From bob.kline at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 16:15:12 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:15:12 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>

It's been a couple of weeks now
since the launch,  does anyone here
have anything good to say about
Ubuntu 7.10?

Many of the reviews have been
quite bullish.  I'm running
Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
anything either....


     -Bob
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From joshgant at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 16:19:02 2007
From: joshgant at gmail.com (Josh Gant)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:19:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f2c70aeb0711011319m12d26b07ub8665ee0dc02035c@mail.gmail.com>

I've noticed that on my box that has an intel graphics card, I lost all
enhanced desktop effects.  Nvidia cards have even more effects.  Other than
that it seems fine.

On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's been a couple of weeks now
> since the launch,  does anyone here
> have anything good to say about
> Ubuntu 7.10?
>
> Many of the reviews have been
> quite bullish.  I'm running
> Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
> far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
> approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
> anything either....
>
>
>      -Bob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Josh Gant
616.437.0060
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From bob.kline at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 16:23:56 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:23:56 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <f2c70aeb0711011319m12d26b07ub8665ee0dc02035c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f2c70aeb0711011319m12d26b07ub8665ee0dc02035c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711011323o4b261c17u1d741044b486f053@mail.gmail.com>

There was a lot of talk about
graphics cards early on. This
has come up in reviews too.

Is there anything to indicate that
the Ubuntu people are addressing
the issue?  This is the kind of thing
that would make me wait for a
corrected version.

   -Bob


On Nov 1, 2007 4:19 PM, Josh Gant <joshgant at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've noticed that on my box that has an intel graphics card, I lost all
> enhanced desktop effects.  Nvidia cards have even more effects.  Other than
> that it seems fine.
>
> On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It's been a couple of weeks now
> > since the launch,  does anyone here
> > have anything good to say about
> > Ubuntu 7.10?
> >
> > Many of the reviews have been
> > quite bullish.  I'm running
> > Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
> > far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
> > approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
> > anything either....
> >
> >
> >      -Bob
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Josh Gant
> 616.437.0060
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From ben at eavey.com  Thu Nov  1 16:41:16 2007
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:41:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472A39EC.3090200@eavey.com>

Bob Kline wrote:
> It's been a couple of weeks now
> since the launch,  does anyone here
> have anything good to say about
> Ubuntu 7.10?


I switched from 7.04 to 7.10 on my home machine and my work laptop. 
The home machine was running Feisty perfectly, so I went through the 
upgrade procedure to bring it to 7.10.  My work laptop was all kinds of 
messed up anyway, so I wiped it clean and installed from scratch.

I'm generally happy with both boxes, but I'm much more satisfied with 
the laptop that was loaded fresh.  Everything is snappy and works well, 
and I even have dual-screen 3D effects now with the latest ATI driver 
(it's about time they got AIGLX working).  The only problem I ran into 
was configuring the video, simply because I wanted to use the new driver 
(not included in the distro), and it's still a bit funky with dual 
screens.  The end result is fantastic, though.  I have absolutely no 
complaints now, and it runs great.

The home machine, for whatever reason, seems to be a little pokier after 
the upgrade.  I'm still quite happy with it, but there are some things 
that take just a bit longer than they used to.  Most noticeable is the 
time it takes to get to a desktop after logging in, which has gone from 
just a few seconds in Feisty to nearly a minute in Gutsy.  Granted, I 
haven't bothered to troubleshoot the problem at all, so it might be 
something simple.  Hard to say.

I like Gutsy a lot.  I'd probably recommend installing fresh as opposed 
to upgrading, based on my own weird slowness experience and on what I've 
read from others about their own upgrade woes.  Google around and see 
what people are saying.

Overall, I'd say it's worth it...

-Ben

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 16:45:41 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:45:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's been a couple of weeks now
> since the launch,  does anyone here
> have anything good to say about
> Ubuntu 7.10?
>
> Many of the reviews have been
> quite bullish.  I'm running
> Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
> far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
> approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
> anything either....
>
>

I actually wrote a second review on my blog, earlier this week.
Here's the text:

So I've been using it a couple weeks, now, and I figured it was a good
time to give it a second look.

I've had to leave Compiz enabled, because without it, It becomes a
hassle to have both Firefox open and watch videos using mplayer.
(Firefox hogs X11's XV extension, thanks to the flash plugin. Compiz
seems to perform the functional equivalent of providing a separate
copy of the extension to anyone who asks for it.) As a result, I've
learned a bit about its behavior.

The alt-tab behavior is nice. I realize some of you more advanced
folks (Including OS X users and Linux folks using experimental window
managers as far back as 2002) have had window previews in your
window-switching service for a while. Sure, yeah, it's a convenient
feature if you've got multiple windows from the same app loaded. (Web
development with Firefox would be a lot easier if I had this at work.)
At home, that's not really an issue for me.

What's really nice is how passing through the alt-tab list draws the
window immediately to the foreground, before I let go of alt-tab.
(FWIW, all my apps are full-screen at home, so I don't know if the
window order is permanently adjusted as I pass through.) Now, on
Windows, this would be a problem. Each time a portion of a window
becomes visible, Windows sends the application a paint message to get
it to redraw itself. At work, when my box was churning over one thing
or another, or waiting on some silly user-global lock (Damn you Visual
Studio, damn yooou!), I could watch the application ponderously fill
in the window with information.

In Gutsy Gibbon, with Compiz enabled, the screen contents just flip to
the window, pre-drawn. (If I had to guess, I'd think the window never
knew it was covered.) The screen changes quickly enough that the new
data appears to be there right at the start of the screen's next
vertical refresh.

Also, there's a neat feature for dealing with unstable applications.
If the application "stops responding", to steal a phrase from the
Windows world, the window desaturates until it's wholly in grayscale.
That way, you know why it's not doing what you thought it was doing.
This doesn't seem to work entirely, though. I was scrolling through
Google Reader--albeit painfully slowly--when the window desaturated. I
hadn't stopped scrolling, and the window was still updating, but the
window manager decided for some reason that the window had stopped
responding. However, it corrected itself, and resaturated the window
after I stopped rolling the scroll wheel on my mouse.

However, Firefox seems to have taken a hit. It's weird. Up until a
couple weeks ago, I never had noticeable stability problems with
Firefox, at work or home, despite both machines being low-end (3GHz or
2.2GHz P4s, respectively, though the work machine has 2GB of RAM and
the home machine only has 512MB/). In contrast, it's run slow or
crashed three times in the last week. This is only at home, though. My
box at work is still running strong. The obvious answer is that
Firefox's memory leaks are likely coming into play earlier on my home
box.

And I'm still irritated that I can't play StepMania. That might change
this weekend, though.


-- 
:wq

From mikemol at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 16:48:05 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:48:05 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011323o4b261c17u1d741044b486f053@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f2c70aeb0711011319m12d26b07ub8665ee0dc02035c@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011323o4b261c17u1d741044b486f053@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711011348n46a7a396h883618fff272f7f2@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> There was a lot of talk about
> graphics cards early on. This
> has come up in reviews too.
>
> Is there anything to indicate that
> the Ubuntu people are addressing
> the issue?  This is the kind of thing
> that would make me wait for a
> corrected version.

As I recall, the intel graphics issue is a problem with the Intel
drivers.  Intel had put the drivers on a back burner, betting nobody
would release a mainstream distro with Compiz enabled by default.  The
Ubuntu folks enabled it by default, apparently to jog Intel into
action.

FWIW, my system uses an Intel chipset.


>
> On Nov 1, 2007 4:19 PM, Josh Gant <joshgant at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've noticed that on my box that has an intel graphics card, I lost all
> enhanced desktop effects.  Nvidia cards have even more effects.  Other than
> that it seems fine.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's been a couple of weeks now
> > > since the launch,  does anyone here
> > > have anything good to say about
> > > Ubuntu 7.10?
> > >
> > > Many of the reviews have been
> > > quite bullish.  I'm running
> > > Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
> > > far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
> > > approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
> > > anything either....
> > >
> > >
> > >      -Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Josh Gant
> > 616.437.0060
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


-- 
:wq

From matt.maxted at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 16:52:10 2007
From: matt.maxted at gmail.com (Matt Maxted)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:52:10 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d97e56fa0711011352x236c924dj10bac4f0beaeb0aa@mail.gmail.com>

I have upgraded a Lenovo Thinkpad x60s from Feisty to Gusty.  Everything
went well with the exception of vmware server and display settings.  I had
to recompile vmware to their latest release.  I am having difficulty with
the dual screen options in Gusty.  If your dual screens are permanent, it
works great.  If you use a laptop screen with another monitor and you undock
and dock, then I run into issues.  Other than that, my experience has been
good.

On 11/1/07, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's been a couple of weeks now
> > since the launch,  does anyone here
> > have anything good to say about
> > Ubuntu 7.10?
> >
> > Many of the reviews have been
> > quite bullish.  I'm running
> > Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
> > far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
> > approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
> > anything either....
> >
> >
>
> I actually wrote a second review on my blog, earlier this week.
> Here's the text:
>
> So I've been using it a couple weeks, now, and I figured it was a good
> time to give it a second look.
>
> I've had to leave Compiz enabled, because without it, It becomes a
> hassle to have both Firefox open and watch videos using mplayer.
> (Firefox hogs X11's XV extension, thanks to the flash plugin. Compiz
> seems to perform the functional equivalent of providing a separate
> copy of the extension to anyone who asks for it.) As a result, I've
> learned a bit about its behavior.
>
> The alt-tab behavior is nice. I realize some of you more advanced
> folks (Including OS X users and Linux folks using experimental window
> managers as far back as 2002) have had window previews in your
> window-switching service for a while. Sure, yeah, it's a convenient
> feature if you've got multiple windows from the same app loaded. (Web
> development with Firefox would be a lot easier if I had this at work.)
> At home, that's not really an issue for me.
>
> What's really nice is how passing through the alt-tab list draws the
> window immediately to the foreground, before I let go of alt-tab.
> (FWIW, all my apps are full-screen at home, so I don't know if the
> window order is permanently adjusted as I pass through.) Now, on
> Windows, this would be a problem. Each time a portion of a window
> becomes visible, Windows sends the application a paint message to get
> it to redraw itself. At work, when my box was churning over one thing
> or another, or waiting on some silly user-global lock (Damn you Visual
> Studio, damn yooou!), I could watch the application ponderously fill
> in the window with information.
>
> In Gutsy Gibbon, with Compiz enabled, the screen contents just flip to
> the window, pre-drawn. (If I had to guess, I'd think the window never
> knew it was covered.) The screen changes quickly enough that the new
> data appears to be there right at the start of the screen's next
> vertical refresh.
>
> Also, there's a neat feature for dealing with unstable applications.
> If the application "stops responding", to steal a phrase from the
> Windows world, the window desaturates until it's wholly in grayscale.
> That way, you know why it's not doing what you thought it was doing.
> This doesn't seem to work entirely, though. I was scrolling through
> Google Reader--albeit painfully slowly--when the window desaturated. I
> hadn't stopped scrolling, and the window was still updating, but the
> window manager decided for some reason that the window had stopped
> responding. However, it corrected itself, and resaturated the window
> after I stopped rolling the scroll wheel on my mouse.
>
> However, Firefox seems to have taken a hit. It's weird. Up until a
> couple weeks ago, I never had noticeable stability problems with
> Firefox, at work or home, despite both machines being low-end (3GHz or
> 2.2GHz P4s, respectively, though the work machine has 2GB of RAM and
> the home machine only has 512MB/). In contrast, it's run slow or
> crashed three times in the last week. This is only at home, though. My
> box at work is still running strong. The obvious answer is that
> Firefox's memory leaks are likely coming into play earlier on my home
> box.
>
> And I'm still irritated that I can't play StepMania. That might change
> this weekend, though.
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From ben at eavey.com  Thu Nov  1 16:53:51 2007
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:53:51 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472A3CDF.5090808@eavey.com>

Michael Mol wrote:
> The alt-tab behavior is nice. I realize some of you more advanced
> folks (Including OS X users and Linux folks using experimental window
> managers as far back as 2002) have had window previews in your
> window-switching service for a while. Sure, yeah, it's a convenient
> feature if you've got multiple windows from the same app loaded. (Web
> development with Firefox would be a lot easier if I had this at work.)
> At home, that's not really an issue for me.

The Scale plugin for Compiz has become my new favorite method of 
switching windows.  Have you played with it yet?  It's enabled by 
default, I believe.  Shift-Alt-Up arrow.  Very nice.  :)

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 17:06:08 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 17:06:08 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>

I've seen problems with Firefox
under 7.04 if I leave it up long
enough.  Seems to depend on what
I'm doing with Firefox.  Number of
windows, and maybe what's in them.

Sometimes it will go a long time
without problems,  and other times
I'll get a hard wedge.  The screen
locks up.  I reboot, because I don't
have a separate terminal hooked up,
but it does come to that.

Sad.  Control of memory leakage
has long been a hallmark of Unix
and Linux.  Using the supplied
memory control routines you wonder
how the application writers get it
wrong.  But then,  I suppose Firefox
could be tight,  and the plugins are
the problem?   There are lots of them,
and who knows who wrote some of
them.

    -Bob


On Nov 1, 2007 4:45 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's been a couple of weeks now
> > since the launch,  does anyone here
> > have anything good to say about
> > Ubuntu 7.10?
> >
> > Many of the reviews have been
> > quite bullish.  I'm running
> > Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
> > far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
> > approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
> > anything either....
> >
> >
>
> I actually wrote a second review on my blog, earlier this week.
> Here's the text:
>
> So I've been using it a couple weeks, now, and I figured it was a good
> time to give it a second look.
>
> I've had to leave Compiz enabled, because without it, It becomes a
> hassle to have both Firefox open and watch videos using mplayer.
> (Firefox hogs X11's XV extension, thanks to the flash plugin. Compiz
> seems to perform the functional equivalent of providing a separate
> copy of the extension to anyone who asks for it.) As a result, I've
> learned a bit about its behavior.
>
> The alt-tab behavior is nice. I realize some of you more advanced
> folks (Including OS X users and Linux folks using experimental window
> managers as far back as 2002) have had window previews in your
> window-switching service for a while. Sure, yeah, it's a convenient
> feature if you've got multiple windows from the same app loaded. (Web
> development with Firefox would be a lot easier if I had this at work.)
> At home, that's not really an issue for me.
>
> What's really nice is how passing through the alt-tab list draws the
> window immediately to the foreground, before I let go of alt-tab.
> (FWIW, all my apps are full-screen at home, so I don't know if the
> window order is permanently adjusted as I pass through.) Now, on
> Windows, this would be a problem. Each time a portion of a window
> becomes visible, Windows sends the application a paint message to get
> it to redraw itself. At work, when my box was churning over one thing
> or another, or waiting on some silly user-global lock (Damn you Visual
> Studio, damn yooou!), I could watch the application ponderously fill
> in the window with information.
>
> In Gutsy Gibbon, with Compiz enabled, the screen contents just flip to
> the window, pre-drawn. (If I had to guess, I'd think the window never
> knew it was covered.) The screen changes quickly enough that the new
> data appears to be there right at the start of the screen's next
> vertical refresh.
>
> Also, there's a neat feature for dealing with unstable applications.
> If the application "stops responding", to steal a phrase from the
> Windows world, the window desaturates until it's wholly in grayscale.
> That way, you know why it's not doing what you thought it was doing.
> This doesn't seem to work entirely, though. I was scrolling through
> Google Reader--albeit painfully slowly--when the window desaturated. I
> hadn't stopped scrolling, and the window was still updating, but the
> window manager decided for some reason that the window had stopped
> responding. However, it corrected itself, and resaturated the window
> after I stopped rolling the scroll wheel on my mouse.
>
> However, Firefox seems to have taken a hit. It's weird. Up until a
> couple weeks ago, I never had noticeable stability problems with
> Firefox, at work or home, despite both machines being low-end (3GHz or
> 2.2GHz P4s, respectively, though the work machine has 2GB of RAM and
> the home machine only has 512MB/). In contrast, it's run slow or
> crashed three times in the last week. This is only at home, though. My
> box at work is still running strong. The obvious answer is that
> Firefox's memory leaks are likely coming into play earlier on my home
> box.
>
> And I'm still irritated that I can't play StepMania. That might change
> this weekend, though.
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From brousch at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 20:57:13 2007
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 20:57:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930711011757q3dc97ae0gd3000f54ca7cf6b9@mail.gmail.com>

I have not experienced problems with Firefox in Gutsy. I usually have two or
more instances with 3-15 tabs open in each and leave them open sometimes for
a week or more. My only plugin is Flashblock, so it may well be plugins that
are responsible for your woes.

On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've seen problems with Firefox
> under 7.04 if I leave it up long
> enough.  Seems to depend on what
> I'm doing with Firefox.  Number of
> windows, and maybe what's in them.
>
> Sometimes it will go a long time
> without problems,  and other times
> I'll get a hard wedge.  The screen
> locks up.  I reboot, because I don't
> have a separate terminal hooked up,
> but it does come to that.
>
> Sad.  Control of memory leakage
> has long been a hallmark of Unix
> and Linux.  Using the supplied
> memory control routines you wonder
> how the application writers get it
> wrong.  But then,  I suppose Firefox
> could be tight,  and the plugins are
> the problem?   There are lots of them,
> and who knows who wrote some of
> them.
>
>     -Bob
>
>
> On Nov 1, 2007 4:45 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com > wrote:
>
> > On 11/1/07, Bob Kline < bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It's been a couple of weeks now
> > > since the launch,  does anyone here
> > > have anything good to say about
> > > Ubuntu 7.10 ?
> > >
> > > Many of the reviews have been
> > > quite bullish.  I'm running
> > > Kubuntu 7.04 now,  and have so
> > > far taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
> > > approach.  But I'd hate to miss out on
> > > anything either....
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I actually wrote a second review on my blog, earlier this week.
> > Here's the text:
> >
> > So I've been using it a couple weeks, now, and I figured it was a good
> > time to give it a second look.
> >
> > I've had to leave Compiz enabled, because without it, It becomes a
> > hassle to have both Firefox open and watch videos using mplayer.
> > (Firefox hogs X11's XV extension, thanks to the flash plugin. Compiz
> > seems to perform the functional equivalent of providing a separate
> > copy of the extension to anyone who asks for it.) As a result, I've
> > learned a bit about its behavior.
> >
> > The alt-tab behavior is nice. I realize some of you more advanced
> > folks (Including OS X users and Linux folks using experimental window
> > managers as far back as 2002) have had window previews in your
> > window-switching service for a while. Sure, yeah, it's a convenient
> > feature if you've got multiple windows from the same app loaded. (Web
> > development with Firefox would be a lot easier if I had this at work.)
> > At home, that's not really an issue for me.
> >
> > What's really nice is how passing through the alt-tab list draws the
> > window immediately to the foreground, before I let go of alt-tab.
> > (FWIW, all my apps are full-screen at home, so I don't know if the
> > window order is permanently adjusted as I pass through.) Now, on
> > Windows, this would be a problem. Each time a portion of a window
> > becomes visible, Windows sends the application a paint message to get
> > it to redraw itself. At work, when my box was churning over one thing
> > or another, or waiting on some silly user-global lock (Damn you Visual
> > Studio, damn yooou!), I could watch the application ponderously fill
> > in the window with information.
> >
> > In Gutsy Gibbon, with Compiz enabled, the screen contents just flip to
> > the window, pre-drawn. (If I had to guess, I'd think the window never
> > knew it was covered.) The screen changes quickly enough that the new
> > data appears to be there right at the start of the screen's next
> > vertical refresh.
> >
> > Also, there's a neat feature for dealing with unstable applications.
> > If the application "stops responding", to steal a phrase from the
> > Windows world, the window desaturates until it's wholly in grayscale.
> > That way, you know why it's not doing what you thought it was doing.
> > This doesn't seem to work entirely, though. I was scrolling through
> > Google Reader--albeit painfully slowly--when the window desaturated. I
> > hadn't stopped scrolling, and the window was still updating, but the
> > window manager decided for some reason that the window had stopped
> > responding. However, it corrected itself, and resaturated the window
> > after I stopped rolling the scroll wheel on my mouse.
> >
> > However, Firefox seems to have taken a hit. It's weird. Up until a
> > couple weeks ago, I never had noticeable stability problems with
> > Firefox, at work or home, despite both machines being low-end (3GHz or
> > 2.2GHz P4s, respectively, though the work machine has 2GB of RAM and
> > the home machine only has 512MB/). In contrast, it's run slow or
> > crashed three times in the last week. This is only at home, though. My
> > box at work is still running strong. The obvious answer is that
> > Firefox's memory leaks are likely coming into play earlier on my home
> > box.
> >
> > And I'm still irritated that I can't play StepMania. That might change
> > this weekend, though.
> >
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From topher at wcsg.org  Thu Nov  1 21:29:40 2007
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 21:29:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>

On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Bob Kline wrote:

> I've seen problems with Firefox
> under 7.04 if I leave it up long
> enough.  Seems to depend on what
> I'm doing with Firefox.  Number of
> windows, and maybe what's in them.

Bob, just out of curiosity, why are your posts always so narrow?

Topher
Manager of Internet Services
Cornerstone University Radio

------
"I laughed, I cried, it moved me, Bob"
          		-- Larry Boy

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Thu Nov  1 21:45:24 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 21:45:24 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>

It's something I started doing
with all my e-mails.  Newspaper
columns are as narrow as they
are so people can read them
without moving their eyes.

Bottom line,  it's much faster
than trying to follow a long line
across a page.

Just a habit I got in to.

   -Bob


On Nov 1, 2007 9:29 PM, Topher <topher at wcsg.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Bob Kline wrote:
>
> > I've seen problems with Firefox
> > under 7.04 if I leave it up long
> > enough.  Seems to depend on what
> > I'm doing with Firefox.  Number of
> > windows, and maybe what's in them.
>
> Bob, just out of curiosity, why are your posts always so narrow?
>
> Topher
> Manager of Internet Services
> Cornerstone University Radio
>
> ------
> "I laughed, I cried, it moved me, Bob"
>                        -- Larry Boy
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Nov  1 23:29:21 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:29:21 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472A9991.80404@ameritech.net>

Bob Kline wrote:
started doing
> with all my e-mails.  Newspaper
> columns are as narrow as they
> are so people can read them
> without moving their eyes. 

Moving up and down is motion just as much as back and forth is.

> Bottom line,  it's much faster
> than trying to follow a long line
> across a page.
> 

W
i
t
h

i
n

l
i
m
i
t
s
,

m
a
y
b
e
.

Generally I prefer longer lines, depending on the situation. I have
encountered this "less movement" argument before and I'm frankly puzzled
by it. Not only is up to down just as much "motion" as left to right.
But I would argue that reading more, shorter, lines involves more, and
more complex, eye movement. To be specific: reading one long line, from
left to right, is a single fluid motion; reading several shorter lines
entails just as much left to right movement, PLUS there is the downward
and right to left movement, and in addition to that each "new line"
entails the mental effort of finding the beginning of the CORRECT line.

Granted, this last argument cuts both ways. The longer the line, the
more effort is required to find the beginning of the following line.
Conversely the shorter the lines, the more often the reader has to make
this effort. Invariably a compromise must be made, and where to make it
is, IMHO, both situational and subjective.

By situational, I mean both the content of the text, and where it is to
be displayed or printed. I think the reason newspaper columns are
printed the way they are has as much to do with over all page lay out:
such considerations as which and how many articles are "above the fold",
and other placement considerations, as to do with the simple readability
of the column.

When it comes to the command line I go to great lengths (pun accidental,
but I'll take it) to avoid line wrap. This applies to source code
generally, but especially command lines. Maybe it's my own limited
"attention span band width", but when I'm trying to mentally parse the
meaning of complicated code I find it distracting to have to "hold that
idea" while my attention is diverted to finding the line continuation.
Of course the notion of "phrasing" borrowed from music helps in this regard.

Subjective is of course subjective. I find general text reading to be
most comfortable at around 72-80 characters per line. And here I was
about to point out that the rfc standard for mail was 72. I was about to
be wrong :) I just double checked the Netiquette Guidelines in rfc1855
<http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html> and it says:

>     - Limit line length to fewer than 65 characters and end a line
>       with a carriage return.

I still prefer 72-80, but it's not much different.

Your narrow posts are well within the rfc,
b
u
t

t
h
e
n

a
g
a
i
n
,

s
o

i
s

t
h
i
s
.

You are, of course, free to post as you like. I won't complain. But If
you want input on the subject I, for one, prefer lines around 65-80
character lines.

Raymond McLaughlin



From driveray at ameritech.net  Thu Nov  1 23:37:01 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:37:01 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d97e56fa0711011352x236c924dj10bac4f0beaeb0aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d97e56fa0711011352x236c924dj10bac4f0beaeb0aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472A9B5D.6070707@ameritech.net>

Matt Maxted wrote:
> I have upgraded a Lenovo Thinkpad x60s from Feisty to Gusty.  Everything
> went well with the exception of vmware server and display settings.  I
> had to recompile vmware to their latest release. 

Did you actually compile from source, or are you talking about
re-running vmware-config.pl ?

Raymond McLaughlin

From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Nov  2 00:12:53 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:12:53 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472AA3C5.4050702@ameritech.net>

Bob Kline wrote:
> I've seen problems with Firefox
> under 7.04 if I leave it up long
> enough.  Seems to depend on what
> I'm doing with Firefox.  Number of
> windows, and maybe what's in them.
> 
> Sometimes it will go a long time
> without problems,  and other times
> I'll get a hard wedge.  The screen
> locks up.  I reboot, because I don't
> have a separate terminal hooked up,
> but it does come to that.

Do you know about using <Ctl>+<Alt>+<F1>
to switch to a real, text mode, console? And failing that
<Ctrl>+<Alt>+<Backspace> will kill/restart your grapic display, still
better than rebooting the whole machine.
No offense if you do, some people don't. In many instances a program can
lock up the graphical display, but you can still get to a text console
to kill the rogue process(es). Still there are times when a program
grabs the console so tightly that <Ctrl>+<Alt>+<Nothing> works.

I had this happen this afternoon while running adobe acrobat reader
through an ssh tunnel. It's in cases like this that a second computer is
handy so you can ssh in to fix things, which is what I did.

> Sad.  Control of memory leakage
> has long been a hallmark of Unix
> and Linux.

Unix and Linux, as opposed to what? Actually the whole mozilla family of
browsers are notorious for leaking memory regardless of the platform,
although some blame must be assigned to the OS for permitting it.

Actually, in some cases, it could be the display driver and/or the
windowmanager/ desktop environment. Generally I think that if killing
all instances of the application and then restarting it clears things up
then I would say it was a case of the application "fouling it's own
nest". In my experience periodically (every couple of days, depending on
usage) closing all instances of firefox helps keep these problems at bay.

> Using the supplied
> memory control routines you wonder
> how the application writers get it
> wrong.  But then,  I suppose Firefox
> could be tight,  and the plugins are
> the problem?

The flash-player plugin is notorious for this. I also sometimes find
that flash "enhanced" web pages will grab and hold my sound card so that
I get "device busy" errors when I try to play music or movies. For these
and other reasons I recommend the flashblock addin.

Raymond McLaughlin

>   There are lots of them,
> and who knows who wrote some of
> them.
> 
>     -Bob

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 00:22:48 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 00:22:48 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <472AA3C5.4050702@ameritech.net>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<472AA3C5.4050702@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711012122h5a991fd4j8a6e9f621b7bc31a@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 2, 2007 12:12 AM, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:

> Bob Kline wrote:
>
> zilla family of
> browsers are notorious for leaking memory regardless of the platform,
> although some blame must be assigned to the OS for permitting it.
>
>
> > Sad.  Control of memory leakage
> > has long been a hallmark of Unix
> > and Linux.
>
> Unix and Linux, as opposed to what?
>
> Raymond McLaughlin
>

Windoz.

    -Bob
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From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Nov  2 00:20:33 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:20:33 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930711011757q3dc97ae0gd3000f54ca7cf6b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<d92a2d930711011757q3dc97ae0gd3000f54ca7cf6b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472AA591.9040408@ameritech.net>

Ben Rousch wrote:
> I have not experienced problems with Firefox in Gutsy. I usually have
> two or more instances with 3-15 tabs open in each and leave them open
> sometimes for a week or more. My only plugin is Flashblock,

Your ONLY plugin???
If you don't have the flashplayer plugin installed, what does the
flashblock plugin do for you?

> so it may well be plugins that are responsible for your woes.
> 

>         --
>         :wq


From jtr at jrichards.org  Fri Nov  2 08:06:46 2007
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:06:46 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <472A9991.80404@ameritech.net>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<472A9991.80404@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 11:29:21PM -0400, Raymond McLaughlin wrote:
> Bob Kline wrote:
> started doing
> > with all my e-mails.  Newspaper
> > columns are as narrow as they
> > are so people can read them
> > without moving their eyes. 
> 
> Moving up and down is motion just as much as back and forth is.
> 
> > Bottom line,  it's much faster
> > than trying to follow a long line
> > across a page.
> > 
[snip]
> 
> Generally I prefer longer lines, depending on the situation. I have
> encountered this "less movement" argument before and I'm frankly puzzled
> by it. Not only is up to down just as much "motion" as left to right.
> But I would argue that reading more, shorter, lines involves more, and
> more complex, eye movement. To be specific: reading one long line, from
> left to right, is a single fluid motion; reading several shorter lines
> entails just as much left to right movement, PLUS there is the downward
> and right to left movement, and in addition to that each "new line"
> entails the mental effort of finding the beginning of the CORRECT line.
> 
> Granted, this last argument cuts both ways. The longer the line, the
> more effort is required to find the beginning of the following line.
> Conversely the shorter the lines, the more often the reader has to make
> this effort. Invariably a compromise must be made, and where to make it
> is, IMHO, both situational and subjective.

Bob is correct.  Shorter lines such as his are easier to read on a printed
page.  Ever wonder why Bibles are printed with two narrow columns rather than
like most other books?  It is for this reason: it is easier to read.  It
makes sense that the eye has less up and down movement with longer lines but
the reality is that most people have a much more difficult time moving their
eyes back to the beginning of the next line if it is several inches away from
the end of the previous line.  So the reality is that the extra eye movements
are compensated by a lack of "getting lost" trying to find the next line.

[snip]
> Your narrow posts are well within the rfc,
> b
> u
> t
> 
> t
> h
> e
> n
> 
> a
> g
> a
> i
> n
> ,
> 
> s
> o
> 
> i
> s
> 
> t
> h
> i
> s
> .
> 
> You are, of course, free to post as you like. I won't complain. But If
> you want input on the subject I, for one, prefer lines around 65-80
> character lines.

Heh.  If people posted like *that*, methinks I would unsubscribe.  :-)
-- 
john-thomas
------
Grace is a provision for men who are so fallen that they cannot lift
the axe of justice, so corrupt that they cannot change their own
natures, so averse to God that they cannot turn to Him, so blind that
they cannot see Him, so deaf that they cannot hear Him, and so dead
that He Himself must open their graves and lift them into resurrection.
G.S. Bishop

From brousch at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 08:13:47 2007
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:13:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <472AA591.9040408@ameritech.net>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<d92a2d930711011757q3dc97ae0gd3000f54ca7cf6b9@mail.gmail.com>
	<472AA591.9040408@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930711020513s36750a14k528bd0269b4a23a8@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> Ben Rousch wrote:
> > I have not experienced problems with Firefox in Gutsy. I usually have
> > two or more instances with 3-15 tabs open in each and leave them open
> > sometimes for a week or more. My only plugin is Flashblock,
>
> Your ONLY plugin???
> If you don't have the flashplayer plugin installed, what does the
> flashblock plugin do for you?


You are correct. I got plugins confused with Firefox Add-ons.  Flashblock is
the only one listed in Firefox Add-ons, but by looking at my
~/.mozilla/firefox/pluginreg.dat I see a few more (Flash, Totem, and Java).
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From brousch at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 08:23:29 2007
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:23:29 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<472A9991.80404@ameritech.net> <20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930711020523v352e7f0bv30d42a65d6bcc058@mail.gmail.com>

I prefer to let the email recipient handle line length rather than try to
guess what he wants while I'm writing. If you want lines 65 characters long,
then set your email client to wrap it there. If you want lines that span all
available space (like I do), then maximize the reading area. I've 1600x1200
here, so I don't want a 2" wide column of words with 8" of whitespace next
to it! Also it is annoying if you're reading at 50 columns and your sender
has new lines every 65 columns so you get a normal line followed by a short
line. Are there any modern email clients that won't wrap text automatically?
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From adderd at kkmfg.com  Fri Nov  2 08:24:44 2007
From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 08:24:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>	<472A9991.80404@ameritech.net>
	<20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <472B170C.6050901@kkmfg.com>

john-thomas richards wrote:
>
> Bob is correct.  Shorter lines such as his are easier to read on a printed
> page.  Ever wonder why Bibles are printed with two narrow columns rather than
> like most other books?  It is for this reason: it is easier to read.  It
> makes sense that the eye has less up and down movement with longer lines but
> the reality is that most people have a much more difficult time moving their
> eyes back to the beginning of the next line if it is several inches away from
> the end of the previous line.  So the reality is that the extra eye movements
> are compensated by a lack of "getting lost" trying to find the next line.
>
> [snip]
>   
Umm... No... try again... Bob's posts are way harder to read. Take your 
post for instance. That's a nice, easy to read line length. His posts 
are like reading an obituary. The number of characters across a line in 
a paperback novel is really a decent compromise between long and short 
line length. Too short is just as annoying as READING ALL CAPS.

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 08:37:32 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:37:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <472B170C.6050901@kkmfg.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<472A9991.80404@ameritech.net> <20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>
	<472B170C.6050901@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <81e08d920711020537p6e4e5636g49a426bbbb88ef8a@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Collin Kidder <adderd at kkmfg.com> wrote:
>
> john-thomas richards wrote:
> >
> > Bob is correct.  Shorter lines such as his are easier to read on a
> printed
> > page.  Ever wonder why Bibles are printed with two narrow columns rather
> than
> > like most other books?  It is for this reason: it is easier to read.  It
> > makes sense that the eye has less up and down movement with longer lines
> but
> > the reality is that most people have a much more difficult time moving
> their
> > eyes back to the beginning of the next line if it is several inches away
> from
> > the end of the previous line.  So the reality is that the extra eye
> movements
> > are compensated by a lack of "getting lost" trying to find the next
> line.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> Umm... No... try again... Bob's posts are way harder to read. Take your
> post for instance. That's a nice, easy to read line length. His posts
> are like reading an obituary. The number of characters across a line in
> a paperback novel is really a decent compromise between long and short
> line length. Too short is just as annoying as READING ALL CAPS.


The writing style should be suitable for the intended audience. Newspapers
have columns, to maximize the amount of content and structure the flow of
text around captions and pictures.
Nobody wants to read paragraph that has only one or two words in it, with
others having been mangled by hyphenations. Like wise nobody wants to read a
line that has too many words in it.
But hey, I went to Grand Rapids Public, so I may not be the one to say which
is best.

When coding, I tend to really over do the format, double spaces, camelBack,
2 space indentation, and I like my comments to be written in Arabic with
butter and jam, so that I can really obfuscate my program. That last part
was a complete dramatization.




_______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny
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From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 08:40:28 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:40:28 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
Message-ID: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>

All this jazz about writing got me thinking about programming practice and
coding styles

What about you?
How do you code?
What's your favorite editor.
I like Kate. Simple, fast, opens remote files, great syntax highlighting,
though I wish it would utilize the html tag completion that we see in
Quanta.
I've installed Eclipse, but found it to be more difficult than it was worth,
cause everything revolves around java.
I tried Bluefish, but I didn't like that one either. Too much overhead.
I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to scroll, and
I don't get that with vim.

-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny
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From topher at wcsg.org  Fri Nov  2 08:42:02 2007
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:42:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <472B170C.6050901@kkmfg.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<472A9991.80404@ameritech.net> <20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>
	<472B170C.6050901@kkmfg.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711020841430.3830@boktor>

Sorry Bob, I didn't mean to rain on your parade, I was just curious.  :)

Topher
Manager of Internet Services
Cornerstone University Radio

------
"Usually people believe their motives and emotions are known to themselves
alone, yet few things remain concealed from an intelligent observer with
time to see, to consider, and to speculate."
 			-- Louis L'Amour, Guns of the Timberlands

From brousch at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 08:53:54 2007
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:53:54 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930711020553m1197fecaped6fa17c224f70eb@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Justin Denick <justin.denick at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> All this jazz about writing got me thinking about programming practice and
> coding styles
>
> What about you?
> How do you code?
> What's your favorite editor.


When I was writing PHP, I liked gPHPEdit.
Now that I'm writing Java, I'm in love with Netbeans. The GUI builder is
fantastic.
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From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 08:58:02 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 08:58:02 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711020558g121bbb16xc6a2c7b8adec1161@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Justin Denick <justin.denick at gmail.com> wrote:
> All this jazz about writing got me thinking about programming practice and
> coding styles
>
> What about you?
>  How do you code?

By my self, getting another coder's eyes as needed.

>  What's your favorite editor.
>  I like Kate. Simple, fast, opens remote files, great syntax highlighting,
> though I wish it would utilize the html tag completion that we see in
> Quanta.
> I've installed Eclipse, but found it to be more difficult than it was worth,
> cause everything revolves around java.
> I tried Bluefish, but I didn't like that one either. Too much overhead.
> I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to scroll, and
> I don't get that with vim.

On Linux, I've primarily used vim or JEdit, though I gave KDevelop a
shot years ago.  For PHP, HTML and Javascript work, I use JEdit,
regardless of OS.

-- 
:wq

From ben at eavey.com  Fri Nov  2 09:01:16 2007
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:01:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>

Justin Denick wrote:
> I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to scroll, 
> and I don't get that with vim.

You don't?  Weird...  works for me.

-Ben

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 09:21:32 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:21:32 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:
>
> Justin Denick wrote:
> > I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to scroll,
> > and I don't get that with vim.
>
> You don't?  Weird...  works for me.


With a mouse or the keyboard?

-Ben
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny
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From ben at eavey.com  Fri Nov  2 09:35:04 2007
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:35:04 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>

Justin Denick wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11/2/07, *Benjamin Eavey* <ben at eavey.com <mailto:ben at eavey.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Justin Denick wrote:
>      > I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to
>     scroll,
>      > and I don't get that with vim.
> 
>     You don't?  Weird...  works for me.
> 
> With a mouse or the keyboard?
> 
>     -Ben


Both.  I don't generally use the mouse, but I can.  Just tried it to 
make sure I was remembering correctly.

-Ben

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 09:50:26 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 09:50:26 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:
>
> Justin Denick wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 11/2/07, *Benjamin Eavey* <ben at eavey.com <mailto:ben at eavey.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >     Justin Denick wrote:
> >      > I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to
> >     scroll,
> >      > and I don't get that with vim.
> >
> >     You don't?  Weird...  works for me.
> >
> > With a mouse or the keyboard?
> >
> >     -Ben
>
>
> Both.  I don't generally use the mouse, but I can.  Just tried it to
> make sure I was remembering correctly.


Hmm, for the past 4 years I just thought that vim was anti-mouse. I guess, I
have to turn something on.

-Ben
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny
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From ben at eavey.com  Fri Nov  2 09:59:19 2007
From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:59:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>	<81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>	<472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472B2D37.6040209@eavey.com>

Justin Denick wrote:
> 
> Hmm, for the past 4 years I just thought that vim was anti-mouse. I 
> guess, I have to turn something on.

Try this in your vimrc:  set mouse=a

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 10:03:44 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:03:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <472B2D37.6040209@eavey.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B2D37.6040209@eavey.com>
Message-ID: <81e08d920711020703v54351185h9ce81d04846f5b12@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:
>
> Justin Denick wrote:
> >
> > Hmm, for the past 4 years I just thought that vim was anti-mouse. I
> > guess, I have to turn something on.
>
> Try this in your vimrc:  set mouse=a


Thanks after, reading your post, I poked around the :help and found that
same command :-)
What a gem!

_______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny
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From topher at wcsg.org  Fri Nov  2 10:13:26 2007
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:13:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021009020.3830@boktor>

> Hmm, for the past 4 years I just thought that vim was anti-mouse. I 
> guess, I have to turn something on.

There's vim, and then there's gvim, which is a GUI version.  gvmi runs in 
windows as well.

Topher
Manager of Internet Services
Cornerstone University Radio

------
"How long is a girl a child? She is a child, then one morning you wake up
and she's a woman, and a dozen different people of whom you recognize none."
                         -- Louis L'Amour, Bendigo Shafter

From jtr at jrichards.org  Fri Nov  2 10:10:59 2007
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:10:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071102141059.GA4756@jrichards.org>

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:50:26AM -0400, Justin Denick wrote:
> On 11/2/07, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:
> > Justin Denick wrote:
> > > On 11/2/07, *Benjamin Eavey* <ben at eavey.com <mailto:ben at eavey.com>>
> > wrote:
> > >     Justin Denick wrote:
> > >      > I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to
> > >     scroll,
> > >      > and I don't get that with vim.
> > >
> > >     You don't?  Weird...  works for me.
> > >
> > > With a mouse or the keyboard?
> >
> > Both.  I don't generally use the mouse, but I can.  Just tried it to
> > make sure I was remembering correctly.
> 
> Hmm, for the past 4 years I just thought that vim was anti-mouse. I guess, I
> have to turn something on.

For the past ten years I thought it was the vim *user* that was anti-mouse.
:-)

Years ago when I was in the trucking maintenance industry, we hired a
consultant to make some changes to our in-house Informix database.  This guy
had about ten different telnet sessions opened up and was editing two or three
files in each session with vi (not vim; old SCO UNIX box).  He was accessing
the server from a Windows machine.  I do not think he touched the mouse once.
Literally.  This guy knew more about vi than anyone I have ever seen.  He was
amazing.  He was not writing a lot of 4GL code, but he was editing a *ton* of
it.  I don't think I know a quarter of the vi commands he knows and I have
been using Linux & vim for over ten years.  His hands never left the keyboard.
-- 
john-thomas
------
Lots of people think they're charitable if they give away their old clothes
and things they don't want.  It isn't charity to give away things you want
to get rid of and it isn't a sacrifice to do things you don't mind doing.
Myrtle Reed, author (1874-1911)

From matt.maxted at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 10:23:07 2007
From: matt.maxted at gmail.com (Matt Maxted)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:23:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <472A9B5D.6070707@ameritech.net>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d97e56fa0711011352x236c924dj10bac4f0beaeb0aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<472A9B5D.6070707@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <d97e56fa0711020723n3f0fe29by12bd6b9d666e575@mail.gmail.com>

I recompiled from source after downloading the newest version of vmware
server

On 11/1/07, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> Matt Maxted wrote:
> > I have upgraded a Lenovo Thinkpad x60s from Feisty to Gusty.  Everything
> > went well with the exception of vmware server and display settings.  I
> > had to recompile vmware to their latest release.
>
> Did you actually compile from source, or are you talking about
> re-running vmware-config.pl ?
>
> Raymond McLaughlin
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From matt.maxted at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 10:23:07 2007
From: matt.maxted at gmail.com (Matt Maxted)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 10:23:07 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu 7.10
In-Reply-To: <472A9B5D.6070707@ameritech.net>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d97e56fa0711011352x236c924dj10bac4f0beaeb0aa@mail.gmail.com>
	<472A9B5D.6070707@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <d97e56fa0711020723n3f0fe29by12bd6b9d666e575@mail.gmail.com>

I recompiled from source after downloading the newest version of vmware
server

On 11/1/07, Raymond McLaughlin <driveray at ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> Matt Maxted wrote:
> > I have upgraded a Lenovo Thinkpad x60s from Feisty to Gusty.  Everything
> > went well with the exception of vmware server and display settings.  I
> > had to recompile vmware to their latest release.
>
> Did you actually compile from source, or are you talking about
> re-running vmware-config.pl ?
>
> Raymond McLaughlin
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 11:02:16 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:02:16 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711020841430.3830@boktor>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<472A9991.80404@ameritech.net> <20071102120646.GA2956@jrichards.org>
	<472B170C.6050901@kkmfg.com> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711020841430.3830@boktor>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711020802q363c12ffi147e8a905f9bd900@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 2, 2007 8:42 AM, Topher <topher at wcsg.org> wrote:

> Sorry Bob, I didn't mean to rain on your parade, I was just curious.  :)
>
> Topher
> Manager of Internet Services
> Cornerstone University Radio
>
>

No problem.

    -Bob
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From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 11:29:50 2007
From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:29:50 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <20071102141059.GA4756@jrichards.org>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B1F9C.5060806@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020621m71f2b649s5566584247431ef4@mail.gmail.com>
	<472B2788.6080603@eavey.com>
	<81e08d920711020650r4a50756en8df6cdeae60786a9@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071102141059.GA4756@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <cea1322a0711020829l963f01fmaa1e731546225220@mail.gmail.com>

Vim and gVim on linux and windows. never actually tried emacs

On 11/2/07, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 09:50:26AM -0400, Justin Denick wrote:
> > On 11/2/07, Benjamin Eavey <ben at eavey.com> wrote:
> > > Justin Denick wrote:
> > > > On 11/2/07, *Benjamin Eavey* <ben at eavey.com <mailto:ben at eavey.com>>
> > > wrote:
> > > >     Justin Denick wrote:
> > > >      > I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to
> > > >     scroll,
> > > >      > and I don't get that with vim.
> > > >
> > > >     You don't?  Weird...  works for me.
> > > >
> > > > With a mouse or the keyboard?
> > >
> > > Both.  I don't generally use the mouse, but I can.  Just tried it to
> > > make sure I was remembering correctly.
> >
> > Hmm, for the past 4 years I just thought that vim was anti-mouse. I guess, I
> > have to turn something on.
>
> For the past ten years I thought it was the vim *user* that was anti-mouse.
> :-)
>
> Years ago when I was in the trucking maintenance industry, we hired a
> consultant to make some changes to our in-house Informix database.  This guy
> had about ten different telnet sessions opened up and was editing two or three
> files in each session with vi (not vim; old SCO UNIX box).  He was accessing
> the server from a Windows machine.  I do not think he touched the mouse once.
> Literally.  This guy knew more about vi than anyone I have ever seen.  He was
> amazing.  He was not writing a lot of 4GL code, but he was editing a *ton* of
> it.  I don't think I know a quarter of the vi commands he knows and I have
> been using Linux & vim for over ten years.  His hands never left the keyboard.
> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> Lots of people think they're charitable if they give away their old clothes
> and things they don't want.  It isn't charity to give away things you want
> to get rid of and it isn't a sacrifice to do things you don't mind doing.
> Myrtle Reed, author (1874-1911)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>

From driveray at ameritech.net  Fri Nov  2 11:41:19 2007
From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin)
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 11:41:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <472B451F.8000704@ameritech.net>

Justin Denick wrote:
> All this jazz about writing got me thinking about programming practice
> and coding styles
> 
> What about you?
> How do you code?
> What's your favorite editor.
> I like Kate. Simple, fast, opens remote files, great syntax
> highlighting, though I wish it would utilize the html tag completion
> that we see in Quanta.
> I've installed Eclipse, but found it to be more difficult than it was
> worth, cause everything revolves around java.
> I tried Bluefish, but I didn't like that one either. Too much overhead.
> I used to use vim exclusively, but I like having the ability to scroll,
> and I don't get that with vim.
> 
> -- 
> In vino veritas.
>         [In wine there is truth.]
>                 -- Pliny

I like vim, but not vi, though I can use it. My favorite "simple" editor
in joe. I used it for my first couple of years on the Linux learning curve.

From jjfoerch at earthlink.net  Fri Nov  2 12:20:47 2007
From: jjfoerch at earthlink.net (John J Foerch)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:20:47 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG]  Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18219.20063.853717.864062@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

Justin Denick writes:
 > All this jazz about writing got me thinking about programming practice and
 > coding styles
 > 
 > What about you?
 > How do you code?
 > What's your favorite editor.

Editors--a favorite topic!

I use Emacs with Vi[m]-style key bindings.  I consider Emacs to be, in
general, for all practical purposes, the best program.  Period.  Yet I
have never liked Emacs' default key bindings, so over the years I have
tried many different bindings in Emacs.  This year, for unrelated
reasons, I decided to learn Vim.  I really liked Vim's style of modal
editing, because in command-mode, all the unmodified alphanumeric keys
have useful functions bound to them, as opposed to always being
"self-insert".  I particularly love vim's `dot' command (.).  Still, I
don't see myself switching over to Vim, because Emacs is such an
infinitely more useful program for all kinds of stuff other than
text-editing.  So I use the Emacs packages VIPER, Vimpulse,
Viper-In-More-Modes, and many, many of my own customizations to create
an editing environment that I call "best of three worlds"--emacs, vi,
and vim.

--John

From topher at wcsg.org  Fri Nov  2 12:51:26 2007
From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 12:51:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>

> What about you?
> How do you code?
> What's your favorite editor.

I've been a vim guy for about 10 years.  I used Pico before that. At work 
I code alone, with music going loudly most times.

At home I code in the living room on my laptop, while my wife watches some 
sporting event or another.

Topher
Manager of Internet Services
Cornerstone University Radio

------
"Seems to me a man has trouble enough in this world without borrowing more
with careless words."
                         -- Louis L'Amour, Mojave Crossing

From fusion at darktech.org  Fri Nov  2 13:41:18 2007
From: fusion at darktech.org (Alexander Grotewohl)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:41:18 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
Message-ID: <20071102174118.GE21477@atlantis>

I use FTE.. Kind of a remnant from when I used to use OS/2..
Surprisingly though, even though it's "The Folding Text Editor", I've
never been much interested in folding in general.. It's a novelty imo..

And I just noticed I'm writing this email in FTE.. <g>

cheers :)

-- 
Alexander Grotewohl
http://cfbbs.net/

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 12:51:26PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> > What about you?
> > How do you code?
> > What's your favorite editor.
> 
> I've been a vim guy for about 10 years.  I used Pico before that. At work 
> I code alone, with music going loudly most times.
> 
> At home I code in the living room on my laptop, while my wife watches some 
> sporting event or another.
> 
> Topher
> Manager of Internet Services
> Cornerstone University Radio
> 
> ------
> "Seems to me a man has trouble enough in this world without borrowing more
> with careless words."
>                          -- Louis L'Amour, Mojave Crossing
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From flanderb at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 13:45:39 2007
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:45:39 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
Message-ID: <e8898d550711021045k3b8660cdi15731fb54b41b027@mail.gmail.com>

Favorite Music:
I like coding while listening to "Sigur Ros" or "Explosions in the sky".

Favorite Editor:
Java - Eclipse
Scripting languages(Ruby, Perl, Python etc):
Linux - jEdit, Kate, vim
Windows - Crimson Editor, jEdit, Vim

How do I code?
Very poorly :) and not enough.  I love it, but the job doesn't allow
me to do much, and I am too busy at home right now.

Favorite Place:
The ratty old recliner in the living room with the laptop on my lap.

On 11/2/07, Topher <topher at wcsg.org> wrote:
> > What about you?
> > How do you code?
> > What's your favorite editor.
>
> I've been a vim guy for about 10 years.  I used Pico before that. At work
> I code alone, with music going loudly most times.
>
> At home I code in the living room on my laptop, while my wife watches some
> sporting event or another.
>
> Topher
> Manager of Internet Services
> Cornerstone University Radio
>
> ------
> "Seems to me a man has trouble enough in this world without borrowing more
> with careless words."
>                          -- Louis L'Amour, Mojave Crossing
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From jtr at jrichards.org  Fri Nov  2 13:51:19 2007
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:51:19 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
Message-ID: <20071102175118.GB7457@jrichards.org>

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 12:51:26PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> > What about you?
> > How do you code?
> > What's your favorite editor.
> 
> I've been a vim guy for about 10 years.  I used Pico before that. At work 
> I code alone, with music going loudly most times.

It has never occurred to me before now, but I have never used a *nix text
editor other than vi/vim.  About fifteen years ago I cut my teeth on a SCO
UNIX box using vi.  In Linux it has always been vim.  I tried pico briefly
but it did not "feel" right, after having used vim so much.  Having to use
Outlook at work, I often look at my screen in confusion wondering why in the
world my editor put ":x" in the middle of my email.

> At home I code in the living room on my laptop, while my wife watches some 
> sporting event or another.

Heh.  That is funny.  If I didn't know you, I would think you were lying
about having a wife.  Geek.  ;-)
-- 
john-thomas
------
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Voltaire (1694-1778)

From timschmidt at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 13:59:34 2007
From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 13:59:34 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <20071102175118.GB7457@jrichards.org>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
	<20071102175118.GB7457@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0711021059nd51d7b2n80cbb2fce4764c4a@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 2, 2007 1:51 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> Heh.  That is funny.  If I didn't know you, I would think you were lying
> about having a wife.  Geek.  ;-)

He is...  the man you know (and presumably the woman) was hired via a
craigslist ad.

;)

--tim

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 14:03:13 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 14:03:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Editors
In-Reply-To: <20071102175118.GB7457@jrichards.org>
References: <81e08d920711020540j549d259nb49e95fb04138e13@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711021250150.3830@boktor>
	<20071102175118.GB7457@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711021103o59cbce91v2bee91d5fbd6fb4c@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 12:51:26PM -0400, Topher wrote:
> > > What about you?
> > > How do you code?
> > > What's your favorite editor.
> >
> > I've been a vim guy for about 10 years.  I used Pico before that. At work
> > I code alone, with music going loudly most times.
>
> Having to use Outlook at work, I often look at my screen in confusion wondering why in
> the world my editor put ":x" in the middle of my email.

I used to have that problem with GMail.  So I set my signature as a
reminder. :-)

-- 
:wq

From rlauzon at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 15:05:41 2007
From: rlauzon at gmail.com (Ron Lauzon)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:05:41 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fa2295c0711021205n3453ca8av7ef4d85c1462735b@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's something I started doing
> with all my e-mails.  Newspaper
> columns are as narrow as they
> are so people can read them
> without moving their eyes.

I thought that you were just using a VIC20 to surf the web.  8-)

-- 
Ron Lauzon - rlauzon at acm dot org
   Homepage: http://7lauzon.home.comcast.net/
   Weblog: http://ronsapartment.blogspot.com/

   DNRC: Lord of All Things That Are Fattening

   "To be sure, conservative radio talk show hosts have a built-in
   audience unavailable to liberals: People driving cars to some
   sort of job." - Ann Coulter

Microsoft Free since July 06, 2001
Running Mandrake Linux 2007

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 15:19:13 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:19:13 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <fa2295c0711021205n3453ca8av7ef4d85c1462735b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<fa2295c0711021205n3453ca8av7ef4d85c1462735b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711021219o4885a094g80c68895b5f214fe@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,  ASCII browsers are fast!

Useless,  but fast...

    -Bob


On Nov 2, 2007 3:05 PM, Ron Lauzon <rlauzon at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/1/07, Bob Kline <bob.kline at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's something I started doing
> > with all my e-mails.  Newspaper
> > columns are as narrow as they
> > are so people can read them
> > without moving their eyes.
>
> I thought that you were just using a VIC20 to surf the web.  8-)
>
> --
> Ron Lauzon - rlauzon at acm dot org
>   Homepage: http://7lauzon.home.comcast.net/
>   Weblog: http://ronsapartment.blogspot.com/
>
>   DNRC: Lord of All Things That Are Fattening
>
>   "To be sure, conservative radio talk show hosts have a built-in
>   audience unavailable to liberals: People driving cars to some
>   sort of job." - Ann Coulter
>
> Microsoft Free since July 06, 2001
> Running Mandrake Linux 2007
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From jtr at jrichards.org  Fri Nov  2 15:24:44 2007
From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:24:44 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711021219o4885a094g80c68895b5f214fe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<fa2295c0711021205n3453ca8av7ef4d85c1462735b@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711021219o4885a094g80c68895b5f214fe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071102192444.GA8953@jrichards.org>

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 03:19:13PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote:
> Hey,  ASCII browsers are fast!
> 
> Useless,  but fast...

Useless?  Hey, now, I use elinks almost as often as I use Firefox.  It even
has tabbed browsing!

[snip]
-- 
john-thomas
------
In a perfect union the man and woman are like a strung bow. Who is to
say whether the string bends the bow, or the bow tightens the string?
Cyril Connolly, critic and editor (1903-1974)

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 15:36:37 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:36:37 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <20071102192444.GA8953@jrichards.org>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<fa2295c0711021205n3453ca8av7ef4d85c1462735b@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711021219o4885a094g80c68895b5f214fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071102192444.GA8953@jrichards.org>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711021236k50d6ffdbmc37b55c926511aed@mail.gmail.com>

Just a little gasoline on the fire.  :-)

    -Bob


On Nov 2, 2007 3:24 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 03:19:13PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote:
> > Hey,  ASCII browsers are fast!
> >
> > Useless,  but fast...
>
> Useless?  Hey, now, I use elinks almost as often as I use Firefox.  It
> even
> has tabbed browsing!
>
> [snip]
> --
> john-thomas
> ------
> In a perfect union the man and woman are like a strung bow. Who is to
> say whether the string bends the bow, or the bow tightens the string?
> Cyril Connolly, critic and editor (1903-1974)
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From nicholas at iserv.net  Fri Nov  2 15:46:39 2007
From: nicholas at iserv.net (Mike Nicholas / The Personal Connection)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:46:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <d181b7d70711021236k50d6ffdbmc37b55c926511aed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<fa2295c0711021205n3453ca8av7ef4d85c1462735b@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711021219o4885a094g80c68895b5f214fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071102192444.GA8953@jrichards.org>
	<d181b7d70711021236k50d6ffdbmc37b55c926511aed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29202.66.202.195.43.1194032799.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>

At least we didn't debate top posting or bottom posting....

marshmellows anyone?

Mike

On Fri, November 2, 2007 3:36 pm, Bob Kline wrote:
> Just a little gasoline on the fire.  :-)
>
>     -Bob
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2007 3:24 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 03:19:13PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote:
>> > Hey,  ASCII browsers are fast!
>> >
>> > Useless,  but fast...
>>
>> Useless?  Hey, now, I use elinks almost as often as I use Firefox.  It
>> even
>> has tabbed browsing!
>>
>> [snip]
>> --
>> john-thomas
>> ------
>> In a perfect union the man and woman are like a strung bow. Who is to
>> say whether the string bends the bow, or the bow tightens the string?
>> Cyril Connolly, critic and editor (1903-1974)
>> _______________________________________________
>> grlug mailing list
>> grlug at grlug.org
>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


-- 
Mike Nicholas
The Personal Connection
Computer Consultants
Kalamazoo, Michigan USA


From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 16:18:59 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 16:18:59 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <29202.66.202.195.43.1194032799.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
References: <d181b7d70711011315v27884d37pd972d9522f3b8bb3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450711011345o29583aagb19e6d89a2c41995@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711011406g3ac0ef2ev1b35a94a067f84ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0711012129340.24918@boktor>
	<d181b7d70711011845q2f79f2b6m9bf93f19f650e22@mail.gmail.com>
	<fa2295c0711021205n3453ca8av7ef4d85c1462735b@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70711021219o4885a094g80c68895b5f214fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071102192444.GA8953@jrichards.org>
	<d181b7d70711021236k50d6ffdbmc37b55c926511aed@mail.gmail.com>
	<29202.66.202.195.43.1194032799.squirrel@webmail.iserv.net>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711021318n420adbdkfeba412a8847b987@mail.gmail.com>

On 11/2/07, Mike Nicholas / The Personal Connection <nicholas at iserv.net> wrote:
> At least we didn't debate top posting or bottom posting....
>
> marshmellows anyone?
>
> Mike
>
> On Fri, November 2, 2007 3:36 pm, Bob Kline wrote:
> > Just a little gasoline on the fire.  :-)
> >
> >     -Bob
> >
> >
> > On Nov 2, 2007 3:24 PM, john-thomas richards <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 03:19:13PM -0400, Bob Kline wrote:
> >> > Hey,  ASCII browsers are fast!
> >> >
> >> > Useless,  but fast...
> >>
> >> Useless?  Hey, now, I use elinks almost as often as I use Firefox.  It
> >> even
> >> has tabbed browsing!
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >> --
> >> john-thomas
> >> ------
> >> In a perfect union the man and woman are like a strung bow. Who is to
> >> say whether the string bends the bow, or the bow tightens the string?
> >> Cyril Connolly, critic and editor (1903-1974)
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> grlug mailing list
> >> grlug at grlug.org
> >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> --
> Mike Nicholas
> The Personal Connection
> Computer Consultants
> Kalamazoo, Michigan USA

I'll bring the chocolate bars.

-- 
:wq

From radiodurans at yahoo.com  Fri Nov  2 22:08:50 2007
From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450711021318n420adbdkfeba412a8847b987@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <691582.69101.qm@web80411.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

ummm ... before you throw that gasoline on the fire .
. . ill take it considering the price per barrel of
oil.

--- Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/2/07, Mike Nicholas / The Personal Connection
> <nicholas at iserv.net> wrote:
> > At least we didn't debate top posting or bottom
> posting....
> >
> > marshmellows anyone?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On Fri, November 2, 2007 3:36 pm, Bob Kline wrote:
> > > Just a little gasoline on the fire.  :-)
> > >
> > >     -Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 2, 2007 3:24 PM, john-thomas richards
> <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 03:19:13PM -0400, Bob
> Kline wrote:
> > >> > Hey,  ASCII browsers are fast!
> > >> >
> > >> > Useless,  but fast...
> > >>
> > >> Useless?  Hey, now, I use elinks almost as
> often as I use Firefox.  It
> > >> even
> > >> has tabbed browsing!
> > >>
> > >> [snip]
> > >> --
> > >> john-thomas
> > >> ------
> > >> In a perfect union the man and woman are like a
> strung bow. Who is to
> > >> say whether the string bends the bow, or the
> bow tightens the string?
> > >> Cyril Connolly, critic and editor (1903-1974)
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> grlug mailing list
> > >> grlug at grlug.org
> > >>
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > grlug mailing list
> > > grlug at grlug.org
> > >
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mike Nicholas
> > The Personal Connection
> > Computer Consultants
> > Kalamazoo, Michigan USA
> 
> I'll bring the chocolate bars.
> 
> -- 
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
>
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> 


From investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us  Fri Nov  2 23:24:21 2007
From: investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us (Brad Becker)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 20:24:21 -0700
Subject: [GRLUG] My Webradio Site
Message-ID: <200711022024.21455.investmgmt@s91195370.onlinehome.us>

I've set up a Webradio site using Icecast2 in linux. The server has 3
mpbs down/ 512k up DSL service. I'm pretty much clueless what kind of
bandwidth it can handle with concurrent connections so I'm hoping you
could connect and see if comes crashing down :)

11 songs, light jazz & pop, a bit of ambient, roughly 1 hours worth
total. If you don't like the music just keep playing and mute,
hopefully thru 1 cycle at least to increase the chance of mutliple
connects from others.

http://oberon.gotdns.com:8000/

Brad Becker
CPU[AMD Socket A clocked at 2341.119 Mhz] Kernel[Linux
2.6.23.1-slh-smp-8 i686] Up[-56min-] Mem[-129.0/503.9MB-]
HDD[-81GB(10%used)-] Procs[-81-] Client[Shell]

From mikemol at gmail.com  Fri Nov  2 23:56:36 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 23:56:36 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] Just for Bob
In-Reply-To: <691582.69101.qm@web80411.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <f5e00c450711021318n420adbdkfeba412a8847b987@mail.gmail.com>
	<691582.69101.qm@web80411.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711022056l82e3dacm863468008d5676c@mail.gmail.com>

S'alright.  You're supposed to cook s'mores over the coals after the
fire's burned down.

On 11/2/07, John Harig <radiodurans at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ummm ... before you throw that gasoline on the fire .
> . . ill take it considering the price per barrel of
> oil.
>
> --- Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 11/2/07, Mike Nicholas / The Personal Connection
> > <nicholas at iserv.net> wrote:
> > > At least we didn't debate top posting or bottom
> > posting....
> > >
> > > marshmellows anyone?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > On Fri, November 2, 2007 3:36 pm, Bob Kline wrote:
> > > > Just a little gasoline on the fire.  :-)
> > > >
> > > >     -Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 2, 2007 3:24 PM, john-thomas richards
> > <jtr at jrichards.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 03:19:13PM -0400, Bob
> > Kline wrote:
> > > >> > Hey,  ASCII browsers are fast!
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Useless,  but fast...
> > > >>
> > > >> Useless?  Hey, now, I use elinks almost as
> > often as I use Firefox.  It
> > > >> even
> > > >> has tabbed browsing!
> > > >>
> > > >> [snip]
> > > >> --
> > > >> john-thomas
> > > >> ------
> > > >> In a perfect union the man and woman are like a
> > strung bow. Who is to
> > > >> say whether the string bends the bow, or the
> > bow tightens the string?
> > > >> Cyril Connolly, critic and editor (1903-1974)
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> grlug mailing list
> > > >> grlug at grlug.org
> > > >>
> >
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > grlug mailing list
> > > > grlug at grlug.org
> > > >
> >
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike Nicholas
> > > The Personal Connection
> > > Computer Consultants
> > > Kalamazoo, Michigan USA
> >
> > I'll bring the chocolate bars.
> >
> > --
> > :wq
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> >
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


-- 
:wq

From mikemol at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 00:03:35 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 00:03:35 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] My Webradio Site
In-Reply-To: <200711022024.21455.investmgmt@s91195370.onlinehome.us>
References: <200711022024.21455.investmgmt@s91195370.onlinehome.us>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711022103j4564db19y7042f1ec491be48f@mail.gmail.com>

All Creative Commons songs, right? :-) (If not, look over at
archive.org; There's some incredible free, legal stuff on there.)

Got through the tail end of the first song, and it seems to have
paused or died.  Going to leave it running overnight, as my normal
night net radio seems to be limiting connection duration, so it's gone
by the time I get up.

On 11/2/07, Brad Becker <investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us> wrote:
> I've set up a Webradio site using Icecast2 in linux. The server has 3
> mpbs down/ 512k up DSL service. I'm pretty much clueless what kind of
> bandwidth it can handle with concurrent connections so I'm hoping you
> could connect and see if comes crashing down :)
>
> 11 songs, light jazz & pop, a bit of ambient, roughly 1 hours worth
> total. If you don't like the music just keep playing and mute,
> hopefully thru 1 cycle at least to increase the chance of mutliple
> connects from others.
>
> http://oberon.gotdns.com:8000/
>
> Brad Becker
> CPU[AMD Socket A clocked at 2341.119 Mhz] Kernel[Linux
> 2.6.23.1-slh-smp-8 i686] Up[-56min-] Mem[-129.0/503.9MB-]
> HDD[-81GB(10%used)-] Procs[-81-] Client[Shell]
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


-- 
:wq

From bob.kline at gmail.com  Sat Nov  3 00:23:54 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 00:23:54 -0400
Subject: [GRLUG] My Webradio Site
In-Reply-To: <200711022024.21455.investmgmt@s91195370.onlinehome.us>
References: <200711022024.21455.investmgmt@s91195370.onlinehome.us>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711022123h4b8fa17dx3e3df03a7ead64e0@mail.gmail.com>

If you want to add some old time
radio,  try http://www.archive.org/details/oldtimeradio

There are thousands of hours of programming,
and it's free.

    -Bob


On Nov 2, 2007 11:24 PM, Brad Becker <investmgmt at s91195370.onlinehome.us>
wrote:

> I've set up a Webradio site using Icecast2 in linux. The server has 3
> mpbs down/ 512k up DSL service. I'm pretty much clueless what kind of
> bandwidth it can handle with concurrent connections so I'm hoping you
> could connect and see if comes crashing down :)
>
> 11 songs, light jazz & pop, a bit of ambient, roughly 1 hours worth
> total. If you don't like the music just keep playing and mute,
> hopefully thru 1 cycle at least to increase the chance of mutliple
> connects from others.
>
> http://oberon.gotdns.com:8000/
>
> Brad Becker
> CPU[AMD Socket A clocked at 2341.119 Mhz] Kernel[Linux
> 2.6.23.1-slh-smp-8 i686] Up[-56min-] Mem[-129.0/503.9MB-]
> HDD[-81GB(10%used)-] Procs[-81-] Client[Shell]
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From bob.kline at gmail.com  Mon Nov  5 17:22:02 2007
From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 17:22:02 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] External drive transfer rates
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920710220905s13d5ebc8wbdae35ddfbecb36e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d181b7d70710201220j1678b807g7eaa0fe86a544dfa@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450710201236v547e0c16webf68606743f9712@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70710201347q1e62cdbela0375626a24864d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70710201605o6c7ffa34jd455d2890fd26fab@mail.gmail.com>
	<f5e00c450710201620u54a4e942r66056ca67c65abec@mail.gmail.com>
	<d181b7d70710201650o32e1916axa7f4fd33aa48d57b@mail.gmail.com>
	<81e08d920710220905s13d5ebc8wbdae35ddfbecb36e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d181b7d70711051422j4ceb789fhcffa704930c9f968@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 22, 2007 11:05 AM, Justin Denick <justin.denick at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Be sure to see what  the DMA specs are too.
>
> hdparm -cuda /devx
>
> As you can see it makes a big differnece
>
> justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda
>
> /dev/hda:
>  Timing buffered disk reads:  166 MB in  3.02 seconds =  54.92 MB/sec
> justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -d0 /dev/hda
>
> /dev/hda:
>  setting using_dma to 0 (off)
>  using_dma    =  0 (off)
> justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda
>
> /dev/hda:
>  Timing buffered disk reads:   18 MB in  3.26 seconds =   5.53 MB/sec
> justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/hda
>
> /dev/hda:
>  setting using_dma to 1 (on)
>  using_dma    =  1 (on)
> justin at da-boxx ~ $ sudo hdparm -t /dev/hda
>
> /dev/hda:
>  Timing buffered disk reads:  166 MB in  3.02 seconds =  54.88 MB/sec
> justin at da-boxx ~ $
>
> It's a kernel option
> CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y
>

hdparm -cuda  /dev/x

only reports for a:  "readahead =  256 (on)

Running   "hdparm -d1 /dev/x"
result in "HDIO_SET_DEM failed: Invalid argument."

The hdparm man page suggest that
in rare cases one has to use the -X
parameter.  It also says this can cause
real headaches.

    -Bob
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From cmilkins at tds.net  Mon Nov  5 15:18:52 2007
From: cmilkins at tds.net (Cameron)
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:18:52 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
Message-ID: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>

Hi,

I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some help.
I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen times for
a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of them to
boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to no
avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds, bit
torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of a
current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily
understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting a
clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.

 

Regards,

 

Cam

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From brousch at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 07:41:34 2007
From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 07:41:34 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
References: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
Message-ID: <d92a2d930711060441q30c56b2av857eaaf2d4bddff2@mail.gmail.com>

I have run into similar problems in the last couple of years, and my friend
actually had the same problem last week. Usually the disk images are OK, and
swapping out the CD-ROM on the computer fixes the problem. I don't know
whether to blame the drive manufacturers, the CDR manufacturers, or
something in the Linux distros, but it is an annoying situation. So my
advice is, try one of your already burned CDs, but use a different CD drive.

On 11/5/07, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>
> I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
> filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some
> help.  I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen
> times for a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of
> them to boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of
> advice to no avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different
> speeds, bit torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a
> clean copy of a current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that
> is easily understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for
> getting a clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and
> want to change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> *Cam*
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From cmilkins at tds.net  Tue Nov  6 08:39:10 2007
From: cmilkins at tds.net (Cameron)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:39:10 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <d92a2d930711060441q30c56b2av857eaaf2d4bddff2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c8207a$6aa004f0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>

Thanks, Ben.

 

Cam Milkins

National Real Estate Advisor

Sperry Van Ness/Silveri Company

cameron.milkins at svn.com

cmilkins at tds.net

(616) 780-5634

 

-----Original Message-----
From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
Ben Rousch
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:42 AM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] newbie help

 

I have run into similar problems in the last couple of years, and my friend
actually had the same problem last week. Usually the disk images are OK, and
swapping out the CD-ROM on the computer fixes the problem. I don't know
whether to blame the drive manufacturers, the CDR manufacturers, or
something in the Linux distros, but it is an annoying situation. So my
advice is, try one of your already burned CDs, but use a different CD drive.


On 11/5/07, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:

Hi,

I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some help.
I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen times for
a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of them to
boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to no
avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds, bit
torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of a
current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily
understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting a
clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.

 

Regards,

 

Cam


_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From flanderb at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 08:52:07 2007
From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 08:52:07 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <001501c8207a$6aa004f0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
References: <d92a2d930711060441q30c56b2av857eaaf2d4bddff2@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501c8207a$6aa004f0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
Message-ID: <e8898d550711060552pb2743eflca3e4417db03d662@mail.gmail.com>

Cameron,
I hope you really didn't think your e-mail was spam.  It is my belief,
and I hope that of the other members, that questions like this is one
of the reasons for the group.  To disseminate knowledge and help the
newbies as well as having discourse on the pertinent technologies
related to Linux as a whole.(You like that last sentence?)

This goes out to anyone here, feel free to ask questions if "The
Google" isn't forthcoming with mountains of information.

Ben "I hope to make it to a meeting sometime" Flanders


On Nov 6, 2007 8:39 AM, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks, Ben.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cam Milkins
>
> National Real Estate Advisor
>
> Sperry Van Ness/Silveri Company
>
> cameron.milkins at svn.com
>
> cmilkins at tds.net
>
> (616) 780-5634
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
> Ben Rousch
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:42 AM
>  To: grlug at grlug.org
>  Subject: Re: [GRLUG] newbie help
>
>
>
> I have run into similar problems in the last couple of years, and my friend
> actually had the same problem last week. Usually the disk images are OK, and
> swapping out the CD-ROM on the computer fixes the problem. I don't know
> whether to blame the drive manufacturers, the CDR manufacturers, or
> something in the Linux distros, but it is an annoying situation. So my
> advice is, try one of your already burned CDs, but use a different CD drive.
>
> On 11/5/07, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
> filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some help.
> I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen times for
> a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of them to
> boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to no
> avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds, bit
> torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of a
> current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily
> understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting a
> clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
> change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Cam
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben

From cmilkins at tds.net  Tue Nov  6 09:15:08 2007
From: cmilkins at tds.net (Cameron)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 09:15:08 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <e8898d550711060552pb2743eflca3e4417db03d662@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002001c8207f$713f2c00$0d02a8c0@Laptop>

Thanks, Ben.

Cam Milkins
National Real Estate Advisor
Sperry Van Ness/Silveri Company
cameron.milkins at svn.com
cmilkins at tds.net
(616) 780-5634


-----Original Message-----
From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
Benjamin Flanders
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:52 AM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] newbie help

Cameron,
I hope you really didn't think your e-mail was spam.  It is my belief,
and I hope that of the other members, that questions like this is one
of the reasons for the group.  To disseminate knowledge and help the
newbies as well as having discourse on the pertinent technologies
related to Linux as a whole.(You like that last sentence?)

This goes out to anyone here, feel free to ask questions if "The
Google" isn't forthcoming with mountains of information.

Ben "I hope to make it to a meeting sometime" Flanders


On Nov 6, 2007 8:39 AM, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks, Ben.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cam Milkins
>
> National Real Estate Advisor
>
> Sperry Van Ness/Silveri Company
>
> cameron.milkins at svn.com
>
> cmilkins at tds.net
>
> (616) 780-5634
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf
Of
> Ben Rousch
>  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:42 AM
>  To: grlug at grlug.org
>  Subject: Re: [GRLUG] newbie help
>
>
>
> I have run into similar problems in the last couple of years, and my
friend
> actually had the same problem last week. Usually the disk images are OK,
and
> swapping out the CD-ROM on the computer fixes the problem. I don't know
> whether to blame the drive manufacturers, the CDR manufacturers, or
> something in the Linux distros, but it is an annoying situation. So my
> advice is, try one of your already burned CDs, but use a different CD
drive.
>
> On 11/5/07, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
> filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some
help.
> I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen times
for
> a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of them to
> boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to
no
> avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds,
bit
> torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of
a
> current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily
> understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting
a
> clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
> change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Cam
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  grlug mailing list
>  grlug at grlug.org
>  http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>



-- 
Share and Enjoy
Ben
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From rick.vargo at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 09:29:21 2007
From: rick.vargo at gmail.com (Rick Vargo)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2007 09:29:21 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
References: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
Message-ID: <47307A41.6090204@gmail.com>

Cameron,

Can this computer see everything that is on the CD your burned after it
is booted into the old OS on the machine you are trying to install to? 
Frequently your issue is due to a format that your CD drive doesn't
understand or media that is not rated for the speed of your drive.  For
example, A couple of year old CD burner may not be able to use a 700 mb
CD-R/CD-RW format but can read a 650 mb format just fine (Unfortunately
most distros require a 700 mb disc).  Also check the speeds that your
media supports on the label and compare it to you drive and verify that
your media is compatible with your burner.  Hopefully, this will help
you out.

Rick


Cameron wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I?m not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn?t see any way
> to filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use
> some help.  I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a
> half dozen times for a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I
> can?t get any of them to boot.  I have tried some user forums and
> followed all kinds of advice to no avail.  I have tried different disk
> burning programs, different speeds, bit torrent downloads, and the
> list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of a current release for
> a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily understood by
> newbies.  Or, does anyone have a ?silver bullet? for getting a clean
> iso image disk for installation.  I?m sick of Windows and want to
> change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
>
>  
>
> Regards,
>
>  
>
> */Cam/*
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

From mikemol at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 10:42:56 2007
From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 10:42:56 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
References: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
Message-ID: <f5e00c450711060742o18c39f54i80851aa5945fe0fd@mail.gmail.com>

What are you using to burn the ISO images?  Are you using the
software's "Burn image" feature, or are you adding the ISO to the file
list?

On 11/5/07, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
> filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some help.
>  I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen times
> for a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of them to
> boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to no
> avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds, bit
> torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of a
> current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily
> understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting a
> clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
> change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Cam
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


-- 
:wq

From munroej at gmail.com  Tue Nov  6 11:59:43 2007
From: munroej at gmail.com (Jesse Munroe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 11:59:43 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450711060742o18c39f54i80851aa5945fe0fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001001c81fe9$1782aca0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>
	<f5e00c450711060742o18c39f54i80851aa5945fe0fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74d820590711060859y64b2db2byfa22c6b520f6119e@mail.gmail.com>

Is it possible that a real newbie fix is in order here?  Just checking, are
your boot drives in the new linux machine set to boot from CD ROM before
your Hard Disk?

On 11/6/07, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What are you using to burn the ISO images?  Are you using the
> software's "Burn image" feature, or are you adding the ISO to the file
> list?
>
> On 11/5/07, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
> > filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some
> help.
> >  I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen
> times
> > for a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of
> them to
> > boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to
> no
> > avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds,
> bit
> > torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy
> of a
> > current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily
> > understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for
> getting a
> > clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
> > change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Cam
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grlug mailing list
> > grlug at grlug.org
> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
> >
>
>
> --
> :wq
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>
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From cmilkins at tds.net  Tue Nov  6 13:24:46 2007
From: cmilkins at tds.net (Cameron)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 13:24:46 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <f5e00c450711060742o18c39f54i80851aa5945fe0fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c820a2$513d9400$0d02a8c0@Laptop>

Using the "burn iso image" of a software called Burn4Free that was
recommended in Ubuntu Forum in one of the threads.  

Thanks for your reply,

Cam Milkins
National Real Estate Advisor
Sperry Van Ness/Silveri Company
cameron.milkins at svn.com
cmilkins at tds.net
(616) 780-5634


-----Original Message-----
From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
Michael Mol
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:43 AM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] newbie help

What are you using to burn the ISO images?  Are you using the
software's "Burn image" feature, or are you adding the ISO to the file
list?

On 11/5/07, Cameron <cmilkins at tds.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
> filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some
help.
>  I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen times
> for a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of them
to
> boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to
no
> avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds,
bit
> torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of
a
> current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily
> understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting
a
> clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
> change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Cam
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


-- 
:wq
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug


From cmilkins at tds.net  Tue Nov  6 13:24:46 2007
From: cmilkins at tds.net (Cameron)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 13:24:46 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <74d820590711060859y64b2db2byfa22c6b520f6119e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c820a2$56d416f0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>

Jesse,

I believe I have set the boot drives to boot from the CD Rom.  I have listed
CD Rom as the first boot source.  Also, I have been using the "burn iso
image" icon in my burn program (third recommended burn program that I have
downloaded).  I made every attempt to review the threads at the Ubuntu Forum
before tracking down a local group.  Thanks for your reply.

 

Regards,

 

Cam Milkins

National Real Estate Advisor

Sperry Van Ness/Silveri Company

cameron.milkins at svn.com

cmilkins at tds.net

(616) 780-5634

 

-----Original Message-----
From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
Jesse Munroe
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:00 PM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] newbie help

 

Is it possible that a real newbie fix is in order here?  Just checking, are
your boot drives in the new linux machine set to boot from CD ROM before
your Hard Disk?

On 11/6/07, Michael Mol <mikemol at gmail.com> wrote:

What are you using to burn the ISO images?  Are you using the
software's "Burn image" feature, or are you adding the ISO to the file
list?

On 11/5/07, Cameron < cmilkins at tds.net <mailto:cmilkins at tds.net> > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way to
> filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use some
help. 
>  I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a half dozen times
> for a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I can't get any of them
to
> boot.  I have tried some user forums and followed all kinds of advice to
no 
> avail.  I have tried different disk burning programs, different speeds,
bit
> torrent downloads, and the list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of
a
> current release for a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily 
> understood by newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting
a
> clean iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
> change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help. 
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Cam
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org  <mailto:grlug at grlug.org> 
> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug
>


--
:wq
_______________________________________________
grlug mailing list
grlug at grlug.org
http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From cmilkins at tds.net  Tue Nov  6 13:31:15 2007
From: cmilkins at tds.net (Cameron)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 13:31:15 -0500
Subject: [GRLUG] newbie help
In-Reply-To: <47307A41.6090204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000601c820a3$38a318b0$0d02a8c0@Laptop>

Rick,
I put the disk into the computer.  I opened "my computer" in Windows XP.
The CD Rom drive showed as having Ubuntu in it.  I opened the disk with
explorer.  I believe that all the files that should be on the installation
disk were listed on the CD.  So, to make a short story long, yes the current
OS recognizes the disk.  It does seem to be slow, however.  Thanks for
replying.  Any wisdom?

Regards,

Cam Milkins
National Real Estate Advisor
Sperry Van Ness/Silveri Company
cameron.milkins at svn.com
cmilkins at tds.net
(616) 780-5634


-----Original Message-----
From: grlug-bounces at grlug.org [mailto:grlug-bounces at grlug.org] On Behalf Of
Rick Vargo
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:29 AM
To: grlug at grlug.org
Subject: Re: [GRLUG] newbie help

Cameron,

Can this computer see everything that is on the CD your burned after it
is booted into the old OS on the machine you are trying to install to? 
Frequently your issue is due to a format that your CD drive doesn't
understand or media that is not rated for the speed of your drive.  For
example, A couple of year old CD burner may not be able to use a 700 mb
CD-R/CD-RW format but can read a 650 mb format just fine (Unfortunately
most distros require a 700 mb disc).  Also check the speeds that your
media supports on the label and compare it to you drive and verify that
your media is compatible with your burner.  Hopefully, this will help
you out.

Rick


Cameron wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not trying to create rookie spam here, but I couldn't see any way
> to filter this email to the appropriate parties.  I could really use
> some help.  I have tried to download and burn iso images at least a
> half dozen times for a few distros of Linux.  No matter what I do, I
> can't get any of them to boot.  I have tried some user forums and
> followed all kinds of advice to no avail.  I have tried different disk
> burning programs, different speeds, bit torrent downloads, and the
> list goes on.  Does anyone have a clean copy of a current release for
> a user-friendly Linux distribution that is easily understood by
> newbies.  Or, does anyone have a "silver bullet" for getting a clean
> iso image disk for installation.  I'm sick of Windows and want to
> change, but currently frustrated by obtaining Linux.  Please help.
>
>  
>
> Regards,
>
>  
>
> */Cam/*
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> grlug mailing list
> grlug at grlug.org
> http://shinobu.g