From jtr at jrichards.org Sat Dec 1 15:00:18 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 15:00:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another Message-ID: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? -- john-thomas ------ I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. Voltaire (1694-1778) From dond at standalelumber.com Sat Dec 1 20:51:09 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:51:09 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? From driveray at ameritech.net Sat Dec 1 21:15:34 2007 From: driveray at ameritech.net (Raymond McLaughlin) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:15:34 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> I was going to suggest this too. I'm mostly a KDE guy, but I have used some gnome apps (evolution for one) and been frustrated that some but not all the settings were kept in it's own dot folder. Definitely grep around in .gnome or .gnome2, or what ever, for any references to the app. It could be something as simple as an impossible window size (like with a negative number) in a recent programs description. If this yields no joy, and you want to fight with it you can create a new user, log in as this new user and make sure gnomesword works for this user. Backup this new user's config (~/.gnome*) then start copying config files from you wife's folder to the new user's. When the app breaks you've found your. A root shell would be handy here. Start with the most likely sounding filenames first, and don't forget to chown them so the new user has full access to them. God luck Raymond McLaughlin Don Wood wrote: > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? > > > > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: >> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have >> on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When >> she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The >> Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When >> she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is >> "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the >> GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all >> the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run >> for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app >> will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really >> puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > From geektoyz at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 12:54:30 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 12:54:30 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> I could set these up... What's the general LUG consensus? G- On Nov 30, 2007 9:33 AM, Casey DuBois wrote: > Some LUG's have multiple lists. > > We could do: > GRLUG-List (standard listings) > GRLUG-Jobs > GRLUG-Classifieds (hardware/software for free/sale) > > I really like the idea of keeping 1 list and noting GENERAL, JOBS OR CLASSIFIED in the header field. > > Casey > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john-thomas richards [mailto:jtr at jrichards.org] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:57 AM > To: grlug at grlug.org > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 12:35:56AM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > On Nov 29, 2007 9:50 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote: > > > Thanks for the responses regarding the magazines. I have to agree with Ray > > > that with the list GRLUG sponsored, that topics would be Linux related. > > > Well, I've got a bunch of older Linux magazines and their partner DVD's. > > > E-mail me directly if your interested for the inventory. > > > > Perhaps we could agree on a subject prefix to denote more general > > threads? Say, "GENERAL:". That way, those of us interested in more > > general threads can read them, while people sufficiently disinterested > > in such threads can put a filter in their IM client. > > > > I'd otherwise suggest a general at grlug.org sister list, but I have no > > doubt such a list would eventually fall into disuse, with its topics > > showing up in the main list again. > > At one time we had a 'grlug-chat' sister list but it was seldom used. > The premise was for general, well, *chat* that was off-topic for grlug > proper. > -- > john-thomas > ------ > Westheimer's Discovery: A couple of months in the laboratory can save a > couple of hours in the library. > Frank H. Westheimer, chemistry professor (1912- ) > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 13:24:53 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:24:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: My opinion would be to not bother for now. At present there is more discussion of multiple lists than discussion itself. If/when the current list becomes bogged down with meaningful entries it might be time to consider fragmenting the topics. The point about people submitting items for sale is probably a good case in point. It comes up now and then that someone wants to unload a PC component, or get suggestions about a component for a project they are working on. It's not Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as a group it was never really decided just what Linux is.... ), but it doesn't really bog the list down in any realistic way. Not enough to have to sit back and think about what list category one's question should go in, and then set off big flame wars about whether one made the right choice rather than discuss the issue at hand... - Bob On Dec 2, 2007 12:54 PM, Godwin wrote: > I could set these up... What's the general LUG consensus? > > G- > > > On Nov 30, 2007 9:33 AM, Casey DuBois wrote: > > Some LUG's have multiple lists. > > > > We could do: > > GRLUG-List (standard listings) > > GRLUG-Jobs > > GRLUG-Classifieds (hardware/software for free/sale) > > > > I really like the idea of keeping 1 list and noting GENERAL, JOBS OR > CLASSIFIED in the header field. > > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: john-thomas richards [mailto:jtr at jrichards.org] > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:57 AM > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade > > > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 12:35:56AM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > > On Nov 29, 2007 9:50 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt > wrote: > > > > Thanks for the responses regarding the magazines. I have to agree > with Ray > > > > that with the list GRLUG sponsored, that topics would be Linux > related. > > > > Well, I've got a bunch of older Linux magazines and their partner > DVD's. > > > > E-mail me directly if your interested for the inventory. > > > > > > Perhaps we could agree on a subject prefix to denote more general > > > threads? Say, "GENERAL:". That way, those of us interested in more > > > general threads can read them, while people sufficiently disinterested > > > in such threads can put a filter in their IM client. > > > > > > I'd otherwise suggest a general at grlug.org sister list, but I have no > > > doubt such a list would eventually fall into disuse, with its topics > > > showing up in the main list again. > > > > At one time we had a 'grlug-chat' sister list but it was seldom used. > > The premise was for general, well, *chat* that was off-topic for grlug > > proper. > > -- > > john-thomas > > ------ > > Westheimer's Discovery: A couple of months in the laboratory can save a > > couple of hours in the library. > > Frank H. Westheimer, chemistry professor (1912- ) > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071202/304d0346/attachment-0001.htm From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 17:43:34 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:43:34 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:24:53PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: [snip] > It's not > Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as > a group it was never really decided just > what Linux is.... ), [snip] Yes, it was decided, Bob. It's called "Debian." Sheesh. As if we have no consensus around here. -- john-thomas ------ Democracy is good. I say this because other systems are worse. Jawaharlal Nehru From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 17:45:15 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:45:15 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> Message-ID: <20071202224515.GB8404@jrichards.org> On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 08:51:09PM -0500, Don Wood wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > > on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > > she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > > Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > > she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > > "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > > GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > > the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > > for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > > will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > > puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? Yes, there is an entry in ~/.gnome2. I renamed it and tried to run the app again. Same result. -- john-thomas ------ Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think. Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914) [The Devil's Dictionary] From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 17:50:58 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 17:50:58 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <20071202225058.GC8404@jrichards.org> On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 09:15:34PM -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > Don Wood wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > >> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > >> on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > >> she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > >> Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > >> she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > >> "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > >> GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > >> the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > >> for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > >> will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > >> puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > > > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? > I was going to suggest this too. I'm mostly a KDE guy, but I have used > some gnome apps (evolution for one) and been frustrated that some but > not all the settings were kept in it's own dot folder. Definitely grep > around in .gnome or .gnome2, or what ever, for any references to the > app. It could be something as simple as an impossible window size > (like > with a negative number) in a recent programs description. > > If this yields no joy, and you want to fight with it you can create a > new user, log in as this new user and make sure gnomesword works for > this user. Backup this new user's config (~/.gnome*) then start > copying > config files from you wife's folder to the new user's. When the app > breaks you've found your. > > A root shell would be handy here. Start with the most likely sounding > filenames first, and don't forget to chown them so the new user has > full > access to them. Here is the content of the ~/.gnome2/gnomesword config file: djr at bird:~/.gnome2$ cat gnomesword [Placement] Dock=toolbarNav\\0,1,0,0\\Menubar\\0,0,0,0 I am not sure what this means. (Buehler?) I have not found any other files that appear related to this app. I will keep searching, though. -- john-thomas ------ The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment. Robert Maynard Hutchins, educator (1899-1977) From bob.kline at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 18:01:29 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:01:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> Message-ID: On Dec 2, 2007 5:43 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:24:53PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > [snip] > > It's not > > Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as > > a group it was never really decided just > > what Linux is.... ), > [snip] > > Yes, it was decided, Bob. It's called "Debian." Sheesh. As if we have > no consensus around here. > -- > Yowzer. A consensus of one. Looks then like we have lots of them.... Consensuses? Consensi? But maybe not e pluribus consensus.. Or, we ain't got no stink'n consensus. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071202/619d421d/attachment-0001.htm From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 18:23:20 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:23:20 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> <20071202224333.GA8404@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <20071202232319.GA13582@jrichards.org> On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 06:01:29PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > On Dec 2, 2007 5:43 PM, john-thomas richards wrote: > > > On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:24:53PM -0500, Bob Kline wrote: > > [snip] > > > It's not > > > Linux in any technical sense ( I guess - as > > > a group it was never really decided just > > > what Linux is.... ), > > [snip] > > > > Yes, it was decided, Bob. It's called "Debian." Sheesh. As if we have > > no consensus around here. > > > > Yowzer. A consensus of one. Looks > then like we have lots of them.... > > Consensuses? Consensi? But maybe not > e pluribus consensus.. > > Or, we ain't got no stink'n consensus. Yes, a consensus of one...we have an army of *one* after all... -- john-thomas ------ God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world. C. S. Lewis From jtr at jrichards.org Sun Dec 2 19:40:00 2007 From: jtr at jrichards.org (john-thomas richards) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 19:40:00 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] odd GNOME app behavior for one user but not another In-Reply-To: <20071202225058.GC8404@jrichards.org> References: <20071201200018.GA27484@jrichards.org> <1196560269.8298.0.camel@donw-laptop> <47521546.3090601@ameritech.net> <20071202225058.GC8404@jrichards.org> Message-ID: <20071203004000.GA16751@jrichards.org> On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 05:50:58PM -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > On Sat, Dec 01, 2007 at 09:15:34PM -0500, Raymond McLaughlin wrote: > > Don Wood wrote: > > > On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 15:00 -0500, john-thomas richards wrote: > > >> My wife has a problem with a GNOME app (gnomesword) that I do not have > > >> on the same machine. When I am logged in the app runs just fine. When > > >> she tries to run it, she gets an error message that states, "The > > >> Application 'gnomesword' has quit unexpectedly." Nothing else. When > > >> she starts the app from a commandline, the only output from the app is > > >> "Initiating GNOME session handler" and then another prompt (after the > > >> GNOME dialog box is closed). I deleted the subdirectory containing all > > >> the gnomesword settings. This is regenerated when gnomesword is run > > >> for the "first" time (in that there are no prior settings). The app > > >> will not start. Whenever I run it, it works just fine. What really > > >> puzzles me is that this is on the same machine. Any ideas? > > > > > > any files for this app in her home dir in .gnome2 or .gnome_private? > > I was going to suggest this too. I'm mostly a KDE guy, but I have used > > some gnome apps (evolution for one) and been frustrated that some but > > not all the settings were kept in it's own dot folder. Definitely grep > > around in .gnome or .gnome2, or what ever, for any references to the > > app. It could be something as simple as an impossible window size > > (like > > with a negative number) in a recent programs description. > > > > If this yields no joy, and you want to fight with it you can create a > > new user, log in as this new user and make sure gnomesword works for > > this user. Backup this new user's config (~/.gnome*) then start > > copying > > config files from you wife's folder to the new user's. When the app > > breaks you've found your. > > > > A root shell would be handy here. Start with the most likely sounding > > filenames first, and don't forget to chown them so the new user has > > full > > access to them. > > Here is the content of the ~/.gnome2/gnomesword config file: > > djr at bird:~/.gnome2$ cat gnomesword > > [Placement] > Dock=toolbarNav\\0,1,0,0\\Menubar\\0,0,0,0 > > > I am not sure what this means. (Buehler?) > > I have not found any other files that appear related to this app. I will > keep searching, though. I copied over my .gnomesword2 directory, changed the owner to my wife's account, and all is well. The app runs as it should. This is *very* strange as it (like all apps) creates a config file/directory if there is not one when it is run. Must be a bug in gnomesword, methinks. Thanks for the suggestions. It got me on the right path! -- john-thomas ------ Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. Euripides From mikemol at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 21:36:01 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:36:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Tech magazines for sale or trade - GRLUG-Classifieds In-Reply-To: References: <000001c832fb$d5b5f130$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <20071130135649.GA15024@jrichards.org> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9755@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <8b72b8d10712020954k47a7cfccj1cec8382fc3184e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 2, 2007 1:24 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > My opinion would be to not bother > for now. At present there is more > discussion of multiple lists than > discussion itself. If/when the current > list becomes bogged down with > meaningful entries it might be time to > consider fragmenting the topics. For a community of this size, it really doesn't make sense to fragment the mailing lists. Subtopic mailing lists will just grow stale as people who were once on them stop participating. You can't really ask every new person to sign up to the other mailing lists, because you don't know who the new people are, or when they sign up. Joe newbie will write a message to the mailing list saying he's got a PC for sale, and will be told by some person to another to take it to the classifieds mailing list. Joe might subsequently post to the sublist, but, chances are, anyone who might see it there already saw it on the mailing list, and will have responded if they're interested, regardless. I really prefer settling on prefixes for the subject line. Easy to figure out once you've seen it, and easy to filter out, if you don't care for it. FOR SALE is a good prefix for sales. WANTED is a good prefix for anything someone might be looking for. I don't see how things like copyright (I remember when the argument against DRM and the DMCA was that you couldn't watch the stuff on Linux.) and bittorrent filtering (Remember when people used Linux distros as a prime example of legitimate use?) are offtopic for the list, but I suppose one could be pendantic and say anything not unique to Linux could be prefixed with "GENERAL". But I still think you'd see more general posts than posts without any prefix. -- :wq From mikemol at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 21:44:01 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 21:44:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC Message-ID: My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not absolutely required. Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. -- :wq From greg at gregfolkert.net Mon Dec 3 00:21:22 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:21:22 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Newegg barebones? http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=3&name=Barebone-Computers http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110064 ??? I dunno On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 21:44 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't > look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. > > I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of > having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB > keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" > hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not > absolutely required. > > Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/eebf1dcc/attachment.pgp From mikemol at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 01:11:18 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 01:11:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: Great idea. I'd forgotten about barebones systems. On Dec 3, 2007 12:21 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > Newegg barebones? > > http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=3&name=Barebone-Computers > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110064 > > ??? > > I dunno > > > On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 21:44 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't > > look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. > > > > I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of > > having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB > > keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" > > hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not > > absolutely required. > > > > Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From cdubois at n-vint.com Mon Dec 3 09:55:24 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:55:24 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Hey Steve, I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. How big of a truck do you have? Casey -----Original Message----- From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM Greg Folkert wrote: > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > >> Casey DuBois wrote: >> >>> Hello LUGgers, >>> >>> It's time for another meeting. >>> >>> Wednesday December 5th. >>> From: 6-8PM >>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia >>> > [snippage] > >> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday >> night in Kentwood? >> > > Where exactly in Kentwood? > > I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is > flexible *now*.... > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed am. I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as a hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been able to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even got a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont have the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team members. FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. Steve > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug _______________________________________________ grlug mailing list grlug at grlug.org http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From justin.denick at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 10:16:50 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:16:50 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> I just picked up a real gem from globalcomputers.com Intel Pentium D 3.0 socket 775 1BG DDR2 80 GB SATA Decent CPU fan Intel board Decent case and a USB Thumb Drive for under $300 On Dec 3, 2007 1:11 AM, Michael Mol wrote: > Great idea. I'd forgotten about barebones systems. > > On Dec 3, 2007 12:21 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > Newegg barebones? > > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=3&name=Barebone-Computers > > > > > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110064 > > > > ??? > > > > I dunno > > > > > > On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 21:44 -0500, Michael Mol wrote: > > > My desktop is on its way out. The CPU fan is dying, and it doesn't > > > look to be standard, so I don't know what to replace it with. > > > > > > I'm in the market for a cheap system with the minimum requirements of > > > having a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 processor or better, support for a USB > > > keyboard and mouse, at least three PCI slots, and room for two 3.5" > > > hard drives and a CDROM drive. An AGP slot would be a plus, but not > > > absolutely required. > > > > > > Will probably run Linux, or at least dual-boot. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > :wq > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/afec97d6/attachment-0001.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 10:24:54 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:24:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 10:16 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > I just picked up a real gem from globalcomputers.com > > Intel Pentium D 3.0 socket 775 Pentium D's aren't the most power friendly CPUs in the world (to say the least). The consumption difference between comparable Pentium D's and Core 2 Duos can easily total > $100 / year if you leave your computer on all the time. Spending a little more up front can actually save you money in the near-middle term. :-/ --tim From ndrier at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 10:49:18 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:49:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 10:24 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 3, 2007 10:16 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > I just picked up a real gem from globalcomputers.com > > > > Intel Pentium D 3.0 socket 775 > > Pentium D's aren't the most power friendly CPUs in the world (to say > the least). The consumption difference between comparable Pentium D's > and Core 2 Duos can easily total > $100 / year if you leave your > computer on all the time. Spending a little more up front can > actually save you money in the near-middle term. :-/ > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > They do kick out quite a pile of heat. Maybe that can translate into savings on your gas bill? ;-) I know with the thermostat set on 56 (college kids) my room stays pretty toasty with the D cranking out some VM's all night long. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/f7fc25aa/attachment.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 11:07:02 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:07:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712030807v149ee599x9c5b5e9a8bc49b5f@mail.gmail.com> On Nov 30, 2007 3:06 PM, Casey DuBois wrote: > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia Hey Casey, I'm going to attempt to make it. :) --tim From bob.kline at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 17:05:07 2007 From: bob.kline at gmail.com (Bob Kline) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:05:07 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 3, 2007 10:49 AM, Nathan wrote: > > > > > They do kick out quite a pile of heat. Maybe that can translate into > savings on your gas bill? ;-) > > I know with the thermostat set on 56 (college kids) my room stays pretty > toasty with the D cranking out some VM's all night long. > > Demonstrating category creep here, let me just comment that resistive heating is an expensive way to heat your room And the flip side is A/C, which simply has to remove the heat. Overall this is a bad strategy - better to get the dual core someone else suggested.... You might get a few points extra in some global warming class that way, or maybe even an award for being so environmentally friendly. You just keep on winning.. -Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/a7ff26f8/attachment.htm From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 17:29:19 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:29:19 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? Message-ID: I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring dessert to the meeting. I'm good at cooking, therefore, is their any requests? I have ingredients for Pineapple upside down cake already in my kitchen. I can make other stuff if someone asks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/a57ae7fc/attachment-0001.htm From drehfeldtusa at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:33:48 2007 From: drehfeldtusa at gmail.com (Douglas Rehfeldt) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 18:33:48 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> "I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring dessert to the meeting." Jorge, you get some bonus points here. My contribution to dessert for any office function is normally something from the local vending machine. However, you've inspired me to also offer a contribution of something sweet. It may, or may not, come from a local large grocery chain, but it will "look" like I made it after putting it on my own plate! :-) So, I vote dessert a meal course for the LUG meeting. Anyone second the motion? From slestak989 at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:49:06 2007 From: slestak989 at gmail.com (Steve Romanow) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:49:06 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> Casey DuBois wrote: > Hey Steve, > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > How big of a truck do you have? > Casey > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > To: grlug at grlug.org > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > Greg Folkert wrote: > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: >> >> >>> Casey DuBois wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello LUGgers, >>>> >>>> It's time for another meeting. >>>> >>>> Wednesday December 5th. >>>> From: 6-8PM >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia >>>> >>>> >> [snippage] >> >> >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday >>> night in Kentwood? >>> >>> >> Where exactly in Kentwood? >> >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. >> >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is >> flexible *now*.... >> >> > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed am. > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as a > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been able > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even got > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont have > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team > members. > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > Steve > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> grlug mailing list >> grlug at grlug.org >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug >> > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming as well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. I will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on the list :) Steve From geektoyz at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 19:49:59 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:49:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Hey Godwin, Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? Casey -----Original Message----- From: Casey DuBois [mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM Hello LUGgers, It's time for another meeting. Wednesday December 5th. From: 6-8PM Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. Please contact me with any questions or concerns. See you ALL next week. P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone that wants to sift thru it. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." - Linus Torvalds On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > Hey Steve, > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > How big of a truck do you have? > > Casey > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > >>>> > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > >>>> > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > >>>> From: 6-8PM > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > >>>> > >>>> > >> [snippage] > >> > >> > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday > >>> night in Kentwood? > >>> > >>> > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > >> > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > >> > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is > >> flexible *now*.... > >> > >> > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed am. > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as a > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been able > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even got > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont have > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team > > members. > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > > > Steve > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> grlug mailing list > >> grlug at grlug.org > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming as > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. I > will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on > the list :) > > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From geektoyz at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 19:53:08 2007 From: geektoyz at gmail.com (Godwin) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:53:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> Message-ID: <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 6:33 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote: > "I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring dessert > to the meeting." > > Jorge, you get some bonus points here. My contribution to dessert for any > office function is normally something from the local vending machine. > However, you've inspired me to also offer a contribution of something sweet. > It may, or may not, come from a local large grocery chain, but it will > "look" like I made it after putting it on my own plate! :-) So, I vote > dessert a meal course for the LUG meeting. Anyone second the motion? > Haaa! I second, third, fourth, fifth and even sixth that motion... ;-) G- > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- Ubber::Geek http://grlug.org/ From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 20:12:22 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 20:12:22 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: no objections on pineapple upside down cake? On Dec 3, 2007 7:53 PM, Godwin wrote: > On Dec 3, 2007 6:33 PM, Douglas Rehfeldt wrote: > > "I feel highly motivated-and I have a lot of free time now-to bring > dessert > > to the meeting." > > > > Jorge, you get some bonus points here. My contribution to dessert for > any > > office function is normally something from the local vending machine. > > However, you've inspired me to also offer a contribution of something > sweet. > > It may, or may not, come from a local large grocery chain, but it will > > "look" like I made it after putting it on my own plate! :-) So, I vote > > dessert a meal course for the LUG meeting. Anyone second the motion? > > > > > > Haaa! I second, third, fourth, fifth and even sixth that motion... ;-) > > G- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071203/7e3e9e22/attachment.htm From ndrier at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 08:21:18 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:21:18 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 8:12 PM, Jorge La wrote: > no objections on pineapple upside down cake? > > > None at all! Ill compile all the beer I have in the fridge and bring that along as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/d58ce0ed/attachment.htm From ndrier at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 08:50:56 2007 From: ndrier at gmail.com (Nathan) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 08:50:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] WANTED: PC In-Reply-To: References: <1196659282.18954.22.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712030716h299dda3ftc187bf7f3abb987d@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712030724x31991a2en403e8d54d056dcbd@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712030749h376fa391xea297525a4d77817@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f08d14b0712040550m610b14a4m2479087b6450544a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 3, 2007 5:05 PM, Bob Kline wrote: > > Demonstrating category creep here, > let me just comment that resistive heating > is an expensive way to heat your room > > And the flip side is A/C, which simply has > to remove the heat. Overall this is a bad > strategy - better to get the dual core someone > else suggested.... > > You might get a few points extra in some > global warming class that way, or maybe > even an award for being so environmentally > friendly. You just keep on winning.. > > -Bob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > Eh, it was just a bad joke about using it as a heater.... I did some looking at power consumption - and its pretty crazy where the Pentium D's really sit..... Pentium D 940 3.2 GHZ 130 Watts P4 Mobile 2.0GHZ 21 Watts Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHZ 65 Watts Core 2 Quad 3.0GHZ 130 Watts AMD X2 5400+ 89 Watts Turion X2 2.0 GHZ 35 Watts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPU_power_dissipation Dont video cards these days draw upwards of a couple hundred watts by themselves? Nate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/2d4fdafc/attachment-0001.htm From cdubois at n-vint.com Tue Dec 4 09:46:56 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:46:56 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF996A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Pineapple Upside Down Cake is my Favorite..... Casey ________________________________ From: Nathan [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:21 AM To: grlug at grlug.org Subject: Re: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? On Dec 3, 2007 8:12 PM, Jorge La > wrote: no objections on pineapple upside down cake? None at all! Ill compile all the beer I have in the fridge and bring that along as well. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/a58aa7b5/attachment.htm From matt at michielsen.us Tue Dec 4 10:21:09 2007 From: matt at michielsen.us (Matt Michielsen) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 10:21:09 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll be there. Anyone from Holland/Zeeland want to carpool? -mm On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > Hey Godwin, > Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? > Casey > > -----Original Message----- > From: Casey DuBois [mailto:cdubois at n-vint.com] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM > To: grlug at grlug.org > Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can > make sure to have enough. > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, > Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so > Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or > planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > See you ALL next week. > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone > that wants to sift thru it. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > - Linus Torvalds > > On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow wrote: > > > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > > Hey Steve, > > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > > How big of a truck do you have? > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from > 6-8PM > > > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > > >>>> > > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > > >>>> > > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > > >>>> From: 6-8PM > > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >> [snippage] > > >> > > >> > > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me Tuesday > > >>> night in Kentwood? > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > > >> > > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > >> > > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule is > > >> flexible *now*.... > > >> > > >> > > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house at > > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > > > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed > am. > > > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I have > > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of as > a > > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been > able > > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even > got > > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > > > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont > have > > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell based > > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my team > > > members. > > > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for the > > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> grlug mailing list > > >> grlug at grlug.org > > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming as > > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another > > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice > > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my > > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to > > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. > > > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. I > > will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on > > the list :) > > > > > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/96771b24/attachment-0001.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 14:50:10 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:50:10 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions Message-ID: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> I was chugging along installing some gentoo on a new PC when I found that the darn thing wouldn't boot. I checked my kernel opts and everything was hunk-dory, BIOS was fine, everything looked great. So I attached a PATA drive, copied my boot junk to it. Configured and re-ran lilo to accommodate, and it booted fine... I was gonna just leave it that way, but pride got the best of me. I ain't gonna be stumped by no silicon. What prevented me then? The Intel BIOS won't boot from a partition that is not marked as active. I blame the BIOS, because I have a dozen more gentoo boxes that boot just fine without me having to mark one partition as active. I thought the idea of a active partition was related to Windows. No? FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. The BIOS version is PE94510M.86A.0050.2007.0710.1559. So if anybody gets a new Intel Desktop MB, keep it in mind that you'll have to mark your boot partition as active $ fdisk -> a /dev/device_name -> w I installed the MBR onto /dev/sda1, because fdisk makes you select a partition to make active. Purist would argue that the MBR should only be installed onto /dev/sda, but I think that has to do with sector size and cylinder number issue that I feel are no longer pertinent today. -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/b2d0cb18/attachment.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 14:55:16 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 14:55:16 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? In-Reply-To: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF996A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> References: <000301c83604$f53528d0$02c8a8c0@bigburner> <8b72b8d10712031653i33cf7235l1fac80d17ad4b1c3@mail.gmail.com> <7f08d14b0712040521q7c29fc62rb703d24ad156ca2f@mail.gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF996A@NVMBX01.nvint.local> Message-ID: <81e08d920712041155k673be751yb32a789074482fdd@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 9:46 AM, Casey DuBois wrote: > Pineapple Upside Down Cake is my Favorite?.. > > Casey > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Nathan [mailto:ndrier at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:21 AM > *To:* grlug at grlug.org > *Subject:* Re: [GRLUG] Dessert for Wednesday's meeting? > > > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 8:12 PM, Jorge La wrote: > > no objections on pineapple upside down cake? > > > > > None at all! Ill compile all the beer I have in the fridge and bring that > along as well. > > > > Compile the beer? Now there's something that will run on any OS, though I would steer clear of the late night emails to people you haven't spoken to in more than a week. > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/beee08e2/attachment.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 15:00:29 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:00:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 2:50 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. Obviously, opinions differ. > I installed the MBR onto /dev/sda1, because fdisk makes you select a > partition to make active. Purist would argue that the MBR should only be > installed onto /dev/sda, but I think that has to do with sector size and > cylinder number issue that I feel are no longer pertinent today. I'll assume by 'MBR' you mean the bootloader - LILO in this case. The MBR, being the a region of the disk (the first 512 bytes), can't be 'installed' onto one of the disk's partitions. As far as installing the bootloader in a partition, it's perfectly acceptable behavior - especially in certain multi-boot configurations. Sounds like, if you'd installed the bootloader into the MBR, instead of a partition, your BIOS may not have had an issue booting the drive (my brand-new Intel board at home certainly doesn't). --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 15:31:34 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:31:34 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 3:00 PM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > > On Dec 4, 2007 2:50 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > > Obviously, opinions differ. > > > > I installed the MBR onto /dev/sda1, because fdisk makes you select a > > partition to make active. Purist would argue that the MBR should only be > > installed onto /dev/sda, but I think that has to do with sector size and > > cylinder number issue that I feel are no longer pertinent today. > > I'll assume by 'MBR' you mean the bootloader - LILO in this case. The > MBR, being the a region of the disk (the first 512 bytes), can't be > 'installed' onto one of the disk's partitions. As far as installing > the bootloader in a partition, it's perfectly acceptable behavior - > especially in certain multi-boot configurations. Sounds like, if > you'd installed the bootloader into the MBR, instead of a partition, > your BIOS may not have had an issue booting the drive (my brand-new > Intel board at home certainly doesn't). If that is what is sounded like why would I have bothered to debug to an issue that never even existed, and if that were the case, I would not have posted the message. Though your comment had inspired me. Seems my solution is invalid as it was not needed for your new Intel Board at home. And I hate fragile solutions. Looking deeper into the matter When booting (i.e., starting) a computer, the master boot record (MBR) looks at the partition table and selects the primary partition that is marked active in that table. The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). http://www.linfo.org/active_partition.html Seems that unlike other BIOS that I have used in the past, this particular one, unlike the Tim's, required that at least one partition be marked as active. I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. I assume this would work with grub as well if not, your just going to have to wait. They have scrapped the project altogether, GRUB 2 will be more promising. > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From weeneedhelp at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 17:28:08 2007 From: weeneedhelp at gmail.com (Jorge La) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:28:08 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh, I'm also gonna bring this laptop that I cant get Ubuntu to work on to the meeting. Hope someone can solve my problem. On Dec 4, 2007 10:21 AM, Matt Michielsen wrote: > I'll be there. Anyone from Holland/Zeeland want to carpool? > > -mm > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > > > Hey Godwin, > > Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? > > Casey > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Casey DuBois [mailto: cdubois at n-vint.com] > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > > Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > > > > > Hello LUGgers, > > > > It's time for another meeting. > > > > Wednesday December 5th. > > From: 6-8PM > > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > > > > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can > > make sure to have enough. > > > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide Linux" > > > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, > > Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so > > Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > > We are also interested in hearing how other companies are using or > > planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > > > See you ALL next week. > > > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE Hardware for anyone > > that wants to sift thru it. > > > > Sincerely, > > Casey M. DuBois > > N-VINT, Inc. > > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 > > 616-656-5500 Office > > 866-337-2686 Direct > > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > > cdubois at n-vint.com > > > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy operating systems." > > - Linus Torvalds > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow < slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > > > Hey Steve, > > > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > > > How big of a truck do you have? > > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th > > from 6-8PM > > > > > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > > > >>>> From: 6-8PM > > > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >> [snippage] > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a truck with me > > Tuesday > > > >>> night in Kentwood? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > > > >> > > > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > > >> > > > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 ET). But my schedule > > is > > > >> flexible *now*.... > > > >> > > > >> > > > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. I get the house > > at > > > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until the sun drops to > > > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? I have 2 movers > > > > coming, but really want to get this done since the truck is due Wed > > am. > > > > > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on enterpise linux. I > > have > > > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux professionally instead of > > as a > > > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, even as a msft > > > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature sets and I;ve been > > able > > > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, imagemagick, gimp, even > > got > > > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for "special projects". > > > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've always been able to > > > > > > produce results. In our business (wholesale distribution) we dont > > have > > > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been trying to sell > > based > > > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit in "building on the > > > > > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux guy" if it means my > > > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving problems for my > > team > > > > members. > > > > > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I can even pay for > > the > > > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house so late. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> grlug mailing list > > > >> grlug at grlug.org > > > >> http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > grlug mailing list > > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 professional movers coming > > as > > > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob spring for another > > > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, they have a nice > > > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was able to get my > > > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with them giving it to > > > > > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you EVER need a favor. > > > > > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and you cannot make it. > > I > > > will give you property address as well. Not sure I want my address on > > > > > the list :) > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ubber::Geek > > http://grlug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071204/6bc38722/attachment-0001.htm From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 19:00:54 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:00:54 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up > in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also > contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS > (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). Sorry. The MBR isn't a program at all. It's literally the region of a partitioned hard disk encompassing the first 512 bytes of that disk, and may contain any number of useful things (including programs) but a program it is not. In other words, the MBR - being a very specific region of a disk - may contain the partition table for that disk, a bootloader (or other useful program - usually executed by the BIOS), a unique disk ID, etc. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record > I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the > [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. So after all that, I was right. --tim From mikemol at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 19:11:02 2007 From: mikemol at gmail.com (Michael Mol) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:11:02 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 4, 2007 7:00 PM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > > The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up > > in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also > > contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS > > (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). > > Sorry. The MBR isn't a program at all. It's literally the region of > a partitioned hard disk encompassing the first 512 bytes of that disk, > and may contain any number of useful things (including programs) but a > program it is not. In other words, the MBR - being a very specific > region of a disk - may contain the partition table for that disk, a > bootloader (or other useful program - usually executed by the BIOS), a > unique disk ID, etc. See: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record Sorry to be pedantic, but that bootloader is, itself, x86 machine code; A small program. Boot-sector viruses used to be impressive in that they managed to replace the MBR with themselves while still accomplishing what the MBR was supposed to do. (At least, on DOS systems. I imagine if a boot sector virus replaced your LILO MBR, you'd be SOL.) > > > I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the > > [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. > > So after all that, I was right. > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- :wq From dond at standalelumber.com Tue Dec 4 19:17:51 2007 From: dond at standalelumber.com (Don Wood) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:17:51 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196813871.9223.2.camel@donw-laptop> Great idea! I have one myself! On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 17:28 -0500, Jorge La wrote: > Oh, I'm also gonna bring this laptop that I cant get Ubuntu to work on > to the meeting. Hope someone can solve my problem. > > > > On Dec 4, 2007 10:21 AM, Matt Michielsen wrote: > > > I'll be there. Anyone from Holland/Zeeland want to carpool? > > -mm > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > > > Hey Godwin, > Could you please post this meeting date and time on > the grlug.org site? > Casey > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Casey DuBois [mailto: cdubois at n-vint.com] > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:07 PM > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday > the 5th from 6-8PM > > Hello LUGgers, > > It's time for another meeting. > > Wednesday December 5th. > From: 6-8PM > Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, > Caledonia > > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 > > I am sponsoring food so please RSVP to > cdubois at n-vint.com so I can > make sure to have enough. > > The Agenda for this meeting will be "Enterprise wide > Linux" > > Don Wood has agreed to discuss how Standale lumber > uses Linux (ltsp, > Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to > migrate 40 or so > Windows thin client users by the end of 2008. > We are also interested in hearing how other companies > are using or > planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. > > Please contact me with any questions or concerns. > > See you ALL next week. > > P.S. I'll bring in another skid or two of FREE > Hardware for anyone > that wants to sift thru it. > > Sincerely, > Casey M. DuBois > N-VINT, Inc. > 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI > 49316 > 616-656-5500 Office > 866-337-2686 Direct > AOL IM: CaseyNVINT > cdubois at n-vint.com > > "Microsoft isn't evil, they just make really crappy > operating systems." > - Linus Torvalds > > > > On Dec 3, 2007 6:49 PM, Steve Romanow < > slestak989 at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Casey DuBois wrote: > > > Hey Steve, > > > I'll be there Tuesday @ 5PM. > > > How big of a truck do you have? > > > Casey > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Steve Romanow [mailto:slestak989 at gmail.com] > > > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:26 PM > > > To: grlug at grlug.org > > > Subject: Re: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - > Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM > > > > > > Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > >> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 18:10 -0500, Steve Romanow > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>> Casey DuBois wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Hello LUGgers, > > >>>> > > >>>> It's time for another meeting. > > >>>> > > >>>> Wednesday December 5th. > > >>>> From: 6-8PM > > >>>> Location: 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive > SE, Caledonia > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >> [snippage] > > >> > > >> > > >>> I will try to make it. Anyone want to unload a > truck with me Tuesday > > >>> night in Kentwood? > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Where exactly in Kentwood? > > >> > > >> I'm right around 50th and Buchanan. > > >> > > >> Depends on the timing, as I work 8-5 MT (10-7 > ET). But my schedule is > > >> flexible *now*.... > > >> > > >> > > > At 44th & Kalamazoo, Tradewinds Dr, off Stauffer. > I get the house at > > > 5pm, stinks that I have to kill time all day until > the sun drops to > > > unload at dusk. When does it get dark now in GR? > I have 2 movers > > > coming, but really want to get this done since the > truck is due Wed am. > > > > > > I cant wait to hear what the presentation on > enterpise linux. I have > > > hoped and prayed for getting to use linux > professionally instead of as a > > > hobby. My current boss has been pretty receptive, > even as a msft > > > fanboy, he sees the value when comparing feature > sets and I;ve been able > > > to implement projects with nomachine, rhel, > imagemagick, gimp, even got > > > a pretty hot Ubuntu machine for a second box for > "special projects". > > > Being patient and proselytizing when I can, I've > always been able to > > > produce results. In our business (wholesale > distribution) we dont have > > > the margins for citrix, E12, SAP, etc. I've been > trying to sell based > > > on liberal pro-consumer licensing and the profit > in "building on the > > > shoulders of giants". I'll be that "crazy linux > guy" if it means my > > > company stays competitive and I can keep solving > problems for my team > > > members. > > > > > > FOr the truck thing, I will repay the favor or I > can even pay for the > > > help. Im just in kindof a jam gettign the house > so late. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> grlug mailing list > > >> grlug at grlug.org > > >> > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > > > grlug mailing list > > > grlug at grlug.org > > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > Its a 26', biggest Penske has. I have 2-3 > professional movers coming as > > well, but I only have them for 2 hours. Will prob > spring for another > > 1-2 hours for them. Big shout out for emove.com, > they have a nice > > service if anyone needs that kind of work. If I was > able to get my > > house before dusk, I would have no worries, but with > them giving it to > > me at 5pm... I REALLY appreciate it Casey, if you > EVER need a favor. > > > > Give me a call at 443-413-1006 if sth happens and > you cannot make it. I > > will give you property address as well. Not sure I > want my address on > > the list :) > > > > > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > > grlug mailing list > > grlug at grlug.org > > > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > > -- > > Ubber::Geek > http://grlug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug From timschmidt at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 19:40:45 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:40:45 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712041640i425864fem706fbb69fbdb61e1@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 7:11 PM, Michael Mol wrote: > Sorry to be pedantic, but that bootloader is, itself, x86 machine > code; A small program. Correct. The bootloader is software which resides in the MBR. However the two terms are nowhere near interchangable. This is exactly the point I'm trying to impress. --tim From billcreswell at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 06:46:01 2007 From: billcreswell at gmail.com (Bill Creswell) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 06:46:01 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] LUG Meeting for December - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM In-Reply-To: <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> References: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9817@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <47509854.3040701@gmail.com> <1196464622.12977.131.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <4750C622.1060207@gmail.com> <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9860@NVMBX01.nvint.local> <475495F2.6060702@gmail.com> <8b72b8d10712031649q775373f8r749b396ed2eb937c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52b088230712050346q4c82ef3etd79f732000482758@mail.gmail.com> I added this meeting to the wiki On Dec 3, 2007 7:49 PM, Godwin wrote: > Hey Godwin, > Could you please post this meeting date and time on the grlug.org site? > Casey > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/2d951c9f/attachment.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 08:06:57 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:06:57 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 4, 2007 7:00 PM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM, Justin Denick wrote: > > The MBR is a small program that is executed when a computer starts up > > in order to find the operating system and load it into memory. It also > > contains the partition table and other information needed by the BIOS > > (basic input output system) to access the hard disk drive (HDD). > > Sorry. The MBR isn't a program at all. It's literally the region of > a partitioned hard disk encompassing the first 512 bytes of that disk, > and may contain any number of useful things (including programs) but a > program it is not. In other words, the MBR - being a very specific > region of a disk - may contain the partition table for that disk, a > bootloader (or other useful program - usually executed by the BIOS), a > unique disk ID, etc. See: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_boot_record > > > I have now installed LILO onto the MBR, rather than onto the > > [1]Partition and the machine boots fine. > > So after all that, I was right. No. You were right about the MBR not being a program, a tangent that was applied only by your fortitude to correct my mistake of describing the solution to what the actual problem was. In conclusion, we all now know that the MBR is the physical area in a container, disk, volume, drive... etc. That's wonderful. However, it is important that we note one thing: The problem booting was not related to my description of the MBR, but rather that this particular board requires that there exist an active partition on the disk you are attemting to boot an OS from. > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 09:27:39 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:27:39 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 8:06 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > However, it is important that we note one thing: The problem booting was not > related to my description of the MBR, but rather that this particular board > requires that there exist an active partition on the disk you are attemting to > boot an OS from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding based on what you've written so far, is that the board requires either an active partiton (if, as you've done, the bootloader is installed in said partition), or for the bootloader to be installed in the MBR. Either situation results in a bootable system. The only combination that doesn't is a bootloader installed in a location other than the MBR, with no active partitions. This would match expected behavior on an x86 - some may be more forgiving than this, but they're not required to be. --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 09:44:47 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 09:44:47 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 9:27 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 8:06 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > However, it is important that we note one thing: The problem booting was not > > related to my description of the MBR, but rather that this particular board > > requires that there exist an active partition on the disk you are attemting to > > boot an OS from. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding based on what you've > written so far, is that the board requires either an active partiton > (if, as you've done, the bootloader is installed in said partition), > or for the bootloader to be installed in the MBR. Either situation > results in a bootable system. The only combination that doesn't is a > bootloader installed in a location other than the MBR, with no active > partitions. This would match expected behavior on an x86 - some may > be more forgiving than this, but they're not required to be. > No, the machine will not boot, regardless of where the bootloader is installed, if there isn't an active partition. Thus, far this is the only board I have seen exhibit this behavior. And it isn't Intel specific, as my older Intel board will boot w/o an active partition. > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:17:29 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:17:29 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 9:44 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > No, the machine will not boot, regardless of where the bootloader is > installed, if > there isn't an active partition. Thus, far this is the only board I > have seen exhibit > this behavior. And it isn't Intel specific, as my older Intel board > will boot w/o an > active partition. Hrmm... Shouldn't be the board's problem at that point. If the bootloader (in this case, LILO's first stage loader) is installed in the MBR, it's executed first thing after POST, and control of the system is then it it's hands alone. The BIOS no longer has an active role in the boot process past this point. So either your version of LILO requires an active partition, is misconfigured, improperly installed, or has a bug. see: http://axiom.anu.edu.au/~okeefe/p2b/power2bash/power2bash.html --tim From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Dec 5 10:26:31 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:26:31 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: [snip] > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. [snip] So, exactly why do you think this? I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They all SUCK. Care to enlighten me? FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every time you install a new kernel. Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote machines, compared to LILO. Of all the machines I've had not reboot properly, *recently*, all have been LILO. Same machines, once GRUB was installed and setup properly (being trivial to do), have not had a a single problem rebooting since. -- Greg Folkert -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/85c99b09/attachment.pgp From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:35:14 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:35:14 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:17 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 9:44 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > No, the machine will not boot, regardless of where the bootloader is > > installed, if > > there isn't an active partition. Thus, far this is the only board I > > have seen exhibit > > this behavior. And it isn't Intel specific, as my older Intel board > > will boot w/o an > > active partition. > > Hrmm... Shouldn't be the board's problem at that point. If the > bootloader (in this case, LILO's first stage loader) is installed in > the MBR, it's executed first thing after POST, and control of the > system is then it it's hands alone. The BIOS no longer has an active > role in the boot process past this point. So either your version of > LILO requires an active partition, is misconfigured, improperly > installed, or has a bug. > > see: http://axiom.anu.edu.au/~okeefe/p2b/power2bash/power2bash.html Thanks Tim, I thought the same thing too. But LILO (appears) to have not been called. LILO has a sort of debugger, that lets you know how far it got, if it was called at all. Since I see the "No Operating System Found / Invalid System Disk " sort of message, I concluded that the bootloader was never executed. Upon even further investigation I have found that LILO, requires an active partition. I feel pretty dumb now, and I will no longer taunt GRUB, though I am confused as to why the requisite does not follow all of my machines. Here's the link if you wish to read it. http://en.opensuse.org/SDB%3ALILO_fails%3A_Error_messages_and_their_interpretation > > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From timschmidt at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:44:52 2007 From: timschmidt at gmail.com (Tim Schmidt) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:44:52 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c97fe9d0712050744y6d80137crb164a6e7a6f79c68@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:35 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > Thanks Tim, I thought the same thing too. But LILO (appears) to have > not been called. LILO has a sort of > debugger, that lets you know how far it got, if it was called at all. > Since I see the "No Operating System > Found / Invalid System Disk " sort of message, I concluded that the > bootloader was never executed. Gotcha... yeah. That certainly means you weren't getting far past POST :) > Upon even further investigation I have found that LILO, requires an > active partition. > I feel pretty dumb now, and I will no longer taunt GRUB, though I am > confused as to why the requisite does not follow > all of my machines. Right... well, each machine is probably running slightly different versions. Could be that some distributors patched theirs, or just certain versions, or whatever. No way to know without a friendly changelog or bug tracker entry, mailing list message, or looking at the code itself. --tim From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:50:55 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:50:55 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:26 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > [snip] > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > [snip] > > So, exactly why do you think this? > > I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, > MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 > and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They > all SUCK. > > Care to enlighten me? LILO has been my bootloader since I began using linux. I am a creature of habit. I used GRUB once, it failed me, so I have not gone back. Since I don't dual boot anything, and I only keep one kernel, booting is just a means to an end. I suppose if I had began using GRUB, and LILO had failed me, I would think differently. > > FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel > is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every > time you install a new kernel. Not a big deal, since running make install after compiling your kernel now prompts you. I'm not sure when that started, I think it happened after 2.6.10 or 2.6.12. > > Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but > it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting > kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. > > Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote > machines, compared to LILO. A piece of software that forgives operator error, should not be deemed more reliable than one that doesn't. > > Of all the machines I've had not reboot properly, *recently*, all have > been LILO. Was it LILO's fault? > > Same machines, once GRUB was installed and setup properly (being trivial > to do), have not had a a single problem rebooting since. > -- > Greg Folkert > > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 10:56:59 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 10:56:59 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <2c97fe9d0712050744y6d80137crb164a6e7a6f79c68@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041200i2172bf12p7c73ff0fa8e7de6d@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712041231xcd1b446uc741bfdbd298ce3a@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712041600y5411ccc3i27d90e964b477975@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050506h611fb307g67161502cdf80873@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050627u46983801r505880e913ac9aba@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050644t4b850f07mced894debc5765b9@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050717h198fa1e1y4bbb448459405cf2@mail.gmail.com> <81e08d920712050735q20d188c1p941d63623cd7966b@mail.gmail.com> <2c97fe9d0712050744y6d80137crb164a6e7a6f79c68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050756s2e5925cdg91a007ce163c6ea7@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 10:44 AM, Tim Schmidt wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 10:35 AM, Justin Denick wrote: > > Thanks Tim, I thought the same thing too. But LILO (appears) to have > > not been called. LILO has a sort of > > debugger, that lets you know how far it got, if it was called at all. > > Since I see the "No Operating System > > Found / Invalid System Disk " sort of message, I concluded that the > > bootloader was never executed. > > Gotcha... yeah. That certainly means you weren't getting far past POST :) > > > Upon even further investigation I have found that LILO, requires an > > active partition. > > I feel pretty dumb now, and I will no longer taunt GRUB, though I am > > confused as to why the requisite does not follow > > all of my machines. > > Right... well, each machine is probably running slightly different > versions. Could be that some distributors patched theirs, or just > certain versions, or whatever. No way to know without a friendly > changelog or bug tracker entry, mailing list message, or looking at > the code itself. > LILO versions have no affect. 22.8 and 22.7.3 (my most common) have the same effect. FWIW, the version that failed me is 22.7.3, I have the same version on the older intel board w/o active partitions and it boot fine. I do believe that the Board/BIOS is the underlying cause. But if you follow the LILO instructions, making the partition active (as I did NOT) than you'll have no worries. > > --tim > _______________________________________________ > grlug mailing list > grlug at grlug.org > http://shinobu.grlug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/grlug > -- In vino veritas. [In wine there is truth.] -- Pliny From greg at gregfolkert.net Wed Dec 5 11:50:58 2007 From: greg at gregfolkert.net (Greg Folkert) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 11:50:58 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1196873458.1833.166.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 10:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > On Dec 5, 2007 10:26 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > > [snip] > > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > > [snip] > > > > So, exactly why do you think this? > > > > I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, > > MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 > > and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They > > all SUCK. > > > > Care to enlighten me? > > LILO has been my bootloader since I began using linux. I am a creature of habit. > I used GRUB once, it failed me, so I have not gone back. > Since I don't dual boot anything, and I only keep one kernel, booting > is just a means > to an end. I suppose if I had began using GRUB, and LILO had failed > me, I would think > differently. I started with something else, I can't remember what it was called. Perhaps it was LILO, but it wasn't called that when SLS Linux first came out. > > FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel > > is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every > > time you install a new kernel. > Not a big deal, since running make install after compiling your kernel > now prompts you. > I'm not sure when that started, I think it happened after 2.6.10 or 2.6.12. Hmmm, didn't know that. Until recently (few years) LILO couldn't go past the 1GB boundary on disk *RELIABLY*. Sure it has been able to for a long time, but you had to ensure you really has the *right* version of LILO. > > Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but > > it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting > > kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. > > > > Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote > > machines, compared to LILO. > > A piece of software that forgives operator error, should not be deemed more > reliable than one that doesn't. Nope, we are talking about NOT operator error, but DISTRO PROVIDER ERROR. Specifically RedHat Enterprise Linux v3 update 9 and v4 update 5. These machines had been upgraded since forever. Reboots are always fraught with problems when using LILO. Even when properly setup, there is a good chance that LILO will not properly detect the right setup. We are talking machines with 30+ disks and 2-5 drive controllers, about 8 kernels (smp and up and revisions if problems occur with the new kernel) installed at any one time. One feature GRUB has is command line booting, in other words, even *IF* someone blows away the menu.lst, you can still boot the machine FROM the GRUB prompt, assuming you know how to do this. LILO failure == booting a recovery disk and hopefully having the recovery disk evaluate the numerous disk in the same order so that LILO writes the (apparent) MBR properly. > > Of all the machines I've had not reboot properly, *recently*, all have > > been LILO. > > Was it LILO's fault? Actually it was. 30+ disks, some as mirrors of others (especially the booting partition) causes LILO to get confused occasionally. It works 99% of the time, but fails 1%. It fails at the least opportune time, as has been my luck. I still have about 70% of legacy machines using LILO, so don't think I am "fringe" case. I have 2 new machines using LILO, as we have a requirement to use XFS only on any filesystems... its a "third party" app that the vendor has "strict requirements"... and they have installed new kernels and lotsa other stuff rebooted that machine... and have had to pay to have someone "work" on the machine to get it to boot. And yes, its been operator error in this case. FYI on that, they recently went from supporting ONLY Solaris 9 on SPARC hardware, to RHEL v4 update 3 setup this way. These machines are now, 2 quad core processors, blahblahblah machine with 3.5GB of memory (running ia32 kernels). I am tempted to migrate them to VMs, as the machines *NEVER* see any load average above 0.2. I'll bet I could do it without them even knowing. Until its is too late for them. FWIW, GRUB never needs to be re-run. You just change the config file. If you make a mistake in that... you have the "edit" function available to fix the problem (at boot) OR you can go into command line and manually load the kernel yourself. So, given that we are all prone to mistakes in any case, which one would you use, based on using Linux for your CORE business model and application serving? > > Same machines, once GRUB was installed and setup properly (being trivial > > to do), have not had a a single problem rebooting since. -- Greg Folkert -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/aada4199/attachment.pgp From cdubois at n-vint.com Wed Dec 5 11:59:17 2007 From: cdubois at n-vint.com (Casey DuBois) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 11:59:17 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] **Reminder** GRLUG Meeting TONIGHT - Wednesday the 5th from 6-8PM Message-ID: <9F172CF1A5341F4F989A2A1414D59669D6BF9AC7@NVMBX01.nvint.local> **REMINDER** GRLUG (Grand Rapids Linux Users Group) December Meeting Food will be provided so please RSVP to cdubois at n-vint.com so I can make sure to have enough. Our Agenda will be "Enterprise Wide Linux" Don Wood will be discussing how Standale lumber uses Linux (ltsp, Debian, SugarCRM and Ubuntu) and their plans to migrate 40 or so Windows thin client users by the end of 2008, we are also interested in discussing how other local companies are using or planning to use Linux Enterprise wide. Date and Time: TONIGHT - Wednesday December 5th 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM (food will be ready @ 6:00) Location: N-Vint, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Drive SE, Caledonia http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3240+Hanna+Lake+Industrial+Park+Drive+SE,+Caledonia,+MI&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=24.455808,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=42.847275,-85.580063&spn=0.085205,0.159645&z=13&iwloc=addr&om=1 links to local LUG's Grand Rapids Linux Users Group www.grlug.org West Michigan Linux Users Group www.wmlug.org P.S. I have 3 skids of FREE hardware for anyone that would like to sift thru it. Please contact me with any questions or concerns. Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 3240 Hanna Lake Industrial Park Dr. SE, Caledonia, MI 49316 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas John Watson - IBM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://shinobu.grlug.org/pipermail/grlug/attachments/20071205/d0b2faa8/attachment-0001.htm From justin.denick at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 12:19:53 2007 From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 12:19:53 -0500 Subject: [GRLUG] Active Partitions In-Reply-To: <1196873458.1833.166.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> References: <81e08d920712041150q1837d861mf722f305859859af@mail.gmail.com> <1196868391.1833.76.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> <81e08d920712050750g2d04aef6h5ca7f18fb6066e9d@mail.gmail.com> <1196873458.1833.166.camel@princess.gregfolkert.net> Message-ID: <81e08d920712050919y751348d9ve924bfd67b3e046f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 5, 2007 11:50 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 10:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > > On Dec 5, 2007 10:26 AM, Greg Folkert wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 14:50 -0500, Justin Denick wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > FWIW, I did not try GRUB. Grub is garbage. > > > [snip] > > > > > > So, exactly why do you think this? > > > > > > I have a similar opinion of all boot loaders, not just GRUB, but LILO, > > > MILO, SILO and a boot loader from Microsoft, IBM's boot loaders for OS2 > > > and such. This along with other boot managers that are out there. They > > > all SUCK. > > > > > > Care to enlighten me? > > > > LILO has been my bootloader since I began using linux. I am a creature of habit. > > I used GRUB once, it failed me, so I have not gone back. > > Since I don't dual boot anything, and I only keep one kernel, booting > > is just a means > > to an end. I suppose if I had began using GRUB, and LILO had failed > > me, I would think > > differently. > > I started with something else, I can't remember what it was called. > > Perhaps it was LILO, but it wasn't called that when SLS Linux first came > out. > > > > FWIW, LILO needs to know WHERE EXACTLY (C,H,S) the booting image/kernel > > > is in order to load it. *THAT* is why you have to "re-run" LILO every > > > time you install a new kernel. > > Not a big deal, since running make install after compiling your kernel > > now prompts you. > > I'm not sure when that started, I think it happened after 2.6.10 or 2.6.12. > > Hmmm, didn't know that. > > Until recently (few years) LILO couldn't go past the 1GB boundary on > disk *RELIABLY*. Sure it has been able to for a long time, but you had > to ensure you really has the *right* version of LILO. > > > > Also, GRUB doesn't need to know exactly where the booting image is, but > > > it does have to be able to *read* the file-system upon which the booting > > > kernel/image, or chain-load it from things like Windows or OS2. > > > > > > Personally, I use GRUB only because it is more reliable for remote > > > machines, compared to LILO. > > > > A piece of software that forgives operator error, should not be deemed more > > reliable than one that doesn't. > > Nope, we are talking about NOT operator error, but DISTRO PROVIDER > ERROR. Specifically RedHat Enterprise Linux v3 update 9 and v4 update 5. > > These machines had been upgraded since forever. Reboots are always > fraught with problems when using LILO. Even when properly setup, there > is a good chance that LILO will not properly detect the right setup. > > We are talking machines with 30+ disks and 2-5 drive controllers, about > 8 kernels (smp and up and revisions if problems occur with the new > kernel) installed at any one time. > > One feature GRUB has is command line booting, in other words, even *IF* > someone blows away the menu.lst, you can still boot the machine FROM the > GR