From jtr at jrichards.org Sat Dec 1 15:00:18 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:00:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another Message-ID: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? -- john-thomas ------ I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. Voltaire (1694-1778) From dond at standalelumber.com Sat Dec 1 20:51:09 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:51:09 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? From driveray at ameritech.net Sat Dec 1 21:15:34 2007 From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:15:34 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> I was going to suggest this too. I'm mostly a KDE guy, but I have used some gnome apps (evolution for one) and been frustrated that some but not all the settings were kept in it's own dot folder. Definitely grep around in .gnome or .gnome2, or what ever, for any references to the app. It could be something as simple as an impossible window size (like with a negative number) in a recent programs description. If this yields no joy, and you want to fight with it you can create a new user, log in as this new user and make sure gnomesword works for this user. Backup this new user's config (~/.gnome*) then start copying config files from you wife's folder to the new user's. When the app breaks you've found your. A root shell would be handy here. Start with the most likely sounding filenames first, and don't forget to chown them so the new user has full access to them. God luck Raymond McLaughlin Don Wood wrote: > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? > > > > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: >> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have >> on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When >> she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The >> Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When >> she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is >> "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the >> GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all >> the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run >> for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app >> will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really >> puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From geektoyz at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 12:54:30 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:54:30 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> I could set these up... What's the general LUG consensus? G- On Nov 30, 2007 9:33 AM, Casey DuBois wrote: > Some LUG's have multiple lists. > > We could do: > GRLUG-List (standard listings) > GRLUG-Jobs > GRLUG-Classifieds (hardware/software for free/sale) > > I really like the idea of keeping 1 list and noting GENERAL, JOBS OR CLASSIFIED in the header field. > > Casey > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john-thomas richards [mailto:jtr at jrichards.org] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:57 AM > To: grlug at grlug.org > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 12:35:56AM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Nov 29, 2007 9:50 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote: > > > Thanks for the responses regarding the magazines. I have to agree with Ray > > > that with the list GRLUG sponsored, that topics would be Linux related. > > > Well, I've got a bunch of older Linux magazines and their partner DVD's. > > > E-mail me directly if your interested for the inventory. > > > > Perhaps we could agree on a subject prefix to denote more general > > threads? Say, "GENERAL:". That way, those of us interested in more > > general threads can read them, while people sufficiently disinterested > > in such threads can put a filter in their IM client. > > > > I'd otherwise suggest a general at grlug.org sister list, but I have no > > doubt such a list would eventually fall into disuse, with its topics > > showing up in the main list again. > > At one time we had a 'grlug-chat' sister list but it was seldom used. > The premise was for general, well, *chat* that was off-topic for grlug > proper. > -- > john-thomas > ------ > Westheimer's Discovery: A couple of months in the laboratory can save a > couple of hours in the library. > Frank H. Westheimer, chemistry professor (1912- ) > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 13:24:53 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:24:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My opinion would be to not bother for now. At present there is more discussion of multiple lists than discussion itself. If/when the current list becomes bogged down with meaningful entries it might be time to consider fragmenting the topics. The point about people submitting items for sale is probably a good case in point. It comes up now and then that someone wants to unload a PC component, or get suggestions about a component for a project they are working on. It's not Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as a group it was never really decided just what Linux is.... ), but it doesn't really bog the list down in any realistic way. Not enough to have to sit back and think about what list category one's question should go in, and then set off big flame wars about whether one made the right choice rather than discuss the issue at hand... - Bob On Dec 2, 2007 12:54 PM, Godwin wrote: > I could set these up... What's the general LUG consensus? > > G- > > > On Nov 30, 2007 9:33 AM, Casey DuBois wrote: > > Some LUG's have multiple lists. > > > > We could do: > > GRLUG-List (standard listings) > > GRLUG-Jobs > > GRLUG-Classifieds (hardware/software for free/sale) > > > > I really like the idea of keeping 1 list and noting GENERAL, JOBS OR > CLASSIFIED in the header field. > > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: john-thomas richards [mailto:jtr at jrichards.org] > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:57 AM > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade > > > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 12:35:56AM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > > On Nov 29, 2007 9:50 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt > wrote: > > > > Thanks for the responses regarding the magazines. I have to agree > with Ray > > > > that with the list GRLUG sponsored, that topics would be Linux > related. > > > > Well, I've got a bunch of older Linux magazines and their partner > DVD's. > > > > E-mail me directly if your interested for the inventory. > > > > > > Perhaps we could agree on a subject prefix to denote more general > > > threads? Say, "GENERAL:". That way, those of us interested in more > > > general threads can read them, while people sufficiently disinterested > > > in such threads can put a filter in their IM client. > > > > > > I'd otherwise suggest a general at grlug.org sister list, but I have no > > > doubt such a list would eventually fall into disuse, with its topics > > > showing up in the main list again. > > > > At one time we had a 'grlug-chat' sister list but it was seldom used. > > The premise was for general, well, *chat* that was off-topic for grlug > > proper. > > -- > > john-thomas > > ------ > > Westheimer's Discovery: A couple of months in the laboratory can save a > > couple of hours in the library. > > Frank H. Westheimer, chemistry professor (1912- ) > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071202/304d0346/attachment-0001.htm From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 17:43:34 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:43:34 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:24:53PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: [snip] > It's not > Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as > a group it was never really decided just > what Linux is.... ), [snip] Yes, it was decided, Bob. It's called "Debian." Sheesh. As if we have no consensus around here. -- john-thomas ------ Democracy is good. I say this because other systems are worse. Jawaharlal Nehru From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 17:45:15 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:45:15 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <20071202224515.GB8404@jrichards.org> On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 08:51:09PM -0500, Don Wood wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > > on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > > she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > > Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > > she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > > "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > > GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > > the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > > for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > > will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > > puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? Yes, there is an entry in ~/.gnome2. I renamed it and tried to run the app again. Same result. -- john-thomas ------ Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think. Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914) [The Devil's Dictionary] From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 17:50:58 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:50:58 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20071202225058.GC8404@jrichards.org> On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 09:15:34PM -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > Don Wood wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > >> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > >> on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > >> she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > >> Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > >> she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > >> "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > >> GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > >> the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > >> for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > >> will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > >> puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > > > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? > I was going to suggest this too. I'm mostly a KDE guy, but I have used > some gnome apps (evolution for one) and been frustrated that some but > not all the settings were kept in it's own dot folder. Definitely grep > around in .gnome or .gnome2, or what ever, for any references to the > app. It could be something as simple as an impossible window size > (like > with a negative number) in a recent programs description. > > If this yields no joy, and you want to fight with it you can create a > new user, log in as this new user and make sure gnomesword works for > this user. Backup this new user's config (~/.gnome*) then start > copying > config files from you wife's folder to the new user's. When the app > breaks you've found your. > > A root shell would be handy here. Start with the most likely sounding > filenames first, and don't forget to chown them so the new user has > full > access to them. Here is the content of the ~/.gnome2/gnomesword config file: djr at bird:~/.gnome2$ cat gnomesword [Placement] Dock=toolbarNav\\0,1,0,0\\Menubar\\0,0,0,0 I am not sure what this means. (Buehler?) I have not found any other files that appear related to this app. I will keep searching, though. -- john-thomas ------ The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment. Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977) From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 18:01:29 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:01:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> Message-ID: On Dec 2, 2007 5:43 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:24:53PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > [snip] > > It's not > > Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as > > a group it was never really decided just > > what Linux is.... ), > [snip] > > Yes, it was decided, Bob. It's called "Debian." Sheesh. As if we have > no consensus around here. > -- > Yowzer. A consensus of one. Looks then like we have lots of them.... Consensuses? Consensi? But maybe not e pluribus consensus.. Or, we ain't got no stink'n consensus. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071202/619d421d/attachment-0001.htm From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 18:23:20 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:23:20 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <20071202232319.GA13582@jrichards.org> On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 06:01:29PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > On Dec 2, 2007 5:43 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > > > On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:24:53PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > > [snip] > > > It's not > > > Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as > > > a group it was never really decided just > > > what Linux is.... ), > > [snip] > > > > Yes, it was decided, Bob. It's called "Debian." Sheesh. As if we have > > no consensus around here. > > > > Yowzer. A consensus of one. Looks > then like we have lots of them.... > > Consensuses? Consensi? But maybe not > e pluribus consensus.. > > Or, we ain't got no stink'n consensus. Yes, a consensus of one...we have an army of *one* after all... -- john-thomas ------ God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world. C. S. Lewis From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 19:40:00 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:40:00 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <20071202225058.GC8404@jrichards.org> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> <20071202225058.GC8404@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <20071203004000.GA16751@jrichards.org> On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 05:50:58PM -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 09:15:34PM -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > > Don Wood wrote: > > > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > >> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > > >> on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > > >> she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > > >> Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > > >> she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > > >> "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > > >> GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > > >> the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > > >> for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > > >> will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > > >> puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > > > > > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? > > I was going to suggest this too. I'm mostly a KDE guy, but I have used > > some gnome apps (evolution for one) and been frustrated that some but > > not all the settings were kept in it's own dot folder. Definitely grep > > around in .gnome or .gnome2, or what ever, for any references to the > > app. It could be something as simple as an impossible window size > > (like > > with a negative number) in a recent programs description. > > > > If this yields no joy, and you want to fight with it you can create a > > new user, log in as this new user and make sure gnomesword works for > > this user. Backup this new user's config (~/.gnome*) then start > > copying > > config files from you wife's folder to the new user's. When the app > > breaks you've found your. > > > > A root shell would be handy here. Start with the most likely sounding > > filenames first, and don't forget to chown them so the new user has > > full > > access to them. > > Here is the content of the ~/.gnome2/gnomesword config file: > > djr at bird:~/.gnome2$ cat gnomesword > > [Placement] > Dock=toolbarNav\\0,1,0,0\\Menubar\\0,0,0,0 > > > I am not sure what this means. (Buehler?) > > I have not found any other files that appear related to this app. I will > keep searching, though. I copied over my .gnomesword2 directory, changed the owner to my wife's account, and all is well. The app runs as it should. This is *very* strange as it (like all apps) creates a config file/directory if there is not one when it is run. Must be a bug in gnomesword, methinks. Thanks for the suggestions. It got me on the right path! -- john-thomas ------ Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. Euripides From mikemol at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 21:36:01 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:36:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 2, 2007 1:24 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > My opinion would be to not bother > for now. At present there is more > discussion of multiple lists than > discussion itself. If/when the current > list becomes bogged down with > meaningful entries it might be time to > consider fragmenting the topics. For a community of this size, it really doesn't make sense to fragment the mailing lists. Subtopic mailing lists will just grow stale as people who were once on them stop participating. You can't really ask every new person to sign up to the other mailing lists, because you don't know who the new people are, or when they sign up. Joe newbie will write a message to the mailing list saying he's got a PC for sale, and will be told by some person to another to take it to the classifieds mailing list. Joe might subsequently post to the sublist, but, chances are, anyone who might see it there already saw it on the mailing list, and will have responded if they're interested, regardless. I really prefer settling on prefixes for the subject line. Easy to figure out once you've seen it, and easy to filter out, if you don't care for it. FOR SALE is a good prefix for sales. WANTED is a good prefix for anything someone might be looking for. I don't see how things like copyright (I remember when the argument against DRM and the DMCA was that you couldn't watch the stuff on Linux.) and bittorrent filtering (Remember when people used Linux distros as a prime example of legitimate use?) are offtopic for the list, but I suppose one could be pendantic and say anything not unique to Linux could be prefixed with "GENERAL". But I still think you'd see more general posts than posts without any prefix. -- :wq From mikemol at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 21:44:01 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:44:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC Message-ID: My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not absolutely required. Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. -- :wq From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon Dec 3 00:21:22 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:21:22 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Newegg barebones? http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=3&name=Barebone-Computers http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110064 ??? I dunno On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 21:44 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't > look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. > > I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of > having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB > keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" > hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not > absolutely required. > > Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/eebf1dcc/attachment.pgp From mikemol at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 01:11:18 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 01:11:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: Great idea. I'd forgotten about barebones systems. On Dec 3, 2007 12:21 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > Newegg barebones? > > http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=3&name=Barebone-Computers > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110064 > > ??? > > I dunno > > > On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 21:44 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't > > look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. > > > > I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of > > having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB > > keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" > > hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not > > absolutely required. > > > > Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From cdubois at n-vint.com Mon Dec 3 09:55:24 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:55:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Hey Steve, I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. How big of a truck do you have? Casey -----Original Message----- From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM Greg Folkert wrote: > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > >> Casey DuBois wrote: >> >>> Hello LUGgers, >>> >>> It's time for another meeting. >>> >>> Wednesday December 5th. >>> From: 6-8PM >>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia >>> > [snippage] > >> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday >> night in Kentwood? >> > > Where exactly in Kentwood? > > I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is > flexible *now*.... > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed am. I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as a hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been able to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even got a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont have the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team members. FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. Steve > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From justin.denick at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 10:16:50 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:16:50 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> I just picked up a real gem from globalcomputers.com Intel Pentium D 3.0 socket 775 1BG DDR2 80 GB SATA Decent CPU fan Intel board Decent case and a USB Thumb Drive for under $300 On Dec 3, 2007 1:11 AM, Michael Mol wrote: > Great idea. I'd forgotten about barebones systems. > > On Dec 3, 2007 12:21 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > Newegg barebones? > > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=3&name=Barebone-Computers > > > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110064 > > > > ??? > > > > I dunno > > > > > > On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 21:44 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > > My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't > > > look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. > > > > > > I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of > > > having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB > > > keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" > > > hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not > > > absolutely required. > > > > > > Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/afec97d6/attachment-0001.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 10:24:54 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:24:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 10:16 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > I just picked up a real gem from globalcomputers.com > > Intel Pentium D 3.0 socket 775 Pentium D's aren't the most power friendly CPUs in the world (to say the least). The consumption difference between comparable Pentium D's and Core 2 Duos can easily total > $100 / year if you leave your computer on all the time. Spending a little more up front can actually save you money in the near-middle term. :-/ --tim From ndrier at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 10:49:18 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:49:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 10:24 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 3, 2007 10:16 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > I just picked up a real gem from globalcomputers.com > > > > Intel Pentium D 3.0 socket 775 > > Pentium D's aren't the most power friendly CPUs in the world (to say > the least). The consumption difference between comparable Pentium D's > and Core 2 Duos can easily total > $100 / year if you leave your > computer on all the time. Spending a little more up front can > actually save you money in the near-middle term. :-/ > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > They do kick out quite a pile of heat. Maybe that can translate into savings on your gas bill? ;-) I know with the thermostat set on 56 (college kids) my room stays pretty toasty with the D cranking out some VM's all night long. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/f7fc25aa/attachment.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 11:07:02 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:07:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712030807v149ee599x9c5b5e9a8bc49b5f@mail.gmail.com> On Nov 30, 2007 3:06 PM, Casey DuBois wrote: > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia Hey Casey, I'm going to attempt to make it. :) --tim From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 17:05:07 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:05:07 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 3, 2007 10:49 AM, Nathan wrote: > > > > > They do kick out quite a pile of heat. Maybe that can translate into > savings on your gas bill? ;-) > > I know with the thermostat set on 56 (college kids) my room stays pretty > toasty with the D cranking out some VM's all night long. > > Demonstrating category creep here, let me just comment that resistive heating is an expensive way to heat your room And the flip side is A/C, which simply has to remove the heat. Overall this is a bad strategy - better to get the dual core someone else suggested.... You might get a few points extra in some global warming class that way, or maybe even an award for being so environmentally friendly. You just keep on winning.. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/a7ff26f8/attachment.htm From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 17:29:19 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:29:19 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? Message-ID: I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring dessert to the meeting. I'm good at cooking, therefore, is their any requests? I have ingredients for Pineapple upside down cake already in my kitchen. I can make other stuff if someone asks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/a57ae7fc/attachment-0001.htm From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:33:48 2007 From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:33:48 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> "I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring dessert to the meeting." Jorge, you get some bonus points here. My contribution to dessert for any office function is normally something from the local vending machine. However, you've inspired me to also offer a contribution of something sweet. It may, or may not, come from a local large grocery chain, but it will "look" like I made it after putting it on my own plate! :-) So, I vote dessert a meal course for the LUG meeting. Anyone second the motion? From slestak989 at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:49:06 2007 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:49:06 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> Casey DuBois wrote: > Hey Steve, > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > How big of a truck do you have? > Casey > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > To: grlug at grlug.org > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > Greg Folkert wrote: > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: >> >> >>> Casey DuBois wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello LUGgers, >>>> >>>> It's time for another meeting. >>>> >>>> Wednesday December 5th. >>>> From: 6-8PM >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia >>>> >>>> >> [snippage] >> >> >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday >>> night in Kentwood? >>> >>> >> Where exactly in Kentwood? >> >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. >> >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is >> flexible *now*.... >> >> > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed am. > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as a > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been able > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even got > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont have > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team > members. > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > Steve > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming as well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. I will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on the list :) Steve From geektoyz at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 19:49:59 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:49:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Hey Godwin, Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? Casey -----Original Message----- From: Casey DuBois [mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM Hello LUGgers, It's time for another meeting. Wednesday December 5th. From: 6-8PM Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. Please contact me with any questions or concerns. See you ALL next week. P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone that wants to sift thru it. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > Hey Steve, > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > How big of a truck do you have? > > Casey > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > >>>> > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > >>>> > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > >>>> From: 6-8PM > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > >>>> > >>>> > >> [snippage] > >> > >> > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday > >>> night in Kentwood? > >>> > >>> > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > >> > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > >> > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is > >> flexible *now*.... > >> > >> > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed am. > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as a > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been able > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even got > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont have > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team > > members. > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > > > Steve > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> grlug mailing list > >> grlug at grlug.org > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming as > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. I > will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on > the list :) > > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From geektoyz at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 19:53:08 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:53:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 6:33 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote: > "I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring dessert > to the meeting." > > Jorge, you get some bonus points here. My contribution to dessert for any > office function is normally something from the local vending machine. > However, you've inspired me to also offer a contribution of something sweet. > It may, or may not, come from a local large grocery chain, but it will > "look" like I made it after putting it on my own plate! :-) So, I vote > dessert a meal course for the LUG meeting. Anyone second the motion? > Haaa! I second, third, fourth, fifth and even sixth that motion... ;-) G- > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 20:12:22 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:12:22 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: no objections on pineapple upside down cake? On Dec 3, 2007 7:53 PM, Godwin wrote: > On Dec 3, 2007 6:33 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote: > > "I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring > dessert > > to the meeting." > > > > Jorge, you get some bonus points here. My contribution to dessert for > any > > office function is normally something from the local vending machine. > > However, you've inspired me to also offer a contribution of something > sweet. > > It may, or may not, come from a local large grocery chain, but it will > > "look" like I made it after putting it on my own plate! :-) So, I vote > > dessert a meal course for the LUG meeting. Anyone second the motion? > > > > > > Haaa! I second, third, fourth, fifth and even sixth that motion... ;-) > > G- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/7e3e9e22/attachment.htm From ndrier at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 08:21:18 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:21:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 8:12 PM, Jorge La wrote: > no objections on pineapple upside down cake? > > > None at all! Ill compile all the beer I have in the fridge and bring that along as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/d58ce0ed/attachment.htm From ndrier at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 08:50:56 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:50:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712040550m610b14a4m2479087b6450544a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 5:05 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > Demonstrating category creep here, > let me just comment that resistive heating > is an expensive way to heat your room > > And the flip side is A/C, which simply has > to remove the heat. Overall this is a bad > strategy - better to get the dual core someone > else suggested.... > > You might get a few points extra in some > global warming class that way, or maybe > even an award for being so environmentally > friendly. You just keep on winning.. > > -Bob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Eh, it was just a bad joke about using it as a heater.... I did some looking at power consumption - and its pretty crazy where the Pentium D's really sit..... Pentium D 940 3.2 GHZ 130 Watts P4 Mobile 2.0GHZ 21 Watts Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHZ 65 Watts Core 2 Quad 3.0GHZ 130 Watts AMD X2 5400+ 89 Watts Turion X2 2.0 GHZ 35 Watts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_dissipation Dont video cards these days draw upwards of a couple hundred watts by themselves? Nate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/2d4fdafc/attachment-0001.htm From cdubois at n-vint.com Tue Dec 4 09:46:56 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:46:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF996A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Pineapple Upside Down Cake is my Favorite..... Casey ________________________________ From: Nathan [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:21 AM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? On Dec 3, 2007 8:12 PM, Jorge La > wrote: no objections on pineapple upside down cake? None at all! Ill compile all the beer I have in the fridge and bring that along as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/a58aa7b5/attachment.htm From matt at michielsen.us Tue Dec 4 10:21:09 2007 From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:21:09 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll be there. Anyone from Holland/Zeeland want to carpool? -mm On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > Hey Godwin, > Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? > Casey > > -----Original Message----- > From: Casey DuBois [mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM > To: grlug at grlug.org > Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can > make sure to have enough. > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, > Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so > Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or > planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > See you ALL next week. > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone > that wants to sift thru it. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > - Linus Torvalds > > On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > > > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > > Hey Steve, > > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > > How big of a truck do you have? > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from > 6-8PM > > > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > > >>>> > > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > > >>>> > > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > > >>>> From: 6-8PM > > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >> [snippage] > > >> > > >> > > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday > > >>> night in Kentwood? > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > > >> > > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > >> > > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is > > >> flexible *now*.... > > >> > > >> > > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at > > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > > > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed > am. > > > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have > > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as > a > > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been > able > > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even > got > > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > > > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont > have > > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based > > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team > > > members. > > > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the > > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> grlug mailing list > > >> grlug at grlug.org > > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming as > > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another > > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice > > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my > > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to > > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. > > > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. I > > will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on > > the list :) > > > > > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/96771b24/attachment-0001.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 14:50:10 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:50:10 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions Message-ID: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> I was chugging along installing some gentoo on a new PC when I found that the darn thing wouldn't boot. I checked my kernel opts and everything was hunk-dory, BIOS was fine, everything looked great. So I attached a PATA drive, copied my boot junk to it. Configured and re-ran lilo to accommodate, and it booted fine... I was gonna just leave it that way, but pride got the best of me. I ain't gonna be stumped by no silicon. What prevented me then? The Intel BIOS won't boot from a partition that is not marked as active. I blame the BIOS, because I have a dozen more gentoo boxes that boot just fine without me having to mark one partition as active. I thought the idea of a active partition was related to Windows. No? FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. The BIOS version is PE94510M.86A.0050.2007.0710.1559. So if anybody gets a new Intel Desktop MB, keep it in mind that you'll have to mark your boot partition as active $ fdisk -> a /dev/device_name -> w I installed the MBR onto /dev/sda1, because fdisk makes you select a partition to make active. Purist would argue that the MBR should only be installed onto /dev/sda, but I think that has to do with sector size and cylinder number issue that I feel are no longer pertinent today. -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/b2d0cb18/attachment.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 14:55:16 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:55:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF996A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF996A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <81e08d920712041155k673be751yb32a789074482fdd@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 9:46 AM, Casey DuBois wrote: > Pineapple Upside Down Cake is my Favorite?.. > > Casey > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Nathan [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:21 AM > *To:* grlug at grlug.org > *Subject:* Re: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 8:12 PM, Jorge La wrote: > > no objections on pineapple upside down cake? > > > > > None at all! Ill compile all the beer I have in the fridge and bring that > along as well. > > > > Compile the beer? Now there's something that will run on any OS, though I would steer clear of the late night emails to people you haven't spoken to in more than a week. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/beee08e2/attachment.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 15:00:29 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:00:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 2:50 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. Obviously, opinions differ. > I installed the MBR onto /dev/sda1, because fdisk makes you select a > partition to make active. Purist would argue that the MBR should only be > installed onto /dev/sda, but I think that has to do with sector size and > cylinder number issue that I feel are no longer pertinent today. I'll assume by 'MBR' you mean the bootloader - LILO in this case. The MBR, being the a region of the disk (the first 512 bytes), can't be 'installed' onto one of the disk's partitions. As far as installing the bootloader in a partition, it's perfectly acceptable behavior - especially in certain multi-boot configurations. Sounds like, if you'd installed the bootloader into the MBR, instead of a partition, your BIOS may not have had an issue booting the drive (my brand-new Intel board at home certainly doesn't). --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 15:31:34 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:31:34 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 3:00 PM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > > On Dec 4, 2007 2:50 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > > Obviously, opinions differ. > > > > I installed the MBR onto /dev/sda1, because fdisk makes you select a > > partition to make active. Purist would argue that the MBR should only be > > installed onto /dev/sda, but I think that has to do with sector size and > > cylinder number issue that I feel are no longer pertinent today. > > I'll assume by 'MBR' you mean the bootloader - LILO in this case. The > MBR, being the a region of the disk (the first 512 bytes), can't be > 'installed' onto one of the disk's partitions. As far as installing > the bootloader in a partition, it's perfectly acceptable behavior - > especially in certain multi-boot configurations. Sounds like, if > you'd installed the bootloader into the MBR, instead of a partition, > your BIOS may not have had an issue booting the drive (my brand-new > Intel board at home certainly doesn't). If that is what is sounded like why would I have bothered to debug to an issue that never even existed, and if that were the case, I would not have posted the message. Though your comment had inspired me. Seems my solution is invalid as it was not needed for your new Intel Board at home. And I hate fragile solutions. Looking deeper into the matter When booting (i.e., starting) a computer, the master boot record (MBR) looks at the partition table and selects the primary partition that is marked active in that table. The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). http://www.linfo.org/active_partition.html Seems that unlike other BIOS that I have used in the past, this particular one, unlike the Tim's, required that at least one partition be marked as active. I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. I assume this would work with grub as well if not, your just going to have to wait. They have scrapped the project altogether, GRUB 2 will be more promising. > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 17:28:08 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:28:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh, I'm also gonna bring this laptop that I cant get Ubuntu to work on to the meeting. Hope someone can solve my problem. On Dec 4, 2007 10:21 AM, Matt Michielsen wrote: > I'll be there. Anyone from Holland/Zeeland want to carpool? > > -mm > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > > > Hey Godwin, > > Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? > > Casey > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Casey DuBois [mailto: cdubois at n-vint.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > > Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > > > > > Hello LUGgers, > > > > It's time for another meeting. > > > > Wednesday December 5th. > > From: 6-8PM > > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > > > > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can > > make sure to have enough. > > > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" > > > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, > > Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so > > Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > > We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or > > planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > > > See you ALL next week. > > > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone > > that wants to sift thru it. > > > > Sincerely, > > Casey M. DuBois > > N-VINT, Inc. > > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > > 616-656-5500 Office > > 866-337-2686 Direct > > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > > cdubois at n-vint.com > > > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > > - Linus Torvalds > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow < slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > > > Hey Steve, > > > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > > > How big of a truck do you have? > > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th > > from 6-8PM > > > > > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > > > >>>> From: 6-8PM > > > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >> [snippage] > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me > > Tuesday > > > >>> night in Kentwood? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > > > >> > > > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > > >> > > > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule > > is > > > >> flexible *now*.... > > > >> > > > >> > > > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house > > at > > > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > > > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > > > > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed > > am. > > > > > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I > > have > > > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of > > as a > > > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > > > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been > > able > > > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even > > got > > > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > > > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > > > > > > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont > > have > > > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell > > based > > > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > > > > > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > > > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my > > team > > > > members. > > > > > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for > > the > > > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> grlug mailing list > > > >> grlug at grlug.org > > > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming > > as > > > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another > > > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice > > > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my > > > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to > > > > > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. > > > > > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. > > I > > > will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on > > > > > the list :) > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ubber::Geek > > http://grlug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/6bc38722/attachment-0001.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 19:00:54 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:00:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up > in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also > contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS > (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). Sorry. The MBR isn't a program at all. It's literally the region of a partitioned hard disk encompassing the first 512 bytes of that disk, and may contain any number of useful things (including programs) but a program it is not. In other words, the MBR - being a very specific region of a disk - may contain the partition table for that disk, a bootloader (or other useful program - usually executed by the BIOS), a unique disk ID, etc. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record > I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the > [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. So after all that, I was right. --tim From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 19:11:02 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:11:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 4, 2007 7:00 PM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > > The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up > > in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also > > contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS > > (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). > > Sorry. The MBR isn't a program at all. It's literally the region of > a partitioned hard disk encompassing the first 512 bytes of that disk, > and may contain any number of useful things (including programs) but a > program it is not. In other words, the MBR - being a very specific > region of a disk - may contain the partition table for that disk, a > bootloader (or other useful program - usually executed by the BIOS), a > unique disk ID, etc. See: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record Sorry to be pedantic, but that bootloader is, itself, x86 machine code; A small program. Boot-sector viruses used to be impressive in that they managed to replace the MBR with themselves while still accomplishing what the MBR was supposed to do. (At least, on DOS systems. I imagine if a boot sector virus replaced your LILO MBR, you'd be SOL.) > > > I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the > > [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. > > So after all that, I was right. > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From dond at standalelumber.com Tue Dec 4 19:17:51 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:17:51 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196813871.9223.2.camel@donw-laptop> Great idea! I have one myself! On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 17:28 -0500, Jorge La wrote: > Oh, I'm also gonna bring this laptop that I cant get Ubuntu to work on > to the meeting. Hope someone can solve my problem. > > > > On Dec 4, 2007 10:21 AM, Matt Michielsen wrote: > > > I'll be there. Anyone from Holland/Zeeland want to carpool? > > -mm > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > > > Hey Godwin, > Could you please post this meeting date and time on > the grlug.org site? > Casey > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Casey DuBois [mailto: cdubois at n-vint.com] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday > the 5th from 6-8PM > > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, > Caledonia > > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to > cdubois at n-vint.com so I can > make sure to have enough. > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide > Linux" > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber > uses Linux (ltsp, > Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to > migrate 40 or so > Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > We are also interested in hearing how other companies > are using or > planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > See you ALL next week. > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE > Hardware for anyone > that wants to sift thru it. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI > 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy > operating systems." > - Linus Torvalds > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow < > slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > > Hey Steve, > > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > > How big of a truck do you have? > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - > Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > > >>>> > > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > > >>>> > > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > > >>>> From: 6-8PM > > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive > SE, Caledonia > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >> [snippage] > > >> > > >> > > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a > truck with me Tuesday > > >>> night in Kentwood? > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > > >> > > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > >> > > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 > ET). But my schedule is > > >> flexible *now*.... > > >> > > >> > > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. > I get the house at > > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until > the sun drops to > > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? > I have 2 movers > > > coming, but really want to get this done since the > truck is due Wed am. > > > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on > enterpise linux. I have > > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux > professionally instead of as a > > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, > even as a msft > > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature > sets and I;ve been able > > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, > imagemagick, gimp, even got > > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for > "special projects". > > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've > always been able to > > > produce results. In our business (wholesale > distribution) we dont have > > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been > trying to sell based > > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit > in "building on the > > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux > guy" if it means my > > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving > problems for my team > > > members. > > > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I > can even pay for the > > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house > so late. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> grlug mailing list > > >> grlug at grlug.org > > >> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 > professional movers coming as > > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob > spring for another > > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, > they have a nice > > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was > able to get my > > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with > them giving it to > > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you > EVER need a favor. > > > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and > you cannot make it. I > > will give you property address as well. Not sure I > want my address on > > the list :) > > > > > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 19:40:45 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:40:45 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712041640i425864fem706fbb69fbdb61e1@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 7:11 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > Sorry to be pedantic, but that bootloader is, itself, x86 machine > code; A small program. Correct. The bootloader is software which resides in the MBR. However the two terms are nowhere near interchangable. This is exactly the point I'm trying to impress. --tim From billcreswell at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 06:46:01 2007 From: billcreswell at gmail.com (Bill Creswell) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 06:46:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52b088230712050346q4c82ef3etd79f732000482758@mail.gmail.com> I added this meeting to the wiki On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > Hey Godwin, > Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? > Casey > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/2d951c9f/attachment.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 08:06:57 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:06:57 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 7:00 PM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > > The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up > > in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also > > contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS > > (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). > > Sorry. The MBR isn't a program at all. It's literally the region of > a partitioned hard disk encompassing the first 512 bytes of that disk, > and may contain any number of useful things (including programs) but a > program it is not. In other words, the MBR - being a very specific > region of a disk - may contain the partition table for that disk, a > bootloader (or other useful program - usually executed by the BIOS), a > unique disk ID, etc. See: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record > > > I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the > > [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. > > So after all that, I was right. No. You were right about the MBR not being a program, a tangent that was applied only by your fortitude to correct my mistake of describing the solution to what the actual problem was. In conclusion, we all now know that the MBR is the physical area in a container, disk, volume, drive... etc. That's wonderful. However, it is important that we note one thing: The problem booting was not related to my description of the MBR, but rather that this particular board requires that there exist an active partition on the disk you are attemting to boot an OS from. > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 09:27:39 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:27:39 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 8:06 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > However, it is important that we note one thing: The problem booting was not > related to my description of the MBR, but rather that this particular board > requires that there exist an active partition on the disk you are attemting to > boot an OS from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding based on what you've written so far, is that the board requires either an active partiton (if, as you've done, the bootloader is installed in said partition), or for the bootloader to be installed in the MBR. Either situation results in a bootable system. The only combination that doesn't is a bootloader installed in a location other than the MBR, with no active partitions. This would match expected behavior on an x86 - some may be more forgiving than this, but they're not required to be. --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 09:44:47 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:44:47 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 9:27 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 8:06 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > However, it is important that we note one thing: The problem booting was not > > related to my description of the MBR, but rather that this particular board > > requires that there exist an active partition on the disk you are attemting to > > boot an OS from. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding based on what you've > written so far, is that the board requires either an active partiton > (if, as you've done, the bootloader is installed in said partition), > or for the bootloader to be installed in the MBR. Either situation > results in a bootable system. The only combination that doesn't is a > bootloader installed in a location other than the MBR, with no active > partitions. This would match expected behavior on an x86 - some may > be more forgiving than this, but they're not required to be. > No, the machine will not boot, regardless of where the bootloader is installed, if there isn't an active partition. Thus, far this is the only board I have seen exhibit this behavior. And it isn't Intel specific, as my older Intel board will boot w/o an active partition. > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:17:29 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:17:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 9:44 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > No, the machine will not boot, regardless of where the bootloader is > installed, if > there isn't an active partition. Thus, far this is the only board I > have seen exhibit > this behavior. And it isn't Intel specific, as my older Intel board > will boot w/o an > active partition. Hrmm... Shouldn't be the board's problem at that point. If the bootloader (in this case, LILO's first stage loader) is installed in the MBR, it's executed first thing after POST, and control of the system is then it it's hands alone. The BIOS no longer has an active role in the boot process past this point. So either your version of LILO requires an active partition, is misconfigured, improperly installed, or has a bug. see: http://axiom.anu.edu.au/~okeefe/p2b/power2bash/power2bash.html --tim From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Dec 5 10:26:31 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:26:31 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: [snip] > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. [snip] So, exactly why do you think this? I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They all SUCK. Care to enlighten me? FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every time you install a new kernel. Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote machines, compared to LILO. Of all the machines I've had not reboot properly, *recently*, all have been LILO. Same machines, once GRUB was installed and setup properly (being trivial to do), have not had a a single problem rebooting since. -- Greg Folkert -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/85c99b09/attachment.pgp From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:35:14 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:35:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:17 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 9:44 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > No, the machine will not boot, regardless of where the bootloader is > > installed, if > > there isn't an active partition. Thus, far this is the only board I > > have seen exhibit > > this behavior. And it isn't Intel specific, as my older Intel board > > will boot w/o an > > active partition. > > Hrmm... Shouldn't be the board's problem at that point. If the > bootloader (in this case, LILO's first stage loader) is installed in > the MBR, it's executed first thing after POST, and control of the > system is then it it's hands alone. The BIOS no longer has an active > role in the boot process past this point. So either your version of > LILO requires an active partition, is misconfigured, improperly > installed, or has a bug. > > see: http://axiom.anu.edu.au/~okeefe/p2b/power2bash/power2bash.html Thanks Tim, I thought the same thing too. But LILO (appears) to have not been called. LILO has a sort of debugger, that lets you know how far it got, if it was called at all. Since I see the "No Operating System Found / Invalid System Disk " sort of message, I concluded that the bootloader was never executed. Upon even further investigation I have found that LILO, requires an active partition. I feel pretty dumb now, and I will no longer taunt GRUB, though I am confused as to why the requisite does not follow all of my machines. Here's the link if you wish to read it. http://en.opensuse.org/SDB%3ALILO_fails%3A_Error_messages_and_their_interpretation > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:44:52 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:44:52 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712050744y6d80137crb164a6e7a6f79c68@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:35 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > Thanks Tim, I thought the same thing too. But LILO (appears) to have > not been called. LILO has a sort of > debugger, that lets you know how far it got, if it was called at all. > Since I see the "No Operating System > Found / Invalid System Disk " sort of message, I concluded that the > bootloader was never executed. Gotcha... yeah. That certainly means you weren't getting far past POST :) > Upon even further investigation I have found that LILO, requires an > active partition. > I feel pretty dumb now, and I will no longer taunt GRUB, though I am > confused as to why the requisite does not follow > all of my machines. Right... well, each machine is probably running slightly different versions. Could be that some distributors patched theirs, or just certain versions, or whatever. No way to know without a friendly changelog or bug tracker entry, mailing list message, or looking at the code itself. --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:50:55 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:50:55 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:26 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > [snip] > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > [snip] > > So, exactly why do you think this? > > I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, > MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 > and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They > all SUCK. > > Care to enlighten me? LILO has been my bootloader since I began using linux. I am a creature of habit. I used GRUB once, it failed me, so I have not gone back. Since I don't dual boot anything, and I only keep one kernel, booting is just a means to an end. I suppose if I had began using GRUB, and LILO had failed me, I would think differently. > > FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel > is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every > time you install a new kernel. Not a big deal, since running make install after compiling your kernel now prompts you. I'm not sure when that started, I think it happened after 2.6.10 or 2.6.12. > > Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but > it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting > kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. > > Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote > machines, compared to LILO. A piece of software that forgives operator error, should not be deemed more reliable than one that doesn't. > > Of all the machines I've had not reboot properly, *recently*, all have > been LILO. Was it LILO's fault? > > Same machines, once GRUB was installed and setup properly (being trivial > to do), have not had a a single problem rebooting since. > -- > Greg Folkert > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:56:59 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:56:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712050744y6d80137crb164a6e7a6f79c68@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050744y6d80137crb164a6e7a6f79c68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050756s2e5925cdg91a007ce163c6ea7@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:44 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 10:35 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > Thanks Tim, I thought the same thing too. But LILO (appears) to have > > not been called. LILO has a sort of > > debugger, that lets you know how far it got, if it was called at all. > > Since I see the "No Operating System > > Found / Invalid System Disk " sort of message, I concluded that the > > bootloader was never executed. > > Gotcha... yeah. That certainly means you weren't getting far past POST :) > > > Upon even further investigation I have found that LILO, requires an > > active partition. > > I feel pretty dumb now, and I will no longer taunt GRUB, though I am > > confused as to why the requisite does not follow > > all of my machines. > > Right... well, each machine is probably running slightly different > versions. Could be that some distributors patched theirs, or just > certain versions, or whatever. No way to know without a friendly > changelog or bug tracker entry, mailing list message, or looking at > the code itself. > LILO versions have no affect. 22.8 and 22.7.3 (my most common) have the same effect. FWIW, the version that failed me is 22.7.3, I have the same version on the older intel board w/o active partitions and it boot fine. I do believe that the Board/BIOS is the underlying cause. But if you follow the LILO instructions, making the partition active (as I did NOT) than you'll have no worries. > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Dec 5 11:50:58 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:50:58 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196873458.1833.166.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 10:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 10:26 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > > [snip] > > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > > [snip] > > > > So, exactly why do you think this? > > > > I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, > > MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 > > and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They > > all SUCK. > > > > Care to enlighten me? > > LILO has been my bootloader since I began using linux. I am a creature of habit. > I used GRUB once, it failed me, so I have not gone back. > Since I don't dual boot anything, and I only keep one kernel, booting > is just a means > to an end. I suppose if I had began using GRUB, and LILO had failed > me, I would think > differently. I started with something else, I can't remember what it was called. Perhaps it was LILO, but it wasn't called that when SLS Linux first came out. > > FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel > > is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every > > time you install a new kernel. > Not a big deal, since running make install after compiling your kernel > now prompts you. > I'm not sure when that started, I think it happened after 2.6.10 or 2.6.12. Hmmm, didn't know that. Until recently (few years) LILO couldn't go past the 1GB boundary on disk *RELIABLY*. Sure it has been able to for a long time, but you had to ensure you really has the *right* version of LILO. > > Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but > > it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting > > kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. > > > > Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote > > machines, compared to LILO. > > A piece of software that forgives operator error, should not be deemed more > reliable than one that doesn't. Nope, we are talking about NOT operator error, but DISTRO PROVIDER ERROR. Specifically RedHat Enterprise Linux v3 update 9 and v4 update 5. These machines had been upgraded since forever. Reboots are always fraught with problems when using LILO. Even when properly setup, there is a good chance that LILO will not properly detect the right setup. We are talking machines with 30+ disks and 2-5 drive controllers, about 8 kernels (smp and up and revisions if problems occur with the new kernel) installed at any one time. One feature GRUB has is command line booting, in other words, even *IF* someone blows away the menu.lst, you can still boot the machine FROM the GRUB prompt, assuming you know how to do this. LILO failure == booting a recovery disk and hopefully having the recovery disk evaluate the numerous disk in the same order so that LILO writes the (apparent) MBR properly. > > Of all the machines I've had not reboot properly, *recently*, all have > > been LILO. > > Was it LILO's fault? Actually it was. 30+ disks, some as mirrors of others (especially the booting partition) causes LILO to get confused occasionally. It works 99% of the time, but fails 1%. It fails at the least opportune time, as has been my luck. I still have about 70% of legacy machines using LILO, so don't think I am "fringe" case. I have 2 new machines using LILO, as we have a requirement to use XFS only on any filesystems... its a "third party" app that the vendor has "strict requirements"... and they have installed new kernels and lotsa other stuff rebooted that machine... and have had to pay to have someone "work" on the machine to get it to boot. And yes, its been operator error in this case. FYI on that, they recently went from supporting ONLY Solaris 9 on SPARC hardware, to RHEL v4 update 3 setup this way. These machines are now, 2 quad core processors, blahblahblah machine with 3.5GB of memory (running ia32 kernels). I am tempted to migrate them to VMs, as the machines *NEVER* see any load average above 0.2. I'll bet I could do it without them even knowing. Until its is too late for them. FWIW, GRUB never needs to be re-run. You just change the config file. If you make a mistake in that... you have the "edit" function available to fix the problem (at boot) OR you can go into command line and manually load the kernel yourself. So, given that we are all prone to mistakes in any case, which one would you use, based on using Linux for your CORE business model and application serving? > > Same machines, once GRUB was installed and setup properly (being trivial > > to do), have not had a a single problem rebooting since. -- Greg Folkert -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/aada4199/attachment.pgp From cdubois at n-vint.com Wed Dec 5 11:59:17 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:59:17 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] **Reminder** GRLUG Meeting TONIGHT - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9AC7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> **REMINDER** GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) December Meeting Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. Our Agenda will be "Enterprise Wide Linux" Don Wood will be discussing how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so Windows thin client users by the end of 2008, we are also interested in discussing how other local companies are using or planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. Date and Time: TONIGHT - Wednesday December 5th 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00) Location: N-Vint, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 links to local LUG's Grand Rapids Linux Users Group www.grlug.org West Michigan Linux Users Group www.wmlug.org P.S. I have 3 skids of FREE hardware for anyone that would like to sift thru it. Please contact me with any questions or concerns. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas John Watson - IBM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/d0b2faa8/attachment-0001.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 12:19:53 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:19:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <1196873458.1833.166.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> <1196873458.1833.166.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050919y751348d9ve924bfd67b3e046f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 11:50 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 10:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > > On Dec 5, 2007 10:26 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > > > [snip] > > > > > > So, exactly why do you think this? > > > > > > I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, > > > MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 > > > and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They > > > all SUCK. > > > > > > Care to enlighten me? > > > > LILO has been my bootloader since I began using linux. I am a creature of habit. > > I used GRUB once, it failed me, so I have not gone back. > > Since I don't dual boot anything, and I only keep one kernel, booting > > is just a means > > to an end. I suppose if I had began using GRUB, and LILO had failed > > me, I would think > > differently. > > I started with something else, I can't remember what it was called. > > Perhaps it was LILO, but it wasn't called that when SLS Linux first came > out. > > > > FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel > > > is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every > > > time you install a new kernel. > > Not a big deal, since running make install after compiling your kernel > > now prompts you. > > I'm not sure when that started, I think it happened after 2.6.10 or 2.6.12. > > Hmmm, didn't know that. > > Until recently (few years) LILO couldn't go past the 1GB boundary on > disk *RELIABLY*. Sure it has been able to for a long time, but you had > to ensure you really has the *right* version of LILO. > > > > Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but > > > it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting > > > kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. > > > > > > Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote > > > machines, compared to LILO. > > > > A piece of software that forgives operator error, should not be deemed more > > reliable than one that doesn't. > > Nope, we are talking about NOT operator error, but DISTRO PROVIDER > ERROR. Specifically RedHat Enterprise Linux v3 update 9 and v4 update 5. > > These machines had been upgraded since forever. Reboots are always > fraught with problems when using LILO. Even when properly setup, there > is a good chance that LILO will not properly detect the right setup. > > We are talking machines with 30+ disks and 2-5 drive controllers, about > 8 kernels (smp and up and revisions if problems occur with the new > kernel) installed at any one time. > > One feature GRUB has is command line booting, in other words, even *IF* > someone blows away the menu.lst, you can still boot the machine FROM the > GRUB prompt, assuming you know how to do this. > > LILO failure == booting a recovery disk and hopefully having the > recovery disk evaluate the numerous disk in the same order so that LILO > writes the (apparent) MBR properly. > > > > Of all the machines I've had not reboot properly, *recently*, all have > > > been LILO. > > > > Was it LILO's fault? > > Actually it was. 30+ disks, some as mirrors of others (especially the > booting partition) causes LILO to get confused occasionally. It works > 99% of the time, but fails 1%. It fails at the least opportune time, as > has been my luck. I still have about 70% of legacy machines using LILO, > so don't think I am "fringe" case. > > I have 2 new machines using LILO, as we have a requirement to > use XFS only on any filesystems... its a "third party" app that > the vendor has "strict requirements"... and they have installed > new kernels and lotsa other stuff rebooted that machine... and > have had to pay to have someone "work" on the machine to get it > to boot. And yes, its been operator error in this case. > > FYI on that, they recently went from supporting ONLY Solaris 9 > on SPARC hardware, to RHEL v4 update 3 setup this way. These > machines are now, 2 quad core processors, blahblahblah machine > with 3.5GB of memory (running ia32 kernels). I am tempted to > migrate them to VMs, as the machines *NEVER* see any load > average above 0.2. I'll bet I could do it without them even > knowing. Until its is too late for them. > > FWIW, GRUB never needs to be re-run. You just change the config file. If > you make a mistake in that... you have the "edit" function available to > fix the problem (at boot) OR you can go into command line and manually > load the kernel yourself. I do like this feature of GRUB. My fix has always been, reboot with a LiveCD, chroot, and fix the issue. For me this is more convenient than learning GRUB's CLI. > > So, given that we are all prone to mistakes in any case, which one would > you use, based on using Linux for your CORE business model and > application serving? I will continue to use LILO, until it has costs money. I use the word "free" to emphasize *nix qualities a lot, but I am not so stubborn as to stick with a dog that won't hunt. if (FOSS > $0.00) grep lightbulb /dev/brain fi Thanks a lot for all of the feed back > > > > > Same machines, once GRUB was installed and setup properly (being trivial > > > to do), have not had a a single problem rebooting since. > > -- > Greg Folkert > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From topher at wcsg.org Wed Dec 5 15:25:40 2007 From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:25:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic Message-ID: I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on my high speed connection. Anyone have it? Topher Manager of Internet Services Cornerstone University Radio ------ "When little is known, much is imagined." -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa From cdubois at n-vint.com Wed Dec 5 15:28:02 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:28:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> I have it on DVD if you would like to copy. Casey -----Original Message----- From: Topher [mailto:topher at wcsg.org] Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:26 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on my high speed connection. Anyone have it? Topher Manager of Internet Services Cornerstone University Radio ------ "When little is known, much is imagined." -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From jtr at jrichards.org Wed Dec 5 15:45:45 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:45:45 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:28:02PM -0500, Casey DuBois wrote: >> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, >> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected >> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. >> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on >> my high speed connection. >> >> Anyone have it? > > I have it on DVD if you would like to copy. Wow. That was easy (cue big, red button...'that was easy...'). Lemme try. I own an old computer. I want it in a newer/better/faster format, quad-core with multiple terabytes or something. I have a keyboard, but it's not connected (to the new box) so it's awful to use. I could get it online and pay for it, but I want it NOW. I thought about building it, but it would take too many dollars to make on my low-speed budget. Anyone have it? :-) -- john-thomas ------ A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. Henry David Thoreau, naturalist and author (1817-1862) From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 16:15:01 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:15:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't have it, but I do find myself with about a dozen Disney cartoons on DVD and no use for them. The usual stuff. Dumbo. Cinderella. Also Wizard of Oz, and a number of Winnie the Poh DVDs. Anyone with small kids might be interested before I take them to the mission. i.e., they are free. -Bob On Dec 5, 2007 3:25 PM, Topher wrote: > I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > my high speed connection. > > Anyone have it? > > Topher > Manager of Internet Services > Cornerstone University Radio > > ------ > "When little is known, much is imagined." > -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/e300d153/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 16:20:16 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:20:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a sudden urge to see pink elephants on parade. If Topher doesn't want it, can I bag Dumbo? On Dec 5, 2007 4:15 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > I don't have it, but I do find myself > with about a dozen Disney cartoons > on DVD and no use for them. The > usual stuff. Dumbo. Cinderella. > > Also Wizard of Oz, and a number of > Winnie the Poh DVDs. Anyone with > small kids might be interested before I > take them to the mission. > > i.e., they are free. > > -Bob > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 3:25 PM, Topher < topher at wcsg.org> wrote: > > I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > > mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > > and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > > I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > > my high speed connection. > > > > Anyone have it? > > > > Topher > > Manager of Internet Services > > Cornerstone University Radio > > > > ------ > > "When little is known, much is imagined." > > -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 16:14:22 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:14:22 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> Message-ID: On Dec 5, 2007 3:45 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:28:02PM -0500, Casey DuBois wrote: > >> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > >> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > >> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > >> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > >> my high speed connection. > >> > >> Anyone have it? > > > > I have it on DVD if you would like to copy. > > Wow. That was easy (cue big, red button...'that was easy...'). > > Lemme try. > > I own an old computer. I want it in a newer/better/faster format, > quad-core with multiple terabytes or something. I have a keyboard, but > it's not connected (to the new box) so it's awful to use. I could get > it online and pay for it, but I want it NOW. I thought about building > it, but it would take too many dollars to make on my low-speed budget. > > Anyone have it? > > :-) My buddy Van Andel might, but he'll have to contact you with the time and place to meet. My turn. Anyone got a 40mm case fan I can try hacking into place to replace my dead CPU fan? I'm leaving work early today to make it to the LUG meeting in Caledonia. -- :wq From topher at wcsg.org Wed Dec 5 16:22:18 2007 From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:22:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Michael Mol wrote: > I have a sudden urge to see pink elephants on parade. If Topher > doesn't want it, can I bag Dumbo? I'll take whatever Michael doesn't want. I have two princesses, ages 6 and 8. > > On Dec 5, 2007 4:15 PM, Bob Kline wrote: >> I don't have it, but I do find myself >> with about a dozen Disney cartoons >> on DVD and no use for them. The >> usual stuff. Dumbo. Cinderella. >> >> Also Wizard of Oz, and a number of >> Winnie the Poh DVDs. Anyone with >> small kids might be interested before I >> take them to the mission. >> >> i.e., they are free. >> >> -Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 5, 2007 3:25 PM, Topher < topher at wcsg.org> wrote: >>> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, >>> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected >>> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. >>> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on >>> my high speed connection. >>> >>> Anyone have it? >>> >>> Topher >>> Manager of Internet Services >>> Cornerstone University Radio >>> >>> ------ >>> "When little is known, much is imagined." >>> -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Topher Manager of Internet Services Cornerstone University Radio ------ "Civilization is simply an organization that man has developed in order that he may live in peace with his neighbors. Laws are the framework of that structure, and if a man develops a pattern of lawbreaking, he has no place in the organization at all." -- Louis L'Amour, Bendigo Shafter From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 16:23:01 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:23:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Re Dumbo, sure. The message was for everyone. Jump in if there's anything you want. Hmmm. Yes, I'd better put up a more complete list later. -Bob On Dec 5, 2007 4:20 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > I have a sudden urge to see pink elephants on parade. If Topher > doesn't want it, can I bag Dumbo? > > On Dec 5, 2007 4:15 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > I don't have it, but I do find myself > > with about a dozen Disney cartoons > > on DVD and no use for them. The > > usual stuff. Dumbo. Cinderella. > > > > Also Wizard of Oz, and a number of > > Winnie the Poh DVDs. Anyone with > > small kids might be interested before I > > take them to the mission. > > > > i.e., they are free. > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 3:25 PM, Topher < topher at wcsg.org> wrote: > > > I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital > format, > > > mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not > connected > > > and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it > NOW. > > > I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to > download on > > > my high speed connection. > > > > > > Anyone have it? > > > > > > Topher > > > Manager of Internet Services > > > Cornerstone University Radio > > > > > > ------ > > > "When little is known, much is imagined." > > > -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/a92117bd/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 16:24:37 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:24:37 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Done. They're all gone now. -Bob On Dec 5, 2007 4:22 PM, Topher wrote: > On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Michael Mol wrote: > > > I have a sudden urge to see pink elephants on parade. If Topher > > doesn't want it, can I bag Dumbo? > > I'll take whatever Michael doesn't want. I have two princesses, ages 6 > and 8. > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 4:15 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > >> I don't have it, but I do find myself > >> with about a dozen Disney cartoons > >> on DVD and no use for them. The > >> usual stuff. Dumbo. Cinderella. > >> > >> Also Wizard of Oz, and a number of > >> Winnie the Poh DVDs. Anyone with > >> small kids might be interested before I > >> take them to the mission. > >> > >> i.e., they are free. > >> > >> -Bob > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Dec 5, 2007 3:25 PM, Topher < topher at wcsg.org> wrote: > >>> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital > format, > >>> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not > connected > >>> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it > NOW. > >>> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to > download on > >>> my high speed connection. > >>> > >>> Anyone have it? > >>> > >>> Topher > >>> Manager of Internet Services > >>> Cornerstone University Radio > >>> > >>> ------ > >>> "When little is known, much is imagined." > >>> -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> grlug mailing list > >>> grlug at grlug.org > >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> grlug mailing list > >> grlug at grlug.org > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > Topher > Manager of Internet Services > Cornerstone University Radio > > ------ > "Civilization is simply an organization that man has developed in order > that > he may live in peace with his neighbors. Laws are the framework of that > structure, and if a man develops a pattern of lawbreaking, he has no place > in the organization at all." > -- Louis L'Amour, Bendigo Shafter > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/4953f811/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 16:25:48 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:25:48 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The princesses take priority. I can probably find the pink elephants on Youtube or an equivalent, anyhow. On Dec 5, 2007 4:22 PM, Topher wrote: > On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Michael Mol wrote: > > > I have a sudden urge to see pink elephants on parade. If Topher > > doesn't want it, can I bag Dumbo? > > I'll take whatever Michael doesn't want. I have two princesses, ages 6 > and 8. > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 4:15 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > >> I don't have it, but I do find myself > >> with about a dozen Disney cartoons > >> on DVD and no use for them. The > >> usual stuff. Dumbo. Cinderella. > >> > >> Also Wizard of Oz, and a number of > >> Winnie the Poh DVDs. Anyone with > >> small kids might be interested before I > >> take them to the mission. > >> > >> i.e., they are free. > >> > >> -Bob > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Dec 5, 2007 3:25 PM, Topher < topher at wcsg.org> wrote: > >>> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > >>> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > >>> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > >>> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > >>> my high speed connection. > >>> > >>> Anyone have it? > >>> > >>> Topher > >>> Manager of Internet Services > >>> Cornerstone University Radio > >>> > >>> ------ > >>> "When little is known, much is imagined." > >>> -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> grlug mailing list > >>> grlug at grlug.org > >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> grlug mailing list > >> grlug at grlug.org > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > Topher > Manager of Internet Services > Cornerstone University Radio > > ------ > "Civilization is simply an organization that man has developed in order that > he may live in peace with his neighbors. Laws are the framework of that > structure, and if a man develops a pattern of lawbreaking, he has no place > in the organization at all." > -- Louis L'Amour, Bendigo Shafter > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From flanderb at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 16:37:03 2007 From: flanderb at gmail.com (Benjamin Flanders) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:37:03 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712041155k673be751yb32a789074482fdd@mail.gmail.com> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF996A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <81e08d920712041155k673be751yb32a789074482fdd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've got some White Zin I'll contribute. On Dec 4, 2007 2:55 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > > > On Dec 4, 2007 9:46 AM, Casey DuBois wrote: > > > Pineapple Upside Down Cake is my Favorite?.. > > > > Casey > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > *From:* Nathan [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] > > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:21 AM > > *To:* grlug at grlug.org > > *Subject:* Re: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 8:12 PM, Jorge La wrote: > > > > no objections on pineapple upside down cake? > > > > > > > > > > None at all! Ill compile all the beer I have in the fridge and bring > > that along as well. > > > > > > > > > Compile the beer? Now there's something that will run on any OS, though I > would steer clear of the late night emails to people you haven't spoken to > in more than a week. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > In vino veritas. > [In wine there is truth.] > -- Pliny > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Share and Enjoy Ben -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/adb3bccf/attachment.htm From jtr at jrichards.org Wed Dec 5 16:37:31 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 16:37:31 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071205213731.GA5148@jrichards.org> On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 04:25:48PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > The princesses take priority. I can probably find the pink elephants > on Youtube or an equivalent, anyhow. Dude, that could be *quite* dangerous. Yikes. [snip] -- john-thomas ------ Thank you for sending me a copy of your book - I'll waste no time in reading it. Moses Hadas, teacher and author (1900-1966) From dond at standalelumber.com Wed Dec 5 17:05:59 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:05:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> I have an 80 you can have. On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 16:14 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 3:45 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:28:02PM -0500, Casey DuBois wrote: > > >> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > > >> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > > >> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > > >> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > > >> my high speed connection. > > >> > > >> Anyone have it? > > > > > > I have it on DVD if you would like to copy. > > > > Wow. That was easy (cue big, red button...'that was easy...'). > > > > Lemme try. > > > > I own an old computer. I want it in a newer/better/faster format, > > quad-core with multiple terabytes or something. I have a keyboard, but > > it's not connected (to the new box) so it's awful to use. I could get > > it online and pay for it, but I want it NOW. I thought about building > > it, but it would take too many dollars to make on my low-speed budget. > > > > Anyone have it? > > > > :-) > > My buddy Van Andel might, but he'll have to contact you with the time > and place to meet. > > My turn. Anyone got a 40mm case fan I can try hacking into place to > replace my dead CPU fan? I'm leaving work early today to make it to > the LUG meeting in Caledonia. > > > From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 17:15:56 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:15:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: Now *that* would be an interesting hack. It'd have to funnel air to the heat sink on the CPU board of this machine: http://mikemol.multiply.com/photos/album/15/My_computer It would be amusing to give it a try, though I'd have to think of how to fit the 80mm fan into the case. On Dec 5, 2007 5:05 PM, Don Wood wrote: > I have an 80 you can have. > > > > On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 16:14 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 5, 2007 3:45 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:28:02PM -0500, Casey DuBois wrote: > > > >> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > > > >> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > > > >> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > > > >> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > > > >> my high speed connection. > > > >> > > > >> Anyone have it? > > > > > > > > I have it on DVD if you would like to copy. > > > > > > Wow. That was easy (cue big, red button...'that was easy...'). > > > > > > Lemme try. > > > > > > I own an old computer. I want it in a newer/better/faster format, > > > quad-core with multiple terabytes or something. I have a keyboard, but > > > it's not connected (to the new box) so it's awful to use. I could get > > > it online and pay for it, but I want it NOW. I thought about building > > > it, but it would take too many dollars to make on my low-speed budget. > > > > > > Anyone have it? > > > > > > :-) > > > > My buddy Van Andel might, but he'll have to contact you with the time > > and place to meet. > > > > My turn. Anyone got a 40mm case fan I can try hacking into place to > > replace my dead CPU fan? I'm leaving work early today to make it to > > the LUG meeting in Caledonia. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From topher at wcsg.org Wed Dec 5 17:18:28 2007 From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:18:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Bob Kline wrote: > Done. They're all gone now. *sniff* you guys rock. > > -Bob > > > On Dec 5, 2007 4:22 PM, Topher wrote: > >> On Wed, 5 Dec 2007, Michael Mol wrote: >> >>> I have a sudden urge to see pink elephants on parade. If Topher >>> doesn't want it, can I bag Dumbo? >> >> I'll take whatever Michael doesn't want. I have two princesses, ages 6 >> and 8. >> >> >>> >>> On Dec 5, 2007 4:15 PM, Bob Kline wrote: >>>> I don't have it, but I do find myself >>>> with about a dozen Disney cartoons >>>> on DVD and no use for them. The >>>> usual stuff. Dumbo. Cinderella. >>>> >>>> Also Wizard of Oz, and a number of >>>> Winnie the Poh DVDs. Anyone with >>>> small kids might be interested before I >>>> take them to the mission. >>>> >>>> i.e., they are free. >>>> >>>> -Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 5, 2007 3:25 PM, Topher < topher at wcsg.org> wrote: >>>>> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital >> format, >>>>> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not >> connected >>>>> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it >> NOW. >>>>> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to >> download on >>>>> my high speed connection. >>>>> >>>>> Anyone have it? >>>>> >>>>> Topher >>>>> Manager of Internet Services >>>>> Cornerstone University Radio >>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>> "When little is known, much is imagined." >>>>> -- Louis L'Amour, The Haunted Mesa >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> grlug mailing list >>>>> grlug at grlug.org >>>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> grlug mailing list >>>> grlug at grlug.org >>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> :wq >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>> >> >> Topher >> Manager of Internet Services >> Cornerstone University Radio >> >> ------ >> "Civilization is simply an organization that man has developed in order >> that >> he may live in peace with his neighbors. Laws are the framework of that >> structure, and if a man develops a pattern of lawbreaking, he has no place >> in the organization at all." >> -- Louis L'Amour, Bendigo Shafter >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > Topher Manager of Internet Services Cornerstone University Radio ------ "So we need to fill our website with relevant text that uses keywords we want to be recognized with and have lots of relevant reciprocal links" -Darrell Yoder, budding search engine genius From greg at gregfolkert.net Thu Dec 6 00:23:22 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:23:22 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> OK... If only I'd have read e-mail before just now tonight. I have Variable thermistor controlled 80MM fans *AND* 80MM to 60MM adapters. Most OEM fans for CPU are 60MM. Sheesh! (Yes Don, I did it! Just to be silly!) On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 17:15 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > Now *that* would be an interesting hack. It'd have to funnel air to > the heat sink on the CPU board of this machine: > > http://mikemol.multiply.com/photos/album/15/My_computer > > It would be amusing to give it a try, though I'd have to think of how > to fit the 80mm fan into the case. > > On Dec 5, 2007 5:05 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > I have an 80 you can have. > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 16:14 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > > On Dec 5, 2007 3:45 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:28:02PM -0500, Casey DuBois wrote: > > > > >> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > > > > >> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > > > > >> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > > > > >> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > > > > >> my high speed connection. > > > > >> > > > > >> Anyone have it? > > > > > > > > > > I have it on DVD if you would like to copy. > > > > > > > > Wow. That was easy (cue big, red button...'that was easy...'). > > > > > > > > Lemme try. > > > > > > > > I own an old computer. I want it in a newer/better/faster format, > > > > quad-core with multiple terabytes or something. I have a keyboard, but > > > > it's not connected (to the new box) so it's awful to use. I could get > > > > it online and pay for it, but I want it NOW. I thought about building > > > > it, but it would take too many dollars to make on my low-speed budget. > > > > > > > > Anyone have it? > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > My buddy Van Andel might, but he'll have to contact you with the time > > > and place to meet. > > > > > > My turn. Anyone got a 40mm case fan I can try hacking into place to > > > replace my dead CPU fan? I'm leaving work early today to make it to > > > the LUG meeting in Caledonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/684d3fda/attachment.pgp From mikemol at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 11:04:05 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 11:04:05 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: Thanks, Casey, for the awesome meeting. On 11/30/07, Casey DuBois wrote: > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > See you ALL next week. > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone that wants to sift thru it. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > - Linus Torvalds > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Dec 6 12:05:24 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:05:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] FYI - CodeMash 2008 in Sandusky Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B68@NVMBX01.nvint.local> -------- I'd like to ask for your help publicizing CodeMash (www.CodeMash.org), a community-driven, non-profit conference for software developers. CodeMash 2007 was a tremendous success, and our 2008 event will certainly surpass our 2007 accomplishments. CodeMash 2008 is being held 10 ??? 11 January, 2008, in Sandusky, Ohio. That's not far away at all, and the cheap hotel room rates ($88 per night) expire very shortly. Jim Holmes President, CodeMash Conference www.CodeMash.org From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Dec 6 12:40:56 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:40:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C469B8@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Thank you ALL for attending and making this one of the largest GRLUG meetings yet 30-people. Congratulations to Jim Czerew who won the HP Integrity RX5670 server (maybe we could recommend a Linux Operating system for him to install on this beast). For all those unable to attend SEE YOU NEXT TIME. Casey -----Original Message----- From: Michael Mol [mailto:mikemol at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:04 AM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM Thanks, Casey, for the awesome meeting. On 11/30/07, Casey DuBois wrote: > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > See you ALL next week. > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone that wants to sift thru it. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > - Linus Torvalds > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Dec 6 13:12:48 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:12:48 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] FW: Grand Rapids -Information Systems Security Association - Meeting Next Week Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C469C8@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Hi Guys, Lloyd was kind enough to post our GRLUG meeting to the GR-ISSA list so I am returning the favor. Grand Rapids - Information Systems Security Association homepage. http://www.gr-issa.org ________________________________ From: lloyd.guyot at spectrum-health.org [mailto:lloyd.guyot at spectrum-health.org] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:32 PM To: gr-issa-discuss at gr-issa.org Subject: [gr-issa-discuss] Reminder! GR-ISSA Meeting Next Week Reminder: GR-ISSA meeting next, Friday, December 14 . 2:30 PM - 5:00 PM ----------------------- Welcome to the Grand Rapids ISSA! We invite you and other security professionals you may know to join us next, Friday, December 14th for a great presentation on the Topic: "A Simple Approach to IT Risk Management" presented by Paul Prentice, Manager of IT Security, Risk, and Compliance, Steelcase Inc. Steelcase recognized as they were growing and becoming much more global, they needed to do more to identify and prioritize risks related to I.T. infrastructure and I.T. business applications. They had previously identified some of the major risks, but had no framework to be able to see all of the I.T. risks, how they compared to each other and prioritize them in a consistent fashion. Impact to the business and likelihood of occurrence are the measures they use to compare business I.T. risks, worldwide. In this session, Paul will walk you through a K.I.S.S. approach to building a framework for I.T. Risk Management. Along with this knowledge transfer we encourage you to take this opportunity to network with fellow Grand Rapids ISSA members and other attending security professionals. We look forward to seeing you! Below is our Agenda. More updates will follow. Your participation is greatly appreciated! Time: Social Networking: 2:30 PM - 3:00 PM Presentations: 3:00 PM - 4:30 PM Open Discussion: 4:30 PM - 5:00 PM Location: Steelcase Corporate Headquarters 901 44th ST Steelcase is located on the north east corner of 44th and Eastern. Park in the 44th ST guest lot and use the main front CHQ entrance. We will be meeting downstairs in the CHQ west multipurpose room next to the cafeteria. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Meetings: January 18, 2008 - "The Importance of Verifying Third Party Security Programs" presented by Rebecca Herold & Associates, LLC This discussion will present key points of what organizations should know about the risks involved with entrusting business processing, operations and data handling to third parties. Rebecca will explain to attendees, when you outsource critical data processing, operations and management activities, you must take action to stay in charge of your own business data security and minimize your business risks. You must hold your vendors to strict security standards. In many instances, the standards applied to vendors will be more stringent than your institution's internal security requirements. This presentation sponsored by The Pivot Group ---------------------------------------------- We would like to hear from you! Do you have a security topic you could present at an upcoming meeting? Please email the GR ISSA Executive Board at gr-issa-exec at gr-issa.org with details outlining your topic and availability. ---------------------------------------------- The GR ISSA Executive Board welcomes your comments and suggestions. Lloyd Guyot - President email: lloyd.guyot at spectrum-health.org Paul Melson - Vice President Ed Jaros - Membership Director Kevin Tyrrell - Treasurer Jason Link - Secretary ---------------------------------------------- Grand Rapids - Information Systems Security Association homepage. http://www.gr-issa.org Global - Information Systems Security Association homepage. http://www.issa.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/ea031bcc/attachment-0001.htm From dond at standalelumber.com Thu Dec 6 14:16:16 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:16:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> On Thu, 2007-12-06 at 00:23 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > OK... > > If only I'd have read e-mail before just now tonight. > > I have Variable thermistor controlled 80MM fans *AND* 80MM to 60MM > adapters. > > Most OEM fans for CPU are 60MM. > > Sheesh! > > (Yes Don, I did it! Just to be silly!) LOL! That is too funny! =D Did I do this right? Hello everybody (hello Don) and I'm a top poster (big awwwww from the crowd) today is the first day I haven't top posted > > > On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 17:15 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > Now *that* would be an interesting hack. It'd have to funnel air to > > the heat sink on the CPU board of this machine: > > > > http://mikemol.multiply.com/photos/album/15/My_computer > > > > It would be amusing to give it a try, though I'd have to think of how > > to fit the 80mm fan into the case. > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 5:05 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > > I have an 80 you can have. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 16:14 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > > > On Dec 5, 2007 3:45 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 03:28:02PM -0500, Casey DuBois wrote: > > > > > >> I own the old classic Grinch cartoon on VHS. I want it in digital format, > > > > > >> mpg or avi or something. I have a video importer, but it's not connected > > > > > >> and it's awful to use. I could get the DVD and rip it, but I want it NOW. > > > > > >> I tried BitTorrent, and it said it would only take 36 hours to download on > > > > > >> my high speed connection. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Anyone have it? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have it on DVD if you would like to copy. > > > > > > > > > > Wow. That was easy (cue big, red button...'that was easy...'). > > > > > > > > > > Lemme try. > > > > > > > > > > I own an old computer. I want it in a newer/better/faster format, > > > > > quad-core with multiple terabytes or something. I have a keyboard, but > > > > > it's not connected (to the new box) so it's awful to use. I could get > > > > > it online and pay for it, but I want it NOW. I thought about building > > > > > it, but it would take too many dollars to make on my low-speed budget. > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have it? > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > My buddy Van Andel might, but he'll have to contact you with the time > > > > and place to meet. > > > > > > > > My turn. Anyone got a 40mm case fan I can try hacking into place to > > > > replace my dead CPU fan? I'm leaving work early today to make it to > > > > the LUG meeting in Caledonia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From jtr at jrichards.org Thu Dec 6 14:51:13 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:51:13 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <20071206195113.GA26838@jrichards.org> On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 02:16:16PM -0500, Don Wood wrote: > On Thu, 2007-12-06 at 00:23 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > > OK... > > > > If only I'd have read e-mail before just now tonight. > > > > I have Variable thermistor controlled 80MM fans *AND* 80MM to 60MM > > adapters. > > > > Most OEM fans for CPU are 60MM. > > > > Sheesh! > > > > (Yes Don, I did it! Just to be silly!) > > LOL! That is too funny! =D > > Did I do this right? > > Hello everybody (hello Don) > and I'm a top poster (big awwwww from the crowd) > today is the first day I haven't top posted Rock. Now if you would just snip the extraneous stuff. ;-) [snip] -- john-thomas ------ Men make counterfeit money; in many more cases, money makes counterfeit men. Sydney J. Harris, journalist and author (1917-1986) From bob.kline at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 15:12:51 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:12:51 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: On Dec 6, 2007 2:16 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > Hello everybody (hello Don) > and I'm a top poster (big awwwww from the crowd) > today is the first day I haven't top posted > > In these parts that falls somewhere between being a child molester and an alcoholic. There are many people here who will help you see the error in your ways. Off line hopefully.... OK Don, would you like to tell the group when you first knew you were a top poster? Were you abused as a child.... -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/572ac0c7/attachment.htm From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Dec 6 15:15:42 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:15:42 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C469F7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> I'm a top poster also. Even after being part of the top/bottom posting debate we had. Casey ________________________________ From: Bob Kline [mailto:bob.kline at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:13 PM To: dond at standalelumber.com; grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] WAY off topic On Dec 6, 2007 2:16 PM, Don Wood > wrote: Hello everybody (hello Don) and I'm a top poster (big awwwww from the crowd) today is the first day I haven't top posted In these parts that falls somewhere between being a child molester and an alcoholic. There are many people here who will help you see the error in your ways. Off line hopefully.... OK Don, would you like to tell the group when you first knew you were a top poster? Were you abused as a child.... -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/479f5ac3/attachment-0001.htm From billcreswell at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 15:23:14 2007 From: billcreswell at gmail.com (Bill Creswell) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:23:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C469F7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9B08@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C469F7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <52b088230712061223i2e2d2ed6ibf10986852e73fae@mail.gmail.com> Long live TopPosters! On Dec 6, 2007 3:15 PM, Casey DuBois wrote: > I'm a top poster also. > > Even after being part of the top/bottom posting debate we had. > > Casey > -- billcreswell.wordpress.com billcreswell.com grcomputerworks.com http://billcreswell.wordpress.com/category/captioned-movie-trailers/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/e7d1e394/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 15:53:27 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 15:53:27 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WAY off topic In-Reply-To: <52b088230712061223i2e2d2ed6ibf10986852e73fae@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071205204545.GA792@jrichards.org> <1196892359.11875.0.camel@donw-laptop> <1196918602.1833.227.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1196968576.6807.6.camel@donw-laptop> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C469F7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <52b088230712061223i2e2d2ed6ibf10986852e73fae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 6, 2007 3:23 PM, Bill Creswell wrote: > Long live TopPosters! I do believe this thread has been TP'd. -- :wq From greg at gregfolkert.net Thu Dec 6 15:58:33 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:58:33 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] For those that think MSOOXML is a good idea... Message-ID: <1196974713.9495.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> I present to you: the Ballistic Missile Submarine "HMS Groklaw" http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071206131310362 Please read on. I'm all for interoperability, I've been a Samba specialist for quite a long time, I believe in equal access to all formats. BUt... hmmm the ECMA process is being de-railed by MS. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/e823f7e1/attachment.pgp From mikemol at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 16:03:56 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:03:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] For those that think MSOOXML is a good idea... In-Reply-To: <1196974713.9495.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1196974713.9495.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: On Dec 6, 2007 3:58 PM, Greg Folkert wrote: > I present to you: the Ballistic Missile Submarine "HMS Groklaw" > > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071206131310362 > > Please read on. I'm all for interoperability, I've been a Samba > specialist for quite a long time, I believe in equal access to all > formats. > > BUt... hmmm the ECMA process is being de-railed by MS. It still bothers me that ODF folded up. I've got documents scattered all over in their formats. I suppose we'll see if the promise of continued accessibility holds up. -- :wq From josh at hulst.ws Thu Dec 6 16:13:47 2007 From: josh at hulst.ws (Joshua Hulst) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:13:47 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] For those that think MSOOXML is a good idea... In-Reply-To: References: <1196974713.9495.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <200712061613.50415.josh@hulst.ws> On Thursday 06 December 2007 04:03:56 pm Michael Mol wrote: > It still bothers me that ODF folded up. I've got documents scattered > all over in their formats. I suppose we'll see if the promise of > continued accessibility holds up. I'm not sure what you mean by ODF folding up, if you are talking about the Open Document Foundation closing, this page seems to explain it pretty well. http://hackfud.net/2007/11/06/now-its-open-document-formats-turn-for-the-fudmeisters/ In general, the Open Document Foundation had very little to do with the current state of ODF and their closing has very little effect on the format. The support in Open Office and Koffice seems to guarantee it's existence so by all means, continue to use it. jwh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/f167e893/attachment-0001.pgp From mikemol at gmail.com Thu Dec 6 16:35:39 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 16:35:39 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] For those that think MSOOXML is a good idea... In-Reply-To: <200712061613.50415.josh@hulst.ws> References: <1196974713.9495.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <200712061613.50415.josh@hulst.ws> Message-ID: On Dec 6, 2007 4:13 PM, Joshua Hulst wrote: > On Thursday 06 December 2007 04:03:56 pm Michael Mol wrote: > > It still bothers me that ODF folded up. I've got documents scattered > > all over in their formats. I suppose we'll see if the promise of > > continued accessibility holds up. > > I'm not sure what you mean by ODF folding up, if you are talking about the > Open Document Foundation closing, this page seems to explain it pretty well. > http://hackfud.net/2007/11/06/now-its-open-document-formats-turn-for-the-fudmeisters/ > > In general, the Open Document Foundation had very little to do with the > current state of ODF and their closing has very little effect on the format. > The support in Open Office and Koffice seems to guarantee it's existence so > by all means, continue to use it. My concern, really, is whether or not Open Office and KOffice will continue to support it in the future. Bitrot doesn't just apply to Windows; Have you tried to run a libc5 application in the last five years? And, really, I like the format. It's essentially a directory tree of XML and public-format image files wrapped in a ZIP file, making it close to trivial to script automated document creation. Sure, I could write a program to convert it to RTF, but I'd rather not. -- :wq From josh at hulst.ws Thu Dec 6 17:04:29 2007 From: josh at hulst.ws (Joshua Hulst) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 17:04:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] For those that think MSOOXML is a good idea... In-Reply-To: References: <1196974713.9495.4.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <200712061613.50415.josh@hulst.ws> Message-ID: <200712061704.54159.josh@hulst.ws> On Thursday 06 December 2007 04:35:39 pm Michael Mol wrote: > And, really, I like the format. It's essentially a directory tree of > XML and public-format image files wrapped in a ZIP file, making it > close to trivial to script automated document creation. And there is the difference, it's not a binary file, it's an ISO format, and there are major players who use it (IBM is backing Open Office). I'm not saying that it will never go out of support, but the chances are good that it won't go out until there is something substantially better and used. And even if it does, as you said, you can write scripts to convert, either to RTF or to the next latest and greatest format. I guess my main point is that ODF is not dead, far from it, and we shouldn't be afraid of using it, in fact, we should do all we can to promote it. ODF for editable files, PDF for distributables :) jwh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071206/79f28e70/attachment.pgp From greg at gregfolkert.net Fri Dec 7 08:25:30 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:25:30 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Gutsy Gibbon - KVM install Message-ID: <1197033930.9495.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> http://www.howtoforge.com/using-kvm-on-ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon Looks pretty clear and insightful. You might need to actually get the latest version to get that other OS to run better. There are still some quirks, but I think the key is to load the proper kvm modules available for the specific processor you have. Now, even though VMware Workstation is not "free" or "Free" it does do a very nice job on a local machine. I get no problems running accelerated games on Windows... errrm, the last game I still play on Windows is DiabloII but not since... Forever But, I have had to run AutoCAD on Windows for a contract recently and it was admirable... very good in fact. It only started to have issues when I had to show all 10 million elements. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071207/dce8d133/attachment.pgp From dond at standalelumber.com Fri Dec 7 10:01:26 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 10:01:26 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Gutsy Gibbon - KVM install In-Reply-To: <1197033930.9495.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197033930.9495.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1197039687.7179.3.camel@donw-laptop> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 08:25 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > http://www.howtoforge.com/using-kvm-on-ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon > > > Looks pretty clear and insightful. > So is this better or just different than VirtualBox? From greg at gregfolkert.net Fri Dec 7 12:48:05 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:48:05 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Gutsy Gibbon - KVM install In-Reply-To: <1197039687.7179.3.camel@donw-laptop> References: <1197033930.9495.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1197039687.7179.3.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <1197049685.9495.41.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 10:01 -0500, Don Wood wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 08:25 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > > http://www.howtoforge.com/using-kvm-on-ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon > > > > > > Looks pretty clear and insightful. > > > > So is this better or just different than VirtualBox? In some ways, better. In most ways, different. Some ways not quite as good. Depends on what bugs/features/"undocumented features" you need or hit. IOW, YMMV, FWIW, GMTA-BFSD -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071207/30675ffc/attachment-0001.pgp From slestak989 at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 16:00:05 2007 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:00:05 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Gutsy Gibbon - KVM install In-Reply-To: <1197049685.9495.41.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197033930.9495.30.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1197039687.7179.3.camel@donw-laptop> <1197049685.9495.41.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <4759B455.4070607@gmail.com> Greg Folkert wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 10:01 -0500, Don Wood wrote: > >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 08:25 -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: >> >>> http://www.howtoforge.com/using-kvm-on-ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon >>> >>> >>> Looks pretty clear and insightful. >>> >>> >> So is this better or just different than VirtualBox? >> > > In some ways, better. In most ways, different. Some ways not quite as > good. Depends on what bugs/features/"undocumented features" you need or > hit. > > IOW, YMMV, FWIW, GMTA-BFSD > I am partial to virtualbox, just because for me it works _Good Enough_ and is much easier to install and use. From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 21:28:13 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:28:13 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow Message-ID: If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I brought my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running Ubuntu 64bit. It ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to me was to put 32bit Ubuntu on it. I did as told, and it now runs somewhat slow. the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing nothing and top says the thing doing the most processing is top itself. anymore help? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071207/1381d614/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 21:39:23 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:39:23 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And when you run top, nothing is pegged at the top of the list? On 12/7/07, Jorge La wrote: > If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I brought > my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running Ubuntu 64bit. It > ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to me was to put 32bit Ubuntu > on it. I did as told, and it now runs somewhat slow. > > the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing nothing and top > says the thing doing the most processing is top itself. > > > anymore help? > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 21:43:52 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:43:52 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW, I think I'm going crazy. Because these % on top dont seem possible. Sometimes top is at 50%, Xorg is always at about 50% or higher, and when I run Gnome System monitor, it runs at 82%. I miss my 300mhz celeron laptop with 256 RAM. It ran linux so nice. :( On Dec 7, 2007 9:39 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > And when you run top, nothing is pegged at the top of the list? > > On 12/7/07, Jorge La wrote: > > If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I > brought > > my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running Ubuntu 64bit. > It > > ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to me was to put 32bit > Ubuntu > > on it. I did as told, and it now runs somewhat slow. > > > > the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing nothing and > top > > says the thing doing the most processing is top itself. > > > > > > anymore help? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071207/50ae9bcb/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 22:06:08 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 22:06:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Something must be broken with your scheduler. Have you updated your system yet? On 12/7/07, Jorge La wrote: > WOW, I think I'm going crazy. Because these % on top dont seem possible. > Sometimes top is at 50%, Xorg is always at about 50% or higher, and when I > run Gnome System monitor, it runs at 82%. > > I miss my 300mhz celeron laptop with 256 RAM. It ran linux so nice. :( > > > > > On Dec 7, 2007 9:39 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > > And when you run top, nothing is pegged at the top of the list? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/7/07, Jorge La wrote: > > > If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I > brought > > > my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running Ubuntu 64bit. > It > > > ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to me was to put 32bit > Ubuntu > > > on it. I did as told, and it now runs somewhat slow. > > > > > > the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing nothing and > top > > > says the thing doing the most processing is top itself. > > > > > > > > > anymore help? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > -- > > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From slestak989 at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 22:51:48 2007 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 22:51:48 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <475A14D4.40500@gmail.com> Michael Mol wrote: > Something must be broken with your scheduler. Have you updated your system yet? > > On 12/7/07, Jorge La wrote: > >> WOW, I think I'm going crazy. Because these % on top dont seem possible. >> Sometimes top is at 50%, Xorg is always at about 50% or higher, and when I >> run Gnome System monitor, it runs at 82%. >> >> I miss my 300mhz celeron laptop with 256 RAM. It ran linux so nice. :( >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 7, 2007 9:39 PM, Michael Mol wrote: >> >>> And when you run top, nothing is pegged at the top of the list? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/7/07, Jorge La wrote: >>> >>>> If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I >>>> >> brought >> >>>> my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running Ubuntu 64bit. >>>> >> It >> >>>> ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to me was to put 32bit >>>> >> Ubuntu >> >>>> on it. I did as told, and it now runs somewhat slow. >>>> >>>> the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing nothing and >>>> >> top >> >>>> says the thing doing the most processing is top itself. >>>> >>>> >>>> anymore help? >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> grlug mailing list >>>> grlug at grlug.org >>>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> :wq >>> _______________________________________________ >>> grlug mailing list >>> grlug at grlug.org >>> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> >> > > > have you tried hdparm -tT to see if your getting good disk throughput? I had an amd athlon 64 in an averatec that was always underwelming. i ended up going off on it like the trailing scene of Office Space. "PC LOAD LETTER..." From slestak989 at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 22:53:08 2007 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 22:53:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <475A1524.1000109@gmail.com> maybe try booting another distro's livecd to see if it is an "ubuntu" prob lem, maybe knoppix or mandrake live. From ndrier at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 11:09:14 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan Drier) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:09:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: <475A1524.1000109@gmail.com> References: <475A1524.1000109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <475AC1AA.2070204@gmail.com> Steve Romanow wrote: > maybe try booting another distro's livecd to see if it is an "ubuntu" > prob lem, maybe knoppix or mandrake live. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Thats a good idea to try - grab a knoppix cd. I played with it for a little bit at the meeting, it sure was weird. Running top - both processors would idle at a couple percent each. The load never changed when opening programs...it just idled while it was opening anything. No heavy ram useage, no big disk I/O crunch. Firefox took a good 10 - 15 seconds to open. Even Nautilus was taking forever to open. Could it be some goofy chipset in the laptop that isnt well supported yet? Jorge - whats the make and model of that critter? Nate From darth_linux at ameritech.net Sat Dec 8 11:27:41 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:27:41 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] linux alternative? Message-ID: <200712081127.43014.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Hi all, Does anyone know if there is an alternative to Foxpro for Linux? A friend called saying they are running it in a VM on RedHat and it's not stable. thanks, eah From darth_linux at ameritech.net Sat Dec 8 11:30:44 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:30:44 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] installing XP in VM using Xen on Fedora Message-ID: <200712081130.44325.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Hello all, Does anyone have experience installing XP under Xen or Qemu? I'm trying to do it for Fedora8 using virt-manager. Qemu never finds the CD after XP reboots for the second phase of the install. Xen simply wont let me install from CD at all. thanks in advance for advise, eah From rvillarreal at mktec.com Sat Dec 8 11:24:10 2007 From: rvillarreal at mktec.com (Roberto Villarreal) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:24:10 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712081124.10749.rvillarreal@mktec.com> On Friday 07 December 2007, Jorge La wrote: > If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I > brought my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running > Ubuntu 64bit. It ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to > me was to put 32bit Ubuntu on it. I did as told, and it now runs > somewhat slow. > > the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing > nothing and top says the thing doing the most processing is top > itself. > > > anymore help? This is just a stab... but last year I bought a desktop Athlon 64x2 and had the opposite problem... it was *extremely* fast... never had a more responsive computer in my life. In my case, the downside is that my clock was also fast... the clock ran about three times faster than it should (i.e. in one "real" minute, three "computer" minutes had passed). After much searching, I found it had to do with interrupts... there was something weird about my chipset (it was pretty new at the time). The 'fix' for this was an upgraded kernel and some kernel parameters set via grub. Even if your problem isn't anything to do with interrupts, perhaps try a kernel upgrade or downgrade... Good luck, Roberto From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 18:39:53 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 18:39:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: <200712081124.10749.rvillarreal@mktec.com> References: <200712081124.10749.rvillarreal@mktec.com> Message-ID: I dont have my laptop on hand at the moment, but i'll tell you the info on the chip later on. I'm currently leaning on SuSE 10.3, downloading it now. I tried other distros that i had on hand earlier today-they're all pretty out of date because they originated before I left for the Army-and none of they worked any better. On Dec 8, 2007 11:24 AM, Roberto Villarreal wrote: > On Friday 07 December 2007, Jorge La wrote: > > If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I > > brought my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running > > Ubuntu 64bit. It ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to > > me was to put 32bit Ubuntu on it. I did as told, and it now runs > > somewhat slow. > > > > the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing > > nothing and top says the thing doing the most processing is top > > itself. > > > > > > anymore help? > > This is just a stab... but last year I bought a desktop Athlon 64x2 > and had the opposite problem... it was *extremely* fast... never had > a more responsive computer in my life. In my case, the downside is > that my clock was also fast... the clock ran about three times faster > than it should (i.e. in one "real" minute, three "computer" minutes > had passed). After much searching, I found it had to do with > interrupts... there was something weird about my chipset (it was > pretty new at the time). > > The 'fix' for this was an upgraded kernel and some kernel parameters > set via grub. Even if your problem isn't anything to do with > interrupts, perhaps try a kernel upgrade or downgrade... > > Good luck, > Roberto > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071208/79bd8388/attachment.htm From brousch at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 08:52:20 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 08:52:20 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] linux alternative? In-Reply-To: <200712081127.43014.darth_linux@ameritech.net> References: <200712081127.43014.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Dec 8, 2007 11:27 AM, eah wrote: > Hi all, > > Does anyone know if there is an alternative to Foxpro for Linux? A friend > called saying they are running it in a VM on RedHat and it's not stable. > > thanks, > > eah > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > In my experience with FoxPro (one industry-specific application used for 10 years now) it's not particularly stable even on Windows. As FoxPro is owned by Microsoft, you are really SOL as far as using it on Linux. Your only real alternative is to rewrite the application in something more platform independent. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071209/c667e9f6/attachment.htm From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 13:37:28 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:37:28 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Ubuntu Laptop Still Slow In-Reply-To: References: <200712081124.10749.rvillarreal@mktec.com> Message-ID: Hey! openSuSE 10.3 64 bit works great! :) it's actully REALLY fast. *shrugs* Looks like i'm gonna use SuSE now. On Dec 8, 2007 6:39 PM, Jorge La wrote: > I dont have my laptop on hand at the moment, but i'll tell you the info on > the chip later on. > > I'm currently leaning on SuSE 10.3, downloading it now. I tried other > distros that i had on hand earlier today-they're all pretty out of date > because they originated before I left for the Army-and none of they worked > any better. > > > On Dec 8, 2007 11:24 AM, Roberto Villarreal wrote: > > > On Friday 07 December 2007, Jorge La wrote: > > > If you weren't at the meeting earlier this week, you missed out. I > > > brought my new Laptop with an Athlon 64 x2 with 1gb RAM running > > > Ubuntu 64bit. It ran-more like walked-frick'n slow. The advice to > > > me was to put 32bit Ubuntu on it. I did as told, and it now runs > > > somewhat slow. > > > > > > the CPU is still stuck on 100% at 1.8ghz even when I'm doing > > > nothing and top says the thing doing the most processing is top > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > anymore help? > > > > This is just a stab... but last year I bought a desktop Athlon 64x2 > > and had the opposite problem... it was *extremely* fast... never had > > a more responsive computer in my life. In my case, the downside is > > that my clock was also fast... the clock ran about three times faster > > than it should ( i.e. in one "real" minute, three "computer" minutes > > had passed). After much searching, I found it had to do with > > interrupts... there was something weird about my chipset (it was > > pretty new at the time). > > > > The 'fix' for this was an upgraded kernel and some kernel parameters > > set via grub. Even if your problem isn't anything to do with > > interrupts, perhaps try a kernel upgrade or downgrade... > > > > Good luck, > > Roberto > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071210/04dce6b0/attachment-0001.htm From JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com Mon Dec 10 14:51:38 2007 From: JOlding at gts.gaineycorp.com (Olding, Jim) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 14:51:38 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Stop Mimedefang from scanning outgoing messages Message-ID: I am using MIMEdefang with Sendmail for spam filtering. Apparently by default, it also scans outgoing messages, which introduces a significant delay when trying to send out a weekly newsletter. Is there any way to stop it from scanning outgoing messages completely? Thanks, Jim From geektoyz at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 17:45:14 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:45:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712101445kb27aca3qe46a7f1b6adb434@mail.gmail.com> It make sense... This really isn't a super busy list after all. Prefix(ing) the subject with "one offs" questions has worked so far. Thanks. G- On Dec 2, 2007 9:36 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 2, 2007 1:24 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > My opinion would be to not bother > > for now. At present there is more > > discussion of multiple lists than > > discussion itself. If/when the current > > list becomes bogged down with > > meaningful entries it might be time to > > consider fragmenting the topics. > > For a community of this size, it really doesn't make sense to fragment > the mailing lists. Subtopic mailing lists will just grow stale as > people who were once on them stop participating. You can't really ask > every new person to sign up to the other mailing lists, because you > don't know who the new people are, or when they sign up. > > Joe newbie will write a message to the mailing list saying he's got a > PC for sale, and will be told by some person to another to take it to > the classifieds mailing list. Joe might subsequently post to the > sublist, but, chances are, anyone who might see it there already saw > it on the mailing list, and will have responded if they're interested, > regardless. > > I really prefer settling on prefixes for the subject line. Easy to > figure out once you've seen it, and easy to filter out, if you don't > care for it. FOR SALE is a good prefix for sales. WANTED is a good > prefix for anything someone might be looking for. > > I don't see how things like copyright (I remember when the argument > against DRM and the DMCA was that you couldn't watch the stuff on > Linux.) and bittorrent filtering (Remember when people used Linux > distros as a prime example of legitimate use?) are offtopic for the > list, but I suppose one could be pendantic and say anything not unique > to Linux could be prefixed with "GENERAL". But I still think you'd > see more general posts than posts without any prefix. > > -- > :wq > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From mzuverink at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 18:52:19 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:52:19 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712101445kb27aca3qe46a7f1b6adb434@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712101445kb27aca3qe46a7f1b6adb434@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3524effc0712101552h55b5c8e4o96db224c76d5264b@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 10, 2007 5:45 PM, Godwin wrote: > It make sense... This really isn't a super busy list after all. > Prefix(ing) the subject with "one offs" questions has worked so far. > Thanks. > > G- > > On Dec 2, 2007 9:36 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 2, 2007 1:24 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > > My opinion would be to not bother > > > for now. At present there is more > > > discussion of multiple lists than > > > discussion itself. If/when the current > > > list becomes bogged down with > > > meaningful entries it might be time to > > > consider fragmenting the topics. > > > > For a community of this size, it really doesn't make sense to fragment > > the mailing lists. Subtopic mailing lists will just grow stale as > > people who were once on them stop participating. You can't really ask > > every new person to sign up to the other mailing lists, because you > > don't know who the new people are, or when they sign up. > > > > Joe newbie will write a message to the mailing list saying he's got a > > PC for sale, and will be told by some person to another to take it to > > the classifieds mailing list. Joe might subsequently post to the > > sublist, but, chances are, anyone who might see it there already saw > > it on the mailing list, and will have responded if they're interested, > > regardless. > > > > I really prefer settling on prefixes for the subject line. Easy to > > figure out once you've seen it, and easy to filter out, if you don't > > care for it. FOR SALE is a good prefix for sales. WANTED is a good > > prefix for anything someone might be looking for. > > > > I don't see how things like copyright (I remember when the argument > > against DRM and the DMCA was that you couldn't watch the stuff on > > Linux.) and bittorrent filtering (Remember when people used Linux > > distros as a prime example of legitimate use?) are offtopic for the > > list, but I suppose one could be pendantic and say anything not unique > > to Linux could be prefixed with "GENERAL". But I still think you'd > > see more general posts than posts without any prefix. > > > > -- > > :wq > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > One list seems to be the best bet. Our list goes days and sometimes weeks with no posts, multiple lists would mean more work and a waste of server space and time. Prefixes are the way to go. -- Marc Zuverink I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. -Hunter S. Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071210/8135304d/attachment-0001.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 05:38:14 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:38:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm I'm not sure exactly what's being done here here, but do know that the RIAA and the MPAA would dearly love to control people's computer's so that nothing can be stored on people's personal hard drives that those monopolies don't approve of. ** Western Digital has blocked users from sharing more than 30 different file types, if they are using the company's software, called Anywhere Access. ** People like Orin Hatch, R-UT, point man for the MPAA and the RIAA, contemptuously claimed that if people didn't heed the wishes of those monopoly groups their PCs would be rendered useless. Never mind that he didn't know what he was talking about - the intent is clear enough. The question is whether a company like WD will try to implement a hardware solution - something that looks for a code in a file? I doubt the industry will stop looking for a way to prevent people from storing things on their PCs that it doesn't like. Failing that, it will continue to keep suing everyone in sight, but I suspect it would prefer PC control. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/8180d017/attachment.htm From darth_linux at ameritech.net Tue Dec 11 07:10:12 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:10:12 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712110710.13671.darth_linux@ameritech.net> On Tuesday 11 December 2007 05:38:14 am Bob Kline wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm > > I'm not sure exactly what's being > done here here, but do know that > the RIAA and the MPAA would > dearly love to control people's > computer's so that nothing can be > stored on people's personal hard > drives that those monopolies don't > approve of. > > ** > Western Digital has blocked users from sharing more than 30 different file > types, if they are using the company's software, called Anywhere Access. > ** > > People like Orin Hatch, R-UT, point man > for the MPAA and the RIAA, contemptuously > claimed that if people didn't heed the wishes > of those monopoly groups their PCs would > be rendered useless. Never mind that he didn't > know what he was talking about - the intent > is clear enough. > > The question is whether a company like WD > will try to implement a hardware solution - > something that looks for a code in a file? > > I doubt the industry will stop looking for a > way to prevent people from storing things > on their PCs that it doesn't like. Failing that, > it will continue to keep suing everyone in > sight, but I suspect it would prefer PC control. > > -Bob and it's the blanket policies of "that file type/protocol is used for illegal sharing" that makes computing less useful. If they had their way, the Internet would revert back to nothing but plaintext, information-only, no-attachments-allowed and e-commerce would die. sorry, that's a hot button for me :-) eah From sjhuffman at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 09:10:17 2007 From: sjhuffman at gmail.com (Scott Huffman) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:10:17 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: <200712110710.13671.darth_linux@ameritech.net> References: <200712110710.13671.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <9bfdb7e70712110610v225a79f2t57dca90258f7819c@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 11, 2007 7:10 AM, eah wrote: > > On Tuesday 11 December 2007 05:38:14 am Bob Kline wrote: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm > > > > I'm not sure exactly what's being > > done here here, but do know that > > the RIAA and the MPAA would > > dearly love to control people's > > computer's so that nothing can be > > stored on people's personal hard > > drives that those monopolies don't > > approve of. > > > > ** > > Western Digital has blocked users from sharing more than 30 different file > > types, if they are using the company's software, called Anywhere Access. > > ** > > > > People like Orin Hatch, R-UT, point man > > for the MPAA and the RIAA, contemptuously > > claimed that if people didn't heed the wishes > > of those monopoly groups their PCs would > > be rendered useless. Never mind that he didn't > > know what he was talking about - the intent > > is clear enough. > > > > The question is whether a company like WD > > will try to implement a hardware solution - > > something that looks for a code in a file? > > > > I doubt the industry will stop looking for a > > way to prevent people from storing things > > on their PCs that it doesn't like. Failing that, > > it will continue to keep suing everyone in > > sight, but I suspect it would prefer PC control. > > > > -Bob > > and it's the blanket policies of "that file type/protocol is used for illegal > sharing" that makes computing less useful. If they had their way, the > Internet would revert back to nothing but plaintext, information-only, > no-attachments-allowed and e-commerce would die. > > sorry, that's a hot button for me :-) > > eah > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > This is pretty ridiculous. Content providers like record companies and movie studios etc would have to add that to their terms and conditions. And who's to say that the mp3's I'm sharing with my family aren't just home-recorded songs? DRM is a horrible way to police restricted content. If they had gotten on the ball earlier with digital music and video, I doubt "illegal filesharing" would be such an issue. ~S From sjhuffman at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 09:26:02 2007 From: sjhuffman at gmail.com (Scott Huffman) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:26:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: <9bfdb7e70712110610v225a79f2t57dca90258f7819c@mail.gmail.com> References: <200712110710.13671.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <9bfdb7e70712110610v225a79f2t57dca90258f7819c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9bfdb7e70712110626yd02c127sbbf0d2af1bedc0f2@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 11, 2007 9:10 AM, Scott Huffman wrote: > > On Dec 11, 2007 7:10 AM, eah wrote: > > > > On Tuesday 11 December 2007 05:38:14 am Bob Kline wrote: > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm > > > > > > I'm not sure exactly what's being > > > done here here, but do know that > > > the RIAA and the MPAA would > > > dearly love to control people's > > > computer's so that nothing can be > > > stored on people's personal hard > > > drives that those monopolies don't > > > approve of. > > > > > > ** > > > Western Digital has blocked users from sharing more than 30 different file > > > types, if they are using the company's software, called Anywhere Access. > > > ** > > > > > > People like Orin Hatch, R-UT, point man > > > for the MPAA and the RIAA, contemptuously > > > claimed that if people didn't heed the wishes > > > of those monopoly groups their PCs would > > > be rendered useless. Never mind that he didn't > > > know what he was talking about - the intent > > > is clear enough. > > > > > > The question is whether a company like WD > > > will try to implement a hardware solution - > > > something that looks for a code in a file? > > > > > > I doubt the industry will stop looking for a > > > way to prevent people from storing things > > > on their PCs that it doesn't like. Failing that, > > > it will continue to keep suing everyone in > > > sight, but I suspect it would prefer PC control. > > > > > > -Bob > > > > and it's the blanket policies of "that file type/protocol is used for illegal > > sharing" that makes computing less useful. If they had their way, the > > Internet would revert back to nothing but plaintext, information-only, > > no-attachments-allowed and e-commerce would die. > > > > sorry, that's a hot button for me :-) > > > > eah > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > This is pretty ridiculous. Content providers like record companies > and movie studios etc would have to add that to their terms and > conditions. And who's to say that the mp3's I'm sharing with my > family aren't just home-recorded songs? DRM is a horrible way to > police restricted content. If they had gotten on the ball earlier > with digital music and video, I doubt "illegal filesharing" would be > such an issue. > > ~S > http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/12/riaa-files-supplemental-brief-in.html There's another example of the industry creeping on things like authorized copies. From dond at standalelumber.com Tue Dec 11 09:30:01 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:30:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: <9bfdb7e70712110610v225a79f2t57dca90258f7819c@mail.gmail.com> References: <200712110710.13671.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <9bfdb7e70712110610v225a79f2t57dca90258f7819c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197383401.6885.10.camel@donw-laptop> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 09:10 -0500, Scott Huffman wrote: > > > > This is pretty ridiculous. Content providers like record companies > and movie studios etc would have to add that to their terms and > conditions. And who's to say that the mp3's I'm sharing with my > family aren't just home-recorded songs? DRM is a horrible way to > police restricted content. If they had gotten on the ball earlier > with digital music and video, I doubt "illegal filesharing" would be > such an issue. > > ~S > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug What really surprises me is there is a digital revolution happening with media files and the format the users want them in. I don't want to have to buy a junk cd to get one song I like. I don't want to wait six months to a year after a movie hits the theater to get it on DVD. If I could find that song legally for a reasonable cost I would buy it. I know there are legal ways to do this now but in the days of napster there wasn't. They chose to fight this movement and still fight it to this day. I would assume it would have actually been cheaper and easier to brainstorm a new business model than to pay to fight these legal battles, attempt to place rootkits on user's machines and just shed an overall bad light on their business and practices. From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 10:48:51 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:48:51 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 5:38 AM, Bob Kline wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm > > I'm not sure exactly what's being > done here here, but do know that > the RIAA and the MPAA would > dearly love to control people's > computer's so that nothing can be > stored on people's personal hard > drives that those monopolies don't > approve of. > > ** > Western Digital has blocked users from sharing more than 30 different file > types, if they are using the company's software, called Anywhere Access. > ** > > People like Orin Hatch, R-UT, point man > for the MPAA and the RIAA, contemptuously > claimed that if people didn't heed the wishes > of those monopoly groups their PCs would > be rendered useless. Never mind that he didn't > know what he was talking about - the intent > is clear enough. > > The question is whether a company like WD > will try to implement a hardware solution - > something that looks for a code in a file? > > I doubt the industry will stop looking for a > way to prevent people from storing things > on their PCs that it doesn't like. Failing that, > it will continue to keep suing everyone in > sight, but I suspect it would prefer PC control. > > -Bob > This is fairly innocuous, as far as copyright is concerned. (Privacy, on the other hand...) These drives support a service offered by WD that lets you access data on them from outside your home network, the idea being that you can access your personal data from anywhere. The problem is, WD's servers are intimately aware of the kind of data that's being transferred; It's possible that the data actually passes through WD's servers on its way to you. The reason for this limitation is that WD doesn't want to get sued in case you decide to give the access codes to your MP3 collection to the whole world. Because of how their service operates, they fear they would be considered an accomplice in copyright infringement. Nothing prevents you from storing MP3s, XVid files and the like, you just can't access them through their remote access service. It's as though someone started a P2P network that disallowed access to certain filetypes: Nothing new. (There are Gnutella clients, for example, that filter out anything that might be porn.) -- :wq From adderd at kkmfg.com Tue Dec 11 10:52:14 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:52:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <475EB22E.1090502@kkmfg.com> > (There are Gnutella clients, for example, that > filter out anything that might be porn.) > > Wouldn't that be like making a flameproof log or an inedible apple pie? ;-) Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 12:26:43 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:26:43 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 10:48 AM, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 11, 2007 5:38 AM, Bob Kline wrote: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm > > > > I'm not sure exactly what's being > > done here here, but do know that > > the RIAA and the MPAA would > > dearly love to control people's > > computer's so that nothing can be > > stored on people's personal hard > > drives that those monopolies don't > > approve of. > > > > ** > > Western Digital has blocked users from sharing more than 30 different file > > types, if they are using the company's software, called Anywhere Access. > > ** > > > > People like Orin Hatch, R-UT, point man > > for the MPAA and the RIAA, contemptuously > > claimed that if people didn't heed the wishes > > of those monopoly groups their PCs would > > be rendered useless. Never mind that he didn't > > know what he was talking about - the intent > > is clear enough. > > > > The question is whether a company like WD > > will try to implement a hardware solution - > > something that looks for a code in a file? > > > > I doubt the industry will stop looking for a > > way to prevent people from storing things > > on their PCs that it doesn't like. Failing that, > > it will continue to keep suing everyone in > > sight, but I suspect it would prefer PC control. > > > > -Bob > > > > This is fairly innocuous, as far as copyright is concerned. (Privacy, > on the other hand...) > > These drives support a service offered by WD that lets you access data > on them from outside your home network, the idea being that you can > access your personal data from anywhere. The problem is, WD's > servers are intimately aware of the kind of data that's being > transferred; It's possible that the data actually passes through WD's > servers on its way to you. > > The reason for this limitation is that WD doesn't want to get sued in > case you decide to give the access codes to your MP3 collection to the > whole world. Because of how their service operates, they fear they > would be considered an accomplice in copyright infringement. > > Nothing prevents you from storing MP3s, XVid files and the like, you > just can't access them through their remote access service. It's as > though someone started a P2P network that disallowed access to certain > filetypes: Nothing new. (There are Gnutella clients, for example, that > filter out anything that might be porn.) Here's a list of all of the extensions they filter out: http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1495&p_created=1168641440&p_sid=bLTfVJLi&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NSw1JnBfcHJvZHM9MCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX2ZubCZwX3BhZ2U9MSZwX3NlYXJjaF90ZXh0PS5hdmk*&p_li=&p_topview=1 I find it amusing that they filter out tracker formats (I've got several gigs of the stuff, myself...), but they don't filter mkv. -- :wq From dond at standalelumber.com Tue Dec 11 12:34:44 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:34:44 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare Message-ID: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html I believe most of this. From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 12:48:25 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:48:25 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 12:34 PM, Don Wood wrote: > http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html > > I believe most of this. This line got me to lose interest: "While all this has been going on, broadband Internet connectivity has become almost as easily available as cell phone coverage." Grade A bull. Much of Muskegon county doesn't even have DSL, and there are no estimates for when it might be rolled out. When I lived in Muskegon, I used 56k dial-up. I know lots of people *in Grand Rapids* who can barely afford dial-up, much less broadband. Should my living arrangements change, I'll likely be dropping back to dial-up myself. All the buzz is about Verizon's 20Mb/s FIOS, or Comcast's demoing 150Mb/s connectivity. The controversy over how the FCC measures broadband coverage seems like a distant memory. Read/Write Web recently had an article talking about the coming Internet slow-down, saying "It will be like the bad old days of dial-up." It's amazing how many people fail to realize those "bad old days" are still here for a huge demographic. It brings to mind people's wonder at the beginning of the Atomic Age. Nothing really changed (Where are all the nuke plants now? Why are we having a debate over coal plants in Kansas?), people just thought everything was different, somehow. If you really wanted, I bet you could make a killing with webservices catering to low-bandwidth customers. Ditch flash, video and large images, and focus on text content. There's a huge peasant class on the Internet right now that nobody seems to remember. -- :wq From dond at standalelumber.com Tue Dec 11 13:17:55 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:17:55 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <1197397075.8836.10.camel@donw-laptop> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 12:48 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 11, 2007 12:34 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html > > > > I believe most of this. > > This line got me to lose interest: > > "While all this has been going on, broadband Internet connectivity has > become almost as easily available as cell phone coverage." > > Grade A bull. Much of Muskegon county doesn't even have DSL, and > there are no estimates for when it might be rolled out. When I lived > in Muskegon, I used 56k dial-up. I know lots of people *in Grand > Rapids* who can barely afford dial-up, much less broadband. Should my > living arrangements change, I'll likely be dropping back to dial-up > myself. > > All the buzz is about Verizon's 20Mb/s FIOS, or Comcast's demoing > 150Mb/s connectivity. The controversy over how the FCC measures > broadband coverage seems like a distant memory. Read/Write Web > recently had an article talking about the coming Internet slow-down, > saying "It will be like the bad old days of dial-up." > > It's amazing how many people fail to realize those "bad old days" are > still here for a huge demographic. It brings to mind people's wonder > at the beginning of the Atomic Age. Nothing really changed (Where are > all the nuke plants now? Why are we having a debate over coal plants > in Kansas?), people just thought everything was different, somehow. > > If you really wanted, I bet you could make a killing with webservices > catering to low-bandwidth customers. Ditch flash, video and large > images, and focus on text content. There's a huge peasant class on > the Internet right now that nobody seems to remember. > I agree with the author about the adoption of desktop Linux is going to probably begin with low-end pcs. Or as we discussed in the last lug meeting that companies that are being forced by the economy to look at their current practices and find lower cost substitutes. His generalization of Internet access is superfluous to the topic imho. From brousch at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 13:30:11 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:30:11 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197397075.8836.10.camel@donw-laptop> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197397075.8836.10.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 1:17 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > I agree with the author about the adoption of desktop Linux is going to > probably begin with low-end pcs. Or as we discussed in the last lug > meeting that companies that are being forced by the economy to look at > their current practices and find lower cost substitutes. His > generalization of Internet access is superfluous to the topic imho. > Speaking of low-end PCs, I have been an Ubuntu user since Warty, and I have noticed that it gets a little more bloated with each new version. Gutsy is very pretty, but I am swapping a lot more often than I used to on the same hardware (Thinkpad T20 with 512 and Thinkpad T30 with 512MB). I have tried a few of the ultra-stripped down distros (DSL and Puppy), but they tend to be ugly and lack a lot of functionality I have come to expect such as fully-functional Firefox/Flash/Java. I have also tried Xubuntu, but you lose a lot of the Gnome polish that makes Ubuntu so user-friendly. Are there any polished distros that target computers with 1-2GHz procs and 512MB of RAM? Computers - especially laptops - with those specs are very cheap these days and it would be nice to have something pretty and functional to install on them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/f6c2543a/attachment.htm From ndrier at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 13:43:13 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:43:13 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197397075.8836.10.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712111043rf92a6e4tc975075d86048ab2@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 11, 2007 1:30 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > Speaking of low-end PCs, I have been an Ubuntu user since Warty, and I > have noticed that it gets a little more bloated with each new version. Gutsy > is very pretty, but I am swapping a lot more often than I used to on the > same hardware (Thinkpad T20 with 512 and Thinkpad T30 with 512MB). I have > tried a few of the ultra-stripped down distros (DSL and Puppy), but they > tend to be ugly and lack a lot of functionality I have come to expect such > as fully-functional Firefox/Flash/Java. I have also tried Xubuntu, but you > lose a lot of the Gnome polish that makes Ubuntu so user-friendly. Are there > any polished distros that target computers with 1-2GHz procs and 512MB of > RAM? Computers - especially laptops - with those specs are very cheap these > days and it would be nice to have something pretty and functional to install > on them. > Debian may not be as polished as Ubuntu - but i'm always amazed how much faster a Debian install is with a full gnome-desktop vs the latest Ubuntu. Ease of use and amazing hardware support comes with a performance penalty. You could always try rolling your own kernel and get rid of all the gunk you don't need. SCSI, IRDA, wireless drivers, dial-up, and alot of other things are compiled in by default. You'll find a ton of HOWTO's on ubuntuforums.org. Nate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/5906fde0/attachment-0001.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 13:45:45 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:45:45 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197397075.8836.10.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 1:30 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > On Dec 11, 2007 1:17 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > I agree with the author about the adoption of desktop Linux is going to > > probably begin with low-end pcs. Or as we discussed in the last lug > > meeting that companies that are being forced by the economy to look at > > their current practices and find lower cost substitutes. His > > generalization of Internet access is superfluous to the topic imho. > > Speaking of low-end PCs, I have been an Ubuntu user since Warty, and I have > noticed that it gets a little more bloated with each new version. Gutsy is > very pretty, but I am swapping a lot more often than I used to on the same > hardware (Thinkpad T20 with 512 and Thinkpad T30 with 512MB). I have tried a > few of the ultra-stripped down distros (DSL and Puppy), but they tend to be > ugly and lack a lot of functionality I have come to expect such as > fully-functional Firefox/Flash/Java. I have also tried Xubuntu, but you lose > a lot of the Gnome polish that makes Ubuntu so user-friendly. Are there any > polished distros that target computers with 1-2GHz procs and 512MB of RAM? > Computers - especially laptops - with those specs are very cheap these days > and it would be nice to have something pretty and functional to install on > them. If you want Ubuntu software in a form that won't choke your machine, try XUbuntu. XUbuntu runs fine on my 500MHz laptop with 128MB of RAM. I use regular Ubuntu, but I swapped out the GNOME desktop for the wmii window manager. (Someone at the LUG pointed me to ratpoison, which I still need to look into.) -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 15:53:07 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:53:07 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 10:48 AM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 11, 2007 5:38 AM, Bob Kline wrote: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm > > > > > The reason for this limitation is that WD doesn't want to get sued in > case you decide to give the access codes to your MP3 collection to the > whole world. Because of how their service operates, they fear they > would be considered an accomplice in copyright infringement. > > That might be the problem. In a manner of speaking, as each company chickens out, or caves, to the MPAA and the RIAA it's one more way for the Internet to drown in a sea of litigation and copyright law, and to tighten up more. When Mike Eisner was at Disney he managed to almost single handedly get the copyright period extend to all but infinity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Call it 100 years in round numbers. And it's retro active on many things if companies and individuals apply for extensions. With those copyrights come lawsuits. Endless lawsuits. I believe it's the case that every e-mail is automatically copyrighted. This might have some corporate connection, to make sure newspapers don't publish an embarrassing e-mail pointing out how some CEO looted all the company's funds. Pretty soon every piece of code, every photo, every song, etc, etc, becomes a liability to have on your machine, as you're asked to prove where you got it, why you have it, etc. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/efc529b4/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 15:55:13 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:55:13 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NOT Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, my Wikipedia source was incorrected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law Top posted here for your convenience and ease of location... ;-) -Bob On Dec 11, 2007 3:53 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > > On Dec 11, 2007 10:48 AM, Michael Mol wrote: > > > On Dec 11, 2007 5:38 AM, Bob Kline wrote: > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7136069.stm > > > > > > > > > The reason for this limitation is that WD doesn't want to get sued in > > case you decide to give the access codes to your MP3 collection to the > > whole world. Because of how their service operates, they fear they > > would be considered an accomplice in copyright infringement. > > > > > > > That might be the problem. In a manner > of speaking, as each company chickens > out, or caves, to the MPAA and the RIAA > it's one more way for the Internet to drown > in a sea of litigation and copyright law, and > to tighten up more. > > When Mike Eisner was at Disney he > managed to almost single handedly get > the copyright period extend to all but infinity: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page > > Call it 100 years in round numbers. And it's > retro active on many things if companies and > individuals apply for extensions. > > With those copyrights come lawsuits. Endless > lawsuits. > > I believe it's the case that every e-mail is > automatically copyrighted. This might have > some corporate connection, to make sure > newspapers don't publish an embarrassing > e-mail pointing out how some CEO looted > all the company's funds. > > Pretty soon every piece of code, every photo, > every song, etc, etc, becomes a liability to > have on your machine, as you're asked to > prove where you got it, why you have it, etc. > > -Bob > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/f9128ed0/attachment-0001.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 16:21:41 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:21:41 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: Pushing on with a theme, remember those 200+ patents M$ says it has on software features that "it could use if it wanted to." At what point Linux becomes popular enough that M$ starts to play its lawyer card only it knows. Is just how far the JD would let a rampage like that get. -Bob On Dec 11, 2007 12:34 PM, Don Wood wrote: > http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html > > I believe most of this. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/f56a7181/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 16:30:56 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:30:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 12:48 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 11, 2007 12:34 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html > > > > I believe most of this. > > This line got me to lose interest: > > "While all this has been going on, broadband Internet connectivity has > become almost as easily available as cell phone coverage." > > Grade A bull. Much of Muskegon county doesn't even have DSL, and > there are no estimates for when it might be rolled out. When I lived > in Muskegon, I used 56k dial-up. I know lots of people *in Grand > Rapids* who can barely afford dial-up, much less broadband. Should my > living arrangements change, I'll likely be dropping back to dial-up > myself. > > All the buzz is about Verizon's 20Mb/s FIOS, or Comcast's demoing > 150Mb/s connectivity. The controversy over how the FCC measures > broadband coverage seems like a distant memory. Read/Write Web > recently had an article talking about the coming Internet slow-down, > saying "It will be like the bad old days of dial-up." > > It's amazing how many people fail to realize those "bad old days" are > still here for a huge demographic. It brings to mind people's wonder > at the beginning of the Atomic Age. Nothing really changed (Where are > all the nuke plants now? Why are we having a debate over coal plants > in Kansas?), people just thought everything was different, somehow. > > If you really wanted, I bet you could make a killing with webservices > catering to low-bandwidth customers. Ditch flash, video and large > images, and focus on text content. There's a huge peasant class on > the Internet right now that nobody seems to remember. > > Any number of these points would make for a fine discussion. e.g., you can't site a power plant or a transmission line in most areas today. "Not in my backyard," and the lawsuits that go with them. So MI and other states are down to single digit generating reserves. But wait until the lights start to flicker... Anyway, satellite Internet connectivity is available anywhere satellite TV is. Not cheap, at about $62 a month, it is now about 1.5Mbps down and 128 Kbps up. I suspect there are byte quotas for each day. But it is the case that bandwidth in general is getting scarce now. Most of the fiber laid in the heady dot-com 1990s was never activated. There's a lot of potential capacity out there in the form of fiber backbone, but rather less actual capacity. I suspect one can indeed watch for ever greater bandwidth congestion now for a while until someone figures there is a profit reason to expand the capacity. Data traffic is almost pure profit for outfits like Comcast, so they will let us suffer slowdowns until some other company gets on with it and then start advertising wonderful new capacity... :-( -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/64d0a1b1/attachment.htm From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 16:52:56 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:52:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 4:30 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > On Dec 11, 2007 12:48 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 11, 2007 12:34 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > > http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html > > > > > > I believe most of this. > > > > This line got me to lose interest: > > > > "While all this has been going on, broadband Internet connectivity has > > become almost as easily available as cell phone coverage." > > > > Grade A bull. Much of Muskegon county doesn't even have DSL, and > > there are no estimates for when it might be rolled out. When I lived > > in Muskegon, I used 56k dial-up. I know lots of people *in Grand > > Rapids* who can barely afford dial-up, much less broadband. Should my > > living arrangements change, I'll likely be dropping back to dial-up > > myself. > > > > All the buzz is about Verizon's 20Mb/s FIOS, or Comcast's demoing > > 150Mb/s connectivity. The controversy over how the FCC measures > > broadband coverage seems like a distant memory. Read/Write Web > > recently had an article talking about the coming Internet slow-down, > > saying "It will be like the bad old days of dial-up." > > > > It's amazing how many people fail to realize those "bad old days" are > > still here for a huge demographic. It brings to mind people's wonder > > at the beginning of the Atomic Age. Nothing really changed (Where are > > all the nuke plants now? Why are we having a debate over coal plants > > in Kansas?), people just thought everything was different, somehow. > > > > If you really wanted, I bet you could make a killing with webservices > > catering to low-bandwidth customers. Ditch flash, video and large > > images, and focus on text content. There's a huge peasant class on > > the Internet right now that nobody seems to remember. > > > > > > > Any number of these points would make > for a fine discussion. e.g., you can't site > a power plant or a transmission line in most > areas today. "Not in my backyard," and > the lawsuits that go with them. So MI and > other states are down to single digit generating > reserves. But wait until the lights start to flicker... > > Anyway, satellite Internet connectivity is > available anywhere satellite TV is. Not cheap, > at about $62 a month, it is now about 1.5Mbps > down and 128 Kbps up. I suspect there are > byte quotas for each day. > > But it is the case that bandwidth in general is > getting scarce now. Most of the fiber laid in > the heady dot-com 1990s was never activated. > There's a lot of potential capacity out there in > the form of fiber backbone, but rather less > actual capacity. > > I suspect one can indeed watch for ever > greater bandwidth congestion now for a > while until someone figures there is a profit > reason to expand the capacity. Data traffic > is almost pure profit for outfits like Comcast, > so they will let us suffer slowdowns until > some other company gets on with it and then > start advertising wonderful new capacity... :-( Thinking of which...Any word on when FiOS might hit Grand Rapids? -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 17:10:31 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:10:31 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] How to remove Linux Message-ID: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314458 Never let it be said that M$ doesn't aim to be helpful.... :-( -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/766e12e1/attachment.htm From greg at gregfolkert.net Tue Dec 11 17:39:21 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:39:21 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 16:30 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > On Dec 11, 2007 12:48 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 11, 2007 12:34 PM, Don Wood wrote: > > > http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS2414535067.html > > > > > > I believe most of this. > > > > This line got me to lose interest: > > > > "While all this has been going on, broadband Internet connectivity > > has become almost as easily available as cell phone coverage." > > > > Grade A bull. Much of Muskegon county doesn't even have DSL, and > > there are no estimates for when it might be rolled out. When I > > lived in Muskegon, I used 56k dial-up. I know lots of people *in > > Grand Rapids* who can barely afford dial-up, much less broadband. > > Should my living arrangements change, I'll likely be dropping back > > to dial-up myself. Then you my dear sir is NOT whom Microsoft is worried about. You can just continue to work with Windows all day everyday. I've forever been bitching about Dial-Up being forgotten about. In these high bandwidth fever days. > > All the buzz is about Verizon's 20Mb/s FIOS, or Comcast's demoing > > 150Mb/s connectivity. The controversy over how the FCC measures > > broadband coverage seems like a distant memory. Read/Write Web > > recently had an article talking about the coming Internet slow-down, > > saying "It will be like the bad old days of dial-up." 20Mbit/sec FIOS is the slow version, Friend of mine, his wife(err yeah) just retired from Verizon in Delaware. 45Mbit/s is his download speed, 15Mbit/sec is the upload speed. Plus he has all digital TV additionally through that fiber and his Video Conferencing Phone, Photo printer service and a few other things. He can Download 45Mbit/sec (from Giganews), Watch an HD DVD movie from the Video service, Be talking on the phone, plus his wife^H^H^H^H significant other (not married, but together for 30 years, no common-law in Delaware either) doing Video conferencing and sharing photos over the phone with her Mom and Dad, also watching a different HD DVD... plus still be able to browse the Internet all reasonably well, without artifacts. > > It's amazing how many people fail to realize those "bad old days" > > are still here for a huge demographic. It brings to mind people's > > wonder at the beginning of the Atomic Age. Nothing really changed > > (Where are all the nuke plants now? Why are we having a debate > > over coal plants in Kansas?), people just thought everything was > > different, somehow. Everyone is scared of changing from Carbon based energy sources. > > If you really wanted, I bet you could make a killing with > > webservices catering to low-bandwidth customers. Ditch flash, video > > and large images, and focus on text content. There's a huge peasant > > class on the Internet right now that nobody seems to remember. Okay, that is what RSS feeds are for, Feedburner got bought for quite a lot. And they really did cater to those that didn't have much bandwidth at all. They also had services for higher bandwidth customers. > Any number of these points would make for a fine discussion. e.g., > you can't site a power plant or a transmission line in most areas > today. "Not in my backyard," and the lawsuits that go with them. So > MI and other states are down to single digit generating reserves. But > wait until the lights start to flicker... That day is coming sooner than we might think, though still a few decades away. > Anyway, satellite Internet connectivity is available anywhere > satellite TV is. Not cheap, at about $62 a month, it is now about > 1.5Mbps down and 128 Kbps up. I suspect there are byte quotas for > each day. $62 a month is reasonable, considering a T1 circuit and Ineternet service is typically $500/month. > But it is the case that bandwidth in general is getting scarce now. > Most of the fiber laid in the heady dot-com 1990s was never activated. > There's a lot of potential capacity out there in the form of fiber > backbone, but rather less actual capacity. I have one question for you... do you know whom owns about 40% of all Dark Fiber in the US, out right... and has at least a 25% interest in MOST other Dark Fiber in the US and at least a 10% (or more) stake in much of the Dark Fiber around the world? I'll let you Google for the answer. > I suspect one can indeed watch for ever greater bandwidth congestion > now for a while until someone figures there is a profit reason to > expand the capacity. Data traffic is almost pure profit for outfits > like Comcast, so they will let us suffer slowdowns until some other > company gets on with it and then start advertising wonderful new > capacity... :-( This is and always has been the case. Seems like the Auto-Industry is suffering from its own "only do minimal upgrades in efficiency" to appear to care. Versus, actually changing the technology to extend mileage on "fuel". Do you honestly think computers and Internet services are going to be any different? ---------------------------------------- BTW, see how nicely and well formatted message with in-line replies and with proper snipage, makes the entire conversation much more readable? Come on people, it only takes a bit more time to make these e-mails much more readable, Of course, to reformat Bob Kline's took more time and effort, but the overall effect means this discussion is much more understandable. And, Bob, e-mail is not a Newspaper, its a completely different medium. If you haven't figured that out yet... I find your e-mails very tough to read, there are not multiple columns. If there were multiple columns, then I could understand your argument. To reformat the previous paragraph (please read in a courier font): And, Bob, e-mail is not a Newspaper, | tough to read, there are not its a completely different medium. | multiple columns. If there were If you haven't figured that out | multiple columns, then I could yet... I find your e-mails very | understand your argument. Cheers. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/e88dce2d/attachment.pgp From jtr at jrichards.org Tue Dec 11 18:12:14 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:12:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <20071211231214.GA32697@jrichards.org> On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 05:39:21PM -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 16:30 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > > On Dec 11, 2007 12:48 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > > > On Dec 11, 2007 12:34 PM, Don Wood wrote: [snip] > > But it is the case that bandwidth in general is getting scarce now. > > Most of the fiber laid in the heady dot-com 1990s was never activated. > > There's a lot of potential capacity out there in the form of fiber > > backbone, but rather less actual capacity. > > I have one question for you... do you know whom owns about 40% of all > Dark Fiber in the US, out right... and has at least a 25% interest in > MOST other Dark Fiber in the US and at least a 10% (or more) stake in > much of the Dark Fiber around the world? > > I'll let you Google for the answer. Heh. [snip] > BTW, see how nicely and well formatted message with in-line replies and > with proper snipage, makes the entire conversation much more readable? I am a member of another list that is *decidedly* non-technical (well, it is a theology list so it can be *quite* technical, but not a computer tech) and after reading yet another response with text in red stuffed into text in blue with the old "my responses are in red" bit, I posted a few paragraphs about the joys of spending more time figuring out who is responding to whom than on the content of the message, I was asked to provide an article explaining the rules of etiquette specifically for mailing lists. Other than the RFC, do any of you know of a simple explanation of mailing list etiquette (exploring such issues as inline quoting, snipping, etc.)? I could write one but why reinvent the toaster? (The wheel is soooo cliche...) [snip] Wow. Tacitus was *brilliant* (see my .sig). Anyone else longing for a good old government shut-down that lasts, say, a year or so? ;-) -- john-thomas ------ The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws. Tacitus From jtr at jrichards.org Tue Dec 11 18:15:55 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:15:55 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Monitor Sleeping, Sorry, My first Post...Ever In-Reply-To: <474A1D57.10904@ameritech.net> References: <7cd69fdf0711210559q1417b727s69a8d3c48ea1e767@mail.gmail.com> <20071121142412.GC21155@jrichards.org> <20071121203345.GA1133@jrichards.org> <47449C35.5010909@ameritech.net> <20071125222115.GA12755@jrichards.org> <4749F54F.8040808@ameritech.net> <20071125224840.GA13742@jrichards.org> <474A1D57.10904@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20071211231554.GB32697@jrichards.org> On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:11:51PM -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > Topher wrote: > >> I have not. Could *all three* power supplies on the three machines be > >> bad? > > > > I could see it happening, it all three experienced a similar power surge > > at some point in the past. If they all came from a similar environment > > they could experience lots of similar things in that regard, like sucking > > stuff from the air in the front and blowing it out the back by the power > > supply fan. > > And additionally they are all made from identical parts, and so could > all have a the same point of failure. A known good power supply is > definitely worth trying. I tried another known good power supply and get the same. I really wonder if the motherboard is bad. Does this even make sense? If so, anyone have a motherboard that will take a Pentium III 933MHz? Remember, it is for a good, local charity organization (read: "it needs to be free" - as in beer). -- john-thomas ------ The number of Unix installations has grown to 10, with more expected. The Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June, 1972 From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 11 18:30:03 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:30:03 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <20071211231214.GA32697@jrichards.org> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <20071211231214.GA32697@jrichards.org> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2007 6:12 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > I could write one but why reinvent the toaster? (The wheel is soooo cliche...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette Everyone else does... > Wow. Tacitus was *brilliant* (see my .sig). Anyone else longing for > a good old government shut-down that lasts, say, a year or so? ;-) Meh...I'd need to get some sort of effective weapon first. -- :wq From greg at gregfolkert.net Tue Dec 11 19:54:11 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:54:11 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Monitor Sleeping, Sorry, My first Post...Ever In-Reply-To: <20071211231554.GB32697@jrichards.org> References: <7cd69fdf0711210559q1417b727s69a8d3c48ea1e767@mail.gmail.com> <20071121142412.GC21155@jrichards.org> <20071121203345.GA1133@jrichards.org> <47449C35.5010909@ameritech.net> <20071125222115.GA12755@jrichards.org> <4749F54F.8040808@ameritech.net> <20071125224840.GA13742@jrichards.org> <474A1D57.10904@ameritech.net> <20071211231554.GB32697@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <1197420851.3751.78.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:15 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:11:51PM -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > > Topher wrote: > > >> I have not. Could *all three* power supplies on the three machines be > > >> bad? > > > > > > I could see it happening, it all three experienced a similar power surge > > > at some point in the past. If they all came from a similar environment > > > they could experience lots of similar things in that regard, like sucking > > > stuff from the air in the front and blowing it out the back by the power > > > supply fan. > > > > And additionally they are all made from identical parts, and so could > > all have a the same point of failure. A known good power supply is > > definitely worth trying. > > I tried another known good power supply and get the same. I really > wonder if the motherboard is bad. Does this even make sense? If so, > anyone have a motherboard that will take a Pentium III 933MHz? > Remember, it is for a good, local charity organization (read: "it needs > to be free" - as in beer). To be honest, I'd like to take a stab at these machines. And since they are IBM machines, there *ARE* quirks on them. Do you have ANY of the Restoration CDs they originally came with? And if not, get the exact model off the front of the machines and the monitors... (I'm probably asking for duplicate info there) but I haven't yet looked at my archives. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/81a13b39/attachment.pgp From darth_linux at ameritech.net Tue Dec 11 20:17:28 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:17:28 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] How to remove Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200712112017.29282.darth_linux@ameritech.net> On Tuesday 11 December 2007 17:10:31 pm Bob Kline wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314458 > > Never let it be said that M$ doesn't aim > to be helpful.... :-( > > -Bob this is the same company that promotes Vista by listing the problems with XP. eah From josh at hulst.ws Tue Dec 11 20:35:18 2007 From: josh at hulst.ws (Joshua Hulst) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:35:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] List Etiquette (Was: Linux desktop marketshare) In-Reply-To: <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <200712112035.31940.josh@hulst.ws> On Tuesday 11 December 2007 05:39:21 pm Greg Folkert wrote: > BTW, see how nicely and well formatted message with in-line replies and > with proper snipage, makes the entire conversation much more readable? > > Come on people, it only takes a bit more time to make these e-mails much > more readable, Of course, to reformat Bob Kline's took more time and > effort, but the overall effect means this discussion is much more > understandable. I completely agree. > And, Bob, e-mail is not a Newspaper, its a completely different medium. > If you haven't figured that out yet... I find your e-mails very tough to > read, there are not multiple columns. If there were multiple columns, > then I could understand your argument. The way I see it, the reader can format it how they want. If I want a narrow column, I can adjust it on my screen. I don't see why that should be imposed by the sender. Etiquette rules are not only for those of us reading now, but if the list is archived someday, descriptive titles combined with bottom posting, snipping and correct quoting are invaluable to those reading it. I think it'd be valuable to try and come up with some guidelines as the current mish-mash makes following conversations difficult and reduces the effectiveness. jwh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071211/9d4cc516/attachment-0001.pgp From topher at wcsg.org Wed Dec 12 08:18:51 2007 From: topher at wcsg.org (Topher) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:18:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: >> Anyway, satellite Internet connectivity is available anywhere satellite >> TV is. Not cheap, at about $62 a month, it is now about 1.5Mbps down >> and 128 Kbps up. I suspect there are byte quotas for each day. > > $62 a month is reasonable, considering a T1 circuit and Ineternet > service is typically $500/month. My sister just signed up for satellite service up north ( I don't know which service :( ) and she got the "cheap" version for $80/mo. They could upgrade to 1.5Mb, so I'm guessing cheap is 768k. Topher Manager of Internet Services Cornerstone University Radio ------ perl -e 'print join "", (map(chr,(shift =~ /\d{3}/g))), "\n"' \ 105032119105115104032105032107110101119032112101114108 From chase.bolen at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 11:18:36 2007 From: chase.bolen at gmail.com (Chase Bolen) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:18:36 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> I've had satellite for a couple months. It's supposed to be 1.5Mbps down, but I never see even close to that of course. The best I've gotten was around 130Kbps with bittorrent. I'm pretty sure we're being rate-limited now, though, because I haven't seen above 16K in a month or so. My connection drops at least once every couple days (more often if I run bittorrent), and I have to have the router release and renew the IP to regain it. Oh, and the lag is on the order of several seconds, so gaming would be atrocious. If Comcast ran their cable another half mile down to me, or the GR WiMax project ever gets off the ground, I'd switch in a heartbeat. (First post btw) On Dec 12, 2007 8:18 AM, Topher wrote: > >> Anyway, satellite Internet connectivity is available anywhere satellite > >> TV is. Not cheap, at about $62 a month, it is now about 1.5Mbps down > >> and 128 Kbps up. I suspect there are byte quotas for each day. > > > > $62 a month is reasonable, considering a T1 circuit and Ineternet > > service is typically $500/month. > > My sister just signed up for satellite service up north ( I don't know > which service :( ) and she got the "cheap" version for $80/mo. They could > upgrade to 1.5Mb, so I'm guessing cheap is 768k. > > Topher > Manager of Internet Services > Cornerstone University Radio > > ------ > perl -e 'print join "", (map(chr,(shift =~ /\d{3}/g))), "\n"' \ > 105032119105115104032105032107110101119032112101114108 > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/defanged-7823 Size: 2363 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/e9c7e111/attachment.bin From jtr at jrichards.org Wed Dec 12 12:32:55 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:32:55 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Monitor Sleeping, Sorry, My first Post...Ever In-Reply-To: <1197420851.3751.78.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <20071121142412.GC21155@jrichards.org> <20071121203345.GA1133@jrichards.org> <47449C35.5010909@ameritech.net> <20071125222115.GA12755@jrichards.org> <4749F54F.8040808@ameritech.net> <20071125224840.GA13742@jrichards.org> <474A1D57.10904@ameritech.net> <20071211231554.GB32697@jrichards.org> <1197420851.3751.78.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <20071212173254.GB15202@jrichards.org> On Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 07:54:11PM -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:15 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:11:51PM -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: [snip] > > > And additionally they are all made from identical parts, and so could > > > all have a the same point of failure. A known good power supply is > > > definitely worth trying. > > > > I tried another known good power supply and get the same. I really > > wonder if the motherboard is bad. Does this even make sense? If so, > > anyone have a motherboard that will take a Pentium III 933MHz? > > Remember, it is for a good, local charity organization (read: "it needs > > to be free" - as in beer). > > To be honest, I'd like to take a stab at these machines. > > And since they are IBM machines, there *ARE* quirks on them. Do you have > ANY of the Restoration CDs they originally came with? > > And if not, get the exact model off the front of the machines and the > monitors... > > (I'm probably asking for duplicate info there) but I haven't yet looked > at my archives. I do not have the original CDs. -- john-thomas ------ The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees, in every object, only the traits which favor that theory. Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 12:55:00 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:55:00 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Chase Bolen wrote: [snip broken text] > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* on this list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any text-mode Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years should work. -- :wq From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 13:09:18 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:09:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2007 12:55 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Chase Bolen wrote: > > [snip broken text] > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* on this > list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any text-mode > Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years should work. > > -- > Talk like that could set off another protracted flame war. The last pass at e-mail had it that only ASCII messages are permitted. God forbid you send a photograph or other image. Real men use only the command line, and the most primitive e-mail possible. And of course an ASCII browser. Doggone. I used a narrow message format again... Vee must haf rules. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/6cebbb26/attachment.htm From jtr at jrichards.org Wed Dec 12 13:13:54 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:13:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 12:55:00PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Chase Bolen wrote: > > [snip broken text] What was broken? I was able to read his message in mutt via ssh just fine. > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* on this > list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any text-mode > Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years should work. I am not sure what 'defanging' means in this context (though I will google), but I am quite curious what mail clients are most common on this list. Based on how text is quoted in some messages there are more Outlook users here than one would expect on a LUG list. BTW, are not all Linux mail clients text-based and GUI mail clients really just Windows apps ported? ;-) -- john-thomas ------ I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left. Margaret Thatcher From phillip at phtconsulting.com Wed Dec 12 13:21:06 2007 From: phillip at phtconsulting.com (Phillip Hebenstreit) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:21:06 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] SCO Unix site survey Message-ID: Hello everyone, I have a lead on a SCO Unix migration project. The office wants to move a database from SCO Unix to Mac, if possible. I need to do a site survey to determine what database they are using and if it has the ability to export the data and then determine if there is a comparable system available for their new Mac environment. The office doesn't know anything about the computer system they are currently using, they don't even know what version of SCO they are using, that is why I have to do a site survey. Can anyone suggest tips for doing the site survey? I want to get all the information I can the first time without leaving and then thinking of something that I should have checked while onsite. Thank you, Phill -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/a938ed03/attachment.htm From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Dec 12 13:24:18 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:24:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 13:09 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 12:55 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Chase Bolen > wrote: > > [snip broken text] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* > on this > list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any > text-mode > Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years > should work. > > -- > > > Talk like that could set off another > protracted flame war. The last pass > at e-mail had it that only ASCII messages > are permitted. God forbid you send a > photograph or other image. > > Real men use only the command line, > and the most primitive e-mail possible. > And of course an ASCII browser. > > Doggone. I used a narrow message format > again... > > Vee must haf rules. > > -Bob The best part is, YOU BOB with your broken way of doing things, send the e-mail text twice in a single message. Once in your broken "HTML" defanged as it is... and once as straight text. There by at least doubling the size of the message... all without your knowledge. I guess Clue-By-Four is not enough. I wonder how thick it must be to get through. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/9ae6aad3/attachment-0001.pgp From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 13:25:54 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:25:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2007 1:13 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 12:55:00PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Chase Bolen wrote: > > > > [snip broken text] > > What was broken? I was able to read his message in mutt via ssh just > fine. This is what part of Chases's email looks like in GMail: >> Anyway, satellite Internet connectivity is available anywhere satellite
>> TV is.  Not cheap, at about $62 a month, it is now about 1.5Mbps down
>> and 128 Kbps up.  I suspect there are byte quotas for each day.
>
> $62 a month is reasonable, considering a T1 circuit and Ineternet
> service is typically $500/month.

> > > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* on this > > list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any text-mode > > Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years should work. > > I am not sure what 'defanging' means in this context (though I will > google), but I am quite curious what mail clients are most common on > this list. Based on how text is quoted in some messages there are more > Outlook users here than one would expect on a LUG list. > > BTW, are not all Linux mail clients text-based and GUI mail clients > really just Windows apps ported? ;-) I wouldn't call KMail ported. I use GMail on the Firefox operating system. I've been known to occasionally switch to Evolution under Linux. At work, I use Thunderbird (Though my work email address isn't subscribed to this list.). -- :wq From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Dec 12 13:25:58 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:25:58 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <1197483958.3751.123.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 13:13 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 12:55:00PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Chase Bolen wrote: > > > > [snip broken text] > > What was broken? I was able to read his message in mutt via ssh just > fine. > > > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* on this > > list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any text-mode > > Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years should work. > > I am not sure what 'defanging' means in this context (though I will > google), but I am quite curious what mail clients are most common on > this list. Based on how text is quoted in some messages there are more > Outlook users here than one would expect on a LUG list. Look at the message source. You'll see "DEFANGED_div" and other such stuff. > BTW, are not all Linux mail clients text-based and GUI mail clients > really just Windows apps ported? ;-) Well, I use Evolution and it plays just find. I guess its the only one that can. And No Evolution wasn't ported from Windows. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/8f90b417/attachment.pgp From jtr at jrichards.org Wed Dec 12 13:28:20 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:28:20 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071212182819.GA17889@jrichards.org> On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 01:09:18PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 12:55 PM, Michael Mol wrote: [snip] > > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* on this > > list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any text-mode > > Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years should work. > > > > Talk like that could set off another > protracted flame war. The last pass > at e-mail had it that only ASCII messages > are permitted. God forbid you send a > photograph or other image. Sending attachments of any kind is generally frowned upon in mailing lists. Witness the recent discussion of those still on dial-up. Imagine sending a *small* one-megabyte attachment to a guy in the country getting 26K from his old, crusty copper lines. It is being considerate to send a link for him to download from should he choose to do so. > Real men use only the command line, > and the most primitive e-mail possible. > And of course an ASCII browser. Yes, real men use the command line. And? ;-) Command-line email is not primitive. I use mutt and can view graphical images (see above!) attached to email. I can browse links from within my text-mode email with a browser that enables me to view graphical images (should I so choose). I can do these things without Xorg running (but I do need a framebuffer). Oh, and it is not an ASCII-only mail client (or command-line browser) - it also does UTF-8. :-) The complaints about HTML mail and line-width, etc. are not focused on technological issues but rather issues of readability and long-established guidelines for mailing list communication. > Doggone. I used a narrow message format > again... > > Vee must haf rules. I like you, Bob. You are funny. ;-) -- john-thomas ------ Adults are obsolete children. Dr. Seuss, humorist, illustrator, and author (1904-1991) From stro at gnomedesktop.org Wed Dec 12 13:13:20 2007 From: stro at gnomedesktop.org (Stro) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:13:20 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Stop Mimedefang from scanning outgoing messages In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1197483200.2703.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> You can add this to the beginning of your filter: if ($RelayAddr eq "127.0.0.1") { md_syslog('warning', "smtp 127.0.0.1"); return ('ACCEPT_AND_NO_MORE_FILTERING', "ok"); } If you google for "ACCEPT_AND_NO_MORE_FILTERING" you should find other solutions. Of course this still invokes mimedefang, but put in the right place skips the expensive checks. -Luke On Mon, 2007-12-10 at 14:51 -0500, Olding, Jim wrote: > I am using MIMEdefang with Sendmail for spam filtering. Apparently by > default, it also scans outgoing messages, which introduces a significant > delay when trying to send out a weekly newsletter. Is there any way to > stop it from scanning outgoing messages completely? > > Thanks, > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From jtr at jrichards.org Wed Dec 12 13:37:26 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:37:26 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197483958.3751.123.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> <1197483958.3751.123.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <20071212183726.GA19327@jrichards.org> On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 01:25:58PM -0500, Greg Folkert wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 13:13 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2007 at 12:55:00PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > > On Dec 12, 2007 11:18 AM, Chase Bolen wrote: > > > > > > [snip broken text] > > > > What was broken? I was able to read his message in mutt via ssh just > > fine. > > > > > Can we please stop defanging HTML emails? Is there *anyone* on this > > > list whose client doesn't support multi-part emails? Any text-mode > > > Linux client maintained within the last five to ten years should work. > > > > I am not sure what 'defanging' means in this context (though I will > > google), but I am quite curious what mail clients are most common on > > this list. Based on how text is quoted in some messages there are more > > Outlook users here than one would expect on a LUG list. > > Look at the message source. You'll see "DEFANGED_div" and other such > stuff. Mutt shows that as an attachment (one of three or four in that email). I am not sure who the "we" is in "can *we* stop defanging HTML emails". Is that at the mail server level or is my (your/our) mail client doing this? > > BTW, are not all Linux mail clients text-based and GUI mail clients > > really just Windows apps ported? ;-) > > Well, I use Evolution and it plays just find. I guess its the only one > that can. And No Evolution wasn't ported from Windows. I know. Sorry. The joke failed, hence the wink. :-( -- john-thomas ------ It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare. Mark Twain, author and humorist (1835-1910) From josh at hulst.ws Wed Dec 12 13:39:31 2007 From: josh at hulst.ws (Joshua Hulst) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:39:31 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197483958.3751.123.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> <1197483958.3751.123.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <200712121339.35755.josh@hulst.ws> On Wednesday 12 December 2007 01:25:58 pm Greg Folkert wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 13:13 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > BTW, are not all Linux mail clients text-based and GUI mail clients > > really just Windows apps ported? ;-) > > Well, I use Evolution and it plays just find. I guess its the only one > that can. And No Evolution wasn't ported from Windows. Kmail for the win. I didn't see any problems with any of the emails in this conversation either, although the source does have the defanged tags. Which leads to another question. Why use HTML encoded email at all? What's the matter with plaintext, especially for a mailing list which so far has had no need for any of the features that html provides? jwh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 194 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/adc4b8e4/attachment.pgp From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 13:41:09 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:41:09 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: grlug wiki In-Reply-To: <47484D18.2070102@ddintegration.com> References: <47484D18.2070102@ddintegration.com> Message-ID: I suppose I probably should have forwarded this earlier. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: David Pembrook Date: Nov 24, 2007 11:11 AM Subject: grlug wiki To: mikemol at gmail.com Mike, I just happened by the grlug archives and saw a thread on the wiki. I kinda dropped off the mailing list some time back because I got tired of some of the threads. The wiki is on one of my servers and we could certainly update the code on that. Its was also not supposed to be world writable and should require an account. I don't know who asked you why you needed an account back then, it was supposed to be open to anyone on the lug list that wanted to contribute. I'm game for updating the wiki as I can't imagine life without one personally. I don't know who'd running the show as far as the lug is concerned. I'd want to move the lug to a newer server and get the latest software in. Godwin still control the DNS? I see few things needing the be done, move the DNS to the other server upgrade to the latest keeping the old data. Find a nice theme and customize the layout a bit. I've tinkered a bit with it and we should be able to make it look more like "ours" that "out of the box" Let me know if anyone is interested. I'll get ftp access to the powers that be and we'll update things. -- David Pembrook DDIntegration LLC http://www.ddintegration.com Phone: 616-301-0435 - -- :wq From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 13:54:24 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:54:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <200712121339.35755.josh@hulst.ws> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <20071212181354.GA17125@jrichards.org> <1197483958.3751.123.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <200712121339.35755.josh@hulst.ws> Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM, Joshua Hulst wrote: > On Wednesday 12 December 2007 01:25:58 pm Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 13:13 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > > BTW, are not all Linux mail clients text-based and GUI mail clients > > > really just Windows apps ported? ;-) > > > > Well, I use Evolution and it plays just find. I guess its the only one > > that can. And No Evolution wasn't ported from Windows. > > > Kmail for the win. I didn't see any problems with any of the emails in this > conversation either, although the source does have the defanged tags. Which > leads to another question. Why use HTML encoded email at all? What's the > matter with plaintext, especially for a mailing list which so far has had no > need for any of the features that html provides? On second thought, it might be GMail's problem. The defanger changes the MIME type: Content-Type: application/DEFANGED-7823; charset="ISO-8859-1"; name="unnamed.txt" GMail shouldn't recognize that type, and shouldn't display it over the text/plain part earlier in the message. There's nothing wrong with plain text, except that some folks who use email don't know the difference, and their clients default to HTML. It shouldn't be the email server's job to be aware of HTML, IMO. -- :wq From cdubois at n-vint.com Wed Dec 12 15:22:24 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:22:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] General - Merriam-Webster's Word of the Year 2007 - w00t Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46DA7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Merriam-Webster's Word of the Year 2007 - w00t http://www.m-w.com/info/07words.htm Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas John Watson - IBM From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 15:24:16 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:24:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] General - Merriam-Webster's Word of the Year 2007 - w00t In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46DA7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46DA7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2007 3:22 PM, Casey DuBois wrote: > > Merriam-Webster's Word of the Year 2007 - w00t > http://www.m-w.com/info/07words.htm w00t! /Sorry... -- :wq From cdubois at n-vint.com Wed Dec 12 16:58:35 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:58:35 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Help Wanted - Web Page Development and Maintence Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46DF3@NVMBX01.nvint.local> I'm looking for someone that has time and interest in Web Page Development and maintence on an existing site. Please contact me on or off list. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas John Watson - IBM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/83fcfc38/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 17:11:30 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:11:30 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: I suspect if you're not on ulcer medication already you will be one day. Why look at that. A top post and narrow lines... Bet I could get the acid really dripping by making part of the message red and part green. Xmas and all that. And yes, Xmas has pagan overtones for some. Really folks, this isn't that serious. Nor ever in my life have I seen people so worried about the fluff aspects of e-mail. Someone on some ISO committees? -Bob > The best part is, YOU BOB with your broken way of doing things, send the > e-mail text twice in a single message. Once in your broken "HTML" > defanged as it is... and once as straight text. There by at least > doubling the size of the message... all without your knowledge. > > I guess Clue-By-Four is not enough. I wonder how thick it must be to get > through. > -- > greg at gregfolkert.net > PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 > Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C > Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 > Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/5e05c38e/attachment-0001.htm From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Dec 12 17:34:26 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:34:26 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <1197498866.3751.174.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 17:11 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > I suspect if you're not on ulcer > medication already you will be > one day. > > Why look at that. A top post and > narrow lines... > > Bet I could get the acid really > dripping by making part of the > message red and part green. > > Xmas and all that. And yes, Xmas > has pagan overtones for some. > > Really folks, this > isn't that > serious. Nor ever in > my life have I seen > people so worried about > the fluff aspects of e-mail. > > Someone on some ISO > committees? You STILL do not get it. You are sending your text twice. Once in your broken HTML. Another in straight text. And people wonder why things are slow. They have no clue that they are the problem. Just like web-designers I know, claiming a website hosted by us is slow when in fact it is 1+MB in size with images and media and they are bitching because it takes 15+ seconds to begin to render after loading the 200K external CSS files. Are you beginning to understand my complaint? I hope you do as you are really beginning to annoy me. Sending e-mail in an acceptable format so that the reader is not forced to read it a certain way, is the most acceptable way to communicate. If you cannot comprehend this you are indeed the clueless person I used to just suspect you are. Please Bob, this is not a Newspaper. I'm not worried about it, just that I hate having to go back thirty five messages just to understand your answer for the question asked in the second reply and you are just now answering 17 layers later and actually answer it at the top of a HUGE non-snipped non-conversational flowed e-mail. You claim to be interested in how people read, prove it. Get over your pretentious self, forcing ME to have to care enough to go back and answer your questions. If you want help, play nice and follow common courtesy. It is far easier to read e-mail conversations with in-line replies than this crap you think is acceptable. And For the record: I couldn't care less about the HTML problems, my reader deals with it just fine. Though your mails ARE TWICE as large as they should be. AND for reading comprehension, please just do in-line replies and "judicious" snippage of things not related. I am asking you because I am asking, nothing more. If you choose to ignore that request, I'll choose to not answer any of your questions, even if I were the only person that could help. And again, archives will thank you much later. Also people looking through our archives will be able to spot the IDIOT that can't chat in a normal fashion and have to force people to read horribly formatted messages. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071212/8ccd963c/attachment.pgp From geektoyz at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 18:24:31 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:24:31 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Fwd: grlug wiki In-Reply-To: References: <47484D18.2070102@ddintegration.com> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712121524m4bf6e113gef8b70831f3b9dc9@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 12, 2007 1:41 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > I suppose I probably should have forwarded this earlier. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: David Pembrook > Date: Nov 24, 2007 11:11 AM > Subject: grlug wiki > To: mikemol at gmail.com > > > > Mike, > (snip) > > I'm game for updating the wiki as I can't imagine life without one > personally. I don't know who'd running the show as far as the lug is > concerned. I'd want to move the lug to a newer server and get the > latest software in. Godwin still control the DNS? > > I see few things needing the be done, > > (snip) > -- > David Pembrook > DDIntegration LLC > http://www.ddintegration.com > Phone: 616-301-0435 > > > Hey David, Nice to see you chiming in... Yes, I can edit the DNS entry. Just let me know the details (ip, when, etc.) and I'll take care of it. thanks, G- -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From darth_linux at ameritech.net Wed Dec 12 20:39:18 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:39:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] in need of Linux expert Message-ID: <200712122039.19680.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Hello all, I have an opportunity to do some technical writing and need a subject expert to aid me. If anyone is interested, please contact me right away - the project needs to get started right away. thanks, eric From mikemol at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 22:50:41 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:50:41 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] in need of Linux expert In-Reply-To: <200712122039.19680.darth_linux@ameritech.net> References: <200712122039.19680.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: On Dec 12, 2007 8:39 PM, eah wrote: > Hello all, > > I have an opportunity to do some technical writing and need a subject expert > to aid me. If anyone is interested, please contact me right away - the > project needs to get started right away. > > thanks, > > eric Can you be more specific? What subsystem do you need assistance with? -- :wq From david at pembrook.net Wed Dec 12 17:45:12 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:45:12 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <1197498866.3751.174.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1197498866.3751.174.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> Greg, I've been away from the list a while now for the simple reason of people like yourself griping about the way people post. The nice thing about good computer software is their flexibility. I've chosen this option instead of complaining about your handling of things that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I've made a filter to just delete anything coming from you. I'd have rather this not been my first post back on the list.. but it has to be said GET A LIFE! oppps... I wasn't going to complain. anyhow... for the rest of you... this is the easiest way of dealing with people like Greg. Nice little filters to remove hate mail from your inbox. Thanks Dave Greg Folkert wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 17:11 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > >> I suspect if you're not on ulcer >> medication already you will be >> one day. >> >> Why look at that. A top post and >> narrow lines... >> >> Bet I could get the acid really >> dripping by making part of the >> message red and part green. >> >> Xmas and all that. And yes, Xmas >> has pagan overtones for some. >> >> Really folks, this >> isn't that >> serious. Nor ever in >> my life have I seen >> people so worried about >> the fluff aspects of e-mail. >> >> Someone on some ISO >> committees? >> > > You > STILL > do > not > get > it. > > You > are > sending > your > text > twice. > > Once > in > your > broken > HTML. > Another > in > straight > text. > > And > people > wonder > why > things > are > slow. > > They > have > no > clue > that > they > are > the > problem. > > Just > like > web-designers > I > know, > claiming > a > website > hosted > by > us > is > slow > when > in > fact > it > is > 1+MB > in > size > with > images > and > media > and > they > are > bitching > because > it > takes > 15+ > seconds > to > begin > to > render > after > loading > the > 200K > external > CSS > files. > > Are > you > beginning > to > understand > my > complaint? > > I > hope > you > do > as > you > are > really > beginning > to > annoy > me. > > Sending > e-mail > in > an > acceptable > format > so > that > the > reader > is > not > forced > to > read > it > a > certain > way, > is > the > most > acceptable > way > to > communicate. > > If > you > cannot > comprehend > this > you > are > indeed > the > clueless > person > I > used > to > just > suspect > you > are. > > > Please Bob, this is not a Newspaper. > > I'm not worried about it, just that I hate having to go back thirty five > messages just to understand your answer for the question asked in the > second reply and you are just now answering 17 layers later and actually > answer it at the top of a HUGE non-snipped non-conversational flowed > e-mail. > > You claim to be interested in how people read, prove it. Get over your > pretentious self, forcing ME to have to care enough to go back and > answer your questions. If you want help, play nice and follow common > courtesy. > > It is far easier to read e-mail conversations with in-line replies than > this crap you think is acceptable. > > And For the record: I couldn't care less about the HTML problems, my > reader deals with it just fine. Though your mails ARE TWICE as large as > they should be. AND for reading comprehension, please just do in-line > replies and "judicious" snippage of things not related. I am asking you > because I am asking, nothing more. If you choose to ignore that request, > I'll choose to not answer any of your questions, even if I were the only > person that could help. > > And again, archives will thank you much later. Also people looking > through our archives will be able to spot the IDIOT that can't chat in a > normal fashion and have to force people to read horribly formatted > messages. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From matt at michielsen.us Thu Dec 13 07:27:15 2007 From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:27:15 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1197498866.3751.174.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> Message-ID: I vote that we branch off a GRLUG-Netiquette list just for discussions like this one. -mm On Dec 12, 2007 5:45 PM, David Pembrook wrote: > Greg, > I've been away from the list a while now for the simple reason of people > like yourself griping about the way people post. The nice thing about > good computer software is their flexibility. I've chosen this option > instead of complaining about your handling of things that don't really > matter in the grand scheme of things. I've made a filter to just delete > anything coming from you. > > I'd have rather this not been my first post back on the list.. but it > has to be said > > GET A LIFE! > > > oppps... I wasn't going to complain. > > anyhow... for the rest of you... this is the easiest way of dealing with > people like Greg. Nice little filters to remove hate mail from your inbox. > > Thanks > Dave > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 17:11 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > > > >> I suspect if you're not on ulcer > >> medication already you will be > >> one day. > >> > >> Why look at that. A top post and > >> narrow lines... > >> > >> Bet I could get the acid really > >> dripping by making part of the > >> message red and part green. > >> > >> Xmas and all that. And yes, Xmas > >> has pagan overtones for some. > >> > >> Really folks, this > >> isn't that > >> serious. Nor ever in > >> my life have I seen > >> people so worried about > >> the fluff aspects of e-mail. > >> > >> Someone on some ISO > >> committees? > >> > > > > You > > STILL > > do > > not > > get > > it. > > > > You > > are > > sending > > your > > text > > twice. > > > > Once > > in > > your > > broken > > HTML. > > Another > > in > > straight > > text. > > > > And > > people > > wonder > > why > > things > > are > > slow. > > > > They > > have > > no > > clue > > that > > they > > are > > the > > problem. > > > > Just > > like > > web-designers > > I > > know, > > claiming > > a > > website > > hosted > > by > > us > > is > > slow > > when > > in > > fact > > it > > is > > 1+MB > > in > > size > > with > > images > > and > > media > > and > > they > > are > > bitching > > because > > it > > takes > > 15+ > > seconds > > to > > begin > > to > > render > > after > > loading > > the > > 200K > > external > > CSS > > files. > > > > Are > > you > > beginning > > to > > understand > > my > > complaint? > > > > I > > hope > > you > > do > > as > > you > > are > > really > > beginning > > to > > annoy > > me. > > > > Sending > > e-mail > > in > > an > > acceptable > > format > > so > > that > > the > > reader > > is > > not > > forced > > to > > read > > it > > a > > certain > > way, > > is > > the > > most > > acceptable > > way > > to > > communicate. > > > > If > > you > > cannot > > comprehend > > this > > you > > are > > indeed > > the > > clueless > > person > > I > > used > > to > > just > > suspect > > you > > are. > > > > > > Please Bob, this is not a Newspaper. > > > > I'm not worried about it, just that I hate having to go back thirty five > > messages just to understand your answer for the question asked in the > > second reply and you are just now answering 17 layers later and actually > > answer it at the top of a HUGE non-snipped non-conversational flowed > > e-mail. > > > > You claim to be interested in how people read, prove it. Get over your > > pretentious self, forcing ME to have to care enough to go back and > > answer your questions. If you want help, play nice and follow common > > courtesy. > > > > It is far easier to read e-mail conversations with in-line replies than > > this crap you think is acceptable. > > > > And For the record: I couldn't care less about the HTML problems, my > > reader deals with it just fine. Though your mails ARE TWICE as large as > > they should be. AND for reading comprehension, please just do in-line > > replies and "judicious" snippage of things not related. I am asking you > > because I am asking, nothing more. If you choose to ignore that request, > > I'll choose to not answer any of your questions, even if I were the only > > person that could help. > > > > And again, archives will thank you much later. Also people looking > > through our archives will be able to spot the IDIOT that can't chat in a > > normal fashion and have to force people to read horribly formatted > > messages. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071213/79cdd0cd/attachment.htm From darth_linux at ameritech.net Thu Dec 13 07:31:30 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:31:30 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] in need of Linux expert In-Reply-To: References: <200712122039.19680.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <200712130731.30642.darth_linux@ameritech.net> On Wednesday 12 December 2007 22:50:41 pm Michael Mol wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 8:39 PM, eah wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I have an opportunity to do some technical writing and need a subject > > expert to aid me. If anyone is interested, please contact me right away - > > the project needs to get started right away. > > > > thanks, > > > > eric > > Can you be more specific? What subsystem do you need assistance with? The topic is desktop Linux. Eric From darth_linux at ameritech.net Thu Dec 13 07:36:35 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:36:35 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <200712130736.35643.darth_linux@ameritech.net> On Thursday 13 December 2007 07:27:15 am Matt Michielsen wrote: > I vote that we branch off a GRLUG-Netiquette list just for discussions like > this one. > > -mm > > On Dec 12, 2007 5:45 PM, David Pembrook wrote: > > Greg, > > I've been away from the list a while now for the simple reason of people > > like yourself griping about the way people post. The nice thing about > > good computer software is their flexibility. I've chosen this option > > instead of complaining about your handling of things that don't really > > matter in the grand scheme of things. I've made a filter to just delete > > anything coming from you. > > > > I'd have rather this not been my first post back on the list.. but it > > has to be said > > > > GET A LIFE! > > > > > > oppps... I wasn't going to complain. > > > > anyhow... for the rest of you... this is the easiest way of dealing with > > people like Greg. Nice little filters to remove hate mail from your > > inbox. > > > > Thanks > > Dave > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 17:11 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > > >> I suspect if you're not on ulcer > > >> medication already you will be > > >> one day. > > >> > > >> Why look at that. A top post and > > >> narrow lines... > > >> > > >> Bet I could get the acid really > > >> dripping by making part of the > > >> message red and part green. > > >> > > >> Xmas and all that. And yes, Xmas > > >> has pagan overtones for some. > > >> > > >> Really folks, this > > >> isn't that > > >> serious. Nor ever in > > >> my life have I seen > > >> people so worried about > > >> the fluff aspects of e-mail. > > >> > > >> Someone on some ISO > > >> committees? > > > > > > You > > > STILL > > > do > > > not > > > get > > > it. > > > > > > You > > > are > > > sending > > > your > > > text > > > twice. > > > > > > Once > > > in > > > your > > > broken > > > HTML. > > > Another > > > in > > > straight > > > text. > > > > > > And > > > people > > > wonder > > > why > > > things > > > are > > > slow. > > > > > > They > > > have > > > no > > > clue > > > that > > > they > > > are > > > the > > > problem. > > > > > > Just > > > like > > > web-designers > > > I > > > know, > > > claiming > > > a > > > website > > > hosted > > > by > > > us > > > is > > > slow > > > when > > > in > > > fact > > > it > > > is > > > 1+MB > > > in > > > size > > > with > > > images > > > and > > > media > > > and > > > they > > > are > > > bitching > > > because > > > it > > > takes > > > 15+ > > > seconds > > > to > > > begin > > > to > > > render > > > after > > > loading > > > the > > > 200K > > > external > > > CSS > > > files. > > > > > > Are > > > you > > > beginning > > > to > > > understand > > > my > > > complaint? > > > > > > I > > > hope > > > you > > > do > > > as > > > you > > > are > > > really > > > beginning > > > to > > > annoy > > > me. > > > > > > Sending > > > e-mail > > > in > > > an > > > acceptable > > > format > > > so > > > that > > > the > > > reader > > > is > > > not > > > forced > > > to > > > read > > > it > > > a > > > certain > > > way, > > > is > > > the > > > most > > > acceptable > > > way > > > to > > > communicate. > > > > > > If > > > you > > > cannot > > > comprehend > > > this > > > you > > > are > > > indeed > > > the > > > clueless > > > person > > > I > > > used > > > to > > > just > > > suspect > > > you > > > are. > > > > > > > > > Please Bob, this is not a Newspaper. > > > > > > I'm not worried about it, just that I hate having to go back thirty > > > five messages just to understand your answer for the question asked in > > > the second reply and you are just now answering 17 layers later and > > > actually answer it at the top of a HUGE non-snipped non-conversational > > > flowed e-mail. > > > > > > You claim to be interested in how people read, prove it. Get over your > > > pretentious self, forcing ME to have to care enough to go back and > > > answer your questions. If you want help, play nice and follow common > > > courtesy. > > > > > > It is far easier to read e-mail conversations with in-line replies than > > > this crap you think is acceptable. > > > > > > And For the record: I couldn't care less about the HTML problems, my > > > reader deals with it just fine. Though your mails ARE TWICE as large as > > > they should be. AND for reading comprehension, please just do in-line > > > replies and "judicious" snippage of things not related. I am asking you > > > because I am asking, nothing more. If you choose to ignore that > > > request, I'll choose to not answer any of your questions, even if I > > > were the only person that could help. > > > > > > And again, archives will thank you much later. Also people looking > > > through our archives will be able to spot the IDIOT that can't chat in > > > a normal fashion and have to force people to read horribly formatted > > > messages. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug I for one vote against a separate list. Why do we tech professionals need to discuss this? If you cannot get along on the list, maybe we should remove you from the list. Complaints to people's posting style should be dealt with off-list. Posts to the list should be on-topic. and just to end this discussion forever: Hitler. eah From david at pembrook.net Thu Dec 13 07:44:09 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:44:09 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1197498866.3751.174.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <47612919.9030107@pembrook.net> excellent idea Dave Matt Michielsen wrote: > I vote that we branch off a GRLUG-Netiquette list just for discussions > like this one. > > -mm > > On Dec 12, 2007 5:45 PM, David Pembrook > wrote: > > Greg, > I've been away from the list a while now for the simple reason of > people > like yourself griping about the way people post. The nice thing about > good computer software is their flexibility. I've chosen this option > instead of complaining about your handling of things that don't > really > matter in the grand scheme of things. I've made a filter to just > delete > anything coming from you. > > I'd have rather this not been my first post back on the list.. but it > has to be said > > GET A LIFE! > > > oppps... I wasn't going to complain. > > anyhow... for the rest of you... this is the easiest way of > dealing with > people like Greg. Nice little filters to remove hate mail from > your inbox. > > Thanks > Dave > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 17:11 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > > > >> I suspect if you're not on ulcer > >> medication already you will be > >> one day. > >> > >> Why look at that. A top post and > >> narrow lines... > >> > >> Bet I could get the acid really > >> dripping by making part of the > >> message red and part green. > >> > >> Xmas and all that. And yes, Xmas > >> has pagan overtones for some. > >> > >> Really folks, this > >> isn't that > >> serious. Nor ever in > >> my life have I seen > >> people so worried about > >> the fluff aspects of e-mail. > >> > >> Someone on some ISO > >> committees? > >> > > > > You > > STILL > > do > > not > > get > > it. > > > > You > > are > > sending > > your > > text > > twice. > > > > Once > > in > > your > > broken > > HTML. > > Another > > in > > straight > > text. > > > > And > > people > > wonder > > why > > things > > are > > slow. > > > > They > > have > > no > > clue > > that > > they > > are > > the > > problem. > > > > Just > > like > > web-designers > > I > > know, > > claiming > > a > > website > > hosted > > by > > us > > is > > slow > > when > > in > > fact > > it > > is > > 1+MB > > in > > size > > with > > images > > and > > media > > and > > they > > are > > bitching > > because > > it > > takes > > 15+ > > seconds > > to > > begin > > to > > render > > after > > loading > > the > > 200K > > external > > CSS > > files. > > > > Are > > you > > beginning > > to > > understand > > my > > complaint? > > > > I > > hope > > you > > do > > as > > you > > are > > really > > beginning > > to > > annoy > > me. > > > > Sending > > e-mail > > in > > an > > acceptable > > format > > so > > that > > the > > reader > > is > > not > > forced > > to > > read > > it > > a > > certain > > way, > > is > > the > > most > > acceptable > > way > > to > > communicate. > > > > If > > you > > cannot > > comprehend > > this > > you > > are > > indeed > > the > > clueless > > person > > I > > used > > to > > just > > suspect > > you > > are. > > > > > > Please Bob, this is not a Newspaper. > > > > I'm not worried about it, just that I hate having to go back > thirty five > > messages just to understand your answer for the question asked > in the > > second reply and you are just now answering 17 layers later and > actually > > answer it at the top of a HUGE non-snipped non-conversational flowed > > e-mail. > > > > You claim to be interested in how people read, prove it. Get > over your > > pretentious self, forcing ME to have to care enough to go back and > > answer your questions. If you want help, play nice and follow common > > courtesy. > > > > It is far easier to read e-mail conversations with in-line > replies than > > this crap you think is acceptable. > > > > And For the record: I couldn't care less about the HTML problems, my > > reader deals with it just fine. Though your mails ARE TWICE as > large as > > they should be. AND for reading comprehension, please just do > in-line > > replies and "judicious" snippage of things not related. I am > asking you > > because I am asking, nothing more. If you choose to ignore that > request, > > I'll choose to not answer any of your questions, even if I were > the only > > person that could help. > > > > And again, archives will thank you much later. Also people looking > > through our archives will be able to spot the IDIOT that can't > chat in a > > normal fashion and have to force people to read horribly formatted > > messages. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From adderd at kkmfg.com Thu Dec 13 08:01:27 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:01:27 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <1197412761.3751.55.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4039ac990712120818x2d18be8bq7cc3e494bf84d774@mail.gmail.com> <1197483858.3751.120.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <1197498866.3751.174.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> No, Greg is right about one thing. I've all but given up on Bob because of his *wonderful* use of extremely small columns. It's really not easy to read at all. Just makes me want to ignore all of his posts to the list. David Pembrook wrote: > Greg, > I've been away from the list a while now for the simple reason of people > like yourself griping about the way people post. The nice thing about > good computer software is their flexibility. I've chosen this option > instead of complaining about your handling of things that don't really > matter in the grand scheme of things. I've made a filter to just delete > anything coming from you. > > I'd have rather this not been my first post back on the list.. but it > has to be said > > GET A LIFE! > > > oppps... I wasn't going to complain. > > anyhow... for the rest of you... this is the easiest way of dealing with > people like Greg. Nice little filters to remove hate mail from your inbox. > > Thanks > Dave > > From darth_linux at ameritech.net Thu Dec 13 08:13:04 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 08:13:04 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> On Thursday 13 December 2007 08:01:27 am Collin Kidder wrote: > No, Greg is right about one thing. I've all but given up on Bob because > of his *wonderful* use of extremely small columns. It's really not easy > to read at all. Just makes me want to ignore all of his posts to the list. > > David Pembrook wrote: > > Greg, > > I've been away from the list a while now for the simple reason of people > > like yourself griping about the way people post. The nice thing about > > good computer software is their flexibility. I've chosen this option > > instead of complaining about your handling of things that don't really > > matter in the grand scheme of things. I've made a filter to just delete > > anything coming from you. > > > > I'd have rather this not been my first post back on the list.. but it > > has to be said > > > > GET A LIFE! > > > > > > oppps... I wasn't going to complain. > > > > anyhow... for the rest of you... this is the easiest way of dealing with > > people like Greg. Nice little filters to remove hate mail from your > > inbox. > > > > Thanks > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug ignoring posts means the list is useless. if it's just a formating issue, contact them off list. if it's a matter of professionalism on the mailing list, contact an admin so violating parties can be removed. eah From adderd at kkmfg.com Thu Dec 13 09:11:04 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:11:04 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> > > ignoring posts means the list is useless. if it's just a formating issue, > contact them off list. if it's a matter of professionalism on the mailing > list, contact an admin so violating parties can be removed. > > eah > _______________________________________________ > I agree that ignoring posts really devalues the list. That's the whole problem with Bob's posts: He's been told multiple times that it drives people nuts and he still does it. Obviously having his posts valued does not mean a lot to him. I don't care about top or bottom posting. Personally I like top posting better but some people are really picky and like bottom posting. That's fine, to each his own. Where the post shows up relative to the quoted material is nowhere even close to as annoying as reading a post which is formatted really small so that it's really annoying to read the stupid thing. Now, I haven't ignored any of Bob's posts or anyone elses posts on this list but reasonable formatting of one's posts is really not that much to ask. My only request is: please everyone, type your posts without any more forced line breaks than necessary and I'll size my window the way I want. Thank you! From david at pembrook.net Thu Dec 13 09:30:39 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:30:39 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Rants and email formatting In-Reply-To: <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <4761420F.3010402@pembrook.net> This whole discussion should be one on one from a list admin to the offenders if there are any. The whole list's attention is drawn to rants. why are we wasting the time and energy? I know other people that have left the list simply because of the wasted time sorting out these discussions. The powers that be need to step in and settle things off list where needed, on list when appropriate. Otherwise this is just one big flame, gripe and rant session and we loose people. Those that really really care, could devote their attention to a modification to the list software that reformats the emails. Simple rules; single line feeds are removed, doubles indicate a new paragraph. HTML messages could be removed, and other annoyances removed. Hey, we could even turn this into something constructive. Dave Collin Kidder wrote: >> ignoring posts means the list is useless. if it's just a formating issue, >> contact them off list. if it's a matter of professionalism on the mailing >> list, contact an admin so violating parties can be removed. >> >> eah >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > I agree that ignoring posts really devalues the list. That's the whole > problem with Bob's posts: He's been told multiple times that it drives > people nuts and he still does it. Obviously having his posts valued does > not mean a lot to him. I don't care about top or bottom posting. > Personally I like top posting better but some people are really picky > and like bottom posting. That's fine, to each his own. Where the post > shows up relative to the quoted material is nowhere even close to as > annoying as > > reading a post > which is formatted > really small > so that it's really > annoying to read > the stupid thing. > > > Now, I haven't ignored any of Bob's posts or anyone elses posts on this > list but reasonable formatting of one's posts is really not that much to > ask. My only request is: please everyone, type your posts without any > more forced line breaks than necessary and I'll size my window the way I > want. Thank you! > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From greg at gregfolkert.net Thu Dec 13 09:39:43 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:39:43 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] I guess this is the last. Message-ID: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> I've tried to be nice. I've tried to ask nicely. You said buh-bye if you don't shut up about formatting and posting styles. On most high volume lists and even technical lists, common posting Courtesy gets responses to you posts and problems. Asking smart questions and telling what you've done and how you done it gets lots of points. I work a lot of hours, I don't have time to try and help people that don't "get it". You have a nice life you all. Moderator, you can bounce my post to the list from my gmail account *JUST* just show courtesy can be done easily. I am done. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071213/433e56b1/attachment-0001.pgp From jtr at jrichards.org Thu Dec 13 09:51:24 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:51:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Rants and email formatting In-Reply-To: <4761420F.3010402@pembrook.net> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <4761420F.3010402@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <20071213145123.GA8015@jrichards.org> On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 09:30:39AM -0500, David Pembrook wrote: > This whole discussion should be one on one from a list admin to the > offenders if there are any. The whole list's attention is drawn to > rants. why are we wasting the time and energy? I know other people that > have left the list simply because of the wasted time sorting out these > discussions. More time seems to be spent griping about those who gripe about bad etiquette than griping about the bad etiquette. > The powers that be need to step in and settle things off list where > needed, on list when appropriate. Otherwise this is just one big flame, > gripe and rant session and we loose people. > > Those that really really care, could devote their attention to a > modification to the list software that reformats the emails. Simple > rules; single line feeds are removed, doubles indicate a new paragraph. > HTML messages could be removed, and other annoyances removed. Hey, we > could even turn this into something constructive. These issues were settled long, long ago. Our internet forefathers figured out the best methods for communicating on a mailing list. What has changed since RFC 1855 was published that makes it obsolete? I have no desire to argue this issue. I am concerned about good communication. When I have to page down seven times to read what a statement at the top of an email is in response to, good communication is not happening. The guidelines in RFC 1855 are not pedantic; they are practical. They work in that they make electronic communication more effective. Surely we all want to be part of the GRLUG mailing list; no one is forcing a subscription. Since we all want to be a part of it, surely we want to communicate clearly and effectively. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, should we not use what has already been determined to be effective? [snip] -- john-thomas ------ They know enough who know how to learn. Henry Adams (1838-1918) From darth_linux at ameritech.net Thu Dec 13 10:00:35 2007 From: darth_linux at ameritech.net (eah) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:00:35 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] in need of Linux expert In-Reply-To: <200712130731.30642.darth_linux@ameritech.net> References: <200712122039.19680.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <200712130731.30642.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <200712131000.36439.darth_linux@ameritech.net> On Thursday 13 December 2007 07:31:30 am eah wrote: > On Wednesday 12 December 2007 22:50:41 pm Michael Mol wrote: > > On Dec 12, 2007 8:39 PM, eah wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > > > I have an opportunity to do some technical writing and need a subject > > > expert to aid me. If anyone is interested, please contact me right away > > > - the project needs to get started right away. > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > eric > > > > Can you be more specific? What subsystem do you need assistance with? > > The topic is desktop Linux. > > > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug to be more specific, I will be revising a course curriculum that includes Linux desktop, command line, simple programming in Linux, and an introduction to Apache. Please let me know right away if you would like to help out. The project would take about 3 months. (This is a paying gig.) thanks, eric From djk at oneisp.net Thu Dec 13 10:14:16 2007 From: djk at oneisp.net (Dennis Kaminski) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:14:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] in need of Linux expert In-Reply-To: <200712131000.36439.darth_linux@ameritech.net> References: <200712122039.19680.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <200712130731.30642.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <200712131000.36439.darth_linux@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <1197558856.5272.8.camel@lx52.ld> Eric, Are you looking for someone full-time, daytime for three months? Have you considered picking up a few books on the topic. I was browsing the Linux books at Barnes & Noble and it seems like the biggest problem would be deciding what not to include. Dennis Kaminski On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 10:00 -0500, eah wrote: > On Thursday 13 December 2007 07:31:30 am eah wrote: > > On Wednesday 12 December 2007 22:50:41 pm Michael Mol wrote: > > > On Dec 12, 2007 8:39 PM, eah wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > I have an opportunity to do some technical writing and need a subject > > > > expert to aid me. If anyone is interested, please contact me right away > > > > - the project needs to get started right away. > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > eric > > > > > > Can you be more specific? What subsystem do you need assistance with? > > > > The topic is desktop Linux. > > > > > > > > Eric > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > to be more specific, I will be revising a course curriculum that includes > Linux desktop, command line, simple programming in Linux, and an introduction > to Apache. > > Please let me know right away if you would like to help out. The project would > take about 3 months. (This is a paying gig.) > > thanks, > > eric > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > From rick at vargo.org Thu Dec 13 11:35:39 2007 From: rick at vargo.org (Rick Vargo) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:35:39 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> You guys are jumping to conclusions with no basis here and attacking somebody because you don't like the way he posts. An the funny part is that you are not attacking him because of the content but the format. This is very petty. There is no reason to attack Bob for his messages. Maybe he is visually impaired and uses assistive devices but doesn't like to divulge that information? There could be dozens of reasons his message format is the way it is... If you get this infuriated over little things I would hate to see what happens if your kid spills something on the rug. Do you beat them? Please grow up and get back to topics of Linux. Rick Collin Kidder wrote: >> ignoring posts means the list is useless. if it's just a formating issue, >> contact them off list. if it's a matter of professionalism on the mailing >> list, contact an admin so violating parties can be removed. >> >> eah >> _______________________________________________ >> >> > > I agree that ignoring posts really devalues the list. That's the whole > problem with Bob's posts: He's been told multiple times that it drives > people nuts and he still does it. Obviously having his posts valued does > not mean a lot to him. I don't care about top or bottom posting. > Personally I like top posting better but some people are really picky > and like bottom posting. That's fine, to each his own. Where the post > shows up relative to the quoted material is nowhere even close to as > annoying as > > reading a post > which is formatted > really small > so that it's really > annoying to read > the stupid thing. > > > Now, I haven't ignored any of Bob's posts or anyone elses posts on this > list but reasonable formatting of one's posts is really not that much to > ask. My only request is: please everyone, type your posts without any > more forced line breaks than necessary and I'll size my window the way I > want. Thank you! > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From adderd at kkmfg.com Thu Dec 13 11:48:21 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:48:21 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> Message-ID: <47616255.9030407@kkmfg.com> Just to settle this quickly (though it's getting old) I've never ignored him but I'm far from the only one to complain that his messages are hard to read. Regardless of whether he's got one eye, three fingers, a peg leg, and no teeth it's still very difficult to read. I don't think it's necessarily wrong to ask someone to post in a reasonable fashion. Someone here has already mentioned a good way to fix it -- That is, to modify the list software to reformat messages a bit better. Then he can post as narrow as he wants and nobody will care. I for one am not infuriated by any of this. Slightly annoyed at how narrowly he posts? Sure. Do I like bottom posting? No. There's plenty of little nitpicky things that I'm not the biggest fan of. But none of this is that big of a deal to me. There seem to be some people who are more bothered by it though. Let's just all agree to ignore whomever posts in an irritating fashion from now on. So Bob, post in 20 character wide columns and don't expect too many replies but don't expect any more criticism either. If people don't like top posting then ignore people like me. ;-) Rick Vargo wrote: > You guys are jumping to conclusions with no basis here and attacking > somebody because you don't like the way he posts. An the funny part is > that you are not attacking him because of the content but the format. > This is very petty. There is no reason to attack Bob for his messages. > Maybe he is visually impaired and uses assistive devices but doesn't > like to divulge that information? There could be dozens of reasons his > message format is the way it is... If you get this infuriated over > little things I would hate to see what happens if your kid spills > something on the rug. Do you beat them? Please grow up and get back to > topics of Linux. > > From ndrier at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 11:54:17 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:54:17 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Linux desktop marketshare In-Reply-To: <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> Agreed. There are far better things to worry about than how someone composes an email. Life is a little too short to get this worked up over something so simple. On Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM, Rick Vargo wrote: > You guys are jumping to conclusions with no basis here and attacking > somebody because you don't like the way he posts. An the funny part is > that you are not attacking him because of the content but the format. > This is very petty. There is no reason to attack Bob for his messages. > Maybe he is visually impaired and uses assistive devices but doesn't > like to divulge that information? There could be dozens of reasons his > message format is the way it is... If you get this infuriated over > little things I would hate to see what happens if your kid spills > something on the rug. Do you beat them? Please grow up and get back to > topics of Linux. > > Rick > > > Collin Kidder wrote: > >> ignoring posts means the list is useless. if it's just a formating > issue, > >> contact them off list. if it's a matter of professionalism on the > mailing > >> list, contact an admin so violating parties can be removed. > >> > >> eah > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> > > > > I agree that ignoring posts really devalues the list. That's the whole > > problem with Bob's posts: He's been told multiple times that it drives > > people nuts and he still does it. Obviously having his posts valued does > > not mean a lot to him. I don't care about top or bottom posting. > > Personally I like top posting better but some people are really picky > > and like bottom posting. That's fine, to each his own. Where the post > > shows up relative to the quoted material is nowhere even close to as > > annoying as > > > > reading a post > > which is formatted > > really small > > so that it's really > > annoying to read > > the stupid thing. > > > > > > Now, I haven't ignored any of Bob's posts or anyone elses posts on this > > list but reasonable formatting of one's posts is really not that much to > > ask. My only request is: please everyone, type your posts without any > > more forced line breaks than necessary and I'll size my window the way I > > want. Thank you! > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071213/08328f7f/attachment.htm From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Dec 13 12:18:02 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:18:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NEWS - Red Hat's Loss Is Ubuntu Linux's Gain Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46E6A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Red Hat's Loss Is Ubuntu Linux's Gain: http://techiqmag.com/2007/12/11/red-hats-loss-is-ubuntu-linuxs-gain/ Casey From djk at oneisp.net Thu Dec 13 12:26:07 2007 From: djk at oneisp.net (Dennis Kaminski) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:26:07 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> Message-ID: <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> Peace on earth, goodwill to men. From adderd at kkmfg.com Thu Dec 13 12:32:59 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:32:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> Message-ID: <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> Dennis Kaminski wrote: > Peace on earth, goodwill to men. > > Especially during the current flamewar! Peace! We need peace! ;-) Merry Christmas all! From ndrier at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 12:48:46 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan Drier) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:48:46 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> Collin Kidder wrote: > Dennis Kaminski wrote: > >> Peace on earth, goodwill to men. >> >> >> > Especially during the current flamewar! Peace! We need peace! ;-) > > Merry Christmas all! > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > http://hospitality.tamu.edu/graphics/Happy-Holidays-Tux-thumb_306x245.jpg to help the spirit a little bit.... From jtr at jrichards.org Thu Dec 13 13:00:51 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:00:51 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> References: <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071213180051.GA16792@jrichards.org> On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 12:48:46PM -0500, Nathan Drier wrote: > Collin Kidder wrote: > > Dennis Kaminski wrote: > > > >> Peace on earth, goodwill to men. > >> > > Especially during the current flamewar! Peace! We need peace! ;-) > > > > Merry Christmas all! > > > http://hospitality.tamu.edu/graphics/Happy-Holidays-Tux-thumb_306x245.jpg > > to help the spirit a little bit.... Part of me really wishes you would have sent the .jpg as an attachment. *That* would have been funny. ;-) -- john-thomas ------ A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813) From ndrier at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 13:07:19 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan Drier) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:07:19 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <20071213180051.GA16792@jrichards.org> References: <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> <20071213180051.GA16792@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <476174D7.9050601@gmail.com> john-thomas richards wrote: > On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 12:48:46PM -0500, Nathan Drier wrote: > >> Collin Kidder wrote: >> >>> Dennis Kaminski wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Peace on earth, goodwill to men. >>>> >>>> >>> Especially during the current flamewar! Peace! We need peace! ;-) >>> >>> Merry Christmas all! >>> >>> >> http://hospitality.tamu.edu/graphics/Happy-Holidays-Tux-thumb_306x245.jpg >> >> to help the spirit a little bit.... >> > > Part of me really wishes you would have sent the .jpg as an attachment. > *That* would have been funny. ;-) > I thought about it - but we have enough trouble as is ;-) From DARTH_LINUX at AMERITECH.NET Thu Dec 13 13:10:01 2007 From: DARTH_LINUX at AMERITECH.NET (DARTH_LINUX at AMERITECH.NET) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:10:01 -0800 Subject: [GRLUG] in need of Linux expert Message-ID: I need an actual someone to review transcripts I write. Not full-time. just a flat-fee contract gig. thanks, Eric From cdubois at n-vint.com Thu Dec 13 14:28:16 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:28:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47606478.30104@pembrook.net> <47612D27.5040002@kkmfg.com> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46EAB@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Thanks for the link to my new wallpaper and.... Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to ALL Casey -----Original Message----- From: Nathan Drier [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:49 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Holiday Season Collin Kidder wrote: > Dennis Kaminski wrote: > >> Peace on earth, goodwill to men. >> >> >> > Especially during the current flamewar! Peace! We need peace! ;-) > > Merry Christmas all! > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > http://hospitality.tamu.edu/graphics/Happy-Holidays-Tux-thumb_306x245.jpg to help the spirit a little bit.... _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From geektoyz at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 19:01:40 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:01:40 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46EAB@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <200712130813.05508.darth_linux@ameritech.net> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46EAB@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712131601l34e75b93t7d47c5a8e74f117f@mail.gmail.com> http://webtts.watson.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ttsclient30?text=Happy+Holidays+to+all+at+Grand+Rapids+Linux+Users+Group.&voice=HOK&nsfile=ttsclient30.wav Hopefully text wrapping doesn't ruin it... ;-) G- On Dec 13, 2007 2:28 PM, Casey DuBois wrote: > Thanks for the link to my new wallpaper and.... > > Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to ALL > > Casey > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nathan Drier [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:49 PM > To: grlug at grlug.org > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Holiday Season > > Collin Kidder wrote: > > Dennis Kaminski wrote: > > > >> Peace on earth, goodwill to men. > >> > >> > >> > > Especially during the current flamewar! Peace! We need peace! ;-) > > > > Merry Christmas all! > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > http://hospitality.tamu.edu/graphics/Happy-Holidays-Tux-thumb_306x245.jpg > > to help the spirit a little bit.... > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From geektoyz at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 19:23:16 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:23:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] [ADMIN] cleaning HTML (with DEFANGED) Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712131623g635570f2qc20c5e6107087aaa@mail.gmail.com> Greets all, I've adjusted the config so HTML email will not be cleaned (DEFANGED). Enjoy! G- -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From mikemol at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 19:28:48 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:28:48 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] [ADMIN] cleaning HTML (with DEFANGED) In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712131623g635570f2qc20c5e6107087aaa@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b72b8d10712131623g635570f2qc20c5e6107087aaa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 13, 2007 7:23 PM, Godwin wrote: > Greets all, > > I've adjusted the config so HTML email will not be cleaned (DEFANGED). > > Enjoy! > G- Thank you. I will. :-) -- :wq From justin.denick at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 09:17:36 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:17:36 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] I guess this is the last. In-Reply-To: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 13, 2007 9:39 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > I've tried to be nice. > > I've tried to ask nicely. > > You said buh-bye if you don't shut up about formatting and posting > styles. > > On most high volume lists and even technical lists, common posting > Courtesy gets responses to you posts and problems. > > Asking smart questions and telling what you've done and how you done it > gets lots of points. > > I work a lot of hours, I don't have time to try and help people that > don't "get it". > > You have a nice life you all. Did he just dump us for not conforming to his ideology? I guess this must be how Bill Gates feels when people move to Linux. :-) > > Moderator, you can bounce my post to the list from my gmail account > *JUST* just show courtesy can be done easily. > > I am done. > -- > greg at gregfolkert.net > PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 > Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C > Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 > Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From justin.denick at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 09:24:48 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:24:48 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday Season In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712131601l34e75b93t7d47c5a8e74f117f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1197394484.8836.1.camel@donw-laptop> <47613D78.3030700@kkmfg.com> <47615F5B.7080803@vargo.org> <7f08d14b0712130854r70ad4dc7o351f15b969c32b3d@mail.gmail.com> <1197566447.5272.11.camel@lx52.ld> <1197566768.5272.13.camel@lx52.ld> <47616CCB.4030006@kkmfg.com> <4761707E.2050904@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46EAB@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712131601l34e75b93t7d47c5a8e74f117f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712140624s7ea411e6s1364dbc30d459797@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 13, 2007 7:01 PM, Godwin wrote: > http://webtts.watson.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ttsclient30?text=Happy+Holidays+to+all+at+Grand+Rapids+Linux+Users+Group.&voice=HOK&nsfile=ttsclient30.wav > > Hopefully text wrapping doesn't ruin it... ;-) Happy Holidays to everyone. I hope your Christmas is filled with joy and love. Be kind to the Bell Ringers, and chip in a litlte if you can. Those guys at Toys-for-Tots and the Salvation Army have made many of my Christmas' warmer than they would have been if it weren't for the kindness of those who give. Blessings > > > G- > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2007 2:28 PM, Casey DuBois wrote: > > Thanks for the link to my new wallpaper and.... > > > > Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to ALL > > > > Casey > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nathan Drier [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:49 PM > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Holiday Season > > > > Collin Kidder wrote: > > > Dennis Kaminski wrote: > > > > > >> Peace on earth, goodwill to men. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Especially during the current flamewar! Peace! We need peace! ;-) > > > > > > Merry Christmas all! > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > http://hospitality.tamu.edu/graphics/Happy-Holidays-Tux-thumb_306x245.jpg > > > > to help the spirit a little bit.... > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From adderd at kkmfg.com Fri Dec 14 09:39:07 2007 From: adderd at kkmfg.com (Collin Kidder) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:39:07 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] I guess this is the last. In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4762958B.2030205@kkmfg.com> > > > Did he just dump us for not conforming to his ideology? > I guess this must be how Bill Gates feels when people > move to Linux. :-) > > Well, to be fair I think he just ditched the list because people are too skittish to insist on decent posting standards. The very fact that this topic comes up on every mailing list on the planet on a nearly monthly basis would suggest that it's not something you can just ignore. It's got to be dealt with whether people have the guts to or not. And, well, some people take it more seriously than others I guess. ;-) From greg at gregfolkert.net Fri Dec 14 10:34:10 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:34:10 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] I guess this is the last. In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197646450.10905.5.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 09:17 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > On Dec 13, 2007 9:39 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: [snip] > > > > You have a nice life you all. > > Did he just dump us for not conforming to his ideology? > I guess this must be how Bill Gates feels when people > move to Linux. :-) Ok, second to last. But, no. If you look at the messages, you'll see more than one person doing round about "quit bitching about Posting Standards or we will get the admin to remove you from the list". I took that as my queue that to quit. I've just not actually taken the time to do it, yet. And its NOT MY IDEOLOGY. There is RFC standards and other many references to read up on. But since many here are to freakin' lazy to read and be courteous in those regards, they'd rather me be kicked off the list. And for the record: You ever compare me to Bill Gates again... things won't be pretty. Tr-La-La... really my last. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071214/d10f632e/attachment.pgp From justin.denick at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 10:45:46 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:45:46 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] I guess this is the last. In-Reply-To: <1197646450.10905.5.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> <1197646450.10905.5.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712140745l11b8a850yd84ce39d0e6bf66a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 14, 2007 10:34 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 09:17 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > > On Dec 13, 2007 9:39 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > [snip] > > > > > > You have a nice life you all. > > > > Did he just dump us for not conforming to his ideology? > > I guess this must be how Bill Gates feels when people > > move to Linux. :-) > > Ok, second to last. > > But, no. If you look at the messages, you'll see more than one person > doing round about "quit bitching about Posting Standards or we will get > the admin to remove you from the list". > > I took that as my queue that to quit. I've just not actually taken the > time to do it, yet. > > And its NOT MY IDEOLOGY. There is RFC standards and other many > references to read up on. But since many here are to freakin' lazy to > read and be courteous in those regards, they'd rather me be kicked off > the list. > > And for the record: You ever compare me to Bill Gates again... things > won't be pretty. > Sorry Greg. I didn't mean to make you out to be Bill Gates. I just seen some humor and decided to lighten it up a bit. Have a Merry Christmas > Tr-La-La... really my last. > -- > > greg at gregfolkert.net > PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 > Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C > Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 > Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From David at Pembrook.net Fri Dec 14 10:40:36 2007 From: David at Pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:40:36 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] I guess this is the last. In-Reply-To: <4762958B.2030205@kkmfg.com> References: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> <4762958B.2030205@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <1197646836.19400.57.camel@localhost> The whole reason I jumped in with my 2 cents was that I don't see the point in hammering posting standards down people's throats. For example, I'm writing this in Evolution, this client seems to want to wrap text at a certain width. I see your text wrapped at a set width. On thunderbird I don't have that issue composing. But based on previous rants, my email and your's is "out of spec". I have to remember.. no line feeds except to start a new paragraph. I'll have to poke around in the settings and find that option. Or do i?? We're starting fights over preference and standards written so long ago that only the few follow them. And those same few start the rants that distract us from the learning and enjoyment this list is capable of providing. I don't think this can or should be ignored... One answer is freedom to post as one see's appropriate and tolorate other people's styles. Dave On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 09:39 -0500, Collin Kidder wrote: > > > > > > Did he just dump us for not conforming to his ideology? > > I guess this must be how Bill Gates feels when people > > move to Linux. :-) > > > > > Well, to be fair I think he just ditched the list because people are too > skittish to insist on decent posting standards. The very fact that this > topic comes up on every mailing list on the planet on a nearly monthly > basis would suggest that it's not something you can just ignore. It's > got to be dealt with whether people have the guts to or not. And, well, > some people take it more seriously than others I guess. ;-) > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From mzuverink at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 10:49:30 2007 From: mzuverink at gmail.com (Marc Zuverink) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:49:30 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] I guess this is the last. In-Reply-To: <4762958B.2030205@kkmfg.com> References: <1197556783.3751.198.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712140617tb211a02o8bb620fa3be172b@mail.gmail.com> <4762958B.2030205@kkmfg.com> Message-ID: <3524effc0712140749y36989105tbe90a8f6d23c691b@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 14, 2007 9:39 AM, Collin Kidder wrote: > > > > > > Did he just dump us for not conforming to his ideology? > > I guess this must be how Bill Gates feels when people > > move to Linux. :-) > Well, to be fair I think he just ditched the list because people are too > skittish to insist on decent posting standards. The very fact that this > topic comes up on every mailing list on the planet on a nearly monthly > basis would suggest that it's not something you can just ignore. It's > got to be dealt with whether people have the guts to or not. And, well, > some people take it more seriously than others I guess. ;-) > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > I can not believe we have had to have yet another posting(series of postings and are losing members over the way people choose to post. The last I checked the RFC there was no directive regarding the proper way to post and or reply. Personally I do not like top posters, yet do it on occasion for a quick answer on a series of rapidly fired off email in a conversation with a single individual, when and when reading the whole thread is impractical due to the little time involved in the series of exchanges. I do however feel its important to not top post on a mailing list for the benefit of people who start following a thread late. Its just more natural to read the whole exchange and replies in it original context. however, when people do not show such courtesy it is really not that difficult to decipher whats being said, provided you have patience and a brain. Tolerance here I think is the key. If someone wants to depart the list over something that is really quite trivial, well then let im take himself else where's. Granted he has contributed positively to the list in the past and I am sure he will be sorely missed by some, including myself. That said, I do find it disturbing that he has been unable to move past such trivial issues. I for one will welcome him back with open arms if he so chooses to come back in the future. I hope he does. And I have found what he has stated regarding posting to be exactly the way I 99.9% of the time operate, and agree with him whole heartedly regarding the issues he has addressed. I am disturbed though by his lack of tolerance. I think that their are a portion of people on this list who are stubborn and cannot change their ways, and of course other who just don't care, they get their message out and thats whats important to them, they've been heard and hopefully their issues have been resolved. I am not pointing ay fingers at anyone, thats not what I am writing this for. I am writing to plead for tolerence and overall a call to everyone to understand human nature. People and the way they do things are all unique. I thinks its a waste of bandwidth to have a 40 thread conversation regarding the way that one cat posts all his messages as if they are typewritten to be printed in a newspaper, who cares how he posts? The fact is we are supposed to be a community and critisizing people for there methods and running away are not ways to solve problems. Furthermore I think most will agree that style of posting is not such a big deal. Netiquette and etiquette are all subjective and are applied differently bt different people and different cultures. In some parts of our globe it's considered proper eiquette to belch after a meal to demomstrate you enjoyed the meal. If someone did that at one of the LUG meetings, would some smug member then quite after that too? I'm dumbfounded by this whole issue, its ridiculous. I've said my peace, thanks for listening -- Marc Zuverink I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. -Hunter S. Thompson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071214/b5588131/attachment-0001.htm From cdubois at n-vint.com Fri Dec 14 13:29:59 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:29:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] NEWS - The Linux Foundation's Jim Zemlin: Linux Adoption's Next Phase Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6C46F5F@NVMBX01.nvint.local> The Linux Foundation's Jim Zemlin: Linux Adoption's Next Phase http://www.technewsworld.com/story/The-Linux-Foundations-Jim-Zemlin-Linux-Adoptions-Next-Phase-60718.html Casey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071214/8960b8e4/attachment.htm From radiodurans at yahoo.com Sun Dec 16 12:14:32 2007 From: radiodurans at yahoo.com (John Harig) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 09:14:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GRLUG] Holiday message riddle Message-ID: <297011.28757.qm@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For anyone interested in a holiday programming riddle, try to guess the output of this plain TeX source code. To generate the output, be sure to have a LaTeX package (like TeXlive) that includes the "tex / pdftex" command. then to have a .pdf file it is just a matter of: > pdftex holiday.tex to see what this bizarre code outputs into a pdf. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: holiday.tex Type: text/x-tex Size: 767 bytes Desc: 2410129935-holiday.tex Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071216/a1691926/attachment.tex From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:22:07 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:22:07 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Kubuntu 7.10 monitor issue Message-ID: Following up on a thread from November 1, I installed Kubuntu 7.04 on a machine and found that while the monitor type is correct in /etc/X11/xorg.conf, other parameters are not. This results in vertical colored lines about every inch across across the screen. I then installed Kubuntu 7.10 as an upgrade. I have no reason to think the devices were investigated or changed during the upgrade, and that I can tell nothing was changed. In particular, the monitor parameters are still not correct, and I still get the vertical colored lines. I played around with the settings a bit, but nothing useful resulted. So the question is this. If I wanted to run the setup software manually that is using during the installation, or, presumably, when a new device is installed, what is it called? Why do that? I'm not sure. I have read that people have done this and it cured what was ailing their Kubuntu system. The machine uses the Intel i810 chip set. I gather there are problems between this and Kubuntu. This machine and the monitor worked fine with a version of Mandriva, so I have no reason to suspect any hardware problems. That I can tell so far, the monitor is the only hardware issue. Anyone have any suggestions? -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071217/83c08362/attachment.htm From slestak989 at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:30:55 2007 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:30:55 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Kubuntu 7.10 monitor issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4766CE6F.5000908@gmail.com> Bob Kline wrote: > > > So the question is this. If I wanted to run > the setup software manually that is using during > the installation, or, presumably, when a new > device is installed, what is it called? I think dpkg-reconfigure xorg-server is what you want. From brousch at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:32:19 2007 From: brousch at gmail.com (Ben Rousch) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:32:19 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Kubuntu 7.10 monitor issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 17, 2007 2:22 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > The machine uses the Intel i810 chip set. > I gather there are problems between this and > Kubuntu. This machine and the monitor > worked fine with a version of Mandriva, so > I have no reason to suspect any hardware > problems. That I can tell so far, the monitor > is the only hardware issue. > > Anyone have any suggestions? > You could run Mandriva and get the (correct) monitor settings it uses then put them into your own xorg.conf in Kubuntu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071217/71f5d908/attachment-0001.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:41:17 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:41:17 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Kubuntu 7.10 monitor issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 17, 2007 2:32 PM, Ben Rousch wrote: > On Dec 17, 2007 2:22 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > > The machine uses the Intel i810 chip set. > > I gather there are problems between this and > > Kubuntu. This machine and the monitor > > worked fine with a version of Mandriva, so > > I have no reason to suspect any hardware > > problems. That I can tell so far, the monitor > > is the only hardware issue. > > > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > > > You could run Mandriva and get the (correct) monitor settings it uses then > put them into your own xorg.conf in Kubuntu. > > Indeed. That would have been exactly the thing to do if I'd had any suspicion I'd get burned. I'll do it now as a last resort... -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071217/92bb4839/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 14:42:01 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:42:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Kubuntu 7.10 monitor issue In-Reply-To: <4766CE6F.5000908@gmail.com> References: <4766CE6F.5000908@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 17, 2007 2:30 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > Bob Kline wrote: > > > > > > So the question is this. If I wanted to run > > the setup software manually that is using during > > the installation, or, presumably, when a new > > device is installed, what is it called? > I think dpkg-reconfigure xorg-server is what you want. > Thanks. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071217/6a020608/attachment.htm From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 18:51:42 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:51:42 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Kubuntu 7.10 monitor issue In-Reply-To: <4766CE6F.5000908@gmail.com> References: <4766CE6F.5000908@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 17, 2007 2:30 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > Bob Kline wrote: > > > > > > So the question is this. If I wanted to run > > the setup software manually that is using during > > the installation, or, presumably, when a new > > device is installed, what is it called? > I think dpkg-reconfigure xorg-server is what you want. > I ran the command above and got a message saying that xorg-server was not installed. Thinking maybe it was not installed when the OS was installed, even if it was used, I tried apt-get install xorg-server and the message was there is no such thing. If it makes any difference, I am running a desktop version of Kubuntu, something I neglected to mention in the first message. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071217/ae161492/attachment.htm From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon Dec 17 19:04:17 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:04:17 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Kubuntu 7.10 monitor issue In-Reply-To: References: <4766CE6F.5000908@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197936257.1341.45.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 18:51 -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > On Dec 17, 2007 2:30 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > Bob Kline wrote: > > > > > > So the question is this. If I wanted to run > > the setup software manually that is using during > > the installation, or, presumably, when a new > > device is installed, what is it called? > > I think dpkg-reconfigure xorg-server is what you want. > > I ran the command above and got a > message saying that xorg-server was > not installed. > > Thinking maybe it was not installed > when the OS was installed, even if it > was used, I tried > > apt-get install xorg-server and the > message was there is no such thing. > > If it makes any difference, I am running > a desktop version of Kubuntu, something > I neglected to mention in the first message. Boy, sure would be nice if someone that knows that answer to Bob's conundrum was around. sudo /usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg -plow And select your settings from there. Oh, there are a bunch of other easy tools... but seeing as the idiot the knows about them is such a horrible anal retentive person, I seriously doubt you'd want to here the relatively simple and pretty easy fix. -- greg at gregfolkert.net PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05 Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C Alternate Fingerprint: 09F9 1102 9D74 E35B D841 56C5 6356 88C0 Alternate Fingerprint: 455F E104 22CA 29C4 933F 9505 2B79 2AB2 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071217/40e17001/attachment-0001.pgp From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 00:25:54 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 05:25:54 +0000 Subject: [GRLUG] Graphics Card up for grabs Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712242125i7e509357n156cbb1ad13e47c1@mail.gmail.com> I have a lightly used one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130076 EVGA 256Mb AGP Nvidia 7600GS It does DirectX 9.0c, and OpenGL 2.0 Formerly used to play Supreme Commander at respectable framerates before upgrading to a system with PCI-E and without AGP :( Going rate for new is at the URL above, email with an offer if interested. Happy Holidays --tim From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 12:54:32 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 17:54:32 +0000 Subject: [GRLUG] Graphics Card up for grabs In-Reply-To: References: <2c97fe9d0712242125i7e509357n156cbb1ad13e47c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712250954v28fba9a6m3178a8c7a14ae52@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 25, 2007 10:51 AM, David Pembrook wrote: > Tim, > > Do you have all the cables that came with it? It looks to have component > outputs (RGB). I could use it for my tv computer. > > Dave Yes. I have all the cables. I could probably even dig up the manual and driver CD, but drivers from the net are newer anyway. --tim From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 25 21:50:34 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 02:50:34 +0000 Subject: [GRLUG] Graphics Card up for grabs In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712242125i7e509357n156cbb1ad13e47c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c97fe9d0712242125i7e509357n156cbb1ad13e47c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712251850p27619f7cp8d16bb96e8d47ef2@mail.gmail.com> David nabbed it, so if anyone else wants it, bug him :) --tim From david at pembrook.net Wed Dec 26 09:07:52 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:07:52 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Graphics Card up for grabs In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712251850p27619f7cp8d16bb96e8d47ef2@mail.gmail.com> References: <2c97fe9d0712242125i7e509357n156cbb1ad13e47c1@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712251850p27619f7cp8d16bb96e8d47ef2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47726038.4000409@pembrook.net> Tim Schmidt wrote: > David nabbed it, so if anyone else wants it, bug him :) > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Oh thanks! Though I do have a nice matrox triple head (3 monitor) agp card with 128mb ram on the shelf. Very nice if your not into gaming. Dave From david at pembrook.net Wed Dec 26 09:32:16 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:32:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] mythtv Message-ID: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> For though that might have tried MythTV some time ago and got frustrated with the whole thing... I'm happy to report they've come a long way on that. One can install and hook it right up to the tv without hitting the command line once. I still wind up there tweaking it a bit.. nfs mounts and what not. But it handled the tv out settings and nvidia drivers all by itself. The remote control is handled well (some tweaking to do there). I tried both knoppmyth and mythbuntu and found I liked the mythbuntu a bit better in the end (though there are some pluses for either of them). Nice out of the box experience with room for tweaking for those inclined. The whole thing is pretty slick and installs in under an hour. I didn't time it. Anyone else on the list using mythtv? Dave From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 09:44:05 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:44:05 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] mythtv In-Reply-To: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> References: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712260644h4bbb1651n3f5748c6940ef32d@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 26, 2007 9:32 AM, David Pembrook wrote: > Anyone else on the list using mythtv? Since v0.08 The latest Mythbuntu _is_ incredibly slick. I was impressed. --tim From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 09:58:21 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:58:21 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] mythtv In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712260644h4bbb1651n3f5748c6940ef32d@mail.gmail.com> References: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> <2c97fe9d0712260644h4bbb1651n3f5748c6940ef32d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 26, 2007 9:44 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 26, 2007 9:32 AM, David Pembrook wrote: > > Anyone else on the list using mythtv? > > Since v0.08 > > The latest Mythbuntu _is_ incredibly slick. I was impressed. > > --tim > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > I just switch from mythdora to mythubuntu and love it. besides the usual tweaking I have to do with my remote, a universal remote acting like a PVR-150 MCE remote, Everything works great. Does anyone know of a good way to get podcast, particularly bitorrent podcast to integrate with mythtv? From david at pembrook.net Wed Dec 26 10:52:39 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:52:39 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] mythtv In-Reply-To: References: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> <2c97fe9d0712260644h4bbb1651n3f5748c6940ef32d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477278C7.70706@pembrook.net> Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > On Dec 26, 2007 9:44 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > >> On Dec 26, 2007 9:32 AM, David Pembrook wrote: >> >>> Anyone else on the list using mythtv? >>> >> Since v0.08 >> >> The latest Mythbuntu _is_ incredibly slick. I was impressed. >> >> --tim >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> >> > > I just switch from mythdora to mythubuntu and love it. besides the > usual tweaking I have to do with my remote, a universal remote acting > like a PVR-150 MCE remote, Everything works great. > > Does anyone know of a good way to get podcast, particularly bitorrent > podcast to integrate with mythtv? > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > I was poking around a bit in the file structure.. The menus should be easy to modify. I'm not sure how hard it would be to make a module or pass commands a shell. But if one can do that easily, anything that can be done on the command line could easily but added. I'm going to be poking around in the videos area myself as I don't like how it handles them. When scanning directories, it adds every file it finds to the list of videos. I'd like to modify it to display a list format instead of the "icons" it uses now. I also need to look over more of the settings to make sure I'm not missing things. I hope the next generation MythTV will improve its media searching and sorting functionality for those with large media libraries. I'm still not complaining as its come a long way. Dave From david at pembrook.net Wed Dec 26 12:01:19 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:01:19 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] mythtv In-Reply-To: References: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> <2c97fe9d0712260644h4bbb1651n3f5748c6940ef32d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477288DF.4000509@pembrook.net> Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > Does anyone know of a good way to get podcast, particularly bitorrent > podcast to integrate with mythtv? > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > I was looking around the myth wiki and found a couple addons for podcasting and other interesting stuff http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Unofficial_Plugins From thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com Wed Dec 26 13:04:08 2007 From: thisboyiscrazy at gmail.com (Joe Vanderstelt) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:04:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] mythtv In-Reply-To: <477288DF.4000509@pembrook.net> References: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> <2c97fe9d0712260644h4bbb1651n3f5748c6940ef32d@mail.gmail.com> <477288DF.4000509@pembrook.net> Message-ID: On Dec 26, 2007 12:01 PM, David Pembrook wrote: > Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > > Does anyone know of a good way to get podcast, particularly bitorrent > > podcast to integrate with mythtv? > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > I was looking around the myth wiki and found a couple addons for > podcasting and other interesting stuff > > http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Unofficial_Plugins > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Torrentocracy the bittorrent plug is no longer active. From david at pembrook.net Wed Dec 26 13:13:21 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:13:21 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] mythtv In-Reply-To: References: <477265F0.6070507@pembrook.net> <2c97fe9d0712260644h4bbb1651n3f5748c6940ef32d@mail.gmail.com> <477288DF.4000509@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <477299C1.7010708@pembrook.net> Joe Vanderstelt wrote: > Torrentocracy the bittorrent plug is no longer active. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > I noticed that! I was tempted to look up the domain owner's email address and see if the code could be obtained. Another idea would be to use existing command line tools. In looking through to menu documentation, I see it is easy to run commands on the system. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Menu_theme_development_guide Look at helpful tips and you'll see how to add a button that shell's out a command. That command could be a perl script, which could easily connect to the db, check settings, add entries and move downloaded files where they need to be for myth. I wish I had time today to play around with that.. Off to the last Christmas party of the season this afternoon soon. Dave From airplanejay at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 21:39:24 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:39:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ Message-ID: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately, due to some circumstances, I needed to switch over to Windows. Fortunately I have access to XP so it's not a total loss... yet. The unfortunate side is that I now have 4 gigs of XP and ~ 70 gigs of missing data. What I did was create an empty partition and installed XP into it. Well, now I have XP but XP won't even acknowledge that I have more than 4 gigs of harddrive. So, I was thinking that some of you guys who duel boot could help me out with this problem. And, if I haven't screwed things up royally yet, I'd like to see if I can get my system to duelboot. -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/defanged-11 Size: 692 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071228/bd77ee68/attachment-0001.bin From david at pembrook.net Sun Dec 30 07:42:11 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:42:11 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> Jason Kisner wrote: > Unfortunately, due to some circumstances, I needed to switch over to > Windows. Fortunately I have access to XP so it's not a total loss... yet. > The unfortunate side is that I now have 4 gigs of XP and ~ 70 gigs of > missing data. What I did was create an empty partition and installed XP into > it. Well, now I have XP but XP won't even acknowledge that I have more than > 4 gigs of harddrive. So, I was thinking that some of you guys who duel boot > could help me out with this problem. And, if I haven't screwed things up > royally yet, I'd like to see if I can get my system to duelboot. > > run "diskmgmt.msc". You should see the Linux partitions. Windows just doesn't know what to do with them. Thats probably why it doesn't see more than the 4gig windows partition. As I see it you'll need a fat32 partition that can be used safely by either operating system for data. Linux currently doesn't safely write to NTFS partitions. Another simple fix is a USB/Firewire external hard drive which I have used cross platform with no issues. Dave From ben at eavey.com Sun Dec 30 16:08:53 2007 From: ben at eavey.com (Benjamin Eavey) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:08:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ In-Reply-To: <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> References: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> > As I see it you'll need a fat32 partition that can be used safely by > either operating system for data. Linux currently doesn't safely write > to NTFS partitions. It doesn't? My dual-boot Gutsy install mounts my NTFS partition read/write by default, and I haven't had any problems yet. Granted, I don't write to it very often, but I have the ability to. -Ben From david at pembrook.net Sun Dec 30 17:03:18 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:03:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ In-Reply-To: <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> References: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> Message-ID: <477815A6.5080503@pembrook.net> Benjamin Eavey wrote: >> As I see it you'll need a fat32 partition that can be used safely by >> either operating system for data. Linux currently doesn't safely write >> to NTFS partitions. >> > > It doesn't? My dual-boot Gutsy install mounts my NTFS partition > read/write by default, and I haven't had any problems yet. Granted, I > don't write to it very often, but I have the ability to. > > -Ben > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > I read that in the past and then confirmed it on the official looking Linux-NTFS.org site. Well, it currently says very limited write support. In the past it was labeled as unsafe for writing. http://www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php From david at pembrook.net Sun Dec 30 17:22:47 2007 From: david at pembrook.net (David Pembrook) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:22:47 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ In-Reply-To: <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> References: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> Message-ID: <47781A37.3090102@pembrook.net> Benjamin Eavey wrote: >> As I see it you'll need a fat32 partition that can be used safely by >> either operating system for data. Linux currently doesn't safely write >> to NTFS partitions. >> > > It doesn't? My dual-boot Gutsy install mounts my NTFS partition > read/write by default, and I haven't had any problems yet. Granted, I > don't write to it very often, but I have the ability to. > > -Ben > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > further reading contradicts me further LOL.. while the kernel driver isn't safe for writing.. ntfsmount apparently is reliable read/write. http://www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php?id=ntfsmount All things change in time I guess. Dave From airplanejay at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 20:55:52 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:55:52 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ In-Reply-To: <47781A37.3090102@pembrook.net> References: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> <47781A37.3090102@pembrook.net> Message-ID: <5b9edb810712301755w36a7762aqdef6313800cd627b@mail.gmail.com> thanks for all the info,but I think Faeren's got a solution for me. On Dec 30, 2007 5:22 PM, David Pembrook wrote: > Benjamin Eavey wrote: > >> As I see it you'll need a fat32 partition that can be used safely by > >> either operating system for data. Linux currently doesn't safely write > >> to NTFS partitions. > >> > > > > It doesn't? My dual-boot Gutsy install mounts my NTFS partition > > read/write by default, and I haven't had any problems yet. Granted, I > > don't write to it very often, but I have the ability to. > > > > -Ben > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > further reading contradicts me further LOL.. while the kernel driver > isn't safe for writing.. ntfsmount apparently is reliable read/write. > > http://www.linux-ntfs.org/doku.php?id=ntfsmount > > All things change in time I guess. > > Dave > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071230/950224d1/attachment-0001.htm From faeren at faeren.com Sun Dec 30 21:22:00 2007 From: faeren at faeren.com (Faeren Madza) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:22:00 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ In-Reply-To: <5b9edb810712301755w36a7762aqdef6313800cd627b@mail.gmail.com> References: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> <47781A37.3090102@pembrook.net> <5b9edb810712301755w36a7762aqdef6313800cd627b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 30, 2007 8:55 PM, Jason Kisner wrote: > thanks for all the info,but I think Faeren's got a solution for me. Jason, My "solution" was actually not original. Someone else suggested it previously. Move your stuff to another HDD, repartition [leaving room for a partition that both Linux & XP can read] and then re-install your OSes. It wold be really tricky if you did not have a spare HDD, but you do. Makes all the difference. Enjoy. Faeren. From airplanejay at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 21:29:03 2007 From: airplanejay at gmail.com (Jason Kisner) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 21:29:03 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Windows Switchover... T.T, possible duel boot... ^_^ In-Reply-To: References: <5b9edb810712281839x24293c29p349a60d7a9ada482@mail.gmail.com> <47779223.7020909@pembrook.net> <477808E5.6050000@eavey.com> <47781A37.3090102@pembrook.net> <5b9edb810712301755w36a7762aqdef6313800cd627b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5b9edb810712301829g4b22205ak854371f6a1f3ae42@mail.gmail.com> And I appreciate it. Thanx a lot. I was just sayin' the solution you gave me would work. not that it was your's originally. On Dec 30, 2007 9:22 PM, Faeren Madza wrote: > On Dec 30, 2007 8:55 PM, Jason Kisner wrote: > > thanks for all the info,but I think Faeren's got a solution for me. > > Jason, > > My "solution" was actually not original. Someone else suggested it > previously. > > Move your stuff to another HDD, repartition [leaving room for a > partition that both Linux & XP can read] and then re-install your > OSes. It wold be really tricky if you did not have a spare HDD, but > you do. Makes all the difference. > > Enjoy. > > > Faeren. > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Rensik nosaj si eman ym. Worromot rof nalp, yadot rof evil. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071230/b00b390c/attachment.htm