87a2f$189af840$0202fea9@bigburner>

Here is some information that may be of interest to those of you that are
working as independents.

National Attention for Independent Workers and Freelancers Union!

This month, the PBS newsmagazine NOW devoted a whole episode to independent
workers and Freelancers Union.  Now it's available online, and we hope
you'll take the time to watch it.
 
The program features an interview with Freelancers Union Executive Director
Sara Horowitz and includes a roundtable discussion between Freelancers Union
members and the New York State Department of Labor Commissioner Patricia
Smith.
 
Here's where to watch the show:
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/407/index.html

For more information about Freelancers Union membership, benefits, or
insurance, visit the website at www.freelancersunion.org.


From erickson.adam.m at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 15:17:59 2008
From: erickson.adam.m at gmail.com (Adam M. Erickson)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:17:59 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Control PC from web link
Message-ID: <7cd69fdf0802281217o7633af5ep1d5416acdbbe800f@mail.gmail.com>

Have you seen ads for  www.bomgar.com

Does anyone know of software that could be set up that would allow for
Remote PC access to several O/S clients. I like how Bomgar works
because it supports Ubuntu and can be run from Suse but also supports
several other types of O/S's.

It costs $2000...Does anyone know of anything opensource that could
work on Linux and Windows?
Where all the client would have to do is click on a link from a web
page to begin.

Any details or links would be greatly appreciated. I am aware of
realVNC and gotomycomputer, but was looking for something that works
more like bomgar where I could turn IT support into a business or
offer support to my family if they agree to switch to Linux ;)

From ssurdock at engineered-net.com  Thu Feb 28 15:47:01 2008
From: ssurdock at engineered-net.com (Steven Surdock)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:47:01 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Control PC from web link
In-Reply-To: <7cd69fdf0802281217o7633af5ep1d5416acdbbe800f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7cd69fdf0802281217o7633af5ep1d5416acdbbe800f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A9B7B@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>

I'm not sure it applies, but I've been looking at using reverse VNC to
support remote users (mostly family).

Check this link out:  http://www.uvnc.com/pchelpware/sc/index.html or
google for "reverse vnc".

-Steve S.

grlug-bounces at grlug.org wrote:
> Have you seen ads for  www.bomgar.com
> 
> Does anyone know of software that could be set up that would allow for
> Remote PC access to several O/S clients. I like how Bomgar works
> because it supports Ubuntu and can be run from Suse but also supports
> several other types of O/S's. 
> 
> It costs $2000...Does anyone know of anything opensource that could
> work on Linux and Windows? Where all the client would have to do is
> click on a link from a web page to begin. 
> 
> Any details or links would be greatly appreciated. I am aware of
> realVNC and gotomycomputer, but was looking for something that works
> more like bomgar where I could turn IT support into a business or
> offer support to my family if they agree to switch to Linux ;)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Thu Feb 28 15:48:24 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:48:24 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Control PC from web link
In-Reply-To: <7cd69fdf0802281217o7633af5ep1d5416acdbbe800f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7cd69fdf0802281217o7633af5ep1d5416acdbbe800f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1204231704.16337.130.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Thu, 2008-02-28 at 15:17 -0500, Adam M. Erickson wrote:
> Have you seen ads for  www.bomgar.com
> 
> Does anyone know of software that could be set up that would allow for
> Remote PC access to several O/S clients. I like how Bomgar works
> because it supports Ubuntu and can be run from Suse but also supports
> several other types of O/S's.
> 
> It costs $2000...Does anyone know of anything opensource that could
> work on Linux and Windows?
> Where all the client would have to do is click on a link from a web
> page to begin.
> 
> Any details or links would be greatly appreciated. I am aware of
> realVNC and gotomycomputer, but was looking for something that works
> more like bomgar where I could turn IT support into a business or
> offer support to my family if they agree to switch to Linux ;)

You see services like this are a "tell me where you are so I can tell
others where you are" service.

Sort of like Dynamic DNS services.

Setting up Linux to do this is as simple as setting up a one of the
dynamic dns clients available to update the public IP on a regular
basis.

With ssh open, there is literally nothing you cannot do remotely,
including login in via a GUI using XDMCP. You can't do bare-metal
console viewing though... but you can't with bomgar either unless you
buy the enterprise version and even then you have to allocate a second
IP for it.

As for Windows remote control... RDP was made for this exact reason. ALL
WindowsXP versions have a single license for RDP connections. Win2K does
as well... I'd not support Vista at all.

As far as Mac OSX, they now have a built in Desktop Sharing via VNC(ish)

Gnome has VINO as well if you want that kind of thing. KDE has something
as well.

I think the KEY really is getting the public IP address to be something
knowable and setting up the "router" to forward the ports to these
certain machines ports.

Its far cheaper using what is there and enabling it, than buying a
service like this.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From brousch at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 16:09:33 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:09:33 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Control PC from web link
In-Reply-To: <1204231704.16337.130.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <7cd69fdf0802281217o7633af5ep1d5416acdbbe800f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1204231704.16337.130.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930802281309j52524fb7k456fc53f7b2636b4@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:

>
> > It costs $2000...Does anyone know of anything opensource that could
> > work on Linux and Windows?
> > Where all the client would have to do is click on a link from a web
> > page to begin.
> >
> > Any details or links would be greatly appreciated. I am aware of
> > realVNC and gotomycomputer, but was looking for something that works
> > more like bomgar where I could turn IT support into a business or
> > offer support to my family if they agree to switch to Linux ;)
>

Before DynDNS and such were user-friendly, I set up a simple php web page
that emailed to me the IP address of whoever visited the page. Then I would
give my family a shortcut/bookmark to that page. They would call me up
letting me know that they needed help, then visit the bookmarked page. I
would then VNC or SSH into their computer and fix things.
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From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 19:55:05 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:55:05 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Remote Control PC from web link
In-Reply-To: <869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A9B7B@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>
References: <7cd69fdf0802281217o7633af5ep1d5416acdbbe800f@mail.gmail.com>
	<869F1268DF73444BA076E4FA523AFD613A9B7B@fs01.internal.engineered-net.com>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0802281655q54d521fev11385deced07641a@mail.gmail.com>

If you are using Ubuntu, UltraVNC SC has a problem with the vnc client
that ships with Ubuntu

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/123631

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Steven Surdock
<ssurdock at engineered-net.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure it applies, but I've been looking at using reverse VNC to
>  support remote users (mostly family).
>
>  Check this link out:  http://www.uvnc.com/pchelpware/sc/index.html or
>  google for "reverse vnc".
>
>  -Steve S.
>
>
>
>  grlug-bounces at grlug.org wrote:
>  > Have you seen ads for  www.bomgar.com
>  >
>  > Does anyone know of software that could be set up that would allow for
>  > Remote PC access to several O/S clients. I like how Bomgar works
>  > because it supports Ubuntu and can be run from Suse but also supports
>  > several other types of O/S's.
>  >
>  > It costs $2000...Does anyone know of anything opensource that could
>  > work on Linux and Windows? Where all the client would have to do is
>  > click on a link from a web page to begin.
>  >
>  > Any details or links would be greatly appreciated. I am aware of
>  > realVNC and gotomycomputer, but was looking for something that works
>  > more like bomgar where I could turn IT support into a business or
>  > offer support to my family if they agree to switch to Linux ;)
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Fri Feb 29 09:41:58 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:41:58 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Interaction: NFS and mount loop
In-Reply-To: <1203964105.24091.183.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1203964105.24091.183.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <1204296118.16337.161.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 13:28 -0500, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> I ran into something interesting this weekend.
> What I think I *may* have learned is this:
>    When an .iso image is mounted, 
>      the internal contents of the .iso may *NOT* be accessed via NFS.
> That was a surprise...
> 
[snip]
> To extract the .iso material, I did:
> ...# mount -o loop,ro -t iso9660 dl/file.iso spool
> ...# cp -a spool spool2
> What I find to be interesting is that all commands from the command line
> have equal access to both spool and spool2, and that NFS could serve
> from spool2 but not from spool.  What it means to me is that:
>   A) "NFS" and "mount -o loop" have a bad interaction
>   B) I messed up the parameter set for my work
> 
> Does anyone have further insight into my experience?  Did I use wrong
> parms on the mount or on NFS?  Is installer really excluded from access
> to the contents of a .iso image by way NFS after mounting it?

Okay, with NFS and exporting an ISO loopback mounted filesystem, you
have to force it to be shared as read-only for everything and all
quashing:

	/exports/iso/fc.iso    (ro,insecure,all_squash)

That is assuming you want EVERYONE to be able to mount it.


> After the FC experience, I did install debian via NFS from a mirror
> somewhere on Internet starting from a floppy disk boot.  Presently I am
> loading a mirror on my LAN to avoid bothering the Internet mirror again
> as I try various configurations.
> 
> In any case -- If installer "should" be able to access a directory
> mounted from a .iso image, I think I will report this to FC as a bug...

That Debian mirror is HUGE. I'd think twice. (of course we already know
how you fared on that)
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From phillip at phtconsulting.com  Fri Feb 29 12:47:48 2008
From: phillip at phtconsulting.com (Phillip Hebenstreit)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:47:48 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] Announcement - West Michigan Cisco Users Group
In-Reply-To: <d9ee72200802290829s661fb760s1abc6b9ca32a6085@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200802290829s661fb760s1abc6b9ca32a6085@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d9ee72200802290947i396d8d43t2a08cbec5550f257@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I hope you are doing well today.

There is a new Cisco Users Group in Grand Rapids, Michigan and we would like
to ask if you could distribute this informal announcement to your membership
and anyone else you feel would be interested in this new Cisco Users Group.

If you have any question please feel to contact us at our temporary email
address:
                   WestMichiganCiscoUG at gmail.com




Thank you so much,

West Michigan Cisco Users Group
WestMichiganCiscoUG at gmail.com






-- 

Phillip Hebenstreit
PHT Consulting
1436 Harding Street N.W.
Grand Rapids, MI  49544

http://www.phtconsulting.com

phone:  616.802.7181
fax:       253.663.1174
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From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb 29 14:36:10 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey Dubois)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:36:10 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Hello GRLUG,

The SF-LUG has a unique install fest this Saturday.

We're trying to donate 500 Ubuntu computers to Bay Area schools this SATURDAY, March 1... and we need your help!

Can you lend a hand by volunteering to install Ubuntu?  Signup to volunteer at one of the four locations (San Francisco, San Mateo, Berkeley or Novato) here:

   http://wiki.untangle.com/index.php/Installfest

Untangle and the ACCRC refurbishing hundreds of older/discarded computers that the ACCRC has collected with Ubuntu and donating them to Northern California schools.  We need support from the F/OSS community to help with the installs.  We have automated as much of the install as possible so anyone can help regardless of their experience level. Of course we'll get error messages so we need gurus also!  ...And the Mozilla Foundation is bringing pizza & schwag to each location!  Thanks Mozilla!

Installfest for Schools homepage:

   http://www.untangle.com/installfest


I really like this idea and was wondering if the GRLUG would have interest in doing this type of thing on a smaller basis.

How about if we start with 100 machines to load and donate?

Any interest?

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."


From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 14:45:26 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:45:26 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
In-Reply-To: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Casey Dubois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
>  I really like this idea and was wondering if the GRLUG would have interest in doing this type of thing on a smaller basis.
>
>  How about if we start with 100 machines to load and donate?
>
>  Any interest?

I'd be interested.  I'll also check with the GRCC Computer Club and
the ATC computer lab folks, to see if we can pull some volunteers from
the college.


-- 
:wq

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 14:47:50 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:47:50 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Casey Dubois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
>  [snip]
>
> >
>  >  I really like this idea and was wondering if the GRLUG would have interest in doing this type of thing on a smaller basis.
>  >
>  >  How about if we start with 100 machines to load and donate?
>  >
>  >  Any interest?
>
>  I'd be interested.  I'll also check with the GRCC Computer Club and
>  the ATC computer lab folks, to see if we can pull some volunteers from
>  the college.

Something to think about, though...Where would these computers be
going?  Not every school is going to want to add externally prepared
computers to their list of equipment they need to maintain.


-- 
:wq

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 15:22:58 2008
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:22:58 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81e08d920802291222g230fa085t6de6f3239c204659@mail.gmail.com>

Why not just install LTSP on one 16 Core Server, get a bunch of PXE
nics. And boot them all at once, just to see if the money you saved on
HardDrives was worth it. Plus the electric bill would be a lot less.

Just my two cents, but maintenance would sure be a lot easier if you
didn't have to upgrade the kernels in 500 machines, cause someone
forgot about that dang ol vmsplice().


On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Casey Dubois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
>  >  [snip]
>  >
>  > >
>  >  >  I really like this idea and was wondering if the GRLUG would have interest in doing this type of thing on a smaller basis.
>  >  >
>  >  >  How about if we start with 100 machines to load and donate?
>  >  >
>  >  >  Any interest?
>  >
>  >  I'd be interested.  I'll also check with the GRCC Computer Club and
>  >  the ATC computer lab folks, to see if we can pull some volunteers from
>  >  the college.
>
>  Something to think about, though...Where would these computers be
>  going?  Not every school is going to want to add externally prepared
>  computers to their list of equipment they need to maintain.
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  :wq
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 15:35:24 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:35:24 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920802291222g230fa085t6de6f3239c204659@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>
	<81e08d920802291222g230fa085t6de6f3239c204659@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802291235l7e96939fq3fda078c2cd156d9@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Justin Denick <justin.denick at gmail.com> wrote:
> Why not just install LTSP on one 16 Core Server, get a bunch of PXE
>  nics. And boot them all at once, just to see if the money you saved on
>  HardDrives was worth it. Plus the electric bill would be a lot less.
>
>  Just my two cents, but maintenance would sure be a lot easier if you
>  didn't have to upgrade the kernels in 500 machines, cause someone
>  forgot about that dang ol vmsplice().

Where are you going to find the 16-core server to donate?  For that
matter, who would do the post-install network maintenance?

-- 
:wq

From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 15:51:09 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:51:09 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0802291251t65a5fa0ek7f3b009361dbb267@mail.gmail.com>

But there are other non profits, Love INC for example, that could use
them and are not as worried about maintenance.

This would be a good project for the GRLUG



On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Casey Dubois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
>  >  [snip]
>  >
>  > >
>  >  >  I really like this idea and was wondering if the GRLUG would have interest in doing this type of thing on a smaller basis.
>  >  >
>  >  >  How about if we start with 100 machines to load and donate?
>  >  >
>  >  >  Any interest?
>  >
>  >  I'd be interested.  I'll also check with the GRCC Computer Club and
>  >  the ATC computer lab folks, to see if we can pull some volunteers from
>  >  the college.
>
>  Something to think about, though...Where would these computers be
>  going?  Not every school is going to want to add externally prepared
>  computers to their list of equipment they need to maintain.
>
>
>
>
>  --
>  :wq
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 15:58:54 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:58:54 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
In-Reply-To: <cea1322a0802291251t65a5fa0ek7f3b009361dbb267@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>
	<cea1322a0802291251t65a5fa0ek7f3b009361dbb267@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450802291258ra527df7p71cbbba6a124c7a6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Joe Vanderstelt
<thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com> wrote:
> But there are other non profits, Love INC for example, that could use
>  them and are not as worried about maintenance.
>
>  This would be a good project for the GRLUG

I agree.  But before I can make pitches elsewhere to get volunteers, I
need to be able to put together a halfway-decent info packet.  And a
little prior planning for the project doesn't hurt, either. :-)

So, with that in mind, here is a list of things to be addressed:
* Where are the PCs coming from?
* What will be the minimum performance level for the machines?
* Can we get parts to upgrade poorer machines to this minimum?
* What distribution will be installed on *all* of the machines?
(Determined by the minimum performance level)
* Who will want the machines?
* Can they take care of the machines? How do we ensure that we don't
become a maintenance crutch. Or do we want to do support?
* Where will the install fest work take place?

For my information packet, I'll need to at least know where the
machines are coming from, where they'll be going and where people will
need to show up in order to help.


-- 
:wq

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Fri Feb 29 16:33:01 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey Dubois)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:33:01 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] SFLUG Donating Open Source computers to schools
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450802291258ra527df7p71cbbba6a124c7a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C4DE@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<f5e00c450802291145i1a888583u74b9988e48782a40@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802291147l6ba0e7atb10c23d54d50e908@mail.gmail.com>
	<cea1322a0802291251t65a5fa0ek7f3b009361dbb267@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450802291258ra527df7p71cbbba6a124c7a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4121C569@NVMBX01.nvint.local>


On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Joe Vanderstelt
<thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com> wrote:
> But there are other non profits, Love INC for example, that could use
>  them and are not as worried about maintenance.
>
>  This would be a good project for the GRLUG

I agree.  But before I can make pitches elsewhere to get volunteers, I
need to be able to put together a halfway-decent info packet.  And a
little prior planning for the project doesn't hurt, either. :-)

So, with that in mind, here is a list of things to be addressed:
* Where are the PCs coming from?

I would try to find a quantity of identical machines from a local Business or we could take donations and purchase used systems.

* What will be the minimum performance level for the machines?

This will be determined by what I can get. (what are the suggested minimum I should look for)?

* Can we get parts to upgrade poorer machines to this minimum?

I would try to get x-tra systems so we can use some for spare parts.

* What distribution will be installed on *all* of the machines?
(Determined by the minimum performance level)

I was thinking Ubuntu like SFLUG

* Who will want the machines?

I don't think finding a worthy school or non profit would be an issue I liked the Love Inc idea.

* Can they take care of the machines? How do we ensure that we don't
become a maintenance crutch. Or do we want to do support?

We would prefer someone that can take care of them but if they cannot I believe there would be members that could offer affordable support.

* Where will the install fest work take place?

I have not checked with the boss yet but was thinking of the install fest here @ N-Vint in Caledonia OR I have a location in Jenison with plenty of room.

For my information packet, I'll need to at least know where the
machines are coming from, where they'll be going and where people will
need to show up in order to help.

If the group is interested I can offer the following:

1. Locate systems
2. Transport and store the systems
3. Locate homes for them
4. Provide Install location

Casey

--
:wq
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