From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 06:42:34 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:42:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <30bcf8860807311300k13cda07n7f2639d377791916@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450807311203h4e92ed7aia5c7d634d93dbf4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DAD62F9671F2B4086B98467C14EE7D30554BA1A@nahollex01.NA.Haworthinc.com>
	<e8898d550807311252u3a9dd916xe869a6e532dfccbf@mail.gmail.com>
	<30bcf8860807311300k13cda07n7f2639d377791916@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1217587354.12652.12.camel@linux-nnci.site>

On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 16:00 -0400, mailtonick wrote:
> I second more discussion about VMs

We're just wrapping up our deployment of ESX and migrating our servers.
What would you want to know?



From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 08:58:06 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:58:06 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670807311309y4bc439dbrbe85a838d3522302@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450807311203h4e92ed7aia5c7d634d93dbf4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DAD62F9671F2B4086B98467C14EE7D30554BA1A@nahollex01.NA.Haworthinc.com>
	<f0ffba670807311309y4bc439dbrbe85a838d3522302@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1217595486.5999.10.camel@linux-nnci.site>

> It seems that everyone missed my post for the joint GRLUG/GR-JUG
> meeting on the 17th of this month as Adam and I were the only GRLUG
> members to represent.
> On August 15th and 16th is BarCamp 3 @ Calvin and I would like to ask
> for GRLUG members to attend and present on what they know.
> I was thinking that Joe could do his CUPS presentation, Steve could
> talk about NOMachine, etc. Who's IN???
> Please register @ www.barcampgr.org
> Thoughts?

<aside> I thought it was against the rules of barcamp to plan ahead?</aside>

I plan on doing a presentation at barcamp,  although I haven't selected
a topic.  I'd probably do one I've done in the past and just "refresh"
it.  If anyone seems anything they are interested in at
<http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/node/30> let me know an I'll bias
towards that one. 


From casey at grlug.org  Fri Aug  1 09:39:46 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:39:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0807311647s3843325bp166d9d9c167d6e4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450807311203h4e92ed7aia5c7d634d93dbf4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DAD62F9671F2B4086B98467C14EE7D30554BA1A@nahollex01.NA.Haworthinc.com>
	<f0ffba670807311309y4bc439dbrbe85a838d3522302@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0807311647s3843325bp166d9d9c167d6e4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670808010639y38239a2akbd6e948748181e69@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>> We did a CUPS presentation a few months back which I recorded with the
>> intentions of posting on the site. My Video camera has since broken so
>> I have NO way to upload from DV are there any members that could
>> import the DV's I have and get posted to the site?
>
> Casey,
>
> I have a miniDV camera, all necessary hardware, and software (all
> FOSS) to get the job done.  I could swing by Nvint tomorrow afternoon
> (around 4:15ish?) to pick up the tape, and have it on the intertubes
> later that night.


Thank You Tim,
This would be great however the tapes are at home in Jenison.
I would also be VERY interested in the FOSS software you use for
recording and editing video/audio.

Could we meet up next week?
Casey

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 10:35:45 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:35:45 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670808010639y38239a2akbd6e948748181e69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f5e00c450807311203h4e92ed7aia5c7d634d93dbf4d@mail.gmail.com>
	<2DAD62F9671F2B4086B98467C14EE7D30554BA1A@nahollex01.NA.Haworthinc.com>
	<f0ffba670807311309y4bc439dbrbe85a838d3522302@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0807311647s3843325bp166d9d9c167d6e4e@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0ffba670808010639y38239a2akbd6e948748181e69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0808010735m43b1364fhc003148955d0c60f@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> Thank You Tim,
> This would be great however the tapes are at home in Jenison.
> I would also be VERY interested in the FOSS software you use for
> recording and editing video/audio.

To get video off our DV camera, I use dvgrab exclusively.  It
generally then gets processed with Kino and Avidemux.

We've also got a digital still camera that takes video in MJPEG
format, and a digital video camera that takes video on internal flash
in MPEG4 format.  Those skip Kino and go straight to Avidemux.

If any of them need more comprehensive work, I've had great success
with Kdenlive.

> Could we meet up next week?

Certainly.  Just let me know when.

--tim

From rh90p at comcast.net  Fri Aug  1 10:51:40 2008
From: rh90p at comcast.net (rh90p at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:51:40 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
Message-ID: <080120081451.23237.489322FC0001540100005AC52200758942CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>

I have a strong interest in Agile Software development and therefore I would like to learn how to be able to collaborate across the net.  My laptop has a built in camera, and if it didn't there are those little USB things, and ports to plug in a head set so I would like to stream audio and video and share my desktop with a specific individual so that we could 'pair' program. 

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Casey DuBois" <casey at grlug.org>
> Hey GRLUG,
> 
> It seems that everyone missed my post for the joint GRLUG/GR-JUG
> meeting on the 17th of this month as Adam and I were the only GRLUG
> members to represent.
> 
> We did a CUPS presentation a few months back which I recorded with the
> intentions of posting on the site. My Video camera has since broken so
> I have NO way to upload from DV are there any members that could
> import the DV's I have and get posted to the site?
> 
> On August 15th and 16th is BarCamp 3 @ Calvin and I would like to ask
> for GRLUG members to attend and present on what they know.
> 
> I was thinking that Joe could do his CUPS presentation, Steve could
> talk about NOMachine, etc. Who's IN???
> 
> Please register @ www.barcampgr.org
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Casey
> 
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Bill Pribble <Bill.Pribble at haworth.com> wrote:
> > I would be interested in learning more in managing printing from different 
> platforms Unix (various vendors) and Linux (and if possible, Windows) using CUPS
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bill Pribble
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org on behalf of Michael Mol
> > Sent: Thu 7/31/2008 3:03 PM
> > To: grlug at grlug.org
> > Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
> >
> >
> >
> > It's been a while since we've had a meeting.  If we were to have one
> > in the next couple months, what are the topics that would interest
> > people, either in the context of personal projects or professional?
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 11:24:24 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:24:24 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <080120081451.23237.489322FC0001540100005AC52200758942CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
References: <080120081451.23237.489322FC0001540100005AC52200758942CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450808010824j797e07cft62a9f6af20fa766b@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:51 AM,  <rh90p at comcast.net> wrote:
> I have a strong interest in Agile Software development and therefore I would like to learn how to be able to collaborate across the net.  My laptop has a built in camera, and if it didn't there are those little USB things, and ports to plug in a head set so I would like to stream audio and video and share my desktop with a specific individual so that we could 'pair' program.

VNC and voice chat is probably more appropriate; IME, when you're team
coding, you're looking at code, not each other.

-- 
:wq

From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Fri Aug  1 12:16:01 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 12:16:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450808010824j797e07cft62a9f6af20fa766b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <080120081451.23237.489322FC0001540100005AC52200758942CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
	<f5e00c450808010824j797e07cft62a9f6af20fa766b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1217607361.5294.17.camel@linux-nnci.site>

On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 11:24 -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:51 AM,  <rh90p at comcast.net> wrote:
> > I have a strong interest in Agile Software development and therefore I would like to learn how to be able to collaborate across the net.  My laptop has a built in camera, and if it didn't there are those little USB things, and ports to plug in a head set so I would like to stream audio and video and share my desktop with a specific individual so that we could 'pair' program.
> VNC and voice chat is probably more appropriate; IME, when you're team
> coding, you're looking at code, not each other.

All the collaborative coding I've done has been using XMPP;  most other
tools end up being more in the way than they help.  I've used Ekiga a
few times,  but always found that coding while someone is talking at you
isn't very comfortable/productive.

The only thing I've ever missed is some kind of whiteboard and the
ability to automatically log my chat logs into the project repository or
related groupware server.


From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  1 13:31:54 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:31:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450807311203h4e92ed7aia5c7d634d93dbf4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <491083.14731.qm@web80403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

my linux laptop stopped working probably a hardware
problem, but i can bring it in for something to do if
there are tools :).


--- Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's been a while since we've had a meeting.  If we
> were to have one
> in the next couple months, what are the topics that
> would interest
> people, either in the context of personal projects
> or professional?
> 
> -- 
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 


From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Aug  2 20:49:31 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 20:49:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
Message-ID: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>

I have begun learning LaTeX (typesetting) and would like a book or two
on it.  The Grand Rapids library system does not have any books on LaTeX
so I thought I would turn you to ask if any of you have any books on
LaTeX that you are willing to part with cheap (and I mean *cheap*).

Anyone?
-- 
john-thomas
------
A failure is a man who has blundered but is not able to cash in on the
experience.
Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)

From mikemol at gmail.com  Sat Aug  2 21:04:21 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 21:04:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
In-Reply-To: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
References: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450808021804n28ba1845i9f200595eaf70b31@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 8:49 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> I have begun learning LaTeX (typesetting) and would like a book or two
> on it.  The Grand Rapids library system does not have any books on LaTeX
> so I thought I would turn you to ask if any of you have any books on
> LaTeX that you are willing to part with cheap (and I mean *cheap*).
>
> Anyone?

Is free cheap enough? (I *think* these are legal...)

http://www.freebookcentre.net/SoftwareEng/Free-Tex-Latex-Books-Download.html

Somewhere, I've got a bookmark for a free book that I *know* is legal,
and is pretty good to boot.  I'll see if I can find it when I get
home.

-- 
:wq

From rh90p at comcast.net  Sat Aug  2 23:44:42 2008
From: rh90p at comcast.net (rh90p at comcast.net)
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:44:42 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
Message-ID: <080320080344.4290.489529AA00024C1A000010C22207001641CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>

There are several artiicles on tldp.org

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org>
> I have begun learning LaTeX (typesetting) and would like a book or two
> on it.  The Grand Rapids library system does not have any books on LaTeX
> so I thought I would turn you to ask if any of you have any books on
> LaTeX that you are willing to part with cheap (and I mean *cheap*).
> 
> Anyone?
> -- 
> john-thomas
> ------
> A failure is a man who has blundered but is not able to cash in on the
> experience.
> Elbert Hubbard (1856-1915)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  3 10:40:15 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 07:40:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450808021804n28ba1845i9f200595eaf70b31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <644047.1867.qm@web80406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes your best bet is to is to access the many free
books online like Mr. Mol suggests.  I did a
presentation on LaTeX at the wmlug a couple months
ago.  

I do have the LaTeX Companion Box Set, but since new
packages are coming all the time, and I think they are
on LaTeX 3 now, you are better off accessing the
documentation.  It's nice having a reference book for
commands, but they really aren't better or offer
anything more than the free online stuff (but I
contributed to the project buy buying).

Make sure you have TeXLive -

http://www.tug.org/texlive/

And then for the absolute beginner I would first
suggest:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX

http://tobi.oetiker.ch/lshort/lshort.pdf

And this guy assembled some book links (not all free):

http://www.macrotex.net/texbooks/

Then decided what kind of document you want to build
and head over to the ctan archives for keyword search
etc.  And just read the documentation for the package
you want to use:

http://www.ctan.org/search.html


There is also a free beginners magazine with articles
online: 

http://www.tug.org/pracjourn/

There is also a LyX frontend that uses LaTeX as an
engine if you want to try a more "visual" approach
first (though .lyx files are in their own separate
format/language).

--- Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 8:49 PM, john-thomas richards
> <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> > I have begun learning LaTeX (typesetting) and
> would like a book or two
> > on it.  The Grand Rapids library system does not
> have any books on LaTeX
> > so I thought I would turn you to ask if any of you
> have any books on
> > LaTeX that you are willing to part with cheap (and
> I mean *cheap*).
> >
> > Anyone?
> 
> Is free cheap enough? (I *think* these are legal...)
> 
>
http://www.freebookcentre.net/SoftwareEng/Free-Tex-Latex-Books-Download.html
> 
> Somewhere, I've got a bookmark for a free book that
> I *know* is legal,
> and is pretty good to boot.  I'll see if I can find
> it when I get
> home.
> 
> -- 
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sun Aug  3 11:48:10 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:48:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
In-Reply-To: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
References: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <1217778490.12401.29.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 20:49 -0400, john-thomas richards wrote:
> I have begun learning LaTeX (typesetting) and would like a book or two
> on it.  The Grand Rapids library system does not have any books on LaTeX
> so I thought I would turn you to ask if any of you have any books on
> LaTeX that you are willing to part with cheap (and I mean *cheap*).
> 
> Anyone?

Best book I've seen to date it an OLD one.

A Guide to LaTeX: Document Preparation for Beginners and Advanced Users
By Helmut Kopka and Patrick W. Daly
Publisher: Addison-Wesley
First Printer: 1993
ISBN10: 0201568896

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0201568896/

Used by many Colleges and Universities used it for just its title
purpose (and I think still today). Its still extremely relevant today,
as Docs I made back then still print today.

I bought 3 of them back in about 1996 as I knew I'd wear through all of
them, which I did. I recently (about 2 years ago) bought a used First
printing but an exceptional condition one from Amazon for like $6. Neat
part is it has an errata printed on a small piece of paper and glued to
the last page of the Index on page 436 (only 5 items)...

There are also suggestions at the link for those that want more. But its
vera-vera-nice for a 15 year old book.

Yes, the entire LaTeX stuff has changed out from underneath itself, but
it is 100% COMPLETELY backwards compatible.

One thing you gotta remember: LaTeX is a programming language for
Typesetting and a damn good one for it. Its not hard, just very capable
and lotsa stuff you can do with it if you include lotsa of the already
made stuff from the past years. Many distributions have nearly an
unbelievable mountain of add-ons. Modern ones are using "texlive" now
and its very very good and mostly bug free, as bug free as the previous
stuff, thanks to regression testing.

Now, don't let it overwhelm you, many people do. Just follow the
guidelines that the "LaTeX book" shows you and it'll be an awesome
start.

Just as an Example, the guy that does: 
	http://blog.cooklikeyourgrandmother.com/

Good friend of mine in Cleveland, Ohio, published his book, he is an
admitted Windows turned Linux guy that struggled with Docs forever with
Word/OpenOffice... etc.

Got him to try to publish his awesome cookbook using LaTeX, with the
book as a guide. Now he keeps the revisions in SVN. That is the other
benefit of using LaTeX, versioning and revisions are SOOO DUMB EASY to
keep track of.

Good luck jtr.

P.S. One last thing, OO.o v2.4 and after can take Word docs and export
them as LaTeX (verson 2e)docs. You'll need to clean them up but with
significantly large (or large sets) of Docs this might be a big plus.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Aug  3 14:07:42 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 14:07:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450808021804n28ba1845i9f200595eaf70b31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
	<f5e00c450808021804n28ba1845i9f200595eaf70b31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080803180742.GA30546@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Aug 02, 2008 at 09:04:21PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 8:49 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> > I have begun learning LaTeX (typesetting) and would like a book or two
> > on it.  The Grand Rapids library system does not have any books on LaTeX
> > so I thought I would turn you to ask if any of you have any books on
> > LaTeX that you are willing to part with cheap (and I mean *cheap*).
> >
> > Anyone?
> 
> Is free cheap enough? (I *think* these are legal...)
> 
> http://www.freebookcentre.net/SoftwareEng/Free-Tex-Latex-Books-Download.html
> 
> Somewhere, I've got a bookmark for a free book that I *know* is legal,
> and is pretty good to boot.  I'll see if I can find it when I get
> home.

Free is indeed cheap enough.  :-)  Thanks.
-- 
john-thomas
------
You can tell the ideals of a nation by its advertisements.
Norman Dougls, novelist (1868-1952)

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Aug  3 14:19:34 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 14:19:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
In-Reply-To: <644047.1867.qm@web80406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <f5e00c450808021804n28ba1845i9f200595eaf70b31@mail.gmail.com>
	<644047.1867.qm@web80406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080803181934.GB30546@jrichards.org>

On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 07:40:15AM -0700, John Harig wrote:
> Yes your best bet is to is to access the many free
> books online like Mr. Mol suggests.  I did a
> presentation on LaTeX at the wmlug a couple months
> ago.  
> 
> I do have the LaTeX Companion Box Set, but since new
> packages are coming all the time, and I think they are
> on LaTeX 3 now, you are better off accessing the
> documentation.  It's nice having a reference book for
> commands, but they really aren't better or offer
> anything more than the free online stuff (but I
> contributed to the project buy buying).

Thank you.  It is convenient to have a book handy, but knowing that
last part is helpful.

[snip]

> There is also a LyX frontend that uses LaTeX as an
> engine if you want to try a more "visual" approach
> first (though .lyx files are in their own separate
> format/language).

I started out with LyX but after finally discovering the difference
between a layout and a document class I realized LyX was in many ways
limiting.  So I jumped right into LaTeX proper, with Kile (Kile is the
*only* reason I have a single KDE library installed on my laptop).  I
am now comfortable enough with LaTeX that I can write a document in
vim, but I want to learn more so I can begin creating more complex
documents this fall.

Thanks.

[snip]
-- 
john-thomas
------
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
Euripides

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Aug  3 14:25:00 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 14:25:00 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] LaTeX books
In-Reply-To: <1217778490.12401.29.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
	<1217778490.12401.29.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <20080803182500.GC30546@jrichards.org>

On Sun, Aug 03, 2008 at 11:48:10AM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:
[snip]

> One thing you gotta remember: LaTeX is a programming language for
> Typesetting and a damn good one for it. Its not hard, just very capable
> and lotsa stuff you can do with it if you include lotsa of the already
> made stuff from the past years. Many distributions have nearly an
> unbelievable mountain of add-ons. Modern ones are using "texlive" now
> and its very very good and mostly bug free, as bug free as the previous
> stuff, thanks to regression testing.
> 
> Now, don't let it overwhelm you, many people do. Just follow the
> guidelines that the "LaTeX book" shows you and it'll be an awesome
> start.

I'm in with LaTeX for the long haul.  I have already forsaken OO.o and
use LaTeX almost exclusively, unless I am just writing random thoughts
or notes for a longer document (in which case I make a plaintext file
with vim).  It's only been a few months or so but I think I am already
to the intermediate stage.  I was even able to copy a university's
document class and modify it (a little) to match (mostly) the
requirements for my master's program.

> Just as an Example, the guy that does: 
> 	http://blog.cooklikeyourgrandmother.com/
> 
> Good friend of mine in Cleveland, Ohio, published his book, he is an
> admitted Windows turned Linux guy that struggled with Docs forever with
> Word/OpenOffice... etc.
> 
> Got him to try to publish his awesome cookbook using LaTeX, with the
> book as a guide. Now he keeps the revisions in SVN. That is the other
> benefit of using LaTeX, versioning and revisions are SOOO DUMB EASY to
> keep track of.
> 
> Good luck jtr.
> 
> P.S. One last thing, OO.o v2.4 and after can take Word docs and export
> them as LaTeX (verson 2e)docs. You'll need to clean them up but with
> significantly large (or large sets) of Docs this might be a big plus.

Fortunately I do not have any Word docs needing to be converted.  :-)
-- 
john-thomas
------
Westheimer's Discovery: A couple of months in the laboratory can save a
couple of hours in the library.
Frank H. Westheimer, chemistry professor (1912- )

From jjfoerch at earthlink.net  Sun Aug  3 20:47:34 2008
From: jjfoerch at earthlink.net (John J Foerch)
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 20:47:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG]  LaTeX books
In-Reply-To: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
References: <20080803004931.GA23460@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <18582.20902.490841.920516@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

john-thomas richards writes:
 > I have begun learning LaTeX (typesetting) and would like a book or two
 > on it.  The Grand Rapids library system does not have any books on LaTeX
 > so I thought I would turn you to ask if any of you have any books on
 > LaTeX that you are willing to part with cheap (and I mean *cheap*).
 > 
 > Anyone?

I found lshort.pdf particularly helpful, and I often return to it for
reference.  The other reference I get a lot of use out of is Hypertext
Help with LaTeX:
http://www-h.eng.cam.ac.uk/help/tpl/textprocessing/teTeX/latex/latex2e-html/ltx-2.html

-- 
John Foerch

From detrix42 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 02:12:29 2008
From: detrix42 at gmail.com (Detrix)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:12:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
Message-ID: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>

Hello everyone. I am fairly new to linux, I have tinkered with it on and 
off for about two years now. I joined this list because I have a 
programming project that I want to use Linux with.  I am trying to find 
volunteers to help me with this project. It is a video game project.  
So, the primary questions is: Is there anyone on this list that would 
like to help, or where do I go (what other online groups are out there) 
to find volunteers?

This is a fairly large project. I would love to find a group of people 
in the Grand Rapids area for this.

Thanks for your time, and I really appreciate the help.

From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 06:57:32 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:57:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
References: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1217847452.4598.18.camel@linux-nnci.site>

On Mon, 2008-08-04 at 02:12 -0400, Detrix wrote:
> Hello everyone. I am fairly new to linux, I have tinkered with it on and 
> off for about two years now. I joined this list because I have a 
> programming project that I want to use Linux with.  I am trying to find 
> volunteers to help me with this project. It is a video game project.  
> So, the primary questions is: Is there anyone on this list that would 
> like to help, 

Sorry, not a game developer, not even interested in games.

> or where do I go (what other online groups are out there) 
> to find volunteers?

Finding developers for a project is really hard.  The best thing you can
do is put the code up, have lots of good comments, and get the project
listed on all the major indexes (like freshmeat.net and Ohloh).  Then
shamelessly shill your project at every possible opportunity.  Don't be
shy, but it is still no excuse to post off-topic in forums.  However, if
you ask a question about the language or library your using, etc... it
is entirely ok to include in the question a description of your project
and why it is absolutely cool.

> This is a fairly large project. I would love to find a group of people 
> in the Grand Rapids area for this.

I wouldn't restrict your pool geographically.  I'd be surprised if there
are more than a dozen *active* Open Source developers in the Grand
Rapids metro area.  Then if you divide those up by interests and
preferred platforms your odds get slim.  (Note that developers *using*
an Open Source tool chain aren't "Open Source developers",  only
developers committing to Open Source projects are "Open Source
developers".)


From josephharnish at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 07:21:44 2008
From: josephharnish at gmail.com (Joseph Harnish)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 07:21:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
References: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bad7536b0808040421h6ea48abcp633832023226cbec@mail.gmail.com>

Well here is my 2 cents:

>From my experience you are going to have problems finding developers
for two reasons.  First being that you have only really tinkered with
Linux that means you probably have contributed to any other projects
and secondly because of your (possible) lack of development support
for other projects, developers would want to see a code base that they
see the potential.   I have been using Linux for 11 years and I have
seen too many projects that have really good goals that don't have
good talented leadership fail to get off the ground.  I am not saying
that you are untalented but without examples of contributions it is
hard to get away from that comparison.

So what you probably want to do first is make some basic decisions.
IE are you going to use an existing framework.  Go out to
Freshmeat.net and look at them.  If you use a framework that is
actively being developed you will get some upstream support.  This
will also help with a more rapid development.  Once you get those
decisions made put some code together that compiles and runs.  It can
be pretty basic but other developers are really going to judge
you/this project based on a compile and run.  When you have this code
create a project on Sourceforge and announce on freshmeat.

Starting on a local level would probably help get it off the ground if
you offered a hackfest at a bar or something.  Where a couple of free
pitchers of beer show up on the table.  :)  I mean it couldn't hurt.

--Joe
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From zach.dennis at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 09:59:13 2008
From: zach.dennis at gmail.com (Zach Dennis)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 09:59:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <1217847452.4598.18.camel@linux-nnci.site>
References: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
	<1217847452.4598.18.camel@linux-nnci.site>
Message-ID: <85d99afe0808040659o2ea860c2q6973fe898d93fc7f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 6:57 AM, Adam Tauno Williams
<adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wouldn't restrict your pool geographically.  I'd be surprised if there
> are more than a dozen *active* Open Source developers in the Grand
> Rapids metro area.  Then if you divide those up by interests and
> preferred platforms your odds get slim.  (Note that developers *using*
> an Open Source tool chain aren't "Open Source developers",  only
> developers committing to Open Source projects are "Open Source
> developers".)
>

I'd imagine a dozen is actually quite low. I know about a dozen and I
think I'm the only one of them who subscribe to this list. Unless only
me and my friends contribute to open source in the area then it's got
to be more,

-- 
Zach Dennis
http://www.continuousthinking.com
http://www.mutuallyhuman.com

From erickson.adam.m at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 11:31:41 2008
From: erickson.adam.m at gmail.com (Adam M. Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:31:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
References: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7cd69fdf0808040831v27c98b5jd68f040c2a8358cc@mail.gmail.com>

>where do I go (what other online groups are out there)
>to find volunteers?

Come to BarCamp on the 12th maybe you could network some more "face-2-face".
More than GRLUG group should be there. From several places besides GR also.

http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3

-- 
Good Luck,

Adam M. Erickson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
-Isaac Newton"

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Mon Aug  4 11:38:20 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 11:38:20 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
References: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0808040838x70e2ef7sf323ffad927038ec@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Dextrix,

You just found Game Developer, I am Game Developer and I have
experience of game server

Chad
Professor Inuyasha
www.ufaclan.net

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:12 AM, Detrix <detrix42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone. I am fairly new to linux, I have tinkered with it on and
> off for about two years now. I joined this list because I have a
> programming project that I want to use Linux with.  I am trying to find
> volunteers to help me with this project. It is a video game project.
> So, the primary questions is: Is there anyone on this list that would
> like to help, or where do I go (what other online groups are out there)
> to find volunteers?
>
> This is a fairly large project. I would love to find a group of people
> in the Grand Rapids area for this.
>
> Thanks for your time, and I really appreciate the help.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



--
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From rh90p at comcast.net  Mon Aug  4 22:34:39 2008
From: rh90p at comcast.net (rh90p at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2008 02:34:39 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
Message-ID: <080520080234.6132.4897BC3F0005BC86000017F42207024553CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>

BarCamp is on the 12th?  The dweeb site says the 15th and 16th.  Is there a secret pregame?

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Adam M. Erickson" <erickson.adam.m at gmail.com>
> >where do I go (what other online groups are out there)
> >to find volunteers?
> 
> Come to BarCamp on the 12th maybe you could network some more "face-2-face".
> More than GRLUG group should be there. From several places besides GR also.
> 
> http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3
> 
> -- 
> Good Luck,
> 
> Adam M. Erickson
> "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
> -Isaac Newton"
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From nicholas at iserv.net  Tue Aug  5 09:22:17 2008
From: nicholas at iserv.net (Mike Nicholas / The Personal Connection)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:22:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
Message-ID: <33155.75.41.10.98.1217942537.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>

I think there is a BarCamp in Chicago on those dates:

"BARcamp Chicago 2008 is coming up in a week and a half!  The weekend
of Aug 15th at 1240 W. Harrison St (UIC area)."

Mike


On Mon, August 4, 2008 10:34 pm, rh90p at comcast.net wrote:
> BarCamp is on the 12th?  The dweeb site says the 15th and 16th.  Is there
> a secret pregame?
>
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Adam M. Erickson" <erickson.adam.m at gmail.com>
>> >where do I go (what other online groups are out there)
>> >to find volunteers?
>>
>> Come to BarCamp on the 12th maybe you could network some more
>> "face-2-face".
>> More than GRLUG group should be there. From several places besides GR
>> also.
>>
>> http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3
>>
>> --
>> Good Luck,
>>
>> Adam M. Erickson
>> "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
>> -Isaac Newton"
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>



From erickson.adam.m at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 12:00:11 2008
From: erickson.adam.m at gmail.com (Adam M. Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:00:11 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <33155.75.41.10.98.1217942537.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
References: <33155.75.41.10.98.1217942537.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
Message-ID: <7cd69fdf0808050900j231fd09fj99f5d0e64a4f24b8@mail.gmail.com>

>BarCamp is on the 12th?

Just a misprint thank you for pointing it out. 15 & 16 Aug 2008,
information including schedule, registration, who has registered and
directions are here.
http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3

>The dweeb site says the 15th and 16th.

Dweeb... slang : an unattractive, insignificant, or inept person
I didn't find the site inept or insignificant just your standard
Mediawiki site. Does dweeb mean something else?


-- 
Regards,

Adam M. Erickson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
-Isaac Newton"

From phillip at phtconsulting.com  Tue Aug  5 14:05:57 2008
From: phillip at phtconsulting.com (Phillip Hebenstreit)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 14:05:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
Message-ID: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email
services?  I believe GRCC is using google for their email server.  I'd
especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at
GRCC or other place using google for email.


Thanks,

phill
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From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  5 20:52:53 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:52:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670807311309y4bc439dbrbe85a838d3522302@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <278442.53745.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I saw it before I left on my trip, but my bus was
taken hostage in Colombia between Santa Marta and
Barranquilla by 5 armed banditos. I got nice pics from
the trip, but I didn't get any of the whole hostage
thing. I was afraid they might take my camera if I
started taking pics of them shooting at the driver.

I'm still catching up on my grlug mailing stuff now.

I could maybe talk about a cool video slideshow app
for 
linux and show pics from this trip :).  My laptop died
though but im exepecting another one off of ebay in a
couple days. . . 

--- Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

> Hey GRLUG,
> 
> It seems that everyone missed my post for the joint
> GRLUG/GR-JUG
> meeting on the 17th of this month as Adam and I were
> the only GRLUG
> members to represent.
> 
> We did a CUPS presentation a few months back which I
> recorded with the
> intentions of posting on the site. My Video camera
> has since broken so
> I have NO way to upload from DV are there any
> members that could
> import the DV's I have and get posted to the site?
> 
> On August 15th and 16th is BarCamp 3 @ Calvin and I
> would like to ask
> for GRLUG members to attend and present on what they
> know.
> 
> I was thinking that Joe could do his CUPS
> presentation, Steve could
> talk about NOMachine, etc. Who's IN???
> 
> Please register @ www.barcampgr.org
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Casey
> 
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Bill Pribble
> <Bill.Pribble at haworth.com> wrote:
> > I would be interested in learning more in managing
> printing from different platforms Unix (various
> vendors) and Linux (and if possible, Windows) using
> CUPS
> >
> > Thanks
> > Bill Pribble
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org on behalf of Michael
> Mol
> > Sent: Thu 7/31/2008 3:03 PM
> > To: grlug at grlug.org
> > Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
> >
> >
> >
> > It's been a while since we've had a meeting.  If
> we were to have one
> > in the next couple months, what are the topics
> that would interest
> > people, either in the context of personal projects
> or professional?
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Casey DuBois
> 616-808-6942
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 


From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Tue Aug  5 22:10:12 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 22:10:12 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0808051910j46852236j4d137ebf49c45506@mail.gmail.com>

Philip, please turn format off

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Phillip Hebenstreit
<phillip at phtconsulting.com> wrote:
>
> <div dir="ltr"><div>Hello everyone,</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email services?&nbsp; I believe GRCC is using google for their email server.&nbsp; I&#39;d especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at GRCC or other place using google for email.</div>
>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>Thanks,</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>phill</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div></div>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



--
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From detrix42 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 02:50:43 2008
From: detrix42 at gmail.com (Detrix)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:50:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <7cd69fdf0808040831v27c98b5jd68f040c2a8358cc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48969DCD.1000201@gmail.com>
	<7cd69fdf0808040831v27c98b5jd68f040c2a8358cc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <489949C3.7070604@gmail.com>

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From blubdog at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 08:32:29 2008
From: blubdog at gmail.com (Bruce Smith)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 08:32:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b52f2d360808060532x251f1epc55e27000b458b08@mail.gmail.com>

> Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email services? I believe GRCC is using google for their email server. I'd especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at GRCC or other place using google for email.

We use the free edition of Google-apps at work (about 300 user
accounts) for our domain's email.  I've also setup a half-dozen small
businesses to use Google-apps for email and web hosting.

I'm only familiar with the "standard" (free) edition of google apps.
I'm not familiar with the extra features you get with the enterprise
(paid) edition.

And I work in the IT side of things.  What would you like to know?

 - BS

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Aug  6 12:15:04 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:15:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 14:05 -0400, Phillip Hebenstreit wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email
> services?  I believe GRCC is using google for their email server.  I'd
> especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at
> GRCC or other place using google for email.

Company I work for switched from
qmail/courier/spamassassin/squirellmail/etc to using Google Apps and
Google Mail... using our own domain name and so on.

It relatively easy to setup and get working. My only problem is they
don't really support "evolution" very well yet.

Other than that, my only gripe is: why didn't we do it earlier.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From dave at uvbackups.com  Wed Aug  6 11:28:57 2008
From: dave at uvbackups.com (David Szostek)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 11:28:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] jsp
In-Reply-To: <mailman.956.1213781237.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.956.1213781237.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <2D750AA149D8420786E713EEA83D0BE1@dave>

Hi,

Does anyone on here work with JSP? We have a relatively simple change we
need to make but don't have the knowledge to do so? If anyone would be
interested in working on a short mod for an e-mail archiving program, please
e-mail me at dave at uvbackups.com

Thanks!
~dave


From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 12:36:03 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:36:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] jsp
In-Reply-To: <2D750AA149D8420786E713EEA83D0BE1@dave>
References: <mailman.956.1213781237.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<2D750AA149D8420786E713EEA83D0BE1@dave>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930808060936t65e76912k7352c3c9a9849f84@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:28 AM, David Szostek <dave at uvbackups.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone on here work with JSP? We have a relatively simple change we
> need to make but don't have the knowledge to do so? If anyone would be
> interested in working on a short mod for an e-mail archiving program,
> please
> e-mail me at dave at uvbackups.com
>
> Thanks!
> ~dave


You should find even more help on the Grand Rapids Java User's Group:
http://gr-jug.org/
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Aug  6 12:49:34 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:49:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <278442.53745.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <278442.53745.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1218041374.3267.16.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 17:52 -0700, John Harig wrote:
> I saw it before I left on my trip, but my bus was
> taken hostage in Colombia between Santa Marta and
> Barranquilla by 5 armed banditos. I got nice pics from
> the trip, but I didn't get any of the whole hostage
> thing. I was afraid they might take my camera if I
> started taking pics of them shooting at the driver.

You are kidding, right? If not:

	D3wD Th4T 1Z teh sukc!

> I'm still catching up on my grlug mailing stuff now.
> 
> I could maybe talk about a cool video slideshow app
> for 
> linux and show pics from this trip :).  My laptop died
> though but im exepecting another one off of ebay in a
> couple days. . . 

That is "teh sukc" as well.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Aug  6 12:51:49 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:51:49 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] jsp
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930808060936t65e76912k7352c3c9a9849f84@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.956.1213781237.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<2D750AA149D8420786E713EEA83D0BE1@dave>
	<d92a2d930808060936t65e76912k7352c3c9a9849f84@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1218041509.3267.18.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 12:36 -0400, Ben Rousch wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 11:28 AM, David Szostek <dave at uvbackups.com>
> wrote:
>         Hi,
>         
>         Does anyone on here work with JSP? We have a relatively simple
>         change we need to make but don't have the knowledge to do so?
>         If anyone would be interested in working on a short mod for an
>         e-mail archiving program, please e-mail me at
>         dave at uvbackups.com
>         
>         Thanks!
>         ~dave
> 
> You should find even more help on the Grand Rapids Java User's Group:
> http://gr-jug.org/ 

Wow, you don't want to know what I thought that link said.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From blubdog at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 13:02:23 2008
From: blubdog at gmail.com (Bruce Smith)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:02:23 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <b52f2d360808061002q10f626a8gfe49b1064b90e2c7@mail.gmail.com>

>> Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email
>> services?  I believe GRCC is using google for their email server.  I'd
>> especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at
>> GRCC or other place using google for email.
>
> Company I work for switched from
> qmail/courier/spamassassin/squirellmail/etc to using Google Apps and
> Google Mail... using our own domain name and so on.

Yes, we did something similar at work.
(sendmail/Cyrus-Imap/squirrelmail/Postini to google-apps)

> It relatively easy to setup and get working. My only problem is they
> don't really support "evolution" very well yet.

What problem are you having with Evolution?  We have a couple people
using Evolution without any problems (that I know of).  I personally
prefer the gmail-apps web interface to any client, but that's personal
preference.

Are you using IMAP or POP3 w/Evolution?

Google doesn't support the entire IMAP protocol.  i.e.  They don't do
nested folders.  Is that the problem you're having?

> Other than that, my only gripe is: why didn't we do it earlier.

It took me forever to convince my company to switch to google-apps.
Overall it's been a good experience, with very few problems.

 - BS

From dond at standalelumber.com  Wed Aug  6 13:16:19 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:16:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>	
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>




On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 12:15 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 14:05 -0400, Phillip Hebenstreit wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> > 
> > Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email
> > services?  I believe GRCC is using google for their email server.  I'd
> > especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at
> > GRCC or other place using google for email.
> 
> Company I work for switched from
> qmail/courier/spamassassin/squirellmail/etc to using Google Apps and
> Google Mail... using our own domain name and so on.
> 
> It relatively easy to setup and get working. My only problem is they
> don't really support "evolution" very well yet.
> 
> Other than that, my only gripe is: why didn't we do it earlier.
> _______________________________________________


I host our own email server here at work and it's a royal PITA dealing
with spamassassin when users can't get or send email to customers or
vendors.
What do you mean by they don't support evolution that well? What
problems might one encounter with it? And I'm definitely intrigued by it
if it garners Greg's approval. Sorry Greg, I sorta use you for a
sounding board. =)
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From rick at vargo.org  Wed Aug  6 14:26:26 2008
From: rick at vargo.org (Rick Vargo)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:26:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>	
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
Message-ID: <DE592594-863B-43FA-A938-CCA6D6949826@vargo.org>

The only real downside to hosting your services with Google is that it  
gives them access to you and your company's info as it flows through  
their systems... You definitely would want to avoid it if you are  
working with patients, secret company proprietary info, and the like.

Rick

On Aug 6, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Don Wood wrote:

>
>
>
> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 12:15 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 14:05 -0400, Phillip Hebenstreit wrote:
>> > Hello everyone,
>> >
>> > Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google  
>> enterprise for email
>> > services?  I believe GRCC is using google for their email  
>> server.  I'd
>> > especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side  
>> of things at
>> > GRCC or other place using google for email.
>>
>> Company I work for switched from
>> qmail/courier/spamassassin/squirellmail/etc to using Google Apps and
>> Google Mail... using our own domain name and so on.
>>
>> It relatively easy to setup and get working. My only problem is they
>> don't really support "evolution" very well yet.
>>
>> Other than that, my only gripe is: why didn't we do it earlier.
>> _______________________________________________
>
> I host our own email server here at work and it's a royal PITA  
> dealing with spamassassin when users can't get or send email to  
> customers or vendors.
> What do you mean by they don't support evolution that well? What  
> problems might one encounter with it? And I'm definitely intrigued  
> by it if it garners Greg's approval. Sorry Greg, I sorta use you for  
> a sounding board. =)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From erickson.adam.m at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 14:27:19 2008
From: erickson.adam.m at gmail.com (Adam M. Erickson)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:27:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
Message-ID: <7cd69fdf0808061127x1c5f88b6nb7b1523f9f225a66@mail.gmail.com>

>Sorry Greg, I sorta use you for a sounding board. =)

I second that. Greg and a few others here.

Although, I will have to do some personal investigation to see how it
will work for my company.
-- 
Regards,

Adam M. Erickson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
-Isaac Newton"

From grlug at tankrip.com  Wed Aug  6 14:33:32 2008
From: grlug at tankrip.com (Colin Vallance)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:33:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <7cd69fdf0808061127x1c5f88b6nb7b1523f9f225a66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
	<7cd69fdf0808061127x1c5f88b6nb7b1523f9f225a66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E8C83E4-9DFA-4C0E-9D9C-602B40821312@tankrip.com>

I've decided to try testing with my "throw-away" domain gnub.com.   
Like all the rest, I'm sick of dealing with SA/exim on my dedicated  
server.  Even worse is that we've got plesk on there so the SA install  
is hacked up a bit.  If I notice anything neat/crappy I'll be sure to  
post.


On Aug 6, 2008, at 2:27 PM, Adam M. Erickson wrote:

>> Sorry Greg, I sorta use you for a sounding board. =)
>
> I second that. Greg and a few others here.
>
> Although, I will have to do some personal investigation to see how it
> will work for my company.
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Adam M. Erickson
> "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
> -Isaac Newton"
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 15:03:41 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 15:03:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
Message-ID: <1218049421.8656.33.camel@linux-nnci.site>

> I host our own email server here at work and it's a royal PITA dealing
> with spamassassin when users can't get or send email to customers or
> vendors.

Then just don't.  Your getting basically zero win for the effort of
installing and hosting spamassassin (it is a huge solution in search of
a problem).   We host our own e-mail, and have not intentions of
out-sourcing,  but we just use basic RBLs and greylisting and the level
of SPAM is extremely low.  People mke the problem of SPAM much too
complicated.

> What do you mean by they don't support evolution that well? 

My only problems using my personal G-Mail account is that (a) folder's
don't work worth a hoot and (b) the service is intermittently
unavailable.

> What problems might one encounter with it? And I'm definitely intrigued by it if it garners Greg's approval. Sorry Greg, I sorta use you for a sounding board. =) 



From jtr at jrichards.org  Wed Aug  6 15:11:59 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:11:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <7cd69fdf0808061127x1c5f88b6nb7b1523f9f225a66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
	<7cd69fdf0808061127x1c5f88b6nb7b1523f9f225a66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080806191159.GA1011@jrichards.org>

On Wed, Aug 06, 2008 at 02:27:19PM -0400, Adam M. Erickson wrote:
> >Sorry Greg, I sorta use you for a sounding board. =)
> 
> I second that. Greg and a few others here.

No kidding.  Anyone who includes Debian's *Experimental* repository in
/etc/apt/sources.list is either a fool or far more knowledgeable than I.

http://www.gregfolkert.net/files/sources.list

I've spoken to Greg a couple times in person.  It's definitely the
latter.
-- 
john-thomas
------
There is no kind of dishonesty into which otherwise good people more easily
and frequently fall than that of defrauding the government.
Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)

From ben at eavey.com  Wed Aug  6 16:28:56 2008
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 16:28:56 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <b52f2d360808061002q10f626a8gfe49b1064b90e2c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<b52f2d360808061002q10f626a8gfe49b1064b90e2c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <489A0988.4080109@eavey.com>

> Google doesn't support the entire IMAP protocol.  i.e.  They don't do
> nested folders.  Is that the problem you're having?

They don't?  I have nested IMAP folders using Google Apps for my domain, 
and it works swimmingly...

-Ben

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Aug  6 18:05:45 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:05:45 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <b52f2d360808061002q10f626a8gfe49b1064b90e2c7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<b52f2d360808061002q10f626a8gfe49b1064b90e2c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1218060345.3267.26.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:02 -0400, Bruce Smith wrote:
> >> Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email
> >> services?  I believe GRCC is using google for their email server.  I'd
> >> especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at
> >> GRCC or other place using google for email.
> >
> > Company I work for switched from
> > qmail/courier/spamassassin/squirellmail/etc to using Google Apps and
> > Google Mail... using our own domain name and so on.
> 
> Yes, we did something similar at work.
> (sendmail/Cyrus-Imap/squirrelmail/Postini to google-apps)
> 
> > It relatively easy to setup and get working. My only problem is they
> > don't really support "evolution" very well yet.
> 
> What problem are you having with Evolution?  We have a couple people
> using Evolution without any problems (that I know of).  I personally
> prefer the gmail-apps web interface to any client, but that's personal
> preference.
> 
> Are you using IMAP or POP3 w/Evolution?

IMAP, sometimes evolution gets "stuck", of course I have 180K messages.
All-Mail was causing much of the issue. Unsubscribe is finally possible
so Evolution doesn't baulk. Other than that.

> Google doesn't support the entire IMAP protocol.  i.e.  They don't do
> nested folders.  Is that the problem you're having?

Actually they do support nested folders. I have about 40 or so.

> > Other than that, my only gripe is: why didn't we do it earlier.
> 
> It took me forever to convince my company to switch to google-apps.
> Overall it's been a good experience, with very few problems.

-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
-------------- next part --------------
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From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Wed Aug  6 18:24:55 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:24:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <1218041374.3267.16.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <20084.49952.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

nope not kidding, but i wish the embassy would hurry
up with my official letter.  its like saying i
survived a shark attack without a scar to prove it . .
.

--- Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 17:52 -0700, John Harig wrote:
> > I saw it before I left on my trip, but my bus was
> > taken hostage in Colombia between Santa Marta and
> > Barranquilla by 5 armed banditos. I got nice pics
> from
> > the trip, but I didn't get any of the whole
> hostage
> > thing. I was afraid they might take my camera if I
> > started taking pics of them shooting at the
> driver.
> 
> You are kidding, right? If not:
> 
> 	D3wD Th4T 1Z teh sukc!
> 
> > I'm still catching up on my grlug mailing stuff
> now.
> > 
> > I could maybe talk about a cool video slideshow
> app
> > for 
> > linux and show pics from this trip :).  My laptop
> died
> > though but im exepecting another one off of ebay
> in a
> > couple days. . . 
> 
> That is "teh sukc" as well.
> -- 
> greg at gregfolkert.net
> PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
> Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66
> 6971 B524 687C
> Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841
> 56C5 6356 88C0
> Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F
> 9505 2B79 2AB2
> > _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Aug  6 19:02:07 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:02:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] google enterprise for email
In-Reply-To: <1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
References: <d9ee72200808051105o3ad364bbr3a87610b3444f703@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218039304.3267.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<1218042980.6895.25.camel@donw-laptop>
Message-ID: <1218063727.3267.35.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:16 -0400, Don Wood wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 12:15 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: 
> > On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 14:05 -0400, Phillip Hebenstreit wrote:
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > 
> > > Does anyone have 1st hand knowledge of using the google enterprise for email
> > > services?  I believe GRCC is using google for their email server.  I'd
> > > especially be interested in hearing from someone on the IT side of things at
> > > GRCC or other place using google for email.
> > 
> > Company I work for switched from
> > qmail/courier/spamassassin/squirellmail/etc to using Google Apps and
> > Google Mail... using our own domain name and so on.
> > 
> > It relatively easy to setup and get working. My only problem is they
> > don't really support "evolution" very well yet.
> > 
> > Other than that, my only gripe is: why didn't we do it earlier.
> > _______________________________________________
> 
> I host our own email server here at work and it's a royal PITA dealing
> with spamassassin when users can't get or send email to customers or
> vendors.
> What do you mean by they don't support evolution that well? What
> problems might one encounter with it? And I'm definitely intrigued by
> it if it garners Greg's approval. Sorry Greg, I sorta use you for a
> sounding board. =) 

When I say they don't support Evolution, that really means, if you call
for support with a problem with evolution... that means they won't
support you.

They Support T-Bird (IceDove in my case) and other "popular" Open Source
and Proprietary Mail Clients.

Calendar works well, integrates with Evo, Pidgin and googletalk and
evolution all line up well now. Contacts are shared from Evolution.

Of course, I run Debian SID (plus experimental as you guys just saw) and
recently things have been coming together very well. The Freeze for
Lenny has had some nice effects.

Over all, my only real concern is sometimes, the service is a bit
slow... and there are times that my client is serviced out of a google
domain such as googlemail.co.za when things are crunchy here is the US.

Haven't lost a message yet.

One improvement would be "rules ordering" or being able to set execution
priority for "filters" filters as they call them.

The rules can only be made/changed from the Web-interface ATM. But
overall they do a nice job for me.

Google Apps is nearly perfect for what we want, mail still lags a bit,
but is coming along nicely.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From rh90p at comcast.net  Thu Aug  7 13:22:09 2008
From: rh90p at comcast.net (rh90p at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:22:09 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
Message-ID: <080720081722.7342.489B2F41000DF75C00001CAE2200762194CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>

XMPP is a very good answer.  I have used Jabber but wasn't aware of XMPP - I'll have to look into that.  Are there regional or global servers or can I host that on a server off my own laptop?  I used Jabber with another group I was in and the connections were brokered through their server.
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Adam Tauno Williams <adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com> 

> On Fri, 2008-08-01 at 11:24 -0400, Michael Mol wrote: 
> > On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:51 AM, wrote: 
> > > I have a strong interest in Agile Software development and therefore I would 
> like to learn how to be able to collaborate across the net. My laptop has a 
> built in camera, and if it didn't there are those little USB things, and ports 
> to plug in a head set so I would like to stream audio and video and share my 
> desktop with a specific individual so that we could 'pair' program. 
> > VNC and voice chat is probably more appropriate; IME, when you're team 
> > coding, you're looking at code, not each other. 
> 
> All the collaborative coding I've done has been using XMPP; most other 
> tools end up being more in the way than they help. I've used Ekiga a 
> few times, but always found that coding while someone is talking at you 
> isn't very comfortable/productive. 
> 
> The only thing I've ever missed is some kind of whiteboard and the 
> ability to automatically log my chat logs into the project repository or 
> related groupware server. 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> grlug mailing list 
> grlug at grlug.org 
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug 
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From rh90p at comcast.net  Thu Aug  7 13:35:21 2008
From: rh90p at comcast.net (rh90p at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:35:21 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
Message-ID: <080720081735.1534.489B32590003C98B000005FE2207021053CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>

Assuming that I was trying to make a point, which I wasn't, you just made it for me.  There are couple of very touchy and argumentative folks on this list, hence Dweeb.  Take that recent top-post vs bottom post flame war.  Chill a little.

P.S. I usually try to bottom post when replying to bottom-posted messages and visa versa (but I prefer top post) but this mailer just doesn't want to allow me to bottom post (its web based).  It's not my fault.  Chill on that also.

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Adam M. Erickson" <erickson.adam.m at gmail.com> 

> >BarCamp is on the 12th? 
> 
> Just a misprint thank you for pointing it out. 15 & 16 Aug 2008, 
> information including schedule, registration, who has registered and 
> directions are here. 
> http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3 
> 
> >The dweeb site says the 15th and 16th. 
> 
> Dweeb... slang : an unattractive, insignificant, or inept person 
> I didn't find the site inept or insignificant just your standard 
> Mediawiki site. Does dweeb mean something else? 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards, 
> 
> Adam M. Erickson 
> "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. 
> -Isaac Newton" 
> _______________________________________________ 
> grlug mailing list 
> grlug at grlug.org 
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug 
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From rh90p at comcast.net  Thu Aug  7 13:48:11 2008
From: rh90p at comcast.net (rh90p at comcast.net)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:48:11 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
Message-ID: <080720081748.18314.489B355B000174340000478A2207021053CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>

Was that for fun or for profit?

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: John Harig <radiodurans at yahoo.com> 

> nope not kidding, but i wish the embassy would hurry 
> up with my official letter. its like saying i 
> survived a shark attack without a scar to prove it . . 
> . 
> 
> --- Greg Folkert wrote: 
> 
> > On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 17:52 -0700, John Harig wrote: 
> > > I saw it before I left on my trip, but my bus was 
> > > taken hostage in Colombia between Santa Marta and 
> > > Barranquilla by 5 armed banditos. I got nice pics 
> > from 
> > > the trip, but I didn't get any of the whole 
> > hostage 
> > > thing. I was afraid they might take my camera if I 
> > > started taking pics of them shooting at the 
> > driver. 
> > 
> > You are kidding, right? If not: 
> > 
> > D3wD Th4T 1Z teh sukc! 
> > 
> > > I'm still catching up on my grlug mailing stuff 
> > now. 
> > > 
> > > I could maybe talk about a cool video slideshow 
> > app 
> > > for 
> > > linux and show pics from this trip :). My laptop 
> > died 
> > > though but im exepecting another one off of ebay 
> > in a 
> > > couple days. . . 
> > 
> > That is "teh sukc" as well. 
> > -- 
> > greg at gregfolkert.net 
> > PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 
> > Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 
> > 6971 B524 687C 
> > Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 
> > 56C5 6356 88C0 
> > Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 
> > 9505 2B79 2AB2 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > grlug mailing list 
> > grlug at grlug.org 
> > 
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> grlug mailing list 
> grlug at grlug.org 
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug 
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From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Thu Aug  7 14:11:11 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:11:11 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <080720081722.7342.489B2F41000DF75C00001CAE2200762194CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
References: <080720081722.7342.489B2F41000DF75C00001CAE2200762194CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1218132671.4556.5.camel@linux-nnci.site>

On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 17:22 +0000, rh90p at comcast.net wrote:
> XMPP is a very good answer.  I have used Jabber but wasn't aware of
> XMPP - I'll have to look into that. 

Jabber is XMPP;  or XMPP is the Jabber protocol.

> Are there regional or global servers or can I host that on a server
> off my own laptop? 

Many, including Google.  There are also many very nice Open Source or
free XMPP servers (there are, of course, also some real stinkers).

> I used Jabber with another group I was in and the connections were
> brokered through their server.

If you want to run your own server OpenFire
<http://www.igniterealtime.org/projects/openfire/index.jsp> is very
complete and ridiculously easy to setup & manage.  We've used if for our
in-house IM for years <http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com/node/96>


From ajabma at chartermi.net  Thu Aug  7 13:55:46 2008
From: ajabma at chartermi.net (Alan J Abma)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:55:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <080720081735.1534.489B32590003C98B000005FE2207021053CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
References: <080720081735.1534.489B32590003C98B000005FE2207021053CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <200808071355.47009.ajabma@chartermi.net>


Top Posters Unite against the tyranny of those Bottom Posters!
Once the world is won for Top Posters we can begin fight to ensure that all 
toilet paper rolls are correctly placed, top over, on their rollers!
Join with me on this Glorious crusade! 


On Thursday 07 August 2008 1:35 pm, rh90p at comcast.net wrote:
> Assuming that I was trying to make a point, which I wasn't, you just made
> it for me.  There are couple of very touchy and argumentative folks on this
> list, hence Dweeb.  Take that recent top-post vs bottom post flame war. 
> Chill a little.
>
> P.S. I usually try to bottom post when replying to bottom-posted messages
> and visa versa (but I prefer top post) but this mailer just doesn't want to
> allow me to bottom post (its web based).  It's not my fault.  Chill on that
> also.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Adam M. Erickson" <erickson.adam.m at gmail.com>
>
> > >BarCamp is on the 12th?
> >
> > Just a misprint thank you for pointing it out. 15 & 16 Aug 2008,
> > information including schedule, registration, who has registered and
> > directions are here.
> > http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3
> >
> > >The dweeb site says the 15th and 16th.
> >
> > Dweeb... slang : an unattractive, insignificant, or inept person
> > I didn't find the site inept or insignificant just your standard
> > Mediawiki site. Does dweeb mean something else?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Adam M. Erickson
> > "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
> > -Isaac Newton"
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From dond at standalelumber.com  Thu Aug  7 14:26:00 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:26:00 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
In-Reply-To: <200808071355.47009.ajabma@chartermi.net>
References: <080720081735.1534.489B32590003C98B000005FE2207021053CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
	<200808071355.47009.ajabma@chartermi.net>
Message-ID: <1218133560.7108.11.camel@donw-laptop>




On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 13:55 -0400, Alan J Abma wrote:

> Top Posters Unite against the tyranny of those Bottom Posters!
> Once the world is won for Top Posters we can begin fight to ensure that all 
> toilet paper rolls are correctly placed, top over, on their rollers!
> Join with me on this Glorious crusade! 
> 
> 
> On Thursday 07 August 2008 1:35 pm, rh90p at comcast.net wrote:
> > Assuming that I was trying to make a point, which I wasn't, you just made
> > it for me.  There are couple of very touchy and argumentative folks on this
> > list, hence Dweeb.  Take that recent top-post vs bottom post flame war. 
> > Chill a little.
> >
> > P.S. I usually try to bottom post when replying to bottom-posted messages
> > and visa versa (but I prefer top post) but this mailer just doesn't want to
> > allow me to bottom post (its web based).  It's not my fault.  Chill on that
> > also.
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Adam M. Erickson" <erickson.adam.m at gmail.com>
> >
> > > >BarCamp is on the 12th?
> > >
> > > Just a misprint thank you for pointing it out. 15 & 16 Aug 2008,
> > > information including schedule, registration, who has registered and
> > > directions are here.
> > > http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3
> > >
> > > >The dweeb site says the 15th and 16th.
> > >
> > > Dweeb... slang : an unattractive, insignificant, or inept person
> > > I didn't find the site inept or insignificant just your standard
> > > Mediawiki site. Does dweeb mean something else?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Adam M. Erickson
> > > "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
> > > -Isaac Newton"
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


Now that's funny!

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From rh90p at comcast.net  Fri Aug  8 01:06:53 2008
From: rh90p at comcast.net (rh90p at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:06:53 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] First timer on this list
Message-ID: <080820080506.27574.489BD46C000ED2C200006BB62200763692CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>

I like those new sideways rollers where over or under has no meaning.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Alan J Abma <ajabma at chartermi.net>
> 
> Top Posters Unite against the tyranny of those Bottom Posters!
> Once the world is won for Top Posters we can begin fight to ensure that all 
> toilet paper rolls are correctly placed, top over, on their rollers!
> Join with me on this Glorious crusade! 
> 
> 
> On Thursday 07 August 2008 1:35 pm, rh90p at comcast.net wrote:
> > Assuming that I was trying to make a point, which I wasn't, you just made
> > it for me.  There are couple of very touchy and argumentative folks on this
> > list, hence Dweeb.  Take that recent top-post vs bottom post flame war. 
> > Chill a little.
> >
> > P.S. I usually try to bottom post when replying to bottom-posted messages
> > and visa versa (but I prefer top post) but this mailer just doesn't want to
> > allow me to bottom post (its web based).  It's not my fault.  Chill on that
> > also.
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Adam M. Erickson" <erickson.adam.m at gmail.com>
> >
> > > >BarCamp is on the 12th?
> > >
> > > Just a misprint thank you for pointing it out. 15 & 16 Aug 2008,
> > > information including schedule, registration, who has registered and
> > > directions are here.
> > > http://barcampgr.org/wiki/BarCampGrandRapids3
> > >
> > > >The dweeb site says the 15th and 16th.
> > >
> > > Dweeb... slang : an unattractive, insignificant, or inept person
> > > I didn't find the site inept or insignificant just your standard
> > > Mediawiki site. Does dweeb mean something else?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Adam M. Erickson
> > > "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
> > > -Isaac Newton"
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  8 23:30:58 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 20:30:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG meeting topic discussion
In-Reply-To: <080720081748.18314.489B355B000174340000478A2207021053CECACDCA059C@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <838254.79035.qm@web80406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For the profit of fun.  


--- rh90p at comcast.net wrote:

> Was that for fun or for profit?
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: John Harig <radiodurans at yahoo.com> 
> 
> > nope not kidding, but i wish the embassy would
> hurry 
> > up with my official letter. its like saying i 
> > survived a shark attack without a scar to prove it
> . . 
> > . 
> > 
> > --- Greg Folkert wrote: 
> > 
> > > On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 17:52 -0700, John Harig
> wrote: 
> > > > I saw it before I left on my trip, but my bus
> was 
> > > > taken hostage in Colombia between Santa Marta
> and 
> > > > Barranquilla by 5 armed banditos. I got nice
> pics 
> > > from 
> > > > the trip, but I didn't get any of the whole 
> > > hostage 
> > > > thing. I was afraid they might take my camera
> if I 
> > > > started taking pics of them shooting at the 
> > > driver. 
> > > 
> > > You are kidding, right? If not: 
> > > 
> > > D3wD Th4T 1Z teh sukc! 
> > > 
> > > > I'm still catching up on my grlug mailing
> stuff 
> > > now. 
> > > > 
> > > > I could maybe talk about a cool video
> slideshow 
> > > app 
> > > > for 
> > > > linux and show pics from this trip :). My
> laptop 
> > > died 
> > > > though but im exepecting another one off of
> ebay 
> > > in a 
> > > > couple days. . . 
> > > 
> > > That is "teh sukc" as well. 
> > > -- 
> > > greg at gregfolkert.net 
> > > PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 
> > > Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 
> > > 6971 B524 687C 
> > > Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 
> > > 56C5 6356 88C0 
> > > Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 
> > > 9505 2B79 2AB2 
> > > >
> _______________________________________________ 
> > > grlug mailing list 
> > > grlug at grlug.org 
> > > 
> >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > grlug mailing list 
> > grlug at grlug.org 
> >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Aug  9 10:09:10 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 10:09:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
Message-ID: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>

This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here: 
http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.

Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
sales reps knock on my door about it.
-- 
john-thomas
------
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Voltaire (1694-1778)

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 10:32:13 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 10:32:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0808090732i550a58bcj13179f0cb8807c28@mail.gmail.com>

happen to me before, and I quitted comcast

Comcast = $ RIP OFF + UNLIMITED SPEED + MORE LAG
AT&T = SMART $ + PERFECT SPEED + LESS LAG

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:09 AM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
> http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
>
> Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> sales reps knock on my door about it.
> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
> Voltaire (1694-1778)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From networkman at triton.net  Sat Aug  9 10:35:01 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 10:35:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <6BBEA097026B40B9A198202D9E100D65@kdl.net>

Since I have AT&T's 6mb DSL, I can't comment on what Comcast may be 
currently doing.  But I too have been getting a bunch of advertising about 
AT&Ts "U-Verse" but it's still not available in my area. :(

As for Comcast, I had them years ago, but had to ditch it, because latency 
was such a problem.  Web-surfing and downloads may be fine with a latency of 
300 to 500 ms, but trying to VPN into the office for on-call support is not!

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john-thomas richards" <jtr at jrichards.org>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?


> This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
> http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
>
> Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> sales reps knock on my door about it.
> -- 
> john-thomas
> ------
> It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
> Voltaire (1694-1778)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> 


From kylewesleysmith at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 11:10:58 2008
From: kylewesleysmith at gmail.com (Kyle Smith)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 11:10:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <6BBEA097026B40B9A198202D9E100D65@kdl.net>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<6BBEA097026B40B9A198202D9E100D65@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <cbf6ef320808090810y10069cb6w1ee6623f428d10c9@mail.gmail.com>

I've been getting faster than usual speeds lately.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/306960713.png

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> Since I have AT&T's 6mb DSL, I can't comment on what Comcast may be
> currently doing.  But I too have been getting a bunch of advertising about
> AT&Ts "U-Verse" but it's still not available in my area. :(
>
> As for Comcast, I had them years ago, but had to ditch it, because latency
> was such a problem.  Web-surfing and downloads may be fine with a latency of
> 300 to 500 ms, but trying to VPN into the office for on-call support is not!
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john-thomas richards" <jtr at jrichards.org>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 10:09 AM
> Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
>
>
>> This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
>> speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
>> http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
>>
>> Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
>> much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
>> sales reps knock on my door about it.
>> --
>> john-thomas
>> ------
>> It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
>> Voltaire (1694-1778)
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From topher at wcsg.org  Sat Aug  9 11:57:17 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 11:57:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <489DBE5D.7010200@wcsg.org>

john-thomas richards wrote:
> This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here: 
> http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
> 
> Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> sales reps knock on my door about it.

I got 7141 down and 1410 up at noon today.

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Aug  9 12:54:02 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:54:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0808090732i550a58bcj13179f0cb8807c28@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<aecf8abe0808090732i550a58bcj13179f0cb8807c28@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080809165402.GA30271@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 10:32:13AM -0400, Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:09 AM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> > This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> > speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
> > http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
> >
> > Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> > much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> > sales reps knock on my door about it.
> 
> happen to me before, and I quitted comcast
> 
> Comcast = $ RIP OFF + UNLIMITED SPEED + MORE LAG
> AT&T = SMART $ + PERFECT SPEED + LESS LAG

Er...what happened to you before?  Comcast increased your speed?
Sorry, man.  Terrible.
-- 
john-thomas
------
It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and
moral courage so rare.
Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910)

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Aug  9 12:56:14 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 12:56:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <6BBEA097026B40B9A198202D9E100D65@kdl.net>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<6BBEA097026B40B9A198202D9E100D65@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <20080809165614.GB30271@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 10:35:01AM -0400, Rich Nagel wrote:
> From: "john-thomas richards" <jtr at jrichards.org>
> > This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> > speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
> > http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
> >
> > Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> > much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> > sales reps knock on my door about it.
> 
> Since I have AT&T's 6mb DSL, I can't comment on what Comcast may be 
> currently doing.  But I too have been getting a bunch of advertising about 
> AT&Ts "U-Verse" but it's still not available in my area. :(
> 
> As for Comcast, I had them years ago, but had to ditch it, because latency 
> was such a problem.  Web-surfing and downloads may be fine with a latency of 
> 300 to 500 ms, but trying to VPN into the office for on-call support is not!

AT&T has a 6mb DSL?  Wow.  How much are you paying?  What is the upload
speed?
-- 
john-thomas
------
Adults are obsolete children.
Dr. Seuss, humorist, illustrator, and author (1904-1991)

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sat Aug  9 13:30:30 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 13:30:30 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 10:09 -0400, john-thomas richards wrote:
> This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here: 
> http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
> 
> Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> sales reps knock on my door about it.

Yes, AT&T's U-verse is putting pressure on Comcast.

Its shown up here... along with the new cables strung along.

My only real problem with Comcast now, is not LAG. LAG is very minimal
now a day. My problem is them severing network sessions I have on a
regular basis.

I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
timeouts to properly end the sessions.

This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
issues. But it always happens sooner or later.

I have been getting in excess of 1.1Mbytes/sec (as much as 1.8MBytes/sec
actually) for a few years on Comcasts stuff, but only for GigaNews.

I also had a special Motorola Surfboard... one that was slightly
modified and had an non-stock firmware (it had shell access to it). But
since that failed a while ago, I now have a Motorola SurfBoard
SB5101a... no firmware revisions available for it (yet) with enhanced
capability.

But yes, I am getting very good speeds, I just wish my SSH sessions
wouldn't just DROP.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 13:34:11 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 13:34:11 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450808091034m304cdc08o229908318e328a0f@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:09 AM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
> http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
>
> Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> sales reps knock on my door about it.

I pay for their 6Mbit service, and I've seen speeds like that.
Usually only lasts a few seconds, before my rated speeds kick in.  I
think its their advertised "SpeedBoost".

Actually, I think it's just that their throttling software doesn't
kick in as early as they'd like.


-- 
:wq

From topher at wcsg.org  Sat Aug  9 13:39:41 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 13:39:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <489DD65D.1020404@wcsg.org>

Greg Folkert wrote:

> I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
> equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
> timeouts to properly end the sessions.
> 
> This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
> issues. But it always happens sooner or later.
> 
> But yes, I am getting very good speeds, I just wish my SSH sessions
> wouldn't just DROP.

That's whacky.  I don't ever have nearly the connections you have, but 
often when I'm working I'll have 2-3 ssh sessions open for 3-4 hours at 
a time.  I don't know that I've ever been knocked off by Comcast.

From networkman at triton.net  Sat Aug  9 14:29:05 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 14:29:05 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <97EA4E47A4084FBD9D11270E4EB679E8@kdl.net>

----- Original Message ----- 
> My only real problem with Comcast now, is not LAG. LAG is very minimal
> now a day. My problem is them severing network sessions I have on a
> regular basis.
>
> I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
> equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
> timeouts to properly end the sessions.
>
> This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
> issues. But it always happens sooner or later.
>
> greg at gregfolkert.net

There have been issues associated with Comcast in regard to their use of 
traffic shaping software on their network, to frustrate or restrict certain 
types of traffic, primarily BitTorrents.  Comcasts claims that is is only 
"delaying" said traffic, and not just aborting it.

More info can be found at the following link:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/88591

Regards,
Rich


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sat Aug  9 14:36:13 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:36:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <489DD65D.1020404@wcsg.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<489DD65D.1020404@wcsg.org>
Message-ID: <1218306973.5374.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 13:39 -0400, Topher wrote:
> Greg Folkert wrote:
> 
> > I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
> > equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
> > timeouts to properly end the sessions.
> > 
> > This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
> > issues. But it always happens sooner or later.
> > 
> > But yes, I am getting very good speeds, I just wish my SSH sessions
> > wouldn't just DROP.
> 
> That's whacky.  I don't ever have nearly the connections you have, but 
> often when I'm working I'll have 2-3 ssh sessions open for 3-4 hours at 
> a time.  I don't know that I've ever been knocked off by Comcast.

Topher, you know where I work. I work with one of your friends.

Well, my ssh sessions should be running for weeks at a time. They used
to, until this "traffic shaping" and U-Verse pressure came up.

It makes my IMAP connections to GMAIL fail and timeout as well.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
-------------- next part --------------
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sat Aug  9 14:37:28 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:37:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <97EA4E47A4084FBD9D11270E4EB679E8@kdl.net>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<97EA4E47A4084FBD9D11270E4EB679E8@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <1218307048.5374.6.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 14:29 -0400, Rich Nagel wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > My only real problem with Comcast now, is not LAG. LAG is very minimal
> > now a day. My problem is them severing network sessions I have on a
> > regular basis.
> >
> > I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
> > equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
> > timeouts to properly end the sessions.
> >
> > This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
> > issues. But it always happens sooner or later.
>
> There have been issues associated with Comcast in regard to their use of 
> traffic shaping software on their network, to frustrate or restrict certain 
> types of traffic, primarily BitTorrents.  Comcasts claims that is is only 
> "delaying" said traffic, and not just aborting it.
> 
> More info can be found at the following link:
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/88591
> 

Yeah and they got their patties slapped over it... thanks FCC, nice way
to enforce you rulings.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
-------------- next part --------------
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Aug  9 16:08:25 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:08:25 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <20080809200825.GA962@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 01:30:30PM -0400, Greg Folkert wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 10:09 -0400, john-thomas richards wrote:
> > This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> > speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here: 
> > http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
> > 
> > Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> > much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> > sales reps knock on my door about it.
> 
> Yes, AT&T's U-verse is putting pressure on Comcast.
> 
> Its shown up here... along with the new cables strung along.
> 
> My only real problem with Comcast now, is not LAG. LAG is very minimal
> now a day. My problem is them severing network sessions I have on a
> regular basis.
> 
> I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
> equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
> timeouts to properly end the sessions.
> 
> This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
> issues. But it always happens sooner or later.
> 
> I have been getting in excess of 1.1Mbytes/sec (as much as 1.8MBytes/sec
> actually) for a few years on Comcasts stuff, but only for GigaNews.
> 
> I also had a special Motorola Surfboard... one that was slightly
> modified and had an non-stock firmware (it had shell access to it). But
> since that failed a while ago, I now have a Motorola SurfBoard
> SB5101a... no firmware revisions available for it (yet) with enhanced
> capability.
> 
> But yes, I am getting very good speeds, I just wish my SSH sessions
> wouldn't just DROP.

I, too, get "stuck" connections with SSH.  I thought it was the other
end (net connection) that was causing it since I almost never ssh out
from my home, only in to my home.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Its name is Public Opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God.
Mark Twain

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Aug  9 16:11:53 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:11:53 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450808091034m304cdc08o229908318e328a0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<f5e00c450808091034m304cdc08o229908318e328a0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080809201153.GB962@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 01:34:11PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:09 AM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> > This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> > speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
> > http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
> >
> > Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> > much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> > sales reps knock on my door about it.
> 
> I pay for their 6Mbit service, and I've seen speeds like that.
> Usually only lasts a few seconds, before my rated speeds kick in.  I
> think its their advertised "SpeedBoost".

If 6Mbit service is their "regular" service, that is what I have, also.

> Actually, I think it's just that their throttling software doesn't
> kick in as early as they'd like.

That makes me wonder if they are increasing their bandwidth again.  I
seriously doubt they expect me to download at ~12,000kbps, but I'll
take it.
-- 
john-thomas
------
I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could
be just as proud for half the money.
Arthur Godfrey

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sat Aug  9 16:14:44 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:14:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <489DD65D.1020404@wcsg.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<489DD65D.1020404@wcsg.org>
Message-ID: <20080809201444.GC962@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 01:39:41PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> Greg Folkert wrote:
> 
> > I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
> > equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
> > timeouts to properly end the sessions.
> > 
> > This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
> > issues. But it always happens sooner or later.
> > 
> > But yes, I am getting very good speeds, I just wish my SSH sessions
> > wouldn't just DROP.
> 
> That's whacky.  I don't ever have nearly the connections you have, but 
> often when I'm working I'll have 2-3 ssh sessions open for 3-4 hours at 
> a time.  I don't know that I've ever been knocked off by Comcast.

Wow.  When I read Greg's message, my mind must have reduced those
numbers automatically.  I read "3-7"...*70* connections?  Wow.
Just....wow.  :-)  I can only assume these connections all have
different passwords, which makes me wonder if his monitor is covered
with several dozen sticky notes.  ;-)
-- 
john-thomas
------
As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my
idea of democracy.
Abraham Lincoln, 16th U.S. President (1861-1865)

From networkman at triton.net  Sat Aug  9 16:34:26 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:34:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org><f5e00c450808091034m304cdc08o229908318e328a0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080809201153.GB962@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <51421EDA10634636961E2513A5C75948@kdl.net>

When I signed up for AT&T service, there were seperate levels for (down) 
768k, 3Meg, and 6Meg.  I opted for the 6Meg, as the price difference was 
only like $10 more per month.

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "john-thomas richards" <jtr at jrichards.org>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?


> On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 01:34:11PM -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 10:09 AM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> 
>> wrote:
>> > This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
>> > speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
>> > http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
>> >
>> > Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
>> > much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
>> > sales reps knock on my door about it.
>>
>> I pay for their 6Mbit service, and I've seen speeds like that.
>> Usually only lasts a few seconds, before my rated speeds kick in.  I
>> think its their advertised "SpeedBoost".
>
> If 6Mbit service is their "regular" service, that is what I have, also.
>
>> Actually, I think it's just that their throttling software doesn't
>> kick in as early as they'd like.
>
> That makes me wonder if they are increasing their bandwidth again.  I
> seriously doubt they expect me to download at ~12,000kbps, but I'll
> take it.
> -- 
> john-thomas
> ------
> I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could
> be just as proud for half the money.
> Arthur Godfrey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> 


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sat Aug  9 18:33:07 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 18:33:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <20080809201444.GC962@jrichards.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<489DD65D.1020404@wcsg.org>  <20080809201444.GC962@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <1218321187.5374.21.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Sat, 2008-08-09 at 16:14 -0400, john-thomas richards wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 01:39:41PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> > Greg Folkert wrote:> 
> > > I typically have 30-70 ssh sessions open. When the "reset" the DOCSIS
> > > equipment, all of my session just stop responding and I have to wait for
> > > timeouts to properly end the sessions.
> > > 
> > > This has happened as often as once every 10 minutes, to 3 days between
> > > issues. But it always happens sooner or later.
> > > 
> > > But yes, I am getting very good speeds, I just wish my SSH sessions
> > > wouldn't just DROP.
> > 
> > That's whacky.  I don't ever have nearly the connections you have, but 
> > often when I'm working I'll have 2-3 ssh sessions open for 3-4 hours at 
> > a time.  I don't know that I've ever been knocked off by Comcast.
> 
> Wow.  When I read Greg's message, my mind must have reduced those
> numbers automatically.  I read "3-7"...*70* connections?  Wow.
> Just....wow.  :-)  I can only assume these connections all have
> different passwords, which makes me wonder if his monitor is covered
> with several dozen sticky notes.  ;-)

I use public/private SSH Key-Authentication. I have a nice 60+ character
pass-phrase. I use SSH-Agent to pass along the private key into the
systems at work, I turned on auth-forwarding for most of the servers,
except for the important ones that nobody except admins are supposed to
login to... like the LDAP servers, the DNS server the MySQL circular
Replication servers, the Wharehousing slave, the Webserver clusters.

There are other pieces I chose not to use...

And as far as passwords, I have about 20 Password bases (and use
permutations/misspellings) I have. Plus 4 throwaway passwords. My
shortest of the 20 password bases is 12 characters. for the throwaways,
the shortest is 8. The all have case mixing and numbers and punctuation,
etc. in them.

But then, i have the "corporate" passwords... they are now generated by
a password generator... and we pick out of a field of 100.

Bleah. Password and Pass-phrases... what a pain.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From topher at wcsg.org  Sat Aug  9 20:55:17 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:55:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <1218321187.5374.21.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>	<1218303030.5089.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>	<489DD65D.1020404@wcsg.org>
	<20080809201444.GC962@jrichards.org>
	<1218321187.5374.21.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <489E3C75.8090903@wcsg.org>

Greg Folkert wrote:
> I use public/private SSH Key-Authentication. I have a nice 60+ character
> pass-phrase. I use SSH-Agent to pass along the private key into the
> systems at work, I turned on auth-forwarding for most of the servers,
> except for the important ones that nobody except admins are supposed to
> login to... like the LDAP servers, the DNS server the MySQL circular
> Replication servers, the Wharehousing slave, the Webserver clusters.
> 
> There are other pieces I chose not to use...
> 
> And as far as passwords, I have about 20 Password bases (and use
> permutations/misspellings) I have. Plus 4 throwaway passwords. My
> shortest of the 20 password bases is 12 characters. for the throwaways,
> the shortest is 8. The all have case mixing and numbers and punctuation,
> etc. in them.

This is extraordinarily similar to what I do.  I very rarely use 
passwords at all, so I can never remember them, so I keep them in a gpg 
encrypted file.

It's quite the culture shock when I have to work with a server or person 
stuck in the world of ftp with passwords.  It's a huge headache.  I've 
actually been asked why I use anything so outdated as ssh.  I tell them 
I can't imagine going back to something as insecure and and annoyingly 
slow to use as ftp.

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 23:18:49 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 23:18:49 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <20080809165614.GB30271@jrichards.org>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<6BBEA097026B40B9A198202D9E100D65@kdl.net>
	<20080809165614.GB30271@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0808092018x158c67e7l6e9e38be772791a4@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 12:56 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 10:35:01AM -0400, Rich Nagel wrote:
>> From: "john-thomas richards" <jtr at jrichards.org>
>> > This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
>> > speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
>> > http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
>> >
>> > Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
>> > much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
>> > sales reps knock on my door about it.
>>
>> Since I have AT&T's 6mb DSL, I can't comment on what Comcast may be
>> currently doing.  But I too have been getting a bunch of advertising about
>> AT&Ts "U-Verse" but it's still not available in my area. :(
>>
>> As for Comcast, I had them years ago, but had to ditch it, because latency
>> was such a problem.  Web-surfing and downloads may be fine with a latency of
>> 300 to 500 ms, but trying to VPN into the office for on-call support is not!
>
> AT&T has a 6mb DSL?  Wow.  How much are you paying?  What is the upload
> speed?

$80 for 300 channels, unlimited minutes phone, 6Mb/s DL \ 1Mb/s UL


> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> Adults are obsolete children.
> Dr. Seuss, humorist, illustrator, and author (1904-1991)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From jtr at jrichards.org  Sun Aug 10 06:41:15 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 06:41:15 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] anyone else seeing crazy speeds from Comcast?
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0808092018x158c67e7l6e9e38be772791a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080809140910.GA29383@jrichards.org>
	<6BBEA097026B40B9A198202D9E100D65@kdl.net>
	<20080809165614.GB30271@jrichards.org>
	<aecf8abe0808092018x158c67e7l6e9e38be772791a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080810104115.GA5116@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 11:18:49PM -0400, Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 12:56 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 09, 2008 at 10:35:01AM -0400, Rich Nagel wrote:
> >> From: "john-thomas richards" <jtr at jrichards.org>
> >> > This morning I am getting amazing speed from Comcast.  My download
> >> > speed is 12,640kbps and upload is 1,827kbps.  See here:
> >> > http://www.speedtest.net/result/306938487.png.
> >> >
> >> > Man, oh, man, I hope this continues.  I wonder if Comcast is feeling
> >> > much pressure from AT&T's U-Verse service.  I have had a number of
> >> > sales reps knock on my door about it.
> >>
> >> Since I have AT&T's 6mb DSL, I can't comment on what Comcast may be
> >> currently doing.  But I too have been getting a bunch of advertising about
> >> AT&Ts "U-Verse" but it's still not available in my area. :(
> >>
> >> As for Comcast, I had them years ago, but had to ditch it, because latency
> >> was such a problem.  Web-surfing and downloads may be fine with a latency of
> >> 300 to 500 ms, but trying to VPN into the office for on-call support is not!
> >
> > AT&T has a 6mb DSL?  Wow.  How much are you paying?  What is the upload
> > speed?
> 
> $80 for 300 channels, unlimited minutes phone, 6Mb/s DL \ 1Mb/s UL

Thanks, but he has AT&T's DSL service, not U-Verse.
-- 
john-thomas
------
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Voltaire (1694-1778)

From dave at unlimitedventures.com  Sun Aug 10 12:24:08 2008
From: dave at unlimitedventures.com (David Szostek)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:24:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug Digest, Vol 29, Issue 15
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1038.1218313013.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <001801c8fb05$89994270$0e4d1e44@710M>

I recently got banned from using Comcast's ISP services. I was running an
offsite backup from my home as I would regularly see 6Mbit down vs 1.5Mbit
from our office. Each month they run a report to get the top 1% of their
bandwidth consumers, then take the top 1% of those and threaten to terminate
service. By the time I got my first warning, it was 10 days into the next
month and I had already been triggered in that month's report, so I lose. 

They said that their average consumer downloads 4GB/month. I had downloaded
~400GB. For such a large transit provider like Comcast, I would not see
400GB as a lot. But, just a word of warning to anyone else doing anything
similar.

~dave


From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Mon Aug 11 14:06:29 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:06:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!
In-Reply-To: <7DE723C385124B0BA244A368BD6205E5@287>
References: <7DE723C385124B0BA244A368BD6205E5@287>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0808111106p154c8106x8a36a004d26b028a@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: MySQL <news-alert at mysql.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:21 PM
Subject: MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!
To: profinuyasha at gmail.com


MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!

Take advantage of this opportunity to get leading edge MySQL training
in Michigan. Whether you're new to database technology or an
experienced developer or DBA, MySQL offers a comprehensive range of
certified training courses to further your success!

Do you need to ensure that the MySQL database will experience a
minimal loss of availability over time?
Do you want to increase the availability for MySQL?
Do you need to be able to present a MySQL high availability business
case to the managerial positions which will make the final decision?

Then MySQL High Availability is the course for you! Enroll now and
receive 10% off your training order! On-line orders do not qualify for
this special offer. Please reply to this email to receive the
discount.

MySQL High Availability
Southfield, Michigan (3 days)
September 3-5, 2008
$1,499.00 USD
http://www.mysql.com/training/courses/mysql_5_ha.html

You can also find more information on our complete offerings below:
Complete Course Catalog: http://www.mysql.com/training/catalog.html
Certification Information: http://www.mysql.com/certification/
Curriculum Path for Certification: http://www.mysql.com/training/pathways.html

Take advantage of this great training opportunity! MySQL also offers
on-site and custom delivery options.

To register for training and qualify for any special offers, contact
me directly at alexandra.alwin at sun.com or call me at 303-990-1382.
On-line orders do not apply.

Sincerely,

Alexandra Alwin
MySQL Training Sales
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

Direct:   303-990-1382
eFax:     303-648-5315
email:    alexandra.alwin at sun.com

Are you MySQL certified?  www.mysql.com/certification

Please click here to unsubscribe


- -- 
- ------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Mon Aug 11 16:31:03 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:31:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0808111106p154c8106x8a36a004d26b028a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7DE723C385124B0BA244A368BD6205E5@287>
	<aecf8abe0808111106p154c8106x8a36a004d26b028a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1218486663.17154.8.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 14:06 -0400, Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: MySQL <news-alert at mysql.com>
> Date: Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:21 PM
> Subject: MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!
> To: profinuyasha at gmail.com
> 
> 
> MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!
[SNIP]

Please do not forward these things to this list.

I get them myself and I believe these are very much against the whole
GRLUG arena of interest being commercial support. Sure we want to take
these courses, but...

Sure, its nice to know that this stuff is available, but its far, far
better to not forward blatant commercial plugs and advertisements to
this list.

Personally, I honestly don't care for these things through this method.

I could send a ton of stuff here. I get about 40 training courses plugs
and stuff a week. How about I send along all the Microsoft course
announcements I get from the "partnered" vendors I deal with?

A person could easily spend $300K a week on the stuff I get pushed at me
via this type of e-mail, if they were to actually buy/signup for
everything.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From brousch at gmail.com  Mon Aug 11 16:59:17 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:59:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!
In-Reply-To: <1218486663.17154.8.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <7DE723C385124B0BA244A368BD6205E5@287>
	<aecf8abe0808111106p154c8106x8a36a004d26b028a@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218486663.17154.8.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930808111359p61b9b297t2e0f956083f0700b@mail.gmail.com>

>
> A person could easily spend $300K a week on the stuff I get pushed at me
> via this type of e-mail, if they were to actually buy/signup for
> everything.
> --
> greg at gregfolkert.net


But imagine how educated you'd be! It would be the equivalent of six college
degrees!
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Mon Aug 11 19:22:54 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:22:54 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: MySQL Advanced Training coming to Michigan!
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930808111359p61b9b297t2e0f956083f0700b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7DE723C385124B0BA244A368BD6205E5@287>
	<aecf8abe0808111106p154c8106x8a36a004d26b028a@mail.gmail.com>
	<1218486663.17154.8.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<d92a2d930808111359p61b9b297t2e0f956083f0700b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1218496974.17154.12.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 16:59 -0400, Ben Rousch wrote:
>         A person could easily spend $300K a week on the stuff I get
>         pushed at me
>         via this type of e-mail, if they were to actually buy/signup
>         for
>         everything.
>         --
>         greg at gregfolkert.net
> 
> But imagine how educated you'd be! It would be the equivalent of six
> coll