From cdubois at n-vint.com  Wed Apr  2 13:26:29 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 13:26:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8101@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
Intel's drive to put Linux on mobile Internet devices gains support as Adobe and RealNetworks will offer AIR and RealPlayer for handhelds that use the open source OS

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/04/02/Adobe-RealNetworks-back-Linux-on-MIDs_1.html?source=NLC-MOBILEHARDWARE&cgd=2008-04-02


Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information that is protected under state and/or federal law.  If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not disseminate without permission of the author.  If any person makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper authorities.

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 14:23:39 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:23:39 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8101@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8101@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804021123h3cd924e4h4ea0475d85300e9a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
> Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
>  Intel's drive to put Linux on mobile Internet devices gains support as Adobe and RealNetworks will offer AIR and RealPlayer for handhelds that use the open source OS

Well that sucks.

--tim

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Wed Apr  2 14:34:19 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:34:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804021123h3cd924e4h4ea0475d85300e9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8101@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<2c97fe9d0804021123h3cd924e4h4ea0475d85300e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8161@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Sucks???
I thought it was a good thing.

Casey

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Schmidt [mailto:timschmidt at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:24 PM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
> Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
>  Intel's drive to put Linux on mobile Internet devices gains support as Adobe and RealNetworks will offer AIR and RealPlayer for handhelds that use the open source OS

Well that sucks.

--tim
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information that is protected under state and/or federal law.  If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not disseminate without permission of the author.  If any person makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper authorities.

From jodanlime at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 14:37:37 2008
From: jodanlime at gmail.com (Jordan Hudson)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:37:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8161@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8101@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<2c97fe9d0804021123h3cd924e4h4ea0475d85300e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8161@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <d6184eb20804021137k75cef078w9ab60cd74a35bf2e@mail.gmail.com>

adobe, sweet for the most part.
realnetworks? just reminds me of real player. 'nuf said.

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:

> Sucks???
> I thought it was a good thing.
>
> Casey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Schmidt [mailto:timschmidt at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:24 PM
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
> > Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
> >  Intel's drive to put Linux on mobile Internet devices gains support as
> Adobe and RealNetworks will offer AIR and RealPlayer for handhelds that use
> the open source OS
>
> Well that sucks.
>
> --tim
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information
> that is protected under state and/or federal law.  If you received this
> message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this
> message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not
> be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the
> information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to
> your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been
> maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or
> interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its
> contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not
> disseminate without permission of the author.  If any person makes a false
> or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may
> have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper
> authorities.
> _______________________________________________
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> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From networkman at triton.net  Wed Apr  2 14:33:50 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:33:50 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8101@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<2c97fe9d0804021123h3cd924e4h4ea0475d85300e9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901c894f0$18b86a20$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Huh?  Why?  I'd think that backing from Adobe & RealNetworks would be a GOOD 
thing. :/

Please explain.

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Schmidt" <timschmidt at gmail.com>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs


> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Casey DuBois <cdubois at n-vint.com> wrote:
>> Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
>>  Intel's drive to put Linux on mobile Internet devices gains support as 
>> Adobe and RealNetworks will offer AIR and RealPlayer for handhelds that 
>> use the open source OS
>
> Well that sucks.
>
> --tim
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> 


From grlugcasey at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 15:42:40 2008
From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:42:40 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG April Meeting - Thursday April 10th 6-8PM
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804021242p308ab2b5w76b88f29e270abf6@mail.gmail.com>

*GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) April Meeting*

Food will be provided so please RSVP to grlugcasey at gmail.com so I can make
sure to have enough.

*Also let me know if you have any special needs (Allergies, Vegetarian,
Etc.).

*Date and Time:*

Thursday April 10th

6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)
*
Location:
*N-Vint, Inc.

3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1

*Topics:*

*What do we want to discuss???*

*Anyone have a presentation???*



<http://www.wmlug.org/>

Sincerely,

*Casey M. DuBois*

*N-VINT, Inc.*

3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316

616-656-5500 Office

*866-337-2686* Direct

*AOL IM: CaseyNVINT*

cdubois at n-vint.com**



"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."
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From cdubois at n-vint.com  Wed Apr  2 16:11:06 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:11:06 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday
 April 10th 6-8PM
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8213@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) April Meeting
Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com> so I can make sure to have enough.
*Also let me know if you have any special needs (Allergies, Vegetarian, Etc.).
Date and Time:
Thursday April 10th
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Location:
N-Vint, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
Topics:
What do we want to discuss???
Does anyone have a presentation???

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems."
-Linus Torvalds

________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information that is protected under state and/or federal law. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not disseminate without permission of the author. If any person makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper authorities.
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr  2 16:12:26 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:12:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <001901c894f0$18b86a20$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8101@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
	<2c97fe9d0804021123h3cd924e4h4ea0475d85300e9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<001901c894f0$18b86a20$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804021312i27bc1380y6434d002d971dcc8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> Huh?  Why?  I'd think that backing from Adobe & RealNetworks would be a GOOD
>  thing. :/
>
>  Please explain.

Flash and Real's video codec are two of the very few pieces of closed
source software many people still use regularly.  Seeing them spread
is not a good thing.

A Good ThingTM would be Adobe contributing programmer time,
documentation, or money toward Gnash or swfdec to encourage
interoperability and standards.  I, for one, am not excited to see
closed, buggy, impossible to fix software spread onto platforms I have
a chance of using.

--tim

From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  3 09:08:37 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 06:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804021312i27bc1380y6434d002d971dcc8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Presentations?  Maybe we could have a debate about the
benefits of closed sourced software supporting linux?
;)

I don't see anything inherently bad in it. At least it
shows interest in linux and helps to make linux
products more competitive in the market as well as
generating more corporate interest. 

As long as consumers can choose which programs to
install and uninstall, closed and open source should
be able to  co-exist (as long as you know the security
risks and bug risks).  The problem comes if you "have"
to run it and have no other alternative. 

Yes, Adobe Flash is by no means perfect and it allowed
hackers to win the Pwn to Own challenge: 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080331/bs_nf/59043

I am told that Ubuntu was just as vulnerable by people
who say they know a lot about security. But Microsoft,
for one reason or another, is a popular target for
hackers ;). 

The ideal end of any project is to become "open
source" (and many if not most projects should start
that way from the beginning), closed source isn't
necessarily a bad thing for development:

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/dec/long-live-closed-source-software/

I think specifically using Adobe Flash as a negative
is a bit unfair since Flash is a relatively recent
acquisition of Adobe (they have had only one major
boxed release of it I think?).  

Most of the people who work at Adobe are all about
open source, but they feel they need to develop things
more at their company and of course "the suits" need
to make money.  The main reason given why they never
wrote Photoshop for Linux is that they never felt they
could make money off of it, which may be one reason
why they are going with the web Photoshop project.

I think a better Adobe counterexample is pdf, which
they developed and has been a format used for almost
forever in the linux community, and Adobe has turned
it over to make an ISO standard. 
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7542722606.html

Even before it was submitted to be an ISO standard
there were a great deal of 3rd party apps that you
could use for pdfs:

http://www.cogniview.com/convert-pdf-to-excel/post/pdf-editing-creation-50-open-sourcefree-alternatives-to-adobe-acrobat/

As for RealMedia . . . yeah . . . at least it is a
voice of support for linux, albeit one I don't really
care for.  They don't offer anything usefully
innovative but always becomes a default standard
because they have been around for awhile. When it
started out it was pretty cool (for a closed-source
product) but then it started getting bloated with ads
and killed itself.  I would definitely be happier with
a xiph.org alternative codec (theora).

Even if RealMedia is an impending failure, at least it
promotes more work on linux, and failures can always
teach lessons.

--- Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Rich Nagel
> <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > Huh?  Why?  I'd think that backing from Adobe &
> RealNetworks would be a GOOD
> >  thing. :/
> >
> >  Please explain.
> 
> Flash and Real's video codec are two of the very few
> pieces of closed
> source software many people still use regularly. 
> Seeing them spread
> is not a good thing.
> 
> A Good ThingTM would be Adobe contributing
> programmer time,
> documentation, or money toward Gnash or swfdec to
> encourage
> interoperability and standards.  I, for one, am not
> excited to see
> closed, buggy, impossible to fix software spread
> onto platforms I have
> a chance of using.
> 
> --tim
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 


From networkman at triton.net  Thu Apr  3 10:22:07 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (networkman at triton.net)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:22:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3205.69.11.205.103.1207232527.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>

Thanks John. :)  I'm just starting to get back into Linux again, so I'm
not "up" on what all has been going on.  Your explaination makes a good
deal of sense to me.

Rich



> Presentations?  Maybe we could have a debate about the
> benefits of closed sourced software supporting linux?
> ;)
>
> I don't see anything inherently bad in it. At least it
> shows interest in linux and helps to make linux
> products more competitive in the market as well as
> generating more corporate interest.
>
> As long as consumers can choose which programs to
> install and uninstall, closed and open source should
> be able to  co-exist (as long as you know the security
> risks and bug risks).  The problem comes if you "have"
> to run it and have no other alternative.
>
> Yes, Adobe Flash is by no means perfect and it allowed
> hackers to win the Pwn to Own challenge:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080331/bs_nf/59043
>
> I am told that Ubuntu was just as vulnerable by people
> who say they know a lot about security. But Microsoft,
> for one reason or another, is a popular target for
> hackers ;).
>
> The ideal end of any project is to become "open
> source" (and many if not most projects should start
> that way from the beginning), closed source isn't
> necessarily a bad thing for development:
>
> http://discovermagazine.com/2007/dec/long-live-closed-source-software/
>
> I think specifically using Adobe Flash as a negative
> is a bit unfair since Flash is a relatively recent
> acquisition of Adobe (they have had only one major
> boxed release of it I think?).
>
> Most of the people who work at Adobe are all about
> open source, but they feel they need to develop things
> more at their company and of course "the suits" need
> to make money.  The main reason given why they never
> wrote Photoshop for Linux is that they never felt they
> could make money off of it, which may be one reason
> why they are going with the web Photoshop project.
>
> I think a better Adobe counterexample is pdf, which
> they developed and has been a format used for almost
> forever in the linux community, and Adobe has turned
> it over to make an ISO standard.
> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7542722606.html
>
> Even before it was submitted to be an ISO standard
> there were a great deal of 3rd party apps that you
> could use for pdfs:
>
> http://www.cogniview.com/convert-pdf-to-excel/post/pdf-editing-creation-50-open-sourcefree-alternatives-to-adobe-acrobat/
>
> As for RealMedia . . . yeah . . . at least it is a
> voice of support for linux, albeit one I don't really
> care for.  They don't offer anything usefully
> innovative but always becomes a default standard
> because they have been around for awhile. When it
> started out it was pretty cool (for a closed-source
> product) but then it started getting bloated with ads
> and killed itself.  I would definitely be happier with
> a xiph.org alternative codec (theora).
>
> Even if RealMedia is an impending failure, at least it
> promotes more work on linux, and failures can always
> teach lessons.
>
> --- Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Rich Nagel
>> <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
>> > Huh?  Why?  I'd think that backing from Adobe &
>> RealNetworks would be a GOOD
>> >  thing. :/
>> >
>> >  Please explain.
>>
>> Flash and Real's video codec are two of the very few
>> pieces of closed
>> source software many people still use regularly.
>> Seeing them spread
>> is not a good thing.
>>
>> A Good ThingTM would be Adobe contributing
>> programmer time,
>> documentation, or money toward Gnash or swfdec to
>> encourage
>> interoperability and standards.  I, for one, am not
>> excited to see
>> closed, buggy, impossible to fix software spread
>> onto platforms I have
>> a chance of using.
>>
>> --tim
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>>
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>



From timschmidt at gmail.com  Thu Apr  3 10:31:22 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:31:22 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <2c97fe9d0804021312i27bc1380y6434d002d971dcc8@mail.gmail.com>
	<415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804030731p53679c0epf3bcbbd813d5f1a3@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 9:08 AM, John Harig <radiodurans at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  I don't see anything inherently bad in it. At least it
>  shows interest in linux and helps to make linux
>  products more competitive in the market as well as
>  generating more corporate interest.

I don't use Linux because it's 'competitive in the market'.  I use
linux because the fundamental nature of FOSS software has and will
continue to encourage faster / better / more stable / standards
compliant / interoperable / innovative / secure / usable / flexible
tools that empower me to do what I want, when I want, how I want.

The very existence of Adobe's (previously Macromedia's) closed,
binary-only port of Flash for Linux encourages a 'good enough'
mentality.  Instead of encouraging others to contribute toward a
solution for everyone, you encourage others to thank Adobe for it's
blob of 32bit x86-only (soon to be DRM-laden) 'gift'.  PPC, x86-64,
MIPS, ARM, and Sparc users be damned.  Embedded users (read the flash
EULA lately?), non-X users, users with V4L2 devices, users without
ALSA (heard of Jack?), users who care about security; the existence of
a non-free flash that most people find 'good enough' discourages a
large portion (the majority?) of the community from focusing on flash
as a problem that needs fixing.  This harms all minority FOSS users.
And since I think we can all agree here that, as software grows to
support more varied operating conditions, it's code quality and
robustness generally improve, we are all losing.

Now, I occasionally use Adobe's non-free flash.  There are several
things I do on a semi-regular basis that Gnash can't accomplish yet.
But I don't see Adobe's choice to give us a poor quality port in
preference to rudimentary documentation as a good thing.  And I'm
certainly not content with the situation as is.  I encourage you all
to install Gnash, and evaluate it for your current workload.  File a
bug report if you find one, talk to the developers on IRC, join the
mailing list, perhaps send an email to Adobe, politely asking for
documentation (I think I will today), but most importantly, don't
forget why you use the software you do.

>  As long as consumers can choose which programs to
>  install and uninstall, closed and open source should
>  be able to  co-exist (as long as you know the security
>  risks and bug risks).  The problem comes if you "have"
>  to run it and have no other alternative.

Your supposition requires the precondition of a level playing field.
If Flash were documented - at all - I'd be perfectly willing to let
the implementations stand on their merits.

> [FUD snip]

>  The ideal end of any project is to become "open
>  source" (and many if not most projects should start
>  that way from the beginning), closed source isn't
>  necessarily a bad thing for development:

It's bad for my ability to develop, and yours.  And that is bad for all of us.

>  I think specifically using Adobe Flash as a negative
>  is a bit unfair since Flash is a relatively recent
>  acquisition of Adobe (they have had only one major
>  boxed release of it I think?).

Adobe acquired Macromedia on Dec 3 2005.  In 2.5 years they've not
released one page of format documentation, let alone code.  It's not
going to happen any time soon.

>  Most of the people who work at Adobe are all about
>  open source, but they feel they need to develop things
>  more at their company and of course "the suits" need
>  to make money.  The main reason given why they never
>  wrote Photoshop for Linux is that they never felt they
>  could make money off of it, which may be one reason
>  why they are going with the web Photoshop project.

Right.  That's why Photoshop is one of the primary Windows
applications Codeweavers makes a living supporting on Linux.  And
again, who wants a crippled port when we could be improving GIMP?
FOSS software empowers YOU to fix problems, make improvements,
influence others to do the same.  Squandering that gift is insulting.

> [PDF snip]

I don't really have anything bad to say about PDFs.  There seems to be
adequate documentation, and we have highly-featured FOSS
implementations.  Good stuff.

>  Even if RealMedia is an impending failure, at least it
>  promotes more work on linux, and failures can always
>  teach lessons.

With friends like that...

--tim

From ndrier at gmail.com  Thu Apr  3 10:42:17 2008
From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 10:42:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Computer goodies
Message-ID: <7f08d14b0804030742s1996ef02mc1053eb21408befd@mail.gmail.com>

I got the job offer that dreams are made of,  and that dream says 'we
will pay you to move to California'.  So i'm looking to lighten my
load a bit.

The Goods:

Sun Netra T1 1u server.  400Mhz SPARC / 512 megs of ram.

Dell Dimension 933r.  Believe its a 933 mhz, 256 megs.

AOPEN custom Tower.  400mhz, 256megs.

COMPAQ Deskpro with 3 nics, 1.0 CPU, and 256 megs of ram.  This is my
current smoothwall firewall,  so you can either trade me for a decent
broadband / wireless router,  or just wait until the day that I move
to take it.

A box of functional video cards, ram sticks, NIC's, WIFI cards, and
another motherboard for the Deskpro system.

I have the HDD for all the systems,  and only if I can find time to
zero them will I include them.  If anyone knows of a school or trade
center that is looking for computer stuff like this,  I would rather
give it to an organization like that.  If not,  hit me on or off list
and make me an offer.

Nate

From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  4 02:39:44 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 23:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804030731p53679c0epf3bcbbd813d5f1a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <612644.72697.qm@web80403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>>  I don't see anything inherently bad in it. At
least it shows interest in linux and helps to make
linux products more competitive in the market as well
as generating more corporate interest.

> I don't use Linux because it's 'competitive in the
market'.  I use linux because the fundamental nature
of FOSS software has and will continue to encourage
faster / better / more stable / standards compliant /
interoperable / innovative / secure / usable /
flexible
tools that empower me to do what I want, when I
want, how I want.

--> Yes, I personally use linux for many of those same
reasons, but I was trying to address the movement as a
whole, not my personal reasons for running linux. We
all have disagreements over our favorite app, favorite
distro, and favorite tools. But that's what is good
about choice with an OS like linux . . . even the
choice between closed and open software. 

Let's say that Adobe Flash is the worst piece of ****
ever, the Microsoft Bob of linux.  As long as there is
one person out there that wants to run that particular
application, isn't it a good thing that he/she can
choose to run or not run it rather than not having the
choice at all?

Because something isn't the best possible scenario it
doesn't mean it is automatically the worst case or
even a bad case.

Would it be a "better" thing for end users if Adobe
made flash open source? Most likely yes.  Does that
automatically make it "bad" thing that it isn't?  I
don't think it necessarily does. . . it probably just
means that it isn't as good as it could be.  Seeing as
how so many people use it, it seems like a good thing
that closed source flash has come about, but it would
be even better if it opened up at some point.

But I was specifically trying to address whether the
corporate sponsorship of linux products who have
closed sources linux apps is a good thing for the
linux movement as a whole, and I think it could argued
yes -- increasing the user base and generating
corporate interest in linux IS on the whole a good
thing for the movement, as long as it doesn't infringe
on your ability to make the modifications you desire.

I think there are many potential Linux users out there
who might be swayed by a company like Adobe even if I
will continue to use Linux for my own needs
regardless.
 
> The very existence of Adobe's (previously
Macromedia's) closed, binary-only port of Flash for
Linux encourages a 'good enough'mentality.  Instead of
encouraging others to contribute toward a solution for
everyone, you encourage others to thank Adobe for it's
blob of 32bit x86-only  And since I think we can all
agree here that, as software grows to support more
varied operating conditions, it's code quality and
robustness generally improve, we are all losing.

--> I disagree that the very existence of closed
source software encourages a "good enough" mentality,
especially on linux. The moment a new closed source
app is written, somebody somewhere is looking into
developing open source alternative.  But even in the
context of closed sourced software, you have to
continually update and improve your product to stay
competitive with other closed source alternatives. 
"Good enough" is really only an issue when something 
becomes a monopoly, which is a different issue from
open vs closed source apps.  The evolution might be
slower, but I have never seen a leader stop at "good
enough".
 
> Now, I occasionally use Adobe's non-free flash. 
There are several things I do on a semi-regular basis
that Gnash can't accomplish yet.  But I don't see
Adobe's choice to give us a poor quality port in
preference to rudimentary documentation as a good
thing.

--> OK so I think this actually demonstrates much of
what I said.  Again, having the option of having the
functionality of the non-free flash is better than not
having it at all . . . 

. . . And would Gnash even exist without the closed
source version?  Many great open source projects start
off as closed source ideas, like that whole AT&T UNIX
thing for example. 

Also, by stating tasks that "Gnash can't accomplish
yet", it sounds like you are also optimistic that it
will find a way even if adobe flash remains closed. 
If closed programs set a goal, open source usually
goes well beyond it.   Yes, opening Adobe Flash might
speed up development in the short run with Adobe
created solutions intitally to start from, but in the
long run, open source is completely capable of
developing its own solutions independently.  
 
A poor quality closed source port with poor
documentation is better than none at all, and is also
inspiration for open source programmers to do
something better and with better results. 

>I encourage you all to install Gnash, and evaluate it
for your current workload.  File a bug report if you
find one, talk to the developers on IRC, join the
mailing list, perhaps send an email to Adobe, politely
asking for documentation (I think I will today), but
most importantly, don't forget why you use the
software you do.

--> I agree with all of that, I think we differ only
at the point where closed source Adobe Flash for linux
and Adobe supporting a Linux MID is a bad thing rather
than saying it is a good thing, but just not as good
as it could be if it were open source.

>> As long as consumers can choose which programs to
install and uninstall, closed and open source should
be able to  co-exist (as long as you know the security
risks and bug risks).  The problem comes if you
"have" to run it and have no other alternative.
 
> Your supposition requires the precondition of a
level playing field.

No, I don't see that. A precondition of my statement
would be "no dependency conflicts".  A level playing
field would only be a description of a possible
condition, not a pre-condition. Running MS Word and
OpenOffice Writer on the same computer does not
necessitate a level playing field as a precondition.

But let's say there is a computer only with MS Word on
it.  MS Word can't do something OO Writer can, so I
just need to download Writer, install it and run it
with the help of all its good open source
documentation. 

But what if I have a computer with only OpenOffice and
I need some MS Word functionality not yet available?
Shell out the $$$$ consult the awful documentation.

So now take these two conditions: one where Adobe
supports linux and one where it does not.

In both cases I can use whatever open source
implementation I desire.  In the first case, however,
I can choose to run the Adobe closed sourced program
if I choose to and/or the open source implementation. 
More choice is a plus in that case.

> If Flash were documented - at all - I'd be perfectly
willing to let the implementations stand on their
merits.

--> Flash is documented:

http://www.adobe.com/support/documentation/en/flash/

But of course that is probably not in the way you mean
or at least as detailed as a developer would like . .
. and definitely not as well as an open source project
. due to the legality of closed source code.

>> The ideal end of any project is to become "open
source" (and many if not most projects should start
that way from the beginning), closed source isn't
necessarily a bad thing for development:

> It's bad for my ability to develop, and yours.  And
that is bad for all of us.

--> In cases such as Software patents it is clearly
bad -- the entire programs isn't patented, but the
algorithms and techniques used are . . . 

. . . but the existence of a closed source app
shouldn't hinder development for task it performs, it
should only hinder your ability to copy the closed
source solution or solve it in the same way.

If a closed source app finds a way to Detroit via
skateboard, that shouldn't hinder me from developing
an open source Ferrari to drive me there . . . or take
me  someplace better or further away like New York.  

(And the fact that my open source car has wheels as
the closed source skateboard has wheels shouldn't be
seen as infringement.  Circles, after all, are found
everywhere in nature.)

Did AMD say that Intel hindered it's chip design by
not sharing its proprietary designs?  AMD went right
ahead and reverse engineered its own.


>>  I think specifically using Adobe Flash as a
negative is a bit unfair since Flash is a relatively
recent acquisition of Adobe (they have had only one
major boxed release of it I think?).
 
> Adobe acquired Macromedia on Dec 3 2005.  In 2.5
years they've not released one page of format
documentation, let alone code.  It's not going to
happen any time soon.

--> I think the key there is "acquired".  You don't
fully merge two companies together even after 2.5
years.  

Sprint acquired Nextel about the same time, and  last
month I had to inquire about an old Nextel account so
I called Sprint Accounts.  I ended up calling a
different number because the records hadn't been
merged yet.  

I think for adobe to have released its first version
of flash in that time while buggy is pretty good
considering.  I would expect them to want to get at
least a couple of closed source releases in for such a
a multi-million dollar acquisition.


> >  Most of the people who work at Adobe are all
about
open source, but they feel they need to develop things
more at their company and of course "the suits" need
to make money.  The main reason given why they never
wrote Photoshop for Linux is that they never felt
they could make money off of it, which may be one
reason why they are going with the web Photoshop
project.
 
> Right.  That's why Photoshop is one of the primary
Windows applications Codeweavers makes a living
supporting on Linux.  And again, who wants a crippled
port when we could be improving GIMP?

GIMP wasn't designed to replace photoshop and will
probably never support the complete functionality of 
Photoshop, especially for things like Pantone numbers
for spot colors due to legal issues.  GIMP developers
have a different agenda than photoshop developers even
if more subtly different at times.  

However, 90% of the stuff I need to do I can use the
GIMP, but it would be nice to have the choice of a
photoshop for linux for that other 10%.  Until then
there will be VMs.

> FOSS software empowers YOU to fix problems, make
improvements, influence others to do the same. 
Squandering that gift is insulting.

That's a leap in logic I cannot make . . . accepting
that FOSS software empowering users to fix problems
doesn't mean that I've squandered the gift by running
closed source apps/ports for linux.


> I don't really have anything bad to say about PDFs. 
There seems to be adequate documentation, and we have
highly-featured FOSS implementations.  Good stuff.

--> Agreed!  Thank goodness for that originally closed
source Adobe project combined the power of open source
development to create implementation solutions over
the years. It has now become an ISO standard and an
open format.  Perhaps the same thing will happen with
flash in a few more years as the code matures . . . 

From dave at uvhosting.com  Sat Apr  5 00:04:29 2008
From: dave at uvhosting.com (David Szostek)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:04:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Xen
Message-ID: <003a01c896d2$25b0c720$6401a8c0@710M>

Hi,

Consider a server with a 4TB RAID5 volume of SATA drives and a 450GB RAID 5
volume of 15k SCSI drives.

When creating a guest domain in Xen, we specify the main storage for it on
the 4TB volume when we create it.

We would also like to allow this guest domain some storage on the 450GB
volume. 

How would this be accomplished? Anyone have any ideas? Google hasn't been
very helpful (though my search terms could suck too).

Thanks much!
~dave


------------------
Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI 49503. 
Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website: www.unlimitedventures.com

LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.


From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Sat Apr  5 00:29:31 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:29:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Xen
In-Reply-To: <003a01c896d2$25b0c720$6401a8c0@710M>
References: <003a01c896d2$25b0c720$6401a8c0@710M>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804042129v7cb56886i39db26296a544e3c@mail.gmail.com>

Have you tried PLESK?

On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:04 AM, David Szostek <dave at uvhosting.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Consider a server with a 4TB RAID5 volume of SATA drives and a 450GB RAID
> 5
> volume of 15k SCSI drives.
>
> When creating a guest domain in Xen, we specify the main storage for it on
> the 4TB volume when we create it.
>
> We would also like to allow this guest domain some storage on the 450GB
> volume.
>
> How would this be accomplished? Anyone have any ideas? Google hasn't been
> very helpful (though my search terms could suck too).
>
> Thanks much!
> ~dave
>
>
> ------------------
> Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI 49503.
> Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website:
> www.unlimitedventures.com
>
> LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender
> by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from
> your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither
> this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or
> provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an
> Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From dave at unlimitedventures.com  Sat Apr  5 00:49:32 2008
From: dave at unlimitedventures.com (David Szostek)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 00:49:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Xen
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804042129v7cb56886i39db26296a544e3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004201c896d8$71385a40$6401a8c0@710M>

Do you mean their hosting control panel? I don't think that does
Virtualization. 
 
They do have a virtualization product, but it is still in beta. 
 
Do you have any experience with it for this kind of application?
 
~dave

-----Original Message-----
From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
Professor Inuyasha
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 12:30 AM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Xen


Have you tried PLESK?


On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:04 AM, David Szostek <dave at uvhosting.com> wrote:


Hi,

Consider a server with a 4TB RAID5 volume of SATA drives and a 450GB RAID 5
volume of 15k SCSI drives.

When creating a guest domain in Xen, we specify the main storage for it on
the 4TB volume when we create it.

We would also like to allow this guest domain some storage on the 450GB
volume.

How would this be accomplished? Anyone have any ideas? Google hasn't been
very helpful (though my search terms could suck too).

Thanks much!
~dave


------------------
Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI 49503.
Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website:
www.unlimitedventures.com <http://www.unlimitedventures.com/> 

LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended
recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender
by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from
your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized
disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither
this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or
provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an
Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.

_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug





-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha 


------------------
Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI 49503. 
Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website: www.unlimitedventures.com

LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.

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From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Sat Apr  5 01:08:37 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 01:08:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Xen
In-Reply-To: <004201c896d8$71385a40$6401a8c0@710M>
References: <aecf8abe0804042129v7cb56886i39db26296a544e3c@mail.gmail.com>
	<004201c896d8$71385a40$6401a8c0@710M>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804042208p4fa6d339q470e55cc11964e02@mail.gmail.com>

I know Novell can do it....that's what I heard

On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:49 AM, David Szostek <dave at unlimitedventures.com>
wrote:

>  Do you mean their hosting control panel? I don't think that does
> Virtualization.
>
> They do have a virtualization product, but it is still in beta.
>
> Do you have any experience with it for this kind of application?
>
> ~dave
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Professor Inuyasha
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 05, 2008 12:30 AM
> *To:* grlug at grlug.org
> *Subject:* Re: [GRLUG] Xen
>
> Have you tried PLESK?
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:04 AM, David Szostek <dave at uvhosting.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Consider a server with a 4TB RAID5 volume of SATA drives and a 450GB
> > RAID 5
> > volume of 15k SCSI drives.
> >
> > When creating a guest domain in Xen, we specify the main storage for it
> > on
> > the 4TB volume when we create it.
> >
> > We would also like to allow this guest domain some storage on the 450GB
> > volume.
> >
> > How would this be accomplished? Anyone have any ideas? Google hasn't
> > been
> > very helpful (though my search terms could suck too).
> >
> > Thanks much!
> > ~dave
> >
> >
> > ------------------
> > Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI
> > 49503.
> > Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website:
> > www.unlimitedventures.com
> >
> > LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended
> > recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender
> > by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from
> > your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized
> > disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither
> > this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or
> > provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an
> > Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
>
>    ------------------------------
>
> Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI 49503.
>
> Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website:
> www.unlimitedventures.com
>
> LEGAL NOTICE: This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender
> by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from
> your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither
> this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or
> provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an
> Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From brousch at orthicomp.net  Sat Apr  5 10:42:36 2008
From: brousch at orthicomp.net (Ben Rousch)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 14:42:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [GRLUG] Xen
In-Reply-To: <003a01c896d2$25b0c720$6401a8c0@710M>
Message-ID: <966907808.10131207406556185.JavaMail.root@mail.orthicomp.net>

----- "David Szostek" <dave at uvhosting.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Consider a server with a 4TB RAID5 volume of SATA drives and a 450GB
> RAID 5 volume of 15k SCSI drives.
> 
> When creating a guest domain in Xen, we specify the main storage for
> it on the 4TB volume when we create it.
> 
> We would also like to allow this guest domain some storage on the
> 450GB volume. 
> 
> How would this be accomplished? Anyone have any ideas? Google hasn't
> been very helpful (though my search terms could suck too).
> 
> Thanks much!
> ~dave

I'm not very familiar with Xen and how it differs from VMWare. In VMWare you create virtual disk drives, so you would create a drive on the 4TB volume which is mounted as / in the guest OS and then create a drive on the 450GB volume which gets mounted as /mnt/awesome. The guest's user can then stick whatever they want in the main volume or in /mnt/awesome as they desire.
-- 
  -- Ben Rousch

From tomewarren at gmail.com  Thu Apr  3 09:49:57 2008
From: tomewarren at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:49:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <2c97fe9d0804021312i27bc1380y6434d002d971dcc8@mail.gmail.com>
	<415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15f732370804030649h2dc9ffak4dd3cd3516471684@mail.gmail.com>

<delurk>

Didn't Realnetworks release the helix player as OSS?

</delurk>



On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 9:08 AM, John Harig <radiodurans at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Presentations?  Maybe we could have a debate about the
> benefits of closed sourced software supporting linux?
> ;)
>
> I don't see anything inherently bad in it. At least it
> shows interest in linux and helps to make linux
> products more competitive in the market as well as
> generating more corporate interest.
>
> As long as consumers can choose which programs to
> install and uninstall, closed and open source should
> be able to  co-exist (as long as you know the security
> risks and bug risks).  The problem comes if you "have"
> to run it and have no other alternative.
>
> Yes, Adobe Flash is by no means perfect and it allowed
> hackers to win the Pwn to Own challenge:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080331/bs_nf/59043
>
> I am told that Ubuntu was just as vulnerable by people
> who say they know a lot about security. But Microsoft,
> for one reason or another, is a popular target for
> hackers ;).
>
> The ideal end of any project is to become "open
> source" (and many if not most projects should start
> that way from the beginning), closed source isn't
> necessarily a bad thing for development:
>
> http://discovermagazine.com/2007/dec/long-live-closed-source-software/
>
> I think specifically using Adobe Flash as a negative
> is a bit unfair since Flash is a relatively recent
> acquisition of Adobe (they have had only one major
> boxed release of it I think?).
>
> Most of the people who work at Adobe are all about
> open source, but they feel they need to develop things
> more at their company and of course "the suits" need
> to make money.  The main reason given why they never
> wrote Photoshop for Linux is that they never felt they
> could make money off of it, which may be one reason
> why they are going with the web Photoshop project.
>
> I think a better Adobe counterexample is pdf, which
> they developed and has been a format used for almost
> forever in the linux community, and Adobe has turned
> it over to make an ISO standard.
> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7542722606.html
>
> Even before it was submitted to be an ISO standard
> there were a great deal of 3rd party apps that you
> could use for pdfs:
>
>
> http://www.cogniview.com/convert-pdf-to-excel/post/pdf-editing-creation-50-open-sourcefree-alternatives-to-adobe-acrobat/
>
> As for RealMedia . . . yeah . . . at least it is a
> voice of support for linux, albeit one I don't really
> care for.  They don't offer anything usefully
> innovative but always becomes a default standard
> because they have been around for awhile. When it
> started out it was pretty cool (for a closed-source
> product) but then it started getting bloated with ads
> and killed itself.  I would definitely be happier with
> a xiph.org alternative codec (theora).
>
> Even if RealMedia is an impending failure, at least it
> promotes more work on linux, and failures can always
> teach lessons.
>
> --- Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Rich Nagel
> > <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > > Huh?  Why?  I'd think that backing from Adobe &
> > RealNetworks would be a GOOD
> > >  thing. :/
> > >
> > >  Please explain.
> >
> > Flash and Real's video codec are two of the very few
> > pieces of closed
> > source software many people still use regularly.
> > Seeing them spread
> > is not a good thing.
> >
> > A Good ThingTM would be Adobe contributing
> > programmer time,
> > documentation, or money toward Gnash or swfdec to
> > encourage
> > interoperability and standards.  I, for one, am not
> > excited to see
> > closed, buggy, impossible to fix software spread
> > onto platforms I have
> > a chance of using.
> >
> > --tim
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> >
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com
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From topher at wcsg.org  Sat Apr  5 13:09:18 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 13:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Adobe, RealNetworks back Linux on MIDs
In-Reply-To: <15f732370804030649h2dc9ffak4dd3cd3516471684@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2c97fe9d0804021312i27bc1380y6434d002d971dcc8@mail.gmail.com>
	<415368.20347.qm@web80402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<15f732370804030649h2dc9ffak4dd3cd3516471684@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0804051308370.17190@localhost>

> Didn't Realnetworks release the helix player as OSS?


Yes, but not their streaming protocols, which makes it Just Another 
Player, and not nearly as cool as many many other players out there.

>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 9:08 AM, John Harig <radiodurans at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Presentations?  Maybe we could have a debate about the
>> benefits of closed sourced software supporting linux?
>> ;)
>>
>> I don't see anything inherently bad in it. At least it
>> shows interest in linux and helps to make linux
>> products more competitive in the market as well as
>> generating more corporate interest.
>>
>> As long as consumers can choose which programs to
>> install and uninstall, closed and open source should
>> be able to  co-exist (as long as you know the security
>> risks and bug risks).  The problem comes if you "have"
>> to run it and have no other alternative.
>>
>> Yes, Adobe Flash is by no means perfect and it allowed
>> hackers to win the Pwn to Own challenge:
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20080331/bs_nf/59043
>>
>> I am told that Ubuntu was just as vulnerable by people
>> who say they know a lot about security. But Microsoft,
>> for one reason or another, is a popular target for
>> hackers ;).
>>
>> The ideal end of any project is to become "open
>> source" (and many if not most projects should start
>> that way from the beginning), closed source isn't
>> necessarily a bad thing for development:
>>
>> http://discovermagazine.com/2007/dec/long-live-closed-source-software/
>>
>> I think specifically using Adobe Flash as a negative
>> is a bit unfair since Flash is a relatively recent
>> acquisition of Adobe (they have had only one major
>> boxed release of it I think?).
>>
>> Most of the people who work at Adobe are all about
>> open source, but they feel they need to develop things
>> more at their company and of course "the suits" need
>> to make money.  The main reason given why they never
>> wrote Photoshop for Linux is that they never felt they
>> could make money off of it, which may be one reason
>> why they are going with the web Photoshop project.
>>
>> I think a better Adobe counterexample is pdf, which
>> they developed and has been a format used for almost
>> forever in the linux community, and Adobe has turned
>> it over to make an ISO standard.
>> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7542722606.html
>>
>> Even before it was submitted to be an ISO standard
>> there were a great deal of 3rd party apps that you
>> could use for pdfs:
>>
>>
>> http://www.cogniview.com/convert-pdf-to-excel/post/pdf-editing-creation-50-open-sourcefree-alternatives-to-adobe-acrobat/
>>
>> As for RealMedia . . . yeah . . . at least it is a
>> voice of support for linux, albeit one I don't really
>> care for.  They don't offer anything usefully
>> innovative but always becomes a default standard
>> because they have been around for awhile. When it
>> started out it was pretty cool (for a closed-source
>> product) but then it started getting bloated with ads
>> and killed itself.  I would definitely be happier with
>> a xiph.org alternative codec (theora).
>>
>> Even if RealMedia is an impending failure, at least it
>> promotes more work on linux, and failures can always
>> teach lessons.
>>
>> --- Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Rich Nagel
>>> <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
>>>> Huh?  Why?  I'd think that backing from Adobe &
>>> RealNetworks would be a GOOD
>>>>  thing. :/
>>>>
>>>>  Please explain.
>>>
>>> Flash and Real's video codec are two of the very few
>>> pieces of closed
>>> source software many people still use regularly.
>>> Seeing them spread
>>> is not a good thing.
>>>
>>> A Good ThingTM would be Adobe contributing
>>> programmer time,
>>> documentation, or money toward Gnash or swfdec to
>>> encourage
>>> interoperability and standards.  I, for one, am not
>>> excited to see
>>> closed, buggy, impossible to fix software spread
>>> onto platforms I have
>>> a chance of using.
>>>
>>> --tim
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Warren
> meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
> Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
> tomewarren at gmail.com
>

From networkman at triton.net  Mon Apr  7 15:52:11 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:52:11 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday
	April 10th 6-8PM
References: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8213@NVMBX01.nvint.local>
Message-ID: <001701c898e8$df612760$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Hello GRLUG members,

Thought I'd give you all a heads-up.  I've already RSVP'd with Casey.  I'm planning to bring with me an IPAQ computer(Celeron 500 or P3-733 with 128meg ram), that we have configured to boot off of CD running Geexbox Linux.  The solution is designed to be as hands-off as possible for use by those with vision impairments. The PC connects over the internet to an audio stream provided by http://www.thesightseer.org an organization that provides a reading service to the blind and physically handicapped.  It's a non-profit and runs soley on donations -- there are no commericals in the broadcasts.  They've been broadcasting on a side-channel to fixed frequency radios in the past, but also now provide an audio stream on the web.  If you go to their web page and click on their icon it should spawn a player for the stream.

Right now, the CDRom based solution works, but I may need the group's help in making a hard drive based solution viable as well, since CDRom drives for IPAQs are somewhat difficult to obtain, cost being the most difficult hurdle.  I can explain at the meeting what we know so far and what we want to accomplish.  The solution has been promoted to several Lion's Clubs already so we're really excited to be making Linux an integral part of the solution. :)

Looking forward to seeing you all there!

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Casey DuBois 
  To: grlug at grlug.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:11 PM
  Subject: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday April 10th 6-8PM


  GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) April Meeting

  Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. 

  *Also let me know if you have any special needs (Allergies, Vegetarian, Etc.).

  Date and Time:

  Thursday April 10th

  6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

  Location:
  N-Vint, Inc.

  3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
  http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1

  Topics:

  What do we want to discuss???

  Does anyone have a presentation???

   

  Sincerely,

  Casey M. DuBois

  N-VINT, Inc.

  3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316

  616-656-5500 Office

  866-337-2686 Direct

  AOL IM: CaseyNVINT

  cdubois at n-vint.com

   

  "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems."
  -Linus Torvalds



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information that is protected under state and/or federal law. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not disseminate without permission of the author. If any person makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper authorities.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com  Mon Apr  7 16:06:07 2008
From: Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com (Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 16:06:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week
 Thursday	April 10th 6-8PM
In-Reply-To: <001701c898e8$df612760$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <OFEAC32616.DAD64363-ON85257424.006DC3AF-85257424.006E6A20@spartanstore.com>

Rich,
I'm sorry I can't make the meeting on the 10th, but I'm very interested in 
your IPAQ for the Blind project.  If you could send me any information you 
have as far as language, database, ports requirements, etc. I would 
appreciate it.  I've done some work in the '90s with a blind person who 
ran a snackbar, he's retired now, but the POS system was a super fun 
project.  I've loaded ubuntu onto an old Compaq server & that's about the 
extent of my training so far.  I plan to make it my linux/perl learning 
machine.  Please keep me in mind if you have anything a perl/linux noobie 
might be able to handle.
Thanks,
-Bill.





"Rich Nagel" <networkman at triton.net> 
Sent by: grlug-bounces at grlug.org
04/07/2008 03:52 PM
Please respond to
Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net>; Please respond to
grlug at grlug.org


To
<grlug at grlug.org>
cc
AJ <f1tz81 at gmail.com>
Subject
Re: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday April 
10th 6-8PM






Hello GRLUG members,
 
Thought I'd give you all a heads-up.  I've already RSVP'd with Casey.  I'm 
planning to bring with me an IPAQ computer(Celeron 500 or P3-733 with 
128meg ram), that we have configured to boot off of CD running Geexbox 
Linux.  The solution is designed to be as hands-off as possible for use by 
those with vision impairments. The PC connects over the internet to an 
audio stream provided by http://www.thesightseer.org an organization that 
provides a reading service to the blind and physically handicapped.  It's 
a non-profit and runs soley on donations -- there are no commericals in 
the broadcasts.  They've been broadcasting on a side-channel to fixed 
frequency radios in the past, but also now provide an audio stream on the 
web.  If you go to their web page and click on their icon it should spawn 
a player for the stream.
 
Right now, the CDRom based solution works, but I may need the group's help 
in making a hard drive based solution viable as well, since CDRom drives 
for IPAQs are somewhat difficult to obtain, cost being the most difficult 
hurdle.  I can explain at the meeting what we know so far and what we want 
to accomplish.  The solution has been promoted to several Lion's Clubs 
already so we're really excited to be making Linux an integral part of the 
solution. :)
 
Looking forward to seeing you all there!
 
Rich
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Casey DuBois 
To: grlug at grlug.org 
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:11 PM
Subject: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday 
April 10th 6-8PM

GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) April Meeting
Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make 
sure to have enough. 
*Also let me know if you have any special needs (Allergies, Vegetarian, 
Etc.).
Date and Time:
Thursday April 10th
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Location:
N-Vint, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
Topics:
What do we want to discuss???
Does anyone have a presentation???
 
Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com
 
"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems."
-Linus Torvalds

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information 
that is protected under state and/or federal law. If you received this 
message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this 
message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall 
not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of 
the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or 
damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this 
e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, 
interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you 
may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, 
please do not disseminate without permission of the author. If any person 
makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, 
that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that 
person to the proper authorities.

_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Mon Apr  7 17:30:28 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:30:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday
	April 10th 6-8PM
In-Reply-To: <OFEAC32616.DAD64363-ON85257424.006DC3AF-85257424.006E6A20@spartanstore.com>
References: <001701c898e8$df612760$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<OFEAC32616.DAD64363-ON85257424.006DC3AF-85257424.006E6A20@spartanstore.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804071430l212df822o9baafe4d13fcfdbe@mail.gmail.com>

Psst guys.....

Blind Project....

the most common people always forget...

What about Deaf & Blind?

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 4:06 PM, <Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com> wrote:

>
> Rich,
> I'm sorry I can't make the meeting on the 10th, but I'm very interested in
> your IPAQ for the Blind project.  If you could send me any information you
> have as far as language, database, ports requirements, etc. I would
> appreciate it.  I've done some work in the '90s with a blind person who ran
> a snackbar, he's retired now, but the POS system was a super fun project.
>  I've loaded ubuntu onto an old Compaq server & that's about the extent of
> my training so far.  I plan to make it my linux/perl learning machine.
>  Please keep me in mind if you have anything a perl/linux noobie might be
> able to handle.
> Thanks,
> -Bill.
>
>
>
>
>   *"Rich Nagel" <networkman at triton.net>*
> Sent by: grlug-bounces at grlug.org
>
> 04/07/2008 03:52 PM   Please respond to
> Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net>; Please respond to
> grlug at grlug.org
>
>    To
> <grlug at grlug.org>  cc
> AJ <f1tz81 at gmail.com>  Subject
> Re: [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday
>  April 10th 6-8PM
>
>
>
>
> Hello GRLUG members,
>
> Thought I'd give you all a heads-up.  I've already RSVP'd with Casey.  I'm
> planning to bring with me an IPAQ computer(Celeron 500 or P3-733 with 128meg
> ram), that we have configured to boot off of CD running Geexbox Linux.  The
> solution is designed to be as hands-off as possible for use by those with
> vision impairments. The PC connects over the internet to an audio stream
> provided by *http://www.thesightseer.org* <http://www.thesightseer.org/>an organization that provides a reading service to the blind and physically
> handicapped.  It's a non-profit and runs soley on donations -- there are no
> commericals in the broadcasts.  They've been broadcasting on a side-channel
> to fixed frequency radios in the past, but also now provide an audio stream
> on the web.  If you go to their web page and click on their icon it should
> spawn a player for the stream.
>
> Right now, the CDRom based solution works, but I may need the group's help
> in making a hard drive based solution viable as well, since CDRom drives for
> IPAQs are somewhat difficult to obtain, cost being the most difficult
> hurdle.  I can explain at the meeting what we know so far and what we want
> to accomplish.  The solution has been promoted to several Lion's Clubs
> already so we're really excited to be making Linux an integral part of the
> solution. :)
>
> Looking forward to seeing you all there!
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* *Casey DuBois* <cdubois at n-vint.com>
> *To:* *grlug at grlug.org* <grlug at grlug.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:11 PM
> *Subject:* [GRLUG] Need Topics * GRLUG April Meeting - next week Thursday
> April 10th 6-8PM
>
> *GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) April Meeting*
> Food will be provided so please RSVP to *cdubois at n-vint.com*<cdubois at n-vint.com>so I can make sure to have enough.
> *Also let me know if you have any special needs (Allergies, Vegetarian,
> Etc.).
> *Date and Time:*
> Thursday April 10th
> 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)*
>
> Location:*
> N-Vint, Inc.
> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia*
> **
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
> *<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1>
> *Topics:*
> *What do we want to discuss???*
> *Does anyone have a presentation???*
>
> Sincerely,
> *Casey M. DuBois*
> *N-VINT, Inc.*
> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
> 616-656-5500 Office
> *866-337-2686* Direct
> *AOL IM: CaseyNVINT*
> *cdubois at n-vint.com* <cdubois at n-vint.com>
>
> "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems."
> -Linus Torvalds
>
>
> ------------------------------
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information
> that is protected under state and/or federal law. If you received this
> message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this
> message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not
> be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the
> information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to
> your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been
> maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or
> interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its
> contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not
> disseminate without permission of the author. If any person makes a false or
> misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may
> have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper
> authorities.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>  _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug_______________________________________________
>
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From tobert at gmail.com  Tue Apr  8 01:50:47 2008
From: tobert at gmail.com (Al Tobey)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:50:47 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] Xen
In-Reply-To: <003a01c896d2$25b0c720$6401a8c0@710M>
References: <003a01c896d2$25b0c720$6401a8c0@710M>
Message-ID: <5ac7acb10804072250q7e867e7bof9bc9616f8858d31@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 9:04 PM, David Szostek <dave at uvhosting.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>  Consider a server with a 4TB RAID5 volume of SATA drives and a 450GB RAID 5
>  volume of 15k SCSI drives.
>
>  When creating a guest domain in Xen, we specify the main storage for it on
>  the 4TB volume when we create it.
>
>  We would also like to allow this guest domain some storage on the 450GB
>  volume.
>
>  How would this be accomplished? Anyone have any ideas? Google hasn't been
>  very helpful (though my search terms could suck too).

Sorry for the late post.   I don't follow the list very closely these
days, since I live in San Diego now ;)

I'm doing a big Xen rollout right now and for your situation, I'd
highly recommend LVM backed storage.    Put one volume group on the
4TB volume, and another on the 450GB volume.    Don't use the terrible
naming convention Fedora has by default - call them something useful
like vgxen00.

So if your 4TB drive is one LUN on /dev/sda, create one big partition
with type "Linux LVM" (8e) then:
pvcreate /dev/sda1
vgcreate vgxen00 /dev/sda1

Then you can lvcreate your VM's and do all kinds of neat stuff.
There are plenty of LVM howto's on the 'net.    virt-install also
supports LVM volumes and they're typically a bit faster than
file-backed VM's.

lvcreate -n ${vm_hostname}-disk0 -L 20G vgxen00

Good luck!
-Al Tobey

>
>  Thanks much!
>  ~dave
>
>
>  ------------------
>  Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI 49503.
>  Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website: www.unlimitedventures.com
>
>  LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From dave at unlimitedventures.com  Tue Apr  8 09:53:48 2008
From: dave at unlimitedventures.com (David Szostek)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:53:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Xen
In-Reply-To: <5ac7acb10804072250q7e867e7bof9bc9616f8858d31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00cc01c8997f$f8df4fe0$6401a8c0@710M>

Thanks Al!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org 
> [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of Al Tobey
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:51 AM
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Xen
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 9:04 PM, David Szostek 
> <dave at uvhosting.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >  Consider a server with a 4TB RAID5 volume of SATA drives 
> and a 450GB 
> > RAID 5  volume of 15k SCSI drives.
> >
> >  When creating a guest domain in Xen, we specify the main 
> storage for 
> > it on  the 4TB volume when we create it.
> >
> >  We would also like to allow this guest domain some storage on the 
> > 450GB  volume.
> >
> >  How would this be accomplished? Anyone have any ideas? 
> Google hasn't 
> > been  very helpful (though my search terms could suck too).
> 
> Sorry for the late post.   I don't follow the list very closely these
> days, since I live in San Diego now ;)
> 
> I'm doing a big Xen rollout right now and for your situation, I'd
> highly recommend LVM backed storage.    Put one volume group on the
> 4TB volume, and another on the 450GB volume.    Don't use the terrible
> naming convention Fedora has by default - call them something 
> useful like vgxen00.
> 
> So if your 4TB drive is one LUN on /dev/sda, create one big 
> partition with type "Linux LVM" (8e) then: pvcreate /dev/sda1 
> vgcreate vgxen00 /dev/sda1
> 
> Then you can lvcreate your VM's and do all kinds of neat stuff.
> There are plenty of LVM howto's on the 'net.    virt-install also
> supports LVM volumes and they're typically a bit faster than 
> file-backed VM's.
> 
> lvcreate -n ${vm_hostname}-disk0 -L 20G vgxen00
> 
> Good luck!
> -Al Tobey
> 
> >
> >  Thanks much!
> >  ~dave
> >
> >
> >  ------------------
> >  Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand 
> Rapids, MI 
> > 49503.
> >  Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website: 
> www.unlimitedventures.com
> >
> >  LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the 
> intended 
> > recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please 
> notify the 
> > sender by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, 
> delete the 
> > e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone 
> > else. Unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, 
> reliance or use 
> > is prohibited. Neither this e-mail nor its attachment(s) 
> constitute an 
> > electronic signature or provide consent to contract electronically, 
> > unless expressly so stated by an Unlimited Ventures Officer in the 
> > body of this e-mail or an attachment.
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  grlug mailing list
> >  grlug at grlug.org  
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org 
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 


------------------
Unlimited Ventures, 820 Monroe Ave NW - Suite 323, Grand Rapids, MI 49503. 
Phone: (616) 723-0098. Fax: (616) 723-0099. Website: www.unlimitedventures.com

LEGAL NOTICE:  This e-mail is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail or by calling (616) 723-0098 x 1002, delete the e-mail from your computer and do not copy or disclose it to anyone else. Unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution, reliance or use is prohibited. Neither this e-mail nor its attachment(s) constitute an electronic signature or provide consent to contract electronically, unless expressly so stated by an Unlimited Ventures Officer in the body of this e-mail or an attachment.


From cdubois at n-vint.com  Tue Apr  8 15:34:21 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:34:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] An Open Discussion of Open Source: How FREE Software Can
 Help Your Business
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B415F8ED3@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Hello GRLUG,

I thought this meeting would be of interest.

aimWest April Meeting

TOPIC:
An Open Discussion of Open Source: How FREE Software Can Help Your Business

How can free software impact your bottom line? What does "free" really mean? Explore the myths and realities of open-source software in our interactive panel discussion.

Panelists will discuss the open-source software movement and how it affects businesses in every industry. We will address the opportunities and caveats of working with these free tools, and explore some of the options to select and implement these tools.

Most importantly, we want to answer your questions! This will be an audience-led discussion, so please come prepared with your own open-source queries.

The event is free for aimWest members.  $20 for non-members (cash or check).  If you would like to register for this event, click here<mailto:meetings at aimwest.org?body=Please%20include%20name%20and%20company%20affiliation%20below...&subject=Registration%20for%20May%2030th%202008%20aimWest%20Event%20-%20Open%20Source%20Discussion>.

Date and Time:
Wednesday April 30th
Networking @ 5:30 PM
Panel Discussion @ 6:30 PM

Location:
Eberhard Center, GVSU
301 Fulton St W
Grand Rapids, MI 49504

More Details:
http://www.aimwest.org/events/index.htm

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"Real men don't use backups, they post their stuff on a public ftp server and let the rest of the world make copies."
- Linus Torvalds


________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information that is protected under state and/or federal law. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not disseminate without permission of the author. If any person makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper authorities.
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From cdubois at n-vint.com  Wed Apr  9 12:36:12 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 12:36:12 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Reminder  GRLUG April Meeting - Tomorrow,
	Thursday April 10th 6-8PM
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B4165720F@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) April Meeting
Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com> so I can make sure to have enough.
Date and Time:
Thursday April 10th
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Topics:
DEMO - www.thesightseer.org<http://www.thesightseer.org/>
I'm planning to bring with me an IPAQ computer(Celeron 500 or P3-733 with 128meg ram), that we have configured to boot off of CD running Geexbox Linux.  The solution is designed to be as hands-off as possible for use by those with vision impairments. The PC connects over the internet to an audio stream provided by http://www.thesightseer.org an organization that provides a reading service to the blind and physically handicapped.  It's a non-profit and runs soley on donations -- there are no commericals in the broadcasts.  They've been broadcasting on a side-channel to fixed frequency radios in the past, but also now provide an audio stream on the web.  If you go to their web page and click on their icon it should spawn a player for the stream.

Right now, the CDRom based solution works, but I may need the group's help in making a hard drive based solution viable as well, since CDRom drives for IPAQs are somewhat difficult to obtain, cost being the most difficult hurdle.  I can explain at the meeting what we know so far and what we want to accomplish.  The solution has been promoted to several Lion's Clubs already so we're really excited to be making Linux an integral part of the solution. :)

Debate about the benefits of closed sourced software supporting linux?

Boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick
www.pendrivelinux.com<http://www.pendrivelinux.com/>

Location:
N-Vint, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems."
-Linus Torvalds

________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information that is protected under state and/or federal law. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not disseminate without permission of the author. If any person makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper authorities.
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From verduin at ameritech.net  Wed Apr  9 12:37:39 2008
From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:37:39 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] BIND configuration for LAN
Message-ID: <1207759059.2929.419.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>

Greetings...

Is there an experienced BIND admin in GR-LUG who can take a few minutes
to "talk" to me?

Issue: I am running named on a LAN workstation, almost everything works
OK -- but I hold a public registration at no-ip.org that I have not
successfully "overridden" with a local LAN IP address only for private
machines on the LAN.  I believe the problem I can't solve relates to
forwarding a request when the local named can't find a reference in the
table.  ?An authority setting?

My workaround is to stop named while I need a no-ip IP from the public
name server.  This works, but is not a satisfactory situation.

If this sounds quickly solvable, let me know what you need to know...

THANKS!

Warmest regards from here,
George


From rick at vargo.org  Wed Apr  9 13:25:27 2008
From: rick at vargo.org (Rick Vargo)
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:25:27 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] BIND configuration for LAN
In-Reply-To: <1207759059.2929.419.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
References: <1207759059.2929.419.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
Message-ID: <47FCFC07.1000001@vargo.org>

George,

If the zone is locally defined on the machine running bind (either 
master or slave) it will not use forwarders for that domain because it 
thinks it is authoritative. You can however setup the zone in question 
to be dynamic and pull the info from no-ip using a script of sorts.

You may try adding both the local IP and the IP of no-ip's DNS servers 
to your resolv.conf file. This may or may not work. If it does there 
will be a delay as it queries named on your local box first for the IP 
address.

Rick


George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
> Greetings...
>
> Is there an experienced BIND admin in GR-LUG who can take a few minutes
> to "talk" to me?
>
> Issue: I am running named on a LAN workstation, almost everything works
> OK -- but I hold a public registration at no-ip.org that I have not
> successfully "overridden" with a local LAN IP address only for private
> machines on the LAN.  I believe the problem I can't solve relates to
> forwarding a request when the local named can't find a reference in the
> table.  ?An authority setting?
>
> My workaround is to stop named while I need a no-ip IP from the public
> name server.  This works, but is not a satisfactory situation.
>
> If this sounds quickly solvable, let me know what you need to know...
>
> THANKS!
>
> Warmest regards from here,
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   

From cdubois at n-vint.com  Wed Apr  9 13:29:23 2008
From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 13:29:23 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linux showing signs of solid growth
Message-ID: <1BAA77C18160E14CBDF66C8369EDAFDB1B41657258@NVMBX01.nvint.local>

Linux showing signs of solid growth

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/04/09/Linux-showing-signs-of-solid-growth_1.html?source=NLC-PLATFORMS&cgd=2008-04-09

Sincerely,
Casey M. DuBois
N-VINT, Inc.
3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316
616-656-5500 Office
866-337-2686 Direct
AOL IM: CaseyNVINT
cdubois at n-vint.com<mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com>

"To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."


________________________________
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential information that is protected under state and/or federal law. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender by fax or email and delete this message. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and we shall not be responsible or liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this e-mail, any delay in its receipt or damage to your systems. We do not guarantee that the integrity of this e-mail has been maintained or that this e-mail is free of viruses, interception or interference. If you properly received this message, you may use its contents only in strict accordance with our instructions, please do not disseminate without permission of the author. If any person makes a false or misleading representation to obtain customer information, that person may have committed a federal crime, and we may report that person to the proper authorities.
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From dvz at cyberatech.com  Thu Apr 10 13:21:56 2008
From: dvz at cyberatech.com (David Vander Zwaag)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:21:56 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Squid to Authenticate against Active Directory
Message-ID: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>

I have been asked to setup a Squid server for my organization.  I have squid
up and running on a Fedora Core 8 OS.  I now need to have the users
authenticate against Active Directory.  I have found some articles on the
internet, but nothing has worked yet.  Has anyone done this before, and if
so, could someone provide examples.  I am running Squid Stable 2.6.

Thanks


David Vander Zwaag

TechVZ

dvz at techvz.com
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 13:32:02 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:32:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Squid to Authenticate against Active Directory
In-Reply-To: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804101032t3a0d34b2o17d10f391e421354@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:21 PM, David Vander Zwaag <dvz at cyberatech.com> wrote:
>  [snip]

Step 1: don't send HTML mail.

--tim

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 13:39:59 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:39:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Squid to Authenticate against Active Directory
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804101032t3a0d34b2o17d10f391e421354@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804101032t3a0d34b2o17d10f391e421354@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804101039k4bf29c19s38d5b5b5efd9734f@mail.gmail.com>

*removing HTML*

I have been asked to setup a Squid server for my organization. I have squid
up and running on a Fedora Core 8 OS. I now need to have the users
authenticate against Active Directory. I have found some articles on the
internet, but nothing has worked yet. Has anyone done this before, and if
so, could someone provide examples. I am running Squid Stable 2.6.


David Vander Zwaag
TechVZ
dvz at techvz.com<dvz at techvz.com%22%3Edvz at techvz.com%3C/a%3E&nbsp;%3C/p%3E%3C/div>

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:21 PM, David Vander Zwaag <dvz at cyberatech.com>
> wrote:
> >  [snip]
>
> Step 1: don't send HTML mail.
>
> --tim
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Thu Apr 10 14:13:19 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:13:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Squid to Authenticate against Active Directory
In-Reply-To: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1207851199.23791.12.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 13:21 -0400, David Vander Zwaag wrote:
> I have been asked to setup a Squid server for my organization.  I have squid
> up and running on a Fedora Core 8 OS.  I now need to have the users
> authenticate against Active Directory.  I have found some articles on the
> internet, but nothing has worked yet.  Has anyone done this before, and if
> so, could someone provide examples.  I am running Squid Stable 2.6.
> 
> Thanks

More than likely you are running up against the differences in NT_Auth
you are finding across the internet and your admins not your AD to act
as a credentails checking server, therefore allowing "old style" auth
with out the Kerberos ticketing being active.

One way o fix this, your admins need to allow legacy authentication for
the machine in question. That machine being the FC machine.

Another way would be to install SAMBA, join it to the AD and have you
users auth against the PAM stuff using Winbind to query AD.

This means setting up a "proper" Samba server but with out any home
directory enumeration or login being allowed. It *MUST* act as only an
"auth server" for local request (local coming from Squid).

Then you must setup squid to use "localhost" PAM authentication.


There are many examples of getting Samba joined to Active Directory and
getting PAM to use Winbind as the first source (vs files/nis/ldap/etc). 

There are also examples showing how to get Squid to use PAM.

If you get PAM to work with Windbind (and hence AD) and then get Squid
to use PAM... connect the dots.

Cheers.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 14:21:56 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:21:56 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Squid to Authenticate against Active Directory
In-Reply-To: <1207851199.23791.12.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207851199.23791.12.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0804101121q798e62bcg8086c7e3cb601116@mail.gmail.com>

Would using squid_ldap_auth be a more direct approch?

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 13:21 -0400, David Vander Zwaag wrote:
>  > I have been asked to setup a Squid server for my organization.  I have squid
>  > up and running on a Fedora Core 8 OS.  I now need to have the users
>  > authenticate against Active Directory.  I have found some articles on the
>  > internet, but nothing has worked yet.  Has anyone done this before, and if
>  > so, could someone provide examples.  I am running Squid Stable 2.6.
>  >
>  > Thanks
>
>  More than likely you are running up against the differences in NT_Auth
>  you are finding across the internet and your admins not your AD to act
>  as a credentails checking server, therefore allowing "old style" auth
>  with out the Kerberos ticketing being active.
>
>  One way o fix this, your admins need to allow legacy authentication for
>  the machine in question. That machine being the FC machine.
>
>  Another way would be to install SAMBA, join it to the AD and have you
>  users auth against the PAM stuff using Winbind to query AD.
>
>  This means setting up a "proper" Samba server but with out any home
>  directory enumeration or login being allowed. It *MUST* act as only an
>  "auth server" for local request (local coming from Squid).
>
>  Then you must setup squid to use "localhost" PAM authentication.
>
>
>  There are many examples of getting Samba joined to Active Directory and
>  getting PAM to use Winbind as the first source (vs files/nis/ldap/etc).
>
>  There are also examples showing how to get Squid to use PAM.
>
>  If you get PAM to work with Windbind (and hence AD) and then get Squid
>  to use PAM... connect the dots.
>
>  Cheers.
>  --
>  greg at gregfolkert.net
>  PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
>  Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
>  Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
>  Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 15:10:43 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:10:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Network gateway - Untangle
In-Reply-To: <mailman.682.1207851058.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.682.1207851058.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <1207854643.6865.18.camel@redtop>

Has anyone checked out the new network gateway, Untangle?  It's supposed
to be a "commercial-grade open source alternative to SonicWALL and
WatchGuard."  It reminds me of Smoothwall and other projects that use
open source software, but offer a paid version with additional
features. 

The free version provides 12 Applications, software updates and
community support through their Wiki and Forums.  A list of apps
includes:  Spam Blocker - Spyware Blocker - Open VPN - Web Filter -
Phish Blocker - Attack Blocker - Protocol Control - Virus Blocker -
Untangle Reports - Intrusion Prevention - Firewall - Router

http://www.untangle.com/

There is an a free and professional version.  The professional version
is supposed to be capable of integrating with Active Directory.  I do
notice that they use snort signatures, but their own engine for IPS.  I
would prefer a snort engine.


From colin at tankrip.com  Thu Apr 10 15:58:16 2008
From: colin at tankrip.com (Colin Vallance)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:58:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Network gateway - Untangle
In-Reply-To: <1207854643.6865.18.camel@redtop>
References: <mailman.682.1207851058.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
	<1207854643.6865.18.camel@redtop>
Message-ID: <223E675E-93FD-4B25-A046-10E71D64DEA9@tankrip.com>

That looks pretty slick actually.  We have Sonicwall stuff here at  
work and I know a bit about how it can indeed be a pain.  I'm  
currently "converting" a WatchGuard box in to a firewall/router/WAP  
but that's just going to run bare bones pyramid linux.

If anyone indeed has played with untangle I'd be interested to hear  
about it as well.  Just the virus and spam blocker may be enough for  
me to give it a shot.

-Colin


On Apr 10, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote:

> Has anyone checked out the new network gateway, Untangle?  It's  
> supposed
> to be a "commercial-grade open source alternative to SonicWALL and
> WatchGuard."  It reminds me of Smoothwall and other projects that use
> open source software, but offer a paid version with additional
> features.
>
> The free version provides 12 Applications, software updates and
> community support through their Wiki and Forums.  A list of apps
> includes:  Spam Blocker - Spyware Blocker - Open VPN - Web Filter -
> Phish Blocker - Attack Blocker - Protocol Control - Virus Blocker -
> Untangle Reports - Intrusion Prevention - Firewall - Router
>
> http://www.untangle.com/
>
> There is an a free and professional version.  The professional version
> is supposed to be capable of integrating with Active Directory.  I do
> notice that they use snort signatures, but their own engine for  
> IPS.  I
> would prefer a snort engine.
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


From dond at standalelumber.com  Thu Apr 10 16:23:07 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:23:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Network gateway - Untangle
In-Reply-To: <223E675E-93FD-4B25-A046-10E71D64DEA9@tankrip.com>
References: <mailman.682.1207851058.3996.grlug@grlug.org>	
	<1207854643.6865.18.camel@redtop>	
	<223E675E-93FD-4B25-A046-10E71D64DEA9@tankrip.com>
Message-ID: <1207858987.9715.9.camel@donw-laptop>




On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 15:58 -0400, Colin Vallance wrote:
> That looks pretty slick actually.  We have Sonicwall stuff here at  
> work and I know a bit about how it can indeed be a pain.  I'm  
> currently "converting" a WatchGuard box in to a firewall/router/WAP  
> but that's just going to run bare bones pyramid linux.
> 
> If anyone indeed has played with untangle I'd be interested to hear  
> about it as well.  Just the virus and spam blocker may be enough for  
> me to give it a shot.
> 
> -Colin
> 
> 
> On Apr 10, 2008, at 3:10 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone checked out the new network gateway, Untangle?  It's  
> > supposed
> > to be a "commercial-grade open source alternative to SonicWALL and
> > WatchGuard."  It reminds me of Smoothwall and other projects that
> use
> > open source software, but offer a paid version with additional
> > features.
> >
> > The free version provides 12 Applications, software updates and
> > community support through their Wiki and Forums.  A list of apps
> > includes:  Spam Blocker - Spyware Blocker - Open VPN - Web Filter -
> > Phish Blocker - Attack Blocker - Protocol Control - Virus Blocker -
> > Untangle Reports - Intrusion Prevention - Firewall - Router
> >
> > http://www.untangle.com/
> >
> > There is an a free and professional version.  The professional
> version
> > is supposed to be capable of integrating with Active Directory.  I
> do
> > notice that they use snort signatures, but their own engine for  
> > IPS.  I
> > would prefer a snort engine.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



We use Sonicwall too and would have to pay for most of these modules.
Seems too good to be true if it works as advertised.



From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 17:08:30 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (Deepan)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:38:30 +0530
Subject: [GRLUG] Mysql connection problem
Message-ID: <b96882263ec76b280cbe60434c5de2f7@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All,
I am able to connect to Mysql via command line
using mysql client. I am also able to connect to
mysql via php if I run those php programs via
command line. However when I hit those php pages
via the browser it throws the error Can't connect
to local MySQL server through socket
'/tmp/mysql.sock' (2). Please note that this is
the same socket the mysql client tries to connect
to the server.
Regards 
Deepan 
Sudoku Solver: http://www.sudoku-solver.net/ 



From topher at wcsg.org  Thu Apr 10 17:35:27 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:35:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Mysql connection problem
In-Reply-To: <b96882263ec76b280cbe60434c5de2f7@localhost.localdomain>
References: <b96882263ec76b280cbe60434c5de2f7@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.82.0804101735040.17190@localhost>

> I am able to connect to Mysql via command line using mysql client. I am 
> also able to connect to mysql via php if I run those php programs via 
> command line. However when I hit those php pages via the browser it 
> throws the error Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket 
> '/tmp/mysql.sock' (2). Please note that this is the same socket the 
> mysql client tries to connect to the server.

In your php, are you using localhost as the hostname, or an actual 
hostname?

From geektoyz at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 17:42:50 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:42:50 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] BIND configuration for LAN
In-Reply-To: <47FCFC07.1000001@vargo.org>
References: <1207759059.2929.419.camel@tango.gfvhome.org>
	<47FCFC07.1000001@vargo.org>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10804101442o13845cc8wead6dee6730013ec@mail.gmail.com>

George, I think Rick's on the money there...  I run BIND to resolve an
internal LAN, but have a zone defined for a particular domain (not
owned by us and totally unrelated).  While inside our network, you can
type "http://box1.notmine.com" and are directed to a local box serving
that domain.

While outside, "http://box1.notmine.com" likely doesn't exist, but
"http://www.notmine.com" surely does and takes you to their site.  I
guess the drawback to that approach is that we'll never see the actual
site from inside our LAN.  ;-)

So, define a "no-ip.org" zone for BIND in your local LAN and forward
for anything else to your ISP.

Excerpt from /etc/bind/named.conf.options  {in debian}:
 forwarders {
        208.67.222.222;
 };

Excerpt from /etc/bin/named.conf.local {in debian}:
zone "notmine.com" {
        type master;
        file "/etc/bind/zone.notmine.com";
};

zone "38.168.192.in-addr.arpa" {
        type master;
        file "/etc/bind/192.168.38.rev";
};

//--- Disable logging of "lame servers"
logging {
category lame-servers { null; };

};


cheers,
G-



On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Rick Vargo <rick at vargo.org> wrote:
> George,
>
>  If the zone is locally defined on the machine running bind (either
>  master or slave) it will not use forwarders for that domain because it
>  thinks it is authoritative. You can however setup the zone in question
>  to be dynamic and pull the info from no-ip using a script of sorts.
>
>  You may try adding both the local IP and the IP of no-ip's DNS servers
>  to your resolv.conf file. This may or may not work. If it does there
>  will be a delay as it queries named on your local box first for the IP
>  address.
>
>  Rick
>
>
>
>
>  George (Skip) VerDuin wrote:
>  > Greetings...
>  >
>  > Is there an experienced BIND admin in GR-LUG who can take a few minutes
>  > to "talk" to me?
>  >
>  > Issue: I am running named on a LAN workstation, almost everything works
>  > OK -- but I hold a public registration at no-ip.org that I have not
>  > successfully "overridden" with a local LAN IP address only for private
>  > machines on the LAN.  I believe the problem I can't solve relates to
>  > forwarding a request when the local named can't find a reference in the
>  > table.  ?An authority setting?
>  >
>  > My workaround is to stop named while I need a no-ip IP from the public
>  > name server.  This works, but is not a satisfactory situation.
>  >
>  > If this sounds quickly solvable, let me know what you need to know...
>  >
>  > THANKS!
>  >
>  > Warmest regards from here,
>  > George
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From greg at gregfolkert.net  Thu Apr 10 18:05:39 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:05:39 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Squid to Authenticate against Active Directory
In-Reply-To: <cea1322a0804101121q798e62bcg8086c7e3cb601116@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
	<1207851199.23791.12.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<cea1322a0804101121q798e62bcg8086c7e3cb601116@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1207865139.23791.20.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 14:21 -0400, Joe Vanderstelt wrote:
> Would using squid_ldap_auth be a more direct approch?

Not really, as Micrsoft's Active directory cannot expose everything you
need to do it properly, plus the SSL/TLS certs business end will get
mighty tediuos rather quickly as Microsoft's implementation REALLY
*REALLY* hates self-signed certs.

You might get it to work, but as soon as you update your AD servers (in
Peer mode, right? not Primary/secondary) it'll break anything with
self-signed certs and you'll have to force it to re-accept them.

But, in the long run, you'll have better luck, keeping up with Samba and
Microsoft, vs Microsoft and keeping the LDAP stuff working.

> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2008-04-10 at 13:21 -0400, David Vander Zwaag wrote:
> >  > I have been asked to setup a Squid server for my organization.  I have squid
> >  > up and running on a Fedora Core 8 OS.  I now need to have the users
> >  > authenticate against Active Directory.  I have found some articles on the
> >  > internet, but nothing has worked yet.  Has anyone done this before, and if
> >  > so, could someone provide examples.  I am running Squid Stable 2.6.
> >  >
> >  > Thanks
> >
> >  More than likely you are running up against the differences in NT_Auth
> >  you are finding across the internet and your admins not your AD to act
> >  as a credentails checking server, therefore allowing "old style" auth
> >  with out the Kerberos ticketing being active.
[snip]
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From blubdog at gmail.com  Thu Apr 10 19:17:44 2008
From: blubdog at gmail.com (Bruce Smith)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:17:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Squid to Authenticate against Active Directory
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804101039k4bf29c19s38d5b5b5efd9734f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b8ea32850804101021y7ba3b5f9r83999b7ce7938f97@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804101032t3a0d34b2o17d10f391e421354@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804101039k4bf29c19s38d5b5b5efd9734f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b52f2d360804101617i319f10d7ve0b9b2105dac5800@mail.gmail.com>

> I have been asked to setup a Squid server for my organization. I have squid
> up and running on a Fedora Core 8 OS. I now need to have the users
> authenticate against Active Directory. I have found some articles on the
> internet, but nothing has worked yet. Has anyone done this before, and if
> so, could someone provide examples. I am running Squid Stable 2.6.

I just got it working at my workplace.

With AD you cannot browse anonymously, so in the example below, I
authenticate as "AD User" with password "adpasswd" as a user in AD
who's pw never expires. (names & pw changed to protect my security :)

auth_param basic program /usr/sbin/squid_ldap_auth
 -P -R -b "CN=Users,DC=domain,DC=com"
 -D "CN=AD User,CN=Users,DC=domain,DC=com"
 -f "(&(sAMAccountName=%s)(objectClass=Person)(memberOf=CN=Internet,CN=Users,DC=domain,DC=com))"
 -w "adpasswd" adserver.domain.com

(all one long line, not broken up like I did for this posting)

This also only allows users who are a member of the group "Internet",
so you can select who can and who can't surf.

 - BS

From casey at grlug.org  Fri Apr 11 12:08:17 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:08:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Meetings
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804110908j65d834a2t101ae8a0faf31cef@mail.gmail.com>

Hello GRLUG,

I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that attended last night's meeting
and helped get the IPAQ/GeexBox install working for
www.thesightseer.org.

Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting on May 15th.

Topics will be:
Debate about the benefits of closed sourced software supporting linux? (Tim)
Boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick -
www.pendrivelinux.com - bring in a USB flash drives with your favorite
Linux distro.
gOS

Regards,

Casey at grlug.org

From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 11 18:51:47 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Meetings
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804110908j65d834a2t101ae8a0faf31cef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I just wanted to second that . . . given the very
limited resources (no vi???!!!) it was an awesome job.
 I learned a lot just watching.  Next time maybe next
time we can see try it with sed? :)


--- Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

> Hello GRLUG,
> 
> I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that attended
> last night's meeting
> and helped get the IPAQ/GeexBox install working for
> www.thesightseer.org.
> 
> Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting on
> May 15th.
> 
> Topics will be:
> Debate about the benefits of closed sourced software
> supporting linux? (Tim)
> Boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick -
> www.pendrivelinux.com - bring in a USB flash drives
> with your favorite
> Linux distro.
> gOS
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 


From slestak989 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 11 19:06:04 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:06:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Meetings
In-Reply-To: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47FFEEDC.10905@gmail.com>

I wasn't at the meeting, but am very interested in the geexbox/sightseer 
project.  What was that?

Regards,

Steve R

From networkman at triton.net  Fri Apr 11 20:45:02 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (networkman at triton.net)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:45:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Meetings
In-Reply-To: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2103.69.11.205.103.1207961102.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>

Hello all,

Yes, I just wanted to say "Many thanks!" to all who participated and tried
their best to make the CD-to-HD conversion work.  I guess sometimes that
last 5 percent really is more problematic than the previous 95 percent!!

Great bunch of guys - loved the can-do attitude and teamwork!  I'm looking
forward to the next meeting!  Do you want me to try bring an easier
problem? :P

Rich



> I just wanted to second that . . . given the very
> limited resources (no vi???!!!) it was an awesome job.
>  I learned a lot just watching.  Next time maybe next
> time we can see try it with sed? :)
>
>
> --- Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello GRLUG,
>>
>> I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that attended
>> last night's meeting
>> and helped get the IPAQ/GeexBox install working for
>> www.thesightseer.org.
>>
>> Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting on
>> May 15th.
>>
>> Topics will be:
>> Debate about the benefits of closed sourced software
>> supporting linux? (Tim)
>> Boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick -
>> www.pendrivelinux.com - bring in a USB flash drives
>> with your favorite
>> Linux distro.
>> gOS
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Casey at grlug.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>>
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>



From greg at gregfolkert.net  Fri Apr 11 23:01:51 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:01:51 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Meetings
In-Reply-To: <2103.69.11.205.103.1207961102.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
References: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2103.69.11.205.103.1207961102.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
Message-ID: <1207969311.23791.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Fri, 2008-04-11 at 20:45 -0400, networkman at triton.net wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Yes, I just wanted to say "Many thanks!" to all who participated and tried
> their best to make the CD-to-HD conversion work.  I guess sometimes that
> last 5 percent really is more problematic than the previous 95 percent!!
> 
> Great bunch of guys - loved the can-do attitude and teamwork!  I'm looking
> forward to the next meeting!  Do you want me to try bring an easier
> problem? :P


As the saying goes (some what paraphrased): 
	Given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.

-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From networkman at triton.net  Mon Apr 14 19:09:29 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:09:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG]  Question of how to copy 20 Gig HD to smaller HD?
Message-ID: <003001c89e84$98139130$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Greetings once again!

Where to start..?  Okay, here's what I know:  I don't understand what the process was to get necessary files copied onto the hard drive for the whole IPAQ/SightSeer project, but I know it's working on the one hard drive in the IPAQ.  So, what I attempted to do was to take an image of the drive so as to restore that to another hard drive.  Unfortunately, Symantec Ghost 8.0(Win32), with which I'm quite familiar doesn't work on the restoration part even though it's supposed to support ext2 & ext3.  What I get is gobbledy-gook that doesn't work.  Have also tried G4L and DD, both of which also seem to image fine but can't restore to another drive, even one the same size or larger. :(

Taking another tack, I ran across this nifty System Rescue CD located here: http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page which amoung other things has a utility called GPartEd - pretty cool actually.  Throwing caution to the wind, I managed to make a copy of the partition from the 20 Gig HD onto a 30 Gig HD that I had sitting around; doing so was successful, until I found I couldn't boot off the 30 Gig. Grr...  Thinking back to my DOS days, I remembered that partitions needed to be "Active" in order to boot, so I checked the "Flag" for the drive and found it wasn't set to "Boot" - checkmark on that - problem solved!  Working 30 Gig HD. :)

Okay, so now I've got a duplicate which is a big step forward!!  Next item: how to get it on a smaller hard drive?  Well, I found that GPartEd allows me to shrink partitions so I found I could shrink it down to around 572 meg and it would still work; going under about 540 meg(or roughly 512 multiplied out) gave me some "geometry errors", so I just left it at about 572 meg.  One would think I could then copy onto a smaller HD?  Wrong!!  Have tried a 4 gig, 8 gig, 10 gig, 15 gig - nothing works!  Ideally, I'd like to place this sucker on a 2 Gig drive, as that would allow me the greatest flexibility.  Any ideas?

By the way, I tried Acronis True Image (Echo Workstation) Trial, but apparently the "fully operational" version which lasts for 15 days doesn't bother mentioning that that's only inside of Windows!!   I'd created the bootable CD and it was ready to clone the 30 Gig onto a 4 Gig before reporting that issue.  Grrrr....  There's gonna be a heated note to Acronis about that one!

So I'm open to ideas.  Anyone?

Rich


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From networkman at triton.net  Mon Apr 14 19:38:03 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:38:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Question of how to copy 20 Gig HD to smaller HD?
References: <003001c89e84$98139130$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <005601c89e88$95d3b680$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Yeah, now I'm replying to my own post because I have something to add that I don't completely understand.

For some reason, I began to think that there might be some hidden boot block or something that might not get included in the partition copying, so I figured what the heck?!  Why not try out a crazy idea - nothing else has worked!  So what I did was I used the original Sight Seer CD to install Geexbox 1.0 onto the 4 gig hard drive, partitioning it to just 600 meg, and let it do the install.  Did a test boot - booted as expected(without the auto-play).  Then I took the hd out and slaved it to the 30 Gig hd in another system, ran the GPartEd util and copied the partition from the 30 Gig onto the 4 gig hd (WITHOUT first deleting the existing 600meg partition on the 4 gig hd).  Everything copied fine, and I put the 4 Gig hd in the IPAQ -- and viola! it's booting and running perfectly.  Question now is: why?!?  :/

Rich

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rich Nagel 
  To: grlug at grlug.org 
  Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 7:09 PM
  Subject: [GRLUG] Question of how to copy 20 Gig HD to smaller HD?


  Greetings once again!

  Where to start..?  Okay, here's what I know:  I don't understand what the process was to get necessary files copied onto the hard drive for the whole IPAQ/SightSeer project, but I know it's working on the one hard drive in the IPAQ.  So, what I attempted to do was to take an image of the drive so as to restore that to another hard drive.  Unfortunately, Symantec Ghost 8.0(Win32), with which I'm quite familiar doesn't work on the restoration part even though it's supposed to support ext2 & ext3.  What I get is gobbledy-gook that doesn't work.  Have also tried G4L and DD, both of which also seem to image fine but can't restore to another drive, even one the same size or larger. :(

  Taking another tack, I ran across this nifty System Rescue CD located here: http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page which amoung other things has a utility called GPartEd - pretty cool actually.  Throwing caution to the wind, I managed to make a copy of the partition from the 20 Gig HD onto a 30 Gig HD that I had sitting around; doing so was successful, until I found I couldn't boot off the 30 Gig. Grr...  Thinking back to my DOS days, I remembered that partitions needed to be "Active" in order to boot, so I checked the "Flag" for the drive and found it wasn't set to "Boot" - checkmark on that - problem solved!  Working 30 Gig HD. :)

  Okay, so now I've got a duplicate which is a big step forward!!  Next item: how to get it on a smaller hard drive?  Well, I found that GPartEd allows me to shrink partitions so I found I could shrink it down to around 572 meg and it would still work; going under about 540 meg(or roughly 512 multiplied out) gave me some "geometry errors", so I just left it at about 572 meg.  One would think I could then copy onto a smaller HD?  Wrong!!  Have tried a 4 gig, 8 gig, 10 gig, 15 gig - nothing works!  Ideally, I'd like to place this sucker on a 2 Gig drive, as that would allow me the greatest flexibility.  Any ideas?

  By the way, I tried Acronis True Image (Echo Workstation) Trial, but apparently the "fully operational" version which lasts for 15 days doesn't bother mentioning that that's only inside of Windows!!   I'd created the bootable CD and it was ready to clone the 30 Gig onto a 4 Gig before reporting that issue.  Grrrr....  There's gonna be a heated note to Acronis about that one!

  So I'm open to ideas.  Anyone?

  Rich





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  grlug mailing list
  grlug at grlug.org
  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Mon Apr 14 21:41:57 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:41:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Question of how to copy 20 Gig HD to smaller HD?
In-Reply-To: <005601c89e88$95d3b680$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <003001c89e84$98139130$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<005601c89e88$95d3b680$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450804141841o6ee625a7w289c190d5de04f80@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> Yeah, now I'm replying to my own post because I have something to add that I
> don't completely understand.
>
> For some reason, I began to think that there might be some hidden boot block
> or something that might not get included in the partition copying, so I
> figured what the heck?!  Why not try out a crazy idea - nothing else has
> worked!  So what I did was I used the original Sight Seer CD to install
> Geexbox 1.0 onto the 4 gig hard drive, partitioning it to just 600 meg, and
> let it do the install.  Did a test boot - booted as expected(without the
> auto-play).  Then I took the hd out and slaved it to the 30 Gig hd in
> another system, ran the GPartEd util and copied the partition from the 30
> Gig onto the 4 gig hd (WITHOUT first deleting the existing 600meg partition
> on the 4 gig hd).  Everything copied fine, and I put the 4 Gig hd in the
> IPAQ -- and viola! it's booting and running perfectly.  Question now is:
> why?!?  :/

Your suspicion was on the nose.  On IBM systems, there are at least
two pieces of data that exist at the beginning of the hard disk, prior
to any partition: The boot sector and partition table.  Without usable
data (i.e. a working bootloader) on the boot sector, the computer
won't be able to boot your OS.

-- 
:wq

From grlugcasey at gmail.com  Mon Apr 14 09:55:33 2008
From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:55:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Meetings
In-Reply-To: <47FFEEDC.10905@gmail.com>
References: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47FFEEDC.10905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804140655q771fa1f6n557334aaa7b2a69b@mail.gmail.com>

The geexbox/sightseer project is:

www.thesightseer.org

An IPAQ computer(Celeron 500 or P3-733 with 128meg ram), that was have
configured to boot off of CD running Geexbox Linux.
The solution is designed to be as hands-off as possible for use by
those with vision impairments. The PC connects over the internet to an
audio stream provided by http://www.thesightseer.org an organization
that provides a reading service to the blind and physically
handicapped.  It's a non-profit and runs soley on donations -- there
are no commericals in the broadcasts.  They've been broadcasting on a
side-channel to fixed frequency radios in the past, but also now
provide an audio stream on the web.  If you go to their web page and
click on their icon it should spawn a player for the stream.

They had the CDrom solution working but asked the GRLUG to help make a
HDD version of the solution work. It took the group a while as we did
not have the right tools but we managed to get it working.

Casey



On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wasn't at the meeting, but am very interested in the geexbox/sightseer
> project.  What was that?
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve R
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From grlugcasey at gmail.com  Mon Apr 14 10:00:16 2008
From: grlugcasey at gmail.com (Casey DuBois)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:00:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG Meetings
In-Reply-To: <2103.69.11.205.103.1207961102.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
References: <142176.90796.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<2103.69.11.205.103.1207961102.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804140700m235382can650533ea79dd767a@mail.gmail.com>

My thoughts for version 2 would be to record the live stream for
listening whenever the user wants.
Kind of like TIVO for the audio stream.
Any thoughts?
Casey

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:45 PM,  <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Yes, I just wanted to say "Many thanks!" to all who participated and tried
> their best to make the CD-to-HD conversion work.  I guess sometimes that
> last 5 percent really is more problematic than the previous 95 percent!!
>
> Great bunch of guys - loved the can-do attitude and teamwork!  I'm looking
> forward to the next meeting!  Do you want me to try bring an easier
> problem? :P
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
> > I just wanted to second that . . . given the very
> > limited resources (no vi???!!!) it was an awesome job.
> >  I learned a lot just watching.  Next time maybe next
> > time we can see try it with sed? :)
> >
> >
> > --- Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello GRLUG,
> >>
> >> I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that attended
> >> last night's meeting
> >> and helped get the IPAQ/GeexBox install working for
> >> www.thesightseer.org.
> >>
> >> Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting on
> >> May 15th.
> >>
> >> Topics will be:
> >> Debate about the benefits of closed sourced software
> >> supporting linux? (Tim)
> >> Boot and run Linux from a USB flash memory stick -
> >> www.pendrivelinux.com - bring in a USB flash drives
> >> with your favorite
> >> Linux distro.
> >> gOS
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Casey at grlug.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >>
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From casey at grlug.org  Tue Apr 15 11:11:54 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:11:54 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Question of how to copy 20 Gig HD to smaller HD?
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450804141841o6ee625a7w289c190d5de04f80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003001c89e84$98139130$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<005601c89e88$95d3b680$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<f5e00c450804141841o6ee625a7w289c190d5de04f80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804150811s6fe7bdb5p759586c5b9bdc8b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:38 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > Yeah, now I'm replying to my own post because I have something to add that I
> > don't completely understand.
> >
> > For some reason, I began to think that there might be some hidden boot block
> > or something that might not get included in the partition copying, so I
> > figured what the heck?!  Why not try out a crazy idea - nothing else has
> > worked!  So what I did was I used the original Sight Seer CD to install
> > Geexbox 1.0 onto the 4 gig hard drive, partitioning it to just 600 meg, and
> > let it do the install.  Did a test boot - booted as expected(without the
> > auto-play).  Then I took the hd out and slaved it to the 30 Gig hd in
> > another system, ran the GPartEd util and copied the partition from the 30
> > Gig onto the 4 gig hd (WITHOUT first deleting the existing 600meg partition
> > on the 4 gig hd).  Everything copied fine, and I put the 4 Gig hd in the
> > IPAQ -- and viola! it's booting and running perfectly.  Question now is:
> > why?!?  :/
>
> Your suspicion was on the nose.  On IBM systems, there are at least
> two pieces of data that exist at the beginning of the hard disk, prior
> to any partition: The boot sector and partition table.  Without usable
> data (i.e. a working bootloader) on the boot sector, the computer
> won't be able to boot your OS.
>
> --
Wouldn't formating the drive first eliminate this issue?
Casey

From mikemol at gmail.com  Tue Apr 15 11:36:34 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:36:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Question of how to copy 20 Gig HD to smaller HD?
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804150811s6fe7bdb5p759586c5b9bdc8b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <003001c89e84$98139130$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<005601c89e88$95d3b680$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<f5e00c450804141841o6ee625a7w289c190d5de04f80@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0ffba670804150811s6fe7bdb5p759586c5b9bdc8b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450804150836x631365c5i47525b7f459a6e38@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>  Wouldn't formating the drive first eliminate this issue?
>  Casey

Formatting only affects individual partitions.  Repartitioning
rewrites the partition table, but you're still not touching that boot
sector.

-- 
:wq

From casey at grlug.org  Wed Apr 16 10:58:46 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:58:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>

Hello GRLUG,

I have setup a GRLUG group on LinkedIn and wanted to let everyone know.

If you are already using LinkedIn please add this group to your profile.

If you are NOT using LinkedIn check it out @ www.linkedin.com.

Please contact me with any questions.

Regards,

Casey

From ben at eavey.com  Wed Apr 16 11:15:38 2008
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:15:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4806181A.6010300@eavey.com>

Done.

-Ben


Casey DuBois wrote:
> Hello GRLUG,
> 
> I have setup a GRLUG group on LinkedIn and wanted to let everyone know.
> 
> If you are already using LinkedIn please add this group to your profile.
> 
> If you are NOT using LinkedIn check it out @ www.linkedin.com.
> 
> Please contact me with any questions.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Casey

From casey at grlug.org  Wed Apr 16 13:30:57 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:30:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Joining the GRLUG group on LinkedIn
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804161030m655ca033i4c19bafcbef4bde0@mail.gmail.com>

Directions for joining the GRLUG group on LinkedIn.

If there are groups you wish to join, you may click on the group logo
from the profile of a group member and request to join.

Aparently I need to authorize new members and will get these done ASAP.

Casey

From networkman at triton.net  Wed Apr 16 14:16:13 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:16:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000601c89fed$f4b81770$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Done using the same email address as here. :)

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Casey DuBois" <casey at grlug.org>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:58 AM
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn


> Hello GRLUG,
> 
> I have setup a GRLUG group on LinkedIn and wanted to let everyone know.
> 
> If you are already using LinkedIn please add this group to your profile.
> 
> If you are NOT using LinkedIn check it out @ www.linkedin.com.
> 
> Please contact me with any questions.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
>

From tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 16 14:41:58 2008
From: tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:41:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <000601c89fed$f4b81770$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
	<000601c89fed$f4b81770$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <15f732370804161141p141b3666n1cc0d2f75d235cbb@mail.gmail.com>

Same here, email is minus the grlug filter I have for Gmail however.

Tom

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:

> Done using the same email address as here. :)
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Casey DuBois" <casey at grlug.org>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:58 AM
> Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
>
>
> > Hello GRLUG,
> >
> > I have setup a GRLUG group on LinkedIn and wanted to let everyone know.
> >
> > If you are already using LinkedIn please add this group to your profile.
> >
> > If you are NOT using LinkedIn check it out @ www.linkedin.com.
> >
> > Please contact me with any questions.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Casey
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com
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From rickwz8n at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 17 04:47:42 2008
From: rickwz8n at yahoo.com (Richard Mark)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
Message-ID: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

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From jtr at jrichards.org  Thu Apr 17 08:52:57 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:52:57 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080417125257.GA22540@jrichards.org>

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 01:47:42AM -0700, Richard Mark wrote:
> <table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' border='0' ><tr><td style='font: inherit;'><P>No thanks, I receive enough junk E-Mail now.</P>
> <P>&nbsp;</P>
> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rick</P>
> <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Manistee</P></td></tr></table><br>
> 
>       <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a>

It is not often that mutt (being the console mail client I prefer) is
unable to render an HTML email, but, wow.  What is this?
-- 
john-thomas
------
Selfish, adj. Devoid of consideration for the selfishness of others.
Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914), [The Devil's Dictionary, 1906]

From ben at eavey.com  Thu Apr 17 11:18:52 2008
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:18:52 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>

> No thanks, I receive enough junk E-Mail now.

I hadn't thought about this before, but now that you mention it, I don't 
think I've ever received any kind of junk mail from LinkedIn.  Ever.

When you join a LinkedIn group, the only people who have access to your 
contact information are other members of the group.  Pretty safe with 
this bunch, I think.

-Ben

From Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com  Thu Apr 17 11:25:37 2008
From: Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com (Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:25:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <OF0D9867DC.80303C2B-ON8525742E.005491AB-8525742E.0054BB33@spartanstore.com>

Not sure about linkedin - I've just now signed up, but since joining 
GRLUG, I've gotten TWO of every email that GRLUG has sent out.  ;-)




Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> 
Sent by: grlug-bounces at grlug.org
04/17/2008 11:18 AM
Please respond to
grlug at grlug.org


To
rickwz8n at yahoo.com, grlug at grlug.org
cc

Subject
Re: [GRLUG] Linkedin






> No thanks, I receive enough junk E-Mail now.

I hadn't thought about this before, but now that you mention it, I don't 
think I've ever received any kind of junk mail from LinkedIn.  Ever.

When you join a LinkedIn group, the only people who have access to your 
contact information are other members of the group.  Pretty safe with 
this bunch, I think.

-Ben
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

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From casey at grlug.org  Thu Apr 17 11:28:50 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:28:50 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>
References: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804170828r134ed4d6sb7b8be401c1c23b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:
> > No thanks, I receive enough junk E-Mail now.
>
> I hadn't thought about this before, but now that you mention it, I don't
> think I've ever received any kind of junk mail from LinkedIn.  Ever.
>
> When you join a LinkedIn group, the only people who have access to your
> contact information are other members of the group.  Pretty safe with
> this bunch, I think.
>
> -Ben
>

The only people that can access your information are your connections.
I cannot access emails for any group members that I am not directly
connected with.

I have my yahoo email posted on my profile and the only emails I have
received are job offers.
NEVER any spam.

Casey

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 17 11:30:04 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:30:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <OF0D9867DC.80303C2B-ON8525742E.005491AB-8525742E.0054BB33@spartanstore.com>
References: <OF0D9867DC.80303C2B-ON8525742E.005491AB-8525742E.0054BB33@spartanstore.com>
Message-ID: <48076CFC.7090001@gmail.com>

Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com wrote:
> 
> Not sure about linkedin - I've just now signed up, but since joining 
> GRLUG, I've gotten TWO of every email that GRLUG has sent out.  ;-)
> 
>
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
what is grlug-bounces at grlug.org?

From networkman at triton.net  Thu Apr 17 11:41:25 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:41:25 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
References: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <003001c8a0a1$7eeb5570$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

So far I've not rec'd any duplicate messages nor any other emails in the way 
of SPAM, but one thing I did when I signed up was to un-check most of the 
boxes for alerts about jobs and offers and such.  I can always choose to 
open that up later if I so desire, but being new to "LinkedIn", I'd like to 
get a general feel of the system first.

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Benjamin Eavey" <ben at eavey.com>
To: <rickwz8n at yahoo.com>; <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Linkedin


>> No thanks, I receive enough junk E-Mail now.
>
> I hadn't thought about this before, but now that you mention it, I don't
> think I've ever received any kind of junk mail from LinkedIn.  Ever.
>
> When you join a LinkedIn group, the only people who have access to your
> contact information are other members of the group.  Pretty safe with
> this bunch, I think.
>
> -Ben
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> 


From ben at eavey.com  Thu Apr 17 11:51:09 2008
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:51:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804170828r134ed4d6sb7b8be401c1c23b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>
	<f0ffba670804170828r134ed4d6sb7b8be401c1c23b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <480771ED.20104@eavey.com>

> The only people that can access your information are your connections.
> I cannot access emails for any group members that I am not directly
> connected with.

Hmmm, you're right.  Did they change something?  Seems like it used to 
be that when you joined a group, you were automatically connected to 
everyone in the group.  They wouldn't show up in your contacts, but you 
could see all their info.

Or it's possible I'm remembering incorrectly.

Actually, knowing my brain, it's more "probable" than "possible"...  :-)

-Ben


From mailtonick at gmail.com  Thu Apr 17 12:14:40 2008
From: mailtonick at gmail.com (Nikhil Suravaram)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:14:40 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>
References: <254349.65647.qm@web50102.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<48076A5C.6010804@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <30bcf8860804170914w7262d0acr5a9cf101ca04ffb0@mail.gmail.com>

I don't get junk mail from Linked In. They limit it to requests and updates
to contacts, about once a month.

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:

> > No thanks, I receive enough junk E-Mail now.
>
> I hadn't thought about this before, but now that you mention it, I don't
> think I've ever received any kind of junk mail from LinkedIn.  Ever.
>
> When you join a LinkedIn group, the only people who have access to your
> contact information are other members of the group.  Pretty safe with
> this bunch, I think.
>
> -Ben
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From geektoyz at gmail.com  Thu Apr 17 18:30:33 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:30:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <48076CFC.7090001@gmail.com>
References: <OF0D9867DC.80303C2B-ON8525742E.005491AB-8525742E.0054BB33@spartanstore.com>
	<48076CFC.7090001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10804171530u359f5ea3t4389a76fca7e7697@mail.gmail.com>

"grlug-bounces at grlug.org" is part of the mailing list management
routines.  It handles excessive bounces and such (like if your email
no longer exists).

Bill, I looked at your settings and the only dups you should be
getting are ones you send.  Do you have more than one email address
subscribed?

G-


On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com wrote:
>  >
>  > Not sure about linkedin - I've just now signed up, but since joining
>  > GRLUG, I've gotten TWO of every email that GRLUG has sent out.  ;-)
>  >
>  >
>
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  what is grlug-bounces at grlug.org?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com  Thu Apr 17 19:56:25 2008
From: Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com (Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:56:25 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Linkedin
In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10804171530u359f5ea3t4389a76fca7e7697@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFAC97D33E.A64ACA4F-ON8525742E.0082DEE0-8525742E.00837E87@spartanstore.com>

No, I only have this email defined, but it looks like I get one from a 
member & then a duplicate from grlug.
I can't forward a sample since I've deleted the duplicates, but I'll try 
to save the next pair.
Thanks,
-Bill.




Godwin <geektoyz at gmail.com> 
Sent by: grlug-bounces at grlug.org
04/17/2008 06:30 PM
Please respond to
grlug at grlug.org


To
grlug at grlug.org
cc

Subject
Re: [GRLUG] Linkedin






"grlug-bounces at grlug.org" is part of the mailing list management
routines.  It handles excessive bounces and such (like if your email
no longer exists).

Bill, I looked at your settings and the only dups you should be
getting are ones you send.  Do you have more than one email address
subscribed?

G-


On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Steve Romanow <slestak989 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> Bill_Raterink at spartanstores.com wrote:
>  >
>  > Not sure about linkedin - I've just now signed up, but since joining
>  > GRLUG, I've gotten TWO of every email that GRLUG has sent out.  ;-)
>  >
>  >
>
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  what is grlug-bounces at grlug.org?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

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From colin at tankrip.com  Fri Apr 18 14:06:38 2008
From: colin at tankrip.com (colin at tankrip.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:06:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
Message-ID: <20080418140638.6bxl71feic00w84g@webmail.tankrip.com>

I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to  
get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots  
anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.   
Anyone interested in a freebie?

-Colin

(I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)


From networkman at triton.net  Fri Apr 18 15:39:11 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:39:11 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
References: <20080418140638.6bxl71feic00w84g@webmail.tankrip.com>
Message-ID: <007101c8a18b$e109efb0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

As long as Colin is giving stuff away..

I have a Watchguard Firebox II available - status unknown - it seems to 
power up okay.   I understand there was some interest in the group to 
re-work one to use Linux, so it's available if someone wants it. :)

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <colin at tankrip.com>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware


> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to
> get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots
> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
> Anyone interested in a freebie?
>
> -Colin
>
> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> 


From colin at tankrip.com  Fri Apr 18 16:42:18 2008
From: colin at tankrip.com (Colin Vallance)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:42:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
In-Reply-To: <007101c8a18b$e109efb0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <20080418140638.6bxl71feic00w84g@webmail.tankrip.com>
	<007101c8a18b$e109efb0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <9902B6DB-EF0B-4891-B7C5-0CB0AB946373@tankrip.com>

Rich,

Want to trade ;)

I've got a Firebox 700 that i'm currently working on getting pyramid  
linux on.  I've heard people on the DDWRT forum that are working with  
the II and III with some degree of success.  I'm certainly interested  
if nobody else is.


On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Rich Nagel wrote:

> As long as Colin is giving stuff away..
>
> I have a Watchguard Firebox II available - status unknown - it seems  
> to
> power up okay.   I understand there was some interest in the group to
> re-work one to use Linux, so it's available if someone wants it. :)
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <colin at tankrip.com>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
> Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
>
>
>> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to
>> get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots
>> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
>> Anyone interested in a freebie?
>>
>> -Colin
>>
>> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


From networkman at triton.net  Fri Apr 18 17:10:13 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:10:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
References: <20080418140638.6bxl71feic00w84g@webmail.tankrip.com><007101c8a18b$e109efb0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<9902B6DB-EF0B-4891-B7C5-0CB0AB946373@tankrip.com>
Message-ID: <001901c8a198$98330300$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Actually Colin, if you want it it's yours.  I have no use for a Sparc IPC. 
I know what it is. :P

Rich


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Colin Vallance" <colin at tankrip.com>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!


> Rich,
>
> Want to trade ;)
>
> I've got a Firebox 700 that i'm currently working on getting pyramid
> linux on.  I've heard people on the DDWRT forum that are working with
> the II and III with some degree of success.  I'm certainly interested
> if nobody else is.
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Rich Nagel wrote:
>
>> As long as Colin is giving stuff away..
>>
>> I have a Watchguard Firebox II available - status unknown - it seems
>> to
>> power up okay.   I understand there was some interest in the group to
>> re-work one to use Linux, so it's available if someone wants it. :)
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <colin at tankrip.com>
>> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
>> Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
>>
>>
>>> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to
>>> get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots
>>> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
>>> Anyone interested in a freebie?
>>>
>>> -Colin
>>>
>>> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> 


From colin at tankrip.com  Fri Apr 18 17:14:58 2008
From: colin at tankrip.com (Colin Vallance)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:14:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
In-Reply-To: <001901c8a198$98330300$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <20080418140638.6bxl71feic00w84g@webmail.tankrip.com><007101c8a18b$e109efb0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<9902B6DB-EF0B-4891-B7C5-0CB0AB946373@tankrip.com>
	<001901c8a198$98330300$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <D671BD3A-4ED4-4CB2-A0B4-69A95346F7E8@tankrip.com>

Sounds good,

No rush on getting it unless you want it out of your hands asap.  Feel  
free to email me directly so we can coordinate (maybe at a meeting if  
I can manage to get to one).  I'll be out of town for a few days for  
work so I may not reply to emails right away.

Regarding the IPC: It's getting nice out, are you sure you don't need  
a door-stop for a screen door? ;)


On Apr 18, 2008, at 5:10 PM, Rich Nagel wrote:

> Actually Colin, if you want it it's yours.  I have no use for a  
> Sparc IPC.
> I know what it is. :P
>
> Rich
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Colin Vallance" <colin at tankrip.com>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
>
>
>> Rich,
>>
>> Want to trade ;)
>>
>> I've got a Firebox 700 that i'm currently working on getting pyramid
>> linux on.  I've heard people on the DDWRT forum that are working with
>> the II and III with some degree of success.  I'm certainly interested
>> if nobody else is.
>>
>>
>> On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Rich Nagel wrote:
>>
>>> As long as Colin is giving stuff away..
>>>
>>> I have a Watchguard Firebox II available - status unknown - it seems
>>> to
>>> power up okay.   I understand there was some interest in the group  
>>> to
>>> re-work one to use Linux, so it's available if someone wants it. :)
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <colin at tankrip.com>
>>> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
>>> Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd  
>>>> like to
>>>> get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots
>>>> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
>>>> Anyone interested in a freebie?
>>>>
>>>> -Colin
>>>>
>>>> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> grlug mailing list
>>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


From billl at mtd-inc.com  Fri Apr 18 17:34:09 2008
From: billl at mtd-inc.com (Bill Littlejohn)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:34:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
In-Reply-To: <9902B6DB-EF0B-4891-B7C5-0CB0AB946373@tankrip.com>
Message-ID: <19452527.4611208554449955.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>

I would love to hear about any success with the Firebox.
I've got 2 X700's currently in use and would be very happy to have some options with them.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Vallance" <colin at tankrip.com>
To: grlug at grlug.org
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:42:18 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!

Rich,

Want to trade ;)

I've got a Firebox 700 that i'm currently working on getting pyramid  
linux on.  I've heard people on the DDWRT forum that are working with  
the II and III with some degree of success.  I'm certainly interested  
if nobody else is.


On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Rich Nagel wrote:

> As long as Colin is giving stuff away..
>
> I have a Watchguard Firebox II available - status unknown - it seems  
> to
> power up okay.   I understand there was some interest in the group to
> re-work one to use Linux, so it's available if someone wants it. :)
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <colin at tankrip.com>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
> Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
>
>
>> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to
>> get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots
>> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
>> Anyone interested in a freebie?
>>
>> -Colin
>>
>> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From geektoyz at gmail.com  Fri Apr 18 18:23:03 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:23:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
In-Reply-To: <19452527.4611208554449955.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
References: <9902B6DB-EF0B-4891-B7C5-0CB0AB946373@tankrip.com>
	<19452527.4611208554449955.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10804181523x75d963d9m127b7ffb40f7a6d1@mail.gmail.com>

It looks like ddwrt is possible on the Firebox(es):

http://dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices#Watchguard
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Watchguard_Firebox_II
http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/down.php?path=downloads%2Frelease+candidates%2FDD-WRT+v24+RC6.2%2FX86%2Fpublic/

G-

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Bill Littlejohn <billl at mtd-inc.com> wrote:
> I would love to hear about any success with the Firebox.
>  I've got 2 X700's currently in use and would be very happy to have some options with them.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Colin Vallance" <colin at tankrip.com>
>  To: grlug at grlug.org
>
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:42:18 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
>  Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
>
>
>
> Rich,
>
>  Want to trade ;)
>
>  I've got a Firebox 700 that i'm currently working on getting pyramid
>  linux on.  I've heard people on the DDWRT forum that are working with
>  the II and III with some degree of success.  I'm certainly interested
>  if nobody else is.
>
>
>  On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Rich Nagel wrote:
>
>  > As long as Colin is giving stuff away..
>  >
>  > I have a Watchguard Firebox II available - status unknown - it seems
>  > to
>  > power up okay.   I understand there was some interest in the group to
>  > re-work one to use Linux, so it's available if someone wants it. :)
>  >
>  > Rich
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: <colin at tankrip.com>
>  > To: <grlug at grlug.org>
>  > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
>  > Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
>  >
>  >
>  >> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to
>  >> get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots
>  >> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
>  >> Anyone interested in a freebie?
>  >>
>  >> -Colin
>  >>
>  >> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
>  >>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> grlug mailing list
>  >> grlug at grlug.org
>  >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >>
>  >>
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From billl at mtd-inc.com  Fri Apr 18 19:30:58 2008
From: billl at mtd-inc.com (Bill Littlejohn)
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:30:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10804181523x75d963d9m127b7ffb40f7a6d1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21712743.4641208561458252.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>

It looks like it _should_ work, but is largely untested. 
I would still like to hear what luck Colin has on the X700 hardware with Pyramid Linux. Personally I would love to run Debian on it. These things are damned expensive to keep licensed, a major pain to get licensed correctly if you're in damage control mode, and have Windows only management tools. Not to mention having a black box as a security solution never sat well with me. However, I'm too chicken to tear into my failover box without knowing for sure that something is going to work reliably.
BL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Godwin" <geektoyz at gmail.com>
To: grlug at grlug.org
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:23:03 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!

It looks like ddwrt is possible on the Firebox(es):

http://dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices#Watchguard
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Watchguard_Firebox_II
http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/down.php?path=downloads%2Frelease+candidates%2FDD-WRT+v24+RC6.2%2FX86%2Fpublic/

G-

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Bill Littlejohn <billl at mtd-inc.com> wrote:
> I would love to hear about any success with the Firebox.
>  I've got 2 X700's currently in use and would be very happy to have some options with them.
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Colin Vallance" <colin at tankrip.com>
>  To: grlug at grlug.org
>
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:42:18 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
>  Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hardware - another freebie from me too!
>
>
>
> Rich,
>
>  Want to trade ;)
>
>  I've got a Firebox 700 that i'm currently working on getting pyramid
>  linux on.  I've heard people on the DDWRT forum that are working with
>  the II and III with some degree of success.  I'm certainly interested
>  if nobody else is.
>
>
>  On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:39 PM, Rich Nagel wrote:
>
>  > As long as Colin is giving stuff away..
>  >
>  > I have a Watchguard Firebox II available - status unknown - it seems
>  > to
>  > power up okay.   I understand there was some interest in the group to
>  > re-work one to use Linux, so it's available if someone wants it. :)
>  >
>  > Rich
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: <colin at tankrip.com>
>  > To: <grlug at grlug.org>
>  > Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
>  > Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
>  >
>  >
>  >> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to
>  >> get out of my garage.  I'm not completely certain that it boots
>  >> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
>  >> Anyone interested in a freebie?
>  >>
>  >> -Colin
>  >>
>  >> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
>  >>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> grlug mailing list
>  >> grlug at grlug.org
>  >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >>
>  >>
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From chadg at uncleyaya.net  Sat Apr 19 13:21:31 2008
From: chadg at uncleyaya.net (chadg at uncleyaya.net)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:21:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
Message-ID: <27836232.828121208625691163.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>

If we're cleaning out closets...

I've also got a Tatung Compstation U Series UltraSparc clone to give away. It has keyboard, mouse, monitor, with mouse and cdrom. It seemed to work fine when I booted it up a couple of months ago. If anyone wants it just let me know.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <colin at tankrip.com> 
To: <grlug at grlug.org> 
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM 
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware 


> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to 
> get out of my garage. I'm not completely certain that it boots 
> anymore but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd. 
> Anyone interested in a freebie? 
> 
> -Colin 
> 
> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it) 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> grlug mailing list 
> grlug at grlug.org 
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug 

_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From paulk at teamddm.com  Mon Apr 21 23:50:50 2008
From: paulk at teamddm.com (Paul Kortman)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:50:50 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>

Can I get an invite?

paul at paulkortman.com

Thanks!

----
paul kortman
ddm marketing & communications
100 grandville sw suite 600
grand rapids michigan 49503

616 632 1336 direct
231 414 6009 cell

616 454 0505 phone
616 454 1134 fax
teamddm.com 



Casey DuBois wrote:
> Hello GRLUG,
>
> I have setup a GRLUG group on LinkedIn and wanted to let everyone know.
>
> If you are already using LinkedIn please add this group to your profile.
>
> If you are NOT using LinkedIn check it out @ www.linkedin.com.
>
> Please contact me with any questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   
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From casey at grlug.org  Tue Apr 22 08:47:23 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:47:23 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
	<480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804220547rb2c1fc0kb34cbd0b683e29d8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Paul and anyone else interested in joining the GRLUG group on LinkedIn.
To join our group just click the link below:
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/88740/7A679E35BE31


P.S. WMLUG meeting is this week Thursday the 24th www.wmlug.org
P.S.S. Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting On May 15th.

Regards,
Casey

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Paul Kortman <paulk at teamddm.com> wrote:
> Can I get an invite?
>
> paul at paulkortman.com
>
> Thanks!
> ----
> paul kortman
> ddm marketing & communications
> 100 grandville sw suite
> 600
> grand rapids michigan 49503
>
> 616 632 1336 direct
> 231 414 6009 cell
>
> 616
> 454 0505 phone
> 616 454 1134 fax
> teamddm.com
>
>
>
> Casey DuBois wrote:
>
> Hello GRLUG,
>
> I have setup a GRLUG group on LinkedIn and wanted to let
> everyone know.
>
> If you are already using LinkedIn please add this group to
> your profile.
>
> If you are NOT using LinkedIn check it out @
> www.linkedin.com.
>
> Please contact me with any
> questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug
> mailing list
>
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From casey at grlug.org  Tue Apr 22 08:49:04 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:49:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
	<480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804220549m3b5dd031l38879d1be5e2936e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Paul and anyone else interested in joining the GRLUG group on LinkedIn.
To join our group just click the link below:
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/88740/7A679E35BE31


P.S. WMLUG meeting is this week Thursday the 24th www.wmlug.org
P.S.S. Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting On May 15th.

Regards,
Casey

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Paul Kortman <paulk at teamddm.com> wrote:
> Can I get an invite?
>
> paul at paulkortman.com
>
> Thanks!
> ----
> paul kortman
> ddm marketing & communications
> 100 grandville sw suite
> 600
> grand rapids michigan 49503
>
> 616 632 1336 direct
> 231 414 6009 cell
>
> 616
> 454 0505 phone
> 616 454 1134 fax
> teamddm.com
>
>
>
> Casey DuBois wrote:
>
> Hello GRLUG,
>
> I have setup a GRLUG group on LinkedIn and wanted to let
> everyone know.
>
> If you are already using LinkedIn please add this group to
> your profile.
>
> If you are NOT using LinkedIn check it out @
> www.linkedin.com.
>
> Please contact me with any
> questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug
> mailing list
>
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From networkman at triton.net  Tue Apr 22 10:54:28 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (networkman at triton.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:54:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804220549m3b5dd031l38879d1be5e2936e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
	<480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>
	<f0ffba670804220549m3b5dd031l38879d1be5e2936e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1825.69.11.205.103.1208876068.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>

> P.S.S. Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting On May 15th.

Same bat time, same bat channel? (time/place) :P

Rich



From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Tue Apr 22 11:11:45 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:11:45 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <1825.69.11.205.103.1208876068.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
	<480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>
	<f0ffba670804220549m3b5dd031l38879d1be5e2936e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1825.69.11.205.103.1208876068.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804220811j78c780f0x932a478c52fbc4d9@mail.gmail.com>

Same place
Same time
Same channel
:)

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:54 AM, <networkman at triton.net> wrote:

> > P.S.S. Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting On May 15th.
>
> Same bat time, same bat channel? (time/place) :P
>
> Rich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From casey at grlug.org  Tue Apr 22 11:11:53 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:11:53 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] GRLUG group on LinkedIn
In-Reply-To: <1825.69.11.205.103.1208876068.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
References: <f0ffba670804160758h2fe6e6c6y69c40b821240c661@mail.gmail.com>
	<480D609A.80106@teamddm.com>
	<f0ffba670804220549m3b5dd031l38879d1be5e2936e@mail.gmail.com>
	<1825.69.11.205.103.1208876068.squirrel@remotemail.triton.net>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804220811j461f6fd8m4c237934690a2acb@mail.gmail.com>

YES
Same bat time 6-8PM
Same bat channel: N-VINT, Inc., 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive
SE, Caledonia, MI

I'll get the WIKI updated in the next day or two.

Casey

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:54 AM,  <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > P.S.S. Mark your calendars for the next GRLUG meeting On May 15th.
>
> Same bat time, same bat channel? (time/place) :P
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com  Wed Apr 23 14:50:58 2008
From: JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com (Olding, Jim)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:50:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware
In-Reply-To: <27836232.828121208625691163.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
References: <27836232.828121208625691163.JavaMail.servlet@perfora>
Message-ID: <25D140710D94DE4B8F9CE749375DD531C6E7BB@exchange.gaineycorp.local>

I have an old POWER2 based RS6000 with documentation and software (AIX!)
if anyone is interested. I also have an SGI Indigo2 (teal model), which
has a working install of IRIX on it still, and comes with the 13W3 ->
VGA adapter.  You'll need a sync-on-green monitor for it though.

Both systems worked last time I fired them up, free to a good home.

----- Original Message -----
From: <colin at tankrip.com>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:06 PM
Subject: [GRLUG] Hardware 


> I've got an old Sparc IPC (with AUI network adaptor) that i'd like to 
> get out of my garage. I'm not completely certain that it boots anymore

> but the last os I had on there was either Debian or Netbsd.
> Anyone interested in a freebie? 
> 
> -Colin
> 
> (I might even have an external SCSI cdrom too if I can find it)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 26 15:34:38 2008
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:34:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug website
In-Reply-To: <25D140710D94DE4B8F9CE749375DD531C6E7BB@exchange.gaineycorp.local>
Message-ID: <623909.45978.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just an idea, but now that we have access to the
website/wiki, maybe we could start thinking about what
to put on it and how we could organize it better.

I was looking at the KLUG site today:

http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/

From jjfoerch at earthlink.net  Sat Apr 26 19:49:14 2008
From: jjfoerch at earthlink.net (John J Foerch)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:49:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG]  grlug website
In-Reply-To: <623909.45978.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <25D140710D94DE4B8F9CE749375DD531C6E7BB@exchange.gaineycorp.local>
	<623909.45978.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <18451.49018.37538.858994@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

John Harig writes:
 > Just an idea, but now that we have access to the
 > website/wiki, maybe we could start thinking about what
 > to put on it and how we could organize it better.
 > 
 > I was looking at the KLUG site today:
 > 
 > http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/

Minimalistic is good.  The only thing I will probably ever use the
grlug website for is to find meeting times.

John Foerch

From colin at tankrip.com  Sun Apr 27 15:28:13 2008
From: colin at tankrip.com (Colin Vallance)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:28:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
Message-ID: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>

Doing some network stuff at work today and we're in need of some 3'  
cables.  Does anyone know of someone in town that carries them and  
would be open on Sunday?

-Colin

From mikemol at gmail.com  Sun Apr 27 15:40:23 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:40:23 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>

Best Buy

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Colin Vallance <colin at tankrip.com> wrote:
> Doing some network stuff at work today and we're in need of some 3'
>  cables.  Does anyone know of someone in town that carries them and
>  would be open on Sunday?
>
>  -Colin
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq

From colin at tankrip.com  Sun Apr 27 15:52:34 2008
From: colin at tankrip.com (Colin Vallance)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:52:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
	<f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid best buy's price gouging on cables like  
that.  I think they're $15 a pop or so.


On Apr 27, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Michael Mol wrote:

> Best Buy
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Colin Vallance <colin at tankrip.com>  
> wrote:
>> Doing some network stuff at work today and we're in need of some 3'
>> cables.  Does anyone know of someone in town that carries them and
>> would be open on Sunday?
>>
>> -Colin
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Sun Apr 27 17:52:08 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:52:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
	<f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>
Message-ID: <1209333128.23926.0.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

You did say "Sunday and Open"


On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 15:52 -0400, Colin Vallance wrote:
> Yeah, I was hoping to avoid best buy's price gouging on cables like  
> that.  I think they're $15 a pop or so.
> 
> On Apr 27, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
> 
> > Best Buy
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Colin Vallance <colin at tankrip.com>  
> > wrote:
> >> Doing some network stuff at work today and we're in need of some 3'
> >> cables.  Does anyone know of someone in town that carries them and
> >> would be open on Sunday?
> >>
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From geektoyz at gmail.com  Sun Apr 27 21:26:33 2008
From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:26:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <1209333128.23926.0.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
	<f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>
	<1209333128.23926.0.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <8b72b8d10804271826r38f00bf4pd3e68bbf657602b0@mail.gmail.com>

Meijer.  They carry a small assortment of networking/audio/video cables.  24/7

G-

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:
> You did say "Sunday and Open"
>
>
>
>
>  On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 15:52 -0400, Colin Vallance wrote:
>  > Yeah, I was hoping to avoid best buy's price gouging on cables like
>  > that.  I think they're $15 a pop or so.
>  >
>  > On Apr 27, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
>  >
>  > > Best Buy
>  > >
>  > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Colin Vallance <colin at tankrip.com>
>  > > wrote:
>  > >> Doing some network stuff at work today and we're in need of some 3'
>  > >> cables.  Does anyone know of someone in town that carries them and
>  > >> would be open on Sunday?
>  > >>
>  --
>  greg at gregfolkert.net
>  PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
>  Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
>  Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
>  Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 

Ubber::Geek
http://grlug.org/

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Sun Apr 27 21:53:19 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:53:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10804271826r38f00bf4pd3e68bbf657602b0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
	<f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>
	<1209333128.23926.0.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<8b72b8d10804271826r38f00bf4pd3e68bbf657602b0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804271853j7da8b557s8a3decffbe87edcc@mail.gmail.com>

or you can holler me out, I can make them but i sell it for $5 for 3 feet
cable :)

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Godwin <geektoyz at gmail.com> wrote:

> Meijer.  They carry a small assortment of networking/audio/video cables.
>  24/7
>
> G-
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net>
> wrote:
> > You did say "Sunday and Open"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 15:52 -0400, Colin Vallance wrote:
> >  > Yeah, I was hoping to avoid best buy's price gouging on cables like
> >  > that.  I think they're $15 a pop or so.
> >  >
> >  > On Apr 27, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
> >  >
> >  > > Best Buy
> >  > >
> >  > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Colin Vallance <colin at tankrip.com>
> >  > > wrote:
> >  > >> Doing some network stuff at work today and we're in need of some
> 3'
> >  > >> cables.  Does anyone know of someone in town that carries them and
> >  > >> would be open on Sunday?
> >  > >>
> >  --
> >  greg at gregfolkert.net
> >  PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
> >  Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
> >  Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
> >  Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  grlug mailing list
> >  grlug at grlug.org
> >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Ubber::Geek
> http://grlug.org/
>  _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Sun Apr 27 22:03:51 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:03:51 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804271853j7da8b557s8a3decffbe87edcc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
	<f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>
	<1209333128.23926.0.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<8b72b8d10804271826r38f00bf4pd3e68bbf657602b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804271853j7da8b557s8a3decffbe87edcc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450804271903m3ed9f682s8c96a399fc2d34d7@mail.gmail.com>

Heh.  The 10ft Cat6 I ordered from Newegg cost less than that.  Though
a local source is arguably worth more in convenience.

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> or you can holler me out, I can make them but i sell it for $5 for 3 feet
> cable :)
>
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 9:26 PM, Godwin <geektoyz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Meijer.  They carry a small assortment of networking/audio/video cables.
> 24/7
> >
> > G-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 5:52 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net>
> wrote:
> > > You did say "Sunday and Open"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 15:52 -0400, Colin Vallance wrote:
> > >  > Yeah, I was hoping to avoid best buy's price gouging on cables like
> > >  > that.  I think they're $15 a pop or so.
> > >  >
> > >  > On Apr 27, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Michael Mol wrote:
> > >  >
> > >  > > Best Buy
> > >  > >
> > >  > > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Colin Vallance <colin at tankrip.com>
> > >  > > wrote:
> > >  > >> Doing some network stuff at work today and we're in need of some
> 3'
> > >  > >> cables.  Does anyone know of someone in town that carries them and
> > >  > >> would be open on Sunday?
> > >  > >>
> > >  --
> > >  greg at gregfolkert.net
> > >  PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
> > >  Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
> > >  Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
> > >  Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
> > >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >  grlug mailing list
> > >  grlug at grlug.org
> > >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Ubber::Geek
> > http://grlug.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq

From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 06:36:53 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:36:53 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10804271826r38f00bf4pd3e68bbf657602b0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
	<f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>
	<1209333128.23926.0.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<8b72b8d10804271826r38f00bf4pd3e68bbf657602b0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209379013.4382.1.camel@aleph>


On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 21:26 -0400, Godwin wrote:
> Meijer.  They carry a small assortment of networking/audio/video cables.  24/7

Home Depot sells them as well,  along with jacks and patch panels.
-- 
          Consonance: an Open Source .NET OpenGroupware client.
 Contact:awilliam at whitemiceconsulting.com   http://freshmeat.net/projects/consonance/


From tehpopa at gmail.com  Mon Apr 28 19:24:42 2008
From: tehpopa at gmail.com (Justin Popa)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:24:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Cables
In-Reply-To: <1209379013.4382.1.camel@aleph>
References: <500F41C2-0FE8-41E3-8D7F-CAF6E698BDDB@tankrip.com>
	<f5e00c450804271240x180767abj33ccee62eed3d675@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F854878-699F-4B1A-B585-47AD27FD6858@tankrip.com>
	<1209333128.23926.0.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
	<8b72b8d10804271826r38f00bf4pd3e68bbf657602b0@mail.gmail.com>
	<1209379013.4382.1.camel@aleph>
Message-ID: <ca1715f80804281624t32a0e249ofb9537bc46480551@mail.gmail.com>

Home depot is a bit pricey. I used to work for a cabling company and we had
tons of spit cable rolls(under 60ft, under 100, etc) that just got tossed.
I've got over 2000ft of cable now, and I just buy ends as I need them.

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:36 AM, Adam Tauno Williams <
adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 21:26 -0400, Godwin wrote:
> > Meijer.  They carry a small assortment of networking/audio/video cables.
>  24/7
>
> Home Depot sells them as well,  along with jacks and patch panels.
> --
>          Consonance: an Open Source .NET OpenGroupware client.
>  Contact:awilliam at whitemiceconsulting.com<Contact%3Aawilliam at whitemiceconsulting.com>
> http://freshmeat.net/projects/consonance/
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From casey at grlug.org  Tue Apr 29 14:20:36 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:20:36 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CUPS Presentation - Next GRLUG Meeting Thursday May 15th
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804291120h4e27d3admc3dcbba7fad8ff08@mail.gmail.com>

Hello ALL,

GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) May Meeting

Food will be provided so please RSVP to casey at grlug.org so I can make
sure to have enough.

Date and Time:
Thursday May 15th
6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)

Location:
N-Vint, Inc., 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1

Presentation: Enterprise Printing via CUPS "Implementing CUPS and
using cups from Windows, Linux, HPUX and AIX"
Additional Topics:
gOS
USB Linux
Open source vs Closed source for Linux


*** REMINDER *** AIM West meeting TOMORROW
An Open Discussion of Open Source: How FREE Software Can Help Your Business!
Wednesday, April 30th
Location: Eberhard Center, GVSU
Networking Time:  5:30 p.m.
Panel Discussion:  6:30 p.m.

Panelists Are:
Carl Erickson (Atomic Object)
Brian Anderson (RCM Technologies)
Andy Mann (Calhoun Intermediate School District)
Eric Hartwell (ITT Technical Institute)
More details @ www.aimwest.org

See you soon,
Casey DuBois
casey at grlug.org

From darth_linux at ameritech.net  Sat Apr 26 20:06:59 2008
From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:06:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug website
In-Reply-To: <18451.49018.37538.858994@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <25D140710D94DE4B8F9CE749375DD531C6E7BB@exchange.gaineycorp.local>
	<623909.45978.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<18451.49018.37538.858994@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <200804262007.00197.darth_linux@ameritech.net>

On Saturday 26 April 2008 19:49:14 pm John J Foerch wrote:
> John Harig writes:
>  > Just an idea, but now that we have access to the
>  > website/wiki, maybe we could start thinking about what
>  > to put on it and how we could organize it better.
>  >
>  > I was looking at the KLUG site today:
>  >
>  > http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/
>
> Minimalistic is good.  The only thing I will probably ever use the
> grlug website for is to find meeting times.
>
> John Foerch
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

we have a website? 


:-) 

eah

From darth_linux at ameritech.net  Tue Apr 29 21:55:42 2008
From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:55:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CUPS Presentation - Next GRLUG Meeting Thursday May 15th
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804291120h4e27d3admc3dcbba7fad8ff08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0ffba670804291120h4e27d3admc3dcbba7fad8ff08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200804292155.42622.darth_linux@ameritech.net>

On Tuesday 29 April 2008 14:20:36 pm Casey DuBois wrote:
> Hello ALL,
>
> GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) May Meeting
>
> Food will be provided so please RSVP to casey at grlug.org so I can make
> sure to have enough.
>
> Date and Time:
> Thursday May 15th
> 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)
>
> Location:
> N-Vint, Inc., 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial
>+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.76562
>5&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
>
> Presentation: Enterprise Printing via CUPS "Implementing CUPS and
> using cups from Windows, Linux, HPUX and AIX"
> Additional Topics:
> gOS
> USB Linux
> Open source vs Closed source for Linux
>
>
> *** REMINDER *** AIM West meeting TOMORROW
> An Open Discussion of Open Source: How FREE Software Can Help Your
> Business! Wednesday, April 30th
> Location: Eberhard Center, GVSU
> Networking Time:  5:30 p.m.
> Panel Discussion:  6:30 p.m.
>
> Panelists Are:
> Carl Erickson (Atomic Object)
> Brian Anderson (RCM Technologies)
> Andy Mann (Calhoun Intermediate School District)
> Eric Hartwell (ITT Technical Institute)
> More details @ www.aimwest.org
>
> See you soon,
> Casey DuBois
> casey at grlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

I'll do my best to be there :-) 


eah 

From thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 08:37:41 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:37:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CUPS Presentation - Next GRLUG Meeting Thursday May 15th
In-Reply-To: <200804292155.42622.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
References: <f0ffba670804291120h4e27d3admc3dcbba7fad8ff08@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804292155.42622.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0804300537s7dbd9e04i9b50410ab0d421d@mail.gmail.com>

I have been using cups to modify print jobs in transit which has some
usefully applications. If any one is interested I'll bring some
information to the meeting.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:55 PM, eah <darth_linux at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 29 April 2008 14:20:36 pm Casey DuBois wrote:
>  > Hello ALL,
>  >
>  > GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) May Meeting
>  >
>  > Food will be provided so please RSVP to casey at grlug.org so I can make
>  > sure to have enough.
>  >
>  > Date and Time:
>  > Thursday May 15th
>  > 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)
>  >
>  > Location:
>  > N-Vint, Inc., 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
>  > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial
>  >+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.76562
>  >5&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
>  >
>  > Presentation: Enterprise Printing via CUPS "Implementing CUPS and
>  > using cups from Windows, Linux, HPUX and AIX"
>  > Additional Topics:
>  > gOS
>  > USB Linux
>  > Open source vs Closed source for Linux
>  >
>  >
>  > *** REMINDER *** AIM West meeting TOMORROW
>  > An Open Discussion of Open Source: How FREE Software Can Help Your
>  > Business! Wednesday, April 30th
>  > Location: Eberhard Center, GVSU
>  > Networking Time:  5:30 p.m.
>  > Panel Discussion:  6:30 p.m.
>  >
>  > Panelists Are:
>  > Carl Erickson (Atomic Object)
>  > Brian Anderson (RCM Technologies)
>  > Andy Mann (Calhoun Intermediate School District)
>  > Eric Hartwell (ITT Technical Institute)
>  > More details @ www.aimwest.org
>  >
>  > See you soon,
>  > Casey DuBois
>  > casey at grlug.org
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>  I'll do my best to be there :-)
>
>
>  eah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From erickson.adam.m at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 08:56:36 2008
From: erickson.adam.m at gmail.com (Adam M. Erickson)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:56:36 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CAT5 Cables
Message-ID: <7cd69fdf0804300556p410fc2ccp722f83719e6c34ea@mail.gmail.com>

I appologies if righting about cables on a LUG sight is upsetting
anyone, I just have to inform anyone who might not know.

Cat5 Crimper $20, Cat5 Ends $7,  500' Cat5 Cable $50, - If you
purchased these at Lowe's you could always make it yourself.

It is a good investment:

 1. If a end breaks you just have to crimp on another end.
 2. Make the exact length that you need.
 3. Could you find a crossover cable on the weekends?
 4. Make a cabling for your friends and family, or just the people you
really care about.
 5. Lowe's is open on the weekends.
 5. "Save Money"

Same amount of supplies and tools would cost $400 dollars for a kit at
Best Buy and $700+ at best buy for prepared lengths that = 500'.
Stores sell there cables for $17-$30 for about 20' of cable. It cost
the same stores $2 to bring it in.

Also thank you for the links from the last meeting Casey the Software
Wars is funny and also  truthfully scary. Apache and Firefox have
gained a lot of ground since 2006 but MS still is threating any open
standards that they can.


Adam M. Erickson
Erickson.Adam.M at gmail.com
231-728-8810

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 09:30:59 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:30:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CUPS Presentation - Next GRLUG Meeting Thursday May 15th
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804291120h4e27d3admc3dcbba7fad8ff08@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0ffba670804291120h4e27d3admc3dcbba7fad8ff08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef8ba6540804300630h306f55eeq348749c104dbf5e9@mail.gmail.com>

Im in

From jtr at jrichards.org  Wed Apr 30 10:37:43 2008
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:37:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug website
In-Reply-To: <200804262007.00197.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
References: <25D140710D94DE4B8F9CE749375DD531C6E7BB@exchange.gaineycorp.local>
	<623909.45978.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<18451.49018.37538.858994@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<200804262007.00197.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20080430143743.GA3317@jrichards.org>

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 08:06:59PM -0400, eah wrote:
> On Saturday 26 April 2008 19:49:14 pm John J Foerch wrote:
> > John Harig writes:
> >  > Just an idea, but now that we have access to the
> >  > website/wiki, maybe we could start thinking about what
> >  > to put on it and how we could organize it better.
> >  >
> >  > I was looking at the KLUG site today:
> >  >
> >  > http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/
> >
> > Minimalistic is good.  The only thing I will probably ever use the
> > grlug website for is to find meeting times.
> 
> we have a website? 

No; we have a wiki.

;-)
-- 
john-thomas
------
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Voltaire (1694-1778)

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 10:49:26 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:49:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] grlug website
In-Reply-To: <200804262007.00197.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
References: <25D140710D94DE4B8F9CE749375DD531C6E7BB@exchange.gaineycorp.local>
	<623909.45978.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<18451.49018.37538.858994@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<200804262007.00197.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804300749g3a30dc8au518143f0c3ea9c32@mail.gmail.com>

Affirmative!

Also I found Deaf LUG!

www.deaflug.com

well I can host website for you :)

if you let me host it for you, then you have to give UFA clan a credit (my
clan: www.ufaclan.net )

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 8:06 PM, eah <darth_linux at ameritech.net> wrote:

>  On Saturday 26 April 2008 19:49:14 pm John J Foerch wrote:
> > John Harig writes:
> >  > Just an idea, but now that we have access to the
> >  > website/wiki, maybe we could start thinking about what
> >  > to put on it and how we could organize it better.
> >  >
> >  > I was looking at the KLUG site today:
> >  >
> >  > http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/
> >
> > Minimalistic is good.  The only thing I will probably ever use the
> > grlug website for is to find meeting times.
> >
> > John Foerch
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> we have a website?
>
>
> :-)
>
> eah
>  _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Apr 30 11:33:16 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:33:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CAT5 Cables
In-Reply-To: <7cd69fdf0804300556p410fc2ccp722f83719e6c34ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7cd69fdf0804300556p410fc2ccp722f83719e6c34ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209569596.3220.49.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 08:56 -0400, Adam M. Erickson wrote:
> I apologies if writing about cables on a LUG sight is upsetting
> anyone, I just have to inform anyone who might not know.
> 
> Cat5 Crimper $20, Cat5 Ends $7,  500' Cat5 Cable $50, - If you
> purchased these at Lowe's you could always make it yourself.
> 
> It is a good investment:
> 
>  1. If a end breaks you just have to crimp on another end.
>  2. Make the exact length that you need.
>  3. Could you find a crossover cable on the weekends?
>  4. Make a cabling for your friends and family, or just the people you
> really care about.
>  5. Lowe's is open on the weekends.
>  5. "Save Money"
> 
> Same amount of supplies and tools would cost $400 dollars for a kit at
> Best Buy and $700+ at best buy for prepared lengths that = 500'.
> Stores sell there cables for $17-$30 for about 20' of cable. It cost
> the same stores $2 to bring it in.

For those of us that manage wiring plants with bandwidth and EMI/RFI
guarantees, most of the time these guarantees require the use of
certified patch cables at both end of the link.

Is there any way *you* can guarantee these qualities in you self made
cables are within the certified limits for a given professionally
installed wiring plant:

     1. Impedance load
     2. Capacitance load
     3. Resistive load
     4. Contact end integrity for Attenuation (contact signal drop),
        NEXT (Near End Crosstalk) and PSNUM (Power Sum Crosstalk)
     5. Stress reliefs on each end to ensure cables don't bend more than
        a certain arc.

There are qualities, though these are the big ones.

At CAT3 (10Mbit and 16Mbit token ring) these really don't matter much
(Voice and up to 20MHz clocking).

As CAT4 and CAT5 don't exist in the real world, no matter.

At CAT5e, these begin to matter, at 125MHz clocking (100Mbit Ethernet
use 4/5 encoding), things like Impedance and Capacitance begin to
interfere with signaling. Impedance affect the ultimate distance an
"Ethernet" signal can travel, though a cable with capacitance can
literally short the signal via RFI crostalk between each wire. CAT5e
generally has greater twist in the pairs and twisting of the 4 pairs as
they go down the cable to combat both this capacitance and also to
thwart EFI/RFI outside interference. CAT5e is really the last of the
cabling you and I can make that work. CAT5e cables are generally good
upto 150MHz, but not are guaranteed, some do work for 1GBit, but lots of
re-tries and drops do occur. On 1GBit, it uses all four pair of cable to
"mux" the signals, and get the throughput up. vs 100Mbit, only using 2
pair. CAT5e can be usable upto 250Mhz.... but Your Mileage May^H^H^H
*WILL* Vary GREATLY.

At CAT6 and beyond, typically ONLY are possible to be made in a
manufacturing environment. Why? Tolerances required are not repeatable
except in jigs and machines set to certain "crush torque" and stripping
of wire without nicking them and so on.

(yes these links are wikipedia, but they are correct and point to good
references)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5e_cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_cabling
?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA-568B

-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From casey at grlug.org  Wed Apr 30 11:39:14 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:39:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] AIM West Meeting Tonight - 1-FREE Pass
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804300839k584569f5sc0d3ae7145a51cee@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,

I have 1-FREE PASS for the AIM west meeting tonight if anyone is
interested please contact me @ 616-808-6942 or casey at grlug.org.

Regards,

Casey

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:06:04 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:06:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that damned
BSOD!

I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play game

two BSOD caused by
-Intel ICH9
-ATK0110 ACPI Utility

My computer specs:
ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
BX80557E6850
Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 2048MB)
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express x16
HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
Energy Efficient, Modular
SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B


I think I might got wrong PSU......

my PSU link:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
and it say SLi Certificated

my ATI support Crossfire Certificated


-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:12:06 2008
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:12:06 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450804300912i66946c43w245b1c9166588038@mail.gmail.com>

Professor Inuyasha, when writing emails to the mailing list, turn off Rich
Formatting in GMail. (Click on the link that says "Plain Text").

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Professor Inuyasha <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
wrote:
> <div>Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
damned BSOD!</div>
>  <div>&nbsp;</div>
>  <div>I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I
play game</div>
>  <div>&nbsp;</div>
>  <div>two BSOD caused by</div>
>  <div>-Intel ICH9</div>
>  <div>-ATK0110 ACPI Utility</div>
>  <div>&nbsp;</div>
>  <div>My computer specs:</div>
>  <div><font color="#000000">ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX
Intel Motherboard </font></div>
>  <div>Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
Model BX80557E6850 </div>
>  <div>Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
2048MB)</div>
>  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard
Drive </div>
>  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard
Drive </div>
>  <div>DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI
Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card </div>
>  <div>Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E
Ready, Energy Efficient, Modular</div>
>  <div>SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B</div>
>  <div>&nbsp;</div>
>  <div>&nbsp;</div>
>  <div>I think I might got wrong PSU......</div>
>  <div>&nbsp;</div>
>  <div>my PSU link: <a href="
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
">
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
</a></div>
>  <div>and it say SLi Certificated</div>
>  <div>&nbsp;</div>
>  <div>my ATI support Crossfire Certificated</div>
>  <div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>------------------<br>Professor Inuyasha
</div>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
:wq
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From casey at grlug.org  Wed Apr 30 12:30:55 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:30:55 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CAT5 Cables
In-Reply-To: <1209569596.3220.49.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <7cd69fdf0804300556p410fc2ccp722f83719e6c34ea@mail.gmail.com>
	<1209569596.3220.49.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804300930j751268fhb72916625e4619d4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 08:56 -0400, Adam M. Erickson wrote:
> > I apologies if writing about cables on a LUG sight is upsetting
> > anyone, I just have to inform anyone who might not know.
> >
> > Cat5 Crimper $20, Cat5 Ends $7,  500' Cat5 Cable $50, - If you
> > purchased these at Lowe's you could always make it yourself.
> >
> > It is a good investment:
> >
> >  1. If a end breaks you just have to crimp on another end.
> >  2. Make the exact length that you need.
> >  3. Could you find a crossover cable on the weekends?
> >  4. Make a cabling for your friends and family, or just the people you
> > really care about.
> >  5. Lowe's is open on the weekends.
> >  5. "Save Money"
> >
> > Same amount of supplies and tools would cost $400 dollars for a kit at
> > Best Buy and $700+ at best buy for prepared lengths that = 500'.
> > Stores sell there cables for $17-$30 for about 20' of cable. It cost
> > the same stores $2 to bring it in.
>
> For those of us that manage wiring plants with bandwidth and EMI/RFI
> guarantees, most of the time these guarantees require the use of
> certified patch cables at both end of the link.
>
> Is there any way *you* can guarantee these qualities in you self made
> cables are within the certified limits for a given professionally
> installed wiring plant:
>
>     1. Impedance load
>     2. Capacitance load
>     3. Resistive load
>     4. Contact end integrity for Attenuation (contact signal drop),
>        NEXT (Near End Crosstalk) and PSNUM (Power Sum Crosstalk)
>     5. Stress reliefs on each end to ensure cables don't bend more than
>        a certain arc.
>
> There are qualities, though these are the big ones.
>
> At CAT3 (10Mbit and 16Mbit token ring) these really don't matter much
> (Voice and up to 20MHz clocking).
>
> As CAT4 and CAT5 don't exist in the real world, no matter.
>
> At CAT5e, these begin to matter, at 125MHz clocking (100Mbit Ethernet
> use 4/5 encoding), things like Impedance and Capacitance begin to
> interfere with signaling. Impedance affect the ultimate distance an
> "Ethernet" signal can travel, though a cable with capacitance can
> literally short the signal via RFI crostalk between each wire. CAT5e
> generally has greater twist in the pairs and twisting of the 4 pairs as
> they go down the cable to combat both this capacitance and also to
> thwart EFI/RFI outside interference. CAT5e is really the last of the
> cabling you and I can make that work. CAT5e cables are generally good
> upto 150MHz, but not are guaranteed, some do work for 1GBit, but lots of
> re-tries and drops do occur. On 1GBit, it uses all four pair of cable to
> "mux" the signals, and get the throughput up. vs 100Mbit, only using 2
> pair. CAT5e can be usable upto 250Mhz.... but Your Mileage May^H^H^H
> *WILL* Vary GREATLY.
>
> At CAT6 and beyond, typically ONLY are possible to be made in a
> manufacturing environment. Why? Tolerances required are not repeatable
> except in jigs and machines set to certain "crush torque" and stripping
> of wire without nicking them and so on.
>
> (yes these links are wikipedia, but they are correct and point to good
> references)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5e_cable
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_cabling
> ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA-568B
>
> --
> greg at gregfolkert.net
> PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
> Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
> Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
> Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

I have a good story to go along with this thread.

I was working with a wiring company that got a service call @ 2:30AM
for a connection being down, after driving an hour to the location and
working the issue for another hour he discovered a bad crimp and
broken tab were the issue.

Savings $10
Service Call Cost $300+

For NON critical applications making your own is fine but for a
connection that runs your business using a certified cable that costs
a couple extra bucks is worth it.

Casey

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:35:43 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:35:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450804300912i66946c43w245b1c9166588038@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450804300912i66946c43w245b1c9166588038@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804300935icb58bf1g276de5c3323a48eb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
damned BSOD!

I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play game

two BSOD caused by
-Intel ICH9
-ATK0110 ACPI Utility

My computer specs:
ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
Model BX80557E6850
Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 2048MB)
Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI
Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E
Ready, Energy Efficient, Modular
SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B


I think I might got wrong PSU......

my PSU link: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
and it say SLi Certificated

my ATI support Crossfire Certificated

======================

I called to Ultra company about PSU, no error found yet

I am going to call to ASUS, Intel, and ATI company to find what's
going on with my Luna PC and find way to stop BSOD

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> Professor Inuyasha, when writing emails to the mailing list, turn off Rich Formatting in GMail. (Click on the link that says "Plain Text").
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Professor Inuyasha <profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> > <div>Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that damned BSOD!</div>
> >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> >  <div>I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play game</div>
> >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> >  <div>two BSOD caused by</div>
> >  <div>-Intel ICH9</div>
> >  <div>-ATK0110 ACPI Utility</div>
> >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> >  <div>My computer specs:</div>
> >  <div><font color="#000000">ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard </font></div>
> >  <div>Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6850 </div>
> >  <div>Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 2048MB)</div>
> >  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive </div>
> >  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive </div>
> >  <div>DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card </div>
> >  <div>Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready, Energy Efficient, Modular</div>
> >  <div>SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B</div>
> >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> >  <div>I think I might got wrong PSU......</div>
> >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> >  <div>my PSU link: <a href="http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064">http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064</a></div>
> >  <div>and it say SLi Certificated</div>
> >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> >  <div>my ATI support Crossfire Certificated</div>
> >  <div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>------------------<br>Professor Inuyasha </div>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  grlug mailing list
> >  grlug at grlug.org
> >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> :wq
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From nicholas at iserv.net  Wed Apr 30 12:20:00 2008
From: nicholas at iserv.net (Mike Nicholas / The Personal Connection)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:20:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33296.75.40.244.148.1209572400.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>

On Wed, April 30, 2008 12:06 pm, Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> damned
> BSOD!
>
> I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
^^^^^^^There is the problem^^^^^^^

I haven't gotten a BSOD since I started running Linux. ;-)


> game
>
> two BSOD caused by
> -Intel ICH9
> -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
>
> My computer specs:
> ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> BX80557E6850
> Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> 2048MB)
> Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> x16
> HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> Energy Efficient, Modular
> SAMSUNG 20X DVD??R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
>
>
> I think I might got wrong PSU......
>
> my PSU link:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> and it say SLi Certificated
>
> my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
>
>
> --
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:46:31 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:46:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <33296.75.40.244.148.1209572400.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<33296.75.40.244.148.1209572400.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804300946h3d57b865p19e004f253482364@mail.gmail.com>

oh shadda up!

I need know how to stop BSOD on windows because I'm running games on
windows......

Call of Duty
Call of Duty United Offensive
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare
Unreal Tournament 2004
Unreal Tournamenr 3
Guild Wars


On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Mike Nicholas / The Personal
Connection <nicholas at iserv.net> wrote:
> On Wed, April 30, 2008 12:06 pm, Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> > damned
> > BSOD!
> >
> > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> ^^^^^^^There is the problem^^^^^^^
>
> I haven't gotten a BSOD since I started running Linux. ;-)
>
>
> > game
> >
> > two BSOD caused by
> > -Intel ICH9
> > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> >
> > My computer specs:
> > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> > BX80557E6850
> > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> > 2048MB)
> > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> > x16
> > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> > Energy Efficient, Modular
> > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> >
> >
> > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> >
> > my PSU link:
> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > and it say SLi Certificated
> >
> > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------
> > Professor Inuyasha
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From networkman at triton.net  Wed Apr 30 12:51:28 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:51:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come out 
will I consider it.

Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal already. 
>From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some 
flavor of Linux. :)

Rich


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD


> Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that 
> damned
> BSOD!
>
> I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play 
> game
>
> two BSOD caused by
> -Intel ICH9
> -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
>
> My computer specs:
> ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> BX80557E6850
> Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x 
> 2048MB)
> Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express 
> x16
> HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> Energy Efficient, Modular
> SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
>
>
> I think I might got wrong PSU......
>
> my PSU link:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> and it say SLi Certificated
>
> my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug 


From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:52:04 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:52:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804300946h3d57b865p19e004f253482364@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<33296.75.40.244.148.1209572400.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
	<aecf8abe0804300946h3d57b865p19e004f253482364@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804300952j7701f0aelcd0a2b3bb3ffa3f9@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> oh shadda up!
>
>  I need know how to stop BSOD on windows because I'm running games on
>  windows......

And I care why?

--tim

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:56:18 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:56:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>

I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!

I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license

Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?

BSOD is very annoy to me!

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come out
> will I consider it.
>
> Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal already.
> From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
> flavor of Linux. :)
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
> Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>
>
> > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> > damned
> > BSOD!
> >
> > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> > game
> >
> > two BSOD caused by
> > -Intel ICH9
> > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> >
> > My computer specs:
> > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> > BX80557E6850
> > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> > 2048MB)
> > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> > x16
> > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> > Energy Efficient, Modular
> > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> >
> >
> > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> >
> > my PSU link:
> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > and it say SLi Certificated
> >
> > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------
> > Professor Inuyasha
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:58:33 2008
From: tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:58:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <15f732370804300957o5be3b87al3acc139fbaa2916e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450804300912i66946c43w245b1c9166588038@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804300935icb58bf1g276de5c3323a48eb@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804300957o5be3b87al3acc139fbaa2916e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15f732370804300958h7d8c85bu482232389cd73c6f@mail.gmail.com>

helps if i use the right address to send to list...

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Tom Warren <tomewarren at gmail.com> wrote:

> Most BSOD's are due to faulty hardware. Linux does help let you know more
> of what hardware may be failing, but since this isn't the case here, the
> first thing I would do is download the memtest86 iso and run a memory test
> to verify that you don't have a bad DIMM. Once you verify its not the memory
> you need to run a stress test on the cpu. I recommend Prime95 for windows.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Professor Inuyasha <
> profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> > damned BSOD!
> >
> > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> > game
> >
> > two BSOD caused by
> > -Intel ICH9
> > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> >
> > My computer specs:
> > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
> > Model BX80557E6850
> > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> > 2048MB)
> > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI
> > Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E
> > Ready, Energy Efficient, Modular
> > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> >
> >
> > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> >
> > my PSU link:
> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > and it say SLi Certificated
> >
> > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> >
> > ======================
> >
> > I called to Ultra company about PSU, no error found yet
> >
> > I am going to call to ASUS, Intel, and ATI company to find what's
> > going on with my Luna PC and find way to stop BSOD
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Professor Inuyasha, when writing emails to the mailing list, turn off
> > Rich Formatting in GMail. (Click on the link that says "Plain Text").
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Professor Inuyasha <
> > profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > <div>Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want
> > stop that damned BSOD!</div>
> > > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > > >  <div>I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD
> > when I play game</div>
> > > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > > >  <div>two BSOD caused by</div>
> > > >  <div>-Intel ICH9</div>
> > > >  <div>-ATK0110 ACPI Utility</div>
> > > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > > >  <div>My computer specs:</div>
> > > >  <div><font color="#000000">ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38
> > ATX Intel Motherboard </font></div>
> > > >  <div>Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core
> > Processor Model BX80557E6850 </div>
> > > >  <div>Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory
> > (2 x 2048MB)</div>
> > > >  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
> > Hard Drive </div>
> > > >  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
> > Hard Drive </div>
> > > >  <div>DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4
> > PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card </div>
> > > >  <div>Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready,
> > PCI-E Ready, Energy Efficient, Modular</div>
> > > >  <div>SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B</div>
> > > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > > >  <div>I think I might got wrong PSU......</div>
> > > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > > >  <div>my PSU link: <a href="
> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > ">
> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > </a></div>
> > > >  <div>and it say SLi Certificated</div>
> > > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > > >  <div>my ATI support Crossfire Certificated</div>
> > > >  <div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>------------------<br>Professor
> > Inuyasha </div>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >  grlug mailing list
> > > >  grlug at grlug.org
> > > >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > :wq
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------
> > Professor Inuyasha
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Warren
> meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
> Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
> tomewarren at gmail.com




-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com
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From rick at vargo.org  Wed Apr 30 13:01:10 2008
From: rick at vargo.org (Rick Vargo)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:01:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>	<005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4818A5D6.80101@vargo.org>

I think it is because this is a Linux users group and people run Linux 
and not Windows here. It isn't that they don't want to help you. I would 
suggest that if you are getting BSOD relating to the Intel ICH9 and 
ATK0110 that you update the drivers (or remove the current ones) as they 
do not appear to be compatible with Vista SP1. If this doesn't help you 
can always float your question to the local Windows user groups. They 
would be better prepared to help with this problem.

Rick


Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!
>
> I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license
>
> Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
>
> BSOD is very annoy to me!
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
>   
>> I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come out
>> will I consider it.
>>
>> Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal already.
>> From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
>> flavor of Linux. :)
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
>> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
>> Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
>>> damned
>>> BSOD!
>>>
>>> I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
>>> game
>>>
>>> two BSOD caused by
>>> -Intel ICH9
>>> -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
>>>
>>> My computer specs:
>>> ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
>>> Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
>>> BX80557E6850
>>> Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
>>> 2048MB)
>>> Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
>>> Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
>>> DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
>>> x16
>>> HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
>>> Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
>>> Energy Efficient, Modular
>>> SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I might got wrong PSU......
>>>
>>> my PSU link:
>>> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
>>> and it say SLi Certificated
>>>
>>> my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------
>>> Professor Inuyasha
>>>
>>>       
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> grlug mailing list
>>> grlug at grlug.org
>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>     
>
>
>
>   

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:01:34 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:01:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301001vf9787e5h640747947f24b9bd@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
>  BSOD is very annoy to me!

We know this.

We're here because we share a common interest - we enjoy using Linux.
We offer help to one another because we find the results of doing so
rewarding - whatever work we do benefits the entire community.

Fixing your Windows problems benefits only you.

You may choose to offer some compensation to someone in exchange for
help fixing your Windows issues, but it's beyond me why you'd come to
this list to do so.

--tim

From billl at mtd-inc.com  Wed Apr 30 13:03:27 2008
From: billl at mtd-inc.com (Bill Littlejohn)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:03:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16116023.28471209575007894.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>

> Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
Because this is the Grand Rapids Linux Users Group. We are here to help with Linux related issues, not Windows ones.
And you haven't asked nicely either.
I suggest you RTFM.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
To: grlug at grlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:56:18 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD

I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!

I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license

Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?

BSOD is very annoy to me!

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come out
> will I consider it.
>
> Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal already.
> From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
> flavor of Linux. :)
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
> Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>
>
> > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> > damned
> > BSOD!
> >
> > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> > game
> >
> > two BSOD caused by
> > -Intel ICH9
> > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> >
> > My computer specs:
> > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> > BX80557E6850
> > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> > 2048MB)
> > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> > x16
> > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> > Energy Efficient, Modular
> > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> >
> >
> > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> >
> > my PSU link:
> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > and it say SLi Certificated
> >
> > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------
> > Professor Inuyasha
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From networkman at triton.net  Wed Apr 30 13:03:44 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:03:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com><005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c8aae4$26107fa0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Have you reported any of these problems to Microsoft yet?  It is a legal 
Vista right?

Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD


>I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!
>
> I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license
>
> Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
>
> BSOD is very annoy to me!
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> 
> wrote:
>> I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come 
>> out
>> will I consider it.
>>
>> Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal 
>> already.
>> From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
>> flavor of Linux. :)
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
>> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
>> Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>>
>>
>> > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
>> > damned
>> > BSOD!
>> >
>> > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
>> > game
>> >
>> > two BSOD caused by
>> > -Intel ICH9
>> > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
>> >
>> > My computer specs:
>> > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
>> > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor 
>> > Model
>> > BX80557E6850
>> > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
>> > 2048MB)
>> > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
>> > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard 
>> > Drive
>> > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
>> > x16
>> > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
>> > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E 
>> > Ready,
>> > Energy Efficient, Modular
>> > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
>> >
>> >
>> > I think I might got wrong PSU......
>> >
>> > my PSU link:
>> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
>> > and it say SLi Certificated
>> >
>> > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ------------------
>> > Professor Inuyasha
>> >
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > grlug mailing list
>> > grlug at grlug.org
>> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug 


From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:05:13 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:05:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <16116023.28471209575007894.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<16116023.28471209575007894.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804301005k5f93836q6e5bcfa85289a3b4@mail.gmail.com>

Bill, how do you feel when your PC keep BSOD?

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Bill Littlejohn <billl at mtd-inc.com> wrote:
> > Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
> Because this is the Grand Rapids Linux Users Group. We are here to help with Linux related issues, not Windows ones.
> And you haven't asked nicely either.
> I suggest you RTFM.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> To: grlug at grlug.org
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:56:18 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>
> I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!
>
> I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license
>
> Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
>
> BSOD is very annoy to me!
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come out
> > will I consider it.
> >
> > Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal already.
> > From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
> > flavor of Linux. :)
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> > To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
> > Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
> >
> >
> > > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> > > damned
> > > BSOD!
> > >
> > > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> > > game
> > >
> > > two BSOD caused by
> > > -Intel ICH9
> > > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> > >
> > > My computer specs:
> > > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> > > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> > > BX80557E6850
> > > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> > > 2048MB)
> > > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> > > x16
> > > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> > > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> > > Energy Efficient, Modular
> > > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> > >
> > >
> > > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> > >
> > > my PSU link:
> > > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > > and it say SLi Certificated
> > >
> > > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ------------------
> > > Professor Inuyasha
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:05:43 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:05:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <001f01c8aae4$26107fa0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<001f01c8aae4$26107fa0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804301005l5aa545c5o924032b51d5c6f76@mail.gmail.com>

it is legal vista, I did report and I updated driver, still same issue

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> Have you reported any of these problems to Microsoft yet?  It is a legal
> Vista right?
>
> Rich
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>
>
> >I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!
> >
> > I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license
> >
> > Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
> >
> > BSOD is very annoy to me!
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net>
> > wrote:
> >> I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come
> >> out
> >> will I consider it.
> >>
> >> Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal
> >> already.
> >> From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
> >> flavor of Linux. :)
> >>
> >> Rich
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> >> To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
> >> Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> >> > damned
> >> > BSOD!
> >> >
> >> > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> >> > game
> >> >
> >> > two BSOD caused by
> >> > -Intel ICH9
> >> > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> >> >
> >> > My computer specs:
> >> > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> >> > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
> >> > Model
> >> > BX80557E6850
> >> > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> >> > 2048MB)
> >> > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> >> > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard
> >> > Drive
> >> > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> >> > x16
> >> > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> >> > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E
> >> > Ready,
> >> > Energy Efficient, Modular
> >> > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> >> >
> >> > my PSU link:
> >> > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> >> > and it say SLi Certificated
> >> >
> >> > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > ------------------
> >> > Professor Inuyasha
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > grlug mailing list
> >> > grlug at grlug.org
> >> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------
> > Professor Inuyasha
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:06:24 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:06:24 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <001f01c8aae4$26107fa0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<001f01c8aae4$26107fa0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301006x18a6e7eftb00639712dab3f32@mail.gmail.com>

So...  because it's apparent that at least one person on the list
hasn't read it yet, let's have some constructive education:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

--tim

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:07:08 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:07:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301005k5f93836q6e5bcfa85289a3b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<16116023.28471209575007894.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301005k5f93836q6e5bcfa85289a3b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301007u55d2aee1i92f41d635223738b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> Bill, how do you feel when your PC keep BSOD?

Bill is sitting right next to me, running Linux.  It doesn't BSOD.

--tim

From billl at mtd-inc.com  Wed Apr 30 13:11:16 2008
From: billl at mtd-inc.com (Bill Littlejohn)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:11:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301005k5f93836q6e5bcfa85289a3b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6591194.28501209575476841.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>

My PC does not BSOD, as I proudly run Linux.
If you refer to how I felt in the past, then I'll answer that it was really quite irritating. Hence my switch to something better.
I suggest you stop playing games, both on your computer and on this list, and do the same.
-1 troll

----- Original Message -----
From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
To: grlug at grlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:05:13 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD

Bill, how do you feel when your PC keep BSOD?

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Bill Littlejohn <billl at mtd-inc.com> wrote:
> > Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
> Because this is the Grand Rapids Linux Users Group. We are here to help with Linux related issues, not Windows ones.
> And you haven't asked nicely either.
> I suggest you RTFM.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> To: grlug at grlug.org
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:56:18 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>
> I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!
>
> I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license
>
> Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
>
> BSOD is very annoy to me!
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come out
> > will I consider it.
> >
> > Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal already.
> > From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
> > flavor of Linux. :)
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> > To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
> > Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
> >
> >
> > > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> > > damned
> > > BSOD!
> > >
> > > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> > > game
> > >
> > > two BSOD caused by
> > > -Intel ICH9
> > > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> > >
> > > My computer specs:
> > > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> > > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> > > BX80557E6850
> > > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> > > 2048MB)
> > > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> > > x16
> > > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> > > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> > > Energy Efficient, Modular
> > > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> > >
> > >
> > > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> > >
> > > my PSU link:
> > > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > > and it say SLi Certificated
> > >
> > > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ------------------
> > > Professor Inuyasha
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:13:02 2008
From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:13:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Vista BSOD annoy me
In-Reply-To: <mailman.733.1209573990.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
References: <mailman.733.1209573990.3996.grlug@grlug.org>
Message-ID: <000901c8aae5$738221c0$64c8a8c0@bigburner>

"Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?"

Professor Inuyasha,

Please, let me make a kind suggestion, because clearly you don't seem to
understand that you are asking for support of the Microsoft Windows
operating system on a LINUX USERS GROUP.  While many of us use multiple
operating systems, this is not the place for your request.  So, I suggest
that you subscribe to the West Michigan Networking Users Group, which has an
experienced and large Microsoft Windows membership.  Their website is
http://www.wmntug.org.  Good luck with Vista!

HTH


From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:26:25 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:26:25 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <6591194.28501209575476841.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804301005k5f93836q6e5bcfa85289a3b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<6591194.28501209575476841.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804301026s49bdc22dnbb791e88ff012dcf@mail.gmail.com>

Bill have no idea how I felt about BSOD since Bill is non-gamer

Thank Tom, I will take some test, only problem is ACPI and ICH9

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Bill Littlejohn <billl at mtd-inc.com> wrote:
> My PC does not BSOD, as I proudly run Linux.
> If you refer to how I felt in the past, then I'll answer that it was really quite irritating. Hence my switch to something better.
> I suggest you stop playing games, both on your computer and on this list, and do the same.
> -1 troll
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> To: grlug at grlug.org
>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:05:13 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
>
> Bill, how do you feel when your PC keep BSOD?
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Bill Littlejohn <billl at mtd-inc.com> wrote:
> > > Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
> > Because this is the Grand Rapids Linux Users Group. We are here to help with Linux related issues, not Windows ones.
> > And you haven't asked nicely either.
> > I suggest you RTFM.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> > To: grlug at grlug.org
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:56:18 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
> > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
> >
> > I dont care about Vista, I want stop damned BSOD!!!!!!!!
> >
> > I can run pirated XP SP2 because I memorized pirated license
> >
> > Why cant everyone just help me to stop BSOD?
> >
> > BSOD is very annoy to me!
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > > I'd love to help but I refuse to go to Vista.  Maybe when SP3 has come out
> > > will I consider it.
> > >
> > > Besides, I've spent enough money getting all my XP Pro boxes legal already.
> > > From now on, the only OS installs will be either XP Pro, Win2003 or some
> > > flavor of Linux. :)
> > >
> > > Rich
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> > > To: <grlug at grlug.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:06 PM
> > > Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> > > > damned
> > > > BSOD!
> > > >
> > > > I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> > > > game
> > > >
> > > > two BSOD caused by
> > > > -Intel ICH9
> > > > -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
> > > >
> > > > My computer specs:
> > > > ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> > > > Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model
> > > > BX80557E6850
> > > > Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> > > > 2048MB)
> > > > Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > > > Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> > > > DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI Express
> > > > x16
> > > > HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> > > > Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E Ready,
> > > > Energy Efficient, Modular
> > > > SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think I might got wrong PSU......
> > > >
> > > > my PSU link:
> > > > http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> > > > and it say SLi Certificated
> > > >
> > > > my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ------------------
> > > > Professor Inuyasha
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > grlug mailing list
> > > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------
> > Professor Inuyasha
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From flanderb at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:26:27 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:26:27 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
Message-ID: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>

The recent request for some geek help seems to have hit a bad nerve
with some of you.  This isn't the first nerve that has come under
direct stimulation in the recent past.  I am becoming increasingly
disturbed at some of the unhelpful and negative comments we are
getting on the list.  Would I be over stepping my bounds if I ask that
if you don't have anything to nice to say, don't say anything at all?

-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:38:37 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:38:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
> The recent request for some geek help seems to have hit a bad nerve
>  with some of you.  This isn't the first nerve that has come under
>  direct stimulation in the recent past.  I am becoming increasingly
>  disturbed at some of the unhelpful and negative comments we are
>  getting on the list.  Would I be over stepping my bounds if I ask that
>  if you don't have anything to nice to say, don't say anything at all?

I'm sorry...  I read through the thread and see fairly polite
explanations of why this probably isn't the right place to ask such a
question, how and where to ask such questions, and even some possible
solutions - despite some hostility and an apparent sense of
entitlement on the part of the person asking the question.

I don't understand how such useful and, frankly, tolerant responses disturb you.

--tim

From tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 13:40:44 2008
From: tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:40:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15f732370804301040i47f290q475a7d86f9cda68d@mail.gmail.com>

Another thing that might help make those of you who did engage in the
hostilities understand why it is important to just sometimes keep it to
yourself, is you may be turning Linux converts away. Wouldn't also be better
to help him out and then point out how Linux may have helped him better
identify the problems he was having? Think diplomatically welcome the
person, help them along the way and convince them that Linux is better than
say windows or whatever OS they may be having a problem with.

I may be new on your list but I have been a member of Linux user groups for
well over 12 years. And I have seen this from time to time and its better to
help the person out and then see them slowly move towards linux solutions.

Tom

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com>
wrote:

> The recent request for some geek help seems to have hit a bad nerve
> with some of you.  This isn't the first nerve that has come under
> direct stimulation in the recent past.  I am becoming increasingly
> disturbed at some of the unhelpful and negative comments we are
> getting on the list.  Would I be over stepping my bounds if I ask that
> if you don't have anything to nice to say, don't say anything at all?
>
> --
> Share and Enjoy
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com
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From adderd at kkmfg.com  Wed Apr 30 13:48:00 2008
From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:48:00 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com>

Tim Schmidt wrote:
> I'm sorry...  I read through the thread and see fairly polite
> explanations of why this probably isn't the right place to ask such a
> question, how and where to ask such questions, and even some possible
> solutions - despite some hostility and an apparent sense of
> entitlement on the part of the person asking the question.
>
> I don't understand how such useful and, frankly, tolerant responses disturb you.
>
> --tim
>   

I think that you may be suffering from temporary blindness. I thought 
that people's attitudes towards the original poster seemed somewhat sour 
from the get go. Yes, he escalated the situation even worse thereafter. 
But it started with smart alec comments from pro-linux people first. He 
asked a legitimate question which could have been answered simply 
enough. It should have made people feel good that the original poster 
trusted the technical expertise of the people on this list. I guess 
he'll think twice on that theory from now on...

From adderd at kkmfg.com  Wed Apr 30 13:51:58 2008
From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:51:58 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>

Collin wrote:
> I think that you may be suffering from temporary blindness. I thought 
> that people's attitudes towards the original poster seemed somewhat sour 
> from the get go. Yes, he escalated the situation even worse thereafter. 
> But it started with smart alec comments from pro-linux people first. He 
> asked a legitimate question which could have been answered simply 
> enough. It should have made people feel good that the original poster 
> trusted the technical expertise of the people on this list. I guess 
> he'll think twice on that theory from now on...
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>   


Sheesh... I should learn to read before I post... It does seem like Tim 
is right and largely the discussion wasn't hostile until the original 
poster got lippy... Sorry Tim.

From billl at mtd-inc.com  Wed Apr 30 13:59:57 2008
From: billl at mtd-inc.com (Bill Littlejohn)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:59:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <23258550.28781209578397883.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>

Apologies, as you are correct that it may be better to keep comments positive.
However, requests for completely off-topic support should be met with a constructive pointer in the right direction, a reminder that this list is not for Windows (or more particularly Windows ACPI or Intel device driver) support, and if necessary a reminder that asking questions the right way is necessary.
I believe that he got all of those in sum total.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin Flanders" <flanderb at gmail.com>
To: grlug at grlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:26:27 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes

The recent request for some geek help seems to have hit a bad nerve
with some of you.  This isn't the first nerve that has come under
direct stimulation in the recent past.  I am becoming increasingly
disturbed at some of the unhelpful and negative comments we are
getting on the list.  Would I be over stepping my bounds if I ask that
if you don't have anything to nice to say, don't say anything at all?

-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:06:26 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:06:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301106t5734d057scfa5e4073e5528a3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>  Sheesh... I should learn to read before I post... It does seem like Tim
>  is right and largely the discussion wasn't hostile until the original
>  poster got lippy... Sorry Tim.

No problem.

Glad I got this one before firing off the exhaustive "87 reasons
you're wrong" missive I was working on.  ;)

Seriously though, there are so many variables left out of the original
question, including any demonstration of effort expended to solve said
problem, that there's no way one could reasonably expect anyone - even
a Windows Vista expert to solve said problem over email.

This is why OEM support channels and computer repair shops exist.

--tim

From flanderb at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:06:35 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:06:35 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>

It is true that the hostilities started with the Prof.  I am not sure
exactly what he/she was trying to put forth with the whole "oh shadda
up!" business.  Was he trying to be funny, insulting ...  I don't
know.  I don't think he/she is a native english speaker.

I don't think, however, that responding in kind is appropriate.

If he insulted you then stop helping him and delete the e-mail.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> Collin wrote:
>  > I think that you may be suffering from temporary blindness. I thought
>  > that people's attitudes towards the original poster seemed somewhat sour
>  > from the get go. Yes, he escalated the situation even worse thereafter.
>  > But it started with smart alec comments from pro-linux people first. He
>  > asked a legitimate question which could have been answered simply
>  > enough. It should have made people feel good that the original poster
>  > trusted the technical expertise of the people on this list. I guess
>  > he'll think twice on that theory from now on...
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >
>
>
>  Sheesh... I should learn to read before I post... It does seem like Tim
>  is right and largely the discussion wasn't hostile until the original
>  poster got lippy... Sorry Tim.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:11:10 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:11:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>

ben,

reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
better than windows, I just want get my PC beecome 100% stable instead
80%

"native english speaker"

I am not native english speaker
I am deaf and I only use american sign language.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is true that the hostilities started with the Prof.  I am not sure
> exactly what he/she was trying to put forth with the whole "oh shadda
> up!" business.  Was he trying to be funny, insulting ...  I don't
> know.  I don't think he/she is a native english speaker.
>
> I don't think, however, that responding in kind is appropriate.
>
> If he insulted you then stop helping him and delete the e-mail.
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>
> > Collin wrote:
> >  > I think that you may be suffering from temporary blindness. I thought
> >  > that people's attitudes towards the original poster seemed somewhat sour
> >  > from the get go. Yes, he escalated the situation even worse thereafter.
> >  > But it started with smart alec comments from pro-linux people first. He
> >  > asked a legitimate question which could have been answered simply
> >  > enough. It should have made people feel good that the original poster
> >  > trusted the technical expertise of the people on this list. I guess
> >  > he'll think twice on that theory from now on...
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > grlug mailing list
> >  > grlug at grlug.org
> >  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >  >
> >
> >
> >  Sheesh... I should learn to read before I post... It does seem like Tim
> >  is right and largely the discussion wasn't hostile until the original
> >  poster got lippy... Sorry Tim.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  grlug mailing list
> >  grlug at grlug.org
> >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Share and Enjoy
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:19:27 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:19:27 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301119i8edcc41l84b3f132fed3ccc9@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is true that the hostilities started with the Prof.  I am not sure
>  exactly what he/she was trying to put forth with the whole "oh shadda
>  up!" business.  Was he trying to be funny, insulting ...  I don't
>  know.  I don't think he/she is a native english speaker.
>
>  I don't think, however, that responding in kind is appropriate.
>
>  If he insulted you then stop helping him and delete the e-mail.

So, re-reading through the thread, perhaps the most 'in kind' reply I
could find is from me:

----
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> oh shadda up!
>
>  I need know how to stop BSOD on windows because I'm running games on
>  windows......

And I care why?
----

Which is a legitimate question.  Bluntly phrased, sure.  But the
normal motivation for fixing these sorts of issues isn't present
(Linux isn't involved), so I'm literally asking him to make his case.
What is my (our) motivation to help?

Were you thinking of some other post?

Again, I fail to see where anyone crossed the line.

--tim

From slestak989 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:20:20 2008
From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:20:20 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef8ba6540804301120y4198f71co2744c2ff77cc5ce5@mail.gmail.com>

getting vista 100% stable on any machine is going to be a tall order.
just my 2 cents.

From networkman at triton.net  Wed Apr 30 14:21:06 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:21:06 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301040i47f290q475a7d86f9cda68d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004c01c8aaee$f50d3140$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Just so you know, at a guess I'm probably one of those that is newest to Linux.  And while I'm not a convert yet, this thread has in no way negatively affected my interest in Linux one way or the other. I'm rather enjoying the banter thus far.  I liken this whole thread as not much different than the support forums on the Anandtech website, of which I have been a member since about April of 2000.  http://forums.anandtech.com/ 

Apologies if this is breaking the rules in some way, promoting another site web-site, but I've found support for my questions in their support forums countless times, regardless of the hardware or operating system.

Every group has periodic squabbles - this little spat is nothing new to me.

Peace.



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tom Warren 
  To: grlug at grlug.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes


  Another thing that might help make those of you who did engage in the hostilities understand why it is important to just sometimes keep it to yourself, is you may be turning Linux converts away. Wouldn't also be better to help him out and then point out how Linux may have helped him better identify the problems he was having? Think diplomatically welcome the person, help them along the way and convince them that Linux is better than say windows or whatever OS they may be having a problem with. 

  I may be new on your list but I have been a member of Linux user groups for well over 12 years. And I have seen this from time to time and its better to help the person out and then see them slowly move towards linux solutions.

  Tom


  On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:

    The recent request for some geek help seems to have hit a bad nerve
    with some of you.  This isn't the first nerve that has come under
    direct stimulation in the recent past.  I am becoming increasingly
    disturbed at some of the unhelpful and negative comments we are
    getting on the list.  Would I be over stepping my bounds if I ask that
    if you don't have anything to nice to say, don't say anything at all?

    --
    Share and Enjoy
    Ben
    _______________________________________________
    grlug mailing list
    grlug at grlug.org
    http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug




  -- 
  Tom Warren
  meijer ITS Enterprise Storage 
  Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
  tomewarren at gmail.com 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  grlug mailing list
  grlug at grlug.org
  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:21:44 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:21:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
>  reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
>  better than windows,

Perhaps not the best idea on a Linux user group mailing list.

How can I relate this to something else...  "like walking into a biker
bar and yelling 'harleys suck!'...  then asking for help".

--tim

From billl at mtd-inc.com  Wed Apr 30 14:33:41 2008
From: billl at mtd-inc.com (Bill Littlejohn)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:33:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <10090457.28961209580421790.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>

In the interest of providing you the best possible information to help with your problem and your public relations issues for today..
If you really want your PC 100% as stable as it can be, then you really should ask your question on a list dedicated to Windows issues. They will be more equipped to walk you through the necessary basic troubleshooting steps and provide the resources you will need to get 100% stability on Vista.
You may want to keep in mind that it's reasonable to assume that any Linux user group will have a few people willing to say that Linux is better than Windows. You should not be particularly surprised by this.
Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
To: grlug at grlug.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 2:11:10 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes

ben,

reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
better than windows, I just want get my PC beecome 100% stable instead
80%

"native english speaker"

I am not native english speaker
I am deaf and I only use american sign language.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is true that the hostilities started with the Prof.  I am not sure
> exactly what he/she was trying to put forth with the whole "oh shadda
> up!" business.  Was he trying to be funny, insulting ...  I don't
> know.  I don't think he/she is a native english speaker.
>
> I don't think, however, that responding in kind is appropriate.
>
> If he insulted you then stop helping him and delete the e-mail.
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>
> > Collin wrote:
> >  > I think that you may be suffering from temporary blindness. I thought
> >  > that people's attitudes towards the original poster seemed somewhat sour
> >  > from the get go. Yes, he escalated the situation even worse thereafter.
> >  > But it started with smart alec comments from pro-linux people first. He
> >  > asked a legitimate question which could have been answered simply
> >  > enough. It should have made people feel good that the original poster
> >  > trusted the technical expertise of the people on this list. I guess
> >  > he'll think twice on that theory from now on...
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > grlug mailing list
> >  > grlug at grlug.org
> >  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >  >
> >
> >
> >  Sheesh... I should learn to read before I post... It does seem like Tim
> >  is right and largely the discussion wasn't hostile until the original
> >  poster got lippy... Sorry Tim.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >  grlug mailing list
> >  grlug at grlug.org
> >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Share and Enjoy
> Ben
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From flanderb at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:36:08 2008
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:36:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Professor Inuyasha
>  <profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >  reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
>  >  better than windows,
>
>  Perhaps not the best idea on a Linux user group mailing list.
>
>  How can I relate this to something else...  "like walking into a biker
>  bar and yelling 'harleys suck!'...  then asking for help".
>
>  --tim
>

In total agreement with you here Tim.

I just wish that instead of responding like a bunch of bikers(O.K. we
weren't really that bad) we could have ignored his rudeness and helped
him.

In the end he got some really good advice and a place he could get
some more help.  I guess it was the elitist attitude and extra
responses he received that prompted this call for politeness.



>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From dond at standalelumber.com  Wed Apr 30 14:37:39 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:37:39 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <10090457.28961209580421790.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
References: <10090457.28961209580421790.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
Message-ID: <1209580659.9157.6.camel@donw-laptop>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:33 -0400, Bill Littlejohn wrote:

> In the interest of providing you the best possible information to help with your problem and your public relations issues for today..
> If you really want your PC 100% as stable as it can be, then you really should ask your question on a list dedicated to Windows issues. They will be more equipped to walk you through the necessary basic troubleshooting steps and provide the resources you will need to get 100% stability on Vista.
> You may want to keep in mind that it's reasonable to assume that any Linux user group will have a few people willing to say that Linux is better than Windows. You should not be particularly surprised by this.
> Bill
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Professor Inuyasha" <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
> To: grlug at grlug.org
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 2:11:10 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
> Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
> 
> ben,
> 
> reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
> better than windows, I just want get my PC beecome 100% stable instead
> 80%
> 
> "native english speaker"
> 
> I am not native english speaker
> I am deaf and I only use american sign language.
> 
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It is true that the hostilities started with the Prof.  I am not sure
> > exactly what he/she was trying to put forth with the whole "oh shadda
> > up!" business.  Was he trying to be funny, insulting ...  I don't
> > know.  I don't think he/she is a native english speaker.
> >
> > I don't think, however, that responding in kind is appropriate.
> >
> > If he insulted you then stop helping him and delete the e-mail.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Collin wrote:
> > >  > I think that you may be suffering from temporary blindness. I thought
> > >  > that people's attitudes towards the original poster seemed somewhat sour
> > >  > from the get go. Yes, he escalated the situation even worse thereafter.
> > >  > But it started with smart alec comments from pro-linux people first. He
> > >  > asked a legitimate question which could have been answered simply
> > >  > enough. It should have made people feel good that the original poster
> > >  > trusted the technical expertise of the people on this list. I guess
> > >  > he'll think twice on that theory from now on...
> > >  > _______________________________________________
> > >  > grlug mailing list
> > >  > grlug at grlug.org
> > >  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Sheesh... I should learn to read before I post... It does seem like Tim
> > >  is right and largely the discussion wasn't hostile until the original
> > >  poster got lippy... Sorry Tim.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >  grlug mailing list
> > >  grlug at grlug.org
> > >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Share and Enjoy
> > Ben
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> 
> 


Besides we're too busy deciding if we should answer and if anyone that
has answered has offended you. This is better than Jerry Springer
sometimes.

> 
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:43:43 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:43:43 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I just wish that instead of responding like a bunch of bikers(O.K. we
>  weren't really that bad) we could have ignored his rudeness and helped
>  him.

No, we weren't that bad.  And there simply isn't enough information to
help him.  No BSOD text.  No core dumps (or whatever the Win32
equivalent is), no detailed information at all.  If this were a bug
report, it would be deleted for gross incompleteness.

>  In the end he got some really good advice and a place he could get
>  some more help.  I guess it was the elitist attitude and extra
>  responses he received that prompted this call for politeness.

I think the 'elitist attitude' is all in your perception.  Could you
point out an example?

--tim

From tehpopa at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:53:10 2008
From: tehpopa at gmail.com (Justin Popa)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:53:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>

I really don't care that a guy asked a Windows question in the group. Sure,
it's a Linux group but we all know how to diagnose Windows(I think?).
Anyway, he was pointed to where he should go, and that we really can't give
him the help he needs. Aside from that, as Tim said, we didn't have enough
information anyway. But whatever, reading email after email of that I could
care less if we were hostile or not.

Side note:

When did half demons become professors? o_O

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >  I just wish that instead of responding like a bunch of bikers(O.K. we
> >  weren't really that bad) we could have ignored his rudeness and helped
> >  him.
>
> No, we weren't that bad.  And there simply isn't enough information to
> help him.  No BSOD text.  No core dumps (or whatever the Win32
> equivalent is), no detailed information at all.  If this were a bug
> report, it would be deleted for gross incompleteness.
>
> >  In the end he got some really good advice and a place he could get
> >  some more help.  I guess it was the elitist attitude and extra
> >  responses he received that prompted this call for politeness.
>
> I think the 'elitist attitude' is all in your perception.  Could you
> point out an example?
>
> --tim
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:57:48 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:57:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Justin Popa <tehpopa at gmail.com> wrote:
> we all know how to diagnose Windows(I think?).

You think wrong.  Especially when it comes to Vista.

--tim

From tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:00:12 2008
From: tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:00:12 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>

Tim please don't speak for everyone... I for one have to work in lots
of relms, Unix, Linux and Windows.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Justin Popa <tehpopa at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > we all know how to diagnose Windows(I think?).
>
>  You think wrong.  Especially when it comes to Vista.
>
>
>
>  --tim
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:06:24 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:06:24 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804301206v5895e421r800eca79fa49cfaf@mail.gmail.com>

I think we better stop argue each other.....

if continue then it will become pointless, anyway only 2 guys helped
me and pointed me to right subject.

Thank to Douglas & Tom

and no thank to Tim & Bill

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Tom Warren <tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tim please don't speak for everyone... I for one have to work in lots
> of relms, Unix, Linux and Windows.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Justin Popa <tehpopa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > we all know how to diagnose Windows(I think?).
> >
> >  You think wrong.  Especially when it comes to Vista.
> >
> >
> >
> >  --tim
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  grlug mailing list
> >  grlug at grlug.org
> >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Warren
> meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
> Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
> tomewarren at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
>
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:06:47 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:06:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301206o26550510h1c12b8702d9508b8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Tom Warren <tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tim please don't speak for everyone... I for one have to work in lots
>  of relms, Unix, Linux and Windows.

I'm not.  Justin said he thought we all knew how to diagnose Windows.
One person, me, is enough to prove that statement false.  I speak for
no one but myself.

--tim

From tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:09:17 2008
From: tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:09:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301206o26550510h1c12b8702d9508b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301206o26550510h1c12b8702d9508b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15f732370804301209s61f53b58u169174228c983235@mail.gmail.com>

No where in your reply did you state you were speaking for yourself.
But we digress again... I'm done with this banter I have work to get
done.

Tom

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:00 PM, Tom Warren <tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Tim please don't speak for everyone... I for one have to work in lots
>  >  of relms, Unix, Linux and Windows.
>
>  I'm not.  Justin said he thought we all knew how to diagnose Windows.
>  One person, me, is enough to prove that statement false.  I speak for
>  no one but myself.
>
>
>
>  --tim
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:10:17 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:10:17 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301206v5895e421r800eca79fa49cfaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301206v5895e421r800eca79fa49cfaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301210s76f46acfo720f00950a83fcc4@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think we better stop argue each other.....
>
>  if continue then it will become pointless, anyway only 2 guys helped
>  me and pointed me to right subject.
>
>  Thank to Douglas & Tom
>
>  and no thank to Tim & Bill

You're welcome anyway.  Hopefully you read the link I sent sometime.

--tim

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:12:26 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:12:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <15f732370804301209s61f53b58u169174228c983235@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301206o26550510h1c12b8702d9508b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301209s61f53b58u169174228c983235@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301212n610d2b6dx5c1f9a6a2c6cf5d0@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Tom Warren <tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com> wrote:
> No where in your reply did you state you were speaking for yourself.
>  But we digress again... I'm done with this banter I have work to get
>  done.

I apologize.  Next time I attempt to disprove a blanket statement with
a single example, I'll make sure to mention that it might only be "a
little bit false".

--tim

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:19:14 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:19:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301212n610d2b6dx5c1f9a6a2c6cf5d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca1715f80804301153s2d2a9378t2a800e31c669bc12@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301157l44bb8426i6c5244b9bd359a3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301200ic4a8329pef3b21ee583b5c1a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301206o26550510h1c12b8702d9508b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<15f732370804301209s61f53b58u169174228c983235@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301212n610d2b6dx5c1f9a6a2c6cf5d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301219x6cf5237s7c19a44b3fd56e98@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Tom Warren <tomewarren+grlug at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > No where in your reply did you state you were speaking for yourself.
>  >  But we digress again... I'm done with this banter I have work to get
>  >  done.
>
>  I apologize.  Next time I attempt to disprove a blanket statement with
>  a single example, I'll make sure to mention that it might only be "a
>  little bit false".

I think what I was getting at, in my usually sarcastic way, was saying
"where did I say I wasn't [speaking for myself]?"  Alternatively,
where did I mention I was speaking for everyone?

--tim

From adderd at kkmfg.com  Wed Apr 30 15:37:14 2008
From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:37:14 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
Message-ID: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>

This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...

I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the 
world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not 
so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us). 
Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this? 
If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail 
filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?

I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts 
show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put 
in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address... 
Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.

From profinuyasha at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:41:38 2008
From: profinuyasha at gmail.com (Professor Inuyasha)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:41:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <aecf8abe0804301241r7c549666p5794e8403eea0ae8@mail.gmail.com>

Collin, I got your  mail

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
>
> I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the
> world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not
> so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us).
> Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this?
> If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail
> filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
>
> I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts
> show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put
> in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address...
> Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
------------------
Professor Inuyasha

From networkman at triton.net  Wed Apr 30 15:45:02 2008
From: networkman at triton.net (Rich Nagel)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:45:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <00e101c8aafa$aea62890$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>

Other than a flurry of recent genuine GRLUG posts, I haven't noticed 
anything out of the ordinary.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Collin" <adderd at kkmfg.com>
To: <grlug at grlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload


> This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
>
> I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the
> world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not
> so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us).
> Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this?
> If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail
> filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
>
> I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts
> show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put
> in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address...
> Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> 


From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:45:05 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:45:05 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:

> This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
>
> I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the
> world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not
> so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us).
> Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this?
> If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail
> filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
>
> I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts
> show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put
> in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address...
> Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that our incoming spam
jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the beginning of the
year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to only be getting
worse.
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From dond at standalelumber.com  Wed Apr 30 15:46:03 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:46:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <1209584763.9157.13.camel@donw-laptop>

I've had it here before but never to that scale.

-  
Don Wood
IT Admin
Standale Lumber
616.340.2383 mobile
616.530.1145 desk


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 15:37 -0400, Collin wrote:

> This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
> 
> I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the 
> world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not 
> so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us). 
> Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this? 
> If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail 
> filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
> 
> I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts 
> show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put 
> in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address... 
> Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
-------------- next part --------------
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From casey at grlug.org  Wed Apr 30 15:48:04 2008
From: casey at grlug.org (Casey DuBois)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:48:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>
>
> > This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
> >
> > I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the
> > world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not
> > so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us).
> > Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this?
> > If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail
> > filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
> >
> > I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts
> > show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put
> > in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address...
> > Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that our incoming spam
> jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the beginning of the
> year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to only be getting
> worse.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

I have also noticed a huge jump in the spam I receive from someone
using my e-mail and have been concerned about it.
My techs say not to worry but Collin's post makes me wonder if there
is something we may be missing.

Casey

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:51:32 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:51:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301251q4c9e7466qd1a8a7f05eb5f34a@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:
>  I have also noticed a huge jump in the spam I receive from someone
>  using my e-mail and have been concerned about it.
>  My techs say not to worry but Collin's post makes me wonder if there
>  is something we may be missing.

http://lwn.net/Articles/277304/

Notice the date, then repent for not reading LWN.  ;)

--tim

From dond at standalelumber.com  Wed Apr 30 15:52:27 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:52:27 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>	
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>	
	<f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209585147.9157.18.camel@donw-laptop>

There are alot more bots now and once they cull your and everyone else's
address book on your network it's all over but the crying. I had a
rootkit mailbot on a windows machine here a couple months ago and a
faulty firewall rule that wasn't blocking outgoing smtp traffic except
from our email server. The amount of connections was pretty amazing and
I still get rejection mail from time to time. 

-  
Don Wood
IT Admin
Standale Lumber
616.340.2383 mobile
616.530.1145 desk


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 15:48 -0400, Casey DuBois wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
> > >
> > > I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the
> > > world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not
> > > so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us).
> > > Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this?
> > > If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail
> > > filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
> > >
> > > I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts
> > > show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put
> > > in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address...
> > > Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> > I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that our incoming spam
> > jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the beginning of the
> > year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to only be getting
> > worse.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> 
> I have also noticed a huge jump in the spam I receive from someone
> using my e-mail and have been concerned about it.
> My techs say not to worry but Collin's post makes me wonder if there
> is something we may be missing.
> 
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:52:49 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:52:49 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
	<f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930804301252q7bdd331eydbcafd7e26437b6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Casey DuBois <casey at grlug.org> wrote:

>
> I have also noticed a huge jump in the spam I receive from someone
> using my e-mail and have been concerned about it.
> My techs say not to worry but Collin's post makes me wonder if there
> is something we may be missing.
>
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

I had this situation with my boss's email address a few years ago. I traced
the IP address of the sending computer to a small, local ISP. I then sat in
their office for a few hours until they got annoyed with me and contacted
the owner of the infected computer.
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From dond at standalelumber.com  Wed Apr 30 15:54:19 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:54:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <1209585147.9157.18.camel@donw-laptop>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>	
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>	
	<f0ffba670804301248j50cced48r7ec75bf93b981bfe@mail.gmail.com>	
	<1209585147.9157.18.camel@donw-laptop>
Message-ID: <1209585260.9157.22.camel@donw-laptop>





On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 15:52 -0400, Don Wood wrote:

> There are alot more bots now and once they cull your and everyone
> else's address book on your network it's all over but the crying. I
> had a rootkit mailbot on a windows machine here a couple months ago
> and a faulty firewall rule that wasn't blocking outgoing smtp traffic
> except from our email server. The amount of connections was pretty
> amazing and I still get rejection mail from time to time. 
> 
> -  
> Don Wood
> IT Admin
> Standale Lumber
> 616.340.2383 mobile
> 616.530.1145 desk
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 15:48 -0400, Casey DuBois wrote: 
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
> > > >
> > > > I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all
> > over the
> > > > world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address
> > for not
> > > > so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be
> > us).
> > > > Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting
> > this?
> > > > If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it?
> > Use a mail
> > > > filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be
> > lost too)?
> > > >
> > > > I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other
> > posts
> > > > show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously
> > that I put
> > > > in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email
> > address...
> > > > Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > grlug mailing list
> > > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> > > I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that our
> > incoming spam
> > > jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the
> > beginning of the
> > > year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to only be
> > getting
> > > worse.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> > 
> > I have also noticed a huge jump in the spam I receive from someone
> > using my e-mail and have been concerned about it.
> > My techs say not to worry but Collin's post makes me wonder if there
> > is something we may be missing.
> > 
> > Casey
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


Argh! Top posted!

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From topher at wcsg.org  Wed Apr 30 15:52:34 2008
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:52:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301547460.26905@boktor>

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Collin wrote:

> I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the 
> world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not 
> so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us). 
> Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this? 
> If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail 
> filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?

Yes, we've had that a couple times here in the last month.  It's called a 
Joe Job, you can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job

There's not much you can do about it.  During the fallout from something 
like that, I *do* blackhole bounce reports.  It's just not worth dealing 
with them.

Topher
Manager of Internet Services
Cornerstone University Radio

------
"Don't worry!  I'm a super hero!  I take care of monsters and sharks!"
                         -- Molly, to a friend

From thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 16:04:18 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:04:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0804301304s3242f0b9gb56656305a25e80@mail.gmail.com>

many of the people at my company have had the same problem recently. I
updated my postfix configuration, implemented gray-listing and SPF.
That seemed to fix the problem, at least we no long receive the bouce
(Undelverable type) emails.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>
>
> > This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
> >
> > I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the
> > world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not
> > so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us).
> > Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this?
> > If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail
> > filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
> >
> > I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts
> > show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put
> > in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address...
> > Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
> I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that our incoming spam
> jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the beginning of the
> year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to only be getting
> worse.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From brousch at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 16:11:39 2008
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:11:39 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <cea1322a0804301304s3242f0b9gb56656305a25e80@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
	<cea1322a0804301304s3242f0b9gb56656305a25e80@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930804301311o671205b3s495c2736029f5d95@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Joe Vanderstelt <
thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com <thisboyiscrazy%2Bgrlug at gmail.com>> wrote:

> many of the people at my company have had the same problem recently. I
> updated my postfix configuration, implemented gray-listing and SPF.
> That seemed to fix the problem, at least we no long receive the bouce
> (Undelverable type) emails.
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:<http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
> >
> > I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that our incoming
> spam
> > jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the beginning of
> the
> > year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to only be
> getting
> > worse.
>
> <http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug>
>

My spam filter (spamassassin w/ bayes + a couple rbls + SARE) is still
filtering very well - very few spams get through to my users' Inboxes.
However the mail server is working quite a bit harder with all the extra
filtering. The 15 minute load average is up from about 0.1 to 0.35.
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From dond at standalelumber.com  Wed Apr 30 16:16:22 2008
From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:16:22 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930804301311o671205b3s495c2736029f5d95@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>	
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>	
	<cea1322a0804301304s3242f0b9gb56656305a25e80@mail.gmail.com>	
	<d92a2d930804301311o671205b3s495c2736029f5d95@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209586582.9157.27.camel@donw-laptop>




On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 16:11 -0400, Ben Rousch wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Joe Vanderstelt <thisboyiscrazy
> +grlug at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>         many of the people at my company have had the same problem
>         recently. I
>         updated my postfix configuration, implemented gray-listing and
>         SPF.
>         That seemed to fix the problem, at least we no long receive
>         the bouce
>         (Undelverable type) emails.
>         
>         
>         On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Ben Rousch
>         <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
>         >
>         > I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that
>         our incoming spam
>         > jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the
>         beginning of the
>         > year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to
>         only be getting
>         > worse.
>         
>         
> 
> My spam filter (spamassassin w/ bayes + a couple rbls + SARE) is still
> filtering very well - very few spams get through to my users' Inboxes.
> However the mail server is working quite a bit harder with all the
> extra filtering. The 15 minute load average is up from about 0.1 to
> 0.35.


Do you have a firewall that you can employ rbls on? I recently did that
here and dropped the workload on our mail server.


>  
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Apr 30 16:18:31 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:18:31 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <1209586711.3965.7.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 15:37 -0400, Collin wrote:
> This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
> 
> I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the 
> world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not 
> so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us). 
> Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this? 
> If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail 
> filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
> 
> I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts 
> show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put 
> in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address... 
> Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.

In an average month, I reject 5M-10M e-mails a month.

Most are from bots trying to deliver to (or through) my server, but
don't follow the RFCs for compliance (mostly for RFC822). They don't
make it past my pre-scanner SA-Exim.

For the 50K or so per month that *DO* make it then get fully SA scanned
and then either sorted to spam or plain dumped to /dev/null.

I've been dealing with SPAM and "reject notifications" which exacerbate
the bandwidth used... from "Polite" Systems admins... which should only
notify those that are *NOT* classified as spam, that are
rejected/bounced/etc.

And No Casey you guys aren't missing anything. If our e-mail addresses
are on any "archive" some where web accessible... robot-website-scrapers
will grab your e-mail address and use it for either sending to or
spoofing from.

I gave up trying to "0Bf5C471N6" my stuff as it was more effort than
just dealing with the flood and diverting it.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 16:24:35 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:24:35 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <1209586582.9157.27.camel@donw-laptop>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<d92a2d930804301245p4421922fncd7c69808ef03bd1@mail.gmail.com>
	<cea1322a0804301304s3242f0b9gb56656305a25e80@mail.gmail.com>
	<d92a2d930804301311o671205b3s495c2736029f5d95@mail.gmail.com>
	<1209586582.9157.27.camel@donw-laptop>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0804301324l2aa954e2x31d3eb5d6ea9e5e8@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Don Wood <dond at standalelumber.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 16:11 -0400, Ben Rousch wrote:
>
>  On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Joe Vanderstelt
> <thisboyiscrazy+grlug at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  many of the people at my company have had the same problem recently. I
>  updated my postfix configuration, implemented gray-listing and SPF.
>  That seemed to fix the problem, at least we no long receive the bouce
>  (Undelverable type) emails.
>
>
>  On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Ben Rousch <brousch at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > I don't really have an answer for you, but I noticed that our incoming
> spam
>  > jumped up 100% in the last 2 days. It is up 1000% since the beginning of
> the
>  > year. I was hoping the flood would abate, but it seems to only be getting
>  > worse.
>
>
>
>
>  My spam filter (spamassassin w/ bayes + a couple rbls + SARE) is still
> filtering very well - very few spams get through to my users' Inboxes.
> However the mail server is working quite a bit harder with all the extra
> filtering. The 15 minute load average is up from about 0.1 to 0.35.
>
>  Do you have a firewall that you can employ rbls on? I recently did that
> here and dropped the workload on our mail server.
>
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

Are you using a RBL on the TCP/IP connection or at the email level?
If you are doing it at the TCP/IP level, what firewall and what RBL's
are you using?

From jjfoerch at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 30 16:29:09 2008
From: jjfoerch at earthlink.net (John J Foerch)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:29:09 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG]  Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18456.54933.548504.732678@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Benjamin Flanders writes:
 > The recent request for some geek help seems to have hit a bad nerve
 > with some of you.  This isn't the first nerve that has come under
 > direct stimulation in the recent past.  I am becoming increasingly
 > disturbed at some of the unhelpful and negative comments we are
 > getting on the list.  Would I be over stepping my bounds if I ask that
 > if you don't have anything to nice to say, don't say anything at all?

 Thank you.

-- 
John Foerch

From adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 16:54:38 2008
From: adamtaunowilliams at gmail.com (Adam Tauno Williams)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:54:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209588878.9686.5.camel@WM_ADAM1.morrison.iserv.net>

> >  >  reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
> >  >  better than windows,
> >  Perhaps not the best idea on a Linux user group mailing list
> >  How can I relate this to something else...  "like walking into a biker
> >  bar and yelling 'harleys suck!'...  then asking for help".
> In total agreement with you here Tim.
> I just wish that instead of responding like a bunch of bikers(O.K. we
> weren't really that bad) we could have ignored his rudeness and helped
> him.

I actually think that would be bad.  If you start answering questions
to-be-nice then what questions don't you answer?  Does the intentions or
topic of your list/forum mean anything at all?  The list/forum will
degenerate into a topic about "miscellaneous".

It is entirely reasonable, and civil, to expect someone to ask medical
questions at a doctor's office, automotive questions at a mechanic's
shop, and baggage questions at an airlines checking counter.  Forums and
lists are absolutely no difference.   The fault lies with the person who
posts an inappropriate question.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams, Network & Systems Administrator
Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com
Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org


From stro at gnomedesktop.org  Wed Apr 30 16:43:38 2008
From: stro at gnomedesktop.org (Stro)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:43:38 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301547460.26905@boktor>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0804301547460.26905@boktor>
Message-ID: <1209588218.4987.19.camel@localhost.localdomain>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 15:52 -0400, Topher wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Collin wrote:
> 
> > I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the 
> > world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not 
> > so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us). 
> > Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this? 
> > If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail 
> > filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
> 
> Yes, we've had that a couple times here in the last month.  It's called a 
> Joe Job, you can read about it here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_job
> 
> There's not much you can do about it.  During the fallout from something 
> like that, I *do* blackhole bounce reports.  It's just not worth dealing 
> with them.
> 
> Topher
> Manager of Internet Services
> Cornerstone University Radio
> 


Joe Jobs and backscatter have been on rise over the last few weeks. I
personally got over 600 over the last weekend and have had alot of users
complaining of the same. Had to resort to blackholing bounce reports
myself as well.  Seeing how alot of MTA's include the content of the
bounced message with the bounce notification, I wonder if it is some new
technique spammers are using to send spam by bouncing it to the victim
instead of sending it directly.

-Luke


From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Apr 30 17:14:59 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:14:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301026s49bdc22dnbb791e88ff012dcf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804301005k5f93836q6e5bcfa85289a3b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<6591194.28501209575476841.JavaMail.root@mail.mtd-inc.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301026s49bdc22dnbb791e88ff012dcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209590099.3965.13.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 13:26 -0400, Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> Bill have no idea how I felt about BSOD since Bill is non-gamer
> 
> Thank Tom, I will take some test, only problem is ACPI and ICH9

I am a HUGE gamer. Or was... until I got so fed up with Windows and
installed Linux over it.

Then i discovered the games I really *DID* want to play worked with
Native Linux installs.

UT, UT2003, UT2004, Quake(1,2,3 and now 4) among others.

I gave up trying to get things for the PC anyway and just bought a
dedicated console gaming system. I mod'chipped it and now can play my
games from the Hard Disk, all 900+.

As far as which "Next Gen" I am getting, PS3 and a Wii, perhaps an
XBOX360 after the prices finally fall as they lose more and more ground
to the Wii and PS3.

I do gaming on nothing but the console now.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Apr 30 18:24:50 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:24:50 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301005l5aa545c5o924032b51d5c6f76@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<005e01c8aae2$6fb1c030$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<aecf8abe0804300956p4c1b43ffl808ea97bbcb202c1@mail.gmail.com>
	<001f01c8aae4$26107fa0$7e0aa8c0@kdl.net>
	<aecf8abe0804301005l5aa545c5o924032b51d5c6f76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209594290.3965.20.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>

On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 13:05 -0400, Professor Inuyasha wrote:
> it is legal vista, I did report and I updated driver, still same issue
> 
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Rich Nagel <networkman at triton.net> wrote:
> > Have you reported any of these problems to Microsoft yet?  It is a legal
> > Vista right?
> >
> > Rich

Well, to be honest even legal means nothing.

There have been wide spread problem with the ICH9 and other Sound
Systems due to the "DRM" protected and chained outputs. This is by
design. There are some sound chipsets that either can't or won't be able
to keep up with FULL 9.1 Surround sound output from games, turn down you
output to "plain stereo" or something like that. It should help.

The ACPI thing is well know to typically be a motherboard firmware
problem, even in the Linux world.
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Apr 30 18:34:42 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:34:42 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301106t5734d057scfa5e4073e5528a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301106t5734d057scfa5e4073e5528a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209594882.3965.26.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:06 -0400, Tim Schmidt wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
> >  Sheesh... I should learn to read before I post... It does seem like Tim
> >  is right and largely the discussion wasn't hostile until the original
> >  poster got lippy... Sorry Tim.
> 
> No problem.
> 
> Glad I got this one before firing off the exhaustive "87 reasons
> you're wrong" missive I was working on.  ;)

Only 87? I can think of another 200+ reasons why *YOU* are wrong...
don't let me get my Debian Developer and Debian User Flamewarz suit back
on!

> Seriously though, there are so many variables left out of the original
> question, including any demonstration of effort expended to solve said
> problem, that there's no way one could reasonably expect anyone - even
> a Windows Vista expert to solve said problem over email.
> 
> This is why OEM support channels and computer repair shops exist.

But going to Best Buy's Geek Squad is provably the most expensive route.

I mean DAMN, if he is going to go there and pay $300 to get it looked at
possibly fixed, I'd hit that if its regular or something, I'd only need
to do 20-30 of those a month to make ends meet.

/me stops pondering and continues on with his writing chores (bleah)
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Apr 30 18:44:03 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:44:03 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209595443.3965.35.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:21 -0400, Tim Schmidt wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Professor Inuyasha
> <profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
> >  better than windows,
> 
> Perhaps not the best idea on a Linux user group mailing list.
> 
> How can I relate this to something else...  "like walking into a biker
> bar and yelling 'harleys suck!'...  then asking for help".

"Yelling: 'Harley's suck!' in a biker bar and asking for help on yours!"

That would likely get you a cheer. As a 2004 Harley Sportster Owner, I
just got to do this Sunday:

        Starter: $375 
        AGM* Motorcycle Battery: $92 
        Tech and Electrical manuals for the H-D: $121
        Gaskets, seals and new stainless screws: $65
        Primary Drive Fluid: $8
        
        Going out on a brisk morning, riding on motorcycles with your
        wife, on your 17th Wedding Anniversary: Priceless

And that isn't the first time I've spent money on this thing and I just
picked it up this Winter.

We've got a V-Star Classic 650 as well... Looking at another Star
Motorcycle... tourer with an 1800cc Twin in it.

In any case, you are right.

At least I've not commented on his top posting... *YET*

Right Bob?
-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From greg at gregfolkert.net  Wed Apr 30 18:53:22 2008
From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:53:22 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1209596002.3965.40.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>


On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:36 -0400, Benjamin Flanders wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Professor Inuyasha
> >  <profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  >  reason why I said shadda up because I dont like they said linux is
> >  >  better than windows,
> >
> >  Perhaps not the best idea on a Linux user group mailing list.
> >
> >  How can I relate this to something else...  "like walking into a biker
> >  bar and yelling 'harleys suck!'...  then asking for help".
> >
> >  --tim
> >
> 
> In total agreement with you here Tim.
> 
> I just wish that instead of responding like a bunch of bikers(O.K. we
> weren't really that bad) we could have ignored his rudeness and helped
> him.
> 
> In the end he got some really good advice and a place he could get
> some more help.  I guess it was the elitist attitude and extra
> responses he received that prompted this call for politeness.

This list is NO WHERE NEAR the Linux Elitists list in attitude, nor is
it even on the map compared to the Crack Monkey List (God bless its poor
troubled soul). (Crack Monkey was an Elitist, Elitists list)

-- 
greg at gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0  2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74  E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0
Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA  29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2
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From timschmidt at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 21:22:07 2008
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 01:22:07 +0000
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <1209595443.3965.35.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<1209595443.3965.35.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0804301822t2b93fe26ie36af7b9ea1cc91b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Greg Folkert <greg at gregfolkert.net> wrote:
>  "Yelling: 'Harley's suck!' in a biker bar and asking for help on yours!"
>
>  That would likely get you a cheer.

Shows how much I know.  ;)

--tim

From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 08:20:51 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:20:51 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] CUPS Presentation - Next GRLUG Meeting Thursday May 15th
In-Reply-To: <200804292155.42622.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
References: <f0ffba670804291120h4e27d3admc3dcbba7fad8ff08@mail.gmail.com>
	<200804292155.42622.darth_linux@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0804300520x498360b3o182247a1f4063290@mail.gmail.com>

I have been using cups to modify print jobs in transit which has some
usefully applications. If any one is interested I'll bring some
information to the meeting.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:55 PM, eah <darth_linux at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 29 April 2008 14:20:36 pm Casey DuBois wrote:
>  > Hello ALL,
>  >
>  > GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) May Meeting
>  >
>  > Food will be provided so please RSVP to casey at grlug.org so I can make
>  > sure to have enough.
>  >
>  > Date and Time:
>  > Thursday May 15th
>  > 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00)
>  >
>  > Location:
>  > N-Vint, Inc., 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia
>  > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial
>  >+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.76562
>  >5&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1
>  >
>  > Presentation: Enterprise Printing via CUPS "Implementing CUPS and
>  > using cups from Windows, Linux, HPUX and AIX"
>  > Additional Topics:
>  > gOS
>  > USB Linux
>  > Open source vs Closed source for Linux
>  >
>  >
>  > *** REMINDER *** AIM West meeting TOMORROW
>  > An Open Discussion of Open Source: How FREE Software Can Help Your
>  > Business! Wednesday, April 30th
>  > Location: Eberhard Center, GVSU
>  > Networking Time:  5:30 p.m.
>  > Panel Discussion:  6:30 p.m.
>  >
>  > Panelists Are:
>  > Carl Erickson (Atomic Object)
>  > Brian Anderson (RCM Technologies)
>  > Andy Mann (Calhoun Intermediate School District)
>  > Eric Hartwell (ITT Technical Institute)
>  > More details @ www.aimwest.org
>  >
>  > See you soon,
>  > Casey DuBois
>  > casey at grlug.org
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>  I'll do my best to be there :-)
>
>
>  eah
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 15:46:41 2008
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:46:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Email overload
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804301241r7c549666p5794e8403eea0ae8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4818CA6A.8060205@kkmfg.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301241r7c549666p5794e8403eea0ae8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0804301246m2fa346dq44fdc86edc492bf7@mail.gmail.com>

many of the people at my company have had the same problem recently. I
updated my postfix configuration, implemented gray-listing and SPF.
That seemed to fix the problem, at least we no long receive the bouce
(Undelverable type) emails.

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:41 PM, Professor Inuyasha
<profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> Collin, I got your  mail
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Collin <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>  > This is sort of off topic but sort of on topic...
>  >
>  > I'm getting hundreds upon hundreds of bounce messages from all over the
>  > world today. Someone used our email domain as the sender address for not
>  > so nice emails (they didn't use our server they just claim to be us).
>  > Normally it isn't bad but today is terrible. Anyone else getting this?
>  > If it's on going what's the best course of action? ignore it? Use a mail
>  > filter to trashcan it (though legit bounce messages would be lost too)?
>  >
>  > I've tried sending this message to the list many times. My other posts
>  > show up but nothing on this topic... Maybe it was previously that I put
>  > in the word for fake canned meat or put in an example email address...
>  > Whatever is doing it ITS ANNOYING.
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > grlug mailing list
>  > grlug at grlug.org
>  > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  ------------------
>  Professor Inuyasha
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From tomewarren at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 14:53:26 2008
From: tomewarren at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:53:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Hostile Attitudes
In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e8898d550804301026k7ef3cf67n5bf1beb5f238d824@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301038u100e210u616592adcc05c199@mail.gmail.com>
	<4818B0D0.4090708@kkmfg.com> <4818B1BE.6060208@kkmfg.com>
	<e8898d550804301106l602cd32cn8b3684451a51ed9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804301111s26a37fc8y55abdbd586286b9c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301121m49120c8fw61277d2bc09353c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<e8898d550804301136i369716fm26fd673e06b66d2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<2c97fe9d0804301143w7b6080afg68d5e456f6fb485e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15f732370804301153w78d4722dtb4ea1aff26e4ebc1@mail.gmail.com>

I thought I provided a starting/jumping point for him/her to figure
out where to start to figure things out. Even if he thinks he has a
Windows problem it most likely is a hardware problem. What if he came
here and said he was getting kernel panics. Would you have had the
same attitude? My advice would have been the same, check the memory
then check the CPU...

Tom

(sorry about the html I have changed my gmail settings...)

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Tim Schmidt <timschmidt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Benjamin Flanders <flanderb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >  I just wish that instead of responding like a bunch of bikers(O.K. we
> >  weren't really that bad) we could have ignored his rudeness and helped
> >  him.
>
> No, we weren't that bad.  And there simply isn't enough information to
> help him.  No BSOD text.  No core dumps (or whatever the Win32
> equivalent is), no detailed information at all.  If this were a bug
> report, it would be deleted for gross incompleteness.
>
>
> >  In the end he got some really good advice and a place he could get
> >  some more help.  I guess it was the elitist attitude and extra
> >  responses he received that prompted this call for politeness.
>
> I think the 'elitist attitude' is all in your perception.  Could you
> point out an example?
>
> --tim
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com

From tomewarren at gmail.com  Wed Apr 30 12:57:11 2008
From: tomewarren at gmail.com (Tom Warren)
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:57:11 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Need help to stop BSOD
In-Reply-To: <aecf8abe0804300935icb58bf1g276de5c3323a48eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <aecf8abe0804300906i18c485b8oa4e0e0f2170a16@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450804300912i66946c43w245b1c9166588038@mail.gmail.com>
	<aecf8abe0804300935icb58bf1g276de5c3323a48eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15f732370804300957o5be3b87al3acc139fbaa2916e@mail.gmail.com>

Most BSOD's are due to faulty hardware. Linux does help let you know more of
what hardware may be failing, but since this isn't the case here, the first
thing I would do is download the memtest86 iso and run a memory test to
verify that you don't have a bad DIMM. Once you verify its not the memory
you need to run a stress test on the cpu. I recommend Prime95 for windows.



On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Professor Inuyasha <profinuyasha at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop that
> damned BSOD!
>
> I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when I play
> game
>
> two BSOD caused by
> -Intel ICH9
> -ATK0110 ACPI Utility
>
> My computer specs:
> ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard
> Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
> Model BX80557E6850
> Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory (2 x
> 2048MB)
> Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
> DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI
> Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
> Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, PCI-E
> Ready, Energy Efficient, Modular
> SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B
>
>
> I think I might got wrong PSU......
>
> my PSU link:
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> and it say SLi Certificated
>
> my ATI support Crossfire Certificated
>
> ======================
>
> I called to Ultra company about PSU, no error found yet
>
> I am going to call to ASUS, Intel, and ATI company to find what's
> going on with my Luna PC and find way to stop BSOD
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Professor Inuyasha, when writing emails to the mailing list, turn off
> Rich Formatting in GMail. (Click on the link that says "Plain Text").
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:06 PM, Professor Inuyasha <
> profinuyasha at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > <div>Hi Guys, I know it is not relate to Linux but I really want stop
> that damned BSOD!</div>
> > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > >  <div>I am running Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 and I kept get BSOD when
> I play game</div>
> > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > >  <div>two BSOD caused by</div>
> > >  <div>-Intel ICH9</div>
> > >  <div>-ATK0110 ACPI Utility</div>
> > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > >  <div>My computer specs:</div>
> > >  <div><font color="#000000">ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX
> Intel Motherboard </font></div>
> > >  <div>Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core
> Processor Model BX80557E6850 </div>
> > >  <div>Corsair XMS2 DHX 4096MB Dual Channel PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory
> (2 x 2048MB)</div>
> > >  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES ST3500630NS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
> Hard Drive </div>
> > >  <div>Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST31000340NS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
> Hard Drive </div>
> > >  <div>DIAMOND Viper 2900XT1GPE Radeon HD 2900XT 1GB 512-bit GDDR4 PCI
> Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card </div>
> > >  <div>Ultra X3 ULT40064 1000-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready,
> PCI-E Ready, Energy Efficient, Modular</div>
> > >  <div>SAMSUNG 20X DVD?R DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S203B</div>
> > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > >  <div>I think I might got wrong PSU......</div>
> > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > >  <div>my PSU link: <a href="
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> ">
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=ULT40064
> </a></div>
> > >  <div>and it say SLi Certificated</div>
> > >  <div>&nbsp;</div>
> > >  <div>my ATI support Crossfire Certificated</div>
> > >  <div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>------------------<br>Professor
> Inuyasha </div>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >  grlug mailing list
> > >  grlug at grlug.org
> > >  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------
> Professor Inuyasha
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Tom Warren
meijer ITS Enterprise Storage
Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)
tomewarren at gmail.com
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