From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 10:16:10 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:16:10 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Next meeting. Message-ID: Is there a date set for the next meeting? From darth_linux at ameritech.net Wed Oct 3 20:41:39 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:41:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Next meeting. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710032041.39834.darth_linux@ameritech.net> On Wednesday 03 October 2007 10:16:10 am Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > Is there a date set for the next meeting? > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug we should set it now. do we want to compliment WMLUG meetings or just do our own thing? (more LUGs _are_ are good thing.) eah From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Oct 4 14:37:29 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:37:29 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Hello All, The next GRLUG meeting is set. Wednesday October 10th. From: 6-8PM Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas John Watson - IBM From driveray at ameritech.net Thu Oct 4 15:35:22 2007 From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:35:22 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <4705407A.5010401@ameritech.net> Casey DuBois wrote: > Hello All, > > The next GRLUG meeting is set. > Wednesday October 10th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. Sounds great, I'm hoping I can make it. I do need to comment though: Two hours isn't really enough time for an install fest if you get many takers at all. You had best be prepared to stick around till 9:00. Hardware trouble shooting can take up as much time as actual installing. Is anyone up for putting out fliers? Like at book stores & computer shops (after first getting permission, of course). If you'd like, you're free to modify the flier from here: or make your own. Maybe a "Had enough of VISTA yet?" theme would be good. Just suggesting Raymond McLaughlin From mikemol at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 15:53:39 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 15:53:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <4705407A.5010401@ameritech.net> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <4705407A.5010401@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On 10/4/07, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > Is anyone up for putting out fliers? Like at book stores & computer > shops (after first getting permission, of course). If you'd like, you're > free to modify the flier from here: > or make your own. Maybe a > "Had enough of VISTA yet?" theme would be good. Ping the GRCC Computer Club over at grc4.org. They do a monthly all-day PC Clinic. Some, at least, might be interested in helping with an extended-duration installfest. You can probably get fliers up around GRCC, if the event is cosponsored by the computer club. -- :wq From mzuverink at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 15:59:21 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:59:21 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <47054619.4060405@gmail.com> Casey DuBois wrote: > Hello All, > > The next GRLUG meeting is set. > Wednesday October 10th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. > > I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. > Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. > > FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > > "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." > - Thomas John Watson - IBM > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Ive got an old ipod which is capable of running iopd linux, interested in installing that on it, plus I too have a 5th generation iPod with rockbox on it. We can have all kinds of fun. Is this install fest in anyway timed with the new Ubuntu Release? It so, being the Ubuntu-LoCo for Western MI contact person I could maybe bring some shwag if it gets here in time and people are able to cover costs. Additionally, anyone going to this meeting from the Holland area, I would like to ride share. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Oct 4 16:14:37 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 16:14:37 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <4705407A.5010401@ameritech.net> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <4705407A.5010401@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955C3@NVMBX01.nvint.local> No problem with going till 9 or later. Casey -----Original Message----- From: Raymond McLaughlin [mailto:driveray at ameritech.net] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:35 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM Casey DuBois wrote: > Hello All, > > The next GRLUG meeting is set. > Wednesday October 10th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. Sounds great, I'm hoping I can make it. I do need to comment though: Two hours isn't really enough time for an install fest if you get many takers at all. You had best be prepared to stick around till 9:00. Hardware trouble shooting can take up as much time as actual installing. Is anyone up for putting out fliers? Like at book stores & computer shops (after first getting permission, of course). If you'd like, you're free to modify the flier from here: or make your own. Maybe a "Had enough of VISTA yet?" theme would be good. Just suggesting Raymond McLaughlin _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From matt at michielsen.us Thu Oct 4 16:14:57 2007 From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 16:14:57 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <47054619.4060405@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47054619.4060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll be coming from Zeeland, so we could probably work something out. My car only has two human-size seats, so if there are more interested from the area someone else would have to drive. -mm On 10/4/07, Marc Zuverink wrote: > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > The next GRLUG meeting is set. > > Wednesday October 10th. > > From: 6-8PM > > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > > > I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to > cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > > > After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. > > > > I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on > however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. > > Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even > installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. > > > > FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for > more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. > > > > Sincerely, > > Casey M. DuBois > > N-VINT, Inc. > > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > > 616-656-5500 Office > > 866-337-2686 Direct > > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > > cdubois at n-vint.com > > > > "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." > > - Thomas John Watson - IBM > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > Ive got an old ipod which is capable of running iopd linux, interested > in installing that on it, plus I too have a 5th generation iPod with > rockbox on it. We can have all kinds of fun. > > Is this install fest in anyway timed with the new Ubuntu Release? It > so, being the Ubuntu-LoCo for Western MI contact person I could maybe > bring some shwag if it gets here in time and people are able to cover > costs. > > Additionally, anyone going to this meeting from the Holland area, I > would like to ride share. > > -- > Marc Zuverink > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > -Linus Torvalds > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071004/db968c8b/attachment-0001.htm From darth_linux at ameritech.net Thu Oct 4 18:10:36 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:10:36 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] ATI drivers Linux x86_64 distros Message-ID: <200710041810.36207.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Hi everyone. Has anyone had luck with 64-bit Linux and ATI's drivers? I'm still running Fedora6 since Fedora7 isn't quite compatible with ATI's 8.4x drivers. (Fedora6 uses 8.39 driver). My videocard is the Radeon Xpress 200M. I know several of you use *buntu. Has anyone using Gutsy put it on a 64-bit system? What luck have you had in general (and with ATI specifically.) I'm always open to switching Linux distros. Has anyone who might be using a similar videocard experienced Fedora8? thanks, eah From bob.kline at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 18:34:48 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 18:34:48 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] ATI drivers Linux x86_64 distros In-Reply-To: <200710041810.36207.darth_linux@ameritech.net> References: <200710041810.36207.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: I have Ubuntu 7.04 running on a 64-bit Acer 5000 series laptop. Everything works, including the wireless, which apparently sometimes causes snags. -Bob On 10/4/07, eah wrote: > > Hi everyone. > > Has anyone had luck with 64-bit Linux and ATI's drivers? I'm still running > Fedora6 since Fedora7 isn't quite compatible with ATI's 8.4x drivers. > (Fedora6 uses 8.39 driver). My videocard is the Radeon Xpress 200M. > > I know several of you use *buntu. Has anyone using Gutsy put it on a > 64-bit > system? What luck have you had in general (and with ATI specifically.) > I'm always open to switching Linux distros. > > Has anyone who might be using a similar videocard experienced Fedora8? > > thanks, > > eah > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071004/34c9eb89/attachment.htm From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 09:31:31 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 09:31:31 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <47054619.4060405@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47054619.4060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: Isn't the release date for gusty Oct 18? I have a few machines that I would like to install ubuntu / xubuntu on. but i would rather wait until after the finial release. > Is this install fest in anyway timed with the new Ubuntu Release? It > so, being the Ubuntu-LoCo for Western MI contact person I could maybe > bring some shwag if it gets here in time and people are able to cover costs. From mzuverink at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 11:01:05 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:01:05 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A955A1@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47054619.4060405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <470651B1.60607@gmail.com> Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > Isn't the release date for gusty Oct 18? > > I have a few machines that I would like to install ubuntu / xubuntu > on. but i would rather wait until after the finial release. > >> Is this install fest in anyway timed with the new Ubuntu Release? It >> so, being the Ubuntu-LoCo for Western MI contact person I could maybe >> bring some shwag if it gets here in time and people are able to cover costs. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Yes it is the 18th of so. I am planning a Gusty Release Party and Install Fest and BBQ some time late Oct or first week of Nov at my home in Holland. More info to follow, and I will have some Ubuntu shwag for sale as well. You invited, just watch the list for details. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 14:20:32 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:20:32 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs Message-ID: I have an old sony vaio i'd would to bring some life back into, any know of a good distro that runs in 32meg? From mzuverink at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 14:24:19 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:24:19 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > I have an old sony vaio i'd would to bring some life back into, any > know of a good distro that runs in 32meg? > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Ram right? DSL comes to mind. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From fusion at darktech.org Fri Oct 5 14:36:58 2007 From: fusion at darktech.org (Alexander Grotewohl) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:36:58 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs In-Reply-To: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> References: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> slackware? :) i think anything could be coerced into running in 32mb.. On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 02:24:19PM -0400, Marc Zuverink wrote: > Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > > I have an old sony vaio i'd would to bring some life back into, any > > know of a good distro that runs in 32meg? > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > Ram right? > DSL comes to mind. > > -- > Marc Zuverink > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > -Linus Torvalds > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From timschmidt at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 14:45:07 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:45:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs In-Reply-To: <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> References: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710051145j793fa9a4x4128d9a266c0aaed@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Alexander Grotewohl wrote: > slackware? :) > > i think anything could be coerced into running in 32mb.. I run Debian for Mips32 in 32Mb every day... and I've run i386 debian in 48Mb. It was mostly usable as a desktop with WindowMaker. At least Firefox ran. --tim From mzuverink at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 14:47:22 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:47:22 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs In-Reply-To: <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> References: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> Message-ID: <470686BA.9090904@gmail.com> Alexander Grotewohl wrote: > slackware? :) > > i think anything could be coerced into running in 32mb.. > > A base sys w/ no gui should run in as low as 4 megs. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From mzuverink at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 14:51:53 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:51:53 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0710051145j793fa9a4x4128d9a266c0aaed@mail.gmail.com> References: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> <2c97fe9d0710051145j793fa9a4x4128d9a266c0aaed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470687C9.8000801@gmail.com> Tim Schmidt wrote: > On 10/5/07, Alexander Grotewohl wrote: >> slackware? :) >> >> i think anything could be coerced into running in 32mb.. > > I run Debian for Mips32 in 32Mb every day... and I've run i386 debian > in 48Mb. It was mostly usable as a desktop with WindowMaker. At > least Firefox ran. > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ I use this on a old Zenith portable 486 in my garage, it only has 16 megs of ram, decent gui for what you are using. Very usable actually. Even plays nice and allows a buffalo wifi card. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 14:57:18 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:57:18 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs In-Reply-To: <470687C9.8000801@gmail.com> References: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> <2c97fe9d0710051145j793fa9a4x4128d9a266c0aaed@mail.gmail.com> <470687C9.8000801@gmail.com> Message-ID: Let me clearify: 32 Megs. RAM and I'm looking for a usable desktop (replacing windows 95 that was on there) I tried puppy, it didn't want to install my next step is DSL Thanks for the quick responces On 10/5/07, Marc Zuverink wrote: > Tim Schmidt wrote: > > On 10/5/07, Alexander Grotewohl wrote: > >> slackware? :) > >> > >> i think anything could be coerced into running in 32mb.. > > > > I run Debian for Mips32 in 32Mb every day... and I've run i386 debian > > in 48Mb. It was mostly usable as a desktop with WindowMaker. At > > least Firefox ran. > > > > --tim > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ > > I use this on a old Zenith portable 486 in my garage, it only has 16 > megs of ram, decent gui for what you are using. Very usable actually. > Even plays nice and allows a buffalo wifi card. > > > -- > Marc Zuverink > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > -Linus Torvalds > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From timschmidt at gmail.com Fri Oct 5 15:09:46 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 15:09:46 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] linux in 32 Megs In-Reply-To: <470686BA.9090904@gmail.com> References: <47068153.5080704@gmail.com> <20071005183658.GA3119@atlantis> <470686BA.9090904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710051209g10e29bbaj17f090aabaf1722c@mail.gmail.com> On 10/5/07, Marc Zuverink wrote: > A base sys w/ no gui should run in as low as 4 megs. These days, only if you compile your own kernel. A line from dmesg on Ubuntu 7.04 on my current desktop: Memory: 1287380k/1310144k available (1993k kernel code, 21504k reserved, 900k data, 328k init, 392640k highmem) 22Mb used on startup just by the kernel and various buffers. It'd probably use less if it didn't have 1280Mb of ram to manage, but general-purpose distributor kernels have long outgrown 4Mb of ram. --tim From radiodurans at yahoo.com Sat Oct 6 22:17:06 2007 From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting (Install Fest) Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <157669.45072.qm@web80401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> yes it is Oct 18. if someone can download it and mirror it for the installfest that would be cool! WMLUG is having an installfest Oct 18 . . . ive been running gutsy since tribe 5 and they have a ways to go even as of today...but i think they work round the clock the last week to get it up to par. . . Oct 10 is far too early :). ill probably try reinstalling it with all the broken stuff so far. When is the next GRLUG meeting? --- Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > Isn't the release date for gusty Oct 18? > > I have a few machines that I would like to install > ubuntu / xubuntu > on. but i would rather wait until after the finial > release. > > > Is this install fest in anyway timed with the new > Ubuntu Release? It > > so, being the Ubuntu-LoCo for Western MI contact > person I could maybe > > bring some shwag if it gets here in time and > people are able to cover costs. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From cdubois at n-vint.com Mon Oct 8 11:23:23 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 11:23:23 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] ** Reminder LUG Meeting (Install Fest) THIS WEEK Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A956E0@NVMBX01.nvint.local> *** Reminder Hello All, The next GRLUG meeting is set. Wednesday October 10th. From: 6-8PM Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com From cdubois at n-vint.com Mon Oct 8 14:08:56 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:08:56 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Need copy of RHEL 4 Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A9570D@NVMBX01.nvint.local> I need a copy of RHEL 4 to test on a system. Any suggestions where I can get it? Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas John Watson - IBM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071008/25e407f0/attachment.htm From brousch at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 14:15:51 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:15:51 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Need copy of RHEL 4 In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A9570D@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A9570D@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: http://www.centos.org/ I think they use all the RedHat code and strip out any copyrighted RedHat logos. On 10/8/07, Casey DuBois wrote: > > I need a copy of RHEL 4 to test on a system. > > Any suggestions where I can get it? > > > > Sincerely, > > *Casey M. DuBois* > > *N-VINT, Inc.* > > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > > 616-656-5500 Office > > *866-337-2686* Direct > > *AOL IM: CaseyNVINT* > > cdubois at n-vint.com** > > > > "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." > > - Thomas John Watson - IBM > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071008/ce06eff5/attachment-0001.htm From mzuverink at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 14:36:34 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:36:34 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Need copy of RHEL 4 In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A9570D@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <470A78B2.40702@gmail.com> Ben Rousch wrote: > http://www.centos.org/ > > I think they use all the RedHat code and strip out any copyrighted RedHat > logos. > > On 10/8/07, Casey DuBois wrote: >> I need a copy of RHEL 4 to test on a system. >> >> Any suggestions where I can get it? >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> *Casey M. DuBois* >> >> *N-VINT, Inc.* >> >> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 >> >> 616-656-5500 Office >> >> *866-337-2686* Direct >> >> *AOL IM: CaseyNVINT* >> >> cdubois at n-vint.com** >> >> >> >> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." >> >> - Thomas John Watson - IBM >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug Fedora stated in their startup page way back in the day that its intent was to be a testbed for RHEL, whether that holds true today is anyones guess. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From dond at standalelumber.com Mon Oct 8 15:30:02 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 15:30:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Need copy of RHEL 4 In-Reply-To: <470A78B2.40702@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A9570D@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <470A78B2.40702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004001c809e1$9f94f490$6f01a8c0@standalelumber.com> I have a copy of RHEL 4. Not sure where I got it from or if it works but you're welcome to it if you want. Don Wood IT Administrator Standale Lumber 616.340.2383 -----Original Message----- From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of Marc Zuverink Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 2:37 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Need copy of RHEL 4 Ben Rousch wrote: > http://www.centos.org/ > > I think they use all the RedHat code and strip out any copyrighted > RedHat logos. > > On 10/8/07, Casey DuBois wrote: >> I need a copy of RHEL 4 to test on a system. >> >> Any suggestions where I can get it? >> >> >> >> Sincerely, >> >> *Casey M. DuBois* >> >> *N-VINT, Inc.* >> >> 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 >> >> 616-656-5500 Office >> >> *866-337-2686* Direct >> >> *AOL IM: CaseyNVINT* >> >> cdubois at n-vint.com** >> >> >> >> "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." >> >> - Thomas John Watson - IBM >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug Fedora stated in their startup page way back in the day that its intent was to be a testbed for RHEL, whether that holds true today is anyones guess. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon Oct 8 16:24:17 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:24:17 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Need copy of RHEL 4 In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A9570D@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A9570D@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <1191875057.31692.7.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> I have just replaced RHEL3 update9 and RHEL4 update5 servers with CentOS v3.9 and CentOS v4.5 Binaries compiled for those RedHat version run exactly on corresponding CentOS versions. In fact, Kernel Modules compiled for specific kernel version of RedHat kernels load 100 percent on the CentOS kernels. IOW, use CentOS. They claim 100% Binary Compatibility. On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 14:08 -0400, Casey DuBois wrote: > I need a copy of RHEL 4 to test on a system. > > Any suggestions where I can get it? > Sincerely, > > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071008/d94a1c95/attachment.pgp From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 07:10:55 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 07:10:55 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Anyone interested in MythTV Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710090410i6432e068v88ee54c0e34e5fea@mail.gmail.com> Just wanted to mention, I gave Mythbuntu (http://www.mythbuntu.org) a whirl last night and WOW. First distribution ever to get MythTV RightTM IMHO. Forget everything you thought you knew about MythTV distributions and give this one a try. For those of us used to setting up Myth manually, this distribution will add years to your life. --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 08:05:17 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:05:17 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Anyone interested in MythTV In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0710090410i6432e068v88ee54c0e34e5fea@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c97fe9d0710090410i6432e068v88ee54c0e34e5fea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920710090505m7e1dd778lc7901239880faed3@mail.gmail.com> da-boxx justin # equery list myth [ Searching for package 'myth' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ ~] media-tv/mythtv-0.20.1_p13344 (0) [I--] [ ~] x11-themes/mythtv-themes-0.20.1 (0) da-boxx justin # lspci | grep -i video 02:02.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video Capture (rev 11) I got mythtv up and running on gentoo earlier this year. I think the biggest hassle was setting up the trial account for local listings, after that, I was able to hook up a VCR and make AVI movies from VHS Tapes. I used avidemux to edit the videos. I'm curious to know whether or not you can get Comcast Digital Cable to work w/ listings, and On Demand available. On 10/9/07, Tim Schmidt wrote: > > Just wanted to mention, I gave Mythbuntu (http://www.mythbuntu.org) a > whirl last night and WOW. First distribution ever to get MythTV > RightTM IMHO. > > Forget everything you thought you knew about MythTV distributions and > give this one a try. > > For those of us used to setting up Myth manually, this distribution > will add years to your life. > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071009/5e0861c6/attachment-0001.htm From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 08:18:30 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:18:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Anyone interested in MythTV In-Reply-To: <81e08d920710090505m7e1dd778lc7901239880faed3@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c97fe9d0710090410i6432e068v88ee54c0e34e5fea@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920710090505m7e1dd778lc7901239880faed3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I had MythTV running on gentoo for a while, then switched to MythDora. I tried Mythbuntu but I could not get it to install ( it's was one of the machines I was thinking about bringing to the install fest). I may be purchasing a house soon to so LinuxMCE maybe a good option to. Do CableCards have any support in linux yet? On 10/9/07, Justin Denick wrote: > da-boxx justin # equery list myth > [ Searching for package 'myth' in all categories among: ] > * installed packages > [I--] [ ~] media-tv/mythtv-0.20.1_p13344 (0) > [I--] [ ~] x11-themes/mythtv-themes-0.20.1 (0) > da-boxx justin # lspci | grep -i video > 02:02.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video > Capture (rev 11) > > I got mythtv up and running on gentoo earlier this year. I think the biggest > hassle was setting up the trial account for local listings, after that, I > was able to hook up a VCR and make AVI movies from VHS Tapes. > I used avidemux to edit the videos. > > I'm curious to know whether or not you can get Comcast Digital Cable to work > w/ listings, and On Demand available. > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Tim Schmidt wrote: > > Just wanted to mention, I gave Mythbuntu (http://www.mythbuntu.org) a > > whirl last night and WOW. First distribution ever to get MythTV > > RightTM IMHO. > > > > Forget everything you thought you knew about MythTV distributions and > > give this one a try. > > > > For those of us used to setting up Myth manually, this distribution > > will add years to your life. > > > > --tim > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > -- > In vino veritas. > [In wine there is truth.] > -- Pliny > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com Tue Oct 9 10:38:58 2007 From: JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com (Olding, Jim) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 10:38:58 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Moving MySQL Data Dir Message-ID: I'm trying to move the data dir for MySQL on CentOS from the default (/var/lib/mysql) to a 2nd drive (/db/mysql). Here's the process I'm following: Stop the running MySQLd service Copy everything in /var/lib/mysql to /db/mysql Update /etc/my.cnf to point datadir to /db/mysql Start MySQLd Here's the output from trying to start the service back up after the move: [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld start Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. Starting MySQL: [FAILED] [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld status mysqld (pid 5851) is running... And here's mysqld.log: 071009 10:17:41 mysqld started 071009 10:17:41 InnoDB: Started; log sequence number 0 2650890 /usr/libexec/mysqld: ready for connections. Version: '4.1.20' socket: '/db/mysql/mysql.sock' port: 3306 Source distribution I can see the mysqld process running, and it is listening on port 3306, but nothing can seem to connect to it. If I point datadir back to /var/lib/mysql, everything works beautifully. Ideas? From rvillarreal at mktec.com Tue Oct 9 11:24:15 2007 From: rvillarreal at mktec.com (Roberto Villarreal) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:24:15 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Moving MySQL Data Dir In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710091124.15819.rvillarreal@mktec.com> On Tuesday 09 October 2007, Olding, Jim wrote: > I'm trying to move the data dir for MySQL on CentOS from the > default (/var/lib/mysql) to a 2nd drive (/db/mysql). Here's the > process I'm following: > > Stop the running MySQLd service > Copy everything in /var/lib/mysql to /db/mysql > Update /etc/my.cnf to point datadir to /db/mysql > Start MySQLd > > Here's the output from trying to start the service back up after > the move: > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld start > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld status > mysqld (pid 5851) is running... > > And here's mysqld.log: > 071009 10:17:41 mysqld started > 071009 10:17:41 InnoDB: Started; log sequence number 0 2650890 > /usr/libexec/mysqld: ready for connections. > Version: '4.1.20' socket: '/db/mysql/mysql.sock' port: 3306 > Source distribution > > I can see the mysqld process running, and it is listening on port > 3306, but nothing can seem to connect to it. If I point datadir > back to /var/lib/mysql, everything works beautifully. Ideas? > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug Shot in the dark, but verify the socket is actually created (i.e. permissions). By default, if you are trying to connect to a local DB, it will use the socket. So just because the port is open doesn't really mean anything. You could probably try starting the client forcing the use of the port (or accessing the DB from another host, if you have proper permissions), and I'm guessing it might work. Hopefully this gives you a starting point at least... Roberto From airplanejay at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 12:57:26 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:57:26 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn Message-ID: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071009/af955ea6/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 13:04:18 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:04:18 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes. You need to run the system update application with a special command-line parameter, but I don't remember what that is, and I don't have time to look it up. Or you can learn how to edit /etc/apt/sources.list, and work with apt-get dist-upgrade On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 13:10:21 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:10:21 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Isn't "update" one of the options when you go to install one of the versions of Ubuntu? -Bob On 10/9/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Yes. > > You need to run the system update application with a special > command-line parameter, but I don't remember what that is, and I don't > have time to look it up. > > Or you can learn how to edit /etc/apt/sources.list, and work with > apt-get dist-upgrade > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > > > -- > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071009/72056391/attachment.htm From brousch at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 13:22:33 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:22:33 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Are you updating from Edgy to Feisty, or from something older than Edgy? The upgrade tips I read a while ago recommend that you not upgrade from anything except the previous version. If you are coming from Edgy, just open a terminal and type: gksudo "update-manager -c -d" and it should be obvious from there. On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071009/e90879f7/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 13:30:15 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:30:15 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Oops...Sorry, I thought he sent this to me, directly. :-/ On 10/9/07, Michael Mol wrote: > Yes. > > You need to run the system update application with a special > command-line parameter, but I don't remember what that is, and I don't > have time to look it up. > > Or you can learn how to edit /etc/apt/sources.list, and work with > apt-get dist-upgrade > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > > > -- > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > -- :wq From rick at vargo.org Tue Oct 9 13:10:18 2007 From: rick at vargo.org (Rick Vargo) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 13:10:18 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but anything older and you should start from scratch because there was some major changes introduced in Edgy. Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says edgy Run: apt-get update apt-get -f dist-upgrade Rick Jason Kisner wrote: > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From brousch at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 13:36:42 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 13:36:42 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> Message-ID: Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is to use the update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember doing the Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did get it to work after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few bumps in the road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of the good old System-V init with Upstart . On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo wrote: > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but anything > older and you should start from scratch because there was some major > changes introduced in Edgy. > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says edgy > > Run: > apt-get update > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > Rick > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > > > -- > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071009/3cc0a1b3/attachment-0001.htm From mzuverink at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 15:17:14 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 15:17:14 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] What distros do you want available for tomorrow nights meeting? Message-ID: <470BD3BA.9090802@gmail.com> Let me know what you want to install and I will download the iso and variant you desire and throw it on my external. Bring your own media, and the deadline for requests is 9 am Oct 10th! Also, if the Gusty mirrors actions slow down I will mirror over them to an external as well to help w/ bandwidth. Though, Gusty had over 33 changes so far today so I may just pass on that. Gusty is running fine for those who care. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From airplanejay at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 19:42:31 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:42:31 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> Message-ID: <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that clear. On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch wrote: > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is to use the > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember doing the > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did get it to work > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few bumps in the > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of the good old > System-V init with Upstart . > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo wrote: > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but anything > > older and you should start from scratch because there was some major > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says edgy > > > > Run: > > apt-get update > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > Rick > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > > > > > -- > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071009/a1346a87/attachment.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 22:12:27 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:12:27 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Anyone interested in MythTV In-Reply-To: <81e08d920710090505m7e1dd778lc7901239880faed3@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c97fe9d0710090410i6432e068v88ee54c0e34e5fea@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920710090505m7e1dd778lc7901239880faed3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710091912q7610b6fetf53bafed8415ca70@mail.gmail.com> On 10/9/07, Justin Denick wrote: > I got mythtv up and running on gentoo earlier this year. I think the biggest > hassle was setting up the trial account for local listings, after that, I > was able to hook up a VCR and make AVI movies from VHS Tapes. > I used avidemux to edit the videos. Right. These days it's easy to install Myth on pretty much any distribution. Where Mythbuntu differs, in my experience so far, is there don't seem to be _any_ post-install gotchas. None. Want to watch DVDs? Done. Surf the web? That plugin's already installed. Bought a new tuner? Driver's already there. So on and so forth. Hell, there's even a GUI for configuring LIRC during the install. I've been using Myth since 0.6 days and this is definitely the slickest install I've seen yet. Bonus points because the packages are the same ones in the official repos. Just for reference, all these comments are about the 7.10 beta. --tim From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 22:31:40 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:31:40 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: shortcircuit at caterpillar~ 22:30:27 $ update-manager --help Usage: update-manager [options] Options: -h, --help show this help message and exit -c, --check-dist-upgrades Check if a new distribution release is available -d, --devel-release Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible -p, --proposed Try to run a dist-upgrade --dist-upgrade, --dist-ugprade Try to run a dist-upgrade shortcircuit at caterpillar~ 22:30:32 $ The command you're looking for is "upgrade-manager -c" On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that clear. > > > > On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch wrote: > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is to use the > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember doing the > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did get it to work > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few bumps in the > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of the good old > System-V init with Upstart. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo wrote: > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but anything > > > older and you should start from scratch because there was some major > > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says edgy > > > > > > Run: > > > apt-get update > > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > -- > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 22:32:08 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 22:32:08 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Doh. Make that "update-manager -c" ...Today has *not* been my day. On 10/9/07, Michael Mol wrote: > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > 22:30:27 $ update-manager --help > Usage: update-manager [options] > > Options: > -h, --help show this help message and exit > -c, --check-dist-upgrades > Check if a new distribution release is available > -d, --devel-release Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is > possible > -p, --proposed Try to run a dist-upgrade > --dist-upgrade, --dist-ugprade > Try to run a dist-upgrade > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > 22:30:32 $ > > The command you're looking for is "upgrade-manager -c" > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that clear. > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch wrote: > > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is to use the > > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember doing the > > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did get it to work > > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few bumps in the > > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of the good old > > System-V init with Upstart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo wrote: > > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but anything > > > > older and you should start from scratch because there was some major > > > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says edgy > > > > > > > > Run: > > > > apt-get update > > > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > -- :wq From airplanejay at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 23:50:08 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 23:50:08 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b9edb810710092050y4efebcefoc5f8ee3a7846d4@mail.gmail.com> thanks mike On 10/9/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Doh. > > Make that "update-manager -c" > > ...Today has *not* been my day. > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > > 22:30:27 $ update-manager --help > > Usage: update-manager [options] > > > > Options: > > -h, --help show this help message and exit > > -c, --check-dist-upgrades > > Check if a new distribution release is available > > -d, --devel-release Check if upgrading to the latest devel release > is > > possible > > -p, --proposed Try to run a dist-upgrade > > --dist-upgrade, --dist-ugprade > > Try to run a dist-upgrade > > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > > 22:30:32 $ > > > > The command you're looking for is "upgrade-manager -c" > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > > I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch wrote: > > > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is to use > the > > > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember doing > the > > > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did get it > to work > > > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few bumps in > the > > > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of the > good old > > > System-V init with Upstart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo wrote: > > > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but > anything > > > > > older and you should start from scratch because there was some > major > > > > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > > > > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says > edgy > > > > > > > > > > Run: > > > > > apt-get update > > > > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a CD? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071009/eec4b450/attachment-0001.htm From airplanejay at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 00:21:00 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:21:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710092050y4efebcefoc5f8ee3a7846d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710092050y4efebcefoc5f8ee3a7846d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b9edb810710092121s33f69ca7g601c9473fd8ad486@mail.gmail.com> um... this is the error I'm getting: "jason at rensiks-place:~$ update-manager -d Introspect error: The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not provided by any .service files no listening object (The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not provided by any .service files) " I have the individual cmd-lines spaced apart for better clarity. On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > thanks mike > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > > Doh. > > > > Make that "update-manager -c" > > > > ...Today has *not* been my day. > > > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar ~ > > > 22:30:27 $ update-manager --help > > > Usage: update-manager [options] > > > > > > Options: > > > -h, --help show this help message and exit > > > -c, --check-dist-upgrades > > > Check if a new distribution release is > > available > > > -d, --devel-release Check if upgrading to the latest devel release > > is > > > possible > > > -p, --proposed Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > --dist-upgrade, --dist-ugprade > > > Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > > > 22:30:32 $ > > > > > > The command you're looking for is "upgrade-manager -c" > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner < airplanejay at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch < brousch at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is to > > use the > > > > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember > > doing the > > > > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did get it > > to work > > > > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few bumps in > > the > > > > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of the > > good old > > > > System-V init with Upstart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo wrote: > > > > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but > > anything > > > > > > older and you should start from scratch because there was some > > major > > > > > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says > > edgy > > > > > > > > > > > > Run: > > > > > > apt-get update > > > > > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a > > CD? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > :wq > > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/2dd8f8a2/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 01:11:56 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:11:56 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710092121s33f69ca7g601c9473fd8ad486@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710092050y4efebcefoc5f8ee3a7846d4@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710092121s33f69ca7g601c9473fd8ad486@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You want "update-manager -c", not update-manager -d" On 10/10/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > um... this is the error I'm getting: > > > > "jason at rensiks-place:~$ update-manager -d > > > > Introspect error: The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not provided by > any .service files > > > > no listening object (The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not provided > by any .service files) " > > I have the individual cmd-lines spaced apart for better clarity. > > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > thanks mike > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Doh. > > > > > > Make that "update-manager -c" > > > > > > ...Today has *not* been my day. > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar ~ > > > > 22:30:27 $ update-manager --help > > > > Usage: update-manager [options] > > > > > > > > Options: > > > > -h, --help show this help message and exit > > > > -c, --check-dist-upgrades > > > > Check if a new distribution release is > available > > > > -d, --devel-release Check if upgrading to the latest devel release > is > > > > possible > > > > -p, --proposed Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > > --dist-upgrade, --dist-ugprade > > > > Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > > > > 22:30:32 $ > > > > > > > > The command you're looking for is "upgrade-manager -c" > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner < airplanejay at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that > clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch < brousch at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is to > use the > > > > > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember > doing the > > > > > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did get it > to work > > > > > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few bumps in > the > > > > > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of the > good old > > > > > System-V init with Upstart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo < rick at vargo.org > wrote: > > > > > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but > anything > > > > > > > older and you should start from scratch because there was some > major > > > > > > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that says > edgy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Run: > > > > > > > apt-get update > > > > > > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of a > CD? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > :wq > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > :wq > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > -- > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From djk at oneisp.net Wed Oct 10 09:55:03 2007 From: djk at oneisp.net (Dennis Kaminski) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:55:03 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] ** Reminder LUG Meeting (Install Fest) THIS WEEK Wednesday October 10th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A956E0@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A956E0@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <1192024503.5560.14.camel@lx52.djk.net> Casey, If it is not too late I would like to RSVP for tonight. Thanks, Dennis Kaminski On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 11:23 -0400, Casey DuBois wrote: > *** Reminder > > Hello All, > > The next GRLUG meeting is set. > Wednesday October 10th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. > > I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. > Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. > > FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/0fc6b972/attachment.htm From cdubois at n-vint.com Wed Oct 10 11:18:28 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:18:28 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Install Fest TONIGHT!! Wednesday October 10th from 6-???PM Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A95825@NVMBX01.nvint.local> LUG Install Fest TONIGHT... The Food will be ready @ 6:00pm so I don't miss anything. I have 3-desktops, 1-laptop and a couple servers to install Linux on so bring your favorite distributions. I forgot my FON router so if someone has one that they could bring.... I have a couple skids of freebies to offer the group also: Motherboards, RAM, HDD, Cards etc. So come early to get the best items. Wednesday October 10th. From: 6-??PM Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From mzuverink at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 11:51:39 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 11:51:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Install Fest TONIGHT!! Wednesday October 10th from 6-???PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A95825@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A95825@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <470CF50B.1010900@gmail.com> Casey DuBois wrote: > LUG Install Fest TONIGHT... > > The Food will be ready @ 6:00pm so I don't miss anything. > > I have 3-desktops, 1-laptop and a couple servers to install Linux on so bring your favorite distributions. I forgot my FON router so if someone has one that they could bring.... > > I have a couple skids of freebies to offer the group also: Motherboards, RAM, HDD, Cards etc. So come early to get the best items. > > Wednesday October 10th. > From: 6-??PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. > > I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. > Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. > > FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > I will bring that Buffalo a/b/g/n router if its needed, I dont have a FON router, sorry. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From airplanejay at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 12:49:18 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:49:18 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710092050y4efebcefoc5f8ee3a7846d4@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710092121s33f69ca7g601c9473fd8ad486@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b9edb810710100949i468b64e8md8ef96225d4f4dfb@mail.gmail.com> Oh, sorry, I get the same thing. doesn't matter which one I try. On 10/10/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > You want "update-manager -c", not update-manager -d" > > On 10/10/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > um... this is the error I'm getting: > > > > > > > > "jason at rensiks-place:~$ update-manager -d > > > > > > > > Introspect error: The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not > provided by > > any .service files > > > > > > > > no listening object (The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not > provided > > by any .service files) " > > > > I have the individual cmd-lines spaced apart for better clarity. > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > > thanks mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Doh. > > > > > > > > Make that "update-manager -c" > > > > > > > > ...Today has *not* been my day. > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar ~ > > > > > 22:30:27 $ update-manager --help > > > > > Usage: update-manager [options] > > > > > > > > > > Options: > > > > > -h, --help show this help message and exit > > > > > -c, --check-dist-upgrades > > > > > Check if a new distribution release is > > available > > > > > -d, --devel-release Check if upgrading to the latest devel > release > > is > > > > > possible > > > > > -p, --proposed Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > > > --dist-upgrade, --dist-ugprade > > > > > Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > > > > > 22:30:32 $ > > > > > > > > > > The command you're looking for is "upgrade-manager -c" > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner < airplanejay at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch < brousch at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is > to > > use the > > > > > > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember > > doing the > > > > > > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did > get it > > to work > > > > > > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few > bumps in > > the > > > > > > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of > the > > good old > > > > > > System-V init with Upstart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo < rick at vargo.org > wrote: > > > > > > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but > > anything > > > > > > > > older and you should start from scratch because there was > some > > major > > > > > > > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that > says > > edgy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Run: > > > > > > > > apt-get update > > > > > > > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of > a > > CD? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > :wq > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > :wq > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/58ba2e07/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 14:15:15 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:15:15 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Updating to Feisty Fawn In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710100949i468b64e8md8ef96225d4f4dfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710090957n23a9c398u82daccb21945753f@mail.gmail.com> <470BB5FA.3010801@vargo.org> <5b9edb810710091642t5ab52cd8ydd4f4f4a6fb94e84@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710092050y4efebcefoc5f8ee3a7846d4@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710092121s33f69ca7g601c9473fd8ad486@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710100949i468b64e8md8ef96225d4f4dfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Are you able to run the Update Manager from the Administration menu? On 10/10/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > Oh, sorry, I get the same thing. doesn't matter which one I try. > > > > > On 10/10/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > You want "update-manager -c", not update-manager -d" > > > > On 10/10/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > > um... this is the error I'm getting: > > > > > > > > > > > > "jason at rensiks-place:~$ update-manager -d > > > > > > > > > > > > Introspect error: The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not > provided by > > > any .service files > > > > > > > > > > > > no listening object (The name org.freedesktop.UpdateManager was not > provided > > > by any .service files) " > > > > > > I have the individual cmd-lines spaced apart for better clarity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner < airplanejay at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > thanks mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > Doh. > > > > > > > > > > Make that "update-manager -c" > > > > > > > > > > ...Today has *not* been my day. > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar ~ > > > > > > 22:30:27 $ update-manager --help > > > > > > Usage: update-manager [options] > > > > > > > > > > > > Options: > > > > > > -h, --help show this help message and exit > > > > > > -c, --check-dist-upgrades > > > > > > Check if a new distribution release is > > > available > > > > > > -d, --devel-release Check if upgrading to the latest devel > release > > > is > > > > > > possible > > > > > > -p, --proposed Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > > > > --dist-upgrade, --dist-ugprade > > > > > > Try to run a dist-upgrade > > > > > > shortcircuit at caterpillar~ > > > > > > 22:30:32 $ > > > > > > > > > > > > The command you're looking for is "upgrade-manager -c" > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Jason Kisner < airplanejay at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > I'm upgrading from edgy to feisty, sorry if I didn't make that > > > clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Ben Rousch < brousch at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > Since Dapper (I believe) the recommended upgrade procedure is > to > > > use the > > > > > > > update-manager rather than changing the repo sources. I remember > > > doing the > > > > > > > Dapper-Edgy upgrade by changing the repos, and although I did > get it > > > to work > > > > > > > after a few hours of futzing around, there were quite a few > bumps in > > > the > > > > > > > road. The big change I had trouble with was the replacement of > the > > > good old > > > > > > > System-V init with Upstart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/9/07, Rick Vargo < rick at vargo.org > wrote: > > > > > > > > > What are you upgrading from? Edgy to fawn should be OK, but > > > anything > > > > > > > > > older and you should start from scratch because there was > some > > > major > > > > > > > > > changes introduced in Edgy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Update your /etc/apt/sources.list changing every line that > says > > > edgy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Run: > > > > > > > > > apt-get update > > > > > > > > > apt-get -f dist-upgrade > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Is there a way to update to Feisty Fawn without the use of > a > > > CD? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > :wq > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > :wq > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From matt at michielsen.us Wed Oct 10 14:52:12 2007 From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:52:12 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Install Fest TONIGHT!! Wednesday October 10th from 6-???PM In-Reply-To: <470CF50B.1010900@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D5966916A95825@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <470CF50B.1010900@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have a FON router, and it's already in the backpack. -mm On 10/10/07, Marc Zuverink wrote: > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > LUG Install Fest TONIGHT... > > > > The Food will be ready @ 6:00pm so I don't miss anything. > > > > I have 3-desktops, 1-laptop and a couple servers to install Linux on so > bring your favorite distributions. I forgot my FON router so if someone has > one that they could bring.... > > > > I have a couple skids of freebies to offer the group also: Motherboards, > RAM, HDD, Cards etc. So come early to get the best items. > > > > Wednesday October 10th. > > From: 6-??PM > > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > > > I am sponsoring Brats and Burgers again so please RSVP to > cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > > > After the last meeting we decided to do an install fest. > > > > I will bring my FON router some desktops and laptops to install Linux on > however anyone is welcome to bring in hardware for us to play with. > > Also looking forward to seeing John's ipod with rockbox and maybe even > installing rockbox on someone else's ipod. > > > > FYI the WMLUG meeting is the following week on Thursday the 18th for > more info or to RSVP visit www.wmlug.org. > > > > Sincerely, > > Casey M. DuBois > > N-VINT, Inc. > > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > > 616-656-5500 Office > > 866-337-2686 Direct > > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > > cdubois at n-vint.com > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > I will bring that Buffalo a/b/g/n router if its needed, I dont have a > FON router, sorry. > > -- > Marc Zuverink > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > -Linus Torvalds > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/60d12013/attachment-0001.htm From nymanium at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 19:31:49 2007 From: nymanium at gmail.com (Jeff Nyman) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:31:49 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. Message-ID: <32097e230710101631l49a22eq99adfeef98b6755@mail.gmail.com> Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting to a request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are long gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided to switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I could get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a cd burner. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/0a431579/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 20:04:07 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:04:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. In-Reply-To: <32097e230710101631l49a22eq99adfeef98b6755@mail.gmail.com> References: <32097e230710101631l49a22eq99adfeef98b6755@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like the precursor to a "Which is best" flamewar. :-) As a beginner, I'd suggest you try Ubuntu. It has the advantage of a good combination of usability and community support. As in, if you want to know how to do something in Ubuntu, chances are that a forum somewhere has already answered your question. As for getting a copy I could physically mail you one; meeting people face-to-face is somewhat difficult for me. A question: What kind/speed is your Internet connection? A new version of Ubuntu comes out next week, and your system would update over your Internet connection, if possible. If you've got at least DSL, you shouldn't have any problem with the update. On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting to a > request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are long > gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided to > switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was > wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I could > get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a cd > burner. Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From nymanium at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 20:20:22 2007 From: nymanium at gmail.com (Jeff Nyman) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:20:22 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. In-Reply-To: References: <32097e230710101631l49a22eq99adfeef98b6755@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32097e230710101720n210c8fb9o65415dde84622b2b@mail.gmail.com> I got cable so updates are no problem, I did some looking around and ubuntu sounds like a good choice. I'll let you know if I do need one mailed, seems like I can use my brothers computer tomorrow, though it'll be a bit of a drive. On 10/10/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Sounds like the precursor to a "Which is best" flamewar. :-) > > As a beginner, I'd suggest you try Ubuntu. It has the advantage of a > good combination of usability and community support. As in, if you > want to know how to do something in Ubuntu, chances are that a forum > somewhere has already answered your question. > > As for getting a copy I could physically mail you one; meeting people > face-to-face is somewhat difficult for me. > > A question: What kind/speed is your Internet connection? A new version > of Ubuntu comes out next week, and your system would update over your > Internet connection, if possible. If you've got at least DSL, you > shouldn't have any problem with the update. > > On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > > Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting > to a > > request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are > long > > gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided > to > > switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was > > wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I > could > > get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a > cd > > burner. Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/3acff4e7/attachment.htm From geektoyz at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 20:36:48 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:36:48 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Moving MySQL Data Dir In-Reply-To: <200710091124.15819.rvillarreal@mktec.com> References: <200710091124.15819.rvillarreal@mktec.com> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10710101736l163e133eqdefdd63196cfe506@mail.gmail.com> Ownership/Permissions are generally the killer. Check the "/var/lib/mysql" directory and copy exactly ( cp -a /var/lib/mysql /db/ && mv /var/lib/mysql /var/lib/mysql-bak ). After you check those, make a symbolic link from the old dir to the new ( ln -s /db/mysql /var/lib/ ). If it's just a matter of something not finding stuff, that should tell ya. G- On 10/9/07, Roberto Villarreal wrote: > On Tuesday 09 October 2007, Olding, Jim wrote: > > I'm trying to move the data dir for MySQL on CentOS from the > > default (/var/lib/mysql) to a 2nd drive (/db/mysql). Here's the > > process I'm following: > > > > Stop the running MySQLd service > > Copy everything in /var/lib/mysql to /db/mysql > > Update /etc/my.cnf to point datadir to /db/mysql > > Start MySQLd > > > > Here's the output from trying to start the service back up after > > the move: > > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld start > > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld status > > mysqld (pid 5851) is running... > > > > And here's mysqld.log: > > 071009 10:17:41 mysqld started > > 071009 10:17:41 InnoDB: Started; log sequence number 0 2650890 > > /usr/libexec/mysqld: ready for connections. > > Version: '4.1.20' socket: '/db/mysql/mysql.sock' port: 3306 > > Source distribution > > > > I can see the mysqld process running, and it is listening on port > > 3306, but nothing can seem to connect to it. If I point datadir > > back to /var/lib/mysql, everything works beautifully. Ideas? > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > Shot in the dark, but verify the socket is actually created (i.e. > permissions). By default, if you are trying to connect to a local > DB, it will use the socket. So just because the port is open doesn't > really mean anything. You could probably try starting the client > forcing the use of the port (or accessing the DB from another host, > if you have proper permissions), and I'm guessing it might work. > Hopefully this gives you a starting point at least... > > Roberto > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 10 21:49:02 2007 From: jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net (Jerry Neal) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <162639.40922.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Which one is best depends on what you want to do. The degree of your knowledge of Windows (and computers in general) is relevant, because you'll most likely end up with a distro that hits that level. If you just want to surf the net and do email, ANY distro will do. I personally am running openSUSE 10.3 at the moment, but I've installed and run probably 80-100 distros in the last 8 years, and the truth is there are about a dozen that are really, really good, and most of them are at the top of the list on DistroWatch. I have a friend who just wants to do surf the net and do email who's very happy using Damn Small Linux. My brother just wants to K3B and GnuCash--pretty much any distro would do there, too, so I let him use a bunch of live CDs. Puppy Linux is good, but it's chooses oddball applications. I would say Ubuntu (I prefer Kubuntu) would be just fine for a complete beginner, and so would the new version of Freespire, and, in my judgement, MEPIS. They're also easy to install. openSUSE, Fedora, Mandriva, and Debian are considered more difficult, but still new brand new users have successfully installed and learned to use them. I would say that installation of these is slightly more difficult, but not much more difficult than installing Windows. I would make two recommendations. One, as a newcomer to Linux, completely avoid Slackware and Gentoo. They're not bad distros, but they do require more knowledge to install. Second, grab a live CD or DVD and try them all out before you decide which one to install. You don't have to install a thing this way--it runs from the CD. Ubuntu/Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, SimplyMEPIS, KNOPPIX, openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, and Mandriva all have live CD/DVD versions you can try without partitioning your hard drive. Underneath the hood, all distros run the same kernel and use pretty much the same applications (and can add pretty much the same ones). The main differences are eye-candy and package managing methods. So if you've learned to really handle one distro (leaving Slackware and Gentoo and the package management issue out of the loop here), you've pretty much learned them all. There's no right or wrong here. The question is: what do you want to do? What works for YOU? grlug-request at grlug.org wrote: Send grlug mailing list submissions to grlug at grlug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to grlug-request at grlug.org You can reach the person managing the list at grlug-owner at grlug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of grlug digest..." Today's Topics: 1. New member looking for install. (Jeff Nyman) 2. Re: New member looking for install. (Michael Mol) 3. Re: New member looking for install. (Jeff Nyman) 4. Re: Moving MySQL Data Dir (Godwin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:31:49 -0400 From: "Jeff Nyman" Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: <32097e230710101631l49a22eq99adfeef98b6755 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting to a request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are long gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided to switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I could get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a cd burner. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/0a431579/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:04:07 -0400 From: "Michael Mol" Subject: Re: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sounds like the precursor to a "Which is best" flamewar. :-) As a beginner, I'd suggest you try Ubuntu. It has the advantage of a good combination of usability and community support. As in, if you want to know how to do something in Ubuntu, chances are that a forum somewhere has already answered your question. As for getting a copy I could physically mail you one; meeting people face-to-face is somewhat difficult for me. A question: What kind/speed is your Internet connection? A new version of Ubuntu comes out next week, and your system would update over your Internet connection, if possible. If you've got at least DSL, you shouldn't have any problem with the update. On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting to a > request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are long > gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided to > switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was > wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I could > get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a cd > burner. Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:20:22 -0400 From: "Jeff Nyman" Subject: Re: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: <32097e230710101720n210c8fb9o65415dde84622b2b at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I got cable so updates are no problem, I did some looking around and ubuntu sounds like a good choice. I'll let you know if I do need one mailed, seems like I can use my brothers computer tomorrow, though it'll be a bit of a drive. On 10/10/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Sounds like the precursor to a "Which is best" flamewar. :-) > > As a beginner, I'd suggest you try Ubuntu. It has the advantage of a > good combination of usability and community support. As in, if you > want to know how to do something in Ubuntu, chances are that a forum > somewhere has already answered your question. > > As for getting a copy I could physically mail you one; meeting people > face-to-face is somewhat difficult for me. > > A question: What kind/speed is your Internet connection? A new version > of Ubuntu comes out next week, and your system would update over your > Internet connection, if possible. If you've got at least DSL, you > shouldn't have any problem with the update. > > On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > > Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting > to a > > request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are > long > > gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided > to > > switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was > > wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I > could > > get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a > cd > > burner. Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/3acff4e7/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:36:48 -0400 From: Godwin Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Moving MySQL Data Dir To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: <8b72b8d10710101736l163e133eqdefdd63196cfe506 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Ownership/Permissions are generally the killer. Check the "/var/lib/mysql" directory and copy exactly ( cp -a /var/lib/mysql /db/ && mv /var/lib/mysql /var/lib/mysql-bak ). After you check those, make a symbolic link from the old dir to the new ( ln -s /db/mysql /var/lib/ ). If it's just a matter of something not finding stuff, that should tell ya. G- On 10/9/07, Roberto Villarreal wrote: > On Tuesday 09 October 2007, Olding, Jim wrote: > > I'm trying to move the data dir for MySQL on CentOS from the > > default (/var/lib/mysql) to a 2nd drive (/db/mysql). Here's the > > process I'm following: > > > > Stop the running MySQLd service > > Copy everything in /var/lib/mysql to /db/mysql > > Update /etc/my.cnf to point datadir to /db/mysql > > Start MySQLd > > > > Here's the output from trying to start the service back up after > > the move: > > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld start > > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld status > > mysqld (pid 5851) is running... > > > > And here's mysqld.log: > > 071009 10:17:41 mysqld started > > 071009 10:17:41 InnoDB: Started; log sequence number 0 2650890 > > /usr/libexec/mysqld: ready for connections. > > Version: '4.1.20' socket: '/db/mysql/mysql.sock' port: 3306 > > Source distribution > > > > I can see the mysqld process running, and it is listening on port > > 3306, but nothing can seem to connect to it. If I point datadir > > back to /var/lib/mysql, everything works beautifully. Ideas? > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > Shot in the dark, but verify the socket is actually created (i.e. > permissions). By default, if you are trying to connect to a local > DB, it will use the socket. So just because the port is open doesn't > really mean anything. You could probably try starting the client > forcing the use of the port (or accessing the DB from another host, > if you have proper permissions), and I'm guessing it might work. > Hopefully this gives you a starting point at least... > > Roberto > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug End of grlug Digest, Vol 19, Issue 15 ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/defanged-1 Size: 12567 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/85adb547/attachment-0001.bin From jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 10 21:49:23 2007 From: jerrydneal at sbcglobal.net (Jerry Neal) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <162551.6294.qm@web81708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Which one is best depends on what you want to do. The degree of your knowledge of Windows (and computers in general) is relevant, because you'll most likely end up with a distro that hits that level. If you just want to surf the net and do email, ANY distro will do. I personally am running openSUSE 10.3 at the moment, but I've installed and run probably 80-100 distros in the last 8 years, and the truth is there are about a dozen that are really, really good, and most of them are at the top of the list on DistroWatch. I have a friend who just wants to do surf the net and do email who's very happy using Damn Small Linux. My brother just wants to K3B and GnuCash--pretty much any distro would do there, too, so I let him use a bunch of live CDs. Puppy Linux is good, but it's chooses oddball applications. I would say Ubuntu (I prefer Kubuntu) would be just fine for a complete beginner, and so would the new version of Freespire, and, in my judgement, MEPIS. They're also easy to install. openSUSE, Fedora, Mandriva, and Debian are considered more difficult, but still new brand new users have successfully installed and learned to use them. I would say that installation of these is slightly more difficult, but not much more difficult than installing Windows. I would make two recommendations. One, as a newcomer to Linux, completely avoid Slackware and Gentoo. They're not bad distros, but they do require more knowledge to install. Second, grab a live CD or DVD and try them all out before you decide which one to install. You don't have to install a thing this way--it runs from the CD. Ubuntu/Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, SimplyMEPIS, KNOPPIX, openSUSE, Fedora, Debian, and Mandriva all have live CD/DVD versions you can try without partitioning your hard drive. Underneath the hood, all distros run the same kernel and use pretty much the same applications (and can add pretty much the same ones). The main differences are eye-candy and package managing methods. So if you've learned to really handle one distro (leaving Slackware and Gentoo and the package management issue out of the loop here), you've pretty much learned them all. There's no right or wrong here. The question is: what do you want to do? What works for YOU? grlug-request at grlug.org wrote: Send grlug mailing list submissions to grlug at grlug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to grlug-request at grlug.org You can reach the person managing the list at grlug-owner at grlug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of grlug digest..." Today's Topics: 1. New member looking for install. (Jeff Nyman) 2. Re: New member looking for install. (Michael Mol) 3. Re: New member looking for install. (Jeff Nyman) 4. Re: Moving MySQL Data Dir (Godwin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:31:49 -0400 From: "Jeff Nyman" Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: <32097e230710101631l49a22eq99adfeef98b6755 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting to a request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are long gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided to switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I could get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a cd burner. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/0a431579/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:04:07 -0400 From: "Michael Mol" Subject: Re: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sounds like the precursor to a "Which is best" flamewar. :-) As a beginner, I'd suggest you try Ubuntu. It has the advantage of a good combination of usability and community support. As in, if you want to know how to do something in Ubuntu, chances are that a forum somewhere has already answered your question. As for getting a copy I could physically mail you one; meeting people face-to-face is somewhat difficult for me. A question: What kind/speed is your Internet connection? A new version of Ubuntu comes out next week, and your system would update over your Internet connection, if possible. If you've got at least DSL, you shouldn't have any problem with the update. On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting to a > request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are long > gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided to > switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was > wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I could > get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a cd > burner. Thanks. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:20:22 -0400 From: "Jeff Nyman" Subject: Re: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: <32097e230710101720n210c8fb9o65415dde84622b2b at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I got cable so updates are no problem, I did some looking around and ubuntu sounds like a good choice. I'll let you know if I do need one mailed, seems like I can use my brothers computer tomorrow, though it'll be a bit of a drive. On 10/10/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Sounds like the precursor to a "Which is best" flamewar. :-) > > As a beginner, I'd suggest you try Ubuntu. It has the advantage of a > good combination of usability and community support. As in, if you > want to know how to do something in Ubuntu, chances are that a forum > somewhere has already answered your question. > > As for getting a copy I could physically mail you one; meeting people > face-to-face is somewhat difficult for me. > > A question: What kind/speed is your Internet connection? A new version > of Ubuntu comes out next week, and your system would update over your > Internet connection, if possible. If you've got at least DSL, you > shouldn't have any problem with the update. > > On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > > Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting > to a > > request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are > long > > gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided > to > > switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was > > wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I > could > > get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a > cd > > burner. Thanks. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/3acff4e7/attachment-0001.htm ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:36:48 -0400 From: Godwin Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Moving MySQL Data Dir To: grlug at grlug.org Message-ID: <8b72b8d10710101736l163e133eqdefdd63196cfe506 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Ownership/Permissions are generally the killer. Check the "/var/lib/mysql" directory and copy exactly ( cp -a /var/lib/mysql /db/ && mv /var/lib/mysql /var/lib/mysql-bak ). After you check those, make a symbolic link from the old dir to the new ( ln -s /db/mysql /var/lib/ ). If it's just a matter of something not finding stuff, that should tell ya. G- On 10/9/07, Roberto Villarreal wrote: > On Tuesday 09 October 2007, Olding, Jim wrote: > > I'm trying to move the data dir for MySQL on CentOS from the > > default (/var/lib/mysql) to a 2nd drive (/db/mysql). Here's the > > process I'm following: > > > > Stop the running MySQLd service > > Copy everything in /var/lib/mysql to /db/mysql > > Update /etc/my.cnf to point datadir to /db/mysql > > Start MySQLd > > > > Here's the output from trying to start the service back up after > > the move: > > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld start > > Timeout error occurred trying to start MySQL Daemon. > > Starting MySQL: [FAILED] > > [root at lct-linux mysql]# service mysqld status > > mysqld (pid 5851) is running... > > > > And here's mysqld.log: > > 071009 10:17:41 mysqld started > > 071009 10:17:41 InnoDB: Started; log sequence number 0 2650890 > > /usr/libexec/mysqld: ready for connections. > > Version: '4.1.20' socket: '/db/mysql/mysql.sock' port: 3306 > > Source distribution > > > > I can see the mysqld process running, and it is listening on port > > 3306, but nothing can seem to connect to it. If I point datadir > > back to /var/lib/mysql, everything works beautifully. Ideas? > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > Shot in the dark, but verify the socket is actually created (i.e. > permissions). By default, if you are trying to connect to a local > DB, it will use the socket. So just because the port is open doesn't > really mean anything. You could probably try starting the client > forcing the use of the port (or accessing the DB from another host, > if you have proper permissions), and I'm guessing it might work. > Hopefully this gives you a starting point at least... > > Roberto > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug End of grlug Digest, Vol 19, Issue 15 ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/defanged-56122 Size: 12567 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071010/ee66c223/attachment-0001.bin From mzuverink at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 23:34:50 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:34:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Freenode IRC Channel Message-ID: <470D99DA.90000@gmail.com> Thought it might be a good idea to form an irc channel, so well, head over to freenode and "/join #grlug" Hope to see you, and thanks to Casey for the most excellent evening. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From fusion at darktech.org Thu Oct 11 01:56:07 2007 From: fusion at darktech.org (Alexander Grotewohl) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:56:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Freenode IRC Channel In-Reply-To: <470D99DA.90000@gmail.com> References: <470D99DA.90000@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071011055607.GC10526@atlantis> we've tried this before :) even have a local server.. it was idle massiv in there though -- Alexander Grotewohl http://cfbbs.net/ On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 11:34:50PM -0400, Marc Zuverink wrote: > Thought it might be a good idea to form an irc channel, so well, head > over to freenode and "/join #grlug" > Hope to see you, and thanks to Casey for the most excellent evening. > -- > Marc Zuverink > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > -Linus Torvalds > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From mzuverink at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 02:00:42 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:00:42 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Freenode IRC Channel In-Reply-To: <20071011055607.GC10526@atlantis> References: <470D99DA.90000@gmail.com> <20071011055607.GC10526@atlantis> Message-ID: <470DBC0A.7000001@gmail.com> Alexander Grotewohl wrote: > we've tried this before :) even have a local server.. it was idle > massiv in there though > Well seems the group has undergone some sort of rejuvenation, hopefully we can get some action, as for me, Ill babysit an empty channel if it will help even one person and or further our group. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com Thu Oct 11 08:30:17 2007 From: JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com (Olding, Jim) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:30:17 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Moving MySQL Data Dir In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10710101736l163e133eqdefdd63196cfe506@mail.gmail.com> References: <200710091124.15819.rvillarreal@mktec.com> <8b72b8d10710101736l163e133eqdefdd63196cfe506@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Turns out it was a permissions error on the new directory that wasn't allowing it to create the socket file. It's up and running now. -----Original Message----- From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of Godwin Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 8:37 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Moving MySQL Data Dir Ownership/Permissions are generally the killer. Check the "/var/lib/mysql" directory and copy exactly ( cp -a /var/lib/mysql /db/ && mv /var/lib/mysql /var/lib/mysql-bak ). After you check those, make a symbolic link from the old dir to the new ( ln -s /db/mysql /var/lib/ ). If it's just a matter of something not finding stuff, that should tell ya. G- From flanderb at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 10:02:44 2007 From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 10:02:44 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] New member looking for install. In-Reply-To: <32097e230710101720n210c8fb9o65415dde84622b2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <32097e230710101631l49a22eq99adfeef98b6755@mail.gmail.com> <32097e230710101720n210c8fb9o65415dde84622b2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I totally agree with the Ubuntu suggestion solely on the fact that there are so many people using it, if something could/does go wrong, you are a google search away from a fix because someone out there had the issue before you and placed it out on the webs. My one suggestion though, if you want to play around and learn more about linux in general, would be to leave a part of your harddrive unpartitioned so you can install and play with other distros easily in the future. On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > I got cable so updates are no problem, I did some looking around and ubuntu > sounds like a good choice. I'll let you know if I do need one mailed, seems > like I can use my brothers computer tomorrow, though it'll be a bit of a > drive. > > > > > On 10/10/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Sounds like the precursor to a "Which is best" flamewar. :-) > > > > As a beginner, I'd suggest you try Ubuntu. It has the advantage of a > > good combination of usability and community support. As in, if you > > want to know how to do something in Ubuntu, chances are that a forum > > somewhere has already answered your question. > > > > As for getting a copy I could physically mail you one; meeting people > > face-to-face is somewhat difficult for me. > > > > A question: What kind/speed is your Internet connection? A new version > > of Ubuntu comes out next week, and your system would update over your > > Internet connection, if possible. If you've got at least DSL, you > > shouldn't have any problem with the update. > > > > On 10/10/07, Jeff Nyman wrote: > > > Hi just found this website, so just a quick hello to all before getting > to a > > > request. My windows based pc got a corrupted install and my discs are > long > > > gone and I know no one with a disk I can use to repair, so I've decided > to > > > switch to a linux os since I've been considering it a while. But I was > > > wondering which one is the best for a starter, and if possible if I > could > > > get a copy of it from someone since I'm without convenient access to a > cd > > > burner. Thanks. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Share and Enjoy From airplanejay at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 14:17:10 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:17:10 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... Message-ID: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to be the easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now I need to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. When I upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so I just installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071014/b467da32/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 19:04:07 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:04:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The simple solution would be to tar up your home directory and copy it to another machine. A better solution for your problem would be to use the command line to upgrade your system. What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list? On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to be the > easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now I need > to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. When I > upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so I just > installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From airplanejay at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 20:24:07 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:24:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/14/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > The simple solution would be to tar up your home directory and copy it > to another machine. > > A better solution for your problem would be to use the command line to > upgrade your system. What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list? > > On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to be > the > > easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now I > need > > to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. When > I > > upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so I > just > > installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. > > > > -- > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071014/6cbf8d7c/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sources.list Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2654 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071014/6cbf8d7c/attachment.obj From mikemol at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 20:53:40 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:53:40 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Here's a cheat to upgrade: Run: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade Then copy every line in your sources.list files that begins with deb or deb-src, replacing "edgy" with "feisty". Then run these commands: apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade It'll take a while, but you should be running Feisty by the end of the process, as long as you don't abort the process, and as long as nothing breaks. It'll occasionally ask you if you want to overwrite a modified configuration file. Knowing your system, chances are that's fine. You can force it to automatically overwrite them by adding --force-yes to your commands. (Though that's not recommended.) Again, once you start the dist-upgrade, *don't* abort it. If you do, it really will be easier to re-install the system than to clean out all the broken bits. On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > On 10/14/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > The simple solution would be to tar up your home directory and copy it > > to another machine. > > > > A better solution for your problem would be to use the command line to > > upgrade your system. What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list? > > > > On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > > I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to be > the > > > easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now I > need > > > to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. When > I > > > upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so I > just > > > installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. > > > > > > -- > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > -- :wq From airplanejay at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 22:15:55 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:15:55 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b9edb810710141915x7d73d8d0y181448f19f75c58e@mail.gmail.com> thanks :) On 10/14/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Here's a cheat to upgrade: > > Run: apt-get update && apt-get upgrade > > Then copy every line in your sources.list files that begins with deb > or deb-src, replacing "edgy" with "feisty". > > Then run these commands: > apt-get update > apt-get dist-upgrade > > It'll take a while, but you should be running Feisty by the end of the > process, as long as you don't abort the process, and as long as > nothing breaks. It'll occasionally ask you if you want to overwrite a > modified configuration file. Knowing your system, chances are that's > fine. You can force it to automatically overwrite them by adding > --force-yes to your commands. (Though that's not recommended.) > > Again, once you start the dist-upgrade, *don't* abort it. If you do, > it really will be easier to re-install the system than to clean out > all the broken bits. > > On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 10/14/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > The simple solution would be to tar up your home directory and copy it > > > to another machine. > > > > > > A better solution for your problem would be to use the command line to > > > upgrade your system. What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list? > > > > > > On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > > > I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to > be > > the > > > > easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now > I > > need > > > > to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. > When > > I > > > > upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so > I > > just > > > > installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > :wq > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071014/8613f1b4/attachment.htm From mzuverink at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 01:56:45 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:56:45 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4713011D.9030806@gmail.com> Jason Kisner wrote: > On 10/14/07, Michael Mol wrote: >> The simple solution would be to tar up your home directory and copy it >> to another machine. >> >> A better solution for your problem would be to use the command line to >> upgrade your system. What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list? >> >> On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: >>> I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to be >> the >>> easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now I >> need >>> to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. When >> I >>> upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so I >> just >>> installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. >>> >>> -- >>> Rensik nosaj si eman ym. >>> Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>> >> >> -- >> :wq >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug I really suggest that you do NOT use Automatix, it causes all kinds of update/upgrade problems by not following the Ubuntu model of file system placement of files. I suggest strongly that you use the info from http://easylinux.info instead which will provide you with the ability to not only install all the programs that Automatix installs, but a whole lot more to boot. They even provide you with a proper source list to get your repos sources.list file all set up. I would do what was suggested and tar up your /home dir then do a fresh install. There are nice tools which you can install to make backups more easy. In the future please also note that having a separate partition for /home would alleviate having to back up /home, yet that really is not a good idea either, because the first time you depend on it to not touch /home is when you will screw up and forget to not format /home when you go to do a fresh install. Having a backup is always the best practice. Removable media and external hd's are cheap enough now a days that you could do like I do and just select all files in your /home and copy them over to a dir on the external and then you are off to a fresh install. The easylinux.info page may be a bit tedious, having to cli install all that stuff, but in the long run you will have learned something invaluable, how to do things yourself, and knowing where you are getting your stuff from. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From airplanejay at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 09:49:53 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:49:53 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... In-Reply-To: <4713011D.9030806@gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> <4713011D.9030806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b9edb810710150649t418ed59at96a55d1bc2ef2527@mail.gmail.com> thanks :) ... unfortunately I was impatient... I'm not sure what I did wrong but I followed what Mike said and something broke... It wouldn't even let me access root.. but anyway, I ended up using the disc I created. It saved my /home dir but it kept it as a seperate partition... now I have to mount that partition every time I reboot my computer. X| On 10/15/07, Marc Zuverink wrote: > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > On 10/14/07, Michael Mol wrote: > >> The simple solution would be to tar up your home directory and copy it > >> to another machine. > >> > >> A better solution for your problem would be to use the command line to > >> upgrade your system. What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list? > >> > >> On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > >>> I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to be > >> the > >>> easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now I > >> need > >>> to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. > When > >> I > >>> upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so I > >> just > >>> installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > >>> Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> grlug mailing list > >>> grlug at grlug.org > >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> :wq > >> _______________________________________________ > >> grlug mailing list > >> grlug at grlug.org > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > I really suggest that you do NOT use Automatix, it causes all kinds of > update/upgrade problems by not following the Ubuntu model of file system > placement of files. > > I suggest strongly that you use the info from http://easylinux.info > instead which will provide you with the ability to not only install all > the programs that Automatix installs, but a whole lot more to boot. They > even provide you with a proper source list to get your repos > sources.list file all set up. > > I would do what was suggested and tar up your /home dir then do a fresh > install. There are nice tools which you can install to make backups > more easy. > > In the future please also note that having a separate partition for > /home would alleviate having to back up /home, yet that really is not a > good idea either, because the first time you depend on it to not touch > /home is when you will screw up and forget to not format /home when you > go to do a fresh install. Having a backup is always the best practice. > Removable media and external hd's are cheap enough now a days that you > could do like I do and just select all files in your /home and copy them > over to a dir on the external and then you are off to a fresh install. > > The easylinux.info page may be a bit tedious, having to cli install all > that stuff, but in the long run you will have learned something > invaluable, how to do things yourself, and knowing where you are getting > your stuff from. > > -- > Marc Zuverink > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > -Linus Torvalds > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071015/d8803b03/attachment-0001.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Mon Oct 15 10:00:41 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:00:41 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Installing Feisty Fawn... In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810710150649t418ed59at96a55d1bc2ef2527@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810710141117iff7f7b0tf4281bbb285ce145@mail.gmail.com> <5b9edb810710141724q1a23823fl2ac1bab5dcfc344d@mail.gmail.com> <4713011D.9030806@gmail.com> <5b9edb810710150649t418ed59at96a55d1bc2ef2527@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920710150700m7b579c0du6e25920fe8083b4f@mail.gmail.com> On 10/15/07, Jason Kisner wrote: > > thanks :) > > ... unfortunately I was impatient... I'm not sure what I did wrong but I > followed what Mike said and something broke... It wouldn't even let me > access root.. but anyway, I ended up using the disc I created. It saved my > /home dir but it kept it as a seperate partition... now I have to mount that > partition every time I reboot my computer. X| Having your home dir isn't uncommon at all. Just add a line to /etc/fstab /dev/device_name /home ext3 defaults,user_xattr 0 0 This way the kernel will mount the partition on boot. On 10/15/07, Marc Zuverink wrote: > > > Jason Kisner wrote: > > > On 10/14/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > >> The simple solution would be to tar up your home directory and copy > > it > > >> to another machine. > > >> > > >> A better solution for your problem would be to use the command line > > to > > >> upgrade your system. What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list? > > >> > > >> On 10/14/07, Jason Kisner < airplanejay at gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> I decided to go and make an Install disc anyways since it seemed to > > be > > >> the > > >>> easier solution (in reference to "Updating to Feisty Fawn"), but now > > I > > >> need > > >>> to know how to install without losing everything on my hard drive. > > When > > >> I > > >>> upgraded from Dapper to Edgy I didn't have any thing worth saving so > > I > > >> just > > >>> installed over everything. Now I have too much to lose. > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > > >>> Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> grlug mailing list > > >>> grlug at grlug.org > > >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > >>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> :wq > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> grlug mailing list > > >> grlug at grlug.org > > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > I really suggest that you do NOT use Automatix, it causes all kinds of > > update/upgrade problems by not following the Ubuntu model of file system > > placement of files. > > > > I suggest strongly that you use the info from http://easylinux.info > > instead which will provide you with the ability to not only install all > > the programs that Automatix installs, but a whole lot more to boot. They > > > > even provide you with a proper source list to get your repos > > sources.list file all set up. > > > > I would do what was suggested and tar up your /home dir then do a fresh > > install. There are nice tools which you can install to make backups > > more easy. > > > > In the future please also note that having a separate partition for > > /home would alleviate having to back up /home, yet that really is not a > > good idea either, because the first time you depend on it to not touch > > /home is when you will screw up and forget to not format /home when you > > go to do a fresh install. Having a backup is always the best practice. > > Removable media and external hd's are cheap enough now a days that you > > could do like I do and just select all files in your /home and copy them > > over to a dir on the external and then you are off to a fresh install. > > > > The easylinux.info page may be a bit tedious, having to cli install all > > that stuff, but in the long run you will have learned something > > invaluable, how to do things yourself, and knowing where you are getting > > your stuff from. > > > > -- > > Marc Zuverink < mzuverink at gmail.com> > > > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > > -Linus Torvalds > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > Rensik nosaj si eman ym. > Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071015/18f38e3b/attachment-0001.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 15:20:23 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:20:23 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates Message-ID: I run two versions of Linux. Kubuntu 7.04, and a recent version of Mandriva. I recently acquired an external hard drive housing, which takes IDE drives, and has a USB 2 interface. When I use it I mount it using the command mount -t ext3 /dev/X /disk2 and then proceed to transfer files. Transfer them slowly that is. 21GB in about 6 hours, which works out to a little less than 8Mbps. This does involve moving tens of thousands of small files, which does slow things down some, but not this much. Going through the same motions under Mandriva yields a transfer rate about 3X higher, or about 24Mbps. I take it the default setting are different in some slightly significant way. Given the nominal USB 2 rate of 480Mbps, this is not very impressive. One does not of course expect anything close to the 480Mbps, but 80Mbps or so would seem to be closer to reasonable expectations. With big files one even gets 70Mbps over a 100Mbps Ethernet link. Looking around online, it's clear this is a widespread problem. The only solid lead I've seen is to somehow suppress the "sync" function, which does seem to be standard. It's clear how to do this using /etc/fstab, but as shown above, I don't use that for now. Does anyone have any tips or suggestions? While the transfers are robust, and in a sense everything is working, the rates are almost too slow to be of interest. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071020/977535c0/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 15:36:05 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:36:05 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > I run two versions of Linux. Kubuntu > 7.04, and a recent version of Mandriva. > > I recently acquired an external hard drive > housing, which takes IDE drives, and has > a USB 2 interface. > > When I use it I mount it using the command > > mount -t ext3 /dev/X /disk2 > > and then proceed to transfer files. [snipped] > Looking around online, it's clear this is a > widespread problem. The only solid lead I've > seen is to somehow suppress the "sync" > function, which does seem to be standard. > It's clear how to do this using /etc/fstab, but > as shown above, I don't use that for now. > > Does anyone have any tips or suggestions? > While the transfers are robust, and in a > sense everything is working, the rates are > almost too slow to be of interest. How about: mount -t ext3 -o async /dev/X /disk2 -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 16:47:53 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:47:53 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/20/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > I run two versions of Linux. Kubuntu > > 7.04, and a recent version of Mandriva. > > > > I recently acquired an external hard drive > > housing, which takes IDE drives, and has > > a USB 2 interface. > > > > When I use it I mount it using the command > > > > mount -t ext3 /dev/X /disk2 > > > > and then proceed to transfer files. > > [snipped] > > > Looking around online, it's clear this is a > > widespread problem. The only solid lead I've > > seen is to somehow suppress the "sync" > > function, which does seem to be standard. > > It's clear how to do this using /etc/fstab, but > > as shown above, I don't use that for now. > > > > Does anyone have any tips or suggestions? > > While the transfers are robust, and in a > > sense everything is working, the rates are > > almost too slow to be of interest. > > How about: > > mount -t ext3 -o async /dev/X /disk2 That would seem to make sense, but the man page for mount suggests that the default is async. One can use mount -t ext3 -o defaults /dev/X /disk2 but its unclear why this is useful. I'm assuming that one doesn't need it, but will try it just to be sure. More later. Thanks. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071020/7485ea07/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 19:05:00 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:05:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > I run two versions of Linux. Kubuntu > > > 7.04, and a recent version of Mandriva. > > > > > > I recently acquired an external hard drive > > > housing, which takes IDE drives, and has > > > a USB 2 interface. > > > > > > When I use it I mount it using the command > > > > > > mount -t ext3 /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > and then proceed to transfer files. > > > > [snipped] > > > > > Looking around online, it's clear this is a > > > widespread problem. The only solid lead I've > > > seen is to somehow suppress the "sync" > > > function, which does seem to be standard. > > > It's clear how to do this using /etc/fstab, but > > > as shown above, I don't use that for now. > > > > > > Does anyone have any tips or suggestions? > > > While the transfers are robust, and in a > > > sense everything is working, the rates are > > > almost too slow to be of interest. > > > > How about: > > > > mount -t ext3 -o async /dev/X /disk2 > > > That would seem to make sense, but the > man page for mount suggests that the > default is async. > > One can use > > mount -t ext3 -o defaults /dev/X /disk2 > > but its unclear why this is useful. I'm > assuming that one doesn't need it, but > will try it just to be sure. > > More later. > > Thanks. > > -Bob > The async option is apparently the default, and has no affect on the slow transfer rates I'm seeing. Some have wondered whether the connection is somehow defaulting to a USB 1.1 mode. But if so, I see no way to do anything about that. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071020/9d249343/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 19:05:02 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:05:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] My review of Ubuntu 7.10: Gooey Gumdrop Message-ID: Well, after spending a day arguing with it and researching, I've determined a couple things. First, Compiz does *not* appear to be enabled by default on *upgraded* systems. In fact, I've noticed aggressive appears to be due to the i810 X11 driver being upgraded. Setting special effects to "normal" (enabling Compiz) instead of the upgrade-default of "none" improved performance somewhat, mainly by not forcing re-draws of windows while I was resizing them. Setting special effects to "Extra" reveals some broken behavior, though. Most folks who use GUIs should be familiar with snap effects, where a window will snuggle cozily against screen edges or other surfaces. With special effects set to "Extra", the snap range is way too high; Windows within fifty pixels or so of the screen size snap to an edge, and can't be pulled away. Combined with the gooey gumdrop appearance one gets when one drags the title bar around, one gets the distinct feeling one's in a tug-of-war. In addition, the upgraded i810 driver causes lag issues with Stepmania, making the game absolutely unplayable on my system. Which royally sucks, because that's exactly what I'd intended to do all weekend. It's likely that the i810 driver has been optimized for newer graphics chipsets, which means my best course of action would be to upgrade my video card, which is unfortunate, as I don't have anything better than a PCI slot. Plus, I can't spare $60 right now for even a PCI video card. Finally, there weren't any "wow" features or fixes for me in 7.10. In Edgy, they fixed some wireless weirdness that was giving me a hassle. The biggest problem I had had with Ubuntu up to this point was a high latency between volume-key presses and changes in system volume. (I think it's starting an app to handle the key presses.) So 7.10 is, for me, an overall regression. I hereby christen Ubuntu 7.10 as "Gooey Gumdrop", after the weird special effects behavior, and give it a rating of two (out of five) stars. Mike -- :wq From mikemol at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 19:20:27 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:20:27 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: [snipped] > > > How about: > > > > > > mount -t ext3 -o async /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > > > That would seem to make sense, but the > > man page for mount suggests that the > > default is async. > > > > One can use > > > > mount -t ext3 -o defaults /dev/X /disk2 > > > > but its unclear why this is useful. I'm > > assuming that one doesn't need it, but > > will try it just to be sure. > > > > More later. [snipped] > > The async option is apparently the default, > and has no affect on the slow transfer rates > I'm seeing. > > Some have wondered whether the connection > is somehow defaulting to a USB 1.1 mode. But > if so, I see no way to do anything about that. What kind of performance do you get if you try: dd if=/dev/X of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1000 -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 19:47:43 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:47:43 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality Message-ID: Those of you with Comcast might be interested in this: http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/10/19/comcast/ For those of you that don't have Comcast, what one company does others might follow. Comcast has been less than forthcoming about its activities, and was dug out by the Associated Press. The head of SBC, and later AT&T, mumbled a couple of years ago that he didn't see why people should be able to use "his" fibers to put competitive services on. In that case phone service like Vonage. While companies like Comcast are trying to snow Congress in to thinking there is no need for net neutrality legislation, clearly there is. The alternative is to let outfits like Comcast do for the Internet what it and DirecTV have done for TV - just a sea of ads, with the not so subtle hint you might want to buy some premium services if you want to actually watch any programming. With the Internet we might end up paying for premium services just to stay where we are now. Otherwise Comcast might just want to make your life miserable. And don't forget that it is a monopoly in many of the areas it serves. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071020/120773a3/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 19:50:19 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:50:19 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/20/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > [snipped] > > > > > How about: > > > > > > > > mount -t ext3 -o async /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > > > > > > > That would seem to make sense, but the > > > man page for mount suggests that the > > > default is async. > > > > > > One can use > > > > > > mount -t ext3 -o defaults /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > but its unclear why this is useful. I'm > > > assuming that one doesn't need it, but > > > will try it just to be sure. > > > > > > More later. > > [snipped] > > > > > The async option is apparently the default, > > and has no affect on the slow transfer rates > > I'm seeing. > > > > Some have wondered whether the connection > > is somehow defaulting to a USB 1.1 mode. But > > if so, I see no way to do anything about that. > > What kind of performance do you get if you try: > > dd if=/dev/X of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1000 > > On the Mandriva machine it took 231 seconds, for a bit rate of 4.5 MBps, or 36 Mbps. That's about 50% faster than the mounted transfer rate using cp. I'll check the Kubuntu machine after I finish doing something else. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071020/7c60903d/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 20:01:09 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:01:09 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Both me and a friend of mine have encountered Comcast's filtering. Since I found out that it's there, I can't help but wonder if any given spurious RST packet came from them. However, there may be a way around it, but it requires delaying action on received RST packets to see if normal packets follow, which would require modification of the TCP stack of the host and any NAT in between. I think I'm going to send Levin and Stabenow a couple more letters regarding Net Neutrality. On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > Those of you with Comcast might be interested in this: > > http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/10/19/comcast/ > > For those of you that don't have Comcast, what one > company does others might follow. Comcast has been > less than forthcoming about its activities, and was dug > out by the Associated Press. > > The head of SBC, and later AT&T, mumbled a couple > of years ago that he didn't see why people should be > able to use "his" fibers to put competitive services on. > In that case phone service like Vonage. > > While companies like Comcast are trying to snow > Congress in to thinking there is no need for net neutrality > legislation, clearly there is. The alternative is to let > outfits like Comcast do for the Internet what it and > DirecTV have done for TV - just a sea of ads, with the not > so subtle hint you might want to buy some premium > services if you want to actually watch any programming. > > With the Internet we might end up paying for premium > services just to stay where we are now. Otherwise > Comcast might just want to make your life miserable. > And don't forget that it is a monopoly in many of the > areas it serves. > > -Bob > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 20:18:11 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:18:11 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I did that yesterday. Congress has been slow to act on net neutrality legislation, making me think they are in the back pocket of the industry on this issue too. Industry says legislation is unnecessary, which suggest it wouldn't hurt then either. But it's what we can do. I'd like to see the tax payers have their own backbone fibers, that can be used by private ISPs, but not controlled. Of course the tax payers have Internet2 - not to be confused with Internet 2. A high speed Internet backbone that only gov't labs and schools can use. It's been around for 8 years that I know of, and is supposedly a vehicle for researching high speed networks. That part I think is a crock, and doubt that it will ever be opened up to ordinary tax payers. Too much fun the way things are... :-( -Bob On 10/20/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Both me and a friend of mine have encountered Comcast's filtering. > Since I found out that it's there, I can't help but wonder if any > given spurious RST packet came from them. > > However, there may be a way around it, but it requires delaying action > on received RST packets to see if normal packets follow, which would > require modification of the TCP stack of the host and any NAT in > between. > > I think I'm going to send Levin and Stabenow a couple more letters > regarding Net Neutrality. On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > Those of you with Comcast might be interested in this: > > > > http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/10/19/comcast/ > > > > For those of you that don't have Comcast, what one > > company does others might follow. Comcast has been > > less than forthcoming about its activities, and was dug > > out by the Associated Press. > > > > The head of SBC, and later AT&T, mumbled a couple > > of years ago that he didn't see why people should be > > able to use "his" fibers to put competitive services on. > > In that case phone service like Vonage. > > > > While companies like Comcast are trying to snow > > Congress in to thinking there is no need for net neutrality > > legislation, clearly there is. The alternative is to let > > outfits like Comcast do for the Internet what it and > > DirecTV have done for TV - just a sea of ads, with the not > > so subtle hint you might want to buy some premium > > services if you want to actually watch any programming. > > > > With the Internet we might end up paying for premium > > services just to stay where we are now. Otherwise > > Comcast might just want to make your life miserable. > > And don't forget that it is a monopoly in many of the > > areas it serves. > > > > -Bob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071020/73228fcc/attachment.htm From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 19:09:53 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:09:53 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm also a Comcast customer than has been effected. I would like to write a letter to Levin and Stabenow but write was never my best subject. Does any have a boiler plate type letter I would use? On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > I did that yesterday. Congress has been > slow to act on net neutrality legislation, > making me think they are in the back > pocket of the industry on this issue too. > Industry says legislation is unnecessary, > which suggest it wouldn't hurt then either. > > But it's what we can do. I'd like to see the > tax payers have their own backbone fibers, > that can be used by private ISPs, but not > controlled. > > Of course the tax payers have Internet2 - not > to be confused with Internet 2. A high speed > Internet backbone that only gov't labs and > schools can use. It's been around for 8 years > that I know of, and is supposedly a vehicle > for researching high speed networks. That part > I think is a crock, and doubt that it will ever be > opened up to ordinary tax payers. Too much > fun the way things are... :-( > > -Bob > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Both me and a friend of mine have encountered Comcast's filtering. > > Since I found out that it's there, I can't help but wonder if any > > given spurious RST packet came from them. > > > > However, there may be a way around it, but it requires delaying action > > on received RST packets to see if normal packets follow, which would > > require modification of the TCP stack of the host and any NAT in > > between. > > > > I think I'm going to send Levin and Stabenow a couple more letters > > regarding Net Neutrality. > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline < bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Those of you with Comcast might be interested in this: > > > > > > http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/10/19/comcast/ > > > > > > For those of you that don't have Comcast, what one > > > company does others might follow. Comcast has been > > > less than forthcoming about its activities, and was dug > > > out by the Associated Press. > > > > > > The head of SBC, and later AT&T, mumbled a couple > > > of years ago that he didn't see why people should be > > > able to use "his" fibers to put competitive services on. > > > In that case phone service like Vonage. > > > > > > While companies like Comcast are trying to snow > > > Congress in to thinking there is no need for net neutrality > > > legislation, clearly there is. The alternative is to let > > > outfits like Comcast do for the Internet what it and > > > DirecTV have done for TV - just a sea of ads, with the not > > > so subtle hint you might want to buy some premium > > > services if you want to actually watch any programming. > > > > > > With the Internet we might end up paying for premium > > > services just to stay where we are now. Otherwise > > > Comcast might just want to make your life miserable. > > > And don't forget that it is a monopoly in many of the > > > areas it serves. > > > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From darth_linux at ameritech.net Sun Oct 21 19:15:37 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:15:37 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] pw-suspend Message-ID: <200710211915.37194.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Hello all, My laptop will only suspend to a blank screen and network off. After that it just sits there... it does not suspend. Nothing will wake it up and I am forced to hard shutdown before it will come up. This is F6, but I've had this behavior on F7 as well. Any suggestions on what I can look for as evidence of why it won't work correctly? thanks, eah From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 19:28:58 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:28:58 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know that I'd call it boiler plate, but you're welcome tweak the letter I sent if that's helpful. Keeping in mind that at most you'll get a form letter back from your "representatives," and it might not even pertain to the issue you wrote about, it's probably more important to just send something than to worry too much about the details. Some aid probably just puts the e-mails in to piles and sees which is higher anyway. i.e., your "representative" probably never reads them. You might also mention support for S.156, which keeps states from taxing the Internet for a while longer. I'd say the goal here is to ensure that the Internet doesn't become the ad soaked useless medium that TV has. And what Comcast is doing might not actually be illegal. The problem is that it is effectively a monopoly in many areas. It's well known that it and other large ISPs treat people in different geographic areas differently depending on how much competition they figure exists. This too they are not very forthcoming about. -Bob ++++++++++++++++++ Cable provider Comcast is already clearly violating what is called net neutrality - the practice of treating all Internet traffic equally. While it of course denies this, the Associated Press has verified through tests that in fact Comcast is prioritizing Internet traffic. The Internet, despite some problems, has proven to be overall a valuable enabling technology, and positively affects many segments of US business, science, and technology, in addition to serving as a vast library for millions. It would be unconscionable to let Comcast and others to now do to the Internet what has been done to radio, cable, and satellite TV. Now so laden with advertising that each 30 minutes of programming can contain 12 to 15 minutes of advertising, rendering each medium at the least mind numbing, and and the worst useless. It was the intent of the net neutrality legislation to ensure that this does not happen. By controlling traffic based on content and source, Internet companies will attempt to force users to upgrade to premium services, much like cable and satellite TV, in order to view any content without also accepting incessant advertising. People have recognized for years now that companies like AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, and others should not be allowed to own the backbone fibers that route much of the Internet traffic in the US. Their fears have proven to be justified. I'd ask that the welfare of the little people in the US be taken in to consideration on this issue, and that Congress make more permanent arrangements to ensure net neutrality. The Internet is simply too valuable to let happen to it what Comcast apparently has in mind. The Internet should be equally available to all Americans, and free of additional fees just to get back to what they currently have for the most part. ++++++++++++++++++ On 10/21/07, Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > > I'm also a Comcast customer than has been effected. I would like to > write a letter to Levin and Stabenow but write was never my best > subject. Does any have a boiler plate type letter I would use? > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > I did that yesterday. Congress has been > > slow to act on net neutrality legislation, > > making me think they are in the back > > pocket of the industry on this issue too. > > Industry says legislation is unnecessary, > > which suggest it wouldn't hurt then either. > > > > But it's what we can do. I'd like to see the > > tax payers have their own backbone fibers, > > that can be used by private ISPs, but not > > controlled. > > > > Of course the tax payers have Internet2 - not > > to be confused with Internet 2. A high speed > > Internet backbone that only gov't labs and > > schools can use. It's been around for 8 years > > that I know of, and is supposedly a vehicle > > for researching high speed networks. That part > > I think is a crock, and doubt that it will ever be > > opened up to ordinary tax payers. Too much > > fun the way things are... :-( > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > Both me and a friend of mine have encountered Comcast's filtering. > > > Since I found out that it's there, I can't help but wonder if any > > > given spurious RST packet came from them. > > > > > > However, there may be a way around it, but it requires delaying action > > > on received RST packets to see if normal packets follow, which would > > > require modification of the TCP stack of the host and any NAT in > > > between. > > > > > > I think I'm going to send Levin and Stabenow a couple more letters > > > regarding Net Neutrality. > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline < bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Those of you with Comcast might be interested in this: > > > > > > > > http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/10/19/comcast/ > > > > > > > > For those of you that don't have Comcast, what one > > > > company does others might follow. Comcast has been > > > > less than forthcoming about its activities, and was dug > > > > out by the Associated Press. > > > > > > > > The head of SBC, and later AT&T, mumbled a couple > > > > of years ago that he didn't see why people should be > > > > able to use "his" fibers to put competitive services on. > > > > In that case phone service like Vonage. > > > > > > > > While companies like Comcast are trying to snow > > > > Congress in to thinking there is no need for net neutrality > > > > legislation, clearly there is. The alternative is to let > > > > outfits like Comcast do for the Internet what it and > > > > DirecTV have done for TV - just a sea of ads, with the not > > > > so subtle hint you might want to buy some premium > > > > services if you want to actually watch any programming. > > > > > > > > With the Internet we might end up paying for premium > > > > services just to stay where we are now. Otherwise > > > > Comcast might just want to make your life miserable. > > > > And don't forget that it is a monopoly in many of the > > > > areas it serves. > > > > > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > :wq > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071021/73bea8c3/attachment-0001.htm From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 20:20:40 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:20:40 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks that exactly what I was looking for. On 10/21/07, Bob Kline wrote: > I don't know that I'd call it boiler plate, > but you're welcome tweak the letter I > sent if that's helpful. Keeping in mind > that at most you'll get a form letter > back from your "representatives," and > it might not even pertain to the issue > you wrote about, it's probably more > important to just send something than > to worry too much about the details. > Some aid probably just puts the e-mails > in to piles and sees which is higher > anyway. i.e., your "representative" > probably never reads them. > > You might also mention support for S.156, > which keeps states from taxing the Internet > for a while longer. > > I'd say the goal here is to ensure that the > Internet doesn't become the ad soaked > useless medium that TV has. > > And what Comcast is doing might not > actually be illegal. The problem is that it > is effectively a monopoly in many areas. > It's well known that it and other large ISPs > treat people in different geographic areas > differently depending on how much > competition they figure exists. This too > they are not very forthcoming about. > > -Bob > > ++++++++++++++++++ > Cable provider Comcast is already > clearly violating what is called net > neutrality - the practice of treating > all Internet traffic equally. While it > of course denies this, the Associated > Press has verified through tests that > in fact Comcast is prioritizing Internet > traffic. > > The Internet, despite some problems, > has proven to be overall a valuable > enabling technology, and positively > affects many segments of US business, > science, and technology, in addition to > serving as a vast library for millions. > It would be unconscionable to let Comcast > and others to now do to the Internet what > has been done to radio, cable, and satellite > TV. Now so laden with advertising that > each 30 minutes of programming can > contain 12 to 15 minutes of advertising, > rendering each medium at the least mind > numbing, and and the worst useless. > > It was the intent of the net neutrality > legislation to ensure that this does not > happen. By controlling traffic based on > content and source, Internet companies > will attempt to force users to upgrade to > premium services, much like cable and > satellite TV, in order to view any content > without also accepting incessant advertising. > > People have recognized for years now that > companies like AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, > and others should not be allowed to own > the backbone fibers that route much of the > Internet traffic in the US. Their fears have > proven to be justified. > > I'd ask that the welfare of the little people > in the US be taken in to consideration on > this issue, and that Congress make more > permanent arrangements to ensure net > neutrality. The Internet is simply too > valuable to let happen to it what Comcast > apparently has in mind. The Internet should > be equally available to all Americans, and > free of additional fees just to get back to > what they currently have for the most part. > > > ++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > On 10/21/07, Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > > I'm also a Comcast customer than has been effected. I would like to > > write a letter to Levin and Stabenow but write was never my best > > subject. Does any have a boiler plate type letter I would use? > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline < bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote: > > > I did that yesterday. Congress has been > > > slow to act on net neutrality legislation, > > > making me think they are in the back > > > pocket of the industry on this issue too. > > > Industry says legislation is unnecessary, > > > which suggest it wouldn't hurt then either. > > > > > > But it's what we can do. I'd like to see the > > > tax payers have their own backbone fibers, > > > that can be used by private ISPs, but not > > > controlled. > > > > > > Of course the tax payers have Internet2 - not > > > to be confused with Internet 2. A high speed > > > Internet backbone that only gov't labs and > > > schools can use. It's been around for 8 years > > > that I know of, and is supposedly a vehicle > > > for researching high speed networks. That part > > > I think is a crock, and doubt that it will ever be > > > opened up to ordinary tax payers. Too much > > > fun the way things are... :-( > > > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Both me and a friend of mine have encountered Comcast's filtering. > > > > Since I found out that it's there, I can't help but wonder if any > > > > given spurious RST packet came from them. > > > > > > > > However, there may be a way around it, but it requires delaying action > > > > on received RST packets to see if normal packets follow, which would > > > > require modification of the TCP stack of the host and any NAT in > > > > between. > > > > > > > > I think I'm going to send Levin and Stabenow a couple more letters > > > > regarding Net Neutrality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline < bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Those of you with Comcast might be interested in this: > > > > > > > > > > http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/10/19/comcast/ > > > > > > > > > > For those of you that don't have Comcast, what one > > > > > company does others might follow. Comcast has been > > > > > less than forthcoming about its activities, and was dug > > > > > out by the Associated Press. > > > > > > > > > > The head of SBC, and later AT&T, mumbled a couple > > > > > of years ago that he didn't see why people should be > > > > > able to use "his" fibers to put competitive services on. > > > > > In that case phone service like Vonage. > > > > > > > > > > While companies like Comcast are trying to snow > > > > > Congress in to thinking there is no need for net neutrality > > > > > legislation, clearly there is. The alternative is to let > > > > > outfits like Comcast do for the Internet what it and > > > > > DirecTV have done for TV - just a sea of ads, with the not > > > > > so subtle hint you might want to buy some premium > > > > > services if you want to actually watch any programming. > > > > > > > > > > With the Internet we might end up paying for premium > > > > > services just to stay where we are now. Otherwise > > > > > Comcast might just want to make your life miserable. > > > > > And don't forget that it is a monopoly in many of the > > > > > areas it serves. > > > > > > > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > :wq > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Oct 21 20:28:55 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:28:55 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 07:28:58PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote: [snip] > Some aid probably just puts the e-mails > in to piles and sees which is higher > anyway. i.e., your "representative" > probably never reads them. If our founding fathers were alive today, they would die of heart attacks. [snip] > And what Comcast is doing might not > actually be illegal. The problem is that it > is effectively a monopoly in many areas. > It's well known that it and other large ISPs > treat people in different geographic areas > differently depending on how much > competition they figure exists. This too > they are not very forthcoming about. My understanding of the issue is that ISP's have 'common carrier' status. The traditional telcos have common carrier status. It is this legal designation that prevents, say, Ameritech, from being responsible for illegal activities taking place on its copper. In other words, Ameritech is simply the vehicle for information exchange. If someone uses Ameritech's services to plot terrorist activities Ameritech cannot be held responsible. This also implies that Ameritech does not have to monitor its lines to screen for illegal activities. Internet Service Providers have this same status. If I, via the Internet via Comcast's services, plot terrorist activities, Comcast cannot be help responsible for "allowing" me to use their services for illegal activities. As such, they do not have to monitor my online activities. Here is where my understanding may be skewed falsely. It is also my understanding that if a common carrier monitors or otherwise limits what its customers can do with its services, it loses common carrier status. For example, say you have a favorite telephone order company. Say you call the toll free number and order everything via the telephone via Ameritech's services. Also say Ameritech comes out with a competing telephone order service. In order to entice you to use its own service Ameritech reduces the quality of your telephone conversations with the customer service reps at your favorite company or even causes your calls to this company to disconnect. Based on my understanding this company would lose common carrier status and would then be liable for illegal activities on its network. Thus, it *is* illegal for Comcast to want to limit how I use my internet connection. Then again, I may be all wet. :-) [snip, snip, and more snip] -- john-thomas ------ Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C Clarke, science fiction writer (1917- ) From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 20:45:45 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:45:45 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> Message-ID: On 10/21/07, john-thomas richards wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 07:28:58PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote: > Based on my > understanding this company would lose common carrier status and would then > be > liable for illegal activities on its network. Thus, it *is* illegal for > Comcast to want to limit how I use my internet connection. > > Then again, I may be all wet. :-) > > [snip, snip, and more snip] > -- > john-thomas > ------ It's pretty clear that Comcast is not very proud of what it's doing. Now that it has been definitively found out, maybe concerned customers will look in to the legal status of its actions. I understand that customers cannot run their Internet connects full bore, 24/7/365, but Comcast needs to be more upfront about its policies - good, bad, or in between. It annoys many that the telcos and cable companies assure Congress that net neutrality legislation is not needed, only to show that is a cynical attempt to help ensure that Congress does nothing. Now to see what Congress does, and whether it comes down on our side or the Industry's. I think I know, but hope otherwise. I'd like to see the gov't have its own high speed backbone for for Internet traffic, and then just contract companies to run it. This has been done with other gov't communications system. FTS 2000, a private gov't phone system. And no doubt Internet2, which none of us can use unless we work at a school or lab. But we can pay for it.... The world is tiered in all kinds of different ways. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071021/8cc4550f/attachment-0001.htm From flanderb at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 09:42:25 2007 From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:42:25 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux Message-ID: Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. -- Share and Enjoy Ben From adderd at kkmfg.com Mon Oct 22 10:03:43 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:03:43 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471CADBF.2030700@kkmfg.com> Benjamin Flanders wrote: > Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been > running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that > seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. > > I've been looking into this as well as I recently got a core2 duo machine. However, from what I'm seeing there just isn't that much of a reason to go 64 bit. It's faster in some apps but slower in others, it's still somewhat problematic, etc. What I've seen is that it seems better to instead build a 32bit linux kernel with support for advanced features of the newer processors. From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 11:21:39 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:21:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/22/07, Benjamin Flanders wrote: > > Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been > running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that > seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. > > -- > Share and Enjoy > Ben I've been running 64-bit Kubuntu on a laptop with a 64-bit Athlon processor. I never put up a 32-bit so all I can say is that everything works. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071022/d7db5f98/attachment.htm From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon Oct 22 12:02:39 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:02:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1193068959.7712.34.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 09:42 -0400, Benjamin Flanders wrote: > Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been > running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that > seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. Yep, very good. I am running Debian SID for AMD64 (x86_64, EMT64...etc) on my Lenovo T61 Core2Duo 2.2GHz with 4GB of memory. I have Java, (32-bit)Flash, other stuff working just fine in the 64-bit browsers. Pretty much I have zero complaints, barring "HD Audio" problems. Here is a recent post (snippet) I made recently on the thinkpad forums: I use Debian SID on my T61 (all Intel Chipsets). The only thing I have issue with right now is the Audio the "HDA" sound mutes itself every 5 seconds. Its being worked on. There is improvement. The only thing outside the Kernel from Debian I had to add was the IWL driver for the Wireless. This is a pain as they don't use the standard out of kernel tree, module compilation methods. Which forces you to play games to get it working. But, once you do its a dream. I have everything following working (once I added my user to the apropos groups that is). Intel 3D is great, it works very well, though its NOT nVidia's binary blob performance, it close enough for all games I play. Suspend/Resume works fantasmally well (remember group membership). Hibernate ROCKS. Just make sure you make your swap partition as large (or a bit larger) as your memory, as suspend writes memory state to the swap partition. Also remember group membership for suspend/hibernate while being logged in. Fingerprint reader... sorry don't have it, I excluded it. I've been forced to use Fingerprint stuff to get into work for years... it fails about 10% of the time. But reports are it works... thinkwiki is great for this stuff. IWL wireless, already explained. As long as you know how to build stuff without the automagic parts... it works great. The project is working on its problems with this. Once it works, NetworkManager does its awesomeness thing... leave your WiFi in roaming mode and be able to join nearly any network. I've been able to do any public network and ones with ESSID keys (as long as you know one of the keys) Volume does work... except the sound chipset, sets itself to mute every 5 seconds. Its part of the "if it not positively set, shut it down" Vista-ization of hardware, you know the "authorized media stream" kind of thing (or so I've talked to the Intel hardware programming guys) Brightness works just FINE. I can scale it to max or min, or anywhere in between. Infra-red, it receives just fine, but I haven't had occasion to use it to send... since it works on receiving, it is probably only a matter of config and it sends. Dual Display, well my Intel Chipset supports Dual Display so well that I have to forcibly turn off the TV resolution. The External 15-pin works just fine. Even different resolutions... though its not xinerama. The media readers work fine, as expected. Firewire works awesome. ALL USB ports report as USB2.0 and perform that way. Bluetooth, works well. Except using bluetooth audio, the HDA audio thing gets in the way right at the minute. Blueztools pairs up and auto-connects and all that, easily. Trackpad does scrolling along the right side, trackpoint works perfectly with no drift. The third (middle) button works as I'd expect it to. Hard Drive Active Protection works and is active, plus you can run a GLX program showing you the sensor output and hard-drive "parking". DL DVD-RAM does wonders for everything in sight. Dual Layer DVD-+R, CD-+R(W). It does take the juice so, you'll notice severely reduce battery time when burning on battery. Illumination light can be controlled in numerous ways. No I haven't a Dock. Don't need it, in my opinion. So, I guess, except for the HD Audio thing, its a go. I used info from here, and many other places. I started here: http://tuxmobil.org/ibm.html (scroll down to the T60/T61 stuff). There is usually anything you are having problems with in those links. Now, understand, I used tips from other distributions, for my Debian install, but changed for Debian's way and its hierarchy. This means, many things don't apply exactly, but the general info and places to look have Debian counter parts. None of those (at the time I last looked late last month, September), had everything working. But betwixt them all, I got all but the HD Audio working. -- Greg Folkert -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071022/c6d83909/attachment-0001.pgp From justin.denick at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 12:05:34 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:05:34 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <81e08d920710220905s13d5ebc8wbdae35ddfbecb36e@mail.gmail.com> On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > [snipped] > > > > > > > How about: > > > > > > > > > > mount -t ext3 -o async /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would seem to make sense, but the > > > > man page for mount suggests that the > > > > default is async. > > > > > > > > One can use > > > > > > > > mount -t ext3 -o defaults /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > > > but its unclear why this is useful. I'm > > > > assuming that one doesn't need it, but > > > > will try it just to be sure. > > > > > > > > More later. > > > > [snipped] > > > > > > > > The async option is apparently the default, > > > and has no affect on the slow transfer rates > > > I'm seeing. > > > > > > Some have wondered whether the connection > > > is somehow defaulting to a USB 1.1 mode. But > > > if so, I see no way to do anything about that. > > > > What kind of performance do you get if you try: > > > > dd if=/dev/X of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1000 > > > > > > > On the Mandriva machine it took 231 seconds, > for a bit rate of 4.5 MBps, or 36 Mbps. That's > about 50% faster than the mounted transfer > rate using cp. > > I'll check the Kubuntu machine after I finish doing > something else. > > -Bob > Be sure to see what the DMA specs are too. hdparm -cuda /devx As you can see it makes a big differnece justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 166 MB in 3.02 seconds = 54.92 MB/sec justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -d0 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting using_dma to 0 (off) using_dma = 0 (off) justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 18 MB in 3.26 seconds = 5.53 MB/sec justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/hda /dev/hda: setting using_dma to 1 (on) using_dma = 1 (on) justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing buffered disk reads: 166 MB in 3.02 seconds = 54.88 MB/sec justin at da-boxx ~ $ It's a kernel option CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071022/ff8a3b7a/attachment.htm From adderd at kkmfg.com Mon Oct 22 13:21:22 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:21:22 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: <1193068959.7712.34.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1193068959.7712.34.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <471CDC12.7030402@kkmfg.com> Greg Folkert wrote: > On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 09:42 -0400, Benjamin Flanders wrote: > >> Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been >> running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that >> seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. >> > > Yep, very good. I am running Debian SID for AMD64 (x86_64, EMT64...etc) > on my Lenovo T61 Core2Duo 2.2GHz with 4GB of memory. I have Java, > (32-bit)Flash, other stuff working just fine in the 64-bit browsers. > Pretty much I have zero complaints, barring "HD Audio" problems. > > > But, in reference to my post on the subject: Was there any technical reason you went 64 bit or did you do that just because you could or you were curious in a geeky sort of way? I'm running 32bit linux on my core2 duo Toshiba x205 and everything except the fingerprint reader seems to work. I wanted to use 64 bit but I just didn't see any justification. From driveray at ameritech.net Mon Oct 22 14:16:50 2007 From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:16:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: <471CADBF.2030700@kkmfg.com> References: <471CADBF.2030700@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <471CE912.1010407@ameritech.net> Collin Kidder wrote: > Benjamin Flanders wrote: >> Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been >> running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that >> seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. >> >> > I've been looking into this as well as I recently got a core2 duo > machine. However, from what I'm seeing there just isn't that much of a > reason to go 64 bit. It's faster in some apps but slower in others, it's > still somewhat problematic, etc. What I've seen is that it seems better > to instead build a 32bit linux kernel with support for advanced features > of the newer processors. I pretty much "me too" this assessment. In August I finally built myself a new Core2 Dual desktop machine, demoting my 1.1 GHz PIII the rank of backup computer. At first I ran the 32 bit version of SuSE 10.2. I was very pleased. Of course it was much faster, and quicker than the machine it had replaced. After a couple of weeks I got brave and installed the 64 bit version on a spare partition. Everything works just like on the 32 bit version. But I can't say it was really worth the trouble. I've used it for a month and a half now, and it doesn't really seem quite as quick to open new windows, etc, as I remember the 32 bit. But that assessment could also be colored by the newness of the machine at first. The machine still can dual boot, but I haven't bothered in several weeks. So far I've stayed with the 64 bit mostly "because it's there". I'm thinking of doing some time trials between the two at. Say mpg encoding, which is the kind of thing at which the 64 bit is supposed to shine. But for my own day to day use the difference hasn't really been worth the time spent worrying about it. My $0.02 Raymond McLaughlin From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 14:43:53 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:43:53 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: <471CE912.1010407@ameritech.net> References: <471CADBF.2030700@kkmfg.com> <471CE912.1010407@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On 10/22/07, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > > Collin Kidder wrote: > > The machine still can dual boot, but I haven't bothered in several > weeks. So far I've stayed with the 64 bit mostly "because it's there". > > I'm thinking of doing some time trials between the two at. Say mpg > encoding, which is the kind of thing at which the 64 bit is supposed to > shine. But for my own day to day use the difference hasn't really been > worth the time spent worrying about it. > > > Just for discussion's sake, where would one expect a 64-bit CPU to shine on a PC other than the place you mention, and maybe games. In a more expensive machine, like a server, one could imagine taking advantage of wider buses on a 64-bit CPU, which would affect performance significantly. But other than bus bandwidth, and the computations you mention, and use in games, with appropriate performance video cards, where else would one expect the 64-bit architecture to matter on a typical desktop? I'd guess hardware capable of taking advantage of buses that are 64-bits wide throughout the machine is going to be pricey. As in a server. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071022/d52d35eb/attachment.htm From adderd at kkmfg.com Mon Oct 22 15:39:08 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:39:08 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: References: <471CADBF.2030700@kkmfg.com> <471CE912.1010407@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <471CFC5C.2050300@kkmfg.com> > Just for discussion's sake, where would > one expect a 64-bit CPU to shine on a > PC other than the place you mention, and > maybe games. In a more expensive > machine, like a server, one could imagine > taking advantage of wider buses on a > 64-bit CPU, which would affect performance > significantly. But other than bus bandwidth, > and the computations you mention, and > use in games, with appropriate performance > video cards, where else would one expect > the 64-bit architecture to matter on a typical > desktop? I'd guess hardware capable of > taking advantage of buses that are 64-bits > wide throughout the machine is going to be > pricey. As in a server. > > -Bob Actually... The system bus on everything from pentium on up is 64 bit. The big reasons to go true 64 bit processor mode are to get a lot more ram addressing, more registers, and the potential speedup of having larger native register sizes. But the machine itself always runs in 64 bit wide buses. Heck, video cards have 128 or 256 bit wide buses. From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon Oct 22 15:53:37 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:53:37 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: <471CDC12.7030402@kkmfg.com> References: <1193068959.7712.34.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <471CDC12.7030402@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <1193082817.7712.57.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 13:21 -0400, Collin Kidder wrote: > Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 09:42 -0400, Benjamin Flanders wrote: > > > >> Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been > >> running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that > >> seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. > >> > > > > Yep, very good. I am running Debian SID for AMD64 (x86_64, EMT64...etc) > > on my Lenovo T61 Core2Duo 2.2GHz with 4GB of memory. I have Java, > > (32-bit)Flash, other stuff working just fine in the 64-bit browsers. > > Pretty much I have zero complaints, barring "HD Audio" problems. > > > > > > > > But, in reference to my post on the subject: Was there any technical > reason you went 64 bit or did you do that just because you could or you > were curious in a geeky sort of way? I'm running 32bit linux on my core2 > duo Toshiba x205 and everything except the fingerprint reader seems to > work. I wanted to use 64 bit but I just didn't see any justification. Nope not because I could. I did it as a first choice. I've been using 32-bit for years. I saw some significant improvements in the way things were going. I just installed it and had a few things go bad, mainly due to the fact it is such a new chipset... I have 4GB of RAM, as well. Everything works just fine. I have lots of sutff running sometimes, I see no degradation during these intensive times. I see no reason *NOT* to use 64-bit, its long term, the 32-bit abstraction is well defined and I feel qualified enough to say 32-bit is done and all machine I get from now on are going to be 64-bit and run 64-bit OS and 32-bit abstraction for things like Flash/Java/whatever. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071022/f808088e/attachment.pgp From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 23:25:02 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:25:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates In-Reply-To: <81e08d920710220905s13d5ebc8wbdae35ddfbecb36e@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920710220905s13d5ebc8wbdae35ddfbecb36e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/22/07, Justin Denick wrote: > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > > On 10/20/07, Bob Kline < bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 10/20/07, Michael Mol < mikemol at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > [snipped] > > > > > > > > > How about: > > > > > > > > > > > > mount -t ext3 -o async /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would seem to make sense, but the > > > > > man page for mount suggests that the > > > > > default is async. > > > > > > > > > > One can use > > > > > > > > > > mount -t ext3 -o defaults /dev/X /disk2 > > > > > > > > > > but its unclear why this is useful. I'm > > > > > assuming that one doesn't need it, but > > > > > will try it just to be sure. > > > > > > > > > > More later. > > > > > > [snipped] > > > > > > > > > > > The async option is apparently the default, > > > > and has no affect on the slow transfer rates > > > > I'm seeing. > > > > > > > > Some have wondered whether the connection > > > > is somehow defaulting to a USB 1.1 mode. But > > > > if so, I see no way to do anything about that. > > > > > > What kind of performance do you get if you try: > > > > > > dd if=/dev/X of=/dev/null bs=1M count=1000 > > > > > > > > > > > > On the Mandriva machine it took 231 seconds, > > for a bit rate of 4.5 MBps, or 36 Mbps. That's > > about 50% faster than the mounted transfer > > rate using cp. > > > > I'll check the Kubuntu machine after I finish doing > > something else. > > > > -Bob > > > > Be sure to see what the DMA specs are too. > > hdparm -cuda /devx > > As you can see it makes a big differnece > > justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > Timing buffered disk reads: 166 MB in 3.02 seconds = 54.92 MB/sec > justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -d0 /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > setting using_dma to 0 (off) > using_dma = 0 (off) > justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > Timing buffered disk reads: 18 MB in 3.26 seconds = 5.53 MB/sec > justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > setting using_dma to 1 (on) > using_dma = 1 (on) > justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda > > /dev/hda: > Timing buffered disk reads: 166 MB in 3.02 seconds = 54.88 MB/sec > justin at da-boxx ~ $ > > It's a kernel option > CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y Thanks. I'll check this out. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071022/b0676888/attachment-0001.htm From cdubois at n-vint.com Tue Oct 23 16:09:39 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:09:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6B5F9D2@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program http://dw.com.com/rubicsclk?ver=2&ts=2007.10.23.13.06.23&edId=3&onId=11395&ptId=2300&sId=3&appId=8&offId=1881&unitId=26&poolId=1&f1=11386&f2=%2d0&f3=%2d0&alg=1&&opt=1&linkPos=5&destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com%2F2300-1016_3-6209419.html%3Ftag%3Dne.gall.rbcs Casey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071023/47505fcb/attachment.htm From ndrier at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 16:23:59 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan Drier) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:23:59 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6B5F9D2@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6B5F9D2@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0710231323r442a67f6ic52194058f198dab@mail.gmail.com> On 10/23/07, Casey DuBois wrote: > > > > Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program > > > > > http://dw.com.com/rubicsclk?ver=2&ts=2007.10.23.13.06.23&edId=3&onId=11395&ptId=2300&sId=3&appId=8&offId=1881&unitId=26&poolId=1&f1=11386&f2=%2d0&f3=%2d0&alg=1&&opt=1&linkPos=5&destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com%2F2300-1016_3-6209419.html%3Ftag%3Dne.gall.rbcs > > > > > > Casey > I think XP would be considered more of a Upgrade at that point! Nate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071023/07d394c6/attachment.htm From kevinin72 at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 16:40:55 2007 From: kevinin72 at gmail.com (Kevin Polmanteer) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:40:55 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program In-Reply-To: <7f08d14b0710231323r442a67f6ic52194058f198dab@mail.gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6B5F9D2@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <7f08d14b0710231323r442a67f6ic52194058f198dab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <687dab720710231340p24135c65x3eb81f55c67ab027@mail.gmail.com> Yes there is really no point in running Vista when XP can just do it better right now. On 10/23/07, Nathan Drier wrote: > > On 10/23/07, Casey DuBois wrote: > > > > > > Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program > > > > > > > > http://dw.com.com/rubicsclk?ver=2&ts=2007.10.23.13.06.23&edId=3&onId=11395&ptId=2300&sId=3&appId=8&offId=1881&unitId=26&poolId=1&f1=11386&f2=%2d0&f3=%2d0&alg=1&&opt=1&linkPos=5&destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com%2F2300-1016_3-6209419.html%3Ftag%3Dne.gall.rbcs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Casey > > > > > > I think XP would be considered more of a Upgrade at that point! > Nate > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071023/1f34541e/attachment-0001.htm From greg at gregfolkert.net Tue Oct 23 21:22:02 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:22:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6B5F9D2@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6B5F9D2@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <1193188922.24730.9.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 16:09 -0400, Casey DuBois wrote: > > > Lenovo's XP 'downgrade' program > > > > http://dw.com.com/rubicsclk?ver=2&ts=2007.10.23.13.06.23&edId=3&onId=11395&ptId=2300&sId=3&appId=8&offId=1881&unitId=26&poolId=1&f1=11386&f2=%2d0&f3=%2d0&alg=1&&opt=1&linkPos=5&destUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com%2F2300-1016_3-6209419.html%3Ftag%3Dne.gall.rbcs > Ummm, my New Lenovo T61, I got a 8 weeks ago, came with XP. I specifically ordered it with it. I am now running Debian Sid, mostly. I have OSX Tiger ready to install. Triple booting, (actually QUAD). The ThinkVantage, Windows XP, Debian SID and (soon) OSX. Lenovo is really a nice platform. Its flexible. Doable and willing to take anything you've got to throw at it. Just for the Record, Lenovo has long been recommending Windows XP. Vista just hasn't sat right with them. And to be really honest, its really why I bought it and almost bought a Dell, but they weren't offering the machine I wanted with XP. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071023/72cf1b4b/attachment.pgp From radiodurans at yahoo.com Wed Oct 24 00:24:34 2007 From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GRLUG] My review of Ubuntu 7.10: Gooey Gumdrop In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <204816.30845.qm@web80409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> i went to debian testing after playing around with tribe5 a few weeks ago. . . compiz is still pretty unstable and i dont think it should be packaged in any stable distribution. ubuntu seems to be getting more bloated the further it develops away from its debian origins. the reason i ran it in the beginning was because it was basically debian with better hardware support and documentation. im somewhat on the fence over compiz even if it were more stable ... it is nice to show others how wasting system resources looks much more cool when compared to microsoft alternatives . . . but any minutely practical person can see that using more cpu cycles just so your windows shake like jello wont do increase your productivity . . . and it tends to drains battery life at a faster rate. a basic windows manager works best for me. --- Michael Mol wrote: > Well, after spending a day arguing with it and > researching, I've > determined a couple things. > > First, Compiz does *not* appear to be enabled by > default on *upgraded* > systems. In fact, I've noticed aggressive appears > to be due to the > i810 X11 driver being upgraded. Setting special > effects to "normal" > (enabling Compiz) instead of the upgrade-default of > "none" improved > performance somewhat, mainly by not forcing re-draws > of windows while > I was resizing them. > > Setting special effects to "Extra" reveals some > broken behavior, > though. Most folks who use GUIs should be familiar > with snap effects, > where a window will snuggle cozily against screen > edges or other > surfaces. With special effects set to "Extra", the > snap range is way > too high; Windows within fifty pixels or so of the > screen size snap to > an edge, and can't be pulled away. Combined with > the gooey gumdrop > appearance one gets when one drags the title bar > around, one gets the > distinct feeling one's in a tug-of-war. > > In addition, the upgraded i810 driver causes lag > issues with > Stepmania, making the game absolutely unplayable on > my system. Which > royally sucks, because that's exactly what I'd > intended to do all > weekend. It's likely that the i810 driver has been > optimized for > newer graphics chipsets, which means my best course > of action would be > to upgrade my video card, which is unfortunate, as I > don't have > anything better than a PCI slot. Plus, I can't spare > $60 right now for > even a PCI video card. > > Finally, there weren't any "wow" features or fixes > for me in 7.10. In > Edgy, they fixed some wireless weirdness that was > giving me a hassle. > The biggest problem I had had with Ubuntu up to this > point was a high > latency between volume-key presses and changes in > system volume. (I > think it's starting an app to handle the key > presses.) So 7.10 is, > for me, an overall regression. > > I hereby christen Ubuntu 7.10 as "Gooey Gumdrop", > after the weird > special effects behavior, and give it a rating of > two (out of five) > stars. > > Mike > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 00:53:45 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:53:45 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] My review of Ubuntu 7.10: Gooey Gumdrop In-Reply-To: <204816.30845.qm@web80409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <204816.30845.qm@web80409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 10/24/07, John Harig wrote: > i went to debian testing after playing around with > tribe5 a few weeks ago. . . compiz is still pretty > unstable and i dont think it should be packaged in any > stable distribution. ubuntu seems to be getting more > bloated the further it develops away from its debian > origins. the reason i ran it in the beginning was > because it was basically debian with better hardware > support and documentation. My reasons were similar. I'd grown tired of not being able to get the CardBus slot on my laptop to work under Debian (Non-standard addressing on that model Presario, or something like that.), and I was stunned to see it work perfectly on an Ubuntu LiveCD. So I installed Dapper on my laptop. My desktop machine (the one I'm now having trouble with, incidentally) had a problem where init would hang for 15 minutes on shutdown. Seeing as how Ubuntu had solved my problems on my laptop, I dropped the live CD in my desktop, and saw everything work perfectly, right down to the rare embedded chipsets my desktop uses. So I installed Ubuntu on my desktop. Overnight, Ubuntu solved several of my problems. Now the hardware that made it advantageous to run Ubuntu has been outgrown by that same operating system. I've considered switching distributions. I tried (and liked) Fedora back in January, but I don't really have the time to learn its ins and outs right now. I've also considered switching back to Windows. My boss would like me to expand my MFC, C++ and Visual Studio skills, and I can't say that that's a bad idea. Unfortunately, the only other OS for which all my motherboard (Well, really it's a CPU daughter card on a semi-active backplane) drivers are available is Win2K. Fortunately, when I got this system, I pulled out and set aside the hard drive, with the installation intact. Though I'm not sure Visual Studio Express 2005 will run on Win2K. > > im somewhat on the fence over compiz even if it were > more stable ... it is nice to show others how wasting > system resources looks much more cool when compared to > microsoft alternatives . . . but any minutely > practical person can see that using more cpu cycles > just so your windows shake like jello wont do increase > your productivity . . . and it tends to drains > battery life at a faster rate. a basic windows > manager works best for me. There is one advantage to running Compiz at "Normal" mode. (The gooey behavior only comes into play in "Extras" mode.) Instead of resizing your windows directly, you resize a translucent monotone box, which draws and updates much faster than, say, a resized Firefox window. Me, I only have one screen, running at 1280x1024. I leave most of my windows maximized, and alt-tab between them as needed. So I hardly even notice whether or not Compiz is enabled. (Not sure if it's enabled right now, actually.) On the other hand, not being able to play StepMania over the weekend really. pissed. me. off. (My pad cost me $200. My computer, including upgrades, probably cost me around $300. Guess which one was the greater single investment.) > > --- Michael Mol wrote: > > > Well, after spending a day arguing with it and > > researching, I've > > determined a couple things. > > > > First, Compiz does *not* appear to be enabled by > > default on *upgraded* > > systems. In fact, I've noticed aggressive appears > > to be due to the > > i810 X11 driver being upgraded. Setting special > > effects to "normal" > > (enabling Compiz) instead of the upgrade-default of > > "none" improved > > performance somewhat, mainly by not forcing re-draws > > of windows while > > I was resizing them. > > > > Setting special effects to "Extra" reveals some > > broken behavior, > > though. Most folks who use GUIs should be familiar > > with snap effects, > > where a window will snuggle cozily against screen > > edges or other > > surfaces. With special effects set to "Extra", the > > snap range is way > > too high; Windows within fifty pixels or so of the > > screen size snap to > > an edge, and can't be pulled away. Combined with > > the gooey gumdrop > > appearance one gets when one drags the title bar > > around, one gets the > > distinct feeling one's in a tug-of-war. > > > > In addition, the upgraded i810 driver causes lag > > issues with > > Stepmania, making the game absolutely unplayable on > > my system. Which > > royally sucks, because that's exactly what I'd > > intended to do all > > weekend. It's likely that the i810 driver has been > > optimized for > > newer graphics chipsets, which means my best course > > of action would be > > to upgrade my video card, which is unfortunate, as I > > don't have > > anything better than a PCI slot. Plus, I can't spare > > $60 right now for > > even a PCI video card. > > > > Finally, there weren't any "wow" features or fixes > > for me in 7.10. In > > Edgy, they fixed some wireless weirdness that was > > giving me a hassle. > > The biggest problem I had had with Ubuntu up to this > > point was a high > > latency between volume-key presses and changes in > > system volume. (I > > think it's starting an app to handle the key > > presses.) So 7.10 is, > > for me, an overall regression. > > > > I hereby christen Ubuntu 7.10 as "Gooey Gumdrop", > > after the weird > > special effects behavior, and give it a rating of > > two (out of five) > > stars. > > > > Mike > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From mzuverink at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 02:36:10 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:36:10 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] My review of Ubuntu 7.10: Gooey Gumdrop In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <471EE7DA.7050903@gmail.com> Michael Mol wrote: > Well, after spending a day arguing with it and researching, I've > determined a couple things. > > First, Compiz does *not* appear to be enabled by default on *upgraded* > systems. In fact, I've noticed aggressive appears to be due to the > i810 X11 driver being upgraded. Setting special effects to "normal" > (enabling Compiz) instead of the upgrade-default of "none" improved > performance somewhat, mainly by not forcing re-draws of windows while > I was resizing them. > > Setting special effects to "Extra" reveals some broken behavior, > though. Most folks who use GUIs should be familiar with snap effects, > where a window will snuggle cozily against screen edges or other > surfaces. With special effects set to "Extra", the snap range is way > too high; Windows within fifty pixels or so of the screen size snap to > an edge, and can't be pulled away. Combined with the gooey gumdrop > appearance one gets when one drags the title bar around, one gets the > distinct feeling one's in a tug-of-war. > > In addition, the upgraded i810 driver causes lag issues with > Stepmania, making the game absolutely unplayable on my system. Which > royally sucks, because that's exactly what I'd intended to do all > weekend. It's likely that the i810 driver has been optimized for > newer graphics chipsets, which means my best course of action would be > to upgrade my video card, which is unfortunate, as I don't have > anything better than a PCI slot. Plus, I can't spare $60 right now for > even a PCI video card. > > Finally, there weren't any "wow" features or fixes for me in 7.10. In > Edgy, they fixed some wireless weirdness that was giving me a hassle. > The biggest problem I had had with Ubuntu up to this point was a high > latency between volume-key presses and changes in system volume. (I > think it's starting an app to handle the key presses.) So 7.10 is, > for me, an overall regression. > > I hereby christen Ubuntu 7.10 as "Gooey Gumdrop", after the weird > special effects behavior, and give it a rating of two (out of five) > stars. > > Mike > Personally, I find that Compiz-fusion and any other compositing manager to be a huge waste. I cannot stand the fact that some of the major distro's are enabling it by default, or even installing it at all. I have used it to show it off to Vista using friends, but then quickly disable it. I find it funny that Vista will not allow me to enable Aero on my laptop, but yet Compiz-fusion and Beryl work just fine Last weekend I decided todo a fresh install of the RC for Gutsy, and while I was at it I reinstalled my server box, this time with Debian Testing. Just for Giggles I installed Gnome on that box and have found myself using that more than my machine with the shiny new Ubuntu on it. My overall impression is that indeed Ubuntu is becoming bloat ware. Like someone else in this thread I too was impressed with how Ubuntu correctly identified my hardware on my laptop. That was back in Warty, I've been w/ Ubuntu since, but am starting to look for another distro to replace it on my laptop. I want to stay with a Debian based system whereas I am not a big fan of .rpms, I really like my "super cow powers". I think that the name Gutsy is a good one for it though, gutsy that they even put it out with so many bugs still outstanding. I will spend my weekend shopping for a new distro. The big problem I have is that I cannot handle downgrading to earlier versions of WM's. I find Gnome 2.20 to be beautiful compared to even the last release. Battery usage on Gutsy is even worse than on Feisty, despite new kernel power saving options, which is very disappointing. I have also found that Ubuntu's getting a tad slow with bug fixes. Several of the bugs which made it into the current official build have been reported way back in herd stage and have even been marked as critical, yet remain unfixed. -- Marc Zuverink "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." -Linus Torvalds From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 08:19:22 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:19:22 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] My review of Ubuntu 7.10: Gooey Gumdrop In-Reply-To: <471EE7DA.7050903@gmail.com> References: <471EE7DA.7050903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710240519v5d063c6dvbf07cf3961217e31@mail.gmail.com> Ubuntu bashing seems popular today :-/ Not that I'm a huge fan... Resource usage is pretty much a non-issue with me - 2Gb of DDR2 is ~$50. If your system is too old to use DDR2, it's eating a sizable amount of excess electricity annually. I built a new Celeron 420 (a single-core Core2Duo) w/ 2Gb DDR2 and integrated Intel G965 graphics, gigabit LAN, firewire, 10 USB2 ports, etc etc etc. for $250 recently (though I already had the MicroATX case). The entire system consumes ~50W at idle. Compared to my (also relatively conservative) Sempron 3100+ system which draws ~120W at idle, I save $66 annually in electricity. Compared to a P4 with an older GeForce, my new computer might pay for itself in two years - not to mention the performance improvement, better Linux support, extra features, etc. And that's not even taking into consideration the amount I save on electricity by calming the war between my computers and my A/C. As for Compiz using CPU cycles, it generally doesn't. It farms a lot of graphics operations that would have normally been done by your CPU out to OpenGL - and hence your GPU - which can (at least in theory) free up CPU cycles for other things. As for increased power draw, I haven't tested my own machines. However, I have to assume that if one were to disable / uninstall things like tracker, NetworkManager, etc, then ram and power usage should decrease somewhat. However, Gnome and KDE have never really been 'lightweight'. As we keep dreaming up new things for our computers to do, I wouldn't expect them ever to be. As far as stability and 'bugginess' go, I haven't noticed any show stoppers here. My 2c. --tim From adderd at kkmfg.com Wed Oct 24 09:02:00 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:02:00 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: <1193082817.7712.57.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1193068959.7712.34.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <471CDC12.7030402@kkmfg.com> <1193082817.7712.57.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <471F4248.3070104@kkmfg.com> > > Nope not because I could. I did it as a first choice. I've been using > 32-bit for years. > > I saw some significant improvements in the way things were going. I just > installed it and had a few things go bad, mainly due to the fact it is > such a new chipset... > > I have 4GB of RAM, as well. Everything works just fine. I have lots of > sutff running sometimes, I see no degradation during these intensive > times. > > I see no reason *NOT* to use 64-bit, its long term, the 32-bit > abstraction is well defined and I feel qualified enough to say 32-bit is > done and all machine I get from now on are going to be 64-bit and run > 64-bit OS and 32-bit abstraction for things like Flash/Java/whatever. > Just to resurrect this slightly old topic. I went for broke and installed a x86_64 version of linux onto my new laptop. Previously just a day or two before that I had installed the 32 bit version of the same distro. I use Arch linux. My experience has been that the 64 bit version of Arch runs just as well if not better than the 32 bit version. It has almost the same amount of software, all of which is natively compiled for 64 bit. The x86_64 philosophy over at Arch is that if you are going to go 64 bit you may as well do it all the way and not use 32 anywhere it isn't necessary. In my case the only necessary place was for installing Flash since it has no 64 bit version. The only problem I am having currently is that the sound card (Intel HD Audio) is only partially supported it seems and I get no sound just yet. But Compiz-Fusion works very well. Who doesn't need raindrops while you are working. ;-) So now that I've bit the bullet I have to second the motion that linux 64bit is indeed ready for prime time. From List at j-alta-k.net Wed Oct 24 10:21:46 2007 From: List at j-alta-k.net (Judith Alta) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:21:46 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> Starting several months ago emails to me bounced when sent from Comcast. I contacted Netfirms, my domain host, and they said that it was on Comcast's end, as they had done everything they could to get those emails to come through. So apparently I was not alone. Haven't had anyone tell me for some little time now that my emails are bouncing, and I've been getting email from people whose posts to me had bounced before. Judith Alta Kidder Bob Kline wrote: > > > On 10/21/07, *john-thomas richards* > wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 07:28:58PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote: > Based on my > understanding this company would lose common carrier status and > would then be > liable for illegal activities on its network. Thus, it *is* > illegal for > Comcast to want to limit how I use my internet connection. > > Then again, I may be all wet. :-) > > [snip, snip, and more snip] > -- > john-thomas > ------ > > > It's pretty clear that Comcast is not very > proud of what it's doing. Now that it has > been definitively found out, maybe concerned > customers will look in to the legal status of its > actions. I understand that customers cannot > run their Internet connects full bore, 24/7/365, > but Comcast needs to be more upfront about > its policies - good, bad, or in between. > > It annoys many that the telcos and cable > companies assure Congress that net neutrality > legislation is not needed, only to show that is > a cynical attempt to help ensure that Congress > does nothing. > > Now to see what Congress does, and whether > it comes down on our side or the Industry's. > > I think I know, but hope otherwise. I'd like to > see the gov't have its own high speed backbone > for for Internet traffic, and then just contract > companies to run it. This has been done with > other gov't communications system. FTS 2000, > a private gov't phone system. And no doubt > Internet2, which none of us can use unless we > work at a school or lab. > > But we can pay for it.... > > The world is tiered in all kinds of different ways. > > -Bob > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071024/edba9e6a/attachment-0001.htm From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Oct 24 11:50:40 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:50:40 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> Message-ID: <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 10:21 -0400, Judith Alta wrote: > Starting several months ago emails to me bounced when sent from > Comcast. I contacted Netfirms, my domain host, and they said that it > was on Comcast's end, as they had done everything they could to get > those emails to come through. So apparently I was not alone. > > Haven't had anyone tell me for some little time now that my emails are > bouncing, and I've been getting email from people whose posts to me > had bounced before. > > Judith Alta Kidder About June/July/August, Comcast started using rules that include: "Sender Domain must currently exist and be resolvable" "Sender must exist upon query to sending domain" "Sender appears to be UCBE account on sending domain, put in SPAM folder" "Sender must *NOT* be a dynamically assigned IP" "Sender IP must have a reverse-pointer name not looking non-batch created name (ie: 202-123-45-67.grr.mi.somedomain.dom == bad. somedynamicname.grr.mi.somedomain.dom == good. Even though they are equivalent.)" "If content looks like SPAM, even though it is a valid report from a report system with lotsa of apparently random info, but is not random line noise, it is SPAM" "Too many 'To:' addresses or NO 'To:' addresses, possibly bounce or put in SPAM" "Plus, use ALL SARE rules for SPAM detection" "Plus, use some custom rules, addressing customer complaints" "DKIM, SPF, SenderID, doesn't mean crap, as spammers are using them as well" I've spent about 25 hours chasing down a Operation Phone Number, its invalid, I got another one, its the "long distance" number for the toll free support line. Which then gives me the first invalid number. Sending to Comcast is a serious PITA. Getting REAL people on the phone to resolve these issue are IMPOSSIBLE. I work for a company that *DOES TRULY* Follow the Federal Government Rules and Regulations. ------------------- Every single e-mail recipient has done the opt-in. Every single e-mail sent, has a unique "unsubscribe" address. Every single e-mail sent, has an "unsubscribe" https link, that works. Every single e-mail sent, has "unsubscribe" instructions. Every single e-mail sent. complies with *ALL* Federal Guidelines for Bulk/Commercial/non-Profit e-mails ------------------- Our systems send out over 1 Million e-mails a day (average). I can run a report with all of the subscribe info the user provided, including unique identifier info and either proof of "purchase of something" or "donation of something" or "request for daily info" and the fact they in fact *DID* the opt-in, as we (systematically) do not allow the "check box" to be pre-filled. From those e-mails, we still get about 1000 "Violations of SPAM/UCE/UBE" policy from various Internet Mail Providers, notably AOL, Comcast, MSN, Earthlink. Every month I have to go through the efforts of proving we are not sending SPAM. They then tell their users of the resolutions. The users promptly ignore the resolutions and report the stuff as SPAM again and again and again. We cannot REMOVE them from the subscriptions, we are forbidden to do that by our customers as a part of policy and contracts. We can ask them to remove these reporters, but most do nothing. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071024/ec7f89f4/attachment.pgp From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 12:03:02 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:03:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On 10/24/07, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 10:21 -0400, Judith Alta wrote: > > > I've spent about 25 hours chasing down a Operation Phone Number, its > invalid, I got another one, its the "long distance" number for the toll > free support line. Which then gives me the first invalid number. > > Sending to Comcast is a serious PITA. Getting REAL people on the phone > to resolve these issue are IMPOSSIBLE. Typical monopoly behavior. Big companies with monopolies usually don't care whether people live or die on an individual basis. If they detect they are losing business by, say, the thousands of customers, they might wake up and see what's going on. Otherwise they just accept a certain amount of churn, and seem to assume that if you're calling you're a trouble maker anyway. I've gotten Comcast people on the phone now and then, and they are often snotty has hell. And you'll rarely get beyond "power cycle your machine." Say that's not the problem and you'll get "well, if you don't want us to help you we have other calls waiting." Just make sure you get your bill paid on time. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071024/1288bf0b/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 12:13:42 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:13:42 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On 10/24/07, Bob Kline wrote: > On 10/24/07, Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 10:21 -0400, Judith Alta wrote: > > I've spent about 25 hours chasing down a Operation Phone Number, its > > invalid, I got another one, its the "long distance" number for the toll > > free support line. Which then gives me the first invalid number. > > > > Sending to Comcast is a serious PITA. Getting REAL people on the phone > > to resolve these issue are IMPOSSIBLE. > > > > Typical monopoly behavior. Big companies > with monopolies usually don't care whether > people live or die on an individual basis. If > they detect they are losing business by, say, > the thousands of customers, they might > wake up and see what's going on. Otherwise > they just accept a certain amount of churn, > and seem to assume that if you're calling > you're a trouble maker anyway. > > I've gotten Comcast people on the phone > now and then, and they are often snotty has > hell. And you'll rarely get beyond "power cycle > your machine." Say that's not the problem and > you'll get "well, if you don't want us to help you > we have other calls waiting." > > Just make sure you get your bill paid on time. > > -Bob Another gem: A friend of mine was dropped by Comcast last week for excess usage. (He had been seeding a large number of popular torrents.) When someone else in the family called Comcast (and reportedly spoke to them very calmly), the Comcast abuse rep quickly raised his voice and began shouting. I'd heard of rude, sarcastic and obnoxious reps on tech support lines, but to have a rep shout at the customer goes beyond anything I'd heard of before. Incidentally, Comcast is losing a $170/mo+ account as a result. -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 12:28:35 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:28:35 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On 10/24/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > On 10/24/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > On 10/24/07, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 10:21 -0400, Judith Alta wrote: > > > I've spent about 25 hours chasing down a Operation Phone Number, its > > > invalid, I got another one, its the "long distance" number for the > toll > > > free support line. Which then gives me the first invalid number. > > > > > > Sending to Comcast is a serious PITA. Getting REAL people on the phone > > > to resolve these issue are IMPOSSIBLE. > > > > > > > > Typical monopoly behavior. Big companies > > with monopolies usually don't care whether > > people live or die on an individual basis. If > > they detect they are losing business by, say, > > the thousands of customers, they might > > wake up and see what's going on. Otherwise > > they just accept a certain amount of churn, > > and seem to assume that if you're calling > > you're a trouble maker anyway. > > > > I've gotten Comcast people on the phone > > now and then, and they are often snotty has > > hell. And you'll rarely get beyond "power cycle > > your machine." Say that's not the problem and > > you'll get "well, if you don't want us to help you > > we have other calls waiting." > > > > Just make sure you get your bill paid on time. > > > > -Bob > > Another gem: A friend of mine was dropped by Comcast last week for > excess usage. (He had been seeding a large number of popular > torrents.) When someone else in the family called Comcast (and > reportedly spoke to them very calmly), the Comcast abuse rep quickly > raised his voice and began shouting. > > I'd heard of rude, sarcastic and obnoxious reps on tech support lines, > but to have a rep shout at the customer goes beyond anything I'd heard > of before. > > Incidentally, Comcast is losing a $170/mo+ account as a result. In a way one can look at this as Comcast imposing byte limits. Here again, Comcast could just spell it out. What is the point at which they chuck you for being an abuser? Is the limit averaged over a day, a week, or a month? But here too, a company is free to turn down business. But being a near monopoly, you'd think they'd be required to inform people first about what rules are. Am I correct in saying the person above was warned at least once, or was he just cut off? -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071024/40c25471/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 12:57:30 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:57:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On 10/24/07, Bob Kline wrote: > On 10/24/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > Another gem: A friend of mine was dropped by Comcast last week for > > excess usage. (He had been seeding a large number of popular > > torrents.) When someone else in the family called Comcast (and > > reportedly spoke to them very calmly), the Comcast abuse rep quickly > > raised his voice and began shouting. > > > > I'd heard of rude, sarcastic and obnoxious reps on tech support lines, > > but to have a rep shout at the customer goes beyond anything I'd heard > > of before. > > > > Incidentally, Comcast is losing a $170/mo+ account as a result. > > > > In a way one can look at this as > Comcast imposing byte limits. > > Here again, Comcast could just > spell it out. What is the point at > which they chuck you for being an > abuser? Is the limit averaged over > a day, a week, or a month? > > But here too, a company is free > to turn down business. But being > a near monopoly, you'd think they'd > be required to inform people first > about what rules are. > > Am I correct in saying the person > above was warned at least once, > or was he just cut off? He was warned once, but wasn't told what an acceptable level of usage was. He subsequently capped his torrent client at a lower rate. Presumably, it wasn't low enough. -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 13:02:39 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:02:39 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On 10/24/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > On 10/24/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > On 10/24/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > Another gem: A friend of mine was dropped by Comcast last week for > > > excess usage. (He had been seeding a large number of popular > > > torrents.) When someone else in the family called Comcast (and > > > reportedly spoke to them very calmly), the Comcast abuse rep quickly > > > raised his voice and began shouting. > > > > > > I'd heard of rude, sarcastic and obnoxious reps on tech support lines, > > > but to have a rep shout at the customer goes beyond anything I'd heard > > > of before. > > > > > > Incidentally, Comcast is losing a $170/mo+ account as a result. > > > > > > > > In a way one can look at this as > > Comcast imposing byte limits. > > > > Here again, Comcast could just > > spell it out. What is the point at > > which they chuck you for being an > > abuser? Is the limit averaged over > > a day, a week, or a month? > > > > But here too, a company is free > > to turn down business. But being > > a near monopoly, you'd think they'd > > be required to inform people first > > about what rules are. > > > > Am I correct in saying the person > > above was warned at least once, > > or was he just cut off? > > He was warned once, but wasn't told what an acceptable level of usage > was. He subsequently capped his torrent client at a lower rate. > Presumably, it wasn't low enough. That I've read, Comcast doesn't want people using Bit Torrent at all. At least that's how it's behaving. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071024/593e57d7/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 13:29:56 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:29:56 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Comcast and net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: <20071022002855.GA14472@jrichards.org> <471F54FA.8030902@j-alta-k.net> <1193241040.27234.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On 10/24/07, Bob Kline wrote: > On 10/24/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > On 10/24/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > On 10/24/07, Michael Mol wrote: > > > > Another gem: A friend of mine was dropped by Comcast last week for > > > > excess usage. (He had been seeding a large number of popular > > > > torrents.) When someone else in the family called Comcast (and > > > > reportedly spoke to them very calmly), the Comcast abuse rep quickly > > > > raised his voice and began shouting. > > > > > > > > I'd heard of rude, sarcastic and obnoxious reps on tech support lines, > > > > but to have a rep shout at the customer goes beyond anything I'd heard > > > > of before. > > > > > > > > Incidentally, Comcast is losing a $170/mo+ account as a result. > > > > > > > > > > > > In a way one can look at this as > > > Comcast imposing byte limits. > > > > > > Here again, Comcast could just > > > spell it out. What is the point at > > > which they chuck you for being an > > > abuser? Is the limit averaged over > > > a day, a week, or a month? > > > > > > But here too, a company is free > > > to turn down business. But being > > > a near monopoly, you'd think they'd > > > be required to inform people first > > > about what rules are. > > > > > > Am I correct in saying the person > > > above was warned at least once, > > > or was he just cut off? > > > > He was warned once, but wasn't told what an acceptable level of usage > > was. He subsequently capped his torrent client at a lower rate. > > Presumably, it wasn't low enough. > > > > That I've read, Comcast doesn't > want people using Bit Torrent at all. > > At least that's how it's behaving. Then they should come out and say it. Between profanities, the abuse rep accused them of running a commercial server, saying that was the only possible way they could have had that much outgoing traffic. P2P clients aren't commercial servers. -- :wq From investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us Wed Oct 24 23:08:29 2007 From: investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us (Brad Becker) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:08:29 -0700 Subject: [GRLUG] 64bit Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710242008.29507.investmgmt@s91195370.onlinehome.us> On Monday 22 October 2007 06:42:25 Benjamin Flanders wrote: > Anyone have any experiences with 64bit linux lately? I've been > running i386 because I didn't want to mess with the the headaches that > seemed to dog the 64bit releases a few years ago. I've very much enjoy running Sidux 64-bit. ?Debian Sid with terrific scripts to handle apt-get's, 3D graphic acceleration, etc. http://sidux.com/ Brad Becker CPU[AMD Sempron 3100+ clocked at 2333.984 Mhz] ?Kernel[Linux 2.6.21.3-slh64-smp-4 x86_64] ?Up[-2days-] ?Mem[-376.9/1004.1MB-] ? HDD[-120GB(15%used)-] ?Procs[-92-] ?Client[Shell] From rlauzon at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 06:40:40 2007 From: rlauzon at gmail.com (Ron Lauzon) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:40:40 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] For Sale: Zaurus SL-C760 Message-ID: <472315A8.2030102@acm.org> This is a clam shell PDA/computer that Sharp put out a while back. It's basically "Barbie's laptop" running Linux. The basic stats: 640x480 screen 3.7 inches 128 MB RAM (currently partitioned into 64 MB for running and 64 for storage) 1 SD card slot 1 CF card slot IR transmitter/receiver 1 proprietary interface for USB connectivity to host computer See http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8500789416.html for the detailed stats and pictures. What you get: + The Zaurus SL-C760. Excellent shape. No scratches or signs of wear. + The original box and manuals (all in Japanese 8-). This unit was never intended to be sold in the U.S. + A bare-bones translated manual. + CD-ROM with Windows software (but unless you run the Japanese version of Windows, I'd not bother with it). + The data cable that lets you hook up the Zaurus to your PC via USB. + 2 AC Adaptors + The original EA-BL08 battery + A new EA-BL11 battery (extended life) from Conics (new 1/7/2007). + Netgear MA701 WiFi CF card + Ambicom 56K Modem CF card + An emergency power supply. Basically you plug a 9V battery into it and then plug it into the Zaurus. The Zaurus think's it's plugged in. You can charge the Zaurus battery from it. + 256 MB CF card. If you want to reflash the Zaurus with something else, you need to flash it from a CF card. It no longer has the original OS on it. I flashed it with OpenZaurus 3.5.4.1 (Linux kernel 2.6.16). It has FBReader installed and PDF viewer. Comes with a wireless network sniffer, web browser (Konqueror-based), Media player and more. Everything works just fine (although I haven't tried the modem in a loooongg time 8-). I'm simply not using it anymore and it makes no sense to let it collect dust. $200 -- Ron Lauzon - rlauzon at acm dot org Homepage: http://7lauzon.home.comcast.net/ Weblog: http://ronsapartment.blogspot.com/ DNRC: Lord of All Things That Are Fattening "To be sure, conservative radio talk show hosts have a built-in audience unavailable to liberals: People driving cars to some sort of job." - Ann Coulter Microsoft Free since July 06, 2001 Running Mandriva Linux 2007 From timschmidt at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 14:29:14 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:29:14 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Umm... wow. Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710291129s6c4dc31bge5980a1d4f4c85ef@mail.gmail.com> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816152039 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134329 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105169 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145166 8 CPU cores, 32Gb RAM, 3Tb raw storage, 1U < $4000 Wow. --tim From brousch at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 14:36:55 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:36:55 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Umm... wow. In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0710291129s6c4dc31bge5980a1d4f4c85ef@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c97fe9d0710291129s6c4dc31bge5980a1d4f4c85ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: But does it run Linux? On 10/29/07, Tim Schmidt wrote: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816152039 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134329 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105169 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145166 > > 8 CPU cores, > 32Gb RAM, > 3Tb raw storage, > 1U > > < $4000 > > Wow. > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071029/3f3d9adc/attachment-0001.htm From jtr at jrichards.org Mon Oct 29 14:49:28 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:49:28 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Umm... wow. In-Reply-To: References: <2c97fe9d0710291129s6c4dc31bge5980a1d4f4c85ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071029184928.GA15651@jrichards.org> On Mon, Oct 29, 2007 at 02:36:55PM -0400, Ben Rousch wrote: > On 10/29/07, Tim Schmidt wrote: > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816152039 > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134329 > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105169 > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145166 > > > > 8 CPU cores, > > 32Gb RAM, > > 3Tb raw storage, > > 1U > > > > < $4000 > > > > Wow. > > But does it run Linux? Dunno, but you should play golf on this thing. Wow is right. -- john-thomas ------ The only man who is really free is the one who can turn down an invitation to dinner without giving an excuse. Jules Renard, writer (1864-1910) From timschmidt at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 15:07:09 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:07:09 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Umm... wow. In-Reply-To: References: <2c97fe9d0710291129s6c4dc31bge5980a1d4f4c85ef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710291207w533caaecq7ef453b4d1a05132@mail.gmail.com> On 10/29/07, Ben Rousch wrote: > But does it run Linux? These days a MUCH more apt question is "What doesn't run Linux?". --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 15:54:42 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:54:42 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] Umm... wow. In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0710291207w533caaecq7ef453b4d1a05132@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c97fe9d0710291129s6c4dc31bge5980a1d4f4c85ef@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0710291207w533caaecq7ef453b4d1a05132@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920710291254v70c992aag768e4076ec87a90d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/29/07, Tim Schmidt wrote: > > On 10/29/07, Ben Rousch wrote: > > But does it run Linux? > > These days a MUCH more apt question is "What doesn't run Linux?". Even micro$oft uses it on a pretty professional level Makes you wonder why they wouldn't use something as wonderful as ICF ;-) justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo nmap -O microsoft.com Starting Nmap 4.20 ( http://insecure.org ) at 2007-10-29 15:49 EDT Warning: Hostname microsoft.com resolves to 2 IPs. Using 207.46.197.32. Warning: OS detection for 207.46.197.32 will be MUCH less reliable because we did not find at least 1 open and 1 closed TCP port Warning: OS detection will be MUCH less reliable because we did not find at least 1 open and 1 closed TCP port Insufficient responses for TCP sequencing (0), OS detection may be less accurate Interesting ports on 207.46.197.32: Not shown: 1693 filtered ports PORT STATE SERVICE 21/tcp open ftp 25/tcp open smtp 80/tcp open http 443/tcp open https Device type: firewall|general purpose Running: IPCop Linux 2.2.X, Sun Solaris 2.X|7|8 OS details: IPCop 1.20 Linux 2.2.2X-based firewall, Sun Solaris 2.6 - 8 (SPARC) OS detection performed. Please report any incorrect results at http://insecure.org/nmap/submit/ . Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 79.475 seconds --Justin --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071029/66a70c27/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 14:29:30 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:29:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux Message-ID: Not Linux, but since one option is Myth, Linux related. Linux application anyway. My Panasonic DVD-RAM unit went dark and died yesterday. Suiting my needs for recording programs, and then removing the 12 to 15 minutes of ads from each 30 minutes of programming, I first thought of simply replacing it. But not so simple. A look around shows that Panasonic and its partners that spearhead the DVD-RAM approach have apparently abandoned the business. One sees ads for "refurbished" units, which can be OK, but I'd rather get something new. Anyone have any suggestions for a stand alone unit that might make a good replacement? I suspect many units that record DVD +/- RW would suffice. But the units take a beating when used in the way I described, and some will probably last longer than others. A unit with a hard drive is an option too, but not one that has a monthly fee. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071030/3636f0b0/attachment-0001.htm From dond at standalelumber.com Tue Oct 30 14:35:50 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:35:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1193769350.6945.9.camel@donw-laptop> You left out a big factor. How much are you willing to spend? I've been investigating build a myth box with an Asus Terminator for a reasonable figure. On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 14:29 -0400, Bob Kline wrote: > Not Linux, but since one option is > Myth, Linux related. Linux application > anyway. > > My Panasonic DVD-RAM unit went dark > and died yesterday. Suiting my needs for > recording programs, and then removing > the 12 to 15 minutes of ads from each 30 > minutes of programming, I first thought > of simply replacing it. > > But not so simple. A look around shows > that Panasonic and its partners that > spearhead the DVD-RAM approach have > apparently abandoned the business. One > sees ads for "refurbished" units, which > can be OK, but I'd rather get something > new. > > Anyone have any suggestions for a stand > alone unit that might make a good > replacement? I suspect many units that > record DVD +/- RW would suffice. But > the units take a beating when used in the > way I described, and some will probably > last longer than others. > > A unit with a hard drive is an option too, > but not one that has a monthly fee. > > -Bob > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 14:43:15 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:43:15 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: <1193769350.6945.9.camel@donw-laptop> References: <1193769350.6945.9.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: You are correct sir. There's latitude here. I will consider something up to $300 if it, for example, has a hard drive. For something that writes DVD+/-RW, probably $150 or less, depending on features. A big part of what I am willing to spend will be predicated on the success and experience anyone here has had with a particular unit. i.e., I'd prefer to get something that someone else is already happy with. I only got about 18 months of admittedly heavy use from the Panasonic. But being Panasonic, I expected more. All to say, you never know. Brand is not necessarily an indicator of quality or product lifetime any more. If nothing surfaces, I will try to get in to the Myth approach. Well supported on Ubuntu I read. -Bob On Oct 30, 2007 2:35 PM, Don Wood wrote: > You left out a big factor. How much are you willing to spend? I've been > investigating build a myth box with an Asus Terminator for a reasonable > figure. > > > On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 14:29 -0400, Bob Kline wrote: > > Not Linux, but since one option is > > Myth, Linux related. Linux application > > anyway. > > > > My Panasonic DVD-RAM unit went dark > > and died yesterday. Suiting my needs for > > recording programs, and then removing > > the 12 to 15 minutes of ads from each 30 > > minutes of programming, I first thought > > of simply replacing it. > > > > But not so simple. A look around shows > > that Panasonic and its partners that > > spearhead the DVD-RAM approach have > > apparently abandoned the business. One > > sees ads for "refurbished" units, which > > can be OK, but I'd rather get something > > new. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions for a stand > > alone unit that might make a good > > replacement? I suspect many units that > > record DVD +/- RW would suffice. But > > the units take a beating when used in the > > way I described, and some will probably > > last longer than others. > > > > A unit with a hard drive is an option too, > > but not one that has a monthly fee. > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071030/a4094a18/attachment.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 14:57:08 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:57:08 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1193769350.6945.9.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710301157m45729276w7589769979afe548@mail.gmail.com> I'm immensely happy with my MythTV box. I'm running Mythbuntu, using a Plextor PX-TV402U on a 1.3Ghz PIII-based Celeron with 512Mb ram, integrated Intel 815-based graphics, an 80Gb hard drive, and a cheap DVD-RW. I get better than 1 hour / Gb at 640x480, and I simply have the machine hooked up to a monitor instead of a TV (nowadays TVs _are_ large monitors - complete with VGA and DVI / HDMI). I simply use an RF keyboard as the remote. It took all of an hour to install Mythbuntu, 5 minutes to set up the tuner, and a minute or two to install libdecess for DVD playing. The tuner does MPEG4 (the Divx variety, not h.264) encoding in hardware, and the 815 seems to have some XvMC support, so the only thing left for the Celeron to handle is commercial flagging and basic maintenance duties like frobbing the database and drawing the GUI. I literally found the computer outside my apartment one day (it had clearly sat through a light rain - I had to replace the battery, probably why it was abandoned) - $5 I ebayed the tuner for $80 + $9.50 s&h I bought the 17" CRT at a garage sale for $30 The keyboard set me back $44 at newegg DVDRW was a hand-me-down from an upgraded box Total cost: $168.50 From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 15:13:30 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:13:30 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0710301157m45729276w7589769979afe548@mail.gmail.com> References: <1193769350.6945.9.camel@donw-laptop> <2c97fe9d0710301157m45729276w7589769979afe548@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That's appealing. Depending on what else shows up I'll give this serious consideration. The price is right, and I do have an appropriate monitor. The Plextor unit is the volume card now for Myth? i.e., well suported? Re DivX and h.264, what is the difference? Ones sees DivX in many of the stand alone unit ads. Thanks for the pointers. -Bob On Oct 30, 2007 2:57 PM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > I'm immensely happy with my MythTV box. > > I'm running Mythbuntu, using a Plextor PX-TV402U on a 1.3Ghz > PIII-based Celeron with 512Mb ram, integrated Intel 815-based > graphics, an 80Gb hard drive, and a cheap DVD-RW. I get better than 1 > hour / Gb at 640x480, and I simply have the machine hooked up to a > monitor instead of a TV (nowadays TVs _are_ large monitors - complete > with VGA and DVI / HDMI). I simply use an RF keyboard as the remote. > > It took all of an hour to install Mythbuntu, 5 minutes to set up the > tuner, and a minute or two to install libdecess for DVD playing. > > The tuner does MPEG4 (the Divx variety, not h.264) encoding in > hardware, and the 815 seems to have some XvMC support, so the only > thing left for the Celeron to handle is commercial flagging and basic > maintenance duties like frobbing the database and drawing the GUI. > > I literally found the computer outside my apartment one day (it had > clearly sat through a light rain - I had to replace the battery, > probably why it was abandoned) - $5 > I ebayed the tuner for $80 + $9.50 s&h > I bought the 17" CRT at a garage sale for $30 > The keyboard set me back $44 at newegg > DVDRW was a hand-me-down from an upgraded box > > Total cost: $168.50 > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071030/da21e57f/attachment-0001.htm From joshgant at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 15:20:34 2007 From: joshgant at gmail.com (Josh Gant) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:20:34 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, (Hi - I'm new to the list) I thought I'd mention another option. I was a long time MythTV user and I've switched over to just running Ubuntu on a PC connected to my 46" display. I use a RF keyboard/mouse. I use Ted and Ktorrent to download TV episodes and I like it quite a lot. Ted is a java applet that searches the torrent sites for TV shows and keeps track of what episodes it has downloaded. I prefer it over the MythTv option because I can watch TV shows plus I have a full desktop in the living room. http://www.ted.nu/ - Josh On 10/30/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > Not Linux, but since one option is > Myth, Linux related. Linux application > anyway. > > My Panasonic DVD-RAM unit went dark > and died yesterday. Suiting my needs for > recording programs, and then removing > the 12 to 15 minutes of ads from each 30 > minutes of programming, I first thought > of simply replacing it. > > But not so simple. A look around shows > that Panasonic and its partners that > spearhead the DVD-RAM approach have > apparently abandoned the business. One > sees ads for "refurbished" units, which > can be OK, but I'd rather get something > new. > > Anyone have any suggestions for a stand > alone unit that might make a good > replacement? I suspect many units that > record DVD +/- RW would suffice. But > the units take a beating when used in the > way I described, and some will probably > last longer than others. > > A unit with a hard drive is an option too, > but not one that has a monthly fee. > > -Bob > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Josh Gant 616.437.0060 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071030/70f349e5/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 15:29:50 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:29:50 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds like Myth has arrived. What tuner card are you running? Sans display, and idea off hand what you setup set you back? Thanks. -Bob On Oct 30, 2007 3:20 PM, Josh Gant wrote: > All, (Hi - I'm new to the list) > > I thought I'd mention another option. I was a long time MythTV user and > I've switched over to just running Ubuntu on a PC connected to my 46" > display. I use a RF keyboard/mouse. I use Ted and Ktorrent to download TV > episodes and I like it quite a lot. Ted is a java applet that searches the > torrent sites for TV shows and keeps track of what episodes it has > downloaded. I prefer it over the MythTv option because I can watch TV shows > plus I have a full desktop in the living room. > > http://www.ted.nu/ > > - Josh > > On 10/30/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > > Not Linux, but since one option is > > Myth, Linux related. Linux application > > anyway. > > > > My Panasonic DVD-RAM unit went dark > > and died yesterday. Suiting my needs for > > recording programs, and then removing > > the 12 to 15 minutes of ads from each 30 > > minutes of programming, I first thought > > of simply replacing it. > > > > But not so simple. A look around shows > > that Panasonic and its partners that > > spearhead the DVD-RAM approach have > > apparently abandoned the business. One > > sees ads for "refurbished" units, which > > can be OK, but I'd rather get something > > new. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions for a stand > > alone unit that might make a good > > replacement? I suspect many units that > > record DVD +/- RW would suffice. But > > the units take a beating when used in the > > way I described, and some will probably > > last longer than others. > > > > A unit with a hard drive is an option too, > > but not one that has a monthly fee. > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > Josh Gant > 616.437.0060 > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071030/3efc96ef/attachment.htm From josh at hulst.ws Tue Oct 30 15:42:02 2007 From: josh at hulst.ws (Joshua Hulst) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:42:02 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <697e1f100710301242n48cd729eq7d369e73649e8c7b@mail.gmail.com> On 10/30/07, Bob Kline wrote: >What tuner card are you running? >Sans display, and idea off hand >what you setup set you back? My machine running Myth was free, something somebody was throwing away. Any modern low end system should work well for standard def tv though. I've been watching slickdeals.net. There are refurbished machines on there often which would work wonderful if you don't feel like building your own. I bought a larger hard drive and the tuner card. I have a Hauppage PVR-150 tuner card in it. It works very well for standard def tv. If you are looking for High Def recording, I have heard good things about the HD Home Run. There are multiple varieties of the PVR-150, the one I got came with a IR remote and an IR blaster for controlling other devices. I don't use the remote much, instead I went with an RF keyboard which is very nice. The IR blaster is a nice touch for controlling a TV or VCR for those rare times when a tape is played. jwh > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071030/3674fd54/attachment-0001.htm From ta at nextgenengineering.com Tue Oct 30 15:43:40 2007 From: ta at nextgenengineering.com (Thomas Anderson) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:43:40 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200710301543.40745.ta@nextgenengineering.com> On Tuesday 30 October 2007 3:20:34 pm Josh Gant wrote: > All, (Hi - I'm new to the list) > > I thought I'd mention another option. I was a long time MythTV user and > I've switched over to just running Ubuntu on a PC connected to my 46" > display. I use a RF keyboard/mouse. I use Ted and Ktorrent to download TV > episodes and I like it quite a lot. Ted is a java applet that searches the > torrent sites for TV shows and keeps track of what episodes it has > downloaded. I prefer it over the MythTv option because I can watch TV > shows plus I have a full desktop in the living room. > > http://www.ted.nu/ > > - Josh > > On 10/30/07, Bob Kline wrote: > > Not Linux, but since one option is > > Myth, Linux related. Linux application > > anyway. > > > > My Panasonic DVD-RAM unit went dark > > and died yesterday. Suiting my needs for > > recording programs, and then removing > > the 12 to 15 minutes of ads from each 30 > > minutes of programming, I first thought > > of simply replacing it. > > > > But not so simple. A look around shows > > that Panasonic and its partners that > > spearhead the DVD-RAM approach have > > apparently abandoned the business. One > > sees ads for "refurbished" units, which > > can be OK, but I'd rather get something > > new. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions for a stand > > alone unit that might make a good > > replacement? I suspect many units that > > record DVD +/- RW would suffice. But > > the units take a beating when used in the > > way I described, and some will probably > > last longer than others. > > > > A unit with a hard drive is an option too, > > but not one that has a monthly fee. > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug FYI. I am pretty much in the same boat as josh, however I am using newsgroups with a giganews account. Comcast comes with a giganews account for 2 gig. That wouldn't last me a day, so I purchased an account for $25/month for unlimited. I can consistently stream over 500KB/s and alt.binaries.multimedia usually has a plethora of tv shows (commercial free). I regularly comb the groups, but when looking for something specific, you can use http://www.binsearch.info/ or http://www.newzleech.com/ to get a nzb file. I have even wrote an automatic header update for klibido (Kde LInux BInary DOwnloader). -- Thomas Anderson Nextgen Engineering LLC ta at nextgenengineering.com From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 16:46:07 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:46:07 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1193769350.6945.9.camel@donw-laptop> <2c97fe9d0710301157m45729276w7589769979afe548@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0710301346g58092370j9f04bca6970418ae@mail.gmail.com> On 10/30/07, Bob Kline wrote: > The Plextor unit is the volume card > now for Myth? i.e., well suported? The plextor unit is a little box that plugs into your computer via USB, and contains a TV tuner, as well as hardware for video compression. The audio (uncompressed) and video (compressed as MPEG1/2/4 or MJPEG) comes over the USB connection. MythTV supports it very well. It's a little nicer than other tuners that do hardware compression because MPEG4 takes up somewhat less space than MPEG2 (what the PVR150 and friends support). Divx and H.264 are both variations of MPEG4. H.264 is used by HDTV, and provides somewhat better compression than Divx, but there are currently no standard def tuners that do any better than Divx. --tim From brousch at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 07:10:54 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:10:54 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] dvgrab problem Message-ID: I just got a new Panasonic PV-GS80 MiniDV camcorder and am trying to capture the DV for editing in Kino. I am able to view the video smoothly on the camera's LCD and capture video over firewire, but it comes in at very poor quality. I am running Gutsy on a 2GHz proc and 512MB of RAM so I don't think insufficient resources are the problem. I am using firewire via a PCMCIA add-on card. When I capture with dvgrab, I get a lot of the following messages: "dvgrab-008.avi": buffer underrun near: timecode 00:01:45.07 date 2007.10.3019:14:31 This error means that the frames could not be written fast enough. This seems to indicate that my hard disk is too slow? It is a 160GB laptop drive less than 6 months old. There seemed to be problems with DMA not working for some hard disks back in Feisty, and I see that DMA is not turned on for /dev/sda1. It also seems to be impossible to turn DMA on. When I try sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/sda1 I get the error: /dev/sda1: setting using_dma to 1 (on) HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device I think I have all of the proper modules loaded for dv: lsmod | grep 1394 video1394 19800 0 dv1394 20824 0 raw1394 31096 0 ohci1394 36528 2 video1394,dv1394 ieee1394 96312 4 video1394,dv1394,raw1394,ohci1394 I've reached the limits of my troubleshooting, so if anyone else has any ideas I'd love to hear them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071031/77880b45/attachment.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 15:15:24 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:15:24 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] What's Z + 1 Message-ID: <81e08d920710311215oe92d682i943c01bdfa98da99@mail.gmail.com> Depends on what you're counting with. I needed to loop over [A-Z] to make some anchors and stumbled across something interesting. for ($i="A"; $i < Z; $i++): echo($i); endfor; Gives ABCD{..}XY for ($i="A"; $i <= Z; $i++): echo($i); endfor; Gives ABCD{..}XYZAABB{..} So I'm using for ($i="A"; ($i <= Z and $i != "AA"); $i++): echo($i); endfor; This produces the desired results. >From what I understand the default php behavior matched perl in that Z++ = "AA" not "]" as it would in C (so I 've read) Is there a better way to do this? -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071031/19b4deff/attachment-0001.htm From jeffd at i2k.com Wed Oct 31 20:31:05 2007 From: jeffd at i2k.com (Jeff DeFouw) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:31:05 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] What's Z + 1 In-Reply-To: <81e08d920710311215oe92d682i943c01bdfa98da99@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920710311215oe92d682i943c01bdfa98da99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071101003105.GA16219@blorp.plorb.com> On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:15:24PM -0400, Justin Denick wrote: > So I'm using > for ($i="A"; ($i <= Z and $i != "AA"); $i++): > echo($i); > endfor; > > This produces the desired results. > > Is there a better way to do this? Probably foreach (range('A','Z') as $i): echo($i); endforeach; since php 4.1. At least it looks simpler. I don't know if it's internally better. -- Jeff DeFouw From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Oct 31 22:47:25 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:47:25 -0400 Subject: [GRLUG] What's Z + 1 In-Reply-To: <81e08d920710311215oe92d682i943c01bdfa98da99@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920710311215oe92d682i943c01bdfa98da99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 10/31/07, Justin Denick wrote: > Depends on what you're counting with. > > I needed to loop over [A-Z] to make some anchors and stumbled across > something interesting. > > for ($i="A"; $i < Z; $i++): > echo($i); > endfor; > > Gives ABCD{..}XY > > for ($i="A"; $i <= Z; $i++): > echo($i); > endfor; > > Gives ABCD{..}XYZAABB{..} > > So I'm using > for ($i="A"; ($i <= Z and $i != "AA"); $i++): > echo($i); > endfor; > > This produces the desired results. > > From what I understand the default php behavior matched perl in that Z++ = > "AA" not "]" as it would in C (so I 've read) > > Is there a better way to do this? Had fun with this for a bit. This is what I came up with: for ( $i = "A"; strlen($i) < 2; ++$i ) echo $i; -- :wq